By on March 11, 2019

2020 Porsche 911

Gearheads love to argue about stuff: Ford vs Chevy, Evo vs WRX, Senna vs Prost. There’s only one answer to that last one, by the way.

Inevitably, someone tells us we have an incredibly bad take on something, and we’re forced to defend our unpopular opinion. Click through and let us know yours in the comments. I’ll go first — and it involves the Porsche 911.

I think every 911 needs to have a rear wiper. There, I’ve said it. *runs for cover*

It’s an unpopular opinion, at least in the circles in which I run. This declaration is often met with scorn and derision, with other gearheads saying they ruin the lines of the car and spoil any semblance of aerodynamics. Adds weight, too, they say.

Never mind the last one, I say. If the whole works of it adds ten or fifteen pounds, I’ll simply hit up the gym and lose that amount of weight myself if it means that much. As for the aesthetics, I think the wiper adds to the European styling.

In fact, Petrolicious has a great write-up on the history of the thing. Allegedly, they first appeared thanks to a customer request, quickly gaining popularity when the first example showed up in public.

But that’s just my bleatings. What’s your unpopular automotive opinion? I’ve put my bad take out there for everyone to see; now it’s your turn.

[Image: Porsche AG]

Get the latest TTAC e-Newsletter!

Recommended

125 Comments on “QOTD: Any Bad Takes, Man?...”


  • avatar
    jatz

    I’ve always dug wide hips at, like, a brain stem level. Schwingggg!

  • avatar
    Tomifobia

    Most cars could benefit from having a rear wiper, coupes and sedans included. I don’t know why they’re exclusively offered on wagon body styles, at least in North America.

    • 0 avatar
      carsRneat

      Right on Matthew Guy!

      I have a 2017 911 Turbo S – ordered new. And I ordered it with the rear wiper on purpose.

      Some were surprised because many are delivered without the rear wiper.

      Doesn’t matter to me what others do – I think it is a necessary piece of safety gear. The rear window is rather horizontal/flat such that mist or water does not easily drain off. And I like to see what is behind me – and think others should also want to know what is behind them when they are driving.

      Maybe it is the engineer in me but deleting a helpful piece of equipment for aesthetic reasons only – that just seems to be almost anti-car.

      Has it been useful? Yes, in some unexpected ways. Like when backing up in a driving rain. Or seeing a car come up from behind on an on-ramp and realizing that they could not see that we were all quickly stopping because of a car ahead that had slid out. In that case I was able to move over quickly to avoid getting crunched.

      Anyway – just some thoughts. Couldn’t help but respond to the comment about the windshield wiper on a 911.

      • 0 avatar
        PrincipalDan

        Until today I never knew there was an available rear wiper. Now every time I see one without one I’m going to think “Why didn’t you get the freaking wiper?”

        • 0 avatar
          87 Morgan

          + 1 PD. I now having something to marinate over today that I was previously unaware of, with the added stress of coming up with some consternation regarding the subject one way or the other. Another wasted day at work. Thanks TTAC

        • 0 avatar
          FormerFF

          For many 911 owners, it’s a second car that rarely if ever gets driven in the rain.

          I have a coworker who has two vehicles, a Lincoln crossover that she drives in rainy/cold weather, and a late model Corvette convertible for the nice days. I think the Corvette has been rained on once in three years.

          • 0 avatar
            SunnyvaleCA

            According to the “build your own” part of the Porsche website, it’s a $370 standalone feature. That has to be about the cheapest option you can buy! For example, to have the rear logos painted to body color is $680. The wiper also comes with intermittent function and auto-on if you put the car in reverse with the front wipers on. Forget the $3700 seats and $8500 brakes… every Porsche should come with it.

        • 0 avatar
          arach

          I’d hate to have a rear wiper… lose the sleek look, get added drag and wear items, for what?

          I’m never driving a 911 in a rain anyway. If there is a .01% of rain, my exotics stay in the garage.

          The rear wiper is like that option for the rare breeds that DD or drive them a lot. More power to them, but I wouldn’t order it.

  • avatar
    eggsalad

    They should stop calling it a 911.

    First of all, purists don’t call it “911” at all. They call it “993” or “996” or whatever, to distinguish generations.

    Second, it bears almost nothing in common with a 1963 911, other than a flat-6 in the back and the general overall shape (but not size!) A 1963 Suburban has more in common with a 2019 than the Porsche does.

    • 0 avatar
      FormerFF

      The original 911 was a rear drive, six cylinder 2+2 sports GT. The current iteration is a rear drive, six cylinder 2+2 sports GT. I’m not seeing your objection.

      If you think the 911 has evolved too much to be a 911, what do you make of the Toyota Corolla, the Honda Civic, and the Honda Accord? All those cars are up a full size class, and the Corolla started off as rear drive.

    • 0 avatar
      ptschett

      That reminds me, one of my takes was going to be how platform codes create a shibboleth that can hinder understanding for people who aren’t as invested into a given manufacturer and its coding system.

  • avatar
    jack4x

    -I love high trim, expensive pickup trucks. Please, make more.

    -Buying used cars isn’t worth it.

    -I don’t understand the appeal of the hot hatch, the small pickup truck, or the diesel engine in anything other than an HD truck. Like objectively I hear and understand the arguments people make in favor of these things. But I don’t “get” it.

    • 0 avatar
      jack4x

      Thought of some more. As with my others, these are things I sense the majority of people here disagree with, not necessarily the buying public at large.

      -“Tacked-on” infotainment screens are fine.

      -Fast, powerful SUVs are good.

      -I would pay a sharp increase in gas taxes to eliminate all emissions testing and ethanol blending.

      -And the big one. Cars were not better in some mythical golden age. The best overall lineup of vehicles ever made is for sale right now.

  • avatar
    ajla

    -Honda is very overrated and its reliability never really was comparable to Toyota.

    -Diesel engines are a waste in NA unless you’re regularly towing over 15k.

    -V6s are good.

  • avatar
    PrincipalDan

    Torque is good. I don’t care how you make it (which is why I don’t mind the turbo-charging trend) and the flatter the torque curve the better. (I’m talking about daily drivers, I understand why on a sports/muscle car lack of torque in the upper rev ranges can be a problem.)

    Sportback/liftback/hatchback are superior to sedans in our current design climate. Sedans are dying, automakers should just man up and turn them all into hatches. It’s not like the Malibu/Altima/Accord etc would suddenly sell WORSE if the exact same design as current had a larger opening and lifting rear glass.

  • avatar
    FormerFF

    The answer is not always Miata. Realistically, it hardly ever is, the car is impractical. if you want fun to drive and practical at not too high of a price, get at GTI.

    V8 engines in passenger vehicles are overkill.

    I LIKE 4 cylinder engines.

  • avatar
    Vulpine

    Quite a few people say I have a ‘bad take’ on my view of pickup trucks. They don’t understand why I call today’s full-sized trucks Road Whales™ and want to see true compact trucks return. They believe (erroneously, in my opinion) that there’s no market for compacts while completely ignoring what led up to our current mid-sized market (which are also too large as far as I’m concerned.)

    ‘Nuff said.

    • 0 avatar
      jatz

      “‘Nuff said.”

      Ages ago.

    • 0 avatar
      redapple

      Vulpine:

      Agreed. I call the road whale – PIG Up trucks. They are 5/4 ths the size of sane trucks. They are steroid ed up because the buyers want the oversize so they can impose their will on the road and dominate.

      Proof they are stupid size? I m 6’3″. In new trucks
      -I cannot reach over the bed side walls and get something out of the bed.
      Tailgate lowered?- you need a friggin ladder to get in the bed.
      Ingress? Your but cant get up to the seat without stepping on my tippie toes or side boards.
      Once inside- you cant reach the Passenger door> not even close.

      In my 1972 C 10? NONE of the above is true.

      QED – PIG Up Trucks.

      PS-JohnT – you dont need to flame me again. OK? Truce?

    • 0 avatar
      sportyaccordy

      If there were demand for small trucks here they wouldn’t have disappeared.

  • avatar
    Goatshadow

    Center consoles and stacks need to go away. Having a giant center console with a little short throw shifter (or shifter-nub in the automatics) is helping kill sedans, because it makes them claustrophobic and unpleasant to sit in.

  • avatar
    thelaine

    I think the Ford Flex looks so cool that it is classic.

    I don’t think full-sized pickup trucks are “huge.”

    Carbon dioxide is not a pollutant.

    CAFE has always been a disaster.

    You should drive whatever you want and let others do the same without being a dk about it.

  • avatar

    I have lots of them.

    -Ride comfort is more important than sporty driving pretensions.

    -You do not need more than eight speeds in an automatic transmission.

    -Manual transmissions are not very important, and automatics are superior in almost every way.

    -Electric parking brakes are stupid.

    -Toyota did not try hard enough with the new Supra.

    -The 370Z needs to die, and be replaced by a 400Z with the RS motor from the Q50.

    -All convertibles should have a folding metal roof option.

    -All minivans should offer all-wheel drive.

    -The Lexus LS in its current iteration should die.

  • avatar
    Blackcloud_9

    Not everything from China is bad.

    Pontiac is dead and Buick is still here, get over it!

    I’ll add more “Now, get off my lawn!” thoughts as I think of them.

  • avatar
    TR4

    There’s nothing wrong with a correctly maintained breaker point ignition.

    • 0 avatar
      PrincipalDan

      Boo…

      That was the first thing I got rid of on my 1967 Mustang.

      “Maintained” is the operative word.

      Ain’t Nobody Got Time for That.

    • 0 avatar
      bullnuke

      @TR4 – I concur. All I needed for my VW Beetles was a book of matches, a flat-blade screwdriver, and a dollar bill. Loosen the points, draw the dollar bill between ’em a few times to clean ’em up, reset the point gap with the match book cover (most covers were exactly .016″), and tighten ’em back up. Done (for a few hundred miles anyway).

  • avatar
    nels0300

    Manual transmissions not being important isn’t a bad take or unpopular opinion.

    Maybe for a tiny group of enthusiasts, but manuals not being important is THE popular opinion.

    I’ll say automatics are no good. They shift fast, smooth, more efficiently, etc etc, but they’re not as fun, and as your car gets older, they are infinitely more likely to send your car to the junkyard compared to a manual.

    • 0 avatar
      ajla

      “Maybe for a tiny group of enthusiasts…”

      But that’s my internet peer group.

      • 0 avatar
        nels0300

        There’s a good amount of “enthusiasts” that don’t even think manuals are important.

        I’m in an online Elantra Sport group, and everyone has the DCT.

        Same with VW. Lots of GTI and Jetta GLI folks believe DSG is better.

        • 0 avatar
          PrincipalDan

          I could see the writing on the wall for manuals when C&D tested the 4th gen F-body Camaro/Firebird and the automatic model was quicker in the quarter mile than the manual version.

          I only miss manuals because being here in the mountain west, many automatics have a tendency to hunt too much when if you had a manual you would shove it into the correct gear and keep it there until the crest of the hill.

          • 0 avatar
            rpn453

            That seems hard to believe. I can’t confirm though because C&D removed all the data and specs from their articles. That site gets worse every time I visit.

            I suppose it’s possible. The gearing on the manual was excessively tall. My buddy replaced his ’98 WS6 with a ’02 SLP Firehawk when he heard it was the last year of production, and it felt kind of slow to me through 1st gear compared to the WS6 which he had put 4.10s into. There’s no way the automatic beats a power-shifted manual with 4.10s!

          • 0 avatar
            raph

            @ rpn453 – usually on older autotragic equipped cars they were easier to launch plus not everybody can speed shift that well (pedal matted as you work the clutch and shift).

            Rare is the person that can really extract the most from a manual equipped car – even so called professional drivers who might be great on a road course but so-so in a drag race in that regard.

          • 0 avatar
            rpn453

            I don’t disagree, and C&D only does soft shifts and doesn’t exceed the published redline, even if it’s advantageous to go right to the rev limiter.

            But they have plenty of runs to get everything right and put up good numbers with the manual anyway. I can’t recall ever seeing a 4-speed slushbox getting close to what the manual could do at its best. Doesn’t mean it didn’t happen when I wasn’t paying attention.

            Drag racing a pair of manuals is so much more fun than just seeing whose automatic is faster.

  • avatar
    Vipul Singh

    The comments here remind me of this funny (as in ‘ha-ha funny’) thread:

    https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=210&t=1719648

    Some car related posts in there, too (if you search, hard)!

  • avatar
    ptschett

    CUVs are just a return to the form factor that cars had before the Earl/Mitchell and Exner excesses of the late 1950’s.

    Manual vs. automatic, in cars, is a minor quibble about driver workload. For maximum driver involvement per $$ what you want is a motorcycle.

    High % ethanol blends in the E20-E30 range should be explored for enabling further turbocharging/downsizing to support future fuel economy targets. (E0 fuel should still be available for motorcycles, small engines, etc. not designed to run on high ethanol blends.)

    Ethanol should be used as an octane booster to fuels of already acceptable octane, not to bring 84-octane swill up to 87.

    The knob shifter in late-model Mopars is good.

  • avatar
    Terry

    avatar
    Corey Lewis
    March 11th, 2019 at 10:04 am

    -Electric parking brakes are stupid.

    Corey, I agree with the rest of your list…but electric parking brakes?
    What are your feeling about electric starter motors, power window and electric side rear-view mirrors?
    At the dealership we NEVER saw problems with electric parking brakes-the same coudnt be said for the cables and rear brake calipers of the older systems. Many of our older customers never used the hand-brake because they didnt have the strength.Or then another driver would use the car, pull the long-dormant handbrake on…and have the car immobilized with locked-up rear brakes. Corrosion of the cables and caliper levers was an ongoing problem with my old Nissan Maxima.
    NO THANKS–I’ll gladly take the electric parking brake.

    • 0 avatar

      I don’t like the sound electric parking brakes make, and they seem too complicated. Adding an additional electronic link to something which can be manual.

      • 0 avatar
        PrincipalDan

        There is something satisfying on a good old fashioned hand brake.

        No love lost for me on the disappearance of the pedal emergency brake.

      • 0 avatar
        nels0300

        That sounds like an automatic transmission.

      • 0 avatar
        FormerFF

        I like that the electric parking brakes release if you put the car in gear and step on the accelerator. New drivers (of which I have two) sometimes forget to release the parking brake.

        I can tell you 100 percent of the female drivers I know prefer electric parking brakes. (also are big fans of Apple Car Play)

        • 0 avatar
          SunnyvaleCA

          My favorite parking brake setup was the classic Mercedes: use a foot pedal to set the brake, but a hand pull to release. That way you have the easy strength to set the break; the hand pull was always easy even with a hard-wet brake (different release mechanism than a standard all-hand parking brake). But when starting up on a hill, you only had one shot: Once you release the parking brake you better have the clutch enough engaged because you’re not going to have a shot a re-setting the brake.

          Parking was a nice procedure too: left and right feet on clutch and brake. When engine stops, left foot comes off the clutch and then right down on the parking brake in one nice motion. Easy!

          Ah… the days of the “4 pedal car.” Actually, if you count the foot pump for the windshield washer fluid, that’d be a “5 pedal car.”

      • 0 avatar
        bullnuke

        Corey – This. Also, how can an electric motor with its associated wiring, CANBUS programming, and switchgear possibly be cheaper than a lever and cable that connects to the same mechanicals at the rear wheels? Mine is no longer an emergency brake either – it can’t be used if the car is rolling more than 1/2 mph.

  • avatar
    nels0300

    Putting my flame suit on….

    Mazda IS NOT the mainstream “enthusiast” brand anymore.

    Both Honda and Hyundai/Kia!?!?! are more enthusiast than Mazda.

    Honda still offers manuals for *real* enthusiasts.

    Accord 2.0T 6 speed manual. Awesome.

    Civic/Elantra Sport>Mazda3.

    Kia Stinger.

    Genesis G70, and oh, you can get a manual.

    Hyundai has Albert Biermann tuning suspensions while Mazda is ripping out their good IRS suspensions and replacing with torsion beams.

    The Miata is so impractical that it doesn’t count.

    • 0 avatar
      Maymar

      I think the bad take is Hyundai/Kia as an enthusiast brand. Even the stuff they make that’s performance focused is still just “good enough,” and it’s pretty irrelevant to their core mission. It might be overhyped, but part of the Mazda accolades were that even a base 3 felt nicer to drive. There’s nothing wrong with a normal Elantra (as a mass market product), but there’s nothing special about it.

      • 0 avatar
        nels0300

        The G70 and Veloster N aren’t “just good enough”

        The Elantra Sport drives better than the Mazda3. Fight me.

        • 0 avatar
          Maymar

          I dunno, C&D’s really underwhelmed reaction to the 6-speed G70 (the one you’d think Hyundai would want to get right if they’re going to bother offering it) at least calls it into question. It’s not unusual for a car to get absolutely glowing reviews at first and taper off, so until I drive one for myself, I’m waiting a year or two (or, hell, through another product cycle) to assume we’ve been blessed with the second coming of 80’s BMWs.

          As for the Veloster N (or Elantra *Sport* vs Mazda3), I come back to – do you get a similar level of goodness on normal Hyundais, or do you get a really decent car for normal people but minimal involvement?

          Because if you’re going to pick a brand as the enthusiast’s choice based on a few specialty models, you’re overlooking Ford (Fiesta/Focus ST, Fusion Sport, Mustang lineup), or GM (Camaro/ATS/CTS/Corvette), or VW (although I’d pit plain Golfs and Jettas against your typical Elantra without question).

          I’m sure I’m at least a little salty since we don’t seem to get the Sport in Canada for ’19, although given how cheap you got yours, I’m not sure if it’ll last much longer in the US either.

  • avatar
    87 Morgan

    I don’t think my opinions are all that unpopular…

    The “Smart for two”: is not smart at all actually.

    Smoke stacks on your Bro-Dozer are stupid.
    Along those lines: Driving a diesel 3/4 ton to your office job is also incredibly stupid. The maintenance costs long term are far too high to ever justify owning one.
    **To each their own, you want to drive a big ol’ bro-dozer go ahead, but save yourself the headache and expense and get the gas engine.**

    Truck Nuts should be outlawed. Too tacky and repugnant.

    • 0 avatar
      PrincipalDan

      I was behind a fairly new Cumins RAM 3500 with dual rear wheels and a single dinner plate diameter exhaust stack sticking through the bed. I passed him on the 4 lane because he was going slower than I. As I passed him I realized that it was a business vehicle for a local contractor. The red paint at the roof of the cab was discolored by soot.

      Is this really the image you want to project for your business? Really?

  • avatar
    slavuta

    Mazda6 is the best mid-size sedan

    All cars should have manual transmissions

    Hondas POS

  • avatar
    Roberto Esponja

    Paddle shifters without a defeat feature suck.

  • avatar
    JohnTaurus

    Fullsize trucks are not that big, and certainly arent *that* much bigger than they used to be.

    Midsize trucks are not the same size as older fullsize trucks.

    There’s nothing wrong with buying a pickup truck for a daily driver, even if you dont use it to haul or tow regularly. Anyone who thinks otherwise should examine their own purchases and see if they bought what they actually wanted instead of only what they needed.

    Toyotas, especially the Tacoma, are vastly overrated.

    Light trucks (utilities and pickups) are just as important to non-American automakers, and American cars are not the only ones not selling.

  • avatar
    hpycamper

    Bring back manual steering. And manual transmissions. Both make for a better driving experience.

    • 0 avatar
      SunnyvaleCA

      +1 …. oops: +2

      Unfortunately, given the weight and wide tires of typical cars today, I don’t think manual steering would be popular. For me… I’m always looking for an upper-body workout.

  • avatar
    Dan

    Stick shifts. It’s not 1978 anymore. All but the lowest chitboxes are excessively powered, automatics are pretty good, and most importantly traffic has gotten awful. A third pedal is about as desirable as a crank starter.

    Mileage. It’s not 2008 anymore either. We have so much gas we’re exporting it. One average new car payment is something like FIVE THOUSAND MILES of gas. So why does anyone still talk about it, or let the manufacturer’s PR shills do the same? Economy compromises make cars worse in every other aspect. Don’t let them get away with it.

    Korean cars. They’ve improved from awful to average and we’re supposed to pretend that they’re Hondas now? They’re as expensive as Hondas. They sure aren’t at trade in time.

    • 0 avatar
      nels0300

      Well, Hondas are average now too.

      And my experience is that they don’t cost as much as Hondas.

      My Elantra Sport was $4-6K less than a Civic Sport / Si.

      Now, I’m sure you’ll recoup some or all of that $4-6K at trade in…..but I got the money upfront.

    • 0 avatar
      slavuta

      Korean cars are still awful in base trims. I was testing base Santa Fe, it had contractor grade interior. And MSRP for it was 28K. I nearly had anxiety, I wanted to leave that car as soon as possible.

      But Genesis – yea. This is what I call a luxury car

    • 0 avatar
      arach

      Funny. re: Korean.

      I am a firm believer that Korean cars > Honda in terms of reliability. I don’t know why people pay so much money for hondas when Korean cars are so much better and so much cheaper. I assume its because they are dumb and don’t know any better, or are honda fanbois (I’m not trying to be mean, but thats what I think)

      • 0 avatar
        jatz

        Have you priced Korean vs Japanese in any segment lately? Mighty close.

        But I don’t care because 11 years of Kia ownership has made me see them as completely reliable as well as proactive with customer service both at the dealer and corporate levels.

        Plus, they’re the most restrained Asian car maker re styling.

      • 0 avatar
        TheKonnstranomic

        Maybe it’s because of people having nightmares about the Korean cars of old, as in the Hyundai Excel, and Daewoos? Then again, considering how people still give American brands a bad rap for their bad cars in the past like the Pinto and Vega, maybe that is a thing with Korean brands too.

    • 0 avatar
      DenverMike

      Automatics. The only way I can deal with a (just shoot me) boring car would be a stick shift. Non negotiable. Who cares what’s “better”? Especially in this class.

      If you hate the thought of “heavy traffic” with a stick shift, you’re clearly not a fan of stick shifts, bad knees, etc, and that’s totally fine, you don’t have to make excuses.

      Yeah I’ll pay more for a manual.

  • avatar
    FormerFF

    Non-auto rant: Restaurants that brew their own beer, if you are going to insist on putting so much hops in your brews that they taste like turpentine, could you at least have some sort of lager on draft so that those of us who aren’t hopheads can have a glass of beer with dinner?

    Not everyone loves hops, some of us prefer malty beers.

    • 0 avatar
      PrincipalDan

      (applause)

      If all you got is IPA or a beer with a name like “Arrogant Bastard” then give me a glass of red wine.

      My Brother-in-law keeps kegs in his home bar but it’s usually two microbrews and one that will be something like Shiner Bock. Thanks Amigo, I’ll drink the Shiner, you keep your $$$ beer.

    • 0 avatar
      R Henry

      Thank you. I tend to order hefeweizen to avoid the toxicity of so many ales. Bleh!

    • 0 avatar
      King of Eldorado

      “So, King, what’s your favorite vegetable?”
      “Hops.”

      Once I discovered IPA and Pale Ale a few years ago I regretted the many years I had spent drinking Bud Light and similar. I readily acknowledge that tastes vary, but I’m firmly in the hoppy camp.

      • 0 avatar
        ToddAtlasF1

        I’d been drinking pale ales for decades, but was only introduced to great IPAs in 2012. It isn’t like I didn’t enjoy beer until then, but it definitely ranks up there with fracking in terms of material improvements to life in the US over the past decade.

        My beef is with cilantro. I loved Mexican food for most of my life, but I’ve seen all of my favorite Mexican restaurants infected with the cilantro virus since 2003. Use the coriander, compost the leaves. How tough was that?

  • avatar
    SilverCoupe

    Silver is a perfectly good color choice for a car (though I do prefer a darker silver over a lighter one.)

    PS – I have owned a blue car and a green car also – different cars look best in different colors.

  • avatar
    USAFMech

    The gasoline engine is in its death throes. It’s electrics from here on out (even if it’ll take 40 years in the MidWest).

  • avatar
    James2

    re Senna v. Prost, the answer is McLaren/Honda.

  • avatar
    arach

    I will defend every one of these, so bring it on!

    >Torque Converters are the worst thing to ever happen to cars.

    >We need more bright yellow, green, and orange cars on our roadways.

    >Automated Manuals and Dual Clutches are the evolution of the MANUAL transmission and should be embraced.

    >Big Giant Pickup Trucks are cool.

    >Hyundais are the new Honda in terms of reliable bank for the buck.

    >Modifications on vehicles are cool and should be embraced even if it isn’t your “style”.

    >There’s no place on our roadways for compact trucks.

    >The Fiero was a grossly underappreciated car.

    >Sports cars can have Turbo 4s and Electric Motors and still be cool.

    >Brown Manual Wagons are not enthusiast cars.

  • avatar
    ToolGuy

    – Current ‘automatic’ climate control systems do a woeful job of maintaining driver/passenger comfort/visibility in the ‘shoulder’ seasons (Spring/Fall) because they only know the *temperature* and I would rather have manual controls UNLESS you add a *humidity* sensor (very affordable these days) and upgraded logic.

    – Any vehicle smart enough to turn the headlamps on when it’s dark out, should turn the headlamps on when the wipers are on.

  • avatar
    ToolGuy

    Any vehicle smart enough to turn the headlamps on when it’s dark out, should turn the headlamps on when the wipers are on.

  • avatar
    tankinbeans

    -the ability to drive a manual doesn’t automatically bestow upon you mad driving skill (though preferring them is an entirely different question)

    -headlights should never have an off option

    -170-200 hp in a pedestrian family sedan is fine. The horsepower wars are stupid, especially when most people driving take 7000 city blocks to reach 45 mph.

  • avatar
    Terry

    avatar
    nels0300
    March 11th, 2019 at 11:05 am

    Mazda IS NOT the mainstream “enthusiast” brand anymore.

    Both Honda and Hyundai/Kia!?!?! are more enthusiast than Mazda.

    Civic/Elantra Sport>Mazda3.

    Hyundai has Albert Biermann tuning suspensions while Mazda is ripping out their good IRS suspensions and replacing with torsion beams.

    The Miata is so impractical that it doesn’t count.

    Mazda is attempting to upstream, not trying to compete with the typical other Japanese cars. Their target is Audi and the like, not Hyundai/Kia.

    While the torsion-beam suspension is less expensive than the multi-link suspension, realize that there are 14 less bushings to deal with, and alignment is more constant during cornering.

    The Miata is impractical? What deep sleep did you just wake out of? Name a practical sports car. Yes, I REALLY enjoy my’99 NBMiata, as I do my ’19 CX-5 Signature Turbo.
    You seem to be a joyless person, just my impression.

    • 0 avatar
      nels0300

      I know what a torsion beams rear suspension is, thanks.

      Mazda trying to be like Audi. And they do this by ditching IRS?

      Good luck with that.

    • 0 avatar
      FormerFF

      I had a first generation RX-7 I once loaded a half keg in it.

      You could go grocery shopping with two people and carry home a week’s worth of groceries for the both of you. You could put enough luggage in it for two people to travel for a week.

      Same was true for the 240/260/280Z.

  • avatar
    DenverMike

    @JohnTaurus – Well said! I’ll add buying a Tacoma strictly for its “resale” is stupid, especially if you hate its seating position, lack of power, and poor fuel economy.

    The numbers don’t jive anyway. You’ll spend way more upfront than you’ll ever get back when you sell/trade. Then if you’re stuck with it forever, you REALLY shot yourself in the foot.

  • avatar
    ToolGuy

    The base of the oil filter mount should be roughly tangential to the surface of the earth.

    Further, when a polyurethane sphere with diameter of ~96.5mm is dropped from the center of the oil filter mount, it should fall to earth without contacting any frame members or other obstructions.

    My cardiologist thanks you for your kind attention to this message.

  • avatar
    loner

    As a Porsche owner I like spirited driving, but I hate driving the car hard. I left the HPDE early, saying this is just not fun at all.

    Bumper stickers are like tattoos. They’re for people who feel like they have a need to project some sort of message to others. Meanwhile, the others just think those people with tattoos and bumper stickers are morons.

    Wait, don’t they say exactly the same thing about Porsche owners?! :-)

    All Harley Davidsons should be dumped into a pit and burned.

    No one should be allowed on a car TV show if they wear all black, baggy shorts, and a flat-brimmed ball cap. That look is all used up by now.

  • avatar
    thats one fast cat

    Well, if you insist:
    – the last real Porsche was built in 1998, it was air cooled the way God and Ferry intended
    – the current 911 is the best Jaguar Porsche ever built
    – mastering a stick shift makes you a better driver. Not as fast as an automatic or better in traffic, but those who have only learned to “drive” an automatic have only learned to point and move
    -high beams should be activated by a button in the floorboard
    -rain sensing wipers are one of the five stupidest inventions ever
    And
    – engines without dipsticks are a sign of the coming carpocolypse

    • 0 avatar
      ToolGuy

      cat,

      “I can’t get the Bluetooth oil level sensor to pair with my new phone!”

      LOLOLOLOL.

    • 0 avatar
      ptschett

      Mastering a motorcycle makes one arguably a better road-vehicle operator than anyone stuck in a 4-wheeled cage fitted with either a manual or an automatic transmission.

    • 0 avatar
      arach

      Rain sensing wipers are a god send. I can’t believe the US doesn’t mandate it like Australia does. I bought a car that didn’t have it on accident because I thought they were mandatory here too (my last 3 cars had them), and then it cost me over $500 to have it added… urgh.

      There’s nothing more stupid than having to turn the wipers on- off- on- off- on- off every 15 seconds in fog and stuff.

      Porsche makes the worst rain sensing wipers I’ve ever experienced though… the ones in our Porsche were almost useless. Every other brand has been excellent though.

  • avatar
    thats one fast cat

    Well, if you insist:
    – the last real Porsche was built in 1998, it was air cooled the way God and Ferry intended
    – the current 911 is the best Jaguar Porsche ever built
    – mastering a stick shift makes you a better driver. Not as fast as an automatic or better in traffic, but those who have only learned to “drive” an automatic have only learned to point and move
    -high beams should be activated by a button in the floorboard
    -rain sensing wipers are one of the five stupidest inventions ever
    And
    – engines without dipsticks are a sign of the coming carpocolypse

  • avatar
    Terry

    avatar
    nels0300
    March 11th, 2019 at 6:09 pm

    avatar
    nels0300
    March 11th, 2019 at 6:09 pm

    I know what a torsion beams rear suspension is, thanks.

    Mazda trying to be like Audi. And they do this by ditching IRS?

    Good luck with that.

    Mazda isnt trying “to be like Audi”, they are trying to compete in that market. In figured you knew the difference between a beam axle and IRS. But nobody bitched when VW years ago had a beam axle. Just curious…have you driven a new Mazda3 with the beam rear axle? I seriously doubt that the majority of buyers will go “Yeah, LOVE the 3…but what? It has a beam axle? NO WAY!!!” LOL

    • 0 avatar
      nels0300

      You said they’re not worried about Hyundai/Kia because they’re moving upmarket and targeting Audi. And at the same time, swapping the rear suspension for a down market design.

      You know who is closer to competing with Audi than Mazda?

      Hyundai by way of Genesis.

      If you’re an Audi guy/gal, would you rather have a loaded Mazda6, or a G70? Because their prices overlap.

  • avatar
    Terry

    If the “downmarket design” works well, what is the possible difference? Ive talked to Hyundai and Kia employees who now work at my former employer, and they all said the same thing: Great cars, tons of warranty issues, and pretty much POOR resale value.
    Yes, Mazda’s have always had superior driving dynamics, but the company is no longer interested in being the inexpensive boy-racer-wannabe car provider.
    Do yourself a favor, visit a Mazda dealership and road-test the Mazda6 Signature, the CX-5 Signature…and the MX-5 Miata. Let me know what you think of them based on your road test. I won’t hold my breath waiting for your road-test results.

    • 0 avatar
      nels0300

      I just had a loaded CX5 rental. Not the turbo.

      It was really nice, could’ve used a turbo, but otherwise very upscale. Wasn’t a fan of the transmission, but I dont like any automatics except a brand new DSG.

      But it’s still a Mazda.

      As far as “what’s the difference” between an IRS and a torsion beam rear suspension?

      One is just a beam that connects the two rear wheels together. They’re not independent of each other.

      If it “works well” then why do NONE of the upmarket brands use it?

      The fact that they’re prevalent only among sub $20K cars tells you all you need to know.

      Mazda doesn’t have great resale either.

      And your former Hyundai/Kia co-workers? Some guy on the internet’s co-workers used to work at Hyundai-Kia and they say warranty issues and bad resale? Pfft, that’s common internet “knowledge”, lol.

    • 0 avatar
      ajla

      “road-test the Mazda6 Signature”

      I’ve driven that one. Nice enough car, but still solidly in the Camcord class. Not up to the level of Acura/Buick/Infiniti, let alone Audi or Mercedes.

      Personally, I’d rather have a Camry XSE against it.

  • avatar
    Terry

    It wasnt internet knowledge–it= was face-to-face conversation with people in the sales and finance departments with actual personal experience.
    My point was not the obvious difference between the 2 suspensions, but rather if it doesnt adversely affect the handling, and if less expensive more money can be put into the car like interior features, what’s the problem–or do you just want to have bragging rights?

  • avatar
    TheKonnstranomic

    -Today’s minivan’s have become way too bloated. Compared to the original Chrysler vans, which make today’s vans look like they had way too much to eat for too long. Not to mention all the emphasis today’s minvans have on plush comfort and passenger entertainment, which is just more $$$ to be spent at the dealer, and more potential things that can break later on. We need more reasonably sized and utilitarian vans again! More things like the Ford Transit Connect, the passenger version of the Ram ProMaster City (Fiat Doblò), the sadly departed Mazda5, heck, even make a modified version of the Mahindra Marazzo for American tastes!

    -I don’t mind the trend of tablet infotainment screens, but it would be helpful if they had another way to navigate them, i.e. a control knob. And no, the touchpads that Lexus uses do not count.

    -I never thought of the infamous 1st generation Ssangyong Rodius to be ugly at all. The lack of sliding doors on it is a bummer though.

    -While some people don’t feel sad for crappy car brands that die out, i.e. Daewoo, I do feel saddened when they go away, because of less car variety. It makes you wonder how Daewoo’s cars would have turned out, had they not gone bankrupt, and had GM not purchased them. And not to mention how GM’s cars would be like today without Daewoo’s influence…

    • 0 avatar
      ToolGuy

      Konn,

      Completely agree on the minivan thing- was just having that conversation while driving tonight. The Stylists got involved and are killing the segment over time.

      On your infotainment comment, I would like a real live jog/shuttle wheel when listening to podcasts/etc.

  • avatar
    Hummer

    Turbo 4s are universally awful, either add displacement to a N/A 4 or put a V8 in it like God intended.

    V6s have one place in the auto world, that is Minivans, doesn’t matter if they’re the sliding rear door variety Minivans or the Traditional rear door style minivans like the Highlander or Cherokee.

    CUVs are less cool minivans, they’re like the dorky brother to minivans.

    • 0 avatar
      arach

      Funny. After I bought a turbo4, I fell in love. My Hyundai Sonata 2.0t is my FAVORITE engine I’ve ever owned, I like it more than turbo v8 diesels, Turbo 6s, NA 6s, and NA 8s.

      having INSTANT PEAK TORQUE at 1300 rpm is amazing. My Hyundai sonata feels faster in DD traffic than my Camaro SS did. On top of it feeling super torquey, I get 32 MPG! are angels singing? Did a magician design this thing?

      My V6s have to be revved up and are lucky toget 22 MPG.

      I decided the best mustangs and camaros are now the turbo4… unless you are racing where you are running your car at 6400 rpm, turbo4s are amazing for daily driving duties.

      In fact I’m mad that I can’t buy bigger nicer cars with the turbo4… I don’t think I could settle for an awful NA 6 again after owning this car for 4 years.

Read all comments

Back to TopLeave a Reply

You must be logged in to post a comment.

Recent Comments

  • Lou_BC: @Dan The USA has 4% of the world’s population but 20% of the world’s deaths from COVID-19. Next...
  • Lou_BC: @Vulpine – I tried to make a similar point earlier. The larger vehicle tends to sit higher therefore...
  • dukeisduke: Mary Barra’s wishful thinking.
  • Sobro: That Buick nailhead motor was an interesting take on design. Buick decided that instead of horsepower wars...
  • Corey Lewis: I see the name Allard, and I know it’s a car brand but that is the extent of my knowledge.

New Car Research

Get a Free Dealer Quote

Who We Are

  • Matthew Guy
  • Timothy Cain
  • Adam Tonge
  • Bozi Tatarevic
  • Chris Tonn
  • Corey Lewis
  • Mark Baruth
  • Ronnie Schreiber