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Old 01-23-2014, 05:56 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Would like to see more comparisons, although I understand the challenges presented for that.





What I would REALLY like to see in these reviews is a bit more on the mechanical end. Nobody does that in the industry. What's basic maintenance take, how well-built are the suspension pieces, how is the body put together, how many belts/tensioners does the accessory drive use, how cheap are the electrical connections, are there cheap plastics in the cooling system that are going to crack in 50kmiles, lubrication lines running in hot areas, etc.



I recently took a look at a new Jeep Cherokee as a Liberty replacement. The inner fender well was made out of such cheap plastic I swear I could of poked my finger through it. I crawled underneath it, the suspension bits were stamped steel and seemed pretty thin. Everything wreaked of cheap, and this was a $37k Trail Hawk version. Yet, during the review on here, I saw NONE of that covered?





I'm not sure if it's just a lack of knowledge on the technical end, not wanting to get dirty crawling under a car, or not wanting to piss off the OEM's, but nobody ever really gets into the detail. Does nobody really care if a care is built like utter garbage as long as it drives nice and has good "steering feel"? Or do we just wait for a few years until the things start to fall apart on people and report back on that?





That's my only true criticism. Please take it constructively, you guys could really set yourself apart from the rest by doing far better thorough reviews.*
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Old 01-23-2014, 06:52 AM   #12 (permalink)
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This x10 ^^

on anything that tries to say offroad or otherwise is truck based.



Additionally Chevrolet SS review would be awesome.
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Old 01-23-2014, 07:48 AM   #13 (permalink)
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AMC_CJ said Would like to see more comparisons, although I understand the challenges presented for that. * * What I would REALLY like to see in these reviews is a bit more on the mechanical end. Nobody does that in the industry. What's basic maintenance take, how well-built are the suspension pieces, how is the body put together, how many belts/tensioners does the accessory drive use, how cheap are the electrical connections, are there cheap plastics in the cooling system that are going to crack in 50kmiles, lubrication lines running in hot areas, etc. * I recently took a look at a new Jeep Cherokee as a Liberty replacement. The inner fender well was made out of such cheap plastic I swear I could of poked my finger through it. I crawled underneath it, the suspension bits were stamped steel and seemed pretty thin. Everything wreaked of cheap, and this was a $37k Trail Hawk version. Yet, during the review on here, I saw NONE of that covered? * * I'm not sure if it's just a lack of knowledge on the technical end, not wanting to get dirty crawling under a car, or not wanting to piss off the OEM's, but nobody ever really gets into the detail. Does nobody really care if a care is built like utter garbage as long as it drives nice and has good "steering feel"? Or do we just wait for a few years until the things start to fall apart on people and report back on that? * * That's my only true criticism. Please take it constructively, you guys could really set yourself apart from the rest by doing far better thorough reviews.* Interesting. I don't have a garage. Perhaps a couple of my mechanic friends would be willing to donate some time on a lift and take a look with me (or ideally, someone with an engineering background).
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Old 01-23-2014, 08:31 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Don't need a engineer. They may make them, but mechanics are the ones that fix them. Doesn't mean there's always exceptions and exceptional people from any background, but I'd take the word over a good experienced technician over a engineer any day.



But about anybody with some car business should know what to look for. Like for instance, VW's. You know those cheap plastic pieces bolted to the engine are NOT going to last for the long haul. Most of it is pretty simple, so ask yourself these when looking over a car



1. What's it made out of?

2.How sturdy(thick) is it?

3.How is it put together? (Hardware, stainless steel bolts, plastic rivets, etc.)



For instance, the rear suspension on the new Cherokee;

1. Hollow stamp steal, corrosion prone.

2. Not very, good chance of rust eating through in several years.

3. Medium sized hardware, does not look corrosion resistant.
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Old 01-23-2014, 10:49 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Sam P said BMW 328d Touring with xDrive, if only to mess with the "Screw wagons, buy a crossover" groupthink that I sometimes see on TTAC. 3 series wagon is only available with the 2.0T gasoline engine.* It also forces you into AWD and the automatic transmission.* And it crests $50k with relative ease.* Basically, the people looking at wagons want a sedan that is a little more practical.* The people buying crossovers want an all weather capable, practical vehicle with good ground clearance and good visibility.* The cost and limited configurations on the 328i touring just push me toward a sedan rather than a crossover.* People that consider buying new wagons are just grossly outnumbered.* Economies of scale are in the favor of crossovers and those cheaper prices make them even more attractive when straight up compared to wagons.* You can get an X1 w/ AWD for $33k base.* The 328xi touring starts at $41k.* The vehicle size is almost identical except the X1 is 5" taller.*
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Old 01-23-2014, 12:53 PM   #16 (permalink)
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A few points:



- The 328d is available as a wagon in the US market.*Car and Driver just posted on their Twitter account that they're testing one as well. And it's on the BMW configurator.



http://www.thedieseldriver.com/2013/11/2014-bmw-328d-xdrive-sports-wagon-review-and-test-drive/

- The X1 is sized similarly to the E46 generation of BMW 3 Series, except in height. It's 175 inches long. The F30 3 series is more akin to an E34 or E39 5 Series, in both exterior and interior room.



I personally don't care for the X1 although BMW sells a ton of them in the PNW. It resembles a Forester with a few BMW styling cues. I know I'm in the minority but I'd gladly pay the 10k extra for the 328d.
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Old 01-23-2014, 02:26 PM   #17 (permalink)
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If they made a 6MT X1, it would be my DD. I quite like them, and can't justify the extra $10k just to have a wagon bodystyle.



In other news, we WILL have a manual diesel wagon test coming soon, and you cannot buy this car here. Though a variant of it is sold in North America.
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Old 01-24-2014, 02:40 AM   #18 (permalink)
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A few points: * - The 328d is available as a wagon in the US market.*Car and Driver just posted on their Twitter account that they're testing one as well. And it's on the BMW configurator. * http://www.thedieseldriver.com/2013/11/2014-bmw-328d-xdrive-sports-wagon-review-and-test-drive/ - The X1 is sized similarly to the E46 generation of BMW 3 Series, except in height. It's 175 inches long. The F30 3 series is more akin to an E34 or E39 5 Series, in both exterior and interior room. * I personally don't care for the X1 although BMW sells a ton of them in the PNW. It resembles a Forester with a few BMW styling cues. I know I'm in the minority but I'd gladly pay the 10k extra for the 328d. *



When did they sneak that in?* This is literally the first I've heard of a 328d wag.* Neat.*



I maintain that the price is still completely out of control.* $50k if the only option you add is red leather and the M sport package... for 180hp.* According to cars.com's comparison feature, the latest 3 series wagon and X1 are almost identical in all measurements.* You end up trading a little leg room for head room in the X1.
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Old 01-24-2014, 04:31 AM   #19 (permalink)
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2014 era BMW prices are horrific compared to the competition with a few exceptions (X1). For the price of a 328i sedan with a few options, one can pick up a Lexus IS350 with 60+ more horsepower and equal or better driving dynamics.
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Old 01-24-2014, 05:01 AM   #20 (permalink)
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2014 era BMW prices are horrific compared to the competition with a few exceptions (X1). For the price of a 328i sedan with a few options, one can pick up a Lexus IS350 with 60+ more horsepower and equal or better driving dynamics. *



That was the exact comparison I was thinking.* If an automatic is on the table and a sedan is palatable, the IS350 F sport is a screaming bargain.* You get all the sports goodies and enough of the gadgets (LED headlights, bluetooth audio streaming, proximity key/push button) in the basic F sport package.* It appears you have to get the nav on the 3 series for bluetooth audio streaming... something that comes standard on mainline compacts now. The crazy thing is I remember building a 325i touring, RWD, 6MT reasonably optioned for $39k back for MY06.* I love BMWs, but if I'm dropping $50k on the small engine version, being able to choose RWD and a 6MT would make it a lot more compelling.* I'm sure BMW has some spreadsheets somewhere that says that of the 100 people that would buy that configuration in the US, only 10 of them would actually spend the money.* Looking at used BMW wagons on autotrader confirms that they probably only sold a dozen or so RWD, MT wagons per year when they did offer it.*



/thread derailed
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