By on October 11, 2021

Image: Gabe Ets-Hokin

Remember that scene in the famed 1968 shoot-em-up Bullitt where Lieutenant Bullitt, after surviving a harrowing car chase up and down the streets of San Francisco, a chase that ended in the fiery deaths of some black-suited bad guys in a Dodge, went and picked up his Saint Bernards from the dog groomer and then took his daughter and her boyfriend to lacrosse practice in his four-door Mustang GT crossover electric vehicle?

You don’t remember it (unless you regularly attend Phish concerts) because Ford has never built a four-door ‘Stang before the Mach-E, and it certainly has never built an all-wheel drive pony car, and for the love of Pete, ‘ol Henry’s namesake most certainly has never built such a thing with the “GT” moniker, the label it reserves for its most throaty, hairy-chested, terrifying torque-monster of a street ‘n strip muscle car. 

Until now of course. I submit the Mustang Mach-E GT, pumping out a gajillion horsepower and a bazillion lb-ft. o’ torque, and what has two giant thumbs and got to drive such a device on his favorite Northern California backroads? This guy.

(Full Disclosure: Ford hosted me at a swanky resort and stuffed me with as much food and booze as I could safely absorb in 20 hours. I also received a ballcap (which I will give to my friend Al) and a nice notebook that I wrote about three pages of notes in and then added to my growing collection of nice notebooks with three pages of notes each.

Ford’s Mustang Mach-E GT team invited the motor press to come and learn about the new model and drive it on the stellar roads north of San Francisco, in rustic West Marin county as well as a jaunt at an autocross set up on the old Alameda Naval Air Station on the other side of the Bay. The purpose of the junket was to not only show off the characteristics of the souped-up EV but to also relate how Ford will improve the EV experience and jump into the electric future.

There aren’t a lot of cosmetic changes to the GT models (which come in base and Performance Edition trims). They both get 20-inch wheels that are one inch wider than the other Mach-Es (245/45R20), and the  Performance sits 10mm lower and has machined-face wheels with specially developed Pirelli summer tires. Both cars get red-painted Brembo calipers, and there’s a palette of bold color choices in case you really like talking to police officers.

Image: Gabe Ets-Hokin

There are some nice surprises inside, though. The cars get special interiors with sport-contour front seats and aluminum dash appliqué. The seating material isn’t leather, but Active-X and Miko, which are apparently better than leather and should make vegans (and cows) happy. The seats include metallic stitching and the Performance comes with perforated material, but though the seats have standard heaters, there is no cooling option. Aside from the metal scuff plates on the doorframes with “GT” logos, the GT’s interior is much the same as the Premium Mach-E’s.

The big differences are in the hardware and software. The GT is only available with the 88 kWh battery and AWD, but the batteries have been “enhanced” to enable more power. A lot more power, in fact — there’s a roughly 30 percent boost in power, from 346 horsepower in the standard AWD to 480 in the GT. Torque goes up to 600 lb-ft., 634 in the Performance (the extra torque is in the front motor, Future Electric Vehicles Program Director Dave Pericak told us). The Performance gets an additional drive mode, Unbridled Extend, that allows more battery cooling for high-performance operation, specific AWD tuning to allow for unique front/rear weight bias, different traction control, and even enhanced feedback sound. 

Image: Gabe Ets-Hokin

What it means is Ford claims the GT can go 0-60 in 3.8 seconds (3.5 ticks for the Performance) — a claimed tie with the Tesla Model Y Performance. Estimated range sinks down to 235 miles, just 30 more than the standard-range rear-wheel drive, and in actual use, it’ll be much less than that until you get bored with blasting off of stoplights and increasing-radius turns like John freakin’ Glenn.

It’s not just about more power. The Performance gets MagneRide suspension on all four corners. What’s MagneRide, you ask? I asked Dave Pericak that, and before my mind wandered off into ADD land, I think he explained that the dampers are filled with metallic fluid (the technical term is “magnetorheological,” which should be said in a Sean Connery accent for maximum enjoyment) that reacts to computer-controlled magnets to alter its viscosity and therefore control damping and rebound speeds.

Image: Gabe Ets-Hokin

Why is this better than the standard orifices and fluids of an old-timey suspension? MagneRide’s electronics can make damping changes up to once per millisecond, which means the suspension can perfectly adapt to road speed, surface condition, temperature, and fluid degradation. Please don’t tell Dave MagneRide was developed by Delphi when it was a GM subsidiary.

Ford also wanted to let us know about EV stuff in general. First, the blue, ovoid people say they are all in with the EV stuff — they have three new battery plants with 45 gigawatt-hours of capacity each (an $11-billion commitment) and have partnered with Redwood Materials to figure out how to recycle used battery packs. 

Image: Gabe Ets-Hokin

Ford also wants its customers to experience “effortless” charging, whether at home or away. The Mach-E comes with a charge plug that is either level one or 32-amp level two (which allows 20 miles of additional range per hour of charging), a nice advantage over most included car chargers. Away from home, there’s the Blue Oval charger network, which includes Greenlots and Electrify America to give its customers access to 63,000 charge plugs at 19,500 stations nationwide.

Image: Gabe Ets-Hokin

How many of those are actually working or unoccupied at any given time is hazy, of course, but Battery Electric Vehicle General Manager Darren Palmer told us Ford has a dual commitment to its customers: “We’re going to grow the network and we’re going to … audit the customer experience,” which may (or may not) give desperate non-Tesla EV owners hope that a cross-country EV road trip can be completed without it turning into a real-life version of the popular video game “Oregon Trail.”

We’ve provided ample driving impressions of the Mach-E in prior stories, so I’ll focus on the extra power, beefed-up brakes, and Performance Edition suspension and handling. You’re probably not surprised to hear the extra juiciness makes the car insanely fun, (especially on an autocross track) but it wasn’t what I expected. The last insane-speed car I drove was the Lexus IS 500, and I loved the way the power built and how the midrange hit you like a lightly padded polo mallet. The GT’s power, on the other hand, is less dramatic, if no less impressive. It gave me the confidence to make passes I’d usually only try with a fast motorcycle. Downhill, uphill, mid-turn — it doesn’t matter. Stomp the pedal and you’re gone.

But the GT is a heavy car at 4,962 pounds (the PE is 4,989) and no amount of power, weight-bias balance, and high-tech suspension can mask that. Those cool-looking Brembos seem to do the trick, and all the software worked well together to make the car fun and easy to drive, but it’s such a workout to get through tight, twisty, bumpy roads that it made me wonder if that wasn’t the origin of the term “muscle car.” The MagneRide and lower ride height on the Performance made for noticeably better handling, with less bouncing and body roll, but both iterations of the GT still felt like what they are — big crossovers, not nimble sports coupes or sedans. That sound system, tho…

Image: Gabe Ets-Hokin

The Mustang Mach-E GT starts at $59,900 and goes up to $68,395 if you want the panorama glass roof (you do). After tax credits and other incentives, it gets down into the low $50Ks.

“A $51,000 car that outperforms every one of my childhood hero cars” gushed Darren Palmer. Not a bad point, but so is the Model Y Performance. I liked this car a lot and even took it home to see if it would fit in my garage (it did, barely). It’s just $4,000 more than the Premium extended battery AWD, which makes it a bargain compared to that car, but not compared to the $36,000 (after incentives) Select, which is a pretty nice car and has a similar range.

Some of us here at TTAC think the Mustang Mach-E isn’t a real Mustang, while some of us do. I won’t cast my lot with either side, but if the Mach-E is a real Mustang, the GT is a real GT, a big, powerful, comfortable, and good-handling car that will reward an engaged driver with its thoughtful development and fun driving characteristics. If I wanted that kind of power out of an EV I’d seriously consider it the next time I want to chase a Dodge Challenger over Potrero Hill.

[Images © 2021 TTAC/Gabe Ets-Hokin]

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153 Comments on “2021 Ford Mustang Mach-E GT First Drive – What’s Wrong With a Four-Door Muscle Car?...”


  • avatar
    kjhkjlhkjhkljh kljhjkhjklhkjh

    I think my #1 issue is the low ET’s over a 1/4 mile .. it is just way to high. The focused on the shiny 0-60 metric … and then walked away.

    • 0 avatar
      dukeisduke

      Maybe someone will strip and cage one, and take it down the quarter-mile, like the Tesla Model S Plaid that ran in the events of Rocky Mountain Race Week 2.0, last month. The Plaid was able to rip off consistent times in the low nines. The guy towed a diesel genset on a trailer from event to event, and used that to charge the battery pack (that turned out to be a story in itself, at the link on DragZine below). The owner is Cheyenne “Uncle Chet” Lord, from Arizona.

      https://www.dragzine.com/news/can-a-tesla-plaid-complete-rocky-mountain-race-week/

    • 0 avatar
      Luke42

      The torque curves of an electric motor are very different from ICE vehicles. In an EV, you get full torque at 0 RPM and it peters out as you accelerate.

      The low 0-60 time is basically free if you eliminate the complexity/weight/cost of a transmission (and upsize the electric motor). The marketing people just go crazy with this, while failing to explain the engineering-business justification for what amounts to a cost-cutting measure. [Shrug]

      High-speed performance is not free on EVs, though. Electric torque peters out a high speed.

      But this stuff only really matters in a dedicated drag race car. In a street car, both ICE and EV drivetrains are competent when properly implemented. I happen to love every EV (and most hybrids) I’ve ever driven, due to the silent smooth power at typical street speeds.

  • avatar
    dukeisduke

    In the film “Bullitt”, Frank Bullitt was a detective, but he was Lieutenant Frank Bullitt, not Detective Frank Bullitt.

  • avatar
    Steve Biro

    This vehicle still doesn’t work for me. It’s not a Mustang. Ford and it’s apologists can can insist it is and say whatever they like. We’re getting an all-electric crossover because that’s what Ford is selling right now. If anyone likes this car and buys it, more power to ’em. It’s your life, your choice. But it’s still not a Mustang.

    • 0 avatar

      Correct. But consumers are DESPERATE to look cool, so the marketing team had a very easy job here.

      • 0 avatar
        Johnster

        You’re right. It’s a decent vehicle for what it is and it even appears to offer surprisingly good performance. But, it’s not really a Mustang.

        It sort of reminds me of the Mercury Cougar Villager station wagon (which really wasn’t a Cougar), but with much better handling and performance.

    • 0 avatar
      legacygt

      In this debate you don’t find anyone being honest. Ford doesn’t believe this is a Mustang either. But Ford looked at its recent past and sees it littered with nameplates that failed to resonate with the public. Five-hundred>500>Taurus. Freestyle>Taurus X. Flex. Fiesta. Even the Focus and Fusion are done. The Edge remains but I’d say that it’s name recognition has to be around the bottom of the barrel for mid-sized crossovers. So Ford is bad at rolling out new names and they are clearly gun shy. The Bronco Sport is not a Bronco and the Mustang Mach E is not a Mustang. But they developed decent cars and they don’t trust themselves to develop and promote new names. So they tack on names that already have some name recognition. In this case, the Mustang brand gets diluted a bit but they figured they’re willing to pay that price to ensure that their excellent EV gets noticed.

    • 0 avatar
      SCE to AUX

      What *is* a Mustang?

      Please offer a definition that includes the turds of the 60s and 70s.

      • 0 avatar
        Lou_BC

        I personally don’t care whether or not the Mach-E is a Mustang or not but I did find this interesting, “Automobiles in general are a good subject for the study of branding because the car itself changes every year, but the brand does not. Over time, specific brands become associated with particular attributes, in terms of product category, positioning, price, and in the case of cars their styling, design and the lifestyle attributes that are associated with that vehicle.”
        Bartleby Research

        One can therefore argue that the Mach-E is not in keeping with the core associated attributes of the Mustang brand.
        On the other hand , “the car itself changes every year, but the brand does not. ”
        Was the anemic 70’s era Mustang II a real Mustsng?
        Does one say that the large late 60’s into early 70’s bloated Mustangs are not true to the core brand?

      • 0 avatar
        tonycd

        SCE, your “what IS an Mustang?” defense of this pseudo-Tesla is bullsh!t. By that standard, the 190-hp malaise slugs of the 1970s disqualify the Corvette. We know what’s a Cadillac despite the Cimarron, what a Porsche is despite the Cayenne Diesel, and we know this isn’t a Mustang by any modern definition. It’s not a bad car, it’s just not a Mustang, and you know it.

        • 0 avatar
          mcs

          @tonycd: You seem to be a little confused. It is a Mustang. A Mustang isn’t defined by the number of doors. It has Mustang styling cues of a Mustang and more importantly, its maker has decided it’s a Mustang.

          ” Not in sound, not in feel, not in look”

          Sound doesn’t define a Mustang. I’ve driven plenty of cars that the supercharger drowns out the ICE. Superchargers sound closer to EVs than they do ICEs. Also, the car clearly has mustang styling cues. It has the sound and feel of a muscle car. Actually, there are CUVs that can out handle most classics muscle cars.

        • 0 avatar
          SCE to AUX

          @tonycd:

          “By that standard, the 190-hp malaise slugs of the 1970s disqualify the Corvette.”

          On the contrary, I would include those slugs, but you want to disqualify the Cimarron and Cayenne Diesel from the badges they wear.

          I’m asking what *your* standard is for a Mustang. Seems like your argument is really with Tesla.

        • 0 avatar
          Luke42

          Would a Mustang still be a Mustang if an EV CUV could beat it on the track?

          That’s the question Ford had to be debating internally when they named the Mach-E.

      • 0 avatar
        dal20402

        The worst turd of a Mustang, relative to the overall market at the time, wasn’t in the ’60s or ’70s—it was the Fox four-cylinder by around 1989 or 1990, until the SN95 came along with two more desperately needed cylinders. Compared with similarly priced Japanese four-cylinder sport coupes it was an absolute embarrassment.

        • 0 avatar
          tonycd

          dal, I think you’d agree upon a recount that the very worst turd to wear the Mustang badge was the Pinto-based Mustang II. That thing made the Fox body look like a Ford GT by comparison.

      • 0 avatar
        Vulpine

        @SCE to AUX: “What *is* a Mustang? Please offer a definition that includes the turds of the 60s and 70s.”

        — Simply put, it’s a 2-door Sports Coupe (which in the early sixties was advertised as the WOMEN’S Sports Coupe.)

        This thing ain’t a Mustang because it’s got two too many doors.

    • 0 avatar
      tonycd

      Steve Biro nails the problem with this story: Its headline is a lie and a pathetic attempt to change the subject.

      Nobody would say the Panamera is not a Porsche because it has four doors, and that’s because in all other regards it IS a Porsche. Nobody is suggesting that the main reason this isn’t a Mustang is because it has four doors. It’s because what’s behind those doors isn’t a “muscle car” in any way except measured acceleration. Not in sound, not in feel, not in look. It’s a Tesla SUV with Mustang badges.

      I won’t say your mom isn’t a wonderful person. I’m sure she is. But if you call her Beyonce, I’m gonna call bullsh!t, and I’m calling it on Ford and TTAC here.

      • 0 avatar
        mcs

        “Nobody would say the Panamera is not a Porsche because it has four doors, ”

        Lots of people say it’s not a Porsche. Plenty of people say a 928 isn’t a Porsche. I remember people complaining that the 308 wasn’t a Ferrari because it didn’t have a 12. I don’t understand people getting hung up over branding or politics rather than just enjoying the car. If ford has somehow caused damage to you by calling the Mach-E a Mustang, take them to court for damages. Maybe the same attorney can file another suit for you when GM produces the Corvette version of the Lyriq.

      • 0 avatar
        SCE to AUX

        @tonycd:

        “Nobody is suggesting that the main reason this isn’t a Mustang is because it has four doors.”

        That’s the precise reason I’d say it isn’t a Mustang. Every “Mustang” before it had 2 doors.

        Your claim boils down to the type of fuel it uses.

        • 0 avatar
          LectroByte

          >Every “Mustang” before it had 2 doors.

          Nah, a lot of them had 3 doors, the II’s and Foxes. A Mustang is basically whatever Ford wants it to be.

          • 0 avatar
            Vulpine

            @LectroByte: “Nah, a lot of them had 3 doors, the II’s and Foxes. A Mustang is basically whatever Ford wants it to be.”
            — Nope. A “Liftback” (old school ‘hatchback’) is not a ‘door’ it was a cover. A Mustang has never been a 3-door vehicle but it has had its ‘hatchback’ models from the old Mustang II and up, along with its ‘notchback’ models.

            A Mustang may be what Ford wants it to be but it’s the consumer that decides if it’s worthy of the name. I think Ford’s about to find out that the E is not worthy of the Mustang name.

        • 0 avatar
          tonycd

          SCE, you say “your claim (that this isn’t a Mustang) boils down to the type of fuel it uses.”

          The words you’re putting in my mouth are not accurate ones.

          Taking your dare to define a Mustang, most people who love and buy Mustangs associate them with a set of cues:

          •A two-door coupe configuration

          •A low-slung shape with a long hood and fastback rear deck

          •Distinctive large headlights, usually round, in recessed enclosures

          •A vertical recessed fake air intake below the rear quarter window or pillar

          •Vertical-shaped triple taillights.

          •A muscle car demeanor, which includes the sound and NVH characteristics as well as the acceleration stats of a V8 engine with a rather loud and unrestrictive exhaust system.

          This car is missing every single one of these cues. Its headlights look more like a Fiesta. Its flanks are sculpted more like a Mazda CX-5. Its sound is more like a Tesla. Its shape is more like an RDX. All the arguments that it’s Mustang-like because its acceleration is Tesla-like are utterly irrelevant.

          The argument in favor of this being a Mustang is exactly the same as the argument in favor of the Cadillac Catera: “Its maker says it is, therefore it is. And to you who say it isn’t, its maker has done this before and therefore it is.”

          No. It isn’t.

          • 0 avatar
            mcs

            @tonycd

            “Taking your dare to define a Mustang, most people who love and buy Mustangs associate them with a set of cues”

            Actually, the Mach-E Mustang outsells the coupe, so most people buying a Mustang seem to like the 4 door CUV thing.

            “A low-slung shape with a long hood and fastback rear deck”

            There’s a long history of notchback Mustangs. Are they excluded?

            “Distinctive large headlights, usually round, in recessed enclosures”

            The SVO Mustang had flush headlight covers and wasn’t recessed along with other fox body Mustangs

            “A vertical recessed fake air intake below the rear quarter window or pillar”

            From 1970 to 1993 I think, it disappeared. So you’d have to rule out those Mustangs.

            “•Vertical-shaped triple taillights.”

            Mach-E has those, but plenty of Fox bodies didn’t.

            “A muscle car demeanor, which includes the sound and NVH characteristics as well as the acceleration stats of a V8 engine with a rather loud and unrestrictive exhaust system.”

            Plenty of Mustangs didn’t meet that definition right from the 64.5 start.

            Look, every performance car brand is being put on some sort of CUV. It’s a thing now. Porsche did it. Lamborghini has done it, Alfa, Maserati, Ferrari, and even Lotus. Soon we’ll see a Corvette CUV as well. It’s the way the car market is now.

            “Vertical-shaped triple taillights.”

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            @mcs

            Please stop spreading lies that “the Mach-E Mustang outsells the coupe”.

            Per GCBC 47,637 Mustangs were sold in USDM in 2021 to this point. Per cleantechnia 15,832 Not Mustangs were sold in USDM through September. 45,800 Not Mustang units were produced but exported nearly 2:1 to Ford Europe with an estimated 2,600 being available in USDM in various states of transport and inventory. 2021 *global* sales of Not Mustang have still not surpassed 2021 USDM sales of the Mustang in all trims.

            Please check your brainwashing a tad.

            https://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2021-us-muscle-car-sales-figures/

            Ford is exporting the bulk of them:

            Production of the Ford Mustang Mach-E for the global markets decreased last month to 5,353, but overall, it remains relatively strong and stable.

            So far this year, already over 45,800 units were produced (over 52,500 cumulatively).

            The difference between the number of cars produced and sales in the U.S. indicates that most of the cars were sent to Europe.

            Meanwhile 2600 units are floating around currently in the USDM:

            The gross stock of Mach-E is at about 2,600 in the U.S. (at dealerships and in transport, we assume). That’s less than in July (3,000).

            While the latest monthly sales were just under 1,500 units:

            Unfortunately, sales of the all-electric Ford Mustang Mach-E amounted to 1,448 units (1.2% of Ford’s total result), which is the lowest level since its market launch.

            https://insideevs.com/news/530606/us-ford-mache-sales-august2021/

            And only 16K units have been sold this year in USDM:

            There have been 15,832 sold in the U.S., while international sales figures have not yet been released.

            https://cleantechnica.com/2021/08/25/are-ford-mustang-mach-e-production-deliveries-tracking-at-tesla-model-3-y-levels

            Ford only has a few hundred dealers in Europe, the bulk of which are in the UK:

            Up to 180 of the 400 dealers in the UK, Ford’s biggest market in Europe, are at risk of closure, the Auto Retail Agenda newsletter reported last month.

            https://europe.autonews.com/automakers/ford-plans-sweeping-dealer-closures-accelerate-europe-rebound

            But has just over 3,000 dealers in the US

            There are 3,005 Ford locations in the United States as of September 20, 2021

            https://www.scrapehero.com/location-reports/Ford%20Motor%20Company-USA

            Yet they are exporting this nearly 2:1 and allegedly snubbing orders from up to 3,000 US dealers in favor of a few hundred in Europe? Oh and this while having 2,600 units unsold in USDM, about 45 days supply of last month’s sales?

            https://www.reddit.com/r/UpliftingNews/comments/pwtawz/comment/helwwrp/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

          • 0 avatar
            mcs

            @28cars: I checked actual Ford numbers and you are correct.

      • 0 avatar
        Vulpine

        @Tonycd: “Nobody would say the Panamera is not a Porsche because it has four doors, and that’s because in all other regards it IS a Porsche.”

        — It’s a Porsche in the same manner that the MustangE is a Ford, but the Panamera is NOT a 911E, now is it?

        • 0 avatar
          el scotto

          @Vulpine -smirking- you never had a lady friend say “fold the seats down”. That’s when it became a 3rd door.

          • 0 avatar
            Vulpine

            @el scotto: I never owned a Mustang. I worked in the back seat of a Cutlass Supreme… when it wasn’t in a real bed.

        • 0 avatar
          mcs

          The key is that Ford has remade Mustang into a multivehicle brand. F-Series, now Mustang-Series. Surprised they haven’t combined the sales numbers yet.

          “Nobody would say the Panamera is not a Porsche because it has four doors”

          Oh, they’re definitely out there. There are even people out there that will say the 996 wasn’t a Porsche.

          For a look back at the sort of branding move Ford has done, here’s an old Bob Lutz interview:

          https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a28266580/chevrolet-corvette-suv-render/

          • 0 avatar
            tonycd

            mcs, your point-by-point rejection of every attribute carbuyers associate with the Mustang brand is a transparent exercise in intellectual dishonesty.

            To prove it, let’s accept your claim that NOT ONE of the several traits I named has Mustang associations for buyers. Then there are NO traits that make a car “Mustang-like,” except that Ford slaps a Mustang badge on the result? You’re free to accept that, but it doesn’t mean buyers will. Brands do have meaning for people, and as the VW Phaeton and Kia Stinger demonstrated, even good vehicles will be rejected if people see them as inconsistent with their brand attributes.

            That’s the whole point of brands, in any industry—they DO become recognized as having attributes. C’mon.

          • 0 avatar
            mcs

            “mcs, your point-by-point rejection of every attribute carbuyers associate with the Mustang brand is a transparent exercise in intellectual dishonesty.”

            Quoting a non-existant marketing study would be intellectual dishonesty. What are your sources. I’m quoting facts. Notchback Mustang was a fact. Missing side vents on Foxes, fact etc.

            Brands evolve. Manufacturers of a popular brand start putting it on other products. It happens for everything. Bob Lutz has been advocating a Corvette SUV for years and I’m sure he approves of Ford’s move.

    • 0 avatar
      namesakeone

      I wonder that even if we don’t see this as a Mustang; Ford may see it as THE Mustang of the future. The Mustang we all know and love–the four-seat coupe and convertible–TTBOMK is now the only RWD car platform in Ford’s international portfolio. Even though they move about 100,000 units a year, that cannot be profitable–or at least as profitable as they would like. Wouldn’t Ford like to have a Mustang–or something that they can call a Mustang–that sells in more acceptable levels, and shares componentry with something else in the lineup? Hence, the Mach-E, which is made electric to add a little excitement to the car, as well as diffuse some of us who are complaining, “That’s not a Mustang!” I wouldn’t be surprised to see this vehicle–even a non-electric version–eventually completely replacing the coupe and convertible. Ford is not selling heritage, Ford is (trying to) sell vehicles.

      • 0 avatar
        tonycd

        namesakeone, I think “something that they can call a Mustang” nails it.

        Ford painted themselves into a corner by killing off all their sedans in a desperate effort to pander to Wall Street speculators by claiming they were evolving from a carmaker into a high-tech “personal mobility” company. Except now, that leaves them with nothing for all the car buyers. So taking the remaining car badge and slapping it on new cars is a face-saving exercise for management. The poster who said “It’s a Ford” was correct. They just no longer dare to call it one.

      • 0 avatar
        el scotto

        @namesakeone Sir, four words about the Mustang surviving: William Clay Ford, Jr. As long as Billy Ford says there will be Mustangs, Ford will build Mustangs. I’m spitballing,aka too lazy to look it up, it seems the V-6 and V-8 sales split was 2/3 to 1/3. Same ration with the ecoboost and the V-8. Ford will stop building the Mustang right before it stops building the F-150.

  • avatar

    The Mach-E is branded as an SUV, so I’d argue it therefore cannot be a muscle car.

    Unless the Alpina XB7 is also a muscle car.

  • avatar
    Lie2me

    It’s just a name, this EV does not share one bolt with the *real* Mustang much like the Bronco Sport shares nothing with the Bronco. Ford has always been fast and furious with their storied names

    That being said I like this EV and when the time comes to go all electric this will probably be on my short list

    • 0 avatar
      dukeisduke

      I think the “Bronco Sport” cheapens the Bronco brand. What if Jeep branded the Renegade the “Wrangler Sport Unlimited”?

      • 0 avatar
        Lie2me

        Look what Ford did to Thunderbird, it went from flagship to mid-size, mid-priced basic car and they sold a poop-ton of them

        • 0 avatar
          dukeisduke

          Ah, but they were still coupes and convertibles (okay, the later Fox body cars are technically sedans, since they have a post), and not CUVs or SUVs.

        • 0 avatar
          Vulpine

          @Lie2me: “Look what Ford did to Thunderbird, it went from flagship to mid-size, mid-priced basic car and they sold a poop-ton of them”

          — What is your definition of “Flagship”? In Navy parlance, it means the vessel the fleet commander rides, which is usually the biggest and supposedly the safest ship in the unit, whether that be a carrier group or some other combat group.

          The Thunderbird started out as one of their smallest vehicles, a little roadster, NOT a luxury car. Even so, it remained a two-door model through most of its life, even when it grew up to be a “Personal Luxury Car.” If the Thunderbird ever had a 4-door model, I honestly don’t remember it. And I’m not quite certain it was ever considered a “mid-size, mid-priced basic car,” either.

          • 0 avatar
            mcs

            “If the Thunderbird ever had a 4-door model, I honestly don’t remember it.”

            https://www.hemmings.com/stories/2014/06/25/hemmings-find-of-the-day-1969-ford-thunderbird

            It absolutely was the flagship. The top of the line. It shared parts with Lincolns and was built in Wixom with Lincolns. Power door locks and windows even in the mid 60’s. Power seats too.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            @mcs

            My mentor in college so desired one and passively looked for years. Something about it was the first car that “hit” him so to speak when he emigrated from communist Poland in the late 1960s.

      • 0 avatar
        Lou_BC

        @dukeisduke – There are those who feel that it does water down the core brand. Product association helps sell vehicles. I’m kinda surprised that Ford didn’t find a way to link the Maverick to the F-series or Ranger. Maverick Mustang anyone?

  • avatar
    Dan

    This is as much of a Mustang as the Probe and as much of a muscle car as those 00s V6 Camrys that ran 14s.

    And that’s entirely OK. Like a Tesla but less NPC androgynous is something the market has been sorely lacking.

  • avatar
    EBFlex

    With that headline, I was expecting to read about a Mustang, not an electric Escape.

    And it’s amazing that as poorly engineered and built as Teslas are, this is somehow worse. Range that is too short even with the “extended battery”, long recharge times, lack of an adequate charging network, etc.

    And who thought up the drive mode name “unbridled extend”? That person should be fired.

    • 0 avatar
      Lie2me

      We can always count on EBTroll to put a positive spin on anything Ford

      • 0 avatar
        Vulpine

        @Lie2me: “We can always count on EBTroll to put a positive spin on anything Ford”

        — Oh, I don’t know. I think I could do him one or two better, if given the chance. For instance, “I never owned a Ford I liked.” (Ba-da, Boomph) I’ve owned more Fords than I care to admit and not one of them was reliably trustworthy. In fact, they were all reliably UN-trustworthy!

        Which is really funny, because I am so tempted by the new Maverick, since it would be nearly three-feet shorter than my current mid-sized truck.

    • 0 avatar
      dukeisduke

      “Unbridled Extend” – These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease.

      Oof.

      • 0 avatar
        jalop1991

        Warning: Pregnant women, the elderly, and children under 10 should avoid prolonged exposure to Unbridled Extend.

        Caution: Unbridled Extend may suddenly accelerate to dangerous speeds.

        Unbridled Extend contains a liquid core, which, if exposed due to rupture, should not be touched, inhaled, or looked at.

        Do not use Unbridled Extend on concrete.

        Discontinue use of Unbridled Extend if any of the following occurs:

        itching
        vertigo
        dizziness
        tingling in extremities
        loss of balance or coordination
        slurred speech
        temporary blindness
        profuse sweating
        or heart palpitations

        If Unbridled Extend begins to smoke, get away immediately. Seek shelter and cover head.

        Unbridled Extend may stick to certain types of skin.

        When not in use, Unbridled Extend should be returned to its special container and kept under refrigeration. Failure to do so relieves the makers of Unbridled Extend, Wacky Products Incorporated, and its parent company, GlobalChemical Unlimited, of any and all liability.

        Ingredients of Unbridled Extend include an unknown glowing green substance which fell to Earth, presumably from outer space.

        Unbridled Extend has been shipped to our troops in Saudi Arabia and is being dropped by our warplanes on Iraq.

        Do not taunt Unbridled Extend.

        Unbridled Extend comes with a lifetime warranty.

        Announcer: Unbridled Extend! Accept no substitutes!

    • 0 avatar
      dal20402

      “electric Escape”

      It’s RWD with an underfloor battery providing most of the weight. An Escape is FWD with most of the weight way out front of the front wheels.

      I’m totally sick of the arguments over whether this is a “Mustang” or not, but one thing it clearly is not is an Escape.

      • 0 avatar
        jalop1991

        Is it a car that’s being marketed/sold as an SUV?

        Then it’s just another Escape. Electric, in this case.

        • 0 avatar
          dal20402

          Yes, every CUV is identical, and I’m very smart.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            So its a nicer Escape, I think that model is called Bronco Sport.

            Really in all seriousness this should have been introduced under the Bronco banner in the vein of the electric Hummer. Some people would bitch but because Bronco has been gone for so long there are plenty in the younger demographic who don’t know what one is and would gladly go along with an electric version. Those same people ***do*** know what a Mustang is and some amount of them are with us in “WTF Dearborn” category. Why create that category when you can just avoid it altogether?

            Mark my words Dearborn, the morons who came up with this are on the short bus to school and they will cost you dearly in the long term.

          • 0 avatar
            dukeisduke

            LMAO.

      • 0 avatar
        EBFlex

        ““electric Escape”

        It’s RWD with an underfloor battery providing most of the weight. An Escape is FWD with most of the weight way out front of the front wheels.

        I’m totally sick of the arguments over whether this is a “Mustang” or not, but one thing it clearly is not is an Escape.”

        I know facts bother you but it’s literally built on a reworked Escape platform.

        We could call it:

        Mach Maverick
        Mach Bronco Sport
        Mach Focus

        But Mach E(scape) just works because you keep the E. This is not hard to understand.

        And if you are sick of the arguments don’t read the comments. I am sick and tired of Ford ruining legendary nameplates because they can’t design a vehicle to stand on it’s own merits and must use the coattails of past vehicles to gin up interest and help it sell.

        • 0 avatar
          dal20402

          “reworked Escape platform”

          It’s not going to drive the slightest bit like an Escape. The drive wheels are different, the rear suspension is different, the weight is distributed differently, the proportions are different, and of course the powertrain is different.

          I suppose next you’re going to tell me that an ’85 Country Squire was an Escort. I mean, the door handles were the same part, so they must be the same car, right?

      • 0 avatar
        Vulpine

        @dal20402: You’re right. It’s not an “electric Escape,” it’s an Electric Explorer (or would that be, Exploder?)

        Either way, it doesn’t qualify for the marque it carries.

    • 0 avatar
      slavuta

      Last thing I want to have in my car – a computer monitor

      • 0 avatar
        28-Cars-Later

        Oh I wish, you can only get cheap looking Ipads in your car now.

        • 0 avatar
          slavuta

          If I need a small screen for the rear cam, so be it. But I definitely don’t want to slide over the monitor for any sort of control, like controlling volume or temperature. My round physical knobs and dials are perfect. I really like Mini, airplane style switches and toggles.. I they remove that, it is like take away a soul of that car.

  • avatar
    jack4x

    “‘A $51,000 car that outperforms every one of my childhood hero cars’ gushed Darren Palmer.”

    Nobody tell Mr. Palmer that a real Mustang GT, starting at just $36,285, will almost certainly also outperform any of his childhood hero cars.

    • 0 avatar
      dukeisduke

      Mr. Palmer needs some Unbridled Extend.

    • 0 avatar
      ajla

      Whenever the Mach-E comes up everyone acts like the normal Mustang stopped advancing in 1993.

    • 0 avatar
      28-Cars-Later

      Looks like we have Darren to thank for Not Mustang:

      “Previously, Darren Palmer was the Global Product Development Director for battery electric vehicles for Ford and Lincoln.

      Most recently Darren has been launching the first product in the portfolio, the Mustang Mach-E. A global product at the very forefront of the transition to Zero emission vehicles. Close behind are the launch of the Transit BEV and the F150 BEV. Both intended to be leaders in their respective fields.”

      https://www.linkedin.com/in/darren-palmer-43813512

      So of course Darren is going to blow himself over the lot poison they created, his *opinion* at the end is 100% irrelevant TTAC staff. Next, are you going to ask Lord Musk what he thinks of the Model Y? Gee I can’t wait for that answer!

      Darren – Hey pal keep the resume updated, m’kay. You may be looking for new employment in twelve months, because they will need a fall guy if it all goes south. Everything is hinging on the F150 BEV, your Not Mustang gambit looks like a fail.

      • 0 avatar
        EBFlex

        This idiot is the brainchild of a work van that has a laughable 125 mile range and developing a pathetic electric pickup that has a horrible range and ruins another legendary Ford nameplate?

        His position at Ford must have been his prize for winning a special olympics event or something.

        • 0 avatar
          JonathanEzor

          That “laughable 125 mile range” for the E-Transit is almost certainly more than enough for the vast majority of van operators, whose daily runs (per Ford’s analysis of 30 *million* miles of telematics data) average 74 miles. Just think of the Amazon and grocery and catering vans in an urban or suburban neighborhood. They do numerous short runs throughout the day, then park for the night in a garage or depot that almost certainly has electricity available, or at employees’ homes where an employer-subsidized charger can be installed. If I owned such a van-using business, and could save huge amounts of money over time on maintenance and fuel while easily meeting my daily mileage requirements, the e-Transit would be an easy decision.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            @JonathanEzor

            I agree, EV has some genuine commercial uses the only concern I would have as an operator is if my vans/trucks etc ever ran 18-24 hour shifts. Day-to-day 8-15 hour work then back to base though it makes a whole lot more sense.

  • avatar
    carguy

    Hindsight is 20/20. The original Mustang that purists love so much was a marketing exercise. Ford wanted to appeal to younger customers and modified an existing platform to make a car that resonated with a new generation.

    Fast forward fifty years and young buyers are more interested in Teslas than old school muscle cars and Ford once more is catering to a new demographic. Judging by the demand for the Mach-E, it a highly competitive product.

    I grew up in the 70s and 80s loving V8 rear drive cars but its also very clear to me that this era has passed. The nostalgia for yesteryear is nice but there is no point in living in the past. Bravo Ford for reinventing a classic name plate and looking forward instead of wallowing in faded past glories (I’m looking at you Chrysler).

    • 0 avatar
      ajla

      >No one cares about Mustangs anymore and nostalgia for the past is bad.

      >Put the Mustang name and styling cues on an unrelated CUV to help its market position.

      • 0 avatar
        ponchoman49

        Guess it depends where you live. Where I live I haven’t seen a single one of these featureless blobs on the road to date and even my Mustang buddies who range from their 20’s to 40’s don’t like it or think it deserves to be called a Mustang. But I live in a more traditional area with lots of car enthusiasts so obviously it won’t be representative of the whole. I would never buy one because being slammed into my seat by an electric motor isn’t appealing at all and besides that I don’t see anything attractive about this thing! Just being honest

    • 0 avatar
      Dave M.

      Well said. As a lifelong Mustang fan who remembers the excitement of the original, the E is merely brand extension and Ford hit a grand slam by tying the 2 not so dissimilar vehicles together. So. What. To me, the last itineration of the Mercury Cougar, Olds Cutlass, and Pontiac Lemans were far more egregious.

    • 0 avatar
      28-Cars-Later

      “Ford wanted to appeal to younger customers and modified an existing platform to make a car that resonated with a new generation”.

      Ah, no. Ford did something boneheaded to trigger Mustang buyers/aficionados for public attention which has backfired to this point. A Bronco EV would have made *so much* more sense and brought positive attention to the newly relaunched Bronco model line. A *real* Mustang accompanying the Bronco EV would have been even more positive press from *everyone*, not just fanboys and zealots. But then again common sense isn’t so common these days.

      “Judging by the demand for the Mach-E, it a highly competitive product.”

      Its really not at all, Ford/dealers are playing shell games.

      https://www.reddit.com/r/UpliftingNews/comments/pwtawz/comment/helwwrp/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

  • avatar
    MitchConner

    Back in 1998 I accepted a job with a San Francisco creative services agency on Union Square. The dot com boom was in full swing — and I needed a place closer to the office than the one I had in San Jose.

    There was very little housing available in the City itself — so I wound up renting a house on the edge of San Bruno Mountain near the SF / Daly City border. The place had an awesome view of the Pacific when I signed the lease — which disappeared in heavy fog 95% of the time. I’d go running through the park on top of the mountain. 60 degrees with solid wet fog on the west side. Sunny and a dry 80ish on the east side for about 5 minutes — with a view into Candlestick Park as well as the City and entire Bay Area — then back into the gloom.

    When I had meetings on the Peninsula and further down in Silicon Valley — I’d leave straight from the house. I’d take Guadalupe Canyon Parkway to cut over from 280 side of the hills to 101. While driving through there I always thought the surroundings looked like the tail end of the Bullitt chase scene (guy falls off motorcycle, guy blasting his shottie out the side window of the Charger, Charger and Mustang bashing into each other before the Charger flew off the road, blew up, and turned into a two man car-be-que).

    Curiosity finally got the best of me. Watched the movie again — and, yep, that was it. Best of all, it was an uncrowded, really fun road to drive in the over stuffed Bay Area (which is exponentially worse now).

    Built a house out in the East Bay when the lease was up — but always made a point to go through there when I could. Also found myself near Bay and Columbus streets from time to time — which is where the chase started. Then, during Fleet Week, I had a spot staked out on the Marina Green near the Safeway where the chase blew past at the mid-way point. The Blue Angels would fly over that area so low you could see writing on the pilot’s helmets. Great stuff. And my office in the early stages of my career was three or four blocks from Bullitt’s apartment on Taylor Street near the sketchy Tenderloin neighborhood. A few years ago I saw Nat Johnson playing bass in a bar in San Jose. He was in the band in the restaurant scene in San Francisco. Really cool guy. He was talking with other members of the band about getting together and producing a longer version of the song they played for the 50th anniversary of the movie. I offered to help promote on the PR front — but nothing ever happened. Here it is: https://bit.ly/3DtMagv

    As for the Mach-E being a Mustang — nah. Mustangs are two doors with rear wheel drive and an optional V8. This is just a line extension that doesn’t really fit in my book. I got to sit in the blue GT that debuted at the Los Angeles Auto Show a few years ago — and, boy, did the interior look cheap. I hope the production models are better than the prototype I saw.

    The specs look good. Hopefully, it’s a very successful product for Ford. Just wished they called it something else. Torino comes to mind as they’re on another nostalgia kick with the Maverick and Bronco. At least they made four door versions of those.

    ICEs are winding down. EVs are coming. Performance is performance. I don’t thumb my nose at EVs — even though their fanbois are as obnoxious as the Prius fanbois of yesteryear. Will miss a nice tuned exhaust note.

    • 0 avatar
      Lie2me

      Perhaps Ford could rig up an “exhaust” pipe with shooting lightning bolts and clapping thunder for effect

      Great story about San Francisco. The many times I’ve visited I never could get used to that hot/cold thing by turning a corner or the rolling fog that looked like some “B” sci-fi movie monster

    • 0 avatar
      28-Cars-Later

      “ICEs are winding down. EVs are coming. Performance is performance.”

      America is winding down. Tyranny is coming. Ignorance is strength.

  • avatar
    SCE to AUX

    That’s pretty terrible range.

  • avatar
    dal20402

    Anecdotally, around here (coastal city) I’m seeing far more of these than newer “real” Mustangs. I have a feeling that in these markets this car will redefine the Mustang name. Nobody around here much thought about Mustangs before the Mach E, and if they did think about Mustangs, it was to dismiss them as redneck cars.

    I disagree with that—I love the normal Mustang—but it was not a factor in this sort of market. The Mach E certainly is. I’m not seeing quite as many of them as Model Ys, but it’s close.

    • 0 avatar
      ajla

      “Nobody around here much thought about Mustangs before the Mach E, and if they did think about Mustangs, it was to dismiss them as redneck cars.”

      So if people in Seattle like the MachE in spite of the name and people in Joplin don’t like it because of the name then why use that name in the first place? Yea, it created a lot of debate on internet sites, but TTAC articles don’t necessarily mean much for Ford’s sales and profits.

      If it was called the Ford Orion instead would it be doing better, worse, or the same?

      • 0 avatar
        dal20402

        That’s a great question and it would be really interesting to see some research on it. If I had to guess, I’d guess the Mustang name isn’t making much difference but the “coupe”-ish styling is.

  • avatar
    ollicat

    I guess you can look cool driving for a few hours then have to call it a night as you recharge.

  • avatar
    NG5

    This car feels like the lights coming on at a party, no matter how good it is reported to be to drive. A 5,000lb Mustang egg is no car for me.

  • avatar
    28-Cars-Later

    Its not a muscle car. Its not a Mustang. Its being exported to Europe nearly 2:1 and as of September there was an inventory of 2,600 unsold units in USDM. The harder they pump this thing, the more it will fail.

  • avatar
    Superdessucke

    Nothing at all wrong with a 4-door muscle car. The 1968 Belvidere Police Pursuit, the 1969 Polara 440 interceptor which became a CHP legend, the 1984-85 LTD LX (ok, a weak one but it was a 4-door muscle car in the context of its time), the 1994-96 Impala SS, the 2003-04 Mercury Marauder, the 2009 G8 GXP, the 2004 CTS-V and its descendants, and of course the Scat Pack and Hellcat Chargers. All great cars, IMO.

    But this isn’t a 4-door muscle car. It’s an electric performance CUV. Not that there’s anything wrong with that. I personally have nothing against electric cars and don’t care much about the Mustang name issue (I mean, look at the Mustang II, c’mon). But this isn’t a 4-door muscle car, not by any definition. Doesn’t make it bad, that’s just not what it is.

    • 0 avatar
      N8iveVA

      “But this isn’t a 4-door muscle car, not by any definition. ”

      uh but it actually kind of is a 4 door muscle car. Just without the soundtrack.

    • 0 avatar
      Vulpine

      @Superdessuke: I have nothing against the Mach E being an electric OR a crossover; I have everything against its being called a Mustang, because that’s exactly what it is NOT.

  • avatar
    el scotto

    Ford should have just paid the money and call it the Futurama. I’ll take a Bender GT.

  • avatar
    Jeff S

    Don’t really care that this EV is not a Mustang it is nice enough and looks better than the Tesla EV crossover and many of the others. Might take at least a year to get a Mach E GT if you have to order one so might as well call it a 2023. Same with the Maverick by the time most of the orders arrive it will be 2023.

  • avatar

    Where is tachometer? Sports car without tachometer and manual transmission? Ford, what a disgrace!

    I also want air pressure in each wheel to be displayed front and center and also oil gauge on dashboard.

  • avatar
    downunder

    Nothing. Just ask the owners of Pontiac G8’s, Chevy SS’s, Falcon Xr6 & Xr8’s and HSV Commodores.

  • avatar
    Jeff S

    Pointless to have an oil gauge in EV and so would having a tachometer. What is the definition of a sports car with today’s ever changing market and technology? I doubt most of the buyers of EVs think of their vehicles as sports cars but they do notice and like the quicker acceleration.

  • avatar
    olddavid

    The only comment I can make is that I’m glad my term here is almost over. The only electric car I will ever drive again after my neighbor’s POS Tesla will be the cart I’m obliged to rent when playing Kananaskis. You’re right – we Boomers have f*#ked this up so badly it will be our great grandchildren who will end up fixing it for good. But, if electric cars whose juice comes from natural gas or coal is the solution………

    • 0 avatar
      dal20402

      Even an electric car entirely powered by smoky coal is close to twice as carbon-efficient as its gas equivalent. You can close a fair amount of that gap by hybridizing the gas car, but you can open it back up again by replacing the coal plant with anything else.

      • 0 avatar
        olddavid

        I am not a professional skeptic, but I would ask what is your source for statistics? You have seen the obvious when driving by a coal plant. How can that massive output possibly be offset by electric cars vis a vis an ULEV?

        • 0 avatar
          dal20402

          https://theicct.org/publications/global-LCA-passenger-cars-jul2021

          That big coal generator you see belching all that smoke in one place is considerably more efficient than small gasoline ICEs.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            I don’t even have to see data to agree, but I was under the impression coal was a sin in the global Green Religion and therefore was verboten.

          • 0 avatar
            dal20402

            The good thing about electric transport infrastructure is that, once it’s in place, you can make it greener just by replacing coal plants. (Ideally with a combination of nuclear and renewables, but even dino gas is an upgrade.)

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            I agree electric transport infrastructure is a wise use of the technology, its the supply I’m more concerned about since electricity isn’t exclusive to transport as petroleum (not to say petroleum isn’t in other industries). Just as EV has some real world commercial applications (delivery vehicles come to mind) but its not a one size fits all replacement for all ICE transport. Funny that’s never discussed.

    • 0 avatar
      Vulpine

      @olddavid: “But, if electric cars whose juice comes from natural gas or coal is the solution………”

      You do know that less than 60% of our electricity comes from coal/natural gas and less than 25% from coal itself, right? At least natural gas is cleaner than coal, but it still has a long ways to go, which is why Solar and Wind are growing so quickly. Where they used to have less than 10% of American generation, they’re closer to being on par with hydro at 17% each, with the rest being nuclear.

      The point? The juice ain’t all fossil-fuel generated any more and what is, emits far less pollutants than the individual vehicles for the same amount of energy used.

  • avatar
    mcs

    “And there are Ferraris without traditional manual transmissions. Are they a disgrace?”

    But, there are no Ferrari SUVs. Whoops, spoke too soon…

    https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a34543606/2022-ferrari-purosangue-spied/

    Well, at least Lotus won’t be doing this. No, wait, don’t tell me…

    https://media.lotuscars.com/en/news-articles/lotus-technology-global-hq-established-in-china-as-future-lotus-ev-product-plan-unveiled.html

    So, every performance brand on the planet is adding some sort of SUV. I’d even bet that GM is probably going to attach a Corvette-looking nose and taillights along with some bigger motors to the Lyriq. That’s the way things are and people need to get used to it.

    • 0 avatar
      ajla

      You seem to not understand (or not care) about the difference between there being a “Corvette CUV” and “we changed the grille on the Lyriq and called it a Corvette”.

      You also seem to think it’s impossible for a brand to water down its reputation.

      • 0 avatar
        mcs

        “You seem to not understand (or not care) about the difference between there being a “Corvette CUV” and “we changed the grille on the Lyriq and called it a Corvette”.”

        It’s just speculation as to what they might do based on past experience. They’d probably put in bigger motors and tune the suspension. It’s just speculation.

        “You also seem to think it’s impossible for a brand to water down its reputation.”

        No, but building CUVs/SUVs hasn’t hurt Lamborghini, Alphas, or certainly not Porsche’s reputations.

        “You seem to not understand (or not care)”
        It’s the don’t care part. I really don’t care about this kind of thing. It seems to work for the brands. It’s a standard marketing move at this point. Even Bob Lutz has been pushing for the Corvette CUV. So maybe go have a conversation with him and he can explain this to you.

        As a kid, I was around the Ferrari community and I remember how pissed some people were about the 246. It was still a nice car and didn’t even have the Ferrari name, but people still got bent out of shape over. The big problem was the attitude of the Daytona owners towards the 246 owners that was annoying. Never forgot it.

  • avatar
    Mr. Fletcher

    I’m just reading on hear how all these Boomers are irritated and complaining about the fact things change.

  • avatar
    Jeff S

    The Big 3 have been watering down their brands for decades. GM putting fancy trims on Chevrolets and calling them Cimarons, Escalades, Enclaves, Encores and how about GMC Sierra and Acadia which are basically Chevys. I am a boomer and I am not going to get all twisted about this especially when I can buy Toyotas, Hondas, and Mazdas. Also I might eventually buy an EV and I definitely will buy an electric golf cart when I move to Arizona.

  • avatar
    SCE to AUX

    I haven’t counted, but I believe over 95% of all comments about the Mach-E (here or anywhere) relate to its name – not its virtues as a car.

    • 0 avatar
      ajla

      Most of us haven’t driven one or even sat in one so it’s hard to give anything substantial.
      From what I can tell it’s a Model Y clone with worse range but (slightly?) better build quality and a wider dealer network.

    • 0 avatar
      Mr. Fletcher

      That what makes this site so special. Continued argument over the most mundane aspects that everyone else has long moved on past. Like coming back to an old barbershop you’ve been away from for years. That when you come back they are still arguing over the same things from when you left 7 years ago due to moving.

      It gives you this nostalgia that allows you to argue something you have better points this time around for.

  • avatar
    Vae Victis

    Nothing is wrong with it especially when it has all wheel drive.

  • avatar
    Vulpine

    Two too many doors, THAT’s what’s wrong with a 4-door muscle car. How many people actually NEED four full doors?

  • avatar
    olddavid

    As I sat waiting for the drugs to take effect, I was struck by an epiphany. A muscle car is a complete physical and aural experience. The sound of the mechanical bits singing while the db’s rise is part and parcel of what I have paid many dollars to achieve. I learned in 1966 that a GTO with 4.56 gears is a stump puller out of the hole, but runs out of breath at about 80 mph. Ergo, a 1959 Cadillac with (I think) 2.56 wasn’t much to start, but would cruise 100 mph all day long. I think there is a point there, somewhere. So, if a segment of the population can be persuaded that Elon’s golf carts are Automobiles with a capital “A”, then bully for them. You can call a dog a horse without making it fact.

    • 0 avatar
      28-Cars-Later

      Interesting post. The muscle car could in fact be defined as an experience and the EV is currently missing three parts of that experience:

      1. The physical experience of loud noises, smells, and driving feel for better or worse.
      2. Perceived freedom to roam.
      3. Styling.

      While improving styling would be theoretically possible (but probably requires replacing 80% of stylists who can’t design to save their lives), the first two prerequisites it cannot offer. EV is a de facto Shuttlecraft from Star Trek, and about as exciting as one despite merits such as max speed and instant torque.

      • 0 avatar
        Vulpine

        @28-Cars-Later: The problem with automotive stylists today is that their first thought has to be to the aerodynamics of the vehicle, followed by, “How do I make this vehicle look unique?” Guess which wins out.

        Once everything has gone electric, the stylists may have a more open palette to work with, bringing true style back into the vehicles without having to worry as much about the aerodynamics. Sure, there will be those who want super-long range but if what you want is a fun roadster or classy wagon or luxurious barge, the airplane bodies can go away and we can bring back some of that 50s and 60s style PLUS the performance! (I remember a friend boasting of getting a mere 5mpg out of his hopped-up ’55 BelAir.) Eliminate the fossil fuels and the need for extreme economy and watch us Americans go back to Conspicuous Consumption, hmmm?

        • 0 avatar
          28-Cars-Later

          I think a lot of those folks under 40 are simply messed up in the head and/or on various prescription or illicit drugs which contributes to the Dali inspired styling of today.

          You make interesting points on the palette being “opened up”, I think you may be proven correct but what is delivered I fear will be even worse. I’d also point out aerodynamics came about in the late 80s for the 90s models, yet they are mostly panned for being the standard to compare against. Do I want ’74 Caprice styling? Hell no. Mazda’s Eunos Cosmos? I’ll take three thanks.

          I’ll also add Volvo styled the P2 so you could actually see out of it, Ford took the same platform as D4 and can’t seem to remember what a window is… these are horrible design choices not platform or aerodynamic constraints.

    • 0 avatar
      SCE to AUX

      “if a segment of the population can be persuaded that Elon’s golf carts are Automobiles”

      His latest golf cart just did the Nürburgring in 7 minutes, 30.9 seconds.

  • avatar
    swilliams41

    Dumb to call it Mustang, not that I care, Galaxy seems to make more sense. Anyway, nice.

  • avatar
    eng_alvarado90

    As long as Ford keeps a 2 dr Mustang (even if it transitions to EV) on their lineup I’m fine with this vehicle.

    Still I’m hoping this gets the Mustang name removed in a couple years and stick with “Mach-E” just like Nissan went from Pathfinder Armada to just Armada and likewise with Versa note to just Note.

  • avatar
    28-Cars-Later

    EV related blurb I just read… bear in mind this is the same GM who is recalling its Chevrolet Bolt (emphasis mine):


    02:39 PM EDT, 10/12/2021 (MT Newswires) — General Motors Company (GM) is poised to have its stock re-rated more as a “disruptive technology” and an electric vehicle play rather than being a traditional stock, Wedbush said in a note to clients Tuesday.

    “After spending a few days with GM management, test driving the new EV vehicles/technology, and starting to see the broader EV vision take hold we have further confidence the Detroit stalwart is in the midst of a massive turnaround that will change the GM story going forward,” the investment firm said.

    Investors have reservations given chip shortfalls and other concerns, but the automaker ***can potentially convert 20% of its customer base*** to electric vehicles by 2026 and more than 50% by 2030, Wedbush said. The electric vehicle opportunities may change General Motors’ growth trajectory over the next 10 years with revenue likely to double by 2030 despite hurdles along the way, the firm said.

    Wedbush maintained its outperform rating on General Motors with a price target of $85.

    Price: 59.02, Change: +0.93, Percent Change: +1.60

    http://www.mtnewswires.com Copyright © 2021 MT Newswires. All rights reserved. MT Newswires does not provide investment advice.

    20% by 2026… that’s how good the drugs evidently are in RenCen.

  • avatar
    JonathanEzor

    From where did you get your range estimate of 235 miles?!? EPA official range estimate for the GT is 270 miles (same as the Mach-E Premium AWD ER), and 260 for the GT Performance Edition. {Jonathan}

  • avatar
    picard234

    “The cars get special interiors with sport-contour front seats and aluminum dash appliqué. … The seats include metallic stitching and the Performance comes with perforated material”

    Yet the pictures are of the center stack, the cluster, and the back of the seats.

  • avatar
    JaySeis

    Let’s see there were Mustang pickup prototypes, Mustang 4-door prototypes and Mustang 2-door prototypes. That a 4-door ‘Stang comes to life 60 years later and a bunch of geezers are cryin their eyes is not news. Put your big boy diapers on.

  • avatar
    Jeff S

    They are calling 4 door cars with a sloping roof line coups so it is not a stretch to call a 4 door electric crossover a Mustang. Too bad Dyson didn’t make his EV he could have called it the Dyson Animal and it would have really sucked but it would have left a clean road.

    How about a Mustang Mach E pickup with a 4.5 foot bed? That could be the next big thing after the Lightning.

  • avatar
    el scotto

    Think of 2-door Mustangs as the equivalent of Bass Weejuns/Allen Edmond shoes. Think of the Mach-E as a pair of Doc Martens. Every day is casual Friday for some people.

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