By on February 7, 2022

Last spring, the United States Postal Service announced that it would finally be replacing its fleet of Grumman Long Life Vehicles (LLVs) that have more than lived up to their name. Having entered into service in 1987 to replace the Dispatcher Jeep, the LLV is scheduled to be replaced by 150,000 new mail trucks from Oshkosh Defense. While the government originally wanted to use an all-electric platform, it was believed that rural routes probably required an internal combustion vehicle. Preexisting government contracts with Oshkosh likely made it a compelling manufacturer, though it annoyed some of the smaller candidates. Workhorse even sued the USPS last summer for not selecting its hideous entrant, though the official complaint was that the government hadn’t given EVs a fair shake.

That now appears to be changing because the Biden administration and Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) have asked USPS to hold off on the $11.3 billion contract with Oshkosh so electric options can be reevaluated. 

When the original deal was made in 2021, the Postal Service was desperate for replacement vehicles. Ancient Grumman trucks that failed to hang were being supplemented with whatever automobiles could be sourced locally and the hunt for their formal successor was already several years old.

When Oshkosh Defense was selected, its Next Generation Delivery Vehicle (NGDV) production designs hadn’t yet been finalized. But they were supposed to have the ability to be retrofitted with all-electric powertrains, with the default configuration being a “low-emission, internal-combustion engine.” The USPS stated that it had selected the NGDV due to its affordability, superior ergonomics, and capacity to hold higher volumes of mail than the alternatives. It also claimed that the ability to have internal combustion or battery power made it more adaptable while offering practicality in certain environments that an EV might lack.

But Joe Biden went into office vowing to replace the entire U.S. government fleet with all-electric vehicles, making the Postal Service’s prior decision to outfit just 10 percent of Oshkosh trucks with battery-driven powertrains a political problem.

The White House issued a letter to the USPS on February 2nd, signed by Brenda Mallory (Chair of the Council on Environmental Quality), criticizing how the Postal Service conducted its “environmental review” of Oshkosh. It also noted that its own “grave concerns” were shared by the EPA and that the national transition to all-electric vehicles was a “top priority” of the Biden administration. Mallory said that the post office would have the White House’s full support in electrifying its fleet, inducing budgetary and technical assistance.

The letter really doesn’t split hairs. It’s very clear that the Biden administration wants to maximize domestic EV production at all costs and criticizes the way in which Oshkosh products were evaluated. Among the more valid complaints is how the new NGDVs are only slightly more fuel-efficient than the outgoing LLVs.

Oshkosh trucks average 8.6 mpg while the older Grummans average 8.2 mpg. The EPA had previously expressed concerns about the environmental impact of the new trucks in the fall, suggesting the Environmental Impact Statements used to rationalize the deal were problematic. Though it’s not surprising that the agency sided with the Biden administration. Its current administrator, Michael S. Regan, launched North Carolina Environmental Justice and Equity Board and has vocally committed himself toward promoting green energy and addressing “environmental racism” at the EPA. Since being sworn in on March 11, 2021, Regan appears to be in close alignment with the Biden administration and ensuring the EPA exists in service of advancing EVs.

According to Reuters, the post office has responded to the criticisms leveled against it by saying it’s too impractical and expensive to buy thousands upon thousands of all-electric vehicles right now.

“While we can understand why some who are not responsible for the financial sustainability of the Postal Service might prefer that we acquire more electric vehicles, the law requires us to be self-sufficient,” USPS said in a statement, adding it was still “willing to accelerate the pace of electrification of our delivery fleet if a solution can be found to do so that is not financially detrimental to the Postal Service.”

Biden’s executive order to have the entire government fleet swap to EVs has created a problem here. The White House and regulatory agencies with agreeable appointees are demanding the USPS buy the “full minimum committed” EV volume before purchasing any new gas-powered vehicles. It also wants mail trucks to be replaced with commercially available electric trucks wherever possible. But the USPS doesn’t see it as financially viable, leaving us with just one solution — more government funding.

While the Postal Service has agreed to spend $500 million on the next-generation vehicles that are convertible to EVs from internal-combustion models, Biden’s Build Back Better Act would have allocated $6 billion in tax-payer funds for USPS to purchase electric delivery vehicles and the necessary charging infrastructure. With that kind of money, the post office believes it could potentially convert its entire fleet to electric models by 2030.

However, none of that would be a certainty, even with the additional funding. Meanwhile, the Build Back Better Act has been criticized for having far too little to do with practical infrastructure concerns, intentionally politicizing union involvement, funneling money to automakers, rejiggering tax codes around climate issues, and being outrageously expensive during a period where inflation has become a grave concern among legislators. The bill is currently stalled in Congress with the odds of it getting passed in its current form seeming slight at best.

[Images: USPS]

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98 Comments on “Biden EPA Tells USPS More Mail Trucks Should Be EVs...”


  • avatar
    SaulTigh

    I look forward to not getting my mail on time, in addition to not having full shelves in my local supermarket.

    My postman drives a Mercedes Metris with the star removed and a USPS Eagle on the grill. He said he likes it quite a bit better than the old LLV. I wonder how those are holding up?

    • 0 avatar
      28-Cars-Later

      “He said he likes it quite a bit better than the old LLV. I wonder how those are holding up?”

      I don’t think they are/were beloved but they actually were holding up surprisingly well as of about ten years ago (about 20-25yo at the time), I cannot speak to them now.

    • 0 avatar
      dwford

      Oh, you noticed the Mercedes vans? You weren’t supposed to. That badge removal was done on purpose just so the post office didn’t have to listen to people complain

    • 0 avatar
      GiddyHitch

      Another article mentioned that consumer vehicles like the Metris and other minivans have a service life of only 10 years, compared to 25 years for the LLV.

  • avatar
    28-Cars-Later

    I would so hate to be management for the USPS, not even now but for the past forty years. You’re an independent agency but of the executive branch of USG so I’m not sure how “independent” one can be in such a classification. I’m sure Brandon and his cronies have some financial interest here, but did everything in the world suddenly get unf**ed that we can sit and discuss the strategic plans or capital budget expenditures of the USPS? Did Brandon forget about the proxy war he’s starting in Ukraine like someone forgets they microwaved something?

    “The United States Postal Service (USPS; also known as the Post Office, U.S. Mail, or Postal Service) is an independent agency of the executive branch of the United States federal government responsible for providing postal service in the United States, including its insular areas and associated states.”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Postal_Service

  • avatar

    “Workhorse even used the USPS”

    Did they “use” USPS like a rental? (About that spell check…)

    And if you don’t like my comment, sue me.

  • avatar
    Cicero

    I think Biden really missed an opportunity here when his EO failed to specify that the new EV mail trucks would need to be designed by a black female.

  • avatar
    ravenuer

    Sounds to me like the original design for the NGDV, with the ability to use either EV or IC power, would be a reasonable way to go.
    But what do I know?

  • avatar
    haze3

    Not a one size fits all situation.

    EV’s should be superior for a significant percentage of the USPS use cases (urban, suburban routes). EV’s are nearly perfect for many cases. Run ICE elsewhere (e.g. western rural), no heartburn.

    EV’s will have superior emissions and operating costs (no wear/use idling, centralized overnight charging) but higher initial capital costs (more expensive vehicles, charging infrastructure). EV will also implement more slowly due to tight battery supplies and the need to roll-out high voltage chargers and, potentially, grid upgrades at USPS facilities.

    No question that EV is more expensive up-front cost (-) or that they’ll pay off longer term (+).

    • 0 avatar
      Art Vandelay

      Source?

      • 0 avatar
        haze3

        Good question. Here are a couple.

        EV fuel costs would be significantly lower, order of $0.10-0.15/mile
        https://avt.inl.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/fsev/costs.pdf

        EV fleet maintenance estimates suggest 25-40% savings vs. ICE alternatives
        https://www.fleetmaintenance.com/equipment/battery-and-electrical/article/21250369/breakdown-of-ev-maintenance-expenses

    • 0 avatar
      GiddyHitch

      @haze

      Agreed. 10% EV (USPS plan) and 100% EV (Biden plan) are both ridiculous use mixes. The final order will end up somewhere in the middle.

    • 0 avatar
      Lorenzo

      There”s another choice: hybrid. That will work in the West and rural routes, and probably get MUCH better than the 8.6 MPG Oshkosh gets from its Ford drivetrain.

      The only hybrid drivetrain Ford still makes is the plug-in Escape, so Oshkosh/Ford couldn’t be the sole supplier. I expect the contract to be extensively modified, after the EPA punches some holes in the Environmental Review of Oshkosh the USPS performed that undergirds the contract.

    • 0 avatar
      Oberkanone

      haze3 – Can you spare some change for USPS?

      USPS has $188.4 billion in liabilities

      They don’t have the money for EV’s and infrastructure improvements.

      • 0 avatar
        28-Cars-Later

        No worry, JPow can have that $188 billion ready by Friday.

      • 0 avatar
        haze3

        It takes money (capital investment) to make money (reduced operating cost, environmental impact).

        The private sector (UPS, FedEX, Amazon) is investing electrification (google it). Of course, the investments will be played up for environmental marketing advantage but the operating cost advantages are clear and they are not fools. Fleets last a long time, operating costs will rule the day.

        Like it or not, if USPS does not utilize similar vision and obtain and deploy capital appropriately (and, in 2022, it’s hard to see how resetting with a fully ICE fleet is the right long-term choice), then the USPS may just disappear from the landscape. That would be livable for many but real trouble for the unprofitable rural routes that USPS serves as part of its civic mission.

        • 0 avatar
          haze3

          As for where to get $, the current constraints on the USPS’s funding would hamstring most forward-looking businesses. On the upside, those constraints are tied to law and not to the constitution itself. Laws are not that hard to change.

          The USPS is in a catch-22. It shares the mission of UPS but also has to do more (e.g. door-to-door, everywhere, 6 days/wk). What’s more, it is asked to deliver mail to both low-density and high-density populations at the same customer cost.

          We want the USPS to “act like a business” but we constrain its funding and its mission. In that situation, yes, it’s going to take more gov’t funding to stay relevant, EV or not. If we want to let it go, we cannot complain about the loss of rural service or the economic impact.

  • avatar
    SCE to AUX

    Well, that 8-10 mpg is proof that either:

    1) The USPS is delivering mail in Dodge Demons, or
    2) Their 4-cylinder mail trucks waste huge amounts of fuel while averaging a few miles per hour in daily use.

    EVs would be ideal for this application.

    Amazon has 100,000 electric delivery vehicles ordered from Rivian. Just a guess, but Amazon has the delivery thing figured out. Meanwhile, the hapless USPS is stuck in the 90s with antiquated equipment, and no idea how to improve.

    • 0 avatar
      28-Cars-Later

      I agree, I think putting that into action is far more difficult than advertised. I will also add, let’s say Amazon runs into some massive problem with their Rivians and has to spend major funds to remediate it. Amazon the corporation can afford to do so, USPS cannot. In simpler terms USPS cannot shoot and miss with any major expenditure and in a constantly evolving EV world I think their caution is warranted.

      I will put this out there, why was a Prius based (or Ford’s hybrid) LLV never discussed? The original Ford hybrids (which I believe used some Toyota licensed technology) put up some serious mileage in NYC cab use. I’ve been inside of LLVs in my life, they are larger and more box shaped than a Prius wagon but is there really no use case for a Prius/Escape hatchback? Someone can’t put together a modified Prius/Escape etc. version the size of an LLV in a year or two?

      • 0 avatar
        SCE to AUX

        True, a hybrid would be a good solution for everything they do.

      • 0 avatar
        FreedMike

        I’m not an expert on hauling the mail, but I’d think a Prius wouldn’t be a good candidate (too small). Seems to me a hybrid vehicle might be a good compromise here. Doing a plug-in version would give the Post Office a good opportunity to install the infrastructure needed (i.e., chargers, etc) for the eventual all-electric transition.

        • 0 avatar
          28-Cars-Later

          You may not have noticed but in more recent years USPS turned to Dodge Caravans I suppose as LLVs were decommissioned. Larger and more importantly taller than the Prius wagon, but the latter is not completely out of the ballpark. I have no doubt something custom could be built in a year if the order were enticing enough.

          Thinking outside of the box, limits on junk mail (which seems to be 90% of all mail) would greatly reduce the payload of most routes to the point where the existing Prius wagon could be considered.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            The USPS around here uses Mercedes passenger vans about the size of the Caravan to deliver to bulk mailboxes like the one in my complex. If I’m a mail carrier, the flat floor and sliding side doors would be very nice features.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            I haven’t seen Sprinter vans in use here but I agree the sliding door makes *the* difference. I’m not sure if Ford has come up with a Transit hybrid but the Transit Connect in hybrid is ideal for an LLV replacement. Maybe they’d have to fashion a sliding door on it but in the grand scheme that wouldn’t be the hardest thing to engineer. Why nobody else has thought of this I don’t know.

      • 0 avatar
        Jeff S

        US Government for the most part purchases from US based companies which would rule out Toyota but not Ford. Ford has a good hybrid system and it wouldn’t be the hard to apply that drivetrain to a specifically designed vehicle for the Postal Service. That would definitely work for the rural delivery. As for EVs it seems there are a number of companies that either could make an EV or at least provide an EV system for another company.

        • 0 avatar
          28-Cars-Later

          Chrysler has not been a US owned company since about 2010 yet USPS purchased and uses Canadian assembled Dodge Caravans. I do hear what you’re saying about USG fleet purchase rules but I think its actually based on model content not brand or mfg company.

          • 0 avatar
            Jeff S

            Model content is some of it but being an ex-Government employee it is usually a US based corporation whenever it is possible. Office supplies, computers, and printers are mostly made in China or Asia but then most of the computers and laptops are HP and then Dell. During 1 year of President Trump before Covid the Government stopped buying HP printers because China was on the no buy list and instead purchase Xerox printers that were made either in Malaysia or Japan. The Xerox printers were more troublesome and were harder to get serviced and because of that the Government went back to HP. The Government still buys Chrysler vans but buys a lot of Fords and Chevy. Had some C-Maxs which were very efficient and comfortable but the Focus with the double clutch in 2014 and later the transmissions were junk. For a while in the early to mid oos there were a fleet of Malibu which were decent cars. I have even seen a few Hyundai Accents but not many.

        • 0 avatar
          watersketch

          Baloney- US government has requirements for domestic content but had lots of Toyota and Hyundai cars produced in the US in their current fleet.

          • 0 avatar
            Jeff S

            US Government has a few Toyotas and Hyundai but mostly American based manufacturers. As for how much US content that can vary depending on what is available. A product can have a name like HP but made entirely in China. I didn’t say that the Government didn’t have any Toyotas or Hyundai I said that they had some Hyundai but then maybe you didn’t read the entire comment and launched off into a tirade. Having driven various types of Government vehicles in 33 years I know something about what their fleet is. During the GM and Chrysler bankruptcy the Government bought more Chevrolets, Pontiacs, and Dodge Caravans. Hyundai and Toyota purchases are more recent. The GSA is responsible for the purchase and upkeep of most of the Government Fleet.

        • 0 avatar
          Lorenzo

          The only Ford hybrid Forc curreently sells is the plug-in Escape. Oshkosh sources its drivetrains from Ford, so it’s possible the Escape hybrid could be a fit.

          I don’t know what Ford drivetrain Oshkosh is using in its mail trucks, but the 8.6 mpg number tells me it’s likely a truck drivetrain.

          There might be a need for extensive redesign of the drivetrain to fit the mail trucks AND some redesign of the mail trucks to accommodate a different drivetrain.

          That probably means more design development money and time is needed, and more delays in the USPS getting the mail trucks they needed seven years ago.

    • 0 avatar
      SoCalMikester

      oh gee- which one has all the money in the world? mebbe he can deliver prime parcels from the largest yacht in the world? mebbe after another space trip?

    • 0 avatar
      GiddyHitch

      @SCE

      The low mpg rating is due to the USPS duty cycle which involves extremely frequent stop-start and running all accessories at the same time. Note that the LLV doesn’t have AC and it has an indicated smaller cargo capacity. It would be more insightful to calculate a more normalized metric like fuel consumption per volume of mail or something.

    • 0 avatar

      “Amazon has 100,000 electric delivery vehicles ordered from Rivian”

      Because Amazon is not as clueless as USPS.

      • 0 avatar
        Jeff S

        Also Amazon has the budget to buy what they need. A real test of EV delivery vehicles will be Amazon. USPS could learn a lot from Amazon and Walmart on how to handle shipping and with EVs this could be invaluable.

    • 0 avatar

      A writer over at car bibles did some digging and found some data on this. Apparently off the shelf minivans (caranvans and Metris) get even worse MPG on the delivery duty cycle then these do. Minivans also tend to be end of life at 10 years where the current LLV is approaching 30 years.
      Most routes are less then 30 miles so electric could work well for them, the big question is why a hybrid wasn’t tested, there seems to be questions whether the USPS said no to hybrids or no one that bid on the project thought they were a good idea.

  • avatar
    EBFlex

    Ah yes EVs. The solution to all of lifes problems no matter how horrible they are.

    Yet again we are met with a completely ridiculous application for an EV. Outside of the city where letter carriers walk, the mail trucks need to be internal combustion. Having a comically short range and a long recharge time would not do well. Throw in long rural routes, the severe decline in range when it’s cold and it’s clear that EVs are not the answer.

    Nobody is surprised that the installed Brandon admin would hold up something so simple as a replacing the Grumman LLV. The perfect balance is a hybrid or a PHEV. A PHEV with a 75 mile range but an ICE backup for when the EV portion fails, to provide heat, and eliminate range issues and recharge issues.

    • 0 avatar
      mcs

      “Having a comically short range and a long recharge time would not do well.”

      Actually, they don’t have a comically short range. Ranges of 200, 300, oor 400+ miles isn’t comical. Besides, for a lot of postal routes, it’s probably less than 20 miles. Recharging isn’t a problem since the vehicles are parked for about 12 hours a day.

      “ICE backup for when the EV portion fails”
      It’s not going to fail.

      By the way, the longest mail rout in the country is 187.6 miles. That’s even doable in something like a Rivian.

    • 0 avatar
      mcs

      “Having a comically short range and a long recharge time would not do well.”

      Actually, they don’t have a comically short range. Ranges of 200, 300, oor 400+ miles isn’t comical. Besides, for a lot of postal routes, it’s probably less than 20 miles. Recharging isn’t a problem since the vehicles are parked for about 12 hours a day.

      “ICE backup for when the EV portion fails”
      It’s not going to fail.

      By the way, the longest mail rout in the country is 187.6 miles. That’s even doable in something like a Rivian.

      • 0 avatar
        JMII

        Correct. If there ever was a near perfect fit for EVs mail routes would be it: limited miles, stopped most of the time, plus sits overnight at a central facility.

      • 0 avatar
        EBFlex

        “Actually, they don’t have a comically short range. Ranges of 200, 300, oor 400+ miles isn’t comical. Besides, for a lot of postal routes, it’s probably less than 20 miles. Recharging isn’t a problem since the vehicles are parked for about 12 hours a day.”

        What LLV sized vehicle has a 400+ mile range? Even Ford’s large Transit Mach E has an embarrassingly low range of only 120 miles. Then take 30-35% off for cold weather use and to account for the weight of the mail in the truck.

        “It’s not going to fail.”

        Right. I forgot EVs are completely flawless and never have any issues.

        “By the way, the longest mail rout in the country is 187.6 miles. That’s even doable in something like a Rivian.”

        Ah yes makes perfect sense. Let’s do a mail “route” in a $80,000 vehicle. Afterall, the government has an endless supply of money to buy these ridiculous EVs.

        EVs are not the answer. Modern EVs are light years behind even the most basic of ICE vehicles and that is before you factor in the range issues, recharge issues, and, in the case of the taxpayer funded USPS, price. A far better solution is a bulletproof hybrid powertrain or PHEV powertrain in a Transit Connect sized vehicle.

        • 0 avatar
          mcs

          “EVs are not the answer. Modern EVs are light years behind even the most basic of ICE vehicles ”

          Actually, they are perfectly suited to this application.

          “Right. I forgot EVs are completely flawless and never have any issues.”

          They have a lot fewer issues than the LLV. Even range can be better. In real-world use, the LLV only has about 130 to 140 miles range. The average rural route is 45 miles, so it isn’t a problem for a 150 to 200-mile range Rivian EDV.

          The longest route, done by the USPS is done with a Ford Ranger and not an LLV. Not enough range on the LLV I suppose. It could be done with a Rivian and probably most EV CUVs. Since it’s a vehicle provided by the actual carrier, it wouldn’t be covered by the government program. My guess that Ranger would be replaced by a Maverick by the owner. It looks like he only uses the cab, so a Model 3 with the LFP battery would work since you get 250 miles of range in the cold according to real-world tests in Norway. But, I think this guy would go for a Maverick.

    • 0 avatar
      Matt Posky

      I genuinely dislike the government backed EV push and how much of these purchasing decisions seem to be based upon who knows who (including the Oshkosh deal). But I can almost imagine EVs working for a meaningful percentage of mail routes. I just don’t see government bureaucracies pulling it off without wasting scads of money in the process. At the end of the day, this is still tied to BBB getting passed and that’s a nonstarter for me.

      • 0 avatar
        Cicero

        I’ll only say that now is the time to jump into the think tank industry that churns out thick reports that nobody reads that address topics like how the disparate impact of EV mail trucks on minority populations might be mitigated to produce equitable outcomes, or something. This type of grift attaches to virtually any big federal initiative. There are literally billions to be made, assuming you’re in with the “right people.”

        And by the “right people” I mean mainly Hunter Biden.

    • 0 avatar
      Astigmatism

      Well, the internet is never wrong, and this here internet site says a lady at the USPS told them that the longest mail route in the entire country is 182.75 miles: https://people.howstuffworks.com/when-postal-carrier-delivers-mail.htm

      My guess is that the average EV delivery van with a functional 100-mile range will do fine for 99% of mail routes, without the wear and tear or efficiency loss of an ICE stopping and starting 250 times over a ten-mile route.

  • avatar
    kcflyer

    Oshkosh got the contract because of shady connections with the postmaster general. They not only did not have a EV prototype they admitted they might not be able to make one. Their entry was just a ford transit with a body kit on the nose. Workhorse had a ready to go EV design but the fix was in. Workhorse filed a lawsuit but for no official reason dropped it later.

    • 0 avatar
      Art Vandelay

      source?

      • 0 avatar
        kcflyer

        Here you go Art

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSM1dRFIAQ0

        this guy is an amateur sleuth and he is careful not to make direct accusations. But the list of incidents is compelling and I think allows one to make a reasonable conclusion. At the very least it is appalling that Oshkosh won the contract without submitting an actual EV. Even if the Workhorse EV was half baked it was an actual EV. More proof that the left’s climate change agenda is just that, an agenda. All sizzle and no steak.

        There are plenty of other stories online questioning the postal contract but I found this one the most interesting in how it illuminates the Post master generals history dating back to when his other company paid huge fines for cheating the postal service. So naturally we put him in charge.

  • avatar
    BSttac

    Ridiculous but not surprising. Biden is so corrupt I will bet a million dollars he will try to force USPS to go with one of his campaigns biggest financial contributer. So corrupt

  • avatar
    pmirp1

    Here goes Branden again. With another mandate. I highly recommend to get all your bills in email. Do everything on the internet. Branden trucks for post office will be late by days and you will get charged late fees for credit cards or utilities if you depend on Branden post office trucks.

    • 0 avatar
      28-Cars-Later

      No junta fan but that’s really not what is happening here. They sent a nastygram to USPS leadership, that’s it. Chair Mallory as far as I can tell is an advisor to the office of president and does not have the power to issue orders. Though these days who has the power to do what is a grey area, rule of law seeming to be in the rearview mirror and all.

  • avatar
    MitchConner

    Biden’s a stupid old fool who needs to resign and have his mail forwarded to a senior center.

  • avatar
    SoCalMikester

    all this hate on biden… yet not a single inquiry. meanwhile, the lawyers have lawyers trying to downplay the homegrown terrorist attack on 1/6. nbd, right?

    • 0 avatar
      28-Cars-Later

      That’s easy when you’re doing the bidding of your backers who largely control all of what you describe. Really as simple as this:

      Afghanistan 2021: 80 billion in equipment left for a terrorist organization, the nation humiliated and some Americans left behind meets with slight criticism from State Media and no inquiry AFAIK.

      Trump Impeachment 2019: The implication a sitting president supposedly asked another nation to investigate a political rival, when that political rival was a member of the previous administration where their State Dept. instigated a coup in said nation and he personally was on the ground there taped on CSPAN bragging about blackmailing the then government of said country about removing a prosecutor investigating earlier misdeeds. The result? Metaphoric crucifixion by State Media and a resulting House impeachment and subsequent Senate trial.

      Is it really so hard to put together what’s been happening?

      • 0 avatar
        FreedMike

        @28:

        Afghanistan was going to be a dumpster fire no matter who gave the order to get out. You really think the last administration would have done a better job? I don’t.

        • 0 avatar
          28-Cars-Later

          I do since the bar is set about as low as it can go… only lower I can think of would be to surrender the USA to the Taliban.

          I also want to know why the 80 billion in freebies was not destroyed by airpower after the pull out. Really appears the Pentagon or elements within wanted to *arm* the Taliban for future use in the region (or the Taliban smuggle arms to other US controlled mujahideen which effectively launders the transfer leaving the Pentagon clean).

        • 0 avatar
          Art Vandelay

          They did not make sound tactical decisions (such as where to run the evacuation from) and they planned for a “best case scenario” that in every Officer training event I ever attended was portrayed as the mother of all eff ups.

          It could have and should have gone much better.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            “It could have and should have gone much better.”

            Yet it didn’t. So human error/SNAFU, intentional from above, perhaps both? Why was this huge f**kup memory holed by State Media within two weeks of the event? Why is there no inquiry when an elected president was dragged though mud and impeached over phone calls?

    • 0 avatar
      jkross22

      I agree on the hate of Biden. It’s not right to hate on someone who’s clearly in significant mental decline. He’s not all there.

      As for this issue with the USPS, it seems as though the USPS has been treated like a pinata at a Quincenera for some time. Maybe we should, you know, properly fund it. We seem to have plenty of money to go to war.

      • 0 avatar
        28-Cars-Later

        I disagree, he and everyone around him knew he wasn’t up to the task and they did it anyway. Just as every “voter” knew he wasn’t able and would likely not last four years. Possibly the worst ticket ever, or at least in the last 80 years, but yet 81 million “votes” and here we are screwed. So I’m gonna have a drink and chill but if people want to hate, there are a lot of morons who do deserve it.

        I agree with your second point, just look at the proxy war rematch in Ukraine – a country which has NOTHING to do with the US or it’s people’s best interest. But 81 million “voters” hate peace and prefer the country in shambles while Kissinger’s disciples play The Grand Chessboard on the Ostfront.

        • 0 avatar
          jkross22

          @28, I agree, it was the worst ticket since Jimmy Carter.

          We’re a country full of people scared of their own shadows and pissed off at people who disagree. We want courageous leaders but have no courage to vote for courageous leaders. No clue how to exit the loop.

          For examples of courage, look to Canadian truckers.

          Re: Ukraine, it’s the same manipulation that’s occurred many times in the last several decades. Convince people that there’s some threat (often exaggerated or flat out lied about) and we have to fight the evil. Covid, Iraq, Afghanistan, Gulf of Tonkin, War on Christmas, war on drugs, anti-vaxxers, racists, weekend golfers and on and on and on.

          Get people an enemy, rile them up, blame them for all ills and then attack.

          Wash, rinse, repeat

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            Carter/Mondale in 1976 was better than Mondale/Ferraro in 1984 and both were better than Brandon/Kameltoe in 2020 which should say a lot in and of itself. Yet proles are hypnotized to “vote” no matter what the party decides… I mean WTF. That’s why I couldn’t understand Hillary/Kaine in 2016, they literally said f*** you dims its Hitlery the warmonger for you and many sheeple still lined up for the BOHICA. That’s really the issue, the entire process is very centralized either from the word go or from early on in caucusing, so you end up with Hillary/Kaine or would have had Cruz/whomever if not for the disruptive force of Trump. I don’t believe for a second Hillary beat Bernie in 2016 with no grassroots support and hatred of much of the nation (also see: Brandon’s Senate run in 2020).

            The Canadian trucker situation is interesting, and the erstwhile leader of Canada is still nowhere to be found AFAIK. I do hope he is eventually arrested by the Canadian authorities and this technocratic covid coup they brought upon Canadians is exposed.

            I agree with your last points, I want no further war but Ukraine really? Its almost a game of Mad Libs, “which country threatens the US the least”. Ukraine! We would have also accepted Estonia.

    • 0 avatar
      EBFlex

      “the homegrown terrorist attack on 1/6.”

      Oh god not this lie again lololol. “tErRoRiSt AtTaCk”. I think Norm MacDonald put it best:

      “I loved when the violent terrorists made sure to respect the velvet ropes in Statuary Hall”.

      But you go ahead and believe your delusion. Jan 6 was a peaceful protest. Calling it anything else is on the same level of lies as “masks, vaccines, lockdowns work”

      • 0 avatar
        jkross22

        EB, it’s the narrative. Repeat it often enough and it supercedes truth.

        Who is Ray Epps?

        • 0 avatar
          EBFlex

          Oh absolutely. Just like with the covid cold as you pointed out earlier.

          Both sides need these made up crisis’ to keep us from seeing what they are up to. It’s all a distraction. As soon as they really started to lose people with the covid sniffles, they magically made up a new crisis with Ukraine. The knew yet another made up variant wouldn’t work so they shifted gears.

          The depressing part is that we keep falling for it. The amount of people that blindly believe whatever the government tells them (even just in TTACs comments) is astounding.

          And Ray Epps? Well now, we can’t let that information out can we? We need to hold the Jan 6 visitors that were identified in blurry photos in solitary confinement but Ray Epps? Weird nobody has any information on him. Weird.

  • avatar

    Workhorse lost due to the fact they could not even produce 100 workable vehicles. They were even under investigation for inflating production claims. What choice did the post office have? Workhorse is no more viable than Nikola.

    Fortunately, the post office did not fall for this Ponzi scheme.

    Why does policy agenda always mask the facts.

  • avatar
    bd2

    While EV may work for urban/suburban routes, can’t exactly see it working for rural routes, but those should be hybrid.

  • avatar
    watersketch

    This is exactly why few companies want to build vehicles for the US government. One administration puts up the specs, selects a vendor and then the next administration changes the specs and talks about redoing the selection.

  • avatar
    dwford

    I’m going to guess that one reason the USPS went with gas trucks is so that they didn’t have to spend the money putting in charging stations at every post office in the country.

  • avatar
    bullnuke

    The usage of EV postal vehicles makes a great deal of sense – this is what EVs should be used for. With a large fleet of 150,000, this will be an excellent test of what they can/can’t do and what they should/shouldn’t be expected to do.

  • avatar
    ToolGuy

    “Oshkosh trucks average 8.6 mpg while the older Grummans average 8.2 mpg.”

    That right there is awesome.

  • avatar
    ToolGuy

    Before you ask, this is what’s missing from your garbage truck:
    https://www.mdpi.com/1996-1073/8/10/10636/htm

  • avatar
    sgeffe

    Someone’s gonna go postal over this, especially if their view doesn’t get a stamp of approval!

    I’m here all week: remember to serve your tipper!

  • avatar

    I reckon that the most environmentally friendly way to deliver letters is to use pigeon post.

  • avatar

    Lets get drones to deliver the mail.

  • avatar
    Da Coyote

    The Biden administration and real engineering? Science? Third grade math?
    Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah!

  • avatar
    wolfwagen

    “That now appears to be changing because the Biden administration and Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) have asked USPS to hold off on the $11.3 billion contract with Oshkosh so electric options can be reevaluated.”

    Going all-electric will make that 11.3 Billion contract balloon probably double if not quadruple by the time you add in all the needed USPS facility/ infrastructure improvements.

    How much money does the USPS generate? Oh, that’s right, They didn’t. They had an operating loss as they have for every year since 2006. And it is billions every year.

    • 0 avatar
      bullnuke

      That’ll be another test for a large fleet of EVs – infrastructure. My local USPS might not be too bad as the local fleet of LLVs is only 4 or 5 vehicles serving an area of maybe 12k residents – the majority of my county is served by rural delivery drivers using personal vehicles. The local Post Office will probably not need a large electrical upgrade for charging their fleet. Larger markets may have some issues with this.

  • avatar
    tylanner

    EVs are the right solution for USPS and now is the right time.

    It’s going to be a challenge to convince everyone that quieter, more efficient, more reliable and cheaper mail vehicles are actually better but that is the mission…kicking and screaming.

    • 0 avatar
      bullnuke

      I’d hold off on the “more reliable and cheaper” until the results are in.

    • 0 avatar
      Oberkanone

      Explain where the USPS will get the money for EV?

      USPS lost 8.9 $Billion in 2019. USPS has over 150 $Billion in unfunded liabilities including pension and health care.

      Postal Service requires $3.3 Billion additional to purchase EV instead of ICE vehicles and $3.4 Billion additional for infrastructure to power charge the EV fleet. The entire annual revenue for USPS is $77 annual. They are negative balance sheet year over year.

  • avatar
    slavuta

    Here is the link – failed gov programs
    https://www.bankableinsight.com/federal-programs-that-failed-miserably.html

    Postal service listed #1

    Here is the link for Government is good – list of programs

    http://www.opportunityinstitute.org/blog/post/government-is-good-the-forgotten-achievements-of-government/

    Although, funny, with today’s data, many of these good government programs are failures

    Bottom line – [nearly] everything government touches….turns bad

  • avatar
    kcflyer

    Oshkosh “hey we don’t have an EV to compete in your EV competition but we are a huge defense contractor with years of campaign donations to our name so just because we are telling you we may not be able to produce an EV give us this EV contract worth Billions anyway.”

    U.S. Government ” Um, OK”

    Oshkosh ” hey we can’t make EV’s, you know, like we said we couldn’t”

    U.S. Government ” Um , OK just sell us a gas truck, then we will ask the taxpayers for more billions for the EV’s we already paid you for.

  • avatar
    ToolGuy

    If you have nothing better to do:
    https://www.greatbusinessschools.org/usps-long-life-vehicle/

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