By on October 13, 2015

 

garbage. shutterstock user Kzenon

Stefan writes:

Dear Sajeev,

I am the last person who would want to be even peripherally involved in you losing your job or impeding that great Lincoln rebuild. I am a loyal reader of TTAC and “slavishly” read your column.

My Subie is just touching 120,000 miles. It has been a really great, reliable ride and I fortunately have a good dealer and private mechanic for the routine issues that pop up.

I want to keep the car as long as possible. I do oil changes and the roughly 60,000 mile recommended scheduled service on time. The engine sounds good, has good (for a Subie) pick-up, averages 20 to 23 miles per gallon, and still has a tight body. I anticipate the need for new shocks at some point soon and a muffler/cat replacement.

I’ve read horror stories on Subaru engine issues and internet researching has not been definitive. Can you elaborate? I know you’ve done this many times before. What ought my ownership strategy be at this juncture? What might I expect in term of my auto transmission reliability?

I am not fond of the totally boring exchangeability of current grill “styling”, the blunt front ends dictated by European regs, the insane complications in radio usage, ridiculous, distracting computerization of the simplest driving acts with endemically poor quality et al. Thank God I’ve got my 1967 MGB with all it’s British “eccentricities” to keep me in touch with what driving is all about.

Your obvious question is why the Subie is automatic. The simple answer is I buy off lease or used.

Sajeev answers:

Stefan, sorry to throw you under the bus instead of sending you a clarification request via email

 

The problem is GIGO, and it’s not just a programming nerd problem. Making blanket generalizations on Subies (or anything else) are effective only to a point. Since you have a well-maintained Subie and are interested in continuing upkeep, know one thing:

You must always provide the year, model and (if applicable) the engine option of your Subaru if you wish to get a relevant answer from your research.

I can Internet Research up and down the litany of problems with Subaru engines (head gaskets, piston slap, etc.), but it’s meaningless as the manufacturer fixes problems as running changes occur and recalls/TSBs come into play. There’s plenty of info about each motor if you plug in the character code into Google or the big name forums.

Without it? The armchair analyst or helpful concerned citizen cannot assist with any degree of relevancy. Go ahead and fix the exhaust if you have seen the problem (on a lift) for yourself. Get new shocks if the ride has deteriorated. (It has.) Don’t worry about the engine until fuel economy and power drop off significantly, or you hear anything else bad. Ditto the transmission, as 120,000 miles for a fluid servicing is a crap shoot as to the helpful/hurtful nature regarding life expectancy.

My advice is to do whatever your mechanics recommend whenever they put their trained eyes on the problem, as you trust them. And we’ll assume they won’t destroy a great working relationship just to upsell you on your next visit.

Because that could be your last visit, and neither party wants that.

[Image: Shutterstock user Kzenon]

Send your queries to [email protected]com. Spare no details and ask for a speedy resolution if you’re in a hurry…but be realistic, and use your make/model specific forums instead of TTAC for more timely advice.

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81 Comments on “Piston Slap: Garbage In, Garbage Out!...”


  • avatar
    RHD

    For a second I thought that picture was a Volkswagen TDI, just sitting there idling.
    As for the Subaru, continue with the good maintenance, and keep the receipts in a folder for whenever you decide to sell it. The next owner will be very appreciative.

  • avatar
    gtemnykh

    Agreed with Sajeev, not enough info.

    But here are the basics:

    90-94 Legacy: 2.2L SOHC engine, rock solid
    95-99 non-outback Legacy, Impreza Outback Sport: 2.2L SOHC engine, rock solid
    95-99 Outback: 2.5L DOHC: common HG failure, internal leaks into combustion chamber at relatively low mileage (60-80k)
    Same applies to gen 1 foresters
    00-04 Outback/Legacy/Forester: 2.5L SOHC, external leaks initially, can be managed for a while by keeping an eye on coolant and oil levels. Eventually leads to total HG failure but typically at higher mileages than before
    05-09 Outback/legacy/impreza/forester: same as above more or less
    FB25 (2013+ Forester, others?) too early to tell, but there is hope they finally beat the HG issue. Unfortunately they have acquired an oil burning issue.

    A GOOD shop that knows that they’re doing with checking for warped heads, and using good Fel-Pro gaskets can repair one of the older cars, that should be good for the rest of the life of the vehicle. As long as it is budgeted for and monitored, the headgasket thing isn’t quite as scary as it is sometimes made out to be.

    • 0 avatar
      MBella

      Agreed. As long as the rest of the car is good, I would think it would be worth it to keep it. I would buy a new 06-07 Impreza today if I could. I really miss the one I had, and the 2011 I had afterwards was a terrible car in comparison. (Although we don’t know the year/ model of the car in question.)

    • 0 avatar
      CoreyDL

      When I look at a “chart” of information like you present, which doesn’t even cover CV joint or rust (especially) problems…

      I realize Subaru isn’t a great car maker. Not yet anyway. They just have the image of one because of their loyal ownership base.

      By the way, for those of you not in the Midwest, 90-99 model Subarus mostly rusted away here MANY years ago.

      • 0 avatar
        gtemnykh

        Again, not HUGE problems per se, okay the subframe rust is something to worry about.

        Subaru isn’t Honda/Toyota level of overall low running costs, but to anyone with a decent indie mechanic or with a DIY inclination, they’re not bad at all within the overall used-car-scape. Having said that, no I wouldn’t buy a used one myself unless I got it in rust-free condition and had it gone through thoroughly to check for the state of the head gasket and a clean bill of health in terms of any stored CEL codes.

        I blame myself in part for perpetuating the “Subaru reliability sucks” meme on TTAC, I change my position to “it’s complicated.”

        Like MBella, I LOVE the 02-07 generation of Imprezas, my family test drove a stick shift Impreza Outback Sport back in 2006 and really liked it. My brother’s friend ran a 02′ WRX wagon up to 210k with poor maintenance habits and lots of abuse and the car ate it right up.

        • 0 avatar
          CoreyDL

          I like the styling and trim and general build quality, especially around the early 00’s, which I feel were the zenith of their “independent, so we’re different” design.

          But other than that, why spend all the care and such needing an indie mechanic to manage costs… on a Japanese appliance?

          They aren’t luxurious or filled with build quality any more, and other companies have their equal on styling (since Subaru has played down to the norm) and offer AWD as well.

          • 0 avatar
            gtemnykh

            Subaru was just about the only player in the “affordable AWD wagon” scene for quite some time, aside from the AWD Matrix/Vibe and some smaller players like the Suzuki Aerio, and both of those were a tad smaller with worse visibility to boot. And it was the ONLY player in the “japanese midsize wagon” scene for the entire late 90s onwards (EDIT: Suzuki Esteem Wagon is another one). Oh and the whole option of a stick shift in all of their cars is a plus to the enthusiast set.

            Now, one could argue that the current Outback is so heavy and tall that calling it simply a wagon is a stretch, but I’d argue the general appeal is still there: affordably priced, roomy with good visibility, car-like handling and fuel economy. People will put up with some reliability issues for that very tempting combination of characteristics, I know I’m considering it.

          • 0 avatar
            MBella

            In the context of an economic box, my 07 Impreza was pretty well equipped compared to a base Civic or Corolla. It had 16″ alloy wheels that were low profile enough to be sporty, but had enough sidewall to be able to drive in Michigan. 4 wheel discs. It shared it’s suspension and brakes with a base WRX. The only thing you really got with the WRX was a turbo. The car was really fun. Mine was a lease so I can’t comment on how it was long term, but my friends made it to 100k miles with just routine maintenance that I performed for him. My 2011 blew the AC compressor last year, and needed a thermostat in 27k miles. All with a boaty suspension and ugly steel wheels with wheel covers.

      • 0 avatar
        jacob_coulter

        Subaru’s reliability is greatly overstated. I say this as a former owner who didn’t drink the Kool-Aid. They’re better than many of the European makes during the same time period in terms of reliability, but that’s not saying much.

        I happen to think they’re just overrated in general.

    • 0 avatar
      Quentin

      A friend that I ride MTBs with just replaced the HG on his FB25 equipped Outback. 120k miles (2010 model, IIRC). Anecdote, yes, but I doubt there are a ton of FB engines out there with that kind of mileage, so it could be a sign of things to come.

      • 0 avatar
        gtemnykh

        Not so fast there, those still had the “Phase 2” EJ25. To my knowledge, the 2013 was the first year that Subarus received the chain driven FB25.

        • 0 avatar
          Quentin

          Looks like that was still an EJ. I guess I was thinking of the CVT being new for that Outback model. The FB appeared in the Forester for MY11 and the Legacy for MY12 according to Wiki.

          • 0 avatar
            gtemnykh

            Right you are. Yeah it’s a little odd that the new engine did not coincide with the new bodies (that gen forester and Outback started in 2010).

    • 0 avatar
      APaGttH

      We just had to put $3,200 into the DSW 06 Subbie Forrester (NA 2.5). A few months earlier we put in close to $800 and about a year before that about $800. It is pushing 100K miles and the head gasket monster has yet to appear.

      • 0 avatar
        CoreyDL

        Good lord!

        $4800 in three years? I’d have dumped it already.

      • 0 avatar
        gtemnykh

        I’m curious, how is that 3200 and 800 broken down by specific repair?

        • 0 avatar
          APaGttH

          The $3200:

          * Rack and pinion system replacement – it failed catastrophically – DSW was driving and lost power steering. I drove it to the dealer myself, reminded me vaguely of cars I drove in the early 80s – it was surprisingly serviceable without the boost – this was almost half the repair costs – I shopped around and it was a fair price – we could have pulled a junkyard one but this is DSW we’re talking about

          * Transmission cooler lines leaking

          * Water pump and timing belt (due at 105K miles anyway so did this proactively)

          * Service tranny and differentials

          * Flush brakes and radiator

          I feel like I’m leaving something out at this point.

          ======================================

          The $800 before that was:

          * New battery

          * Fuel filter

          * Front brakes and rotors

          * Rear drums full replacement, the seals were all blown out and it was hemorrhaging brake fluid. Honestly, I don’t understand how the power brakes were still working. I had driven the car earlier and felt the pedal was soft. It was cheaper to just replace the whole darn thing than rebuild. Never seen that in a car before

          ======================================

          The $800 before that was flush the steering rack (more than a year before the failure, so I don’t feel they are connected) and a nail in a tire turned into a full set of Michelins because the tire was irreparable (I suspected, the location was about as far out to the edge and not be in the sidewall as you could get). We would have been in for tires in about 15K more miles.

          We have agreed to keep the car through to 140K miles – which is about 5 years of ownership given the amount of driving she does. At 140K miles we’re looking at swapping the bodily fluids again and moving closer to the head gasket monster showing its ugly head.

          We have four cars, and only one small car payment and we like it that way.

          My Saturn Relay is looking at close to $1K in repairs next. $600 for a leaking oil pan (you have to remove the whole feckin’ motor to fix it – thanks GM), about $125 or $150 for a quality battery, and around $300 for a weeping tranny cooling line. The oil leak has reached a state where I can’t ignore it – they’ll start a fracking operation in my driveway next year if I don’t address it. The tranny leak is a I might as well just do it. Painful to drop $1K in a vehicle worth maybe $3K on a good day. The Saturn has 160K miles – our goal is 200K. In those 40K miles after these repairs in theory it should only need tires and front brakes.

          Still cheaper than buying a replacement in both cases. The Subbie has good value in particular here in the PNW.

          One other thing, the DSW did some custom body work hitting a pole right before our wedding, and the paint is scratched down to bare metal. Yup, need to get that addressed also.

          *sigh*

          • 0 avatar
            dal20402

            Shouldn’t you spend the $1000 on explosives to blow the Relay up? Maybe bad financial planning but a heck of a lot more satisfying.

          • 0 avatar
            JohnTaurus_3.0_AX4N

            Id dump the Relay asap. I would not put a dime into it. You could go upside down big time if/WHEN something big goes. Its not worth it. If you need a family hauler, pick something that is not a minivan. Most all of them are problematic, but GM may be the worst!

        • 0 avatar
          gtemnykh

          Yeah wow 3200 seems a bit steep, but for a new OEM rack and all associated tie rod ends and whatnot plus labor, and the not-so-cheap 105k servicing that’s not out of the ballpark of what’s to be expected. That sort of double whammy of big service+big repair is never pleasant. I wonder what went wrong with the rack that it happened so suddenly, a high pressure line burst? I probably would have tried to just replace the line and refill the system as a cheapo DIY fix, but I’m not implying that’s a reasonable route for most people. This is where a good indie mechanic can really save your bacon. I’m just guessing here, but I’d estimate the bill to be less than half that amount somewhere like my brother’s shop. And he’d try to rebuild the rack with new seals rather than springing for the new OE part for one, and his rate for t-belts and pumps on Subies is laughably cheap compared to the dealer’s book time. Same goes for diff servicing.

    • 0 avatar
      dal20402

      Turbo engines are a bit different. EJ255/257 do not typically have head gasket failures (at least not at higher rates than anything else), but if built before ’09 they are extremely sensitive to oil quality. Changing the oil at any more than the prescribed 3750 miles (or even less in severe duty) may result in oil starvation to the turbo and a blown turbo.

      Turbo cars also have even more predictable CV joint issues because the exhaust manifolds, right next to the joints, get even hotter.

      Subarus in general are durable (HG issue aside) but have a few known consistent problems so are not the cheapest cars to maintain. People put up with it because they like the packaging, the low price, and the very good AWD systems (older 90/10 automatic systems excepted).

  • avatar
    RideHeight

    How ’bout that nice Chevy pickup back there?
    I’d rather drive that.

  • avatar
    DeadWeight

    For any gen Subaru:

    1) Go on way-off-beaten-path adventure with girlfriend & have careless moments in the rain, near rocky landscapes, on grasslands, or in mud.

    2) Forget something of sentimental value at one of those places, and return to find it later.

    3) Plaster Phish and/or Bernie Sanders and/or Fair Trade bumper stickers on rear of vehicle.

    4) Have one to two dogs ride with you in your vehicle at least on the weekends, letting them stick their heads out the window.

    5) Get real at the Whole Foods and/or Trader Joe’s.

    6) Lovingly pass off keys to newly-driver-licensed daughter in umpteen years, while thinking out loud that you’re comforted to know that Subarus are reliable, crashworthy and have all wheel drive.

    • 0 avatar
      Nick_515

      Now that’s funny, DW.

    • 0 avatar
      VW16v

      You basically described the Subaru marketing campaign. Here in Utah the Subaru driver crosses all demographics. But, I did see a bumper sticker over the weekend on the back of a 10 year old Outback. “Subaru, bringing out my inner lesbian”.

    • 0 avatar
      gtemnykh

      Haha nailed it! It’s funny because I’m totally an outdoorsy kind of guy and between my gf and my we have 2 larger dogs that we like to take places. Except in my case I have an old 4Runner that the dogs stick their heads out the lowering rear tailgate window, and I’m way too pragmatic and cheap to shop at Whole Foods or Trader Joes. I also have an “Izhevsk” decal on my truck, an esoteric reference that only other Soviet firearm enthusiasts will hopefully catch onto and not the Bernie sort.

      I am seriously looking at an Outback to supplant but not replace the 4Runner.

      • 0 avatar
        EAF

        Lol @ DW…

        Gtem, have you test driven the latest 4Runner? It is at the top of my list of trucks I wish I could afford. :-(

        • 0 avatar
          gtemnykh

          Yep the new truck would have me covered pretty nicely for both commuting and offroad duty. Fuel economy is “good enough,” capability is where it needs to be, as is utility. Oh and that glorious lowering rear window.

          However, I decided after my latest offroad misadventures that I’d have a hard time taking something I just dropped $37k on through some terrain that would quite rapidly depreciate my vehicle’s value, if you know what I mean. My old 4Runner is both much less valuable to begin with, and on top of that it is a bit less susceptible to damage to begin with. The black-plastic-bottomed chromed steel bumper has been scraped up on some tough approaches and barely has a mark to show for it. I think a new “Trail” 4Runner with that pseudo metal silver plastic piece would be much worse for the wear in the same situation. I’m also quite frankly just plain attached to my old one. It’s in great shape and has almost criminally low miles. It’s been gone through with a fine toothed comb and gets maintained by the book, and perhaps most importantly has ZERO rust (a rarity here). Why would I let a gem like this go?

          That’s where I got the idea to keep the 4Runner for weekend outings with the canoe/dogs/camping/offroading, but swap my commuter Civic for a new Outback, which would be nice for winter road trips back to upstate NY to see the folks, and would excel at dog hauling duties as well. All while actually being better than the 4Runner in slick highway conditions and getting better fuel economy.

          • 0 avatar
            CoreyDL

            Speaking of trucks, I gotta question you might know the answer to.

            On the Grand Wagoneer, I find pics with the tailgate open sometimes, and the window is never visible.

            Did it drop down into the tail gate, and then you opened it? There are never any visible shocks or hinges above for it to lift or anything.

            It would seem awfully inconvenient loading groceries or packages in rain or other inclement weather when you had to open a window to lower the tailgate (which you’d have to get in the back to do first).

          • 0 avatar
            gtemnykh

            It’s probably a lowering rear window, and a pickup-style rear tailgate that drops down and that you can sit on.

          • 0 avatar
            CoreyDL

            You’d think there’d be a current or former GW owner round here, but I guess not.

            It all sounds so inconvenient with no remote for the window function, especially.

          • 0 avatar
            Truckducken

            Here I am! Yes, it lowers into the tailgate. I called it ‘the air conditioner’.

          • 0 avatar
            CoreyDL

            Why thank you.

            I hope you don’t live somewhere that it happens to snow on a day you have to load cargo or groceries.

            Get in
            Lower window
            Exit
            Lower tailgate

            But by then your cart has escaped into the side of the Avalon next door, and your children are quite cold and crying.

  • avatar
    Lorenzo

    My sister just replaced her 2002 Forester last year, after about 160,000 miles. She broke down the cost of repairs by mileage, and the last 40k, your future mileage, were the most expensive. She replaced the cat around 130k, and that began a series of sensor replacements that got really expensive, along with other electrical components.

    While some of the problems were due to the particular year and age, others were just plain worn out parts that had to be replaced. You likely have a newer model Forester than a 2002, but the mileage, with its potential for a cascade of parts replacement, is still there.

    • 0 avatar
      gtemnykh

      The cat failure can oftentimes be traced back to a leaking headgasket that is introducing coolant into the exhaust in small amounts, but not quite failing. This will also foul O2 sensors and throw them out of wack. Most often, a person will drive around, ignoring a check engine light because they’er worried it will cost too much to fix whatever issue is the culprit. They let it go and the issue will cause even more damage to other components and sensors, at which time the bill becomes truly eye watering.

      • 0 avatar
        CoreyDL

        They need to introduce a new light, which is below CEL or flashing CEL. People will address other issues but not the CEL, because it’s intimidating.

        I give to you SPL, the Slight Problem Light.

        • 0 avatar
          gtemnykh

          Well frankly, to most people in states without inspections, the CEL is simply ignored as long as the car still runs fine, until one day it doesn’t.

          My gf’s uncle in Ohio is a prime example. O2 sensors failed years ago on his Tacoma, he was told by some idiot at at shop that it was much too expensive to get the OE replacement so he’s been driving around in what mechanics call “Open loop” mode with the truck getting terrible mileage and he just shrugs it off. A competent mechanic would have charged him about $80 per O2 sensor and another $150 or so to replace them. Just plain silly. At this point, the cat is probably ruined by all of the excess fuel it’s been cooking in for the past 5 years to ever have a cheap fix.

          • 0 avatar
            CoreyDL

            Seems like at least in the Audis I owned, and perhaps in the I30 (can’t recall exactly) that when the CEL went on, they defaulted to like a safe mode, and caused them to run rough. That drove me nuts.

            Sounds like he went to CARX or something for their professional assessment! I can’t believe the cat hasn’t just broken apart and clogged up from being fuel soaked for so long.

            Talk about a used Tacoma to avoid.

          • 0 avatar
            EAF

            The cat could be the lesser of evils in his case, in my DSM for example, a failed primary oxygen sensor will inevitably lead to a ring washed engine. It runs THAT rich in open loop.

            Corey… probably your Audi, they absolutely love fail safe mode, especially if steptronic!

            P.S. Poor man’s M3!!!!!! :P

          • 0 avatar
            CoreyDL

            Lol. Uh huh.

            To clarify, it felt like a “fail safe” or default setting for idle/emissions only. The driving bit and power felt unaffected relatively speaking. Just the idle was rough and poor all the time.

  • avatar
    28-Cars-Later

    “Garbage in Garbage out”

    Well this is Providence, I just got back from the Garbage show in Las Vegas and IT WAS THE BEST F*CKING SHOW I HAVE EVER SEEN AND IT CHANGED MY LIFE FOREVER.

    • 0 avatar
      bball40dtw

      Forever?

      • 0 avatar
        28-Cars-Later

        Give me a few to explain.

      • 0 avatar
        28-Cars-Later

        I’ve never been to Las Vegas but when the tour was announced in August come Hell or high water I was going. I bought a ticket and a day later learned about the VIP and bought it as well. I was hesitant to book the flight because I was trying to get someone to go with me and could not. Then my friend Aaron mentioned his friend Dan (to whom I was already acquainted) was flying out to see the same show. I talked to Dan who explained he had a comped room at the Orleans on W Tropicana because he was a bit of a gambler and invited to me stay with him. So I booked the flight for Oct 10 on Southwest (I also drove a Ferrari Scuderia and a 911 but that’s another story).

        Dan was joined by his friend Mike who was staying elsewhere and we gambled a bit at the Orleans until I had to leave on the tram around 4:15 for the earlier starting VIP (ironic in that I was just in NEW Orleans). The tram takes you to Caesars and I walked down the strip to the Cosmopolitan. I got there in advance of course and while I had my ticket and VIP receipt, I lost the VIP instructions. My phone could retrieve email but it would not get emails from prior to Oct 7 for some reason so I called by best friend Anthony, who was still in Pittsburgh, and begged him to get to a PC and read the email instructions to me. He did and I was to meet the group at the box office on the other side of the crystal chandelier bar. I conversed with the other VIP people and found most of them were from around the West Coast and initially I was the only East Coast person. They took us up to the 4th floor and we wandered out on stage which was still being set up. We saw Shirley with her pink hair off to the right in the back and I almost busted a nut. Molly, who ran the VIP, came out and got us because we were not supposed to be out there yet. After making us wait in the hallway for a half hour we came back out on stage as the band sang “Stroke of Luck” for us followed by “I Think I’m Paranoid” and “When I Grow Up”. I think there were maybe twenty of us and one man who was probably 6’4 with pink dyed hair and pink suspenders was complemented by Shirley (turns out his name was Matt).

        The Q&A period started not long after and we made a half circle around the band. Next to me was a tall girl (6+, I am 5’9) who turned out to be a transgender girl and asked the first question [all close paraphrasing]: Every album has song about transgender people, why is that? Shirley answered: “I never 100% felt like I was a girl. There are parts of me that are but then I have bigger balls than most men. I always felt different.” Then Butch added: “We have a lot of friends who are transitioning. We very much appreciate our transgender fanbase”.

        Then it finally hit me:

        Twenty f*cking years of listening and the songs are about YOU and ME and any of US who felt DIFFERENT.

        They lined us up for the VIP photo with the band and I talked to Matt (the tall guy with pink hair) and his friend Dominique who formed the band Love Like Suicide in LA (https://www.facebook.com/LLSband). Evidently Dominique knew Garbage from a few years back and formed the band at Shirley’s encouragement. The time came for me to get my picture, Butch and Shirley shook my hands and I stood in the center for the photo. I went to walk away but stopped. I turned around and said to them: “I have to thank you for your music. This has been the most difficult year of my life and your music saved me. I lost my girlfriend Korrin to leukemia last December and it just destroyed me”. I swear to you this happened. They all looked sad and Duke just said “group hug” and Garbage f*cking hugged me for ten seconds. I almost cried. Then as I left Butch shook my hand again and said “We are very happy that you came” as I left. These people are legends and have influenced music for twenty years. Butch produced Nirvana, Smashing Pumpkins, and Foo Fighters before forming Garbage. They shook MY hand. They hugged ME. I am nobody and yet I am not. Sometimes in life you meet your heroes, realize they are just people and then wonder why you made them heroes. But then again sometimes you meet your heroes and you remember why you made them your heroes in the first place.

        The concert itself was EPIC as they did the whole first album, with B-sides, an encore of mostly Version 2.0 stuff and closed with “#1 Crush”. I was in the second row fist pounding most of the show. Changed my f*cking life. I was 15 again for a night. Most people go to Las Vegas to “sin”, I went and was HEALED.

        The Beatles were THE band of their time. Led Zeppelin of theirs and Michael Jackson of his.

        Garbage is THE band of OUR time.

        A STROKE OF LUCK OR A GIFT FROM GOD?
        THE HAND OF FATE OR DEVIL’S CLAWS?
        FROM BELOW OR SAINTS ABOVE?
        YOU CAME TO ME

        GARBAGE FOR THE REST OF MY F*CKING LIFE AND ON MY GRAVE PUT: NOT YOUR KIND OF PERSON.

        LOVE YOU BUTCH, SHIRLEY, STEVE, AND DUKE

    • 0 avatar
      CoreyDL

      Wasn’t Courtney Love a member of that, or something?

    • 0 avatar
      DeadWeight

      “Your only happy when it rains” in Vegas…the irony.

    • 0 avatar
      Quentin

      I always figured they would struggle to carry their record sound over to a live performance. Good to hear that they are good live. I’ll have to see when they are in town and maybe take the wifey out for a show.

      • 0 avatar
        28-Cars-Later

        …as the Pope of the Church of 3800 I COMPEL you to attend.

        • 0 avatar
          cbrworm

          I imagine that would be a pretty awesome show. All shows are better in Vegas as well (although I have seen some pretty good shows in LA)

          That’s cool that it gave you some relief. It is funny how sometimes you get ‘banged up side the head’ with something profound.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            Thanks, I agree. Sometimes I feel like my life is a movie and that was the end of an act.

          • 0 avatar
            DeadWeight

            I’m shocked it was your 1st time to Vegas, 28.

            I would have hooked you up with an bodacious room at either Palm, or better yet, off the strip, at GVR (where the rooms have to be outrageous since it’s off the strip).

            Hope you ate at Del Frisco’s on Paradise (their Blue Point oysters, stone crab legs, gulf shrimp – 3 to lbs – and New York Strip are out of this world).

          • 0 avatar
            bball40dtw

            Del Frisco’s is great. Last time I was there I had the bone in Ribeye…

          • 0 avatar
            DeadWeight

            I’m true blue loyal to it; never had anything less than an excellent meal there and the waiters are old school cool, too.

            Plus, it somehow managed to stave off the cheesy, carnival barker & celebrity chef vibe of the circus that surrounds it for all these years.

            They source their seafood and beef from arguably the two best suppliers in the nation, and know how to prepare the product.

          • 0 avatar
            bball40dtw

            It was definitely the best steak I’ve had in Vegas. Do you have a favorite steakhouse in NYC? Keens? Del Frisco? Peter Luger?

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            DW I’m not a gambler and I just never had any desire to go because I didn’t know what was out there. Now that I have a taste of it I want to go back again. I may be there in March for a bachelor party, I might have to take you up on that offer.

            Since I have a champagne taste but a beer budget not a whole lot of high rolling went on at restaurants. I did however shop Zegna at the Crystals while waiting for the Dream Racing driver to pick me up. That was my conspicuous consumption splurge.

            Aside from the Ferrari 430 and Porsche 911 I drove at the track, I was ferried around in an Escalade, a Ford Transit Connect Taxi, and a 740iL back to the airport. I saw alot of Hummer and XTS limousines floating around town too which surprised me.

          • 0 avatar
            bball40dtw

            Nothing says style like Transit Connect Taxi.

            March is a great time to good. If you can, make it the first week of the NCAA tournament. Even if you don’t usually gamble, put some money on some games, have some drinks, and watch the craziness in the sports book. It is worth whatever you throw down.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            I was actually warned to avoid early March because of the huge amount of people, but I personally don’t care although the date isn’t my call as I am not the best man. I hope it is early March because I want to go to Ireland the last week of March for my April birthday. This wedding is April 16th and then I might go away again after it.

          • 0 avatar
            DeadWeight

            Christos is the best steak I had in NYC, but I never ate at Peter Luger’s (don’t want to, but would try Wolfgang’s which was started by a former Luger’s waiter), and do want to try Keens one day.

            Christos is good because I like heavy char on outside and there aren’t any butter gimmicks.

          • 0 avatar
            bball40dtw

            I’m planning a bachelor party for November and I may just have to not tell him about anything and kidnap him. Every time I talk to him about it, the bride to be is on speaker phone with him. That’s some awful $hit. My wife told my best man not to let me die and gave him $500 for strippers or bail.

          • 0 avatar
            bball40dtw

            Ribeye don’t need butter gimmicks. Make it rare. Make it delicious.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            That’s a pretty standard best man request from what I understand.

  • avatar
    April S

    I miss my 1993 Loyale

  • avatar
    28-Cars-Later

    Sorry to hijack the thread Sajeev, but believe me it was fated by your choice of title.

  • avatar
    gottacook

    Slightly jarring combination of photo and text, there: “My Subie is just touching 120,000 miles” just under a photo showing Legacy wagons that couldn’t be any newer than 21 years old and are probably closer to 25. I do still see that generation in suburban DC (MD) but no more often than 4-5 times a year.

    The head gasket of our 1990 Legacy LS AWD wagon went in early 2003, and that car was replaced by a new ’03 Legacy SE wagon; the dealer discovered and replaced its bad gasket at no cost to me (car had exceeded 5 years but not yet 60K miles), and at 125K it’s running strong.

    We’ve had no problems with our Foresters (’06 stick 105K, ’07 auto 65K), although our neighbor had to replace a bad gasket in his ’03 Forester – there were said to be a number of mechanical changes between ’03-’05 and ’06-’08, and perhaps one of them led to improved gasket durability.

  • avatar
    Joe K

    2005 Outback Limited owner here. 2 years ago at 190,000 it blew the HG internally. The car is nice, black leather, auto, no rust, everything works and makes sense, so I put a rebuilt engine in it. I looked at new and I didnt like what I saw. Equivalent cars suv’s cuv’s hit the 30K range in price after taxes fees etc. I like my Outback for all the points the OP made. My only grumble is the stereo but I worked that out long ago. So I opted for a rebuilt engine and never looked back.

  • avatar
    Cabriolet

    A Subaru with 120,000 miles and no repairs. Run as fast as you can to the closest exit. Advice from a former and never to buy again Subaru owner.


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