By on April 21, 2020

2018 Honda Odyssey EX Lunar Silver rear -Image: © Timothy CainIn spite of considerations involving pickups, downsizing, and three-row utility vehicles, our family ended up in our second consecutive Honda Odyssey in the spring of 2018. This time, against conventional wisdom, we were early adopters of the new-for-2018 fifth-generation Odyssey. Against my own internal bias, we acquired a vehicle with a nine-speed automatic transmission, nine-speeds having disappointed me previously in everything from the Chrysler 200 and Pacifica to the Fiat 500X, Jeep Renegade, Jeep Cherokee, and Honda’s own Acura TLX and MDX.

And against conventional buying patterns, we opted for one of the five remaining vans on offer in the North American marketplace. Changes in the typical family vehicle buyer’s tastes have seen demand for vans plummet: segment-wide volume was down 15 percent in the U.S. in 2019; 2020 minivan volume will fall for a fourth consecutive year. Current minivan market share stands at just 2 percent, down from 4 percent in 2011 and 6 percent in 2006. In a market that (quite unpredictably) slid by more than 12 percent in 2020’s first-quarter, van sales were down 21 percent, a loss of over 21,000 U.S. sales.

It’s a bizarre outcome given the undeniable, incontrovertible, unquestionable fact that the Honda Odyssey is the best vehicle on the market.

2018 Honda Odyssey snow - Image: © Timothy CainExcuse the hyperbole, particularly since even one who accepts such a “fact” will need to separate desirability from superiority. For family-of-five duties, I would prefer a Chevrolet Suburban, Ford Expedition, most any full-size pickup, a Kia Telluride, a Toyota 4Runner, or any number of premium three-row utilities. But pound-for-pound and dollar-for-dollar, are any of them better?

The breadth of talent on offer in the Odyssey – and its four competitors, to be frank – is remarkable. Its adult-friendly third row space is a decidedly unusual trait in SUVs of any size. Ample V6 power (0-60 mph in less than seven seconds; 50-70 mph in a tick over four seconds) is matched with observed fuel economy of between 21 and 25 miles per gallon. The ability to slide in 10-foot-long 2x4s has proven helpful on more than one occasion, and there’s 144 percent more cargo capacity (38.6 cubic feet) behind the third row than there is in the trunk of a Honda Accord. The nine-speed is inoffensive, the Odyssey is a safety-ratings chart-topper, and the convenience of power-sliding doors and the Odyssey’s unique sliding second-row outboard seats can’t be understated, whether you’re loading an infant seat or fetching a sleeping six-year-old from the third row.

Throw in high equipment levels (including a sunroof, remote start, adaptive cruise control, auto high beams, a 12-way power driver’s seat, tri-zone automatic climate control, a built-in vacuum) and the relatively pricey Odyssey’s value equation starts to come more clearly into view. The 2018 Odyssey EX was priced at $34,800 in the U.S. when new; the 2020 is $35,910 including freight/pdi and the previously Touring-exclusive 10-speed auto. (For the record, we lease an Odyssey from Honda Canada. Excellent residuals, Honda loyalty discounts, and equity in our last van combined for a wonderfully affordable payment.)2018 Honda Odyssey filthy - Image: © Timothy CainThe Odyssey has other perks, but they’re less likely to be appreciated by the typical minivan buyer.

We live in rural Prince Edward Island on a road favoured by motorcyclists; in an area jam-packed with great roads. Should a minivan’s best-in-class ride and handling matter? In our case, most definitely. Due to my spirited driving style and the fact that we tend to run a bit late, I don’t want to feel like I’m driving a miniaturized school bus, certainly not on these roads. The Odyssey’s not an S2000, nor will it be confused for an Accord Sport. But there are characteristics reminiscent of the Accord, and that’s an achievement I can appreciate.

The Odyssey can also tow up to 3,500 pounds; 3,000 as equipped. We’re frequently towing an aluminum trailer with two ATVs, and the Odyssey’s V6 minds the load not at all. So loaded, we registered 18 miles per gallon on a trip to Nova Scotia and back.2018 Honda Odyssey towing 4wheeler Suzuki Kingquad - Image: © Timothy CainSo, the big Honda is perfect?


Not quite.

The Odyssey shouts value from the mountaintops, but there are unfortunate omissions. The nature of Honda’s no-options trim packaging means you’ll need to shell out an additional $3,270 to get a leather-wrapped steering wheel. This also feels like a lot of money to spend on a family hauler with no power tailgate.

The Odyssey’s 12-way power seat is a blessing, but minivan seating positions still just never feel right. The front passenger’s footwell is cramped, too, so it’s actually preferable to sit in the rear rows. The auto high beams intermittently forget that they have but one job, which requires a re-sync with reality. And the wonders of the Magic Slide second-row are, quite obviously, lost when you install the eighth seat betwixt the outboard duo. For our newborn’s early months, we experimented with spreading all three kids across the middle row in a pair of Diono Radian RXTs and a Graco Snugride, but it made inserting other kids (or grandparents) into the third row a pain in the neck, Magic Slide or not. This isn’t unexpected, it’s just one of those moments in which one of the most appealing aspects of a vehicle is completely negated by the vehicle’s own knack for hauling a lot of people.

(COVID-19, of course, has made this less of an issue now – friends and grandparents cease to exist, and the now four-month-old baby hasn’t been met in-person by an adult other than his parents in six weeks.) 

Oh, and reliability? Maintenance costs, not including Bridgestone Blizzak swaps, total less than $400 to date. There were two recalls on those second-row seats and a recall for power-sliding doors that fail to latch, although we had not experienced any issue in our van. And, sadly to the surprise of few minivan owners and few experienced owners of first-model-year vehicles, our passenger-side sliding door required a new motor. It was hardly a major issue – we were fortunate not to lose the functionality of the door altogether. But with power to both doors turned off in order to maintain the use of both sides, small kids couldn’t run outside and get themselves buckled in on their own.

Perhaps the greatest vehicle would suffer no maladies whatsoever; perhaps no complaints could ever be leveled against The GOAT. The Odyssey, in that case, is not the greatest vehicle. Yet after two years and 28,000 miles in this Odyssey, I know I’d drive another. That’s high praise from someone whose alternative mode of transportation switches annually, from Miata to FR-S to Suzuki DRZ400SM to, most recently, a KTM Duke 390.

Timothy Cain is a contributing analyst at The Truth About Cars and and the founder and former editor of Follow on Twitter @timcaincars and Instagram.

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45 Comments on “Long-Term Update: Two Years And 28,000 Miles In the 2018 Honda Odyssey – Great Vehicle, or the Greatest Vehicle?...”

  • avatar
    CKNSLS Sierra SLT

    Interesting article…but nothing we don’t already know. One of the most versatile vehicle classes-that nobody wants.

    If I were to buy a mini-van-personally I think the Pacific “breaks the mold” on the mini van look (as much as you can when designing a “box”) and would buy a Pacifica over the Honda-based on looks alone.

  • avatar

    I had the pleasure (it wasn’t) of sitting in one of these cheap feeling massive breadboxes for a short run to lunch one day. I am never impressed with what Honduh shovels onto the roads these days, and I came away even less impressed with what Honduh builds.

    This is no minivan – it is huge. I sat in the miserable and uncomfortable back seat that was upholstered but could have been a park bench in another life. I am six foot and the lack of thigh support was amazing. I guess all that is needed these days in a bloated minivan is to put something in the second and third row and then it doesn’t have to be built for people with legs.

    I found the exterior of this mud brown Honduh to be hideous. Nothing works. It is too cute by half and the rear windows look like someone forgot to install them and then just threw whatever they had between the c and d pillar.

    I used to love the Hondas made from the 1970’s through the early 1990’s, but they build hideous and bloated garbage these days.

  • avatar

    ” given the undeniable, incontrovertible, unquestionable fact that the Honda Odyssey is the best vehicle on the market.”

    We already knew that about the sliding door sports car.

  • avatar

    I just will never understand why more people, especially families, aren’t buying minivans. Their superiority over SUVs and crossovers is evident in so many ways. People like to say it’s their image. Um, have you seen what dowdy boring blobs SUVs have become these days? There is nothing “cool” about 90% of them (even the Telluride. Sorry, it’s not that great). Give me a well equipped Pacifica (now with AWD) over any SUV.

    • 0 avatar

      I once got a minivan as a rental. Back in the day, was a Ford(whatever it was called). Choice was that or a Neon, and according to the IIHS neon was a death trap.

      I’ve never felt as repulsed and shamed by a vehicle as when I was in a minivan. I figured, it was going to be nice and practical, but I just can’t help but for some reasons my emotions make me feel bad about myself when driving one of those.

      I once test drove a ml-550. This felt like a mom-mobile. A little better than the minivan though. I don’t think it’s the that SUV are so cool(a small handful are though), it’s that for some there’s some weird visceral reaction against minivans.

      For the record, I drive a coupe and have never owned an SUV, but have considered them.

      • 0 avatar

        This right here is why they don’t sell. The people who don’t want them don’t even know *why* they don’t want them. “For some reason” they “feel bad about themselves” when they drive a minivan. And, hey, keep it up! It’s the reason 15-year-old pickups are $10-20k in good shape, but a low-mile 05 Grand Caravan can be had for $2,500. Saves a boatload for those of us who don’t care what you think.

        • 0 avatar
          Art Vandelay

          No, it is 2500 because the driveline components are overstressed hauling around a minivan body and most buyers calculate the cost of the new transmission into their purchase price. I get them as rentals when we travel with a large party, the last being a Sienna. They just aren’t especially good, that is why nobody wants them.

          • 0 avatar

            Art, you have to be joking because that isn’t true. I hear people say “I’d never be caught dead in a minivan” but will then buy the identical chassis in an suv form which is probably just as stressed if not more with the added weight.

    • 0 avatar

      A lot of it is image, but its also the fact that a minivan is just essentially a large sedan construction-wise. Everything is thin and tinny, the chassis more resembles a car than a van, road noise is plentiful and irritating, cant tow meaningful weight, wind blows them all over the road, and seating position isn’t quite as good as it is on a crossover.

      But I do agree that many folks would be well served by a minivan. I like the Pacifica, but I would really like it if FCA could make it more reliable. And a minivan is no more or less cool than a Telluralisade or any of the other amorphous crossover blobs.

  • avatar

    Honda does a nice job with the Odyssey. The interiors of these are amazingly useful.

    I believe they try too hard with the exterior styling, and compromising utility in the name of styling on a vehicle purchased for its utility is a fatal mistake.

    (Example: Why does the roofline drop from B-pillar to C-pillar to D-pillar? The rear load aperture is defined by the D-pillar height. Mistake.)

    [Unpopular opinion: Power sliding doors are nice to have, but I am anti-power liftgate.]

    • 0 avatar
      Dave M.

      If we had had more than one kid I would have been all over a minivan. In today’s market I wouldn’t mind a Pacifica Hybrid for economy or a Sedona for looks.

      • 0 avatar

        I had the pleasure of minivan shopping with a couple I know. We looked at the top-of-the-line Pacifica hybrid, and Mister and I were gaga for it. It looked great, wafted silently on oceans of electric torque, and had an interior that seemed lifted right from some international financial criminal’s private jet. White perforated leather recliners are a hilariously bad idea for a family car, but they sure looked and felt nice. And best of all: plug the car in as designed, and it effectively gets the MPG of a Yaris.

        Missus, on the other hand, was less moved than we by the hybrid wizardry, self-parking, thousand-watt stereo, and so on. And she cared not that the Honda we cross-shopped had tinny doors, park-bench seats, and actually cost more than the PacHy. No, she was concerned about one thing:

        Will it leave me stranded?

        Since then, I’ve heard of PacHys bricked by bum diodes, consumed by catalytic converter fires, and otherwise rendered unable to ferry Ocean and Sky to Montessori. Missus was smart enough to foresee this, and bought the Odyssey that left Mister and I so unimpressed.

        The PacHy would be the best vehicle in the world, if it weren’t built by FCA. I hope they get the reliability sorted and put that powertrain in the commercial Ram van (Fiat Ducato). That truly would be a game changer for businesses.

  • avatar

    Tim, you had the most important element for satisfaction in your purchase…..a thorough test of the intended. (In your case, it was your previous van.) When one is spending $35K on a vehicle, one needs more than a 20 minute ride on a preselected route with the distraction of a sales person. Rent or borrow a car for a day. Find out if the front seat isn’t comfortable for your wife. Sit in the back seat with the front seats adjusted for your height. See if the kid’s car seat really fits in the back. Merge onto the freeway. Bounce over a few railroad tracks. Make sure your spouse can pull down the tailgate if there is no power closer.
    Of course, if your spouse is a mail order bride, then you are a risk taker and none of the above applies.

  • avatar

    I can’t fault you on the utility aspect. Minivans are really perfect for the way most people with families live their lives.

    I am curious though, since you brought up pound for pound value. Its really difficult for any of us to make a determination or agree with that statement in a vacuum. It would be helpful for this exercise to know how much value costs? I totally understand if you dont want to, but would love to see what cash due at signing and monthly payment is on this (like actually see a personal info redacted contract). The only reason I say that, is that I know Honda dealers think their cars are the second coming and are, in my experience, difficult to deal with and negotiate prices with. So, if you paid nothing but startups and $340 a month or less for 15k miles per year, I’d tend to agree with you.

    Also, I have tried to get my reader ride reviews to you guys but nobody seems interested over there any more. Might be a good time to get some user created content given the general lack of auto news these days.

  • avatar

    My 2016 odyssey that i bought new is up to 41000 miles and for my family of 5 its been perfect. Only issues are 2 leaky rims and the external power talgate button doesnt work in the cold (this is very annoying when you wann just open the thing and not dig out the fob or open the drivers door). Youre right abut the driveability of the odyssey and its why ive always liked hondas. The sienna and town and country drove like minibusses while the odyssey drove like a raised accord.
    Only thing i dislike about the 2018 is could do without the sliding seats. With the 3 middle row seats having latch id rather just take out the unwanted seat and not have the fixed rails on the floor to deal with. I think Honda nailed it perfectly on the 2011-2017 odyssey and dont plan to upgrade mine anytime soon, if ever.

    So to the OP does the zf 9 speed behave like it does in fca products cuz of the dog clutches it uses in the upper gears?

  • avatar

    Meh, if I was going to buy a van to schlep a bunch of kids around in, it would be the cheapest new Grand Caravan Dodge would sell me. And then spend the substantial difference on something fun to drive when I am NOT schlepping kids around. These are UGLY, and overpriced.

    And I don’t believe for a hot second that any difference in reliability is worth the massive difference in upfront cost in any reasonable timeframe. I know too many people who own each of these to believe there is much in it.

    • 0 avatar

      I drove them in a state prison fleet. Very fitting for that job, but it’s definitely apparent why they fall apart fast and aren’t worth much after 5 years. Some get driven 25,000 miles a year and some maybe 5,000 miles a year.

  • avatar

    Forgive me for going off topic, but how do you like the DRZ400SM? There’s one near me on Craigslist, and I’m kind of intrigued. How is it in the dirt?

    • 0 avatar
      Timothy Cain

      I loved it. I used Continental TKC80s so it would work well on and off pavement. It’s probably too heavy and soft for trail use (unless you’re a much better rider than me), but on an island full of dirt roads it was great for exploring on a Saturday morning. Sitting up that high on a narrow seat didn’t make it the best highway commuter, however, even though it has the power for it. So I’m trying something quite different this year, and so far the KTM is so full of spunk and character that I can’t help but love it. Plus, the riding position is perfect.

  • avatar

    Wife can’t get past the sweatpants image, so we have a Highlander Hybrid. If it had been purely up to me, it would be a Pacifica Hybrid.

    I like the Odyssey from behind the wheel, but can’t get past the greenhouse shape, which causes the whole van to remind me of a dog squatting to poop every time I see it.

    • 0 avatar

      We rented a 2018 Pacifica for a 3000 mile road trip. We got between 28 and 33 mpg but it was mostly highway miles. I would hate to give up the sto and go to get the hybrid. The 9 speed was unnoticeable and the power was certainly there in the mountains. It was comfy and rides nice. Uconnect was decent enough to use.

      We liked it so much we are currently shopping for a low mile or new one. Yes, I know new costs you the depreciation, but we tend to hang onto cars a while. 200k miles on our 2000. 83k miles on the 2013 and 78k miles on the 2014. We don’t even like the 2013. Only 10k miles on the 1995, but it is a weekend toy.

      • 0 avatar

        Honestly, for my particular usage (which includes regular use of the middle row by adults), I’d rather have the much comfier Hybrid seats than Stow ‘N’ Go. The Hybrid middle row is almost as comfortable as the front, but Stow ‘N’ Go chairs feel like the slightly padded lawn chairs they basically are.

  • avatar
    Felix Hoenikker

    Just a quick long term review of our 1999 Oddy bought new that has now been with us for 21 years. It was my wife’s DD until January 1, 2019 when it was replaced bu a QX50. It’s still going strong at 142k miles. We use it as a hauler and a backup when someone in the family needs a car for a few days while their’s is repaired. It has carried everything from a 25 cu ft fridge to a sofa when the back seats are removed as well as moved three kids into and out of college rooms and apartments.
    Over it’s lifetime, I had to replace the 4 spd auto at 82k miles for the mere sum of $1000 thanks to a class action settlement. Also, the catalytic converter failed at 73k miles but was replaced free thanks to the EPA warranty. Other than that, no major failures. I had the coils and plugs replaced by the dealer around 90k miles and the power steering pump by me two years ago. Everything else has been routine maintenance. Also, I replaced the timing belt and water pump at 118k miles myself and saved about $900 over dealer cost. (This is routine maintenance per the manual). The suspension and exhaust systems are original. There is one small rust spot starting in the right rear wheel well. Other than that, no body or frame rust.
    My biggest complaint about the Oddy is the noise level which is a Honda thing in general. Although there are no rattles, the road noise is very noticeable once you drive a quiet car and go back to the Oddy. The car also has an appetite for front tires despite several alignments at local shops.
    All in all, I can’t complain about the utility and value the Oddy has provided over it’s lifetime.

  • avatar

    First of all, the Odyssey and the Pacifica are not minivans. They are vans. My 1985 Caravan was a true minivan at about 175 inches in length. Today’s “minivans” are around 205 inches long, which is no longer “mini,” at least to me.

    One of the reasons for the lessening popularity of Pacifica/Odyssey is the same as the decline in midsize sedans – people prefer the higher, “command seating” that you get in an SUV. This is part and parcel of the current USA obsession with pickup trucks. Ground clearance of the Pacifica is 5.1 inches, the exact same as my Hyundai Sonata. By comparison, a Telluride has 8 inches of ground clearance. And the minivans have never been sexy – their calling card has always been their practicality.

    Finally – and this is admittedly a small sample size – My wife and I rented a Pacifica in February to drive from the Florida panhandle to Disney World to join up with my son and family, and return to panhandle with son/daughter in law/grandkids in tow. Over 800 miles roundtrip, the Pacifica was a great highway cruiser, and while it certainly isn’t a Mazda 6, it surprised me with it’s handling ability. I liked it and wouldn’t hesitate to buy one if I needed a vehicle with it’s passenger/cargo capacity.

    • 0 avatar
      CKNSLS Sierra SLT


      No-they are mini -vans. Have you been picked up by a ride share or airport taxi/shuttle and sat in a FULL SIZE VAN?

      Just about every vehicle segment has grown in size in the last 10 years or so.

      It has been said the when the last Honda Civic sedan was made-it was about the size of the first(generation) Honda Accord.

      • 0 avatar

        I agree with you that all vehicle sizes have grown over the years. As you suggested, my 87 Accord sedan was 180 inches in length, while a 2020 Civic sedan is 182 inches. So I buy that, compared to today’s 11 or 15 passenger full size vans, the Pacifica/Odyssey is a minivan.

        My point is that today’s minivan is definitely a different beast from the original early ’80s vehicle that spurred the minivan craze. My 85 Caravan at 175 inches is about the same size as today’s Kia Sportage, which is clearly not considered a minivan. And the Caravan was pretty agile, given it was never designed to be a sports sedan. The ’94 Town and Country that replaced it was much more ponderous in its handling (193 inches) – no comparison. Thankfully, with increased technology, today’s Pacifica/Odyssey is a vast improvement, even though it is even longer than the ’90s T & C.

        So yes, it’s still a minivan in today’s nomenclature. But it’s not as “mini” as it used to be.

    • 0 avatar

      I have to agree with you – a Mazda5 is a minivan. This is a van, just not a full-size commercial van.

      I’m with you, if I had to haul people, I would not consider anything else but a van.

      I’m not sure I buy your seating height argument. These vans have similar seating height to most mid-size and smaller CUVs – they just have more upright “kitchen chair” style seating and a lower floor – admittedly this Honda is the lowest of the bunch. I find that MORE comfortable than a jacked up hatchback that puts your eyes higher but your legs in the same position as in a sedan. People don’t buy vans because marketing has convinced them that a “rough tough SUV” (even if it’s really an EcoSport heap of feces) is “cooler”. The 3-row CUVs are universally really just vans made worse in the name of style.

      • 0 avatar
        R Henry

        “The 3-row CUVs are universally really just vans made worse in the name of style.”

        Yes. Style sells. Do you prefer to spend time with an ordinary looking woman who has a strong back, is a great mom, and prefers cheap clothes? Or do you prefer to have the supermodel with perfect skin, big boobs, and who has never worked a day in her life?

        • 0 avatar

          It depends on what we were doing.

        • 0 avatar

          Having known a few of the latter, if it comes to marriage, the former is greatly preferable.
          Casual dating, the supermodel. But if you marry her, she will quickly turn into your overweight, short-haired mother-in-law. Then she will divorce you and live the good life on the alimony.
          (The strong-backed great mom had better be mother to your kids, not someone else’s…)

          In car language: Ferrari or Toyota pickup truck?

        • 0 avatar

          When I think three row crossovers, a super model is far from the analogy I’m thinking of lol

      • 0 avatar

        Good example on the Mazda 5. That was a minivan!

        The ride height issue is admittedly a bit subjective. When I bought my (used) 2010 Venza, I also drove a used 2012 Santa Fe. Thought their ground clearance was nearly identical, the Santa Fe sat a good bit higher and felt more “truck-like” to me, seat-wise. So that was a major reason I bought the Venza. The “feel” of the sitting position – “command” or otherwise – is a personal preference. And, judging by sales figures, an awful lot of people like the higher sitting position of SUV’s.

        • 0 avatar

          The mazda5 was a minivan failure cuz it only sat 2 in row 2 and 3. If you had to sit 3 in the back you couldnt fit anything behind row 3. It could haul people or cargo but never both at the same time which a real minivan or even an outback crv or rav4 can do with ease. Thats why it failed as a minivan.

    • 0 avatar

      I think the reason minivans are outta style is cuz families today are smaller. Most families now are 2 kids or 1 kid and with a family of 3 or 4 a crv will do the job of family transporter just fine.

  • avatar

    Tim do you know if the zf 9 speed in hondas is built in the same plant as the units in FCA products? I read constantly of the zf 9 speed sounding and driving harsher and rougher in fca vehicles than hondas and Ive always wondered why.

    • 0 avatar

      Each mfr does their own programming and FCA builds their under license. Not sure if Honda buys or builds theirs but it would not be the same plant. FWIW, the Pacifica we rented had a very unnoticeable transmission. It was smooth and mostly ignoreable. This may be due to the miles and the transmission learning how to behave as opposed to new.

  • avatar

    Isn’t this the point of the stimulus check? Paying lenders installment payments?

    It’s not like it can be spent anywhere else…. everything’s closed…the shelves are empty

  • avatar

    What’s wrong with minivans?

    Women don’t like them

    Case closed

  • avatar

    Wake up Folks! With the possibility that the pandemic gets worse a van could end up being your next home. The vanlife movement proves that it can be fun and there are all sorts of very clever kits and DIY YouTubes as proof. So the question you should be asking is which van: Sienna over Honda…I lean for the Toyota for reliability reasons. Which one can go 30k miles with no service on crappy gas overloaded with you and yours in a run for a safe haven in Wyoming if it comes to that (and for some it probably unfortunately will).

    In the current economic situation vehicle choice needs to take into account worst case scenario….so sadly Miata is not the answer. The party is over and nutcase preppers are stating to make more sense every day. When the SHTF as it may soon a van is going to be your best choice as you head to the hills and start a new life.

    • 0 avatar

      If you want to live in a van down by the river, or out in the hills you don’t want a minivan. You want an E-series or one of the GM twins. Not only will you have more room and the ground clearance for those Wyoming back roads you can fix it with a rock and some duct tape. Plus they will easily outlive those minivans.

  • avatar

    We had a 2002 Odyssey we drove 170,000 miles in 11 years. Apart from scheduled maintenance, we replaced the battery twice and tires as needed. That’s it.

    I have two conclusions about minivans in general and Odyssey’s in particular:

    It’s the car you love to hate, and hate to love.

    While they satisfy in every way, they delight in none.

  • avatar


  • avatar

    I own an Odyssey but had a midrange Pacifica as a loaner for a week last year – it was better. The BEST is still a Sienna (had two of those).

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