By on October 25, 2015

UAW Wages

11:59 p.m. Sunday.

That’s when the union said Saturday that their contract with General Motors will be terminated and they should be looking at a tentative deal outlining their labor conditions for the next four years.

The contract between the UAW and GM originally expired Sept. 14, but was extended as the UAW targeted Fiat Chrysler Automobiles to set the tone for the rest of the contract negotiations.

“We are working with them to address the issues and remain committed to obtaining an agreement that is good for employees and the business,” GM said.

While no strike has been threatened, workers at GM’s Fort Wayne, Indiana truck plant are ready to hit the picket line, said Brian Hartman, president of Fort Wayne’s UAW local.

The union represents 52,600 workers at GM, reported Automotive News.

Last week, the UAW announced GM would be the next target for negotiations, leaving Ford last.

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53 Comments on “UAW Sets Midnight Deadline for GM Tentative Deal...”


  • avatar
    Rday

    Watching GM and the UAW fight it out reminds me of world war 2 when the NAZIS under Hitler battled with the Soviet Union under Uncle Joe Stalin. I think most of the world hoped that these two criminal empires would drive each other to extinction. Nobody really cared then and i think that as far as the GM/ war goes, die hard members of these two criminal organizations will really be the only ones to care about the outcome now. In the end GM will cave and pass the added costs on to their customers, just like they have done for many generations. And this time the leader of one criminal gangs really doesn’t have any balls to begin with. Can a female grow balls??? Margaret Thatcher seemed to be able to. These thieves will continue to rip off their customers until americans finally wake up to the truth ….but that may take eons based upon the education the current generation is getting.

    • 0 avatar
      highdesertcat

      Rday, there won’t be a fight. GM will give the UAW everything they want, and then some.

      Ditto Ford.

      Precedence was set when Sergio caved.

      The US government bailed out GM and Chrysler to keep the UAW working and living the high-life. What choice does GM-management have in this matter? ZERO!

      And as long as people choose to buy UAW-made vehicles, they’ll have the privilege of paying more for for them to pay for those higher wages and increased benefits.

      • 0 avatar
        Altair7

        You’ve hit the nail on the head. The problem isn’t the UAW per se; it’s the ignorant consumers enabling them through willfully purchasing (largely inferior) UAW-assembled vehicles.

        It’s much like the situation with the current president. As deeply satisfying as it would be to see Something Very Heavy squash Obama (and Hillary, and Sanders…) the productive masses wouldn’t notice any real change without also dealing with the millions of idiots that vote for them in the first place. They are the real problem.

        • 0 avatar
          highdesertcat

          Altair7, I’m a registered Independent, with equal disdain for both American political parties.

          But you have to keep in mind that the majority rules in America. IOW, America always gets exactly what it deserves, because we vote for it.

          What is bad for hardworking individuals like me who had to work for everything they have, is nirvana for others.

          And Jonathan Gruber, renowned economist, has identified Americans as being stupid. He continues to be proven right.

        • 0 avatar
          Xeranar

          Wooooo! Eliminatist politics check list:

          1.) Hates democracy (Check)

          2.) Doesn’t understand basic economics (Check)

          3.) Thinks all people are stupid for buying something he doesn’t like (Check)

          Always fun to read these comments….You would really fit in well in an authoritarian government. A truly young burgeoning Idi Amin…

      • 0 avatar
        ect

        Husband of wife’s cousin is a GM retiree, spent his career in labour relations (Canada and US). His take on GM’s negotiations with UAW and CAW (now Unifor)is

        “They tell us what they want. We jump up and down and tell them this is impossible, they can’t have it. Then we cave and give it to them.”

  • avatar
    CincyDavid

    Good grief, institutional extortion via the UAW. Instead of a man acting like an adult, and getting education or some new skill in order to make more money, these folks hold the employer hostage and demand more money. It’s really no different than welfare recipients always holding their collective hands out, because they feel entitled.

    I can’t imagine the mind-numbing boredom of working in any sort of assembly plant. I refuse to see why a guy sticking a piece of trim on a minivan, 50 times an hour, is worth more than minimum wage. This is just a variation on McDonald’s workers demanding $15 an hour. Flip the burger, or stick that one piece on the vehicle…same damn thing.

  • avatar
    wmba

    And the union-bashing-fest at TTAC continues apace. Squawk, squawk.

    After years of never reading a new take on the subject in the comments here, I am subjected to new generations of nitwits spouting the same old tired lines.

    Is there a factory where these simpletons are mass-trained and sent out to annoy the world?

    How about some reasoned thoughts? You know, ones not already trotted out in 1878 and polished with loving care ever since?

  • avatar
    CincyDavid

    Someone is bitter…perhaps you could explain to me how a high school dropout doing a simple repetitive assembly operation all day long is more valuable than a burger flipper…how tough can it be to install a wheel cover, 50x an hour?

    I might argue that the guy handling my food is worth more to me than a small cog in a big factory putting one part on a vehicle.

    And, just for the record, ad hominem attacks are a sure sign that the one making the attack has no argument in favor of their point.

    • 0 avatar
      Pch101

      “Someone is bitter”

      Oh, the irony.

      “ad hominem attacks are a sure sign that the one making the attack has no argument in favor of their point.”

      More irony. You aren’t smart enough to figure out that dismissing workers whom you dislike as childish extortionists who didn’t finish high school is an example of ad hominem.

      • 0 avatar
        ect

        Wow, your hypocrisy knows no bounds. You behave like Donald Trump, offering gratuitous insults to anyone who disagrees with you, then you have the nerve to call someone else out for engaging in much less flagrant behaviour.

        As one example, you posted 5 comments to Thomas Kreutzer’s latest article, all of them containing ad hominem attacks.

        Heal thyself first, then you’ll have the right to criticize others.

    • 0 avatar

      “perhaps you could explain to me how a high school dropout doing a simple repetitive assembly operation all day long is more valuable than a burger flipper”

      You could say the same about movie stars and athletes. Value is determined when trade takes place. Obviously, car companies are willing to pay more for labor (unionized in the case of the Big 3, non union in the case of most foreign owned and operated plants) than restauranteurs are willing to pay for burger flippers. The mere fact that entities are willing to pay more for industrial labor than for fast food workers makes industrial laborers more valuable, these days.

      Frankly, I respect both burger flippers and autoworkers. The kids ambitious enough to get a job at a fast food place are the kids who will get ahead in life.

      While I have my differences with the Wagner Act that heavily tilted things in favor of organized labor, and think that public employees have no right to unionize because of goverments’ monopolies and the threat of blackmailing the public, based on freedom of association and contract rights, I don’t have anything against the theory of private sector labor unions. Companies manage to do well with them, and companies manage to do well without them.

      Undoubtedly in the past, there were elements of the UAW contract, things like job banks and inefficient contract mandated work rules, that were insane from a business management standpoint and things like that contributed to the domestic industry’s decline. At the same time, though, ultimately the responsibility for efficiently running your plants and building good product comes down on the management side of things.

      Compared to the SEIU, the UAW are angels.

      • 0 avatar
        Xeranar

        Every time I read a post from Ronnie I keep picturing the freshman who read too much rand and makes some grandstanding remarks about the market while ignoring the mounting empirical data that undermines his whole position.

        In this rare case, I am going to straddle the line and agree with both of you in a technical sense. There is no reason to pay anybody anything since money is a concept we agree to and trade is more affected by marketization than actual intrinsic value. The factory worker isn’t worth ‘more’ or ‘less’ than a fast food worker, their pay is completely disconnected with their societal impact. Instead it is based on arbitrary and archaic perceptions. Because the Wagner Act benefits industrialized workers disproportionately is what drives up their overall value compared to fast food workers. It’s the same reason why Europeans and Australians are paid a better wage than we are in many situations: We simply demonized many more positions than they have and weakened the labor movement so that the only jobs of value are in union blue collar sectors and white collar positions.

        • 0 avatar
          TW5

          You’re trying to shoehorn the labor market into a quaint labor relations agenda.

          1. Regulatory burden on American laborers is high
          2. Public benefits for American laborers are basically $0

          American unions earn higher wages because they successfully fired 50% of the workforce and replaced them with machines, which increased the productivity of the laborers who remained. Labor relations policy and public sentiment are mainly irrelevant.

          Europeans and Australians have many public benefits for the middle-class, which increase demand for labor throughout the economy. The people who supposedly care about US labor spend everything we have on bloated entitlements for well-to-do seniors and dysfunctional poverty entitlements. They support these programs to avoid admitting that they were wrong when they dreamed up this dystopian Animal Farm.

          Eisenhower told Republicans to tear down the military industrial complex. They did. Now we’re all sitting around waiting on some lowly Ass to denounce the Great Society, but all we get are baseless promises that profligate spending will work if we make the problem much bigger.

          This is why the US labor market has been mediocre for the last 30 years.

          • 0 avatar
            Xeranar

            The problem with your argument is no empirical data supports it. It’s a complete pie-in-the-sky theory with absolutely zero to support it from anybody with a genuine research capacity.

            1.) Regulatory conditions in the US are moderate to low compared to most of the first world. Only when you add in the 2nd and third world do we appear in the top-third (as every first world state does). In fact, we’re one of the lowest cost-of-entry for businesses in the world because we have very few barriers to people opening up their own businesses with very little in the way of legal fees and regulatory controls. Only when you reach medium business status (over 1000 employees) that those regulatory actions come into play and they’re still less than in most of the western world.

            2.) The concept of ‘public benefits’ is complex and certainly isn’t zero since everybody who works and some who cannot will receive social security. The issue then is Taft-Hartley or ‘right-to-work’ which weakened organized labor and made taking a blue collar job less desirable than taking a white collar one. Not that blue collar jobs ever actually outnumbered white collar ones when you exclude agriculture. Since we’ve moved off the farm more people have been clerks than machinists and it has remained that way but those clerks have tended to side with more conservative factions because they were ‘at-will’ workers even after the Wagner Act which made them less inclined to support the concepts overall.

            Calling social security, medicaid/care, and the meager offerings bloated is just farcical. Never mind that we never dismantled ANY element of the MIC and to the tune of $671 billion we’re spending just to maintain not including non-budgetary allowances that get passed intermittently. I’m not sure where you’re getting your theories from but you should run far far away from whoever is telling you this because they’re dead wrong.

        • 0 avatar

          I’ve never been particularly fond of Ayn Rand, though she makes some good points. She didn’t lead a particularly exemplary personal life.

          I’d call myself a Hayekian more than anything else. The knowledge problem sums up a lot of the left’s hubris.

          “The factory worker isn’t worth ‘more’ or ‘less’ than a fast food worker, their pay is completely disconnected with their societal impact. Instead it is based on arbitrary and archaic perceptions. ”

          One would assume the same factors apply to the faculty of universities. Their pay is completely disconnected from their societal worth and based on arbitrary and archaic perceptions.

          Tax funded Marxists with sinecures, thinking they’re revolutionaries while they live in some of the most conforming subcultures on the planet.

  • avatar
    mikey

    How tough can it be , Cincy ? Back in the 80’s , GM would hire 100 people to cover, 50 openings. Lots and lots of guys left “white collar” jobs for the big bucks on the assembly lines. Some couldn’t get through the first shift. Others lasted a day or two. I’ve personally witnessed grown men , reduced to tears . 50 percent couldn’t make it through the 90 day probation period.

    Oh …..I’ve seen so many with your attitude . The first time , the Foreman , or the Group leader tells them ” to move thier a$$, a little quicker ” they going crying to thier …..momma.

    • 0 avatar
      28-Cars-Later

      GM (in the US) now will pull a certain ratio for a plant requisition and that ratio is dwindled by the assessment process (typically its 10 to 1). Now there is a pre-interview, a written test, a drug test, a mock test with the equipment, and a formal interview. I’m honestly not sure how many are left at the final step to choose from but if I had to guess two or three.

  • avatar
    CincyDavid

    Fair enough, some auto workers have graduated from high school. What is the average education level attained by UAW workers? I may not be too far off the mark. Not much point in going to grad school to work in an auto plant…

    So, let’s try this again, why is an assembly line worker worth more than a fast food worker? The fast food worker can affect my health in all sorts of bad ways, almost immediately. If the wheelcover falls off the minivan, so what?

    In attacking me, you are ducking a very simple question. I am not insulting the other posters, calling them nitwits, I am posing a simple direct question that none of the UAW apologists care to address.

    • 0 avatar
      28-Cars-Later

      I can’t answer the question but to get into a GM plant today, you have to be referred by an existing UAW member in a specific plant and your info goes into a database. When a plant needs to hire it will pull X people from the referral pool based on a ratio determined by the plant, in a process called literally called “the lottery”. Then the assessment process begins to find the best candidates of the selected pool. Typically lottery “winners” are employed in crappier jobs elsewhere and vary in age and believe me come from all sorts of backgrounds. Some of those selected will not answer their given contact information or turn down the chance to be assessed for whatever reason and the assessors move on in the pool.

      • 0 avatar
        highdesertcat

        So it is not “what you know.” It’s “who you know.”

        Hence, another brown-noser gets hired, and another good candidate bites the dust.

        • 0 avatar
          28-Cars-Later

          Correct and the process AFAIK was developed with or by UAW. Oh and its not “brown nosers” its the best candidates of anyone friendly with or juiced into UAW in a given plant’s region. Kinda like Cosa Nostra in a way, you literally get “vouched for” in order to be put in the pool so to speak, and they still only take the top 10-20% based on a battery of tests and the size of the req.

          I have done work on the ATS system which is how I know all this.

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            “which is how I know all this.”

            Your cred was never in doubt with me.

            In fact, I usually accept a person’s comment as rendered in good faith, until they prove themselves otherwise (like several other whack-job trolls, who shall remain nameless, have done on this board).

    • 0 avatar

      “Again, why is an assembly line worker worth more than a fast food worker?”

      Because that’s how much companies are willing to pay. Why is an unproven first round draft pick in the NFL worth $20 million a year?

      Stuff, including labor, just like your collectible on eBay, is worth what folks are willing to pay for it.

      I recommend Madsen Pirie’s videos on value and price.

      To one person, it’s scrap steel, aluminum and plastic. To someone else, it’s a restorable classic.

  • avatar
    RideHeight

    That photo of Williams you keep using because it looks loud-mouth thuggish…

    I’m seeing a tubby W on a rant. Especially the eyes and nose.

    Huh? Yeah?

  • avatar
    mikey

    If the wheel cover falls off, so what .? ….What if the wheel fell of at 70 mph ? ….Think that May have an effect on your health ?

  • avatar
    CincyDavid

    I am looking for educational data as it pertains to UAW autoworkers…all I can find so far is diabetes rates double the national average and 58% of those polled are either active smokers, or former smokers.

    Mikey, just because a job is horrible and former white collar workers got the heck out after a day or two doesn’t make it worth more than minimum wage…it means they were smart enough, and had enough other options to bail. That’s my whole point…there are other options for all of these folks.

    I have worked in commission-based sales for nearly 30 years. Either I perform or I don’t eat. Very simple, and it motivates me to get out of bed in the morning and scrounge up sales. I don’t run to my momma, I keep beating the bushes and make my own luck. And I can go to lunch whenever I like…don’t have to wait for the whistle to blow or a bell to ring to tell me I can eat. I outgrew that when I was in high school. Some people need more structure in their lives, and that’s fine, but what I still don’t see the value proposition with autoworkers. The golden age of high-paying manufacturing jobs is over.

    • 0 avatar
      highdesertcat

      “I still don’t see the value proposition with autoworkers. The golden age of high-paying manufacturing jobs is over.”

      I’m a proponent of more robotics, automation, less human assembly-intervention. Sure, we need SOME humans to interact with the automation and robotics, but let’s keep the human element at the absolute minimum.

      There’s no drama with robotics and automation. There’s always drama with humans.

    • 0 avatar
      el scotto

      C’mon man; you can tell us you’re really Herb Tarlek

  • avatar
    mikey

    HDC …… If a robot blows a hydraulic line, you looking at stopped assembly line. The trades will get on it , pretty fast. Sometimes, though $hit happens , could be 45 mins, maybe more.

    If a worker drops dead ( I’ve seen it twice) …..within 5 mins , were up and running.

    • 0 avatar
      highdesertcat

      Hey, Mikey. Good to see you’re still around.

      A guy I have known since forever built his career and life’s work around CAD/CAM/CAE and automation for industry, to include auto, food and medical.

      Some of the old stuff he initially worked on, designed and created, did use hydraulics way back when. But these days it’s mostly aircraft-grade electric motors and electronics, for more precision.

      Hydraulics generally have too much slop in them to do exacting work like spot and seam welds, positioning and micro-alignment, cutting, boring, milling, bending.

      • 0 avatar

        Back in the 1980s they used stepper motors, now they use servo motors that have even finer control.

        You still need a skilled operator to run CAM equipment, someone who knows something about materials and machining. It’s still a bit of an art as well as a science.

        I do commercial embroidery, with a four-head machine. The companies that make and finance embroidery machines make it sound like you just have to press a couple of buttons and you can make money. So many things can and do go wrong that you still need a machine operator who is skilled enough to recognize when there’s a problem and stop the machine.

        • 0 avatar
          highdesertcat

          Ditto with the robotic looms, weavers, silk-screeners, canners, bottlers and the like.

          I always view with amazement how the donut-making machine at Krispy Kreme makes all those donuts, while I’m merrily munching.

          And I also remember how my mom would painstakingly embroider her projects or knit her own lace. These days my wife buys it by the yard, already made, and dirt cheap.

          There is usually an embroidery machine, run by a vendor, located at every Base, Post, Navy or Marine Corps Exchange where you can have whatever you want embroidered on whatever piece of clothing, from baseball caps to name tags to patches, etc. My wife and I had our Traveling Elks windbreakers done that way, while we waited.

          Amazing stuff! Great time to be alive.

        • 0 avatar
          28-Cars-Later

          “I do commercial embroidery, with a four-head machine.”

          Ronnie’s uniforms and more?

  • avatar
    mikey

    Oh …..I’m still here HDC ! ……I’m more of a lurker , these days, but I do read most of the comments. I’ve been out of the plant for nearly 7 years now.

    I’m sure that the automation of today, is far more advanced , than it was in my day. However I think I’m confident in saying , that if was possible to fully “automate ” an assembly plant., somebody would be doing it.

    • 0 avatar
      highdesertcat

      Mikey, like I said earlier, there is always SOME human intervention required. But I’m all for keeping the human element to the absolute bare minimum.

      Congrats on still being alive 7 years after having retired! So many people I have known never made it past the 3-5 year point, after retiring. Sometime destressing can have its own unintended consequences.

      My visits to the boards is sparse these days as well. Not exactly lurking, but only visit when there is absolutely nothing else to do.

      Too bad about the Blue Jays. I was rooting for Tulowitzki. Met him and others in the Spring of 2014 in Phoenix/Tempe when we attended Rockies MLB Spring Training. He’s just an ordinary, every day kinda guy who loves to play baseball.

      • 0 avatar
        mikey

        Yeah….HDC…The Jays gave us a great year. Without Tulo , or Price we wouldn’t have got past the Yankees. Maybe next year eh ?

        • 0 avatar
          highdesertcat

          Yup, there’s always next year.

          We had hoped to go to Florida next Spring for Yankees Spring Training, but I think that’s shot all to hell now that my youngest sister sold her properties there and moved to the outskirts of Tel Aviv to be with her husband (and his adult children).

          Such is life. Those (who can) are seeking nirvana elsewhere.

          My other sister, formerly of Seattle, has moved to Vancouver, BC, earlier this year, to be with her husband who unherited his parents’ house, and she hasn’t been back to the states in a coon’s age.

  • avatar
    Altair7

    NASA demonstrated close to 60 years ago that, with enough repetitive training and appropriate reinforcement (both positive and negative), chimpanzees could be adapted to perform complex tasks onboard a Mercury space capsule.

    The so-called “skilled workers” of the UAW are not as far removed from this scenario as they would like everyone to believe.

    • 0 avatar
      scwmcan

      And just what type of “skilled” work do you do that can’t be out sourced or automated? Have you even worked in a factory environment to pass judgment on those who work there. In our plant 90% of the new hires and quite a few of the older worker ( with about 30 years in) have college and/or university degrees. Perhaps some factory workers are more educated than you think and would rather be working making a decent wage even if not in their field , rather than making less money in their field ( and with even less security than they cut in manufacturing). Who are you to pass judgment on people just trying to earn a living the best they can. Why so much hate for what are mostly decent hard working people?
      I can agree that the UAW went too far in the past, but most if not all of the stupid rules are gone ( job banks and very restrictive job duties for example).. And don’t forget that there are indeed skilled trades that are part of the Union as well.

  • avatar
    mikey

    Chimpanzees …….? Nice …real classy . ..On that happy note, I’m outa here.

    • 0 avatar
      Altair7

      I’m sure you’re a perfectly fine individual, mikey, but you and your union ilk really need to abandon the illusion that your job skills are particularly special in any way. It all comes down to training, and (as you know) lots of people across the globe are willing and able to do the same stuff, better, and for less.

      • 0 avatar
        28-Cars-Later

        I’m curious to see what will happen when Tier I is finally retired. I don’t think it will go away completely but I don’t think UAW will have the clout it has (or thinks it has) now.

      • 0 avatar
        RideHeight

        “you and your union ilk”

        If only Mikey had known that taking the best job he could find to support his brand new family and which *happened* to be unionized would all these years later earn him the scorn of an anonymous internet tyke… I’m sure he’d have chosen a career flipping burgers.

        Or pushing poutine?

        • 0 avatar
          ect

          +1, RideHeight.

          …and I’m a management guy!

          • 0 avatar
            RideHeight

            ect,
            Absolutely the only difference between Mikey and myself is I never had kids. I could therefore afford the money, time and utter life disruption necessary to finish a grad degree and find other employment after *my* rustbelt industry was allowed to die.

            I’m now paying-off that bootstrapping with heart pills, a CPAP and seeing my chest-zipper every time I shower. Hence I become easily unraveled when I hear glib pontification from advantaged young weenies about the simian worthlessness of “union ilk” and how easily they could repurpose themselves if only they tried.

      • 0 avatar
        scwmcan

        So tell me how is what you do special in any way, and not have lots of people across the globe willing and able to do the same stuff, better, and for less ( hint I doubt there is any profession where there are not people across the globe who can do it better, and cheaper than in the developed world). I think you may have a very inflated opinion about your worth, I know my worth, I know I can be replaced at any time ( and have been in the past in my chosen field of electronics, which is why I am currently working in a GM factory, I have no illusion that if we are uncompetitive that the company will not close us down). No matter what you do you are not irreplaceable, something to remember.

        • 0 avatar
          el scotto

          Yeah, but there’s not a left door assembly cottage in Burkina Faso. Car plants are large and labor goes to them. Seems to me your value was worthless in your chosen field of electronics and that’s how you ended up in a GM factory. Instead trying to increase your precious “worth”; you’d rather write diatribes against any and all. Why do I think your contempt for your fellow workers in returned in kind? Have they messed with your lunchbox yet?

          • 0 avatar
            RideHeight

            “Yeah, but there’s not a left door assembly cottage in Burkina Faso.”

            Not because Ann Dunham didn’t try!

          • 0 avatar
            scwmcan

            Excuse me but I was not the one who started making disparaging remarks about people, and for that matter how is stating that there are you few jobs that cannot be outsourced or be done cheaper by someone else ( the exact same wording used by the comment I was relying to) me ranting ? As for contempt I believe the OP I was replying to with his chimpanzee comment was showing a lot more contempt than anything I stated. I have nothing but respect for hard working people in any field, why not try showing the same ? As you don’t know what the job market is like in my area, why don’t you keep your assumption about my work ethic and respect for fellow employees for yourself. I am a hard working employee, who is just trying to make the best living he can, but you won’t believe hat because I now work at a Union assembly plant, By the way this is my first Union job ever and I am not 100% enamored with the union way, and I don’t believe everything the union or the company tells us ( the truth is usually in the middle somewhere).
            In any case I don’t normally write replys to posts on these topics but Altair7’s comments were really out there and I felt need to be addressed. Sorry if my views don’t agree with yours but there are two sides to everything and I can see now that there are very few people here who are interested in hearing more than their own.

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