By on February 20, 2019

Until Tuesday, organizers of the 2019 Detroit Autorama were planning on opening the show on March 1st with a car jump by a replica Smokey and the Bandit Trans Am Firebird. A couple of years ago, the Autorama featured a jump of a Dukes of Hazzard “General Lee” Charger replica, to considerable press coverage, including here at TTAC.

This year, the same group of car enthusiasts that put on the General Lee jump, Northeast Ohio Dukes, was going to be back on Atwater Street behind Cobo Hall, only with a black and gold Pontiac, not an orange Dodge. When it comes to famous fictional car jumps, the Bandit’s Mulberry Bridge leap is right up there with the General Lee’s vault in the Dukes’ opening credits, and the Autorama jump was going to be part of a more general tribute at the custom car show to the late Burt Reynolds, a Michigan native, who starred in SATB.

Detroit’s City Council, though, has put a kibosh on the jump, apparently over a nonexistent Confederate battle flag, voting 7-1 to reject the jump. In the 1977 film, the black and gold Trans Am wears a period-correct Georgia license plate on the front of the car. The plate’s Confederate war banner offends current woke sensibilities. The license plate does not appear on any photos or videos available of the Ohio group’s Bandit replica. A commemorative t-shirt they’re selling for the as-of-now cancelled jump does have a caricature of a scene from the movie featuring the Bandit with the Stars & Bars along with Sheriff Buford T. Justice’s four-door Pontiac Grand LeMans police cruiser. After news of the Council’s actions broke, Northeast Ohio Dukes insisted on their Facebook page that they had no intention of having the plate on the car at the Detroit appearance.

The fact that the stunt car wasn’t going to have the flag, and the fact that Autorama has been bringing tens of thousands of fans and their money to downtown Detroit for over 50 years might have persuaded normal people not to make a fuss, but Detroit City Council is populated by politicians, not normal people.

During the council’s Tuesday debate on a permit for the jump, Councilman Scott Benson said “Autorama, which has a history in the city of Detroit, also has a history of supporting imagery and symbols of racism, oppression and white supremacy as well as American, home-bred terrorism right here in the United States.”

That “history of supporting imagery….” was apparently a reference to the 2017 General Lee replica jump, and hopefully not an allegation that folks in pointy white hoods clog up the aisles at Cobo every year in early March. There are plenty of hoods at Autorama, but they’re all on cars, and more likely to be tangerine orange flake, baby, than white.

While it’s true that symbols of the Confederacy have become touchstones for controversy in recent years, I have to say that Councilman Benson’s hyberbolic rhetoric impugning Autorama organizers as racist white supremacists seems foolish to me, at least based on what I have seen at the event. Putting aside the fact that there were plenty of African-American folks watching the 2017 General Lee jump (I was there), flag or not, the closely related custom, hot rod, and drag racing communities (Autorama’s official sponsor is the Michigan Hot Rod Association) are the most ethnically diverse subcultures of the automotive world.

While the Detroit area’s Concours of America and Eyes On Design car shows are far from “lilly white,” as a more working class show there are simply a lot more black, Asian, and Latin folks, percentage-wise, attending Autorama than those other two shows. I go to many, many car shows and the Detroit Autorama has the most ethnic and racial diversity of any I’ve visited.  Not just attending, either. Black car owners and builders have been Ridler Award finalists in recent years. Similarly, show organizers have placed low riders from California-based Latino car clubs in prominent positions at the front of Cobo’s main hall. It’s a high honor in the customs world to have your work in the front of Cobo, where the Ridler finalists are displayed.  In conjunction with Low Rider magazine, this year’s show will also feature 17 cars in the Low Rider Magazine Invitational.

Contrary to photos and videos of the Northeast Ohio Duke’s Bandit replica, and the group’s assertions, Benson said after the vote that the Trans Am, “still proudly flies a Confederate flag, which is a symbol of oppression, slavery, as well as home-bred American terrorism. So this body said we are not going to support that type of symbolism nor the audacity to support that type of activity in the city of Detroit.”

Benson accused the Northeast Ohio Duke’s of misleading the city concerning the 2017 jump. “The Confederate flag which has been a symbol of all of those items was proudly displayed within the last two years during an Autorama car jump when they came and expressly said they would not display that symbol during the jump,” Benson said. “Come to find out they actually displayed that symbol, and that can be seen in YouTube video jumps they did on Atwater Street.”

At the time, Northeast Ohio Dukes told the city and show organizers that as the flag was on their General Lee’s roof, and since they were doing a jump, the flag would not be visible to the street level crowd. How credible or not that claim was, the city apparently accepted it at the time.

The Autorama’s media liaison said, following the vote, that organizers had no comment other than the fact that they were trying to resolve the issue with the city.

[Image: Northeast Ohio Dukes]

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86 Comments on “Detroit City Council Bans Autorama Bandit Jump Over Seemingly Nonexistent Confederate Flag...”


  • avatar
    Jerome10

    Glad to see Detroit still focusing on the real problems of their city.

    Did the autorama guys try slipping them a five? That council would probably take it and they could run the plate.

  • avatar
    wooootles

    I bet the council felt like they were Captain America after they made that ruling

  • avatar
    Detroit-Iron

    I’m sure we are all familiar with Hanlon’s Razor, however some people’s words and and actions, especially among politicians, are so stupid that they are indistinguishable from evil.

  • avatar
    PrincipalDan

    So find a place to do the jump just outside the city limits… ;-)

    Too bad they tore down the Silverdome.

  • avatar
    jatz

    I’m on the phony SJW’s side here, not the wet-lipped rednecks’.

    • 0 avatar
      PrincipalDan

      Ummmmmmmmmm out of concern for any TransAms that might be harmed?

    • 0 avatar
      Sceptic

      Why is it considered acceptable in America to use an obvious racial slur “R-neck” but at the same time not acceptable to use the obvious racial slur “N-ger”?

      • 0 avatar
        jatz

        And “redneck” is a class slur, too.

        Two, Two, Two Slurs in One! Somebody should be outraged.

        • 0 avatar
          -Nate

          “Two, Two, Two Slurs in One! Somebody should be outraged.”

          Call the yuppie dickwads who’ve ‘discovered’ the quiet little Ghetto I live in and have been making life miserable for everyone here ever since…..

          Some folks just need to have something to bitch about .

          My ex Wife used to call me “Pesqueso Rojo” ~ means Red Neck in Spanish….

          -Nate

      • 0 avatar
        SirRaoulDuke

        Probably because plenty of people are proud to be rednecks, and because whites have enough power the slur does no damage.

        • 0 avatar
          -Nate

          It’s also a thing that you _chose_ to be insulted or not….

          Several here are small minded trolls, liars, cowards and so on so what they say doesn’t really mean much of anything .

          I don’t really care what you call me as long as it’s not lake to eat .

          -Nate

  • avatar
    Lie2me

    There’s no such thing as a “a period-correct Georgia license plate on the front”, Georgia only has rear tags (plates) That front “plate” was a aftermarket redneck vanity plate. Detroit certainly over reacted, but a little more perspective is in order here

  • avatar
    MRF 95 T-Bird

    I don’t think you would see the SNL characters Hans and Franz driving a German car with a swastika on it.

  • avatar
    ToddAtlasF1

    Cultural Marxism lives in the city that was once America’s richest. Talk about not learning from history…

    • 0 avatar
      Luke42

      You clearly don’t know what Marxism is, other than as a label for something you don’t like. Marx was a communist, but you need to know much more than that in ordwr to throw the word “Marxism” around without looking the fool.

      In The Communist Manifesto, Marx saw all of human history in terms of class struggle — as a struggle between the rich and the poor. Marx was a communist philosopher. His opinions are not popular in America, where we all (liberal or conservative) believe ourselves to be members of the middle class.

      Here’s a summary of The Communist Manifesto:
      https://www.sparknotes.com/philosophy/communist/summary

      Us overeducated liberals don’t like Marx any more than you do — because very few of us are communists, no matter how much the right-wing media might speculate otherwise. The difference is that us overeducated liberal know what the term “Marxist” means because we read enough philosophy to get a passing grade in college — but your use of it here shows you don’t understand the term.

      Now, let’s apply what we just learned.

      QUESTION: Is deciding that it is obscene to display thr symbols of slavery in public (such as the flag of The Army of Northern Virginia, also known as the Confederate Battle Flat) Marxist?

      ANSWER:
      Treating the symbols of slavery as obscene is only Marxist if you see the world the same war Karl Marx did. If you see slavery as a class struggle betweeen the class of rich white landowners exploit the class of poor black slaves, then you can call it Marxist.

      On the other hand, if you see slavery as a failure to extend the rights and freedoms described in the Declaration of Independence of all people, then you’re someone who believes in America’s political philosophy, rather than Marx’s. I’m pretty liberal (and I have libertarian tendencies), and this is where I personally fall.

      Lastly, if the only thing you can think of when you see the symbols of slavery is how “wonderful” your ancestors were, you need . The people whose great great great grandparents who were f*cked over by your great great great grandparents deserve to have their say, because it’s their heritage too — and they’re still upset about it and don’t want to be continuously reminded of historic crimes committed against their family. You’d feel the same way, in their shoes.

      Okay, now that we’ve defined our terms and learned some basics, we can return to the term “cultural Marxism”. Given what Marxism actually is (defined above), the term “cultural Marxism” is largely nonsense — as are most things the right-wing media makes up. It’s generally used to “win” arguments against people who understand the terms by soliciting a “but it’s complicated” response during the kind of high-speed low-content making someone pause while they try to summarize a complex point looks a “victory”. But “winning” this way is not the same thing as being correct or insightful.

      • 0 avatar
        el scotto

        Mr. 42,
        it takes a lot less typing to just say “Masturbates to Fox news” and/or “Aged between retied and dead”. Those ovals overlap greatly in a Venn diagram. Irritatingly, those two groups want to express their opinions on here and attempt to be dismissive with anyone who disagrees with them.

        • 0 avatar
          GM JUNK

          As opposed to masturbates to CNN while still crying like babies 3 years later. Smart idea trying to erase the past, especially when you have nothing to offer the present. Durr hurr hurr.

          • 0 avatar
            el scotto

            1. Who watches CNN these days? 2. I said nothing about the past, present, or future. 3.”Durr hurr hurr”; reread my last line. 4. Spellcheck makes you look smarter. It’s there for a reason.

        • 0 avatar

          “attempt to be dismissive with anyone who disagrees with them.”

          As opposed to the social justice left, which goes well beyond simple dismissal into deplatforming and censorship of what they consider wrongthink.

          How many leftists have been suppressed on YouTube, Patreon, and Twitter?

          Between retired and dead? Heck, I’m a lot younger than Bernie Sanders, though I don’t know if the word “retired” should ever apply to Mr. Sanders as it appears that he has never had an actual job in his life.

      • 0 avatar
        ToddAtlasF1

        https://www.bing.com/search?q=cultural+marxism&form=IE10TR&src=IE10TR&pc=EUPP_MATBJS

        “Cultural Marxism

        Cultural Marxism: An offshoot of Marxism that gave birth to political correctness, multiculturalism and anti-racism.. Unlike traditional Marxism that focuses on economics, Cultural Marxism focuses on culture and maintains that all human behavior is a result of culture (not heredity / race) and thus malleable.”

        It is a perfect description of what is going on here. You’re living in denial in the purest sense. #walkaway

        • 0 avatar
          Luke42

          My description of “cultural Marxism” as being a made up term for tings the right-wing media doesn’t like is accurate, even by your own definition.

          The term “cultural Marxism” total nonsense if you know the dictionary definition of Marxism, because Marx saw everything through the lens of class struggles

          Moving on, what you guys call political correctness, for instance, is just plain old manners — with a couple of updates to keep you from looking the fool in a multicultural setting. It’s nothing more, nothing less.

          Of course, the Fox News crowd doesn’t understand this and makes simple manners into some sort of boogeyman. If you don’t think much of having manners, or don’t like being left tured about it, that’s fine — but the outrage is manufactured.

          I can’t #walkaway because I was raised conservative and left the Republican party. I grew up reading Thomas Sowell and the like, and am still pro-business (especially small business). But, conservatives are out of touch with reality in ways great and small, and I was kicked out of the Republican party during the run up to Iraq War II in 2003. Since 9/11, the Republicans have been The Fear & War Party, the Grand Obstructionist Party, and now they’re The Wall Party — and none of that has value to me. The #walkaway thing is completely ridiculous.

          • 0 avatar
            el scotto

            Luke, this will make you feel better: https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/intelligence-report/2003/cultural-marxism-catching and this https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jan/19/cultural-marxism-a-uniting-theory-for-rightwingers-who-love-to-play-the-victim Remember my phrase, dismissive to anyone who opposes them.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            “right-wing media”

            Breitbart is not real media but many reasonable people flock to it and other blogs because all conventional media is simply extreme left wing vs center-left wing and much of it is not accurate.

            “political correctness, for instance, is just plain old manners”

            Not even close. This is about the control of language which leads to the control of thought. The Bolsheviks pioneered this in the early 1920s.

            “the Republicans have been The Fear & War Party”

            Uhhhh wasn’t it a certain Keynan who blew up Ukraine, Syria, and Libya? Parties change but war remains a constant since WWII. Riddle me this, who is really in charge?

            “The #walkaway thing is completely ridiculous.”

            You really need to consider stop drinking everyone’s Kool-Aide because it is riddled with disinformation and lies.

            “We’ll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false”

            William Casey, CIA, 1981

            https://www.quora.com/Did-CIA-Director-William-Casey-really-say-Well-know-our-disinformation-program-is-complete-when-everything-the-American-public-believes-is-false

            Oh Yeah!

          • 0 avatar
            don1967

            Political correctness is fascism pretending to be manners.

            There, I fixed it.

            -George Carlin

        • 0 avatar
          el scotto

          “multiculturalism and anti-racism” So we’re supposed to be mono-cultural and racist? We need your approval about such things. Please.

      • 0 avatar
        WallMeerkat

        “Marx was a communist philosopher. His opinions are not popular in America, where we all (liberal or conservative) believe ourselves to be members of the middle class.”

        Where too many people believe themselves to be temporarily displaced millionaires.

        The rich told the poor that communism is the enemy. The poor had something to gain but the rich had everything to lose. Unfortunately the poor lapped it up, as they always do during conflicts (hot or cold).

    • 0 avatar
      el scotto

      Mr. 28carslater,
      darn this was hard to reply to. We did bomb Libya, you got that one right. Syria was self-imposed and the Russians invaded Ukraine. There would and we would still have sharp debate about going into Ukraine. We’re already in Syria and actually doing a good job. Ukraine is not in NATO but is really, really interested (again) in joining.

      • 0 avatar
        gtem

        ” Syria was self-imposed and the Russians invaded Ukraine.”

        Syria: CIA funneled arms from Libyan weapons caches to give teeth to the Syrian protests, our lovely senators McCain and Rubio were on the ground fanning the flames. We then proceeded to send many millions of dollars of weapons to “moderate” rebels which most of the time were infact allied with hard line Islamists, if not hard line Islamists themselves.

        http://www.lrb.co.uk/v36/n08/seymour-m-hersh/the-red-line-and-the-rat-line

        Ukraine: The US State Dept spent a self-admitted 5 billion dollars “promoting democracy” (ie sponsoring opposition parties and street protests, orchestrating coups, read up on “Color” Revolutions), this was from the mouth of Victoria Nuland herself. Leaked audio between Nuland and Geoffrey Pyatt have them discussing which American backed stooge to install (Yatsenuk or alternatives).

        http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957

        All of this info is easily found, backed up with very good evidence. Try and educate youself a bit on this scotto. Although I caution you it will really make you uneasy, if not disgusted with the way we do business in regards to foreign policy, and how our mass media hides or presents it for American consumption.

  • avatar
    redapple

    Sick people – those that are constantly on the lookout for something to be OUTRAGED about.

    Disgusting.

    Grow the [email protected]#K up !!

    • 0 avatar
      PrincipalDan

      While I support things like removing certain monuments, such as the Nathan Bedford Forrest one (unless it’s intended to be satire which is what it looks like.)

      https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/ugly-nathan-bedford-forrest-statue

      But being offended by keeping a replica car accurate falls into what I like to call: “If you’re looking to be offended, you’re going to be.”

      • 0 avatar
        Rick T.

        Nope. It’s very real and in ernest. It’s still sporting the pink paint as of last week. They tried to get TDOT to plant vegetation to obscure the view but TDOT says they don’t plant for cosmetic purposes. Too bad as it would have led to the epic observation that “You can’t see Forrest for the trees.”

        They have also tried to get a bust of Forrest moved from the state capital but no joy there, either.

      • 0 avatar
        Lie2me

        I lived in Georgia for 25 years and to be honest there was a little too much pride in what I consider the darkest period in America’s history. I certainly don’t condone the erasing of history, keeping history in museums where it belongs and not on cars or flagpoles is the best compromise. I doubt that anyone in Germany wants to see a tag with a swastika on the front of any Mercedes

        • 0 avatar
          redapple

          LIE:

          Agreed. Nice observation.

          PS- I ve lived in Woodstock GA for the last 25 years.

          • 0 avatar
            lzaffuto

            I agree. I don’t think we should destroy statues or try to hide or bury history, but there are too many people here that are proud of that period in history. I’ve been in Woodstock for 7 years and GA for 12 years. I’m originally from Baton Rouge, LA. Growing up in Louisiana, it was quite different… sure there were a few oddball people here or there that loved the battle flag, and there are statues and streets named after confederate stuff (mostly in New Orleans), but for the most part people were of the mindset that the confederacy was just another short period of transition for the state from one controlling power to another (IE Spanish to French, French to American, American to Confederate, Confederate back to American). Nobody I grew up with, friends, family, or acquaintances cared about the “south” as a confederate identity or really cared about the battle flag. It’s really strange to me how many people see it as a point of pride here.

          • 0 avatar
            redapple

            IZA:

            See you at Reformation Brewery some day.

          • 0 avatar
            Luke42

            lzaffuto,

            The history of the American Civil War very much needs to be in history books. The implications of it are still echoing through our culture today, and people need to understand what happened — the brutality of slavery, the contemporary economics, the contemporary culture, and even the battles and tactics.

            Where I grew up, people were still digging bullets and belt buckles out of their back yard, and civil war battlefields were just something you drove past on your way to town. It was a brutal ugly conflict, with brutal ugly issues at its center. It’s important to understand this stuff.

            The issue is that this history should not be up on a pedestal, though. That’s the the case with the statues in a very literalnway. Take them down, and put this stuff where it belongs — in a history book!

          • 0 avatar
            Luke42

            lzaffuto,

            The history of the American Civil War very much needs to be in history books. The implications of it are still echoing through our culture today, and people need to understand what happened — the brutality of slavery, the contemporary economics, the contemporary culture, and even the battles and tactics.

            Where I grew up, people were still digging bullets and belt buckles out of their back yard, and civil war battlefields were just something you drove past on your way to town. It was a brutal ugly conflict, with brutal ugly issues at its center. It’s important to understand this stuff.

            The issue is that this history should not be up on a pedestal, though. That’s the the case with the statues in a very literal way. Take them down, and put this stuff where it belongs — in a history book!

  • avatar
    teddyc73

    “current woke sensibilities” Whatever that means. So sick of these leftist lunatics seeing racism in everything. Who gave them the authority on what is racist. Totally deranged.

    • 0 avatar
      Luke42

      Once you see how deeply racism pervades our culture, you can’t unsee it.

      In Southern culture, you just shove things like racism under the rug. As an ex-Southerner, I realize straight talk about racism can raise uncomfortable questions — perhaps you need a Safe Space(tm)?

  • avatar
    SirRaoulDuke

    In the outlaw spirit of The Bandit, I say they should just show up and do the jump anyway.

  • avatar
    Flipper35

    Everyone should just boycott the event and make a different one in a different city.

  • avatar
    EGSE

    The driver played by Richard Belzer in Get On The Bus left due to the racist comments he got. Does that mean we should boycott Spike Lee movies?

    I don’t support flying the Stars and Bars for the purpose of making a statement just like I don’t believe Confederate statues celebrating the Lost Cause should have a place of honor in city squares.

    But what Detroit is doing is emblematic of fake outrage. Cosmetic efforts don’t solve real problems and Detroit has lots of real problems. The City Council should focus on them and leave revisionist history to the Stalinists.

  • avatar
    vehic1

    Shocking – that anyone is offended by Confederate or Nazi imagery, or kneeling football players.

    • 0 avatar
      28-Cars-Later

      I’m offended by society at large, where is my wambulence with blankets and hot cocoa?

    • 0 avatar
      ToddAtlasF1

      If Jack Daniels starts Lynching black Republicans like they did during Reconstruction in Lynchburg, TN, then you won’t see me drinking their whiskey even when I’m offered it for free. If Mercedes-Benz starts painting Swastikas on the flanks of their F1 cars again, then I won’t be cheering for Lewis Hamilton this season. Unlike Jack Daniels and Mercedes-Benz, the NFL actually doesn’t want my money.

      • 0 avatar
        Luke42

        Back in the 1860s, the Republicans were the progressive party.

        One hundred and fifty years later, the Republicans seem to want the 1860s back, and the Democrats have neen the progressive party for the past 5-6 decades.

        Anyone who wants to pretend otherwise needs to read a history book covering the United States from the 1860s through about Y2K.

      • 0 avatar
        el scotto

        I rather doubt that a bottle of Jack Daniels, let alone a whole case could lynch someone. Nevermind, that Jack Daniels wasn’t a distillery until 1875 and Jack himself learned the whiskey making trade from a slave who later became free. With the Nazis being thorough, industries had to succumb to the party. To resist them lead to a bad result. So following your logic, we should avoid any and all products/German companies that existed before WWII. BTW, it’s illegal for Mercedes to put swastikas on their F1 cars. The Germans are funny that way. By ending;You’re confusing actions taken in a geographical location with a product made there (Jack Daniels) and the actions of an evil government making a company display their symbols (Mercedes-Benz) to make sense, if not facts in your mind.

      • 0 avatar

        According to the Tuskeegee Institute, one third of the people lynched in the U.S. between the end of the Civil War and 1968 were white.

        As for kneeling football players, they can kneel all they want, on their own time. At games they’re employees and subject to the same restrictions on free speech in the workplace as any employee.

        • 0 avatar
          el scotto

          Ronnie, your last sentence drips with irony. The sheer fact we can have a site like TTAC is founded in free speech. Outside of politeness,decorum, and some things you can’t say at work without be fired/getting sued (knuckleheads abound) there are very little limits on free speech at the workplace. Things that get your high-rise briefs all in a knot are not restricted or even fire-able offenses; just things you disagree with. The players can kneel unless there is a league/team rule about or it’s forbidden in their contract. There are clear, against the law fire- able things you can’t say at work. Language that should be restricted. After that, politeness and decorum rule what you can/should say at work. Just because you disagree with words or actions doesn’t mean they should be restricted.

          • 0 avatar
            EGSE

            @el scotto

            What you wrote doesn’t jibe with the way it is and I’m surprised you hold the opinion that you do.

            It is understood that you do not express a personal agenda when representing your employer at seminars, trade shows, expositions or on TDY to a customer. Any venue you are at on company time or at a company function has restrictions. I viewed the “take a knee” display as Ronnie does; they are employees and represent their employer when on the field. Their employer can impose restrictions on what they can/cannot do. I personally feel they have a valid concern to say the least….of course it’s in all our interests to not be shot dead!

            A supervisor I worked for was told to change his t-shirt because it said “Welcome to America, now speak English”. I was told to remove a picture from my desk that showed me at a gun range. My girlfriend had the exact same thing happen to her where she worked. Employees have been told they cannot pass out campaign information during elections or ballot initiatives. To not comply would be a career-limiting move with little recourse available to the aggrieved employee.

            Have you seen the ads that Boeing is running, where employees talk about some aspect of their lives such as what they did in their military service prior to their employment? They don’t get to volunteer to do those spots, when you hire on you sign an employee agreement stating the company can have you appear in advertisements for the company. You also have to tell them what public advocacy work you do on your own time such as whether you are involved in public meetings about zoning or land-use in your community. I signed it when I worked for them.

            One employer told me they had the right to say whether I could continue to serve in the volunteer fire/EMS company where I live. I consulted an attorney friend and he found a loophole exempting public services that have no bearing on my employers field of business. But another employee had to quit his after-hours pizza delivery job since in the companies opinion it could conflict with whether they had *access to his time* if a crunch happened (we were salaried).

            That IS the way corporate America does it. You might not like it but it’s reality.

          • 0 avatar
            ToddAtlasF1

            el scotto,

            There is no free speech in the workplace. There are some sound reasons for this, and there are some limitations placed by the effectiveness of cultural Marxism. We live in a country where half the time you have to pretend the leader of the government is illegitimate and half the time you have to regurgitate the falsehoods the state has been drumming into you. Charlottesville has made you the very embodiment of George Carlin’s political correctness. There is free speech, and then there is speech limited by politeness, decorum, and the judgment of the dominant culture. You are espousing the opposite of free speech and calling it free speech. You’ve become an Orwellian caricature. #walkawayfromcharlottesville #walkawayfromfascism.

            Anyone who says a new term can’t be created by joining two words to show modified meaning of one must have the self-awareness of the social justice warrior. Social justice is the joining of two terms to change the meaning of the later from justice to injustice. Justice is about getting what you deserve. Social justice is about separating outcomes from behavior. Denying cultural Marxism while accepting social justice is an act of cultural Marxism.

        • 0 avatar
          James Charles

          Players are contracted, not salaried or on wages. Not employees.

          • 0 avatar
            EGSE

            We could debate this ad infinitum. But the issue they’re protesting is deadly serious and I’m stepping back. We’re arguing trivialities in the face of *homicides* and I for one am sorry to have lost sight of that. This issue deserves better. Mea Culpa.

  • avatar
    Luke42

    ABOUT ME:
    I grew up in the Rural South, in an area steeped in Civil War history. I understand the Confederate Battle Flag through the eyes of its enthusiasts.

    But, I was too much of a nerd to return to that rather anti-intellectual culture once I finished college, and moved away. I now live in a college town where my neighbors are from all over the world. I now also see the Confederate Battle Flag through the eyes of everyone else, too — and much of the history it represents is obscene.

    DISPLAYING THR CONFEDRATE FLAG IN PUBLIC:
    My home town put on a Confederate Flag Rally a few years ago and the fact that this happened is personally emberassing to me almost four years later. The video and the people patting themselves on the back for displaying an obscene symbol of slavery make me ashamed to hail from that place. Either they’re a bunch of ignorant yokels who don’t understand their own heritage, or they’re a bunch of [email protected]$$ [email protected]!sts — you’re the viewer, you decide!

    There are many good things about the area and it’s history, but they chose to celebrate the our national shame instead — and looked like a bunch of yokels in Confederate flag adorned pickup trucks doing it. Way to scare away the tourists who support the local economy, guys, and ensure that the kids who grew up there and left after college never want to come back. Facepalm.

    MY TAKE ON CONFEDERATE HISTORY:
    To be clear, I think the history of the Civil War belongs in this history books — including the obscenity of slavery, including the wacky and varied economic and social conditions before and after the war, and including the tactical brilliance of the military commanders. But the Confederate brass did commit treason against the United States of America and against the idea that all people are created equal — even though the Confederate leaders weren’t prosecuted for this treason after the war for reasons of political stability. These people don’t deserve to be up on pedestals. And I wouldn’t be celebrating this rather ugly and brutal history by wrapping my truck up in their flag, neither.

    CONCLUSION:
    I guess “my people” back home did us a favor by showing their true colors. I’m emberassed to be from a place like this, and I apologise on behalf of my deeply ignorant and flawed home town.

    I applaud Detroit for telling an organization which who thinks displaying the Confederate flag is acceptable to stay out of town.

    • 0 avatar
      EGSE

      The article Ronnie wrote appears to state the Confederate flag would not be displayed at the show. Are you angry because you believe the offending imagery would be present, or is it you don’t like the people because they showed it in the past even though they are making an effort to not do so now?

      If it is the second, do you believe anyone who is convicted of a crime and serves their time can be welcomed back into society?

      • 0 avatar
        el scotto

        Mr. EGSE,
        any who fought for the Confederacy was a traitor. One of the more sensible things the government did was pardon them and tell them to basically go home and go about their lives. Anyone who revels in displaying symbols of their treason deserves to be treated as a yokel. At the least. To dishonor men who deliberately chose to be traitors to their country and suffer the deprivations of war, often caused by an inept government, is a whole other debate. However, the battle flag of the Army of Northern Virginia is cultural shorthand saying that yes, I supported slavery and racism that exists to this day. Lee didn’t make the Danville train; his soldiers were starving. An unpardonable offense by itself. Custer also got lucky. Again.

        • 0 avatar
          EGSE

          @el scotto

          We agree re treasonous activity.

          As my post above indicated I don’t approve of waving the Confederate flag because it is used as a dog whistle to express a repugnant belief held by the waver. It is not what our country should stand for (I have concerns after Charlottesville). Even Jefferson Davis started to lose faith with some of the tenets of the Confederacy while he was their president.

          It appears the City Council is having heartburn with what the organization did in the past, not with what it is doing at the show. If there is evidence that the Dukes are *advocating a racist agenda today*, even if it is not at the Detroit function, then IMO they have a valid concern. If they have reformed and no longer embrace what is offensive then it leaves room for debate, again just in my opinion.

      • 0 avatar
        Luke42

        I’m actually upset because “my people” back home act like a bunch of ignorant racists when they display the Confederate flag.

        Some of them can’t see what the symbols mean, because they are ignorant of their own history. Some of them know the history and like it, because they actually are racists.

        So, I’m left with a choice:
        1. I let “my people” make us all into the bad guys by being ignorant and/or racist. This is the culture I came from, and so tolerating this kind of display reflects says something about my character.
        2. I disown “my people”, and the culture I came from, because I don’t want to associate myself with that stuff.

        This is a no-win situation for those of who know enough about the world beyond the county line to see the problem.

        Most of my nerdy high school friends who went to college and moved away chose option 2 — and a few will respond with an explitive-laden rant to the idea that they might set foot in the county where we all grew up. I’m now there, too.

        As for the Detroit situation, the Confederate Battle Flag really does represent some obscene history — and the ancestors many Detroiters were undoubtedly abused by the ancestors of the people who flew that flag (great migration). I understand why folks in Detroit wouldn’t want that $#!t in their town — I don’t want that $#!t in my town, either.

        • 0 avatar
          EGSE

          Luke, you and I hold the same opinions on racism and prejudice. But in reading what you’ve written to this thread, when you moved away those beliefs at some point became anathema to you. So can we conclude that at one time they were not as toxic in your mind as they are now? Doesn’t that mean that at one time you were similar to those people that you are disparaging here?

          And if those that you are convicting for their thoughts were to adopt an opinion you would approve of, would you welcome them into the comity of mankind as your personal beliefs would describe it?

    • 0 avatar
      28-Cars-Later

      EXAM PROCTOR: All right, here’s your last question: What was the cause of the Civil War?

      APU: Actually, there were numerous causes. Aside from the obvious schism between abolitionists and anti-abolitionists, economic factors, both domestic and international, played a significant…

      EXAM PROCTOR: Hey, Mate.

      APU: Yeah.

      EXAM PROCTOR: Just say slavery.

      APU: Slavery it is, sir.

      • 0 avatar
        Lie2me

        Actually, 28, the Civil War had mostly to do with state’s rights, but when state’s rights goes contrary to Federal law you’re going to have a problem

        • 0 avatar
          highdesertcat

          We see that now with Sanctuary States, etc.

        • 0 avatar
          Luke42

          The states right stuff was all really about slavery.

          It was about “states rights” to have slavery within their borders. It was about “states rights” to recapture slaves which escape to non-slaveholding states.

          The South’s economy was completely dependent upon slavery.

          It was about slavery. Really.

          My high school history teacher tried to pull the “states rights” argument on us, and it would have worked if we were too dumb.
          to read what was in our textbooks about the Fugutive Slave Act.

          The Civil War really was all about to slavery, which is a moral abomination which is contradicted by the very foundational documents of the American political philosophy. And, yes, the Confederate flag is a symbol of all of that history — both the stars and bars, and the battle flag.

          • 0 avatar
            gtem

            The slavery issue was very deeply intertwined with the economy of the South as I learned it: the South was more agrarian, namely they grew cotton to sell that would then by shipped to northern factories to make into clothes. Southern states saw the wealthy industrialized North dictating them terms on slavery as directly affecting their economy in a very fundamental way.

            I’ll draw a tenuous parallel to how some of the regional economic disparity between educated coastal/urban Americans (both liberal journalists and neo-con think tanks) telling lesser educated Americans in de-industrialized areas to “learn to code” or to just relocate to the oil fields of North Dakota as going down the same road of economic antagonism.

            I’ve also read more recently some modern analysis on what ultimately lead to the breaking-down of civil debate and how things eventually lead down the road of hostilities. Elsewhere in the Western world, slavery was abolished WITHOUT mass insurrection or civil strife.

    • 0 avatar

      Are you familiar with the term oikophobia?

      “But, I was too much of a nerd to return to that rather anti-intellectual culture once I finished college, and moved away.”

      At least you’re honest about aspiring to the values of elitists in Manhattan, San Francisco, and Cambridge.

      Rather amazing, isn’t it, that you managed to overcome being raised by cretins and racists to become the moral avatar that you are today?

      • 0 avatar
        el scotto

        Ronnie,
        you put words into Luke42’s mouth. Not desiring to return to an anti-intellectual culture does not mean that someone wants to assume “the values of elitists in Manhattan, San Francisco, and Cambridge”. Nice of you to throw in three cities that are dog whistles to the Breitbart crowd. The realization that Thomas Wolfe was right will only cause blue states to become bluer.

  • avatar
    jatz

    Look at it this way:

    When was the last time a race-carding, opportunistic, utterly disingenuous black politician actually STOPPED a noisy and potentially dangerous public demonstration?

  • avatar
    brn

    The true symbolic nature of the Confederate flag is secession from the union, yet no one references secession when they choose to be offended. Why not?

  • avatar
    -Nate

    I see that once again the city of Detroit has stepped on it’s dick .

    Nothing new here, the rest of the whining is just window dressing .

    -Nate

  • avatar
    namesakeone

    Personally, I would rather not have the jump because I don’t want to see a second-gen F-body destroyed like they did the (admittedly very far gone) Charger two years ago. Maybe it’s best that the Confederate flag be on the front bumper–theoretically the very first part of the car to be smashed.

  • avatar

    Am I surprised that America follows the steps of Soviet Komissars rewriting history and blowing up churches and monuments? I knew America seemed to be too good to be true and and if it is it cannot last forever. But the thing is that people, even those never experienced freedom, get nostalgic and develop warm feeling about free past, especially when present is oppressive and bland as what Socialist Democrats propose. And then communist regime eventually falls because nobody supports it in the end. Then history gets rewritten again and churches and monuments are rebuilt.

    • 0 avatar
      gtem

      The parallel I would make is more-so the destruction of Lenin monuments throughout Ukraine since the latest coup in 2014. In certain southern and eastern Ukrainian cities, there have been people protecting the Lenins as they look back on the industrialization-driven prosperity of the Soviet era with nostalgia. They see the Ukrainian nationalists that come from out of town to smash the monuments as outsiders trying to dictate what to think and how to live their lives.

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