By on October 14, 2019

We’ve got an addendum for our latest story on how automakers should view Harley-Davidson as a cautionary tale. The company, which recently began exploring electric motorcycles as a way to boost sales and spur public interest, recently told dealers not to expect deliveries of its newest model.

The $29,799 LiveWire that was supposed to start re-arriving this month is again delayed.

According to The Wall Street Journal, the manufacturer claims there’s an issue with the all-electric bike’s charging equipment — something that will obviously need to be addressed before it goes on sale. As a result, H-D is pulling the production plug on the two-wheeled EV. 

“This is disappointing for all of us,” Michelle Kumbier, the company’s chief operating officer, wrote in a dealer memo intercepted by the outlet.

We asked a few H-D dealerships to verify the claims. Most said they hadn’t planned on carrying the LiveWire this year, with one confirming the delay and apologizing. It should be said that the manufacturer is adamant about dealerships using specific types of chargers. WSJ noted that the brand also wanted customers to use “professional type” chargers at home, but most of the marketing materials indicated the bike would function with any household outlet.

While no dangers are said to stem from the charging problem, Harley-Davidson has not issued a timetable for the fix, postponing deliveries (and production) indefinitely until one can be implemented. Since the model isn’t officially supposed to be on sale yet, it’s unlikely the few in dealer possession have left the premises — meaning H-D won’t have to issue any consumer recalls.

Small miracles, we suppose. But this is another dark smudge on the brand’s already spotted resume that might have been avoidable. While we cannot presume Harley-Davidson rushed the LiveWire to market (possibly to beat winter), there may still have been a way around this that didn’t involve stalling production. While H-D isn’t spelling anything out for automakers, it’s still being generous with its lessons.

[Image: Harley-Davidson]

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55 Comments on “Indefinitely Delayed: Harley-Davidson LiveWire Update...”

  • avatar

    Ford should have done this with the new Explorer and Aviator.

  • avatar

    I suppose the next time a conventionally powered vehicle is late to market, it’ll be a cautionary tale against making conventionally powered vehicles…?

    • 0 avatar
      Matt Posky

      No. It’ll still be a cautionary tale about rushing products to market, just like this was. Hurriedly chasing down EVs just for the sake of having one will likely be its own lesson.

      • 0 avatar

        Come on, they’re not allowed to have some issues with a completely new product? I mean, if Ford can botch the launch of the Explorer – a run-of-the-mill CUV and a nameplate it’s been producing for almost 30 years – and that’s not a cautionary tale against building run-of-the-mill CUVs, shouldn’t we expect Harley Davidson to have some issues introducing a completely new product?

        Agreed, Harley blew this, and bad on them, but I’d say the real lesson is that chasing down *anything* for the sake of having one is a mistake, and that *anything* doesn’t need to be electrically powered.

        • 0 avatar
          Matt Posky

          Then it doesn’t sound like we disagree.

          • 0 avatar

            The cautionary tale is that you want to work out issues and build experience while the market is new and small. You can’t wait until someone starts mass-producing 2kW/kg cells at $25/kWh and the market booms overnight. Then you’re really scrambling to get something out where all your competitors have to do is change a few part numbers and increase production. Look at what happened to Eastman Kodak, Polaroid, and even Baldwin Locomotive. Camera companies like Canon and Sony jumped into the digital photography market when it was a joke. They’re still around producing high-end cameras. Baldwin, the largest locomotive company at one point, thought steam locomotives would dominate until the 1980s. They’re gone now. Wait too long to deal with a technology change and you get burned.

          • 0 avatar


            Eastman Kodak invented the digital camera, and I believe had the first viable consumer model you could buy in market back in 1996 (we had one at my work). They just never went anywhere with their lead, and Sony came out with what was the first successful mass market digital camera that used floppy discs like film cartridges. The Kodak used removable memory (I might even have some old cards laying around with no way to read them) with the advantage of writing the data faster.

          • 0 avatar

            mcs, are you sure about that?

            It was my understanding that Sony in conjunction with Nikon, Canon, Asahi/Pentax, Minolta et al undertook that project decades ago.

            It was never feasible for wide-scale public use until the cost of CCDs came down and pixel count went up.

            Please, feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.

          • 0 avatar

            At Kodak, Steve Sasson created a digital camera using Fairchild CCDs in 1975 (US patent 4,131,919). It produced images 100×100. Kodak didn’t want to develop it further because they thought it would threaten their film business according to Sasson. The Sony Mavica came along in 1981, but recorded analog TV stills. There was the Fuji DSP-1 in 1988, but it never sold. The first real consumer digital camera was the 1990 DyCam aka Logitech photoman. It was 6 months before the Kodak DCS 1. In time, they had the DCS25 which was the first to use compact flash, but there was a lot of competition at that time.

            I think what I’m trying to say is that they had a huge jump on everyone in 1975, but blew it not recognizing that they had a technology that would take over eventually. If they had kept putting resources into the project and pushing the technology, they could have been leaders. Instead, they were trying to protect their bread and butter technology that was dominant at the time.

            To be fair, Canon and other camera companies didn’t have an investment in film and maybe that made the difference.


          • 0 avatar

            Kodak invented digital camera and OLED display technology. But they decided to shelve this tech because it endangered their traditional film business. What they did not understand that other companies also will sooner than later discover the same technology and then put Kodak out of business. It is impossible to stop progress. Regarding OLED Kodak was not capable of mass production. In the end Kodak was chemical company. Kodak was also first to come with set box similar to Roku. But again they did not develop it further. Their main problem as I see it – they are from East coast and not from West coast – they are too conservative.

          • 0 avatar

            mcs & ILO, thanks, that’s the way I remember it as well.

            Lotta history there, and we’ve sure come a long, long way since 100X100.

            My Nikon DSLR has 25MP and it is pretty damn old, by today’s standards.

        • 0 avatar

          The real lesson, which I repeatedly learned the hard way during my working career, is to never, ever tell the boss about a cool project until you’re sure it’s actually ready for prime time. If you do tell him before it’s done, he will get excited and announce it and there is nothing that you can say that will stop him. Worst case is if you have a prototype cobbled together. I mean, if you made one that (kind of, for a little while) works, you can make 100,000, right? Duh!

          Summon the marketing department!

          After the marketeers have sent our their pictures and the world is waiting, it finally occurs to the boss to have some costing done, and to bring in the accounting people. THAT MUCH? Well, it’s a halo project anyhow. We’ll just build 100.

          The next step is that he will become convinced that he can speed up the research and development by bullying everyone involved. There’s no law of economics, engineering, or physics that can’t be overcome by threatening to fire people, right? I mean it worked for VW on their Diesel engine pollution problem, right?

          Finally, the dream either appears on the market fatally compromised (see Fiero, Solistice , Cimmaron ,et al).

          Or – see Harley Davidson.

          • 0 avatar

            Conservative is good. “Progressive” Left Coast wackos are bad.

            There is value in keeping things the same. I still use a film camera. I still use records and tapes. I don’t use a smartphone. I won’t ever buy an electric vehicle. And I don’t give a rat’s ass what young people want.

          • 0 avatar

            Your comment reminds me of the development, marketing, and failure of Cannondale motorcycles. They were so overtaken with getting a bike to market that they finished R & D with the consumers. A long-time company rep told me about the meeting where they decided to ship bikes with the still-gestating Cannondale engine instead of fitting Rotax engines. Every bike shipped with what was essentially a hand-built prototype engine, with parts modified on-the-fly, on the assembly line.

          • 0 avatar

            I found the Boomer. no worries, you’ll be irrelevant soon as you wither away in a nursing home.

          • 0 avatar


            I once worked in the engineering lab of a company that made a very profitable portable printing terminal. We were working on a prototype new model that was improved in every way. We had just completed the working prototype when some idiot dragged the sales guys into the lab. They insisted on showing it at the Comdex show the following month.

            Over our very loud protests, they got their way.

            The customers all canceled their existing orders and cash flow dried up as “old” inventory piled up. Seven month later the company filed for bankruptcy.

      • 0 avatar

        1923 Chevrolet Copper-Cooled

  • avatar

    I wouldn’t hold out high hopes for a brand renaissance based on the electric motor cycle. 9 out of 10 Harley buyers probably aren’t interested in anything that is not annoying AF to everyone within a quarter mile.

    You ever see the Harley Davidson South Park episode? There is so much truth to that episode I could spit my drink out just thinking of it.

    I can appreciate wanting to keep a storied American Brand around but really feel that HD has some image problems that would prevent it from broadening its appeal.

    • 0 avatar

      ^^^ Yes

      Unless it has all-weather speakers to simulate that um…unique HD sound, most Harley fans would rather be seen riding a rice grinder. Hell, there would be no excuse for them weaving though stopped traffic on a EV bike that never overheats.

  • avatar

    I suspect Harley’s biggest problem is my generation is simply poor.

    We also didn’t grow up with motorcycles.

    Combine the two and honestly, the entire motorcycle industry is in trouble in the USA.

    I mean look at the sports car / convertible markets as well. Their sales are in the toilet as well.

    Frankly, we like roomy, quiet, air conditioning, safety, and cheap. Toys like motorcycles or Miatas just simply won’t happen no matter how much we may want them to.

    And even if the money is there we are all stuck in small homes with small garages or apartment complexes etc.

    The positive? We like “experiences” And you could argue if you like motorcycles, it is all about the experience.

    Harley is screwed, and so is everyone else IMHO.

    • 0 avatar

      The low cost E-Bike market is growing and seems to be doing well. Maybe a Harley Davidson 1901 inspired e-bike would do well? Have one of the experienced players design and build it. Sell it at Harley dealers. Then when the owners decide they need to move up, have something low cost to step up to. Then, they’re starting to get some showroom traffic.

    • 0 avatar

      The problem with HD is their generation is old, fat, and telling the younger generation to “work and you shall be rewarded”.

      Younger generations don’t like to follow the old ways and wait in line for their turns for toys and excesses that the older generations got lucky and work hard on (getting lucky post WWII is a big part of it).

      Younger generations are fine with Japanese sport bikes or no bikes at all, heck they are even fine with no cars. Cars and bikes don’t get them laid, Tinder and smart phones do. So why bother?

  • avatar

    As a life long motorcyclist (and Harley critic) I have to wonder exactly what Harley is thinking. When people think of electric vehicles they think hi tech. The last thing any person, esp a motorcyclist think when they hear Harley is “Hi Tech”

    100 or so years of it’s existence are based on the exact opposite. I can’t see the aging baby boomers flocking to 30K electric motorcycles, the young can’t afford them and most motorcyclist have very little interest in electric bikes, Harley or otherwise. So that leaves wealthy white dudes looking for toys. That works for mega yachts and super cars but not sure that a 30K motorcycle is a sustainable business model.

    Harley waited waaaaay to long to update their business model. They went for short term profit and you can’t blame them, mid 2000ks baby boomers using their houses as ATMs buying 20K Harey so they can play Billy Badass on the weekends. The average age of a (the non female) Harely buyer has been steadily rising and soon that age will be dead. Electric bikes are not the way out……

    • 0 avatar
      R Henry

      Harley Davidson is thinking “PANIC!!!”

      Fat Boy and Road Glide aficionados are getting too old for motorcycles, and so far, millennials have proven disinterested in getting abused by dealers who charge $40.00 for black teeshirts and $20k for obsolete tech two-wheelers.

  • avatar

    LOL. Harley Davidson bikes are so lame.

  • avatar

    $30k and you have to be associated by default with those bearded baby boomer goons with leather jackets? LOL.

    H-D is done for. I’m surprised they haven’t already gone under but when they have customers buying jackets from their dealerships for $700, maybe I shouldn’t be.

  • avatar
    White Shadow

    An electric motorcycle made by Harley Davidson would probably suck anyway. Wait, that was Dyson.

  • avatar

    Maybe this ‘undisclosed problem’ is just HD realizing this whole idea is a dud, and they just want to bail.

    Plus, it likely would have leaked oil on the driveway anyhow ;)

  • avatar

    Closest analogy to Harley-Davidson in the ‘automotive’ world is the Ford F-150 (it’s no coincidence that there is/was a Harley-Davidson special edition).

    [I suppose any analogy breaks down here though, because as the inventor and perfecter of mass production and the assembly line, Ford’s lead and mastery is unassailable by any possible competitor who will ever exist anywhere on the planet. You could even say they are “future-proof”. The Ford family can definitely relax, as their fortune is secure for all time.]

    Now what would make this analogy really interesting is if Ford were to ever consider an electric powertrain in an F-150…

  • avatar
    SCE to AUX


    LiveWire has a 15.5 kWH battery (146 mile range), with the following claims from their web site:
    1. Level 1 Compatible – 13 miles for each hour of charging
    2. Level 2 Compatible – same rate as level 1
    3. DC Fast Charge (DCFC) – 0-80% in 40 minutes. 0-100% in 60 minutes.

    So it looks like it can fast charge at about 18 kW, but the Level 2 charging makes no sense to me. Level 1 is 110V, likely maxed at 12 Amps, but Level 2 is typically 240V at 30+ Amps, or roughly 6-7 kW in practice.

    They’ve gimped the Level 2 charging by a factor of 5, which makes home charging a chore.

    Interestingly, some EV car drivers are already utilizing H-D chargers at the H-D dealers, getting 21+ kW. But some have found that Chargepoint is seriously price-gouging. The dealers have to be vexed to see Bolts and Teslas using their chargers, while they don’t even have product to sell.

    It’s a mess.

  • avatar
    Art Vandelay

    For what they are asking price wise, this should be a zero compromise vehicle. It isn’t. There are electric bikes that are better and honestly at it’s price a Nissan Leaf makes more sense.

    Simply marketing an EV isn’t enough anymore…it needs to be good and if you are going to charge exponentially more than your competetion it needs to be very good.

    Yes, Harley Davidson will die with the Boomers at this point. They failed to reach Gen-X, let alone any successive generation. They need a game changer…something people want to buy because it is a good bike, not because “It’s a Harley”. But Harley has failed every time they have tried this over the past 25+ years. This bike should be a Buell. Too bad they killed it. They tried again with the V-Rod…and failed. I don’t think they are going to last.

    • 0 avatar

      A lot of people online get misty-eyed about Buell. I’ve never ridden one, but from what I can tell they were just another gundam-looking sporty motorcycle that happened to be built in Wisconsin.
      If that’s the sort of thing you’re into then I can see the appeal, but I still believe there is a sizeable market of newer riders that want neither sport bikes nor scooters. The problem for HD is that they come with big prices and big baggage so many of those buyers are going elsewhere.

      • 0 avatar

        I think HD needs their version of a Ducati Scrambler. Some might argue that’s the 883 Sportsters but those motorcycles are from a different era.

        Harley needs something thats weight and performance competitive with the competition for lower priced bikes. Anybody remember the xr1200? Great idea, mediocre execution. Harley has the cruiser market covered. They bring knives to gunfights in other sectors.

  • avatar
    Jeff S

    After all the baby boomers stop riding there will not be much of a market for Harleys. I doubt an overpriced electric Harley will go over any better than the New Coke did. Both are flat and lack an fiz.

  • avatar

    Soon to be updated on Wikipedia:

    Harley Davidson

    Parent Organization: Caterpillar Inc.

  • avatar

    I’m not into bikes, but 29k is about 15k too much even accounting for HD branding and uniqueness. My boomer car/motorcycle loving uncle who always had a Harley and owns a 56 Chevy is on either a Kawasaki or Yamaha of some sort. It’s not that he can’t afford it(he’s had multiple new and used ones), it’s that he doesn’t want to. And the foreign bikes are generally lighter and easier on old, workingman’s knees.

    If I did learn to ride, I don’t want a Harley either. Too much damn money and an image I don’t want. The guys at South Park nailed it with that long-ago episode. LOOK AT ME!! LOOK HOW LOUD I AM!!!

    • 0 avatar

      Even though I’m a boomer, I agree. I bought my 650 Ninja nine years ago and paid $5500 for it as a leftover. I just can’t see spending $20K or more on a new bike. Plus, my little Ninja has been incredibly reliable and is a joy to ride. People who see it can’t believe it’s almost ten years old.

      My one modification was to switch to a Corbin seat which cost about 10% of what I paid for the bike.

    • 0 avatar

      “It’s not that he can’t afford it(he’s had multiple new and used ones), it’s that he doesn’t want to.”

      This is a key point. There’s plenty of quality used bikes on the market. I peruse cycletrader every so often and come across scores of 3-4 year old bikes, four thousand or less miles, selling for half or less of it’s new price.

      As with cars, there’s a certain segment of the market that buys new. For everyone else a quality used bike, at a greatly reduced price is a great option.

  • avatar

    As a life-long motorcyclist, I struggle to see the value in electric motorcycles here in the US.

    At best, they are niche products.

  • avatar
    Thomas Kreutzer

    I have about 25 years of motorcycle riding under my belt and it wasn’t until just a few years ago that I finally rode my first Harley. I was on a trip to Hawaii and happened across a place that rented them in Waikiki so I decided to give it a go.

    At the time, back home, I was riding a ’91 GSXR1100 that had some serious mods. I owned it for about 5 years and it is the only bike I have ever ridden that I thought was just too much for the street. It was an utter beast and I was glad that I already had the age and experience to control myself with it. Had I been younger, I’d probably be dead now.

    So the HD, which I think was one of their Heritage Softails, was a serious step down and I wasn’t expecting very much from it. But you know what? I really liked it!

    The serious weight everyone talks so much about was held way down low and the bike balanced well with even the slowest roll. I learned then why they use these for parades. Out on the road it ran out fine, nowhere near the power of my GSXR, but still did fine and sounded really great – it rumbled almost like an old V8 car. The seat was comfortable and it was easy to use. The downsides were the bike’s weird and kind of cheap switchgear and its low clearance as I banged something on the bike’s bottom a couple of times diving into turns a little too deep. Overall, though, I came away impressed.

    A year or two later I sold my GSXR and hung up my spurs for a few years. Today I am back on two wheels but riding small scooters because all I really need is something to carry me the mile or so between the train station and home and I’m OK with that. But I have to say, even though I am not a Harley guy and have no interest in joining any of their clubs, I enjoy their bikes and I’d shop them right along with Guzzi and any one of the older Japanese retro bikes like the ZRX1200 and the CB1000 Super Four or some of the more vintage Japanese iron like the GS1000E or G.

    I’d honestly like HD to succeed here. I think the sport suffers when choices become more limited. I think it was a mistake for them to try and ride the nostalgia train as long as they have, but it’s nice to see them trying new things. As I said before in the other post, however, I’m not sure a high priced E-bike is a “solution.” Let’s hope they get their act back together soon.

    • 0 avatar

      what strikes me is how diametrically opposed car enthusiasts and bike enthusiasts are. a car guy will ask for something like a Miata, 86, or “give me a ’60s muscle car but with modern FI engine, suspension and brakes.” A bike enthusiast thinks anything but an insane barely-road legal superbike is beneath them, even if they’d kill themselves trying to use even 25% of its capabilities.

      • 0 avatar
        Thomas Kreutzer

        I think it seems that way from the outside looking in, but the truth is that there are just as many people with specific interests inside of motorcycling as there are groups inside of cars.

        HD people were getting the old muscle car with the more modern engines. I think this is roughly analogous to people buying Chargers and Challengers these days. Old school looks with better tech and QC than in the old days.

        The superbikers are people who just want to go fast. They’re the supercar crowd on a budget, I think. That’s where I was for much of the time I rode. In fact, I used to tell people that I was just a “car guy” who had been priced out of the fast car market.

        Beyond that there are all sorts of specialty bikes – enduros, tourers, motards and the rapidly disappearing “universal or standard bikes.” There is just about anything that anyone could want and that’s not even scratching the used market where people like me pine after the bikes we wanted but never got back in the day…

        The funny thing is, as I sit here and think about it, the car companies better be careful with all the nostalgia they are marketing. Although they are backing it up with some serious performance in some cases, they are leaning pretty heavily on the retro-badass badges and looks. I wonder if there will come a day when their own market starts to age out?

  • avatar
    87 Morgan

    Other HD thoughts I have…

    The most common enhancement i have been noticing of late for HD’s is the ‘trike’ option/upfit/upgrade/necessity. This to me clearly means the end is near as the boomer dudes are now too week or too fat most likely both to keep the HD upright at a stop light regardless if their ‘old lady’ is riding along or not.

    What a shame really. I actually feel for the franchise owners a bit. Most have worked hard to build an enterprise that is worthless.

  • avatar

    Can’t wait for this stupid stubby-tail trend to be over. It takes a potentially useful UJM / Standard motorcycle and turns it into a one-rider, zero-cargo poseurcycle. You can’t even use throwover saddlebags without relocating the turn signals.

    It’s not unlike the low towing limits on North American cars these days; all designed to force consumers into higher-margin speciality vehicles.

    • 0 avatar

      ” It takes a potentially useful UJM / Standard motorcycle and turns it into a one-rider, zero-cargo poseurcycle. You can’t even use throwover saddlebags without relocating the turn signals.”

      or maybe- just maybe- that doesn’t matter to that many people? if I need to carry something while on my FZ I just put it in my backpack. and I’ve never had a passenger on it. I rarely see two-up riding on anything other than full-dress baggers.

    • 0 avatar

      Horses for courses. There are plenty of bikes you can buy that will take saddlebags. This is not one of them. That’s OK. Choice is good.

      • 0 avatar

        Choice is good if you have room for 3 or 4 bikes in your garage. Not so good when you’re looking for a single bike, and everything you find is chopped up, adventurized, hipsterized, or otherwise compromised in some dumb way.

  • avatar

    HD’s fundamental problem is that it evolved as a lazy company, catering to a temporary niche market that had fat wallets and low expectations.

    Reinventing themselves as a fashion apparel line, e-bike company, etc. is one way to go. Another optional is to pare their current lineup down to 2 or 3 legacy models and license them out to Polaris or Yamaha (two major competitors who previously gave up on the cruiser bike sector due to excess supply).

    All we know for sure is that they can’t keep doing what they’ve been doing.

  • avatar

    This reminds of when a MotoGP bike engine blows up in a race, and they say it was an electrical issue.

    A rod punching a hole through the stator is an effect, not a cause lol.

    I hope H-D pulls through as I really would hate for those folks to lose their jobs. They need to go head to head with Ducati’s Scrambler sub brand.

  • avatar
    Eric the Red

    Lot of Haters on here today! I think it looks good (if they finished the tail end) but my opinion. Name any other electric bikes that look any better. Range is a concern on any electric vehicle and the first model is never a “range topper”. You have to learn and get better. Would people just want Harley D to roll over and not try anything new? They have built a lot of old style big bikes and they have sold a lot of old style big bikes. Times change and demographics change. Harley is trying to change with it. I hope they can stay on top because they make good stuff. I have had many motorcycles and currently have a big Kawasaki cruiser that the big attraction is that it looks like a Harley. One of these days I will probably step up and spend the money for a real Harley. It isn’t that the Harley is a better bike, it is because it is Big, American made and designed, Lots of history to it, and it sounds awesome. All bike companies, whether they admit it or not, look to chase Harley in some way. Style, feel, sound, profitability, etc. Get on a Harley Davidson motorcycle and feel what it means.

  • avatar

    This where GM electrification initiative is headed. The strikers know this all too well. Electric vehicles are the purchase choice of the socially conscious rich. The Bolt is still GM’s worse selling vehicle for the second year running.

  • avatar

    Maybe Harley executives realized that aging boomers will only pay exorbitant amounts of money for outdated V-twins?

  • avatar

    Conceptually, electric motorcycles make a lot of sense. The most expensive part of an EV is the battery, and it doesn’t take nearly as big a battery to move a motorcycle as a car. Range is always an issue, but range with a puny gas tank between your knees is an issue too; most people use their bike as either a short distance commuter or a toy.

    This thing, on the other hand, does not make sense. It’s no faster to charge on level 2 than level 1? Really? Is that a misprint? Most people have a garage outlet, and many people have a dryer outlet, but nobody has, and nobody ever will have, a level 3 (DC Fast) charger at home.

    Thirty grand? Really? I mean, I get that it makes cool loud noises of the sci-fi movie variety, and CAN fast-charge, and doesn’t look like a bicycle. So, kudos to H-D over Zero and all the rest. But thirty grand?

    Also, and most importantly: is anyone clamoring for this type of vehicle at the annual methamphetamine dealer’s convention or on Fox & Friends? Because if not, then it’s not in the H-D demographic. ;-)

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