By on July 26, 2019

2018 Buick Regal TourX

When it comes to getting a deal on a new car, I’ve definitely been at both ends of the spectrum. I’ve paid MSRP for cars that were selling well above (see: Boss 302, Focus RS), and I’ve negotiated like crazy to save thousands below sticker, too. But my best deal I ever got was on a 2004 Mazda RX-8 that was still on the lot in June 2005. I ultimately paid $23,000 for a car that had an original MSRP of $31,500.

It wasn’t easy.

It took visits to three different dealerships, multiple return visits to the dealership where I actually purchased the car, and some, er, creative paperwork on the part of the dealer to get the deal through financing (I signed up for a LOT of credit cards on Ohio State’s campus when I was a student. Don’t judge me, they were giving away 2-liters of soda). All in all, it took about three weeks to get the Sunlight Silver RX-8 touring to its permanent home in my apartment complex’s garage.

But if you really want to steal a car, buying the previous model year is always a great way to get an initial win, especially if you plan to keep the car past the majority of its depreciation curve. Today’s Ask Bark deal’s with just such a scenario, but will our shopper be able to find the deal he wants? Click the jump to find out.

Hi Mark,

I’ve been looking into replacing my current daily driver with something newer, and typically I would look to buy a CPO model from one of the luxury brands like BMW or Mercedes. I currently drive a 2015 528i I bought with the certified warranty. I read a lot of articles online about people getting amazing deals on new cars, and my tastes tend to fall towards cars that not everyone likes. The BMW is the first purchase I had made in a while that wasn’t a low volume model or wagon. 

Some of the cars I’m interested in are the kind that tend to have leftover 2018s still on the lot here in Southern California where I live. Examples includes the Buick TourX, Fusion Sport, and also Mazda6 Signature models. When I do a nationwide search I see models going for $10-$15k off sticker (especially for the Buick), but not always here. What kind of deals can I expect and is it the same everywhere? I don’t want to waste people’s time at these dealerships by completely low balling them but I’m looking for an amazing deal if go with one of these cars.

Thanks,

Steve

No, thank you for your question, Steve-O. I’m going to share with you (and our loyal Ask Bark fans, both of them) my secrets for buying leftover inventory, and hope that you are able to use them to your advantage.

1. Be Prepared To Travel

You mentioned that you haven’t been able to find the same pricing in SoCal that you can in other places around the country. Unfortunately, you live in one of the worst car shopping markets in the nation. Inventory tends to be overpriced in SoCal, as a whole, thanks to the ridiculous cost of living. That being said, Penske Buick GMC of Cerritos appears to be blowing these suckers out the door. The fine print indicates that there’s some GM cash available that you have to qualify for, but if I’ve learned anything about buying Buicks, it’s that their dealers are willing to wave the magic wand in the F&I office to make shit happen.

However, if the deal isn’t as advertised, as it often isn’t, then don’t be afraid to hit up dealers across the region, or even the country. Saving $10k is worth a $600 flight or $700 delivery charge. Just make sure that you get errrrrrrything in writing (and preferably signed) before you buy that plane ticket. I know of too many stories where a one-way ticket turned into a round-trip ticket when the dealer tried to leverage the customer’s predicament of being a thousand miles away from home with no other way home into an extra grand of profit.

2. Be Prepared To Compromise

When you’re buying a leftover car, the chances of you getting exactly the color, trim level, and options you want are pretty slim. In my story, I wanted a sport model RX-8, preferably in Nordic Green. Unbelievably, I found one at a Mazda dealer on the east side of Cincinnati, exactly the way I wanted it — but the dealer was shady as hell. Mazda was offering a $4,000 rebate to anybody willing to take an ’04 RX-8 off the hands of a dealer, and this particular dealership decided to act as though that rebate didn’t exist when they drew up the initial offer. I reacted by saying a phrase that has a time-honored tradition in the Baruth family — “Let’s get the fuck out of here!”

I ended up with a Sunlight Silver Touring model with a sunroof and ground effects, because that was the only other 2004 RX-8 in the Greater Cincinnati Area. In this day and age, I might have used the power of the internet to my advantage to locate another Nordic Green Sport model, but that color and trim combo was admittedly very rare. If you find yourself in the same boat, you’ll have to decide how much the color and trim level you want really means to you. You might end up with something else that you’ll be nearly as happy with, but for a whole lot less money.

3. Be Prepared To Walkaway

In most cases, there is a reason that a dealership has a car leftover from the previous model year well into the next. In many of these instances, it’s because you’re dealing with a rather unpopular car. That’s certainly the case with the Regal you mentioned — there are 554 of them left in nationwide inventory on Cars.com. There are only about 2,000 Buick GMC dealers in the entire country, which means that about one in four is stuck with one of these floorplan anchors.

However, the other reason could be that the dealer is a unrepentant, money-grubbing douchebag. You may find that some of these guys will deal even harder on aged inventory. If you come across a dealer like this, don’t waste any more of your time — there are 553 other Regals out there.

4. Just Be Prepared, Period

You asked if the deals will be the same everywhere. The answer is — probably. There are rare exceptions where an OEM may offer a rebate in one part of the country and not another, but the cash on the hood should be similar. Before you contact any dealers, do some research and find out what rebates are being offered. Be wary of the dealer who tries to pocket that rebate, like the Mazda dealer above. That rebate should be the starting point for your negotiations, though, not the ending point. Remind the dealer that it’s almost August, and that in about another month or so, the 2020s will be arriving. Do they really want a car that’s two model years old?

Conclusion

At the end of the day (or model year), you’ll have to decide if going down this path is worth the significantly more time and effort it will take  you as opposed to just going down to the Bimmer lot and picking out another CPO lease return. For me, it was. For you? Only you know that.


Send your stupid questions to Bark at [email protected] and he will assuredly answer them. Sometime. Someday. Somehow. 

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55 Comments on “Ask Bark: Let’s Make A Deal (On Leftover Inventory)...”


  • avatar
    PrincipalDan

    BTW for buying a 2018 TourX I got THREE complimentary oil changes and tire rotations but if I had bought a 2019 I would have received only TWO complimentary oil changes and tire rotations.

    According to the dealer that was Buick/GMs flip flop on service for those MY vehicles.

    (And yes that illustrates GM’s stupidity. Can’t even keep that consistent for a brand.)

    • 0 avatar
      Lefty54

      Did they offer to throw in a spare tire?

    • 0 avatar
      APaGttH

      GM changed the “free” maintenance program from 3 in 3 years or 36K to 2 in 2 years or 24K miles for 2019. Even TTAC wrote about it.

      Why is that an issue? You mean no other automaker in the history of autos has changed warranties or coverages from one model year to another?

      Really?

      REALLY???

      • 0 avatar
        PrincipalDan

        When you do things like that it makes you look “cheap” or “petty”.

        GM had a 5 year/100,000 mile powertrain warranty for several years in the mid oughts. When they canceled it to go backwards on coverage it made them look like they had less confidence in their vehicles.

        • 0 avatar
          jkross22

          I’m with Dan on this. When BMW cheaped out not only on their maintenance plans but also chopping their CPO warranty in half, it was more proof that the cheapening of the brand was at the top of Munich’s mind.

          It’s never a good look when a brand does stupid.

    • 0 avatar
      redgolf

      So, you saved $42 and still have to wait an hour or more, that’s been my case on the wait time for an oil/tire rotation, even though I had an appointment, but I’m retired so have plenty of time to hang around and google eye all of the Corvettes, Cads and Big Buicks, that I can’t afford, free coffee to boot!

      • 0 avatar
        ToolGuy

        redgolf,

        I’m close to deciding that I don’t like other people working on my family’s cars. I got a new windshield and I now have a possible sealing/wind noise issue. The tire shop guys sent me out of their shop with way too much air in the tires (two different cars) – plus stripped the plastic lug nuts on my son’s wheel covers.

  • avatar
    retrocrank

    in 1989 I saw a car I really really wanted on a local dealer’s lot. Looking at the color, configuration, and price, I (correctly) figured there was exactly one potential buyer in the 5 county region of rural northwest Ohio, and that would be me. So I drove by about monthly just to check, and after a year walked in and offered about 30% less than sticker (25k vs. 35k). And the dealer took it with really no further haggling. I kept that car for 15 years, selling it only because of a need to fund a career change.

  • avatar
    427Cobra

    No… go ahead and waste their time… they will waste PLENTY of yours, playing the “make ’em wait/wear ’em down” sales tactic. DO NOT have a trade… sell it yourself or sell it to CarMax… remove that variable from the equation. Have financing pre-arranged. If they can beat it… fine. If they tell you the deal is contingent on using THEIR financing… walk (or threaten to). They’re just screwing the manufacturer (instead of, or including you) to get their money.

    I spent nearly 7 hours at the dealership (not including 2 previous visits) when I bought my Focus ST (ST3 trim) last fall. It was a leftover ’17 model, & most of the ’18s were already gone. Sticker was $31,330… I bought for $23,447… a decent deal, tho not overly spectacular. I told them right up-front that I wanted 25% off… and stuck to my guns. By the time I got to financing, I was so exhausted (and pissed) when they said the deal was contingent on their financing, but that, if I wanted, I could re-fi after 90 days (total BS). I went ahead with it, knowing I would re-fi. My credit union told me to bring the paperwork in as soon as I got the DMV registration… which I did 2 weeks later. The dealership’s rate was nearly 5%… and my credit score is over 840. I did a re-fi at 2.5%. Even at that, I’ll probably pay it off early. But they love to wear you down. Granted, not all dealerships are like that. When I bought my ’16 Ram 2500 Tradesman, it was the absolute BEST buying experience I’ve ever had. I dealt with the Internet Manager. Negotiations took all of 5 minutes. I was through Finance & Insurance in under 20 minutes… no up-selling. I spent most of my time waiting for the truck to be cleaned & detailed. Sticker was $45.8k… I bought for $35.2k… and got financing below 2%. Happy with the truck… happy with the deal. Good luck in your endeavor!

  • avatar
    shappy

    I just bought a brand new 2018 Boxster GTS for 15% off MSRP that happened to be equipped almost exactly as I would have ordered one. Local dealers wanted full MSRP to place that same order.

    Sure, I had to get it from 1400 miles away, but that was an easy choice.

    • 0 avatar
      highdesertcat

      An ever-increasing number of people are doing that now, traveling for the better deal and the exact car. A friend of mine recently bought a car through USAA and found it in San Antonio, TX. He lives in Belle Fourche, SD.

      He took an airplane ride down to SATX, the dealership picked him up at the airport, drove him to the dealership where he took delivery of his new car, full of gas, and road ready for the trip back home.

      • 0 avatar
        shappy

        That is what I did back in 1997 when I flew from Ft. Lauderdale to Mesa, AZ to buy a ’98 Z/28. Got a speeding ticket less than an hour after leaving the dealer for the drive back to FL.

        • 0 avatar
          theflyersfan

          Damn…the officer wouldn’t even let you break the car in? Outside of Mesa heading east, what was there besides desert? Red Z/28, right? That was it!!! :-)

    • 0 avatar
      SunnyvaleCA

      Thanks to the 2008 financial crisis, I picked up a 2008 Cayman S in September 2009. I shouldn’t say “picked up” though, as I had it delivered from half-way across the country. Just fax some documents back and forth and a brand new car delivered to my driveway no money down! Porsche Inc was running a 1.9% 5-year loan program, so I took that so as not to have to wire $$$ to a dealer in a different state that I had little way to verify. Anyway, $66k sticker was mine for $48k + $1.5k shipping and another $4k California sales tax + another $1k first-year’s registration + another $75 smog check (yes, on a new car brought into the state). 27% discount wasn’t bad! Car was configured close to what I would have wanted anyway.

      If you’re buying a brand new car with factory warranty, what’s the downside of buying sight unseen out of state?

      • 0 avatar
        deanst

        I got my Saturn during GM’s going out of business sale – essentially a 50% discount to MSRP.

      • 0 avatar
        krhodes1

        I bought a 2008 Saab 9-3 SportCombi in the ’09 GM/Saab firesale for $14K off MSRP. Who would have thought that a white-on-white stickshift station wagon with no butt heat in Boston would have stuck around for 18 months, never mind what was going on with Saab at the time?

        This year I got $8K off on my leftover ’18 Fiata.

  • avatar
    SCE to AUX

    I got my 13 Optima Hybrid new in May 2014. Kia was offering $6000 off, and I talked them down a bit more, to get it for $20k. They were eager to clear out unpopular leftover inventory, and I got a mid-size for the same price as a compact.

  • avatar
    Fred

    My TSX wagon was one the lot for over 9 months and the sales guy said no one ever came in and asked to see it. So negotiation was pretty easy.

  • avatar
    tinbad

    Huh? I thought (southern) California is one of the most competitive markets with some of the best deals. A quick glance at sites like Edmunds and Leasehackr seems to confirm that.

    Also I was always taught to negotiate before any rebates because these won’t come out of the dealers pocket anyway. I’ve always had to sign some document in F&I that confirmed the rebates so very surprised that dealers are even able to pocket it if they wanted to…

    • 0 avatar
      genuineleather

      Yeah, not sure what Bark is talking about here. Many of the SoCal dealers do such huge volume there is always a deal to be had on a new lease or the glut of low-mileage lease returns/demos/”loaners”.

  • avatar
    loner

    Am I wrong that we should view this as buying a new, but in some ways used, car? In that the car has already taken a depreciation hit from being a year or more old? Seems to me like it would make sense to check KBB and other sources for the price on a low mileage, 1 year old used example as a factor in negotiations. Resale value comes largely from age and total miles, not from date of purchase, right?

    Somebody educate me on why we aren’t talking more about that perspective.

    • 0 avatar
      highdesertcat

      If you finance the purchase, discuss this option with your lender. SOME lenders will only finance low-book value on a car already a model-year old. You make up the difference since very few vehicles APPRECIATE in value over time.

      If you pay cash for the purchase, it is a question of how much do you want this “discounted” deal, and how long will you be keeping the vehicle in order to get your money’s worth out of it.

      Dealers NEVER take a loss on left over vehicles. Worst case, they wholesale them off, for cost.

      • 0 avatar
        jack4x

        HDC,

        Unless there was 40% dealer profit built into the sticker price of a 2013 Viper, the dealer most certainly took a loss on mine. They didn’t want to take a chance at auction and my offer was the only legitimate one they had.

        Loner,

        The difference is the warranty. My 2013 entered service in August 2015, and powertrain warranty started from that date, not the build date. So in that way it’s more valuable than a 1 or 2 year used model. But over time, the value does approach that of a “normal” used car of the same year, no matter when you bought it. So it does make sense to insist on a healthy discount at the time of purchase.

        • 0 avatar
          loner

          I’ll buy that.

          So I suppose a 1 year old CPO would be a fairer comparison, although I imagine there are times a leftover may be had cheaper than a CPO.

        • 0 avatar
          87 Morgan

          The last run of Vipers were complete lot poison for whatever reason. I am not sure if the MSRP was too high for what the car was/is, but they were a tough sell for sure and in the end most dealers just wanted the 100k lump off their floor plan.

          And yes the dealer most likely took a loss on your Viper by the time you account for floor plan curtailments they needed to be paid on the car.

          • 0 avatar
            jack4x

            Yes, the regular dealer ordered cars were lot poison around 2014-15. Despite the huge improvements all around vs the Gen 4, there was a lot of sticker shock when the 5 came out. Dodge thought they could command C6 ZR1 pricing without the built in pool of Corvette loyalists. $140k puts you among a lot tougher competition than $90k, and those buyers are less willing to put up with manual only, cramped cabin, weird exhaust note, etc. Lots of upset early buyers also who paid sticker for loaded GTS models in 2013 only to see the same cars fire sold for $85-90 in 2015.

            The situation improved when the TA and especially the ACR and 1:1 programs came about. The performance credibility was undeniable by that point, the C7 Z06 was a dud, and the writing was on the wall for analogue supercars. By 2017, every Viper was sold at MSRP or above.

            Interesting life cycle for sure.

    • 0 avatar
      jh26036

      The big deal about buying a leftover is because you’re still the first titled owner, warranty fully in tact, and heavy depreciation is already in effect. For states like Massachusetts, by buying a car that is a full model year (or 2) older, our excise tax is considerably lower as well.

  • avatar
    ToolGuy

    Back when Pontiac sold new vehicles, I knew of a dealer who would hold onto inventory for too long, after most other dealers had sold out of that model year. Then a carefully timed call to headquarters, ‘hey can you give us some help on these cats and dogs out here’ and BOOM they approve additional closeout allowance on that model year. Easy money. (Customer never knows the difference.)

  • avatar
    rpn453

    Nordic Green, eh? Nice color. I’ve shopped for RX-8s a few times and never seen one.

  • avatar
    BoogerROTN

    Last May I paid $33K for a 2017 Ram Ecodiesel Crew Cab Bighorn that had an MSRP of $52K, and that didn’t involve any dickering or travel. Simply had to wait for the EPA stop-sale to end, whereupon FCA piled on the customer rebates (and no “Farm Bureau” or “Active Duty Military” crap either) and the dealers “discounted” the 1500’s by $10K. At 5K miles, I swapped out the ecm for a tuned ecm ($1000) that turned off the EGR and DEF system; getting ~27mpg in mixed driving and no headaches/worries about the AEM update that the EPA required FCA to do. If and when I have to take it into the dealer for service, a five minute swap of ECMs and I’m good to go.

    O/T: I have yet to see a TourX in the wild. But then again, I live in the PNW, where Outback ownership is considered mandatory.

    • 0 avatar
      jack4x

      “If and when I have to take it into the dealer for service, a five minute swap of ECMs and I’m good to go.”

      I wouldn’t be so sure about this. OEMs are quite a bit more sophisticated than they used to be even a few years ago about catching this type of trick. Especially on vehicles like diesel trucks that have a reputation for being tuned. Speaking just for FCA, I know of several Viper owners who had to stroke a $26K check for a new engine after the odometer readings didn’t match between the recently re-swapped stock computer and the dash.

  • avatar
    TheDutchGun

    In mid-late 2013 I found a brand new 2012 regal GS with a manual transmission for about $13k off sticker just north of Toronto. I 100% regret not jumping on it.

    • 0 avatar
      saturnotaku

      My two biggest regrets were 1) not buying a 2016 Impala V6 in the perfect color with the perfect amount of equipment when GM was doing the 20% (or maybe it was 25%) below MSRP promotion. It drove amazingly and would have been stupid cheap. But 2) is my biggest, and that was not snagging a brand-new Saab 9-2X Aero (rebadged Subaru WRX wagon) during the first GM Employee Discount for Everyone promotion back in 2005. When the deal was running, you got the employee discount plus whatever other incentives were available at the time, which on the Saab-aru was an extra $6,000 cash. I could have driven away with one for under $20,000.

  • avatar
    saturnotaku

    Best deals I’ve seen were my parents purchases of a 2008 Chevy Malibu Hybrid in February 2009 and when they traded it in for a 2017 Hyundai Sonata in September of ’17. For the Chevy, this was the time when GM was upgrading the non-hybrid four-cylinder models to a 6-speed automatic from a 4-speed. Of course, such a thing was unacceptable to my boomer parental units, so I suggested they look at the hybrid. These models were not common anyway, but a dealer about 40 miles from their home had one that was blue with the beige-over-brown interior. It was rather hideous, which is probably why it was stuffed into the back corner of the lot. After negotiations, GM credit card rebate, and a $500 trade-in of my father’s dearly beloved, but very rusted, 1992 Olds Ciera station wagon, they paid $16,200 OTD on a car with an original MSRP of more than $25,000. They were also eligible for an additional $1,250 federal tax credit because they bought the hybrid, which was pretty sweet considering the gas/electric versions of those Malibus were the “mild” variety that used the battery pack as a glorified engine idle stop/start system. They put less than 70,000 miles on it over the subsequent 8 years, but had to have the battery replaced twice under recall. Otherwise, it was a pretty reliable car.

    They upgraded to the Sonata when Hyundai was offering some pretty stupid incentives on them. They traded the Malibu on a fully loaded non-turbo Limited. Sticker on that car was around $34,000, they paid $23,000 OTD after trade. The car wasn’t ugly or anything (silver with a similarly colored interior) but I think the dealer wanted rid because it was fully loaded but didn’t have the upgraded powertrain.

    • 0 avatar
      ShoogyBee

      Similarly one could get a brand new leftover 2017 Sonata Sport 2.0T for $19,500 just as the refreshed 2018 model was about to hit showrooms. I wasn’t in the market for a new car but I almost jumped on that deal. Luckily common sense prevailed as I unexpectedly decided to stop renting and ended up buying a condo later that year.

      • 0 avatar
        saturnotaku

        I seem to recall that the 2017 Sonata Sport 2.0T got a fairly significant content downgrade in order to hit a lower price point.

        • 0 avatar
          ShoogyBee

          Not sure, but at the time the 2.0T was available in both lesser “Sport” and more loaded “Limited” trim levels. Starting mid-way through the 2018 model year, the 2.0T was exclusive to the “Limited” variant.

          It’s nice when car manufacturers make the more/most powerful engine available in mid-level trim models, rather than keep it exclusive to the top-of-the-line version, as they are doing now with the 2019 Sonata Limited 2.0T.

  • avatar
    PeriSoft

    A couple of years ago I had my eyes on a left-over 2015 Kia Cadenza that was weighing down a lot in PA – MRSP $41k, on sale for $23k. For $23k it was a hell of a deal.

  • avatar
    genuineleather

    One huge exception to this is leases; once you’re too far away from the current model year, all lease support goes away and the leftovers become just as expensive (if not more so) than current-year models. Even with a fat discount, you usually can’t overcome the awful MF and low residual.

    • 0 avatar
      MiataReallyIsTheAnswer

      So you either buy the leftover, or lease a current model year. On a car I won’t even own, may as well take the newest one they wanna give a deal on…

      One killer deal I should have taken was a brand new Mazdaspeed Miata (turbo) back in 05/06, 05 being the last model year and the all-new NC coming out for 06, I could have had a leftover MSM for 17 Grand and change.

  • avatar
    MoDo

    In 2013 I bought a 2012 Charger SRT for $37,250. I drove it for 2 years and TRADED it in and got $36,000.

  • avatar
    bullnuke

    In addition to left-overs, I’ve been pretty successful in finding excellent prices for vehicles that were special-ordered but not delivered to the person originally ordering. An ’86 Astro base model with 4.3 V6/5MT, cruise but no tilt, nice mid level interior trim, and towing package for a 20% off MSRP; my ’99 F350 XL w/7.3 and 6MT was an extra from a fleet order – got the diesel option ($5k or so that year) for free, and a strangely optioned special ordered ’19 F350 XL, 6.2 gasser w/4.30 axles and a nutty bunch of options for around 15% off MSRP. It’s paid off for me to “walk the lots” looking for the unicorn.

    • 0 avatar
      jack4x

      Impressed you could find the 4.30 gears on a lot, I had to order mine to get them.

      • 0 avatar
        DenverMike

        Some dealers are out of control and order trucks as someone would likely spec them, like say the random contractor.

        I was cutting across the lot to the showroom and ran into a V8 STX 4X4 with about every possible option, priced well into XLT territory, but was 100% ideal for me.

        Yet it has “options” not available on the XLT, like rubber floor, vinyl knit seats, mono-chrome, color-key bumpers and grill surround.

        I think it was ordered as a demo for all the things you get on the STX, and it had been sitting on the lot all spring. 15% off was OK, plus a free bedliner.

      • 0 avatar
        bullnuke

        jack4x – there were 4 with 4×4 and a pickup box and the 4.30 within 1000 miles of me; two new and two pre-owned w/less than 3k miles. There were a bunch of cab/chassis 2WD in Oxford White with the 4.30 on Ford Commercial Vehicle dealer lots.

  • avatar
    ptschett

    It’s a good place to be if you can be there. I’ve been there twice.

    Late 1990’s: my parents & I were more or less agreed that I needed a car to take to college, & that me & my sister needed separate cars. I came to decide that I liked the post-1994 refresh ‘MN12’ Ford Thunderbird/Mercury Cougar. We looked at a 1994 Cougar V8 on the late-model used lot at my hometown’s Ford dealer, but decided to go with what became my 1996 Thunderbird V8 from the Ford dealer in a neighboring town, where it had been a demo car for the wife of one of the dealership owners for a few thousand miles. There can’t have been many ’96 Thunderbirds that had their 3/36 warranty’s time clock start later than mine’s did in August 1998. We paid ~$14,000 for a car that would have cost ~$20,000 if it had sold when it was supposed to.

    Almost exactly 9 years ago: I decide that I want a Dodge Challenger R/T with the 6-speed to replace that Thunderbird. I was prepared to order the car. My local dealer has a 2010 on the lot, that’s close enough to my specifications that I decide to live with the 20″ wheels and can wait a few weeks to have the Sirius satellite radio kit installed. Not as good of a deal as the Thunderbird, but it was meaningfully under-MSRP in a time when under-MSRP Challenger R/T sales were not terribly common.


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