By on March 26, 2020

fca

With Ford looking to get pickups rolling off the assembly line again by April 6th, where does its rivals stand?

The list is far from complete, and schedules for resuming production are fluid as a 1950s executive’s lunch, but there’s details to share on when certain U.S. autoworkers might be headed back to the factory.

Toyota, which joined just about every other automaker in shutting down production last week, has extended its lights-out period, now claiming that the shutdown — originally expected to last until April 3rd — will last until the 17th. Production in Mexico, Canada, and the U.S. will resume on April 20th, Toyota claims, adding that its parts depots and logistics centers continue operations.

“We will continue to monitor the situation and take appropriate action in a timely manner,” the automaker said in a statement.

For General Motors and Fiat Chrysler, with home bases in Michigan (a state where Governor Gretchen Whitmer’s close-up-shop order on non-essential businesses runs out on April 13th), it’s looking like work, at least some of it, might restart on the 14th. For the record, the non-essential business order is hazy, as most things seem to be in this new reality.

GM said its shutdown would see reevaluations each week following March 30th, with UAW President Roy Gamble saying Fiat Chrysler has no intention of resuming production on March 3oth in a letter to members obtained by Reuters. That automaker just saw two workers die of COVID-19.

FCA, which just joined its Detroit rivals in securing cash via a new credit line (this one worth 3.8 billion), is reportedly coming back online April 14th. Per a tweet from CNBC’s Michael Wayland, FCA says the return to production is “dependent upon the various state stay in place orders,” as well as the readiness of those facilities.

The UAW, which pressured the Detroit Three to close up shop in the first place, is hesitant to endorse any return to work. “The UAW continues to review with great caution and concern decisions being made about restarting workplaces, especially at advanced dates,” Gamble said in a statement.

The union’s position is that plant reopenings “should be informed by data and where each state is on the contagion curve,” with each facility adhering to public health guidelines set by the CDC.

“The only guideline in a boardroom,” Gamble said, “should be management asking themselves, ‘Would I send my family — my own son or daughter — into that plant and be 100% certain they are safe?'”

[Image: Fiat Chrysler

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79 Comments on “Work Starts Anew? The Latest on When Autoworkers Head Back...”


  • avatar
    thelaine

    Dr. Eran Bendavid & Dr. Jay Bhattacharya, professors of medicine at Standford, ask if “the real fatality rate could in fact be closer to 0.06%.”

    Are we allowed to even share this info or only the “plague of the century” stuff out of Imperial College UK?

    • 0 avatar
      SCE to AUX

      They can ask all they want, but it’s preposterous to believe the infection rate is 25x higher than reported. That’s what you’re suggesting, or else you’re suggesting that 96% of the deaths associated to the CV are a hoax.

      You’re giving some people a reason to come here, and others a reason to stay away.

    • 0 avatar
      Lou_BC

      “Dr. Eran Bendavid & Dr. Jay Bhattacharya, professors of medicine at Standford, ask if “the real fatality rate could in fact be closer to 0.06%.”

      Keep data mining………..

      The death rate is low **IF** the health care system is not overwhelmed. I’ve said that MULTIPLE TIMES!!!!

      The death rate climbs rapidly when the health care system is overwhelmed. Wuhan province China’s death rate was considerably higher than the rest of the country. IIRC 0.9% versus 3.7%. Italy is over 10%.

      Sheltering at home and social distancing is for the expressed purpose of reducing the burden upon the health care system….. I’ve also repeated this many times.

      • 0 avatar
        EGSE

        There have been dozens of posts per day stridently pushing a singular theme. It’s been going on for several days without relent. Is it possible there’s a paid troll here?

        • 0 avatar
          thelaine

          Paid by who, EGSE? The Dr. Evil corporation? I have a point of view. It is a minority view. People demanded “links.” I am giving them links.

          Your failure to understand my point of view is not my fault, but I am trying to reach you nonetheless. I am doing the best I can to break through the hysteria that has resulted from this virus, which is no more serious than the typical flu and is insufficient reason to derail our economy, which is going to cause much greater suffering. I want people to do a cost/benefit analysis of the actions we are taking.

          So who is paying me? The International Cost/Benefit Corporation of Transylvania?

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            Except…you haven’t posted anything that *proves* what the cost/benefit will be of doing something different. All you’re doing is complaining that all this social distancing is causing economic havoc – which it is – but not suggesting what the “bottom line” would be if we did things your way.

            And then you call anyone who diasgrees with you hysterical.

            Okey dokey…

            (And don’t give me this “I’m trying to reach people” nonsense…if that were the case, then the best approach would be to say “hey, I get you’re concerned, and so am I, but here’s a different way of approaching the problem.” Is that what you’re doing? No. You’re just putting up hypothetical alternative approaches with no proof that they’ll be any less economically damaging, and saying that anyone who disagrees with you is hysterical. You’re not here to “reach” people – you’re just here to stroke your own ego. And have at it…a healthy ego is a great thing.)

          • 0 avatar
            JimZ

            ” I am doing the best I can to break through the hysteria that has resulted from this virus,”

            you have no unique knowledge which gives you any greater insight than the medical and epidemiological community.

            “which is no more serious than the typical flu”

            STOP. THE. GODDAMN. LYING.

            You’ve already been given multiple examples of hospitals which are now over-capacity for critical care patients because of this.

            THAT. DOESN’T. HAPPEN. IN. A. TYPICAL. FLU. SEASON.

            What will it take? Does someone have to write it on a baseball bat?

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            @thelaine – you are trying to explain a point of view that has zero credibility among the majority of the experts on epidemiology and health care. Your point of view is only supported by a portion of the conservative media and the chump-in-chief.

            England WAS going to go down that path of “Herd Immunity” then realized that was going to leave a massive trail of corpses.

            Like I’ve said before, China, a totalitarian regime with ZERO regard for human rights and freedoms did not “let ‘er rip. Let ’em die”.

            I understand your point of view, that is why I am adamantly against it.

            Baby boomers and their offspring have had way too easy of a time and are self-serving and selfish and self centered.. The Holy Trinity should be the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost not ” ME, MYSELF, and I”.

  • avatar
    JMII

    And build vehicles for who? Have then seen the unemployment numbers? Dealers can’t be ordering these things so is this another pump and dump? I guess this is good for consumers since your local dealer is going to be overstocked and very happy to accept your stimulus check as a down payment. Of course the factory wants production to get going currently they are paying workers to stay home.

    • 0 avatar
      FreedMike

      I strongly suspect the current wave of unemployed is made up primarily of low-wage workers in the service industries. Are these the folks buying new cars? Not really.

      There will definitely be an impact on higher-paid workers (i.e., the ones that actually can buy new vehicles), but the jury’s out on how this demographic will be affected.

      • 0 avatar
        JMII

        Good point. However the next round (which is already here) is pay cuts for upper management types. My brother’s salary was just slashed massively. He works for a cruise line so at this point the fact they are still paying him is a miracle.

        His company (like many others) is operating totally in the red. They are experiencing daily loss-of-a-limb type bleeding due to negative cash flow. The recovery down the road will not be smooth. They are giving customers their money back on canceled cruises, PLUS discounts on future cruises in effort to maintain customer relationships.

      • 0 avatar
        Daniel J

        If states start shutting down all non essential work, many middle class Americans will be hoses.

  • avatar
    SCE to AUX

    “The union’s position is that plant reopenings “should be informed by data and where each state is on the contagion curve,” with each facility adhering to public health guidelines set by the CDC.

    “The only guideline in a boardroom,” Gamble said, “should be management asking themselves, ‘Would I send my family — my own son or daughter — into that plant and be 100% certain they are safe?’”

    I agree with this approach.

    • 0 avatar
      golden2husky

      I couldn’t agree more. Reopening should be based on science and the medical experts. Not Trump or the media. If, by miracle, three weeks is enough, then so be it. Failure to do this lock down correctly will only mean we will be doing it again.

      Don’t count on it though. Stupidity like this: Mississippi’s governor overrode all local lockdown orders in his state to try to keep money flowing. Sandwiched between the next round of “hot” states, he is creating a disaster that could be prevented. Let’s see how he asks for help when the medical system in that state collapses.

  • avatar
    thelaine

    Even a brief recession has lasting consequences. In rough terms, each 1 percent rise in unemployment leads to one additional suicide for each 100,000 people. If unemployment increases by 5 percent in the current economic shutdown, that could mean some 16,500 additional suicides. A 10 percent spike in unemployment could mean some 30,000 additional suicides.

    A study by the National Survey of Drug Use and Health found the rate of drug addiction could be as much double for those who are unemployed as for those who are employed full time. Research by the Federal Reserve Bank of Saint Louis concluded that with large increases in unemployment, the number of drug users can also rise dramatically. Yet another study by the National Bureau of Economic Research found a 1 percent increase in the unemployment rate could mean a 3 percent rise in opioid overdose deaths and more than a 6 percent rise in emergency room visits.

    Among Americans between the ages of 50 and 75, a study in the Archives of Internal Medicine found the unemployed are 35 percent more likely to suffer a heart attack.

    https://thehill.com/opinion/finance/489566-shutdown-is-killing-the-economy-and-is-also-no-good-for-our-health

    • 0 avatar
      Lou_BC

      @thelaine – Wow……… So you don’t give a sh!t about people dying from COVID-19 but now are all of a sudden concerned about suicide rates? or addictions and overdoses?

      WTF?

      You can’t have it both ways….

      Keep it up. You are actually providing all sorts of evidence that supports the idea that the USA NEEDS Universal Health care coverage.

      • 0 avatar
        Lokki

        Wow Lou…Chill. If enough people get as excited as you, the Corona Virus is going to responsible for an increase in strokes too.

        By the way, your demand for nationalized medical care because of the Corona Virus is a jump too far.

        In 2019 the United States was rated the country most prepared to deal with a pandemic

        https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/02/these-are-the-countries-best-prepared-for-health-emergencies/

        • 0 avatar
          Lou_BC

          @Lokki – LOL. I’m “chill”. A rebuttal to mr. @the laine automatically means one is freaking out or tense or not relaxed….

          If one wants to have a logical debate over the effects of “let ‘er rip” or “shelter at home”, then let’s have a debate.
          “In 2019 the United States was rated the country most prepared to deal with a pandemic”

          Please note the 2019 part of your comment. Part and parcel of being ready for a pandemic is listening to your experts, having a cohesive plan based on the experts, and having a consistent message from the experts.

          Wasting valuable time denying, then blaming or shifting blame and/or contradicting the experts isn’t showing that the USA is prepared to deal with this pandemic. “Let ‘er rip. Let ’em die” isn’t much of a plan.

          Did you read that article in its entirety? It doesn’t sound like it.

          “Collectively, international preparedness is “very weak.” The index’s average overall score is 40.2, which rises to 51.9 for high-income countries – a situation the report describes as alarming.

          So what can be done? The report emphasizes that health security is a collective responsibility.

          It recommends governments commit to action to address health security risks, that every country’s health security capacity should be measured regularly and transparently, and that the international community works together to tackle biological threats, with a focus on financing and emergency response.

          This kind of action will become even more necessary. The number and diversity of epidemic events has increased over the past 30 years, according to the World Economic Forum’s Global Health Security: Epidemics Readiness Accelerator.

          The trend is expected to intensify. As globalization brings increasing trade, travel and population density, and as problems such as deforestation and climate change grow, we enter a new era in the risk of epidemic events, it says.

          Stronger, unified responses to these threats – such as that displayed by the Coalition for Epidemic Preparedness Innovations when it moved to rapidly form partnerships to develop a vaccine for the novel coronavirus – will be of vital importance.”

      • 0 avatar
        thelaine

        Lou,

        You are arguing like a 12 year old, based upon your assessment of my “feelings.” Do feelings help you make better public policy decisions? When people are going to die no matter what we decide, should we base our decisions on our feelings?

        I am talking about the harm caused by the crippling of the largest economy in the world, which I am saying is not necessary in order to fight the virus. I’m saying we need to focus all of our efforts on protecting the vulnerable and their caregivers. I have said his over and over. Lou, your summary of my position is that I don’t “care” about old people and I am now lying about “caring” about suicide victims. This is why I think people’s minds are being affected by fear, panic and hysteria. For you to make these conclusions from what I have said means to me that your mind is not working properly.

        • 0 avatar
          JimZ

          “I’m saying we need to focus all of our efforts on protecting the vulnerable and their caregivers. I have said his over and over. ”

          then why the f*** aren’t you leading the response, then, instead of sitting on your a$$ posting comments on a car blog?

        • 0 avatar
          Lou_BC

          “You are arguing like a 12 year old”

          Nope, I’m arguing like a health professional that has seen too many people die in my career.

          I can’t dumb down my responses to any lower a level.

          You aren’t concerned about people dying of COVID-19 but then you are concerned about suicides and overdoses.

          You don’t have a sound platform to base any of your beliefs upon.

    • 0 avatar
      Art Vandelay

      22 veterans a day Elaine and they kept right on deploying them in spite of every mental health person they asked saying 15 months was too long a rotation. They do not care and based on your inaction on all of the thousands that take their own life for reasons unconnected to an agenda you are pushing I am inclined to think you really don’t either.

      And honestly @lou, as one who interacts with the VA from time to time, you can keep your single payer too. It blows

      • 0 avatar
        thelaine

        By that logic, Art, you don’t care about malaria in Africa, based upon your inaction on the issue.

        I don’t know what you are talking about. I am not representing myself to be the TTAC anti-suicide crusader. Who cares what I FEEL?

        I am saying that the cost of shutting down the economy is greater than the cost of the virus. How hard is that to understand?

        I am saying, as I have been now for over two weeks, that we should target resources to protecting vulnerable populations and let healthy people work. This is a cost/benefit analysis, not a suicide awareness public service announcement.

        Why is everything about feelings???? Can’t we make decisions based on facts? Here is a fact: Tens of thousands of Americans die of the flu every year. Based upon the failure of everyone on this forum to stop working in previous years, I pronounce that you don’t care about old people dying. This is the way children think.

        • 0 avatar
          JimZ

          “I am saying that the cost of shutting down the economy is greater than the cost of the virus. How hard is that to understand?”

          you have no evidence to support that, the available evidence which actually exists completely refutes your assertion, and your links to pathetic political blogs mostly concerned with protecting Trump’s reputation are NOT evidence.

      • 0 avatar
        Arthur Dailey

        @Art: Every other 1st world nation has made universal healthcare work.

        In Canada I can go to any GP or walk in clinic, no cost.
        I can be referred to the specialist of my choice and see them, no cost.
        I can go into a hospital emergency ward anytime, no cost.
        All required surgeries, tests and procedures are conducted, no cost.

        In Ontario (I have no first hand knowledge of other provinces) ambulances are operated by the local governments and staffed by 2 trained paramedics. I can call them anytime, and if there is a charge it is a maximum of $45. No charge for any supplies that they use. This also applies to the ‘air ambulance’ service.

        I can change jobs/employers anytime and my healthcare package goes with me. No transfer fee. No questionnaires. No exclusions for pre-existing conditions. No notifying anyone. My publicly issued healthcare card is good anywhere

        This means that people do not go bankrupt due to medical costs and do not avoid or postpone treatments due to medical costs.

        The doctors and hospitals and even testing clinics are paid directly by the provincial government, based on set fee schedules. Reducing or eliminating their administrative and collection costs.

        All medical/healthcare training/education in Canada is conducted at public (government sponsored/funded) universities, meaning that their tuition costs are far lower than in the private schools in the USA.

        And there is no 3rd party involved collecting fees, deciding whether or not to insure you, telling you where you have to be treated, or paying fat bonuses and dividends to executives and shareholders.

        Canadian hospitals are publicly owned/operated and are highly rated with Toronto General being recently rated as the 4th best hospital in the world. Also just in Toronto, The Hospital for Sick Children (Sick Kids), Sunnybrook Hospital (veterans ward, trauma) and Princes Margaret (Cancer Care) are also regarded as among the very best in their fields.

        I cannot comprehend why Americans do not understand and acknowledge the benefits of such a system.

        • 0 avatar
          ToolGuy

          Arthur, I partially understand and partially acknowledge the benefits of a healthcare system such as Canada has.

          I do not believe that the U.S. healthcare system is optimized currently.

          The current U.S. healthcare system is generally excellent for acute conditions – i.e., a stop sign poking through my chest.

          The current U.S. healthcare system is generally terrible for promoting actual long-term health and addressing chronic conditions – i.e., heart disease.

          [And the current system is generally good for pharmaceutical companies, generally bad for nurses – for example.]

          So the question becomes: Do I trust the powers that be to improve U.S. healthcare without making it worse?

          • 0 avatar
            Arthur Dailey

            @Toolguy, your concerns reveal a perspective that is generally unique to the USA, based on Reagan’s inaugural “the problem is the government’ speach.

            In most other nations, the majority of citizens/voters have more faith in the government than they do in privately owned/traded, for profit corporations.

            Citizens have the ability to vote out governments that they disagree with. Elected politicians are constantly scrutinized and questioned by a free media.

            And governments can, and do change direction. The current Premier of Ontario is extremely pro business and a small government endorser. Yet he has declared an emergency, closed down businesses, instituted penalties for price gouging, and used his government’s control of our electrical system to reduce prices during the crisis.

            In a free market capitalist system, the tendency is towards oligopolies. For instance the soft drink, dairy, chicken production, processed food, mass market beer and retail fuel industries are all controlled by a relatively small number of players. There is little in the way of ‘real’ competition.

            These corporations are focused on quarterly results. Often to shareholders who don’t even reside in the country where they do business. And their executives earn enough that in a few years, they can retire any where in the world and live like potentates.

            Hence, the demonstrated lack of concern regarding consumer safety or honesty demonstrated by a myriad of corporations.

            Americans need to once again put some faith in their government institutions. Something that seems to have disappeared during the LBJ presidency and the Civil Unrest of that period.

            Of course putting in time constraints on how long politicians can serve would be beneficial in this regard.

    • 0 avatar
      RHD

      It would be worthwhile to more closely examine if unemployment causes opioid addiction, or if opioid addiction causes unemployment. The latter is likely a much more frequent occurrence.

  • avatar
    thelaine

    1) the average number of fatalities per year, worldwide, attributed to seasonal flu viruses (approximately 468,000); 2) the number of reported COVID-19 fatalities to date, worldwide, per the World Health Organization (18,440); 3) the number of seasonal flu deaths in the U.S. during the 2017-18 season, i.e., two years ago (61,000); and 4) the number of U.S. COVID-19 fatalities to date, as reported by the Centers for Disease Control (737).

    • 0 avatar
      Lou_BC

      @thelaine – if your assertions are correct…then why would virtually every affected country in the world be taking measures to control the spread of SARS-CoV-2 virus???

      China took extreme measures to control it and they don’t have a very good human rights track record!

      • 0 avatar
        EGSE

        Some news sources (NBC, CNN) state there have been 1000 covid-19 deaths total in the U.S. as of today. CDC says 994, the worldometers site says 1209. Selecting 1000 as a basis, if the doubling of the death-rate per three day interval continues on the present trajectory it will result in ~128000 dead from the disease 21 days from now.

        This is an extrapolation based on today’s number but the slope of the line has stayed constant for 10 days. In some areas the hospitals are at saturation and blanket DNR orders for cv-19 patients are being floated as a possibility; this will only increase the slope. We need more isolation to break the chain of infection, not less if we want to beat this.

        April could really be ugly.

    • 0 avatar
      Maymar

      There is currently less than a million hospital beds in the US. To date, 19% of cases have been severe. Nevermind all the other people who require treatment (my understanding is that the system runs at something like 95% capacity), if just 1.5% of the population were infected simultaneously, that would overload the system. What is your confidence that will not happen?

  • avatar
    thelaine

    The tide is turning. Voices in the wilderness are starting to be heard.

    New York Governor Andrew Cuomo said Thursday that quarantining everyone together in New York City is probably not the best pubic health strategy in the fight against the spread of the Wuhan coronavirus.

    “What we did was we closed everything down. That was our public health strategy. Just close everything,” Cuomo recalled.

    He admitted during his daily press conference that he might have done things differently.

    “If you rethought that, or had time to analyze that public health strategy, I don’t know that you would say, ‘quarantine everyone,’” he said. “I don’t even know that was the best public health policy.”

    He suggested that younger people quarantined with the elderly might have spread the virus more quickly.

    “Young people then quarantined with old people was probably not the best public health strategy,’ he said. “Because the younger people could have been exposing the older people with an infection.”

    • 0 avatar
      Art Vandelay

      So far the best strategy has been to not have 8 and a half million people live in the same densely populated city. Perhaps a rethink amongst the younger generation about flocking back to urban areas en-masse may be worth a look after this shakes out.

      • 0 avatar
        thelaine

        I think you will see a lot of that, Art, particularly due to the “telecommute” option, 5G, etc…

        This episode is going to cause a lot of unpredictable change. It will be interesting to watch.

  • avatar
    thelaine

    Healthy people need to be out working. Kids need to be in school. The old and vulnerable need to be isolated and cared for. It is a much better strategy. I have been saying this for two weeks. Welcome to the party, Governor.

    You are going to be hearing more and more people seeing what was obvious from the beginning. Only fear and panic blinded people. This virus is not more deadly than the average flu. We did not need to destroy our economy to fight it. The sooner we get back to work, the better. The economic carnage is bad. It can get a lot worse.

  • avatar
    Michael S6

    The mortality from the virus is probably one in a thousand as we are only testing the very sick patients that are hospitalized. However even with this ratio you can have 100,000 deaths in this country if 1/3 of population gets infected.
    Selective quarantine is nonsense as the healthy working will infect everyone around them.
    Here in metro Detroit the hospitals are packed with corona patients and are approaching saturation level.
    There is no way this will be over or significantly better in 2 weeks for the auto plants to start up again.

    • 0 avatar
      EGSE

      “The mortality from the virus is probably one in a thousand as we are only testing the very sick patients that are hospitalized.”

      There is no data to support that hypothesis that I’m aware of. Could you post a citation we can look at? I’m not attacking you, it’s just that all the information to date strongly suggests much higher mortality numbers, usually by an order of magnitude or greater.

      When we study this in hindsight we’ll have a better grip on it. Right now the picture isn’t clear.

      • 0 avatar
        Michael S6

        it is tough to say what the actual mortality is as we don’t know the prevalence of the disease in the community. Half of patients with Corona don’t have any symptoms at all and most people with mild to moderate disease are not being tested at all because there is not enough test kits.
        My impression from Detroit area is that for every patient testing positive there are 4-10 patients that either have mild to moderate disease and can’t be tested or are asymptomatic.

  • avatar
    Art Vandelay

    Honestly CNN is reporting that Americans are approving of Trump’s handling of this. Not that that should matter, but it will. I think much of that has to do with Congressional Democrats stupidity recently (you may not agree, but perception is there and in politics that is what matters), but the approval stuff is important…it makes the President more likely to push ahead with reopening. I think he’ll get pushback from Governers though and even here in redest of the red Alabama we have shut school down for the rest of the school year so he may be alone on that.

    • 0 avatar
      JimZ

      that “approval” is coming from polls of about 1,000 people. polls are worthless.

      polls do not create reality.

      • 0 avatar
        Art Vandelay

        They absolutely create reality in this case. Trump says “I’m reopening by Easter” Trump then reads this and also notes highest approval ratings of his Presidency. Barring a massive swing, he is going to execute his plan because he believes, correctly or incorrectly, a majority of Americans approve of it.

        • 0 avatar
          EGSE

          Trump can’t *order* state or locally-enacted shutdowns to end. If he tried it would instantly get a court challenge and the time it would take to play that out would make his attempt meaningless.

          https://www.lawfareblog.com/can-federal-government-override-state-government-rules-social-distancing-promote-economy

          • 0 avatar
            ajla

            “Trump can’t *order* state or locally-enacted shutdowns to end.”

            That’s correct but if he openly declares “all clear” it would likely lead to mass noncompliance of existing orders and states/municipalities probably won’t have the manpower to strictly enforce things.

            The best move here is for states and the feds to (largely) stay on the same page. Right now no where has declared a SiP until June and no state is planning a block party.

    • 0 avatar
      golden2husky

      i read that too – 60% approve of his handling. While I give kudos to Fauci – he says what needs to be said, he is being sidelined because Trump does not want anybody taking the spotlight. I can’t believe that many Americans could give that approval level. Compare Trump’s bumbling of the entire crisis and compare that to Cuomo’s daily addresses. He may not be 100% correct and frankly he is not my personal favorite, but he know how to address the state, and the country. Last night listening to Pence ramble on what a great job the President did is sickening.

      • 0 avatar
        Art Vandelay

        I agree, but I don’t think New York has handled it much better. They should have gotten as many as they could out of the city…of course it is going to spread like crazy in that environment…This is the main drawback of urban living…you live on top of your neighbor and under the same roof.

        Maybe better than Trump who seems consumed by the poll numbers and certainly better than house Democrats at this point. However no matter where you live, it is likely your government at most levels has failed you. Some have failed you less than others. Thats the best that can be said.

        • 0 avatar
          golden2husky

          People, hence governments, generally do poorly with scenarios where the likelihood is very low but the consequences very high.

        • 0 avatar
          Daniel J

          If one looks at even the Alabama liberal social commentary, most are overwhelming supportive of Coumo and are slamming Kay Ivey for not a complete shutdown.

          I’m humble enough to understand that I have no clue of what approach is best.

          I know some counties in Florida who’ve yet to shut down in fear of looting and crime.

    • 0 avatar
      ToolGuy

      As I understand it, counties are going to be ranked as high-risk, medium-risk, low-risk. Manhattan and Pacific Heights will stay high risk. The proles in West Nowhere/flyover country will be sent back to work [regardless of actual risk] to supply the bourgeoisie who are sheltered-in-place (otherwise those Amazon trucks would be empty).

      (I’m new to Marxism, please forgive me if my terms aren’t technically perfect.)

    • 0 avatar
      RHD

      MAGA! We’re Number One!

      Yes, we are, with more COVID-19 cases than #4 Spain, #3 China and #2 Italy.

      America First!

      It’s too bad, really, that such a historically glorious situation will be completely over and done by Easter Sunday.

  • avatar
    thelaine

    26 Mar 2020
    Military.com | By Richard Sisk
    Unemployment claims for the third week of March soared to 3.28 million, a staggering and unprecedented tenfold increase from the previous week as the novel coronavirus pandemic wrecked what had been a booming economy, the Labor Department reported.

    Initial claims were 3,283,000 for the week ending March 21, the Labor Department’s Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) said in a Twitter post ahead of the release of the full report, which could signal a return to the double-digit jobless rates of the Great Recession of 2008 for veterans.

  • avatar
    thelaine

    There was no need to wreck our economy to fight this virus. Next winter we will have another corona virus along with a new version of the flu. Tens of thousands of people will die from it, mostly the elderly and the sick. We typically suffer between 20 and 60 thousand dead. What will we do?????????

    Should we or should we not destroy our economy next winter in order, supposedly, to show compassion to the elderly? If we don’t, are we selfish monsters who hate old people?

    We have taken a hammer to ourselves in a fit of hysteria. It is inexcusable and shameful. The destruction we have deliberately caused is going to devastate an untold number of families. I believe this is the first time in the history of our nation that we have deliberately sabotaged our own economy as a matter of policy.

    Our behavior is absolutely unforgivable and will not be looked upon favorably by future generations, who will see it as we see the behavior of people during the Salem witch hunts, and other such mass hysteria events.

    Poverty is the biggest killer of all; mind, spirit AND body. Those who have not experienced it have no idea what joblessness really means and have no business whatsoever preaching about compassion.

    • 0 avatar
      Art Vandelay

      Maybe you should have set some cash aside for a rainy day. I’m fine in this. So are many others I know. Yes, people are hurting but frankly you sound like the people that were brushing off AIDS in the early days as a “Gay Disease”. Then heterosexuals started getting it and all of the sudden it was an issue.

      This kills more than just old people and just letting it run its course will be terrible for the economy. What happens to home values for example in a worse case scenario? Bet that would concern you.

      • 0 avatar
        thelaine

        I don’t have to set aside cash, Art. I am still working and I do not plan to stop. I don’t think this virus has anything to do with gay people, Art, and I cannot imagine why you brought the issue up.

        Why do you think an issue only is of concern if it affects you personally? Is that how you feel about issues? As long as it doesn’t reduce the value of my house, I don’t care, but if it does, then I do care? That is pretty shallow. I am not concerned about my own finances or health and I did not form my point of view based upon those factors. Again, what is it with FEELINGS around here?

        You can see why I think people are making decisions based on emotions rather than facts. If you look at the evidence, you will also conclude that there are better approaches to confronting this virus than deliberate economic bloodletting. I think the governor of New York is coming around to the same point of view. Admittedly, he has the personality of a wooden shoe, so maybe he has an advantage in thinking dispassionately.

    • 0 avatar
      Lou_BC

      Poverty and joblessness are two different things.

      I know what its like to be unemployed. I got out of school after Taking Forest Resource Technology. The economy tanked at the same time. I found a job a year later as a security guard. Trained as a paramedic and worked both jobs and paid my way through College a second time.
      My dad survived the Great Depression.

      Mr.the laine is still trying to rationalize his position with fringe quotes and baseless assumptions.

      But hey, the rest of the world must be plain wrong and a majority of Americans too…….

      • 0 avatar
        JimZ

        “But hey, the rest of the world must be plain wrong and a majority of Americans too…….”

        some people just believe the dissenting voice is automatically right. It’s way past skepticism, more like knee-jerk adolescent contrarianism.

        • 0 avatar
          Lou_BC

          @JimZ – There is a weak correlation between low intelligence and being a Trumpster. However, there is an extremely strong correlation between a lack of knowledge/education i.e. ignorance and being a Trumpster. If one takes a Myers-Briggs test and scores extremely low on “Agreeableness”, there is a strong probability for that person to gravitate towards Trumpism.
          To @thelaines credit, he has been reasonably polite. @markf on the other hand….

  • avatar
    thelaine

    Answer this question, all you compassionate feelings people who love the elderly so very much:

    Next winter we will have another corona virus along with a new version of the flu. Tens of thousands of people will die from it, mostly the elderly and the sick. We typically suffer between 20 and 60 thousand dead. What will we do????????? Flu virus is a deadly infectious disease. If we shut down our economy, we can limit the spread of the flu virus and potentially save old people.

    Should we or should we not destroy our economy next winter in order to show compassion to the elderly? If we don’t, are we selfish monsters who hate old people?

    • 0 avatar
      JimZ

      stick it up your ***.

    • 0 avatar
      Arthur Dailey

      Each year our nations prepare for influenza. Vaccines are distributed.

      The major issue with the current pandemic is that this virus has a longer latency period and is more easily passed on than is influenza.

      Therefore it can rapidly escalate. And as our healthcare systems run at 95% of their capacity, this can result in them being overwhelmed.

      Once they are overwhelmed the health of others are put at risk. The kid hit by a car, the father who suffers a heart attack playing weekend sports, the worker who suffers a major laceration at work. If the system is overwhelmed they may not get to the hospital in time or be seen by a doctor in time. These are the types of problems created by a pandemic.

    • 0 avatar
      ToolGuy

      With the warmer weather, I have been working on my truck for the past several days – and listening to talk radio/news, if you want to call it that.

      It is suspicious how quickly messages like thelaine’s have become all the rage. We went from not-that-bad to oh-it’s-terrible to hey-would’t-it-be-a-great-thing-if-the-corporations-still-had-some-people-reporting-for-duty. Like different people all have access to the same speaking points – and the messaging changed essentially overnight.

      General comment: Some people are getting crazy on the low side with projections (it takes time for COVID-19 to kill; you can’t take the number of confirmed deaths in a city this early and divide by the city population to get a super-low ‘mortality rate’), and some people are too high with their projections (selection bias in persons tested; and the curve does not rise in a straight line forever).

      Anyway, this thing is serious, and it doesn’t become unserious just because someone (who? when?) decides [overnight] that it was a big false alarm. Doesn’t pass the sniff test.

      [Side note: Can we start the daily news briefings on time?]

    • 0 avatar
      RHD

      Wolves remove the oldest, sickest and weakest buffalo from the herd. Flu viruses do the same thing to humans. It sounds cold-hearted, but it’s nature’s way.
      It’s all just a part part of God’s design… after all, God created Man, and God created the Coronavirus.

      • 0 avatar
        Lie2me

        God also created the ability to think, reason and invent cures so that we’re not always at God’s mercy. Tricky fellow that God guy

      • 0 avatar
        Lou_BC

        “and God created the Coronavirus.”

        To hear tell, it was the Godless Chinese that created it

        ‘Whatever you to do the least of my brothers, you do unto me”
        Jesus said that.

        That means one should not allow the weak, the sick, the frail to die.

    • 0 avatar
      Lou_BC

      I wonder what @thelaine..way..to..mass..death will say one he finds out that COVID-45 extended the deadline to April 30 and says deaths will peak in 2 weeks?

      • 0 avatar
        EGSE

        And POTUS also said he may have to extend it again after that term runs out.

        “Trump extends virus guidelines, braces US for big death toll”

        “Trump, who has largely avoided talk of potential death and infection rates, cited projection models that said potentially 2.2 million people or more could have died had social distancing measures not been put in place. And he said the country would be doing well if it “can hold” the number of deaths “down to 100,000.” He said the best case for the country would be for the death rate to peak in about two weeks.”

        “Trump acknowledged that he may be forced to extend the guidelines again at the end of April, but expressed hope that by June 1, “we should be well on our way to recovery.””

        “Trump was clearly moved by the scenes from New York, particularly hard-hit Elmhurst Hospital in his native Queens.

        “I’ve been watching that for the last week on television,” he said. ”Body bags all over, in hallways. I’ve been watching them bring in trailer trucks — freezer trucks, they’re freezer trucks, because they can’t handle the bodies, there are so many of them. This is essentially in my community, in Queens, Queens, New York,” he continued. “I’ve seen things that I’ve never seen before.””

        Link so even thelaine can read it: https://apnews.com/7d851c87c07a7e0f67c245abe0d86e56

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