By on March 28, 2022

As the industry continues struggling with its planned swap to electric vehicles, we’ve seen plenty of framing suggesting dealer networks are only too happy to participate. But it’s usually juxtaposed with articles indicating that pushback exists, typically whenever the metaphorical rubber meets the road. This month provided several premium examples stemming from the National Automobile Dealers Association Expo (NADA Show 2022) held at the Las Vegas Convention Center.

Though the best had to be when several dealer groups piped up about how much it’s actually going to cost them to install some of the newer chargers some manufacturers believe should be mandatory if they’re intent on selling EVs. Some showrooms are finding out that not all buildings are wired for the high loads incurred by modern charging systems, requiring additional financial investments they hadn’t counted on. With automotive dealerships using product delays as leverage for unprecedented vehicle pricing, it’s nice to see them getting a taste of their own medicine. Or it would be if the costs for updating facilities weren’t guaranteed to be reflected on future window stickers. 

A recent report from Automotive News highlighted some of the NADA exchanges, offering up a few anecdotes where dealers were blindsided by how much it actually costs to set up some of their stores. In one case, the Orlando, Florida-based Starling Automotive Group said electricians doubled their estimate when they wanted to install Level 3 chargers yielding 150 to 350kW of draw. Having already reported on the exchange from the NADA event, Automotive News conducted a recent follow-up interview to see how things were progressing.

The dealer group realized that installing the latest chargers was about to become substantially more complicated after the utility company explained its buildings weren’t rated for the kind of power usage required. Starling said the company stated that they would need to upgrade building services before any chargers could even be installed, effectively doubling the original estimate to a new total ballparking at $220,000.

That’s in addition to any downtime that occurs during the installation process, which could take well over a year to complete. But the General Motors focused Starling Automotive was hardly the only example of a dealer group realizing EVs came with some hidden costs. Automotive News also caught up with A Hyundai dealer in New Jersey that had encountered similar problems:

“Rockland Electric Co. said, ‘We’ve got to get you more power’ because what we had coming in from the street wasn’t enough,” he said at the NADA Show.

DeSilva’s son, Mike, is co-owner and dealer manager at Liberty Hyundai. In a phone interview, he said the dealership is “on the hook” to pay for a new, more powerful power line from the street to the dealership.

Mike DeSilva said the utility company is still “months away” from the actual installation. He’s hoping the dealership qualifies for some local incentive money for installing EV chargers, but there’s no guarantee.

He said the dealership decided to go ahead and submit its application to get the chargers installed without waiting for the final word on incentives to avoid missing out on allocations of upcoming Hyundai EVs. DeSilva said they haven’t received an official estimate but have been told the service upgrade will be $50,000 to $100,000 in addition to the cost of the chargers and site work.

Similar to Starling, the Hyundai dealership is worried that the manufacturer might withhold product if it cannot support EVs as asked. Presently, this trend is limited to companies that have committed themselves the hardest to electrification. But the assumption is that it’ll gradually become commonplace as more EVs hit the road. One of the best ways to showcase how quickly your new battery-powered products can charge is by hooking them up to a fast charger and showing the customer, reducing fears about range anxiety and driving downtime that are normally associated with electric cars. Opening them to the public is also a sly way to convince people to frequent your lot, especially if the vehicle they’re driving didn’t originate from there.

Not all dealerships will be impacted equally. Stores that have upgraded their service centers within the last decade may already be set for a smoother Level 3 charger install. Others will have to bite the bullet and shell out some additional dough to ensure they’re within code. Though one wonders how this complication hadn’t occurred to anyone before electricians started showing up to lay the groundwork.

[Image: Michele Ursi/Shutterstock]

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90 Comments on “Dealers Annoyed With Price of EV Charger Installs...”


  • avatar
    FreedMike

    These guys are shamelessly marking up everything with four wheels right now.

    Deal with it, fellas. Zero sympathy.

    • 0 avatar
      jkross22

      Car dealers suck. Full stop.

      Car dealers were also selling, let’s say 160 units/month pre-pandemic. Now they are selling 100 units/month.

      What exactly are they supposed to do? Take the loss in revenue and not bump prices?

      Dealers are behaving exactly the way most of us would in their position. As loathe as I am to acknowledge that.

    • 0 avatar
      Art Vandelay

      Eh, if you can’t afford new there is always used and if that’s to spendy there is public transit. They are charging what the market will bear. Don’t like the price? Don’t pay it

      • 0 avatar
        brn

        The price of used is even worse than the price of new.

        So now that all cars are dramatically overpriced and if I need a vehicle, I don’t have the option to not pay it.

      • 0 avatar
        EBFlex

        “Don’t like the price? Don’t pay it”

        Art enough with the common sense. We are not allowed to use simple, reasonable logic here.

        • 0 avatar
          golden2husky

          …“Don’t like the price? Don’t pay it”

          Art enough with the common sense. We are not allowed to use simple, reasonable logic here…

          Your “logic” only holds if you are buying a car simply because you want it. Then pay up for it and stop complaining. But what about those who have lost a car in a crash, or their lease is up, or their present car died. Now you are FORCED to pay up to the robber barons. A car is not like a piece of jewelry where you can go without and not have it impact your life. Dealers are, for the most part, opportunistic scum. Full stop.

          • 0 avatar
            EBFlex

            “ Your “logic” only holds if you are buying a car simply because you want it”

            Well no that not even remotely true. Even if you lose a vehicle due to a crash or some other event, there are plenty of new vehicles being sold at or just below MSRP and many reliable used options that are reasonable priced.

            Recently I stumbled upon a 2013 or 2015 Chevy Cruze Eco with 125k miles for $8k. That’s a reasonable price for a car in the middle of Brandon’s war on gasoline that will deliver 40+ MPG

          • 0 avatar
            Art Vandelay

            you have no right, enumerated or otherwise to own an automobile. If you don’t want to deal with dealers, buy a Tesla. If you are worried about being unable to replace your vehicle following a crash, perhaps it is time for you to talk with your auto insurance agent.

            Maybe they are scum, but their purpose in life is not to ensure that the poors have wheels.

            Yours or anyone elses transportation issues are not my problem or concern. Honestly the fewer crapboxes with their check engine lights proudly proclaiming a lack of maintenance cluttering up the road, the better for me AND the environment!

            You are the smart ones…I am certain you can figure out a solution to whatever issues you may have.

            But when someone can no longer afford to keep their pollution belching unmaintained crapbox on the road, frankly I look at it with similar glee that you do when an anti-vaxxer dies.

            Anyway, dont care. You can’t afford it? Sorry, buy nice sneakers

          • 0 avatar
            Art Vandelay

            Having said that, I am sure your “solution” involves some sort of handout to help the poors buy gas.

          • 0 avatar
            EBFlex

            “You are the smart ones…I am certain you can figure out a solution to whatever issues you may have.”

            The only solution those people have is more taxes. Can’t afford a car? Raise taxes.

            Raising taxes solves everything.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            “you have no right, enumerated or otherwise to own an automobile.’

            That’s true for anyone who does not use their vehicle for earning a living. Transportation to and from work doesn’t count as such.

            Used car prices have climbed and their are dealers ramping up prices of their products. Caveat emptor. Perform one’s due diligence and accept the mark up or expand one’s purchase parameters.
            I’m not going to get suckered into a high purchase price even if my vehicle is totaled in a crash.

    • 0 avatar
      EBFlex

      “These guys are shamelessly marking up everything with four wheels right now.”

      And people are still buying vehicles. But, somehow, magically, it’s the dealers fault and they should be punished?

      WTF kind of demented liberal pretzel logic is that?

      • 0 avatar
        deanst

        The simple solution is to allow all manufacturers to sell direct. I’m sure all those endorsing the additional dealer markup will be in favour of this capitalist solution.

        • 0 avatar
          EBFlex

          Yes because the manufacturer will never raise prices to make more money. Tesla and their direct to consumer model has never raised prices.

          Remember the $35k model 3? Yeah MSRP starting price is like $46k-$47k now.

    • 0 avatar
      Art Vandelay

      Why should they feel shame? When you sell your home or anything else, don’t you yourself attempt to get the maximumm that the market will bear?

      Car ownership is now like buying a home in LA or something…fewer people will be able to do it than in years past.

      Deal with it, fellas. Zero sympathy. I mean, 81 million people voted for this. Don’t like it? GFYS

      • 0 avatar
        Astigmatism

        “81 million people voted for this.”

        You think the 74 million people who voted for someone else didn’t also think that prices should be set by basic market dynamics of supply and demand?

        • 0 avatar
          Art Vandelay

          Your boy is hostile to domestic energy production. Nothing happening is a shock to anyone that actually listened to what he had to say during the campaign. If you cant afford those consequences now I have no sympathy.

          I like fewer people 9n the road though. Hopefully it gets more expensive.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            “Hopefully it gets more expensive.”

            Only the beginning.

          • 0 avatar
            Art Vandelay

            good! Nice to see the politicians delivering on their promises and the people getting exactly what they voted for!

          • 0 avatar
            Astigmatism

            What do you think “Your boy is hostile to domestic energy production” (which, btw, is a funny thing to say considering that energy production, and new oil and gas leases, are both up since he took office) has to do with the dealer-favorable supply-demand balance that’s been a reality ever since Covid started to shut down chip production lines and the automakers guessed wrong about 2021-22 demand?

          • 0 avatar
            Art Vandelay

            Look man, people warned his policies would lead to inflation. They did. I don’t care man…it is what it is. Just don’t have any sympathy either. Shut up and pay up or get your kiester on the bus.

          • 0 avatar
            EBFlex

            “(which, btw, is a funny thing to say considering that energy production, and new oil and gas leases, are both up since he took office)”

            That is flatly untrue. He cancelled so many on day one with is executive orders. Wake up.

          • 0 avatar
            Astigmatism

            US field production of crude oil, thousands of barrels per day, in the last six months of Trump’s presidency: 10,558, 10,868, 10,413, 11,121, 11,084 and 11,056.

            US field production of crude oil, thousands of barrels per day, in the last six months under Biden: 11,330, 11,206, 10,851, 11,526, 11,773 and 11,567.

            https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=pet&s=mcrfpus2&f=m

            Here are the numbers for natural gas; the numbers for the last two months reported are the highest numbers in history: https://www.eia.gov/petroleum/production/#ng-tab

            Meanwhile, and as has been widely reported, “the administration approved more than 3,500 oil and gas drilling permits in its first year, nearly 900 more than the Trump administration did in its first year.” If you can find info about the number of leases in Trump’s last year, I’d be happy to look at them.

            https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2022/01/27/oil-gas-leasing-biden-climate/

      • 0 avatar
        EBFlex

        “I mean, 81 million people voted for this. Don’t like it? GFYS”

        The dead didn’t know any better though, they get a pass.

    • 0 avatar
      Doc423

      That’s why they’re rightfully called “Stealerships”

  • avatar
    285exp

    You mean a lot of people have no idea what costs are involved in making this push to adopt EVs?

    The dickens you say!

  • avatar
    SCE to AUX

    Boo-hoo.

    A couple thoughts as to why the costs are so high:
    – Maybe they are buying too many chargers.
    – Not every charger needs to be 350 kW.
    – Contractors have exorbitant prices these days, no matter the service they provide. Like everyone, they also have worker shortages.
    – A one-year wait sounds like everything else.

    Some other points:
    – I wouldn’t buy an EV that was 100% full. That state of charge is harmful to the battery.
    – A single 350 kW charger is all you need to demonstrate filling speed. That same charger could be used to fill cars which have been sold that day, if the customer wanted it. A full tank of gas was included with my new car this month (an $80 value!). A full battery might be worth $10, depending on your zip code.
    – Home charging is a totally different animal. If your house can power an extra electric range, it can fill an EV.
    – Upgrading the dealership is part of remaining in the franchise. FCA made dealers spend $1 million+ to build special Fiat showrooms a decade ago. Dealers routinely have to upgrade their tools, fixtures, signage, carpeting, etc. This is no different.

    I wonder what those Cadillac dealers who bailed are thinking now.

    • 0 avatar
      la834

      > If your house can power an extra electric range, it can fill an EV.

      You don’t even need the capacity to power an extra electric range (which would be 240V/50A). A typical house electrical panel from recent decades can handle about 200 amps before throwing the main circuit breaker, even though the total of the 25 or so circuit breakers can typically handle 15A or 20A. This is allowed by electrical code, because in normal using nobody is likely to be using all four stove burners, the oven, the toaster, and a few hair dryers at the same time. Much home EV charging occurs overnight when even less electrical stuff is used. So you can usually just add an additional 240V/30A or 240V/50A circuit to the existing panel. (note: talk to an electrician before doing this in case it is necessary to upgrade the panel; I don’t condone doing anything not up to code).

      • 0 avatar
        Master Baiter

        “You don’t even need the capacity to power an extra electric range…”

        This isn’t about charging at home. It’s about DC fast charging at 200+ kW, which is what is needed for practical road tripping, or for dealers to demonstrate that EVs don’t completely suck at refuel time.

        It’s not just car dealers that are discovering the reality of upgrading electrical service to add fast EV charging. It’s service stations, convenience stores, etc.

        There are technical solutions to this problem, but those also involve significant expenditure and possibly wait times for the proper equipment.

        • 0 avatar
          deanst

          Wait until people learn that the sun doesn’t shine at night so their vehicle is being changed on coal. (Said half in jest, but the worlds largest EV market – China – gets the majority of their electricity from coal plants.)

          • 0 avatar
            EBFlex

            Even now, 60% of US energy comes from fossil fuels. So, 60% of all US miles covered by EVs are fossil fuel miles.

            So we are spending billions and billions for only a 40% reduction in fossil fuel use and the result are vehicles that have a short range and very long times to recharge.

            The juice isn’t worth the squeeze.

        • 0 avatar
          EBFlex

          “It’s about DC fast charging at 200+ kW, which is what is needed for practical road tripping, or for dealers to demonstrate that EVs don’t completely suck at refuel time.”

          Bingo. But it’s a bait and switch. Because even at that speed refuel times are still vastly inferior to ICE refueling times and you can’t get that level of fast charging at home. It would be like filling you car at a gas station vs filling it from 5 gallon cans at home.

      • 0 avatar
        SCE to AUX

        @la834: Right – my 7 kW charger uses a double 40A breaker. It was easy to install (which I did in 2012).

        My 1967 home has 150A service, and I have an electric range and hot water, but gas furnace and dryer, and central air. I’ve never had a single power problem with the addition of the EV.

  • avatar
    Lou_BC

    Wouldn’t most car dealerships with repair services already be wired to handle industrial air compressors and other assorted higher voltage equipment?

    • 0 avatar
      CKNSLS Sierra SLT

      Lou_BC-
      No that’s not how it works. In addition-I doubt dealers want public access to chargers in their service area.

      Transformers would need additional commercial service upgrade. In an industrial situation most times the wiring when initially put in-is usually put in to handle the equipment at install and maybe a little excess-but not for high level charging.
      I dealt with this in Industrial sales in the print industry.

      • 0 avatar
        Lou_BC

        Thanks

      • 0 avatar
        SPPPP

        The 350kW chargers (from what I read) operate at 800 volts. That’s much more than a typical dealer shop would have. So that means a new transformer just to start. And that works out to an awful lot of amps as well, so there’s big fat wiring and a new panel to go along with it. All pretty pricey.

        • 0 avatar
          golden2husky

          Not to mention the other cost waiting in the wings – Demand charges. Utilities charge more – much more – to provide infrastructure to provide high levels of usage, even for those that are sporadic. So a few chargers in use can bump the demand charges up and that new charge stays for XX (time frame varies by utility) hours even after the demand drops. We dealt with this at work with our large buildings – sometimes it made more sense to start the A/C chillers in a staggered fashion to keep the overall load below a given threshold. We actually used more electricity but the overall cost for power was less this way. Utilities have a point as they have to provide the ability to meet your total load even if it is for a short period of time.

        • 0 avatar
          Funky D

          Conservatively using a .7 power factor, it would take about 500 kVA to power such a charger. So a 1500 kVA transformer would power 3 of them. The cost for this runs about $20~25k, so that isn’t going to be a big part of the upgrade costs compared to the other stuff like the wiring.

    • 0 avatar
      EBFlex

      “Wouldn’t most car dealerships with repair services already be wired to handle industrial air compressors and other assorted higher voltage equipment?”

      Unbelievable. Because a dealer has an air compressor, they should be able to also charge numerous EVs at a time.

      By that logic, I should be able to rapid charge an EV off of my vehicles 12V outlet because I can also run a compressor off of that outlet.

      • 0 avatar
        golden2husky

        What a condescending tool you are. Not everyone is an electrical engineer (I am BTW). From someone without knowledge of electrical design or installations, his question is legitimate to ask. But better to denigrate him on this than challenge him on world events, energy production, or overall general knowledge where he would eat you for breakfast.

        • 0 avatar
          EBFlex

          “What a condescending tool you are. Not everyone is an electrical engineer (I am BTW). From someone without knowledge of electrical design or installations, his question is legitimate to ask. But better to denigrate him on this than challenge him on world events, energy production, or overall general knowledge where he would eat you for breakfast.”

          No, it was a amazingly stupid question. You can call me names and throw a tantrum but I treat him the same way he treats me. If you don’t like it, that’s your problem.

  • avatar
    Land Ark

    This is what I used to do every day. Commercial service upgrades are no joke. The power company installs enough transformation to serve the load you are asking for at the time. Adding fast chargers to an existing site will definitely mean a new transformer (at least depending on how many chargers they want) and new wires. And that’s just the power company cost. The internal electrical work and permitting get really expensive really fast.

  • avatar
    Superdessucke

    Hahahahahaha!!

  • avatar
    ToolGuy

    “Opening them to the public is also a sly way to convince people to frequent your lot”

    • Customer drives EV onto lot: “Can I charge my vehicle here?”
    • Salesperson: “Let me run a copy of your license and discuss this with my manager.”

  • avatar

    So, after reading discussion I can conclude that dealers are Devil.

  • avatar
    28-Cars-Later

    Dealers add non-negotiable “we are annoyed” fee pack to all new product.

  • avatar
    EBFlex

    Yet more proof this EV nonsense is just not ready for primetime. Outrageous costs for chargers for cars people don’t want.

    • 0 avatar
      SCE to AUX

      Gas pumps are free; I saw that on the internet. And removing the tanks from the ground is free, because AOC pays for it.

      • 0 avatar
        EBFlex

        Is that what you think?

        • 0 avatar
          SCE to AUX

          What do you think gas pumps cost? It’s not free, but somehow EV chargers are ‘outrageous’.

          • 0 avatar
            mcs

            @SCE: While these little old ladies stand there clutching their pearls in terror, time and innovation keep solving problems.

            You have Airstream solving the towing/range issue by adding batteries and drive motors to trailers and now Siemens has developed lamppost chargers for city streets. Present a challenge and companies innovate to meet them while others stand around clutching their pearls shrieking in terror because they think the sky is falling.

            Check out these lamp post chargers:

            https://thedriven.io/2020/03/24/siemens-converts-all-lamp-posts-on-residential-street-to-electric-car-chargers/

            https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1127536_uk-project-builds-electric-car-charging-into-a-half-mile-of-lampposts

          • 0 avatar
            EBFlex

            “ It’s not free, but somehow EV chargers are ‘outrageous’.”

            Mark this day down because you finally made a comment that is factually correct. Nice work!

            How many dealerships have gas pumps available for customers? Do you think it would be cheaper to install a tank to hold fuel and 2 pumps or install these silly fast chargers?

            Yes. The chargers are outrageously expensive and indicative of the entire EV movement. Overpriced and underdeliver

  • avatar
    pmirp1

    Why do dealers need to even have charging infrastructure? Why you ask?

    The answer is Tesla. Because Tesla has its own charging infrastructure. And that makes Tesla work. So GMs and Fords want dealers to help them come up with charging infrastructure. And dealers, even mega dealers, are not equipped with cost of building that infrastructure.

    This stuff has to be organic. Either someone’s business model makes it happen together with free wall street speculative money (Tesla). or independent entities get in that business when they feel it is ripe to do so.

    After all this is the land of free enterprise. Trust me. When Blackrocks, and Vanguards and pension funds of the world see opportunity in building independent charging networks around the country (think Chevron and Exxon type gas stations), that is when things happen. Until wall street trusts the promise of electric, more than just give it happy talk, this stuff will be rough rough rough.

    • 0 avatar
      Master Baiter

      Well said. Tesla can afford the infrastructure due to its stratospheric market valuation.

      The question in my mind is whether people will purchase EVs in significant numbers knowing that they are unsuited to road trips, or for towing heavy loads that cause the range to crater. How often people actually do these things is irrelevant–people buy cars based on what they think they MIGHT do, not what they actually do. Look at all the SUVs people buy with 4WD and high ground clearance and never take them off road.

      • 0 avatar
        mcs

        “The question in my mind is whether people will purchase EVs in significant numbers knowing that they are unsuited to road trips,”

        Completely untrue. Plenty of people make long distance road trips in EVs. I’ve done it. There have been published cannonball coast to coast runs with them.

        “or for towing heavy loads that cause the range to crater. ”

        There are solutions to that. Take for example the Airstream eStream. Has it’s own battery and drive motors so the range loss isn’t an issue.

        https://www.airstream.com/air-lab/concepts/estream/

        • 0 avatar
          ToolGuy

          ^^^
          Dear TTAC Management: It is 9AM EST. The productive high achievers [note: NOT me] are awake and alert.

          I.e., the fish are jumping and you have no bait in the water.
          • Post an article (some article, any article) EVERY MORNING – on time, on schedule

          This is not rocket science. Your current business model as I understand it is to attract people with articles, then get them to click on affiliate links, then hope that they never clear cookies. If this is it, we can do it a lot better. (A *lot* better.)

          [Edit: When we say ‘some article any article,’ perhaps we can aim higher than feline puke next time? #goals]

      • 0 avatar
        SCE to AUX

        @MB:

        “Tesla can afford the infrastructure due to its stratospheric market valuation.”

        You have it backwards. Tesla began building the Supercharger network long before it had any meaningful valuation. They didn’t build 31k US Superchargers overnight.

      • 0 avatar
        EBFlex

        “The question in my mind is whether people will purchase EVs in significant numbers knowing that they are unsuited to road trips, or for towing heavy loads that cause the range to crater. ”

        No. We have seen it already. People are not buying EVs in large numbers and as more come out, the more people will learn of their vas limitations.

        The road trip thing is interesting though. Using A better Route Planner, I chose three locations from my address and then compared it with what Google Maps estimated the drive timer to be:

        Trip 1 – 260 miles – ICE vehicle – 4 hrs – no fuel stops
        Trip 1 – 260 miles – EV – 5 hrs – 1 charge stop, arrive with 10% battery

        Trip 2 – 400 miles – ICE vehicle – 6hrs 11 min – No fuel stops
        Trip 2 – 400 miles – EV – 7hrs 39min – 3 charge stop, arrive with 10% batt.

        Trip 3 – 1700 miles – ICE – 25hrs – 4 fuel stops
        Trip 3 – 1700 miles – EV – 34hrs – 15 charge stops, arrive with 10% batt.

        And that was assuming a vehicle averaging 30MPG and a 15 gallon tank.

        The EV was a standard range non-Mustang Mach E with AWD

        • 0 avatar
          dal20402

          How often do you take 1700-mile road trips in a car instead of an airplane? I’ve taken one car trip of that length in the last 30 years, and it was when I moved from DC to Seattle in 2012.

          The others are perfectly doable, just a bit less convenient. You make up the convenience and time in normal life when you can charge at home. And if you were doing them regularly you wouldn’t buy a short-range EV, you’d buy a long-range one that would cut one of the stops out of your longer trip.

          • 0 avatar
            EBFlex

            “ How often do you take 1700-mile road trips in a car”

            Doesn’t matter. The fact is, EVs have major shortcoming my s compared to ICE vehicles. People know it and people avoid them because of it.

            Your mindset of “You must convert to this inferior technology and when it can’t do what you want it to do, then you just stop doing that thing” is typical of your ilk (and sounds very Putin-ish) but it won’t fly.

            It’s not being unreasonable to expect EVs (that are 60% powered by fossil fuel) to equal or better all of the aspects of an ICE vehicle before they are forced down peoples throats in a misguided effort to “save” the planet.

            Imaging of Thomas Edison came out with a light bulb that didn’t work yet people were forced to use it?

          • 0 avatar
            dal20402

            Who is forcing you to buy an EV? You’re putting words in my mouth. Although I assume it’s not intentional but just your usual lack of reading comprehension.

            I’m just telling you that your objections are overstated. My family takes several 300- to 800-mile road trips a year and we are likely going to go full EV for the next big car. Nobody’s forcing us, that’s a voluntary choice. Yep, the trips will take a bit longer. We’re prepared for that. We are willing to put up with it in exchange for the lack of exhaust, the lack of fill-ups, and the excellent driving characteristics and packaging of EVs.

          • 0 avatar
            EBFlex

            “We are willing to put up with it in exchange for the lack of exhaust,”

            Because electricity has no emissions.

            My objections are not overstated. They are just facts. I chose a short trip, a medium length trip, and a long trip. I illustrated the massive shortfalls on all three.

            And we are being forced through government meddling. They are subsidization anything EV related while making it harder and harder to afford gasoline. This is ginned up demand. This is market manipulation at it’s finest.

            Had the government not pushed this unproven and unreliable EV technology, automakers would have taken smaller steps to get to EVs and release them when they are not vastly inferior to even the most basic of ICE vehicles. We would have seen more hybrids and more plug-in hybrids (<– which, if you want to get people into EVs, that is your ticket. All the benefits of an EV without the major issues)

        • 0 avatar
          SCE to AUX

          @EBFlex:
          “People are not buying EVs in large numbers”

          In 2021, Tesla outsold 17 ‘small’ brands such as Dodge, Audi, Buick, Acura, Volvo, and Cadillac in the US market. Their sales jumped while everyone else tanked, and they’ve just opened their 5th major assembly plant.

          The Model Y and Model 3 were the 19th and 30th best-selling vehicles in the US, out of 309 nameplates by my count. That’s an enviable position to be in.

          VW, GM, Ford, and Hyundai all use Tesla as a benchmark for their own EV programs, which add to the EV volume.

          Your ‘factual’ statements should include actual some facts.

          • 0 avatar
            EBFlex

            They do. Every single time.

            But you on the other hand, cherry pick data to try and prove your false point. You use data from a year that was riddled with supply issues.

            Unfortunately for you, cherry picking data doesn’t prove your case. It proves mine. Lets look at data from from 2019 before China’s covid cold wrecked the world:

            Total North American sales:

            Tesla – 195K
            Dodge – 423K
            Audi – 224K
            Buick – 207K
            Acura – 157K
            BMW – 325K
            GMC – 565K
            Lexua – 300K

  • avatar
    dwford

    What’s the point of demoing the 350kw charging when there is no place to charge that fast anywhere in the real world? And if one dealer is going to cost $200k to upgrade, now price out upgrading all the current charging stations nationwide, plus the 100s of 1000s more that need to be built.

    • 0 avatar
      SCE to AUX

      “there is no place to charge that fast anywhere in the real world”

      Keep trying. 350 kW chargers are here today and are rapidly becoming the norm.

      How much do you think dealers spend every year on upgrades? $200k is nothing.

    • 0 avatar
      EBFlex

      “What’s the point of demoing the 350kw charging when there is no place to charge that fast anywhere in the real world?”

      That’s a very good point. Real world even so called fast chargers are usually very slow. Rarely do they charge at their maximum rate.

  • avatar
    SoCalMikester

    back when, everyone had to replace all their TVs. sometimes stuff happens. smart dealers would have already known and maybe moved to newer buildings. not always possible with leases.

  • avatar
    SoCalMikester

    im cool til it hits mebbe $10/gal. til then? suckit.

  • avatar
    BEPLA

    Rockland Electric Co. said, ‘We’ve got to get you more power’ because what we had coming in from the street wasn’t enough,” So maybe get some solar panels that will double as canopies to protect your outdoor inventory to supplement the power coming in from the road? It’s not like it isn’t a total business tax write-off.

  • avatar
    sumgai1986

    This makes no sense. Why would dealers *have* to install chargers? When is the last time you went to a dealer with a fully functioning on-site gas station? If the manufacturers want this, they should be ready to pony up and help cover the costs.

  • avatar
    NigelShiftright

    Now wait until the power company finds out that the grid on Highway XX can’t support half a dozen car dealerships without browning out every other business.

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