By on August 24, 2017

20-2014-jeep-cherokee-chrome-grille

Years from now — perhaps even now, for the younger generation — I think people will have trouble understanding that a significant percentage of humanity used to derive a good living from arbitrage of one form or another. We live in a world now that has been effectively flattened by the standardized shipping container and the Internet. It was not always so. Think of Max Hoffman towing one Beetle behind another one all the way from an East Coast port to a Midwest town then taking the train home.

Even more interesting is that people used to be accustomed to paying money for information and/or access to knowledge. For instance, my old pal Alex Roy grew up in his father’s business, Europe By Car, which was (and still is) a service that arranged overseas rentals for American customers. Can you imagine that there was once a time when people couldn’t just click a couple of buttons and have a rental car waiting for them in London or Stuttgart? Crazy, I know.

The imperial ease with which we command the delivery of things from China or arrange hotel rooms in Zurich from the comfort of our living room in Milwaukee sometimes blinds us to the fact that sometimes you just have to deal with the impacts of distance and displacement. Our friend Brent is experiencing one of those times, at least by proxy.


He writes,

My mother in law is moving from sunny SoCal to the upper Midwest. She currently has a Jeep Cherokee, but she likes small cars and once had a Hyundai Elantra and she would like to have another one. While I would love to have a URAL 4320 Expedition Truck for those two days every five years the weather is too bad to go to work I think she will be fine with a small front wheel drive car since she will be retired and has nowhere she needs to be that can’t wait for the weather to clear. Here is her question though — she would like to know if she is better off financially bringing the California Jeep to the upper Midwest and trading it, or should she trade it out there and bring her new car back?

This is the kind of question I really dig because there are so many factors to consider. In this case, however, just like the Magic 8 Ball, all the signs point in one direction. Here are some of my thoughts:

Cars, like eggs, are cheaper in the country. California and New York are, in my experience, the worst places in America to buy a new car. The dealerships incur tremendous costs thanks to high labor and real estate pricing and they have no compunction whatsoever about passing along those costs to the customer. All else being equal, you’ll pay more for a new car in California than you will in, say, Michigan. You’ll also get less money for your used car because the dealer needs more margin.

Taxes are higher in California. Sales taxes in the People’s Republic can range up to 8.25 percent. Maybe more, for all I know. There’s no place outside Chicago that charges that kind of sales tax in the Midwest. Also, California doesn’t let you count the trade-in against the sales tax calculation. In Ohio, if you trade in a $25,000 car on a $50,000 car, you pay $25k worth of sales tax. In California, you pay $50k worth of sales tax. Michigan is somewhere between the two.

Registering a car is more expensive in California. So do it somewhere else.

Each mile on a car is cheaper than the previous one. There are obvious exceptions to that, most of them having to do with buying an S-Class Benz right before the air suspension goes full Hindenburg, but if you have the choice between putting 2,400 miles on your old Cherokee or a new Elantra you should pick the Cherokee. Chances are the trade-in value won’t drop that much from the mileage. So put it on the old car.

I suspect, but can’t prove, that a Jeep might carry better resale value in the Midwest. Your mileage may vary.

It can be a real hassle moving a newly titled car across state lines. A lot of it depends on which state you’re heading to, of course. In the absolute worst-case scenario, you might end up paying certain taxes twice.

So that’s my opinion on the matter. There is one thing that might be worth exploring: selling the car privately in California, collecting the money, then flying or taking a U-Haul to the new state, at which point your mother-in-law buys the Elantra of her dreams. Try running the numbers both ways and seeing what you get. While you’re doing that, take a minute to marvel at the fact that the differences between states have not been completely flattened by the Internet and the information economy and the modern corpo-tocracy. Cherish that for a moment. Someday it might matter a lot more than it does now.

[Image: Fiat Chrysler Automobiles]

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88 Comments on “Ask Jack: You’ve Got to Know When to Fold ‘Em...”


  • avatar
    Pig_Iron

    From the headline, I thought Baruth was signing off. No such luck.
    ;-)

    • 0 avatar
      Carrera

      He better not sign off. He and his brother is what makes me come back to this site.

      • 0 avatar
        Bob Roberts

        All of these delicate folks reading/commenting here who can’t handle the colorful musings of Mark and Jack Baruth would be better served by subscribing to Consumer Reports and watching MotorWeek (I wonder what surprises Goss has in his garage?)

        • 0 avatar
          Maymar

          There’s worthwhile Baruth musings, and then musings that seem to exist just to inspire hateclicks or pander to a certain portion of the B&B (especially considering Jack can reign it in for his R&T gig, and they’ve got Riverside Green as an outlet to say whatever largely non-automotive opinions they occasionally feel belong here).

        • 0 avatar
          Fred

          What? We are not allowed to critisize! This isn’t run by Trump now is it?

          • 0 avatar
            Bob Roberts

            Who ever said anything about not being able to criticize, and who is to judge what is “worthwhile”? If you have established that you don’t like a writer, then don’t read their work. As seen in the comment section of the recent Audi Q3 article, too many people here would love to see the dismissal of writers who bring a lot to this website. Those people would be better suited to get their truth about cars from Consumer Reports.

            Or maybe Verticalscope could revive the corpse of VMG’s Motive Magazine and post all sorts of vanilla reviews /news there…

    • 0 avatar
      doug-g

      Jack Baruth lives in the shadow of G-d. His presence forms the halo that keeps the unicorn, that is TTAC, afloat.

    • 0 avatar
      Sceptic

      J Baruch is a great asset to this website. He produces the most exciting and insightful articles here, despite being somewhat opinionated sometimes.

  • avatar

    I’m not sure about the age of the Cherokee, but if it’s fairly new with low miles, why not keep it? CUVs are better in snow because of their slightly higher ground clearance, even if they are only FWD.

    Incidentally, sales tax in red state Kansas averages about 9.125%, so I’d gladly pay the 8.25% rate in the Peoples Republic of California.

    • 0 avatar
      dukeisduke

      But you only have to pay the *state* sales tax, right? What is it in Kansas? Here in Texas, the state sales tax (the only tax you have to pay on a car) is 6.25%. Cities add their taxes and transit taxes, so around Dallas it’s generally 8.00 to 8.25%, but the tax on cars is still 6.25%. We’ve bought two used cars in six months (for the same daughter, ugh), and taxes weren’t bad.

      • 0 avatar

        6.25% for the state of Kansas as well, but they don’t give us the sweetheart deal. If you buy from an in-state dealer, you pay at their rate. For example Olathe is a KC suburb on the Kansas side of the state line with lots of car dealers – you’d pay 9.475%.

        If you buy out of state, you pay at the rate where the car is registered. If you lived in the same county as the above example, but not in any city, you’d still pay 7.975% to the state and county.

    • 0 avatar
      Flipper35

      One, she hates the Jeep (I won’t go into why she has it) and two, she doesn’t need to go anywhere that can’t wait a day for the roads to get cleared.

      • 0 avatar
        sportyaccordy

        (I won’t go into why she has it)

        Now you’re obligated to.

        I would probably sell the Jeep in California, move carless, buy Elantra upon arrival. That way she won’t have to deal with shipping costs or hassle, or any title shenanigans. With the money she saves, she can probably do a rental for a week or so and still have a couple hundred bucks left over. I would definitely write out all the potential costs and do some kind of analysis… but my gut says avoiding shipping is the cheapest and easiest route.

        • 0 avatar
          MBella

          This sounds like the best option

        • 0 avatar
          Toad

          There are fewer things that most people like less than moving and buying/selling/trading a car. Combining both at the same time seems like way too much stress, particularly for a retiree.

          Mom would have to:
          -sell her Jeep in CA (private party or take a beating at a dealer) and hope that goes smoothly
          -rent something to drive while she finalizes her move
          -fly to new home
          -rent another car
          -do all the BS you need to do to establish residency, move in, etc. in new state
          -shop for and buy new car.

          …versus drive Jeep to new home, get moved in, and take time to shop for new car as time and energy allows.

          My gut says moving carless would be easier for younger males than retiree females; anything that makes mom’s move less complex sounds like a better plan.

          • 0 avatar
            Toad

            Note: above comment made assuming Mom is able and willing to drive her Jeep from CA to her new midwestern home. If she is not, sell the Jeep to Carmax and fly.

    • 0 avatar
      Jeff Zekas

      actually, most places in Cali, the sales tax is over 9%

      • 0 avatar
        Lorenzo

        Yes, there’s the base sales tax of 7.25%, plus a half-cent here, a half-cent there, and it adds up. Los Angeles in general is 9.25% (just went up .50% in July), but a couple communities are up to 10.25%.

    • 0 avatar
      dmoan

      I would dump the KL Cherokee any opportunity you can it is a dump and one of most unreliable cars in the market. I have one and i have no faith in it whatsoever and try to fight with Chrysler for my money back.

      • 0 avatar
        Vulpine

        Tell me about this “unreliable” KL Cherokee. How is it equipped? What did you pay? Exactly why is it “unreliable”? What would you sell it for?

        • 0 avatar
          dmoan

          Well it’s fully equipped model with V6 and lux package. Everything from tailgate, display going blank to vehicle not starting when it’s hot ( yes really).

          Chrysler customer service is God awful, they never returned calls and their response is till dealer reproduces it it is not an issue even if there is check engine codes. I posted in Reddit people seem to think it’s bad circuit board and Chrysler knows what the issue is and simply giving me runaround.

          Car is worth 1/2 the sticker price is 1 year (41k in 2016 now KBB value is 21k) I am trying to get Chrysler to buyback under lemon law.

          • 0 avatar
            Vulpine

            Rear camera is easy fix and yes, IS temperature related.
            I expect the BCM has a cold solder joint… also temperature related.

            As to why the dealer can’t duplicate it? They’re testing it inside an air-conditioned shop of course. Tell them to leave it out in the sun for a while.

            This isn’t FCA’s fault, it’s the bloomin’ DEALER. Take it to another dealer.

            Of course, if I could afford it, I’d buy it at Blue Book value and get it fixed here. My local dealership was pretty good at fixing a defective camera (what do you expect when you buy from whomever offers the lowest price?). Hey, all electronics go bad eventually. I fault the soldering method because while it’s fast, it’s much too easy to get a ‘cold’ connection. Best fix is to go in and hand-solder but shops don’t do that any more.

  • avatar
    pmirp1

    I recommend sell the Cherokee where you are and buy at the new home state. In the long run, support the local dealer and economy. You always get better service at dealer you buy from, than some other dealer states away.

  • avatar
    FormerFF

    I wouldn’t recommend asking one’s retired mother to drive halfway across the country in a U-Haul. Instead, use PODS or similar and have her fly, or if she’s of the adventurous sort, drive. 2000 miles in a UHaul is apt to make her sore for weeks.

    • 0 avatar
      frankev

      My mother-in-law who is in her late 60s relocated from Chicago to Atlanta recently–she’ll be living permanently with one of her daughters. She and her stuff made it to Georgia in three stages: (1) she flew to Atlanta with some luggage containing necessary clothing items, toiletries, etc.; (2) a couple of days later, my son and his girlfriend, both in their early 20s, drove her car (2013 Kia Rio) to Atlanta on a Saturday and flew back to Chicago the next day; (3) the movers came a week or so after that with her furniture, etc. Overall not a bad way to do it.

  • avatar
    ash78

    The sales tax on a car purchase is rarely — if ever — the same as the general sales tax. I live in a 9%-10% sales tax area, but depending on the city, new car purchases are only taxed at 3%-4%.

    It seems like full tax would kill the market, since that’s no small chunk of change.

    YMMV

  • avatar
    deanst

    I do the opposite for my mom – buy cars in a big city (Toronto) and she goes back to northern Ontario with them. The cars are vastly cheaper here – versus the non-competition of one dealer per brand in her city.

    Another thing to consider is whether someone will go with her to buy the car. The best laid plans can go awry if she gets suckered into $500 vin etching or $1000 rust proofing.

  • avatar
    ToddAtlasF1

    Definitely take the Cherokee to the Midwest and sell it. Nothing rusts like a Jeep, and one from SoCal will be a treasure to the first used car appraiser who sees fasteners that aren’t oxidized to disintegrating surfaces.

    • 0 avatar
      gtemnykh

      If this is an older XJ Cherokee, 100% this, that California Cherokee will be worth a mint if it is 4wd. If she’s driving a newer KL, then none of the above applies at this age of vehicle.

      • 0 avatar
        ToddAtlasF1

        You’d be surprised. KL’s are made out of a mixture of papier-mâché and schlock alloys. I’ve seen one with complete rear suspension failure, and our roads are salted for the first snow fall of the season only.

        • 0 avatar
          gtemnykh

          You’ll forgive me if I don’t believe a word of that, however poorly I think of Chrysler’s corrosion engineering.

          • 0 avatar
            ToddAtlasF1

            They’ve got soft rear lower control arms. They start out with an arch but straighten over time, tilting the wheels out at the bottom. It is a known issue. Pay attention to the ones you see on the street. It won’t take long to notice that some of them have more camber than a stanced MK1 Golf.

          • 0 avatar
            gtemnykh

            Yowza, I’ll definitely keep an eye out for it.

          • 0 avatar
            ToddAtlasF1

            Take a look at the one pictured at the top of this article.

  • avatar

    I think Jack is right. Sell not trade in California or keep it. Also include in your calculations, the registration fees. Your Mom is doing what I just did -getting out of what was once the Golden State.

  • avatar
    FreedMike

    Here’s a missing piece of info: does mom in law own the Cherokee outright? If she financed it, how far upside down is she? If she’s upside down on the Jeep, then I have no idea how trading it for an Elantra makes any kind of sense.

    Either way, if I were Brent, I’d advise her to keep the Cherokee through one winter, and then decide if she needs it or not. I suspect she’ll like having something with AWD when the weather turns to excrement. She might end up more interested in an Impreza when all’s said and done.

    • 0 avatar
      Flipper35

      She is not upside down on it. She does not, in any way shape or form, like the Jeep. She did like the Subie they rented a couple years ago and if she needs AWD, that is an option. She likes small sedans.

      She is not the type to sell it outright and that is how we ended up with a 2013 Rogue. They didn’t want to sell it outright and the CA dealers would give them very little in trade for it.

      • 0 avatar
        FreedMike

        Ah, good to know.

        I still say…stick with the Jeep one winter, just to see if she wants AWD. If she does, and she doesn’t care about going fast (or looking good), an Impreza would be a great option for her. Pick one up next spring.

        Besides, I’d have to think a car with AWD would probably have better resale in Michigan than SoCal, so she might get a better trade on the Jeep after she moves. But I’ve been known to be wrong.

        • 0 avatar
          PrincipalDan

          A potential issue with trade in value in the Midwest is how many people have “Friends and Family” pricing because of who they work for and who their relatives are. This drives down new car ATPs that can have an effect on used car resale.

      • 0 avatar
        28-Cars-Later

        Coulda had a boxer.

  • avatar
    Vulpine

    “My mother in law is moving from sunny SoCal to the upper Midwest. She currently has a Jeep Cherokee, but she likes small cars and once had a Hyundai Elantra and she would like to have another one. While I would love to have a URAL 4320 Expedition Truck for those two days every five years the weather is too bad to go to work I think she will be fine with a small front wheel drive car since she will be retired and has nowhere she needs to be that can’t wait for the weather to clear. Here is her question though — she would like to know if she is better off financially bringing the California Jeep to the upper Midwest and trading it, or should she trade it out there and bring her new car back?”
    —- Considering regional pricing, etc, her best bet would be to sell the Jeep in California, fly or take the train to the mid-west and buy a car there. The Jeep’s value will be significantly lower in the mid-west and she would be significantly overpaying for the new car in California. The exception might be if the Jeep is one of the more extensive AWD versions or even a Trailhawk due to mid-western snow but I’m almost betting that hers is a 2WD version.

    “Taxes are higher in California. Sales taxes in the People’s Republic can range up to 8.25 percent. Maybe more, for all I know. There’s no place outside Chicago that charges that kind of sales tax in the Midwest.”
    —- You haven’t been to Tennessee, have you? Counting state and local taxes, some cities are only fractions of a penny shy of 10% sales tax.

  • avatar
    everybodyhatesscott

    I would like to lodge a complaint that there weren’t any sexual references or notes of past conquests. I read Baruth for a reason and this was sorely lacking.

  • avatar

    Another thought:Look at online pricing guides like KBB, NADA, Edmunds, etc. and compare values between CA and the upper Midwest. If the potential sales price in CA is higher and offsets the cost of moving the Cherokee to the Midwest, sell it in CA. Otherwise sell or trade it in the Midwest.

    Also check to see if the state you are moving to would still allow a tax credit on a vehicle you sold in another state. (I doubt it will, but worth checking). If you can’t get the tax credit in CA, but can in the new state, it may be worth it to sell/trade it there, if the savings more than offsets the cost of moving the car.

    • 0 avatar
      Scoutdude

      Yeah if the state you are moving only requires the sales tax on the difference between the new car and the trade in that can make a huge difference in the total cost. Say it is worth 15K in trade in and the tax rate is 9% that is $1350 saved by trading it in the new state. But of course you still have to factor in the values in the respective areas. Many years ago I had a customer that was a wholesaler. This was back when the PNW represented a huge chunk of the US sales volume for Subaru. So he would go to CA and buy Subarus bring them back to WA and wholesale them for a tidy profit. He also liked the Auction in Salt Lake City. For that he would often fly down with a tow bar wrapped in a blanket as his checked baggage. He would then buy a pickup and a car and use the pickup to tow the car back. I also frequently seen convoys of Toyota Pickups towing other Toyota Pickups south on I5. I’ve seen a couple of cases where a old car carrier was loading up those old Toyota pickups in a vacant lot locally, again to take them to CA or possibly Mexico to sell. So there is definitely pricing differentials between areas that wholesalers and others exploit for profit.

      • 0 avatar
        PrincipalDan

        Good explanation. My commute is mostly US 491 and I’ve noticed Toyota pickups towing other Toyotas (ALWAYS Toyotas) south on 491 at least once a month.

        Must be what’s happening.

  • avatar
    MrGreenMan

    There’s a whole gaggle of older widows at my church who still get around in a Ford Focus, rain, sun, or Michigan winter. At some age, the deciding factor will be whether it’s easier for her to get in or out of either vehicle, and, if the weather’s too bad to go somewhere, as every retiree I know will testify, you just stay home until it’s sunny again.

  • avatar
    PrincipalDan

    Cars, like eggs, are cheaper in the country.

    That depends. Phoenix (4+ million people) and Albuquerque (500,000 people) dealerships will generally kick the behinds of dealerships in Gallup (20,000 people) when it comes to the out the door price.

    • 0 avatar

      Yeah it does depend. Rural Maine not finding a deal. Springifeld MA (small city) might find some deals. NYC Deals on used cars but not on new ones. It’s kind of weird actually.

      • 0 avatar
        PrincipalDan

        In my area it is all about competition. Many of the small town dealers here feel like “if you won’t pay that price, some other idiot will.”

        My wife’s favorite dealer seems to be willing to give silly high trade in value in lieu of actually coming down on MSRP more than whatever the manufacturers rebates are at that point. I can’t really figure out why. The purchase price ends up being the same.

    • 0 avatar
      fvfvsix

      I’m convinced that the Phoenix suburbs are the cheapest place in the country to buy a non-domestic vehicle, especially if you exclude taxes (which in AZ are assessed by locality, and can range between about 7% and 10%).

    • 0 avatar
      EricJ

      SoCal has possibly the cheapest new and used car prices in the US. Offset by taxes, but cheap. It hits a peak in Los Angeles, which might be the cheapest place in the entire country to buy cars.

      Where I live the situation is exactly reversed – dealers in smaller cities will bend over backward for your business, while dealers in the city will gouge you hard. The bigger they are and the larger the population, the more brutally they gouge.

  • avatar
    Der_Kommissar

    Sales taxes here in St. Louis can be upwards of 10% thanks to our 90+ towns and municipalities that all have police departments to fund (It’s 7.13% for me). We also pay personal property tax just to drive the damn things every year.

    • 0 avatar
      FreedMike

      You mean, Governor I Like To Blow S**t Up With Big Assault Guns hasn’t singlehandedly drained the tax swamp?

      Shocking, I tell you!

      (Seriously, I moved out of St. Louis 25 years ago, and I’ll always have a soft spot for the 314, but the area’s strictly WTF. If New Orleans is the City that Care Forgot, St. Louis is the City that Time Forgot. Nothing changes there. City/county renification – or at least some kind of reorganization of the 124,112 little towns in the county – can’t come too soon.)

      • 0 avatar
        28-Cars-Later

        Schwarzenegger is still a governor?

        • 0 avatar
          PrincipalDan

          I miss Jesse Ventura.

          • 0 avatar
            Jeff Zekas

            Jesse Ventura- didn’t he sue the wife of a dead Navy SEAL?

          • 0 avatar
            rpn453

            It was the publishing company of the SEAL (Chris Kyle) that he sued for defamation, though his estate was attached to it. It seems that Kyle may have been a pathological liar.

            Ventura’s quite a character, but he comes across as genuine to me.

            http://podcasts.joerogan.net/podcasts/jesse-ventura

        • 0 avatar
          FreedMike

          Google “Eric Greitens campaign ad,” 28.

          @Dan:
          Jesse Ventura’s shrink misses him even more than you do.

          • 0 avatar
            PrincipalDan

            Ventura wanted to legalize prostitution and gambling in Minnesota so that he could pay for a new sports stadium.

            That’s the kind of outside the box thinking this country needs!

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            LOL…and now he’s doing that bizarre conspiracy theory show. The episode on the Denver airport (it’s a secret base for the N.W.O., dontcha know?) he did was CLASSIC.

            Guy’s a first class nutter. Entertaining, though.

  • avatar
    Fred

    I did the opposite moved from Texas to California. It’s also important to note that if you bring a newer car to another state, they will consider it new and you will pay sales tax again, if it doesn’t have some miles on it. California is 4500 miles.

    • 0 avatar
      Scoutdude

      In our state you get a credit of the sales tax payed in the other state. So go and buy a car in OR and you’ll be paying the full tax in our state but go to a state with a lower tax rate and you’ll only be on the hook for the difference. Otherwise you have to prove you owned it for I believe a minimum of 6 months while you were a resident of that state and you won’t have a use tax due to register it.

  • avatar
    Messerschmitten

    Since the Kansas state economy has been destroyed by the insane Sam

    — cutting taxes to the rich will attract employers … HA! The employers never arrived to save the day —

    Brownback*, the Kansas sales taxes are some of the most regressive in the nation.

    In Lawrence, KS, the car sales tax is 9.05%.

    http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2015/dec/22/vehicle-taxes-vary-greatly-county/

    * Brownback was recently nominated by Trump to be the U.S. Ambassador-at-Large for International Religious Freedom.

  • avatar
    Scoutdude

    There is not easy answer to this question. It all depends on the trade in value of the Cherokee and expected transaction price in the new state as well as how the taxes are handled in each location. Then apply a convenience factor, it certainly would be more convenient to take the Cherokee to CarMax in CA and sell it to them, fly to the new state, and then purchase the new car there.

  • avatar
    PandaBear

    Sell the Jeep in SoCal, fly to MidWest, and buy the new car.

    Shipping a car is not cheap, and she will probably not want to drive the car out there (driving a moving van is another matter). PODS moving is probably cheaper then either choice.

  • avatar
    fvfvsix

    My biggest question in all this is: Does anyone want to drive a car cross-country? If not, then sell in CA and re-buy at your destination. Shipping a car cross-country will cost $2000 if you want a working vehicle when it arrives. Ask me how I know…

  • avatar

    “standardized shipping container”

    Malcolm McLean, the man who made globalism possible.

    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/theymadeamerica/whomade/mclean_hi.html

  • avatar

    “It can be a real hassle moving a newly titled car across state lines.”

    Depending on the state, you may not have to title it before you get it home to your home state. I bought my current car in Oklahoma, they gave me a temporary tag and a mfg’s certificate of origin or whatever it was called. That was enough to get it home and then have the original title issued by Michigan.

  • avatar
    Fred

    Sales Tax
    https://taxfoundation.org/state-and-local-sales-tax-rates-in-2017/

    California is #10, but red state lovers of Texas isn’t far behind.

  • avatar
    Dave M.

    How about this – drive the Jeep to new locale; on the way stop at Heuberger’s in Denver and trade it for an Impreza or Crosstrek, and pay sales tax when she gets to new locale and registers the vehicle?

  • avatar
    JerseyRon

    I thought New Jersey’s 6.875% sales tax was high until I read some of the comments. Adding those local taxes sure makes a difference, but not in a good way.
    To those in Ontario, your government should learn from us. Toilet paper and certain other necessities are excluded from sales tax. According to the NJ State website, “Exempt items include: most food sold as grocery items, most clothing and footwear, disposable paper products for household use, prescription drugs, and over-the-counter drugs.” Of course we pay sky high property taxes so it all evens out.

    • 0 avatar
      EricJ

      My state suffers super high taxes. ~9% sales tax, high property taxes, business taxes, etc, but no income tax. As odd as it sounds, it’s great if you make a lot of money (super regressive), but crushing for average people.

  • avatar
    AoLetsGo

    “The imperial ease with which we command the delivery of things from China or arrange hotel rooms in Zurich from the comfort of our living room in Milwaukee sometimes blinds us to the fact that sometimes you just have to deal with the impacts of distance and displacement.”
    Even today you can put yourself in a spot where you have to deal with impact of distance and displacement. Last summer during my long, section hike on the AT I was thinking about cutting it short and doing something else during my time off. There I was in my tent thinking, hike 8 miles to the nearest road, stick my thumb out, catch a ride to the closest town, hopefully they have a bus, take bus to nearest town with an airport and fly to hub city and then fly home.

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