By on December 20, 2016

TTAC regular David Holzman writes:

My brother and several of my friends are wondering what to do about their TDIs. There are probably hundreds of thousands more like them! Some issues with keeping them:

  1. Will they actually be forced to clean up the emissions? (I think this may depend on which state they’re in, but I’m not sure.)
  2. How much will the fix affect gas mileage and performance?
  3. Will the fix be a PITA after it’s installed? If so, how so?
  4. After all the above is considered, what’s the cost/benefit of keeping the TDI vs taking the money and getting a new car?
  5. Is there any reason not to simply wait and see how the fix works out and not rushing to take the buy out?

For my brother, sportiness is not a priority, but having a wagon is. As is reliability and having a very similar car so that his wife, who does not adapt easily to different cars and drives the TDI exclusively, will be happy. But I think VW has discontinued Jetta wagons, and the latest generation of Golf (which has a wagon) gets lousy marks for reliability from CR. In particular, they consider some fuel system problems to be “fairly serious.”

All the best,
David

Sajeev answers:

From what I’ve seen, VW’s giving above market value price, so making a lateral-ish move from an A3 TDI to something Germanically gutsy like a turbo Mini Cooper, or from a base Jetta TDI to a cleaner Toyota Prius or Nissan Leaf makes sense. But your questions point to those embracing the culture surrounding TDI ownership: no different from Panther Love, Corvette Fever, The Jeep Wave, Teslaratis, Ferraristias, etc.

And that’s the real shitter: will this scandal’s final act save or kill TDI Culture?

1) Yes, VW will attempt to clean up its act. Question is, will the government accept it? A rudimentary emissions-tuned ECU reflash is VW’s best hope, but integrating a complicated, expensive urea-injection system (like damn near every other non-cheating diesel) is likely better for the government. I guess the latter is more likely.

1.5) Another point to consider: will owners accept the clear (lower fuel economy/performance) downsides? And will the state demand proof of a retrofit to get next year’s vehicle registration?

2) Maybe this sheds light on the TDIs future, especially if that involves urea injection.

3) Read the owner’s manual on a late-model diesel from Mercedes or BMW. And no, you can’t just take a piss in the urea tank. That ain’t gonna fly, son. 

4) Cost/benefit analysis are personal, as people often lie about their automotive needs, wants and (most importantly) their personal finances. If you can’t afford the car you really want (or don’t want another one) let VW install the fix. Deal with the repercussions: that’s how it shoulda come from the factory!

5) Money is the cause of, and the solution to, damn near all of life’s problems. There are countless reasons why someone would take the money and run. Those that stick around are definitely deep in what’s left of TDI culture. For now.

Send your queries to [email protected]com. Spare no details and ask for a speedy resolution if you’re in a hurry…but be realistic, and use your make/model specific forums instead of TTAC for more timely advice.

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53 Comments on “Piston Slap: Is VW’s Emissions Scandal Saving or Killing TDI Culture?...”


  • avatar
    kvndoom

    Only a fool would keep their car. If they pass up the money, then down the road when the DO want another car, their TDI will be near worthless. No dealership in its right mind would take one for a trade in, unless it was lowballed to hell.

    Take a profit now, or an even bigger loss on an already depreciating asset later. Duh.

    • 0 avatar
      blaster668

      I’m not so sure about this…. There are reports on the TDI Club forum that most dealers have deposits and waiting list on all of the remaining “new” tdi cars still in inventory that can’t be sold. Many of these reports are that the sale price will be full MSRP assuming that a fix ever occurs.

    • 0 avatar
      dougjp

      Agreed, take the money and run, either elsewhere or if gambling that VW/Audi service won’t be overwhelmed, to a gas powered VW/Audi. The fan club numbers are hugely diminished and used will have little value. Supply and demand alone will shift massively from demand (now, as no new are available for sale) to supply. People lining up to buy new are financially crazy, IMO.

      What I can’t figure out is why there are no detailed answers to most of the excellent questions above? Its been a long time in this mess, I find the lack of dependable detail to be “eerie”.

      • 0 avatar
        SCE to AUX

        I still maintain that there will be no fix.

        VW doesn’t need more bad press from road tests that disparage the performance of the fixed cars. And they don’t want a fixed fleet that they have to maintain forever.

        All their talk today is about an electric future.

        • 0 avatar
          JimZ

          there will be no fix for the SCR-less EA189 cars. It’s clear you can’t meet NOx limits without it, so those cars are up a creek.

          the later ones (EA288) with SCR *should* be fixable, rumor is the reduction catalyst may need to be changed for a higher capacity one, and you’ll go through DEF a good bit faster.

          • 0 avatar
            blaster668

            They don’t have to meet NOx limits, the settlement documents state that a fix does not need to bring the vehicles into complete compliance, but rather to a relaxed set of standards.

          • 0 avatar
            JimZ

            Without SCR I don’t think they can even get close. I doubt VW wants to spend thousands per car in the hopes they get “chabuduo.”

          • 0 avatar
            dieseldub

            Blaster is 100% correct.

            VW has worked with EPA/CARB to come up with a realistic, workable compromise solution–part of the reason why they also are paying as large a fine as they are is because the government is accepting the fact that the yet-to-be-approved fix will not make the cars as clean as what they were originally certified to, but will be “clean enough” considering time and complexity as the major hurdles to do a full SCR retrofit.

            So, basically the fix has already been agreed upon and likely submitted to EPA/CARB, it just has to finish undergoing testing for effectiveness and longevity/aging.

            For reference, cars were originally certified to 0.07 g/mi NOx. They will be allowed somewhere closer to 0.3 g/mi NOx with an approved fix. If they fail to meet that target, the government will simply levy further fines with a formula specified in the agreement.

            So, effectively this means that a fix will almost certainly be approved no matter what, and even if it fails to live up to the relaxed targets completely, the government will simply slap them with a few more fines and move on.

    • 0 avatar
      Trane_Engineer

      I turn my 2012 in to VW on January 18th for $13,875. About what I expected to get in 4-1/2 year after buying it (resale was tops in the industry in 2011). I have numerous real problems and complaints which include EGR, Air Bag and Electrical problems for over a year. The manual shift linkage is junk and the engine oil leaks keep me from parking it in my driveway.

      My next car will be an American gas burning V8 and RWD.

    • 0 avatar
      andrewprice

      I have a low mileage 2011 Golf TDI I bought used that I am scheduled to sell back on January 10th, and my mom has a low mileage 2013 Jetta Sportwagen TDI she bought new that she is selling back the same day; so I know a bit about this situation. Doom is right, the money is to good to pass up. I got a good deal on my vehicle when I bought it two years ago so I am making around 5 grand on it, my mom is losing about 1.5 grand for 3 years of ownership. Given how VW’s depreciate… you can’t turn that down. However that doesn’t mean TDI culture is dead.

      Now my Mom has sworn off TDIs, and so we are currently searching for her a replacement. I bought a 2014 Audi A6 3.0 TDI Prestige as a replacement for my Golf while they were hugely devalued do to the diesel scandal, and so far no regrets. Now there are still some unknowns here with the 3.0 diesel settlement, but I paid $30,000 with taxes and fees included for a 2.5 year old car that had a nearly $70,000 MSRP when it was new. It gets around 40-45 MPG on the interstate, does 0-60 in 5.5 seconds, and has AWD, cooled/heated seats, tons of leather, most of the newest safety/convenience features, and in general is a really nice reliable vehicle. Even in the city I am only losing maybe 2-3 mpg to go to the 6 cylinder from my 2.0L Golf in part because I use the adaptive cruise control so much. Plus I might get money back as part of the 3.0L settlement.

      Now I am betting that VW/Audi will be able to fix these vehicles more easily because they have an integrated urea system, but only time will tell on that. Regardless, to me that is a good deal and I am not sure I would sell it back even if a buyback was offered. However, I will admit it is a bit of a gamble so I will just have to wait and see how that pans out for me.

  • avatar
    tommytipover

    Go on, take the money and run… to your Honda dealer.

  • avatar
    rpn453

    Moving from a Jetta TDI to a Leaf makes sense? The only Jetta TDI owner I currently know is a sales rep who does a lot of traveling. He bought it for the range and high speed fuel economy. The others I’ve met lived in more rural areas and, again, purchased them for highway driving.

    I just don’t see them as being a city-oriented vehicle like the Leaf. Up here in the frozen north, you typically don’t buy something that takes a long time to warm up for exclusively short-trip driving. I suppose it might be different down there.

    • 0 avatar
      OldManPants

      “Up here in the frozen north”

      Where men are spherical and steel snaps, Leafs have long been raked and burned by now. Yah Baybee!

    • 0 avatar

      The Prius was mentioned in the sentence immediately before the leaf. And I am pretty sure there are TDIs in my city that never leave it, and rarely leave “coveted” inner loop of my city.

    • 0 avatar
      SCE to AUX

      “…you typically don’t buy something that takes a long time to warm up”

      That would be the TDI. My Leaf warmed up more quickly than any car I’ve ever owned, due to its 2-quart heater loop that heated up like a coffee maker. My friend’s TDI took 20 minutes to throw lukewarm heat in the winter.

      You’d buy the Leaf for the torque, but not for distance.

    • 0 avatar
      blaster668

      This is a very common misconception about diesel owners. While they initially may have bought a diesel for the great fuel economy, they end up getting totally hooked by the tremendous torque, long range between fill ups, and exceptionally smooth effortless highway manners. Not many of them will be replaced by pure electrics or hybrids.

      • 0 avatar
        JimZ

        “tremendous torque” and “VW TDI” don’t belong in the same sentence. *Every* 2.0 DI turbo gas engine has way more torque than the VW 2.0 TDI.

        Every.
        Single.
        One.

        • 0 avatar
          heavy handle

          People’s impression of torque is funny. They think that any engine that won’t rev must have lots of torque. Not true, lots of engines that can’t rev also don’t have much torque.

          That’s true of almost every small-car diesel, but also of “legendary torque monsters” like the old Jeep 4.0 (220 ft/lb).
          The SBC only cranked-out as much torque as any of the now-ubiquitous 2.0T engines that every maker stuffs in their compacts.

          • 0 avatar
            ajla

            “the now-ubiquitous 2.0T engines that every maker stuffs in their compacts.”

            Which compact car comes with a “ubiquitous” 2.0T? To get a 2.0T in a compact you have to either step up to a sport version (GTI, Focus ST) or a premium brand (BMW, Buick).

          • 0 avatar
            heavy handle

            ajla,

            My point was that almost every major group offers a 2.0T: all the Europeans (BMW, JLR, Merc, Volvo, VW), the Big 3 if you include FCA’s upcoming “Hurricane” motor, Kia/Hyundai. The Japanese brands have all offered 2.0T engines at some point because it was favored by their road tax system.

            I can’t think of any other engine type that is built by everyone. It’s a useful benchmark because it’s non-partisan, so to speak. You can be a fan of any brand and still relate to the driving characteristics of a 2.0T.

            You are correct that it is an up-sell in cheaper cars.

        • 0 avatar
          notapreppie

          This isn’t true.

          There are variants of each that make more or less depending on application.

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Volkswagen_Group_diesel_engines#2.0_R4_16v_TDI_CR_81-176kW

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Volkswagen_Group_petrol_engines#2.0_R4_16v_TSI.2FTFSI_.28EA888.29

        • 0 avatar
          MikeyToot

          Nope. A current GTI Golf has a claimed 260 lbs-ft. My wife’s current 2016 2.0 TDI Tiguan 184 PS has a claimed 280 lbs-ft. Her previous 2103 177 PS Tiguan had 320 lbs-ft courtesy of the Viezu Tuning Box which I fitted to it.

  • avatar
    geozinger

    If they’re really brave, they could try a Chevy Cruze diesel. I can’t remember if they were going to offer the new hatch with the diesel, but I would think that it would be a good “wagen” substitute.

  • avatar
    sirwired

    I suppose you can hold onto your ride for dear life, hoping they can find an acceptable fix, but I think at this point, the likelihood that it’ll still be a car you actually want to drive after the fix is applied is pretty low, and that’s if a fix is even possible. (One iteration of the cheat involved activating the cheat less often, because it was burning out important parts of the emissions system.)

    It’s hard to predict if an individual state would allow you to keep driving the car if you took the cash and simply refused to install the fix. California? Probably not. Random Flyover State With No Emissions laws? Likely no problem.

    • 0 avatar
      blaster668

      First, from the court settlement, owners do not get any cash until the fix is installed or the car is bought back. Second, the settlement states that any state receiving money from the settlement cannot ban these cars from being registered and driven, even if the owner chooses to not accept the fix and keeps driving it as is.

  • avatar
    Maymar

    It strikes me as an odd sticking point that the problem with the Golf wagon isn’t that it’s a VW, but that it’s not a Jetta, considering we’re presumably talking about a MkVI Jetta wagon, which already was a Golf in other markets. Not to say that he should take a chance on an MkVII just because, but it’s not a fundamentally massive change.

    Otherwise, how long does VW give owners to make up their minds? Long enough to hold out for the Kia Niro? Otherwise, it’s a shame his wife probably wouldn’t care for the Prius V’s quirks (Toyota will probably do alright with those, given the disappointing lack of affordable wagon options).

    • 0 avatar
      notapreppie

      And it’s all the same basic platform anyway. I’d bet the parts commonality between a Jetta Wagon and a Golf Wagon is like the DNA commonality between a human and a dog (which is roughly 84%).

      If something is statistically unreliable with a Jetta, it’s going to be the same for a similarly equipped Golf.

    • 0 avatar
      la834

      Correct – the Jetta wagon has always been just a US and Canada thing (and some years, not even Canada). For our market they slapped on a Jetta front clip and called what elsewhere is a Golf Variant a Jetta SportWagen (just plain Jetta Wagon in Canada). When the Mk5 Golf/Rabbit and Jetta were introduced the Jetta sedan was a Golf with a trunk instead of a hatchback, along with more rear overhang and a lower roofline (which many VW fans and owners seem unaware of). A strong case could be made that the Mk5 wagon was more aptly called a Jetta rather than Golf given the wagon shared the Jetta sedan’s lower roofline and long rear overhang. But when the Jetta Mk6 arrived it didn’t share a body or interior with the Golf for the first time in its history. The Jetta wagon received a mid-cycle facelift that grafted the Mk6 Golf’s front sheetmetal, dashboard, and console onto the otherwise unchanged Mk5 wagon body so it was basically a Golf Mk6 from the front doors forward, a Golf Mk5 rearward of that. At this point, with the Jetta sedan a completely different car, it no longer made sense to call the wagon a Jetta, so with the Mk7 the wagon became a Golf worldwide.

  • avatar
    Acd

    Currently there is no fix and VW actually made them cheat more with a software update because they were getting high warranty claims on emission related parts. That leads me to believe that there is not going to be a fix.

    There will probably be a small market for TDI’s down the road–look at the prices of 200,000 mile late 1990’s/early 2000’s VW Diesels–but if a TDI owner is planning on keeping it they had better figure that they will not be able to resell the car.

    • 0 avatar
      SCE to AUX

      They’ll be able to sell the car to other True Believers, if the car can still be titled.

    • 0 avatar
      la834

      It will be interesting to see if TDI loyalists buy the new Chevy and Mazda diesels, or if their loyalty to VAG is higher than their loyalty to diesel. I think both of those would have sold better if they didn’t arrive a bit too late to take advantage of the TDI buybacks.

  • avatar
    SCE to AUX

    Fixing the TDIs could kill TDI culture. Killing them off might preserve its mystique.

    The same is true with assassinated Presidents, bands that perish in plane crashes, affinity to neo-Nazi principles, and 1963 Corvettes.

    • 0 avatar
      JimZ

      honestly, in my (limited) experience, “TDI Culture” was a handful of wannabe geeks who strutted around as “tech savvy” because they believed they were the only people in the world who knew about this “diesel” thing.

  • avatar
    heavy handle

    The logical thing to do is a trade for a new VW, provided you can get favorable terms. The 1.8 TSI is probably just as gutless and economical as a TDI, but with added reliability.

    Logic has nothing to do with car purchases. A (hopefully) small group will choose to keep their gross polluters, out of a misplaced loyalty to a company and technology that never cared about them. Others will let rancor guide them into the arms of Hyundai/Honda/Chevy/whatever, and spend years driving boring cars, just to prove a point.

    • 0 avatar
      notwhoithink

      “The logical thing to do is a trade for a new VW, provided you can get favorable terms. The 1.8 TSI is probably just as gutless and economical as a TDI, but with added reliability.”

      The fuel economy isn’t quite a good, and the lack of torque makes the 1.8 feel underpowered by comparison. That being said, my replacement car has the 2.0 Ecoboost and after driving it for a few weeks I pulled the TDI out of mothballs yesterday to keep it in running shape. I didn’t find the torque in the TDI that impressive anymore.

    • 0 avatar

      I’m guessing you have yet to actually drive a VW with the 1.8 TSI engine, because gutless it is not. My Golf loves to cruise between 80 and 90 mph on the highway, it builds speed quickly, and in the mountains it barely breaks a sweat.

      • 0 avatar
        heavy handle

        It’s not gutless, but it can be driven that way if you ignore the top half of the power band. My point being that it’s a good replacement for a TDI. The gas mileage will be very similar if you don’t rev it.

  • avatar
    87 Morgan

    I struggle see a scenario, even in the so called fly over states with no emissions, where you will be able to register the car without proof the fix was done.

    If it were me, I would drop the car off at my local VW dealer and take the cash. Again, if it were me, I would assume the fix will be awful. Why? Well, VW has known about this issue for awhile so they have to have known the ‘fix’ will materially alter the driving/ownership experience. Otherwise, logically, they would have made the corrective course of action a long time ago as a matter of model year improvements/changes. They cheated, because they know the cars suck after the ‘fix’ is installed.

    Whether that ‘suck’ is decreased fuel economy, decreased reliability, more maintenance or yes please all of the above only the brave (or fool) who chooses to keep their beloved TDI will know.

    TO THE EDITORS OF THIS SITE: I would really enjoy a long term test/follow up set of articles/interviews if you could convince one of the TDI aficionados of this site to keep their car and provide us with a no bullshit review of the consequences.

    • 0 avatar
      blaster668

      How in the world do you struggle to see this scenario? It is right in the settlement that states will not be able to restrict these vehicles from being driven if they accepted money from the settlement, at least 45 states have.

      4.2.9 Registration of 2.0 Liter Subject Vehicles. Each Certification Form must state, for the benefit of the parties to the Consent Decree (including the Settling Defendants) and the owners from time-to-time of 2.0 Liter Subject Vehicles, that the Certifying Entity:
      (a) Shall not deny registration to any Subject Vehicle based solely on:
      i. The presence of a defeat device or AECD covered by the resolution of claims in the Consent Decree
      ; or
      ii. Emissions resulting from such a defeat device or AECD; or
      iii. The availability of an Approved Emissions Modification or the Buyback,
      Lease Termination, and Owner/Lessee Payment Program.

  • avatar
    indi500fan

    Well….

    If you love your TDI
    plan to drive half million miles
    live in a non-emissions test state
    do your own repairs
    and VW sets up the world’s largest one-make salvage yard with the return cars

    it becomes a solid proposition

    (this sounds like the NFL playoff scenario for the Buffalo Bills)

  • avatar
    30-mile fetch

    If you’re married to the feel and familiarity of your TDI Jetta wagon, get a Golf wagon and use your disgruntled customer status to leverage an extended warranty. It’s not like the 2.0TDI was likely going to be cheap and easy to get 200K out of anyway.

    Unfortunately, that Golf wagon will not have the resale demand and cult status of the TDI. A wagon with Germanic driving feel, 40+mpg highway, and strong resale doesn’t exist. If you can compromise on body form you can get 2 out of 3, but if traditional low-slung ‘wagon’ is a prerequisite you’re in trouble.

    C-Max? Outback 3.6? Prius V? Good luck, this could be a hard choice with compromises.

  • avatar
    Detroit-Iron

    If #1 was even remotely possible it would have been the solution. TDIs are deader than Oldsmobile. VW’s only hope is re-branding so hard that the current owners trade in their Aleros for Acadias.

  • avatar
    MrF

    Points that seem to be lost in this discussion: 1) TDIs are grossly polluting messes 2) VW has behaved VERY badly (unless lying, cheating, and cover-ups don’t count). Why would anyone want to drive the former or support the latter? (BTW, I actually had some interest in buying a TDI, before VW earned its place in Hell.)

    • 0 avatar
      redmondjp

      An excess of NOx makes it a grossly polluting mess??? Overstate things much?

      If you want to see a grossly polluting mess, look at any school bus or transit bus, spewing visible (and much more unhealthy) soot left and right.

      • 0 avatar
        MrF

        VW NOx is 5 to 35 times the standard that other diesel makers meet. Even if that falls short of a grossly polluting mess, it is unfortunate. VW’s overall approach may have contributed to this perception. Agreed re: buses, etc.

  • avatar
    Scoutdude

    I suspect your fixed car will loose about 10% in MPG and the DEF consumption to quadruple if you’ve got a DEF car, Non DEF cars could see a 15-20% reduction in mpg. Both scenarios are if they get close to meeting actual emissions standards.

    The thing is cult members will eventually pay top dollar for those cars that still exist and have not been fixed. So keep the car if you really really like it you’ll end up OK in the long run as it will double in value once the vast majority have been crushed.

  • avatar
    dieseldub

    Well, just a reading through the court agreement will spell out the most likely scenario.

    The Gen 1 engines, the only ones without the Selective catalytic reduction (SCR) and Adblue/Diesel Exhaust Fluid (DEF), the government has already laid out what hardware changes will need to be made, specifically a Lean NOx trap meeting a specific standard from BASF and an update to the motorized flap in the exhaust, which can be used to increase exhaust back pressure under certain load conditions to increase EGR flow rates (exhaust gas recirculation–the primary method for a few decades now to reduce NOx emissions–the only form of emissions in violation on these diesels).

    The biggest thing you’ll see in the court documents (Department of Justice Consent Decree Appendix B, if you’re curious to look it up yourself) is that in order to expedite a fix that is “good enough” in a reasonable time frame without being too difficult, costly and complex to implement, they have revised targets for NOx that are significantly relaxed compared to what they were originally certified to.

    For reference, in 2006 before the Tier 2 Bin 5 regs were required, a VW TDI diesel was allowed to legally emit 0.7 g/mi of NOx. The tier 2 bin 5 regs in which the 2009 and newer commonrails were originally certified to have an NOx limit of only 0.07 g/mi. MASSIVE reduction in NOx output in a very short period of time.

    The consent decree will allow any proposed fix for the Gen 1 cars (again, the only generation lacking SCR and DEF) to emit a max of around 0.3 g/mi. So, not as clean as they were certified to, but significantly cleaner than what they were emitting.

    With that in mind, all 2012 and newer Passats already had SCR/DEF. All 2015 “gen 3” engines also already had SCR/DEF among other trick engineering to increase efficiency.

    Will this whole thing kill “TDI Culture”? Eventually, yes. But not for the reasons mentioned, mostly because VW’s head CEO in Germany came out and said weeks ago that their diesels will NOT come back to the U.S.. Originally we were expecting a return of some TDI models by the 2018 model year, maybe just not in as many models as we did have, but we were expecting a return. Now it’s sounding like we won’t get them at all.

    So, that’ll return us back to the supply and demand question. With so many that will potentially be bought back and NOT returned to service, supply will at some point be short. The big question will be will demand still be there? There will always be some die-hard hold outs who refuse to drive anything else… Of course, they also tend to be cheap.

    My advice is, if you like the car, its size, features, the way it drives and the fuel economy it returns and you can’t find anything you feel offers a comparable complete package, hold onto it, because you won’t have the option of buying a new one to replace it in a couple years from the looks of it.

    The rumor that I have heard come down from those in the company is that the fix that has been in the works has actually been beneficial to fuel efficiency and has not hurt engine power… Make of that what you will. I’ll believe it when I see it.

    Also, when/if the emissions fix gets approved, VW has promised its dealers internally to put bought back cars up for an internal auction for dealers themselves to bid on, then they have to apply the fix to the car before reselling them for profit. The dealers also get to bill VW for the labor to apply the fix (and the parts are also not charged to the dealer–provided “free” from VW).

    VW does need to toss its dealers a bone here, as it has definitely hurt dealer sales, and even bigger still it has hurt their dealer’s service departments, bear in mind that dealer’s are independent businesses not owned by VW. This idea of an internal auction on bought back cars is their way of trying to help their dealers out and make it up to them.

    I used to work as a service technician at a VW dealer and still talk to some former co-workers and even on occasion my ex service manager. They will tell you that the service department has been hurt a lot by this scandal. Owners of affected diesels are not willing to put anymore money into service on a car that is “only going to be bought back.” So, anything the car needs, they’re declining to have the dealer perform, including oil changes.

    It’s a mess. Some of these bought back cars I’m hopeful will return back to use on the roads as I still feel there is a demand for them, but they will be our only option from VW as they’re not likely to return selling new TDIs in this market.

    • 0 avatar
      indi500fan

      Good post. Obviously the amount of misinformation on the internet about this subject is monumental. The part about current owners not spending money on maintenance is very relevant. Even with the “fix” these cars might not be good to go for long miles.

  • avatar
    el scotto

    Ain’t nothing a crew cab Duramax can’t fix or a crew cab Dodge or Nissan with a Cummins diesel. C’mon, you know you want one.

  • avatar
    brettc

    The smartest thing is to take the money and move on. You don’t want a “fixed” TDI for many reasons, reliability being the biggest one. Fuel economy and performance aren’t supposed to suffer much, but they will be affected (along with Adblue fluid consumption being higher).

    The Jetta wagon has always been a Golf wagon. It doesn’t take rocket appliances to figure that out so that shouldn’t be a stumbling block. If you want to stick with VW and live in a location that sees winter, consider the 4Motion Golf wagon S. Pretty good value for the money and it’s AWD.

  • avatar
    amca

    Visiting my Porsche dealer this last weekend, I noted he had a humber of diesels on his inventory list. He said he gets requests for them every day, and isn’t allowed to sell them.

    Me, I’ve got a ’14 A8 TDI. Love it. And they’d sell me another A8 TDI if they’d just bring their hot new euro-V8 turbo-super-charged car here.

    Alas, they’re chickens ready to blow me off. Time to buy a Cadillac, I think.

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  • Corey Lewis
  • Mark Baruth
  • Ronnie Schreiber