By on July 25, 2017

I2018 ford F-150, mage: Ford Motor Co.

If I had my way, and I’m sure others feel the same, Ford would dial back its styling about 40 years, return the 300 cubic-inch straight-six back to the F-150’s engine lineup, and dust off the column-mounted three-speed manual. We could all tool around like Uncle Jesse, confident in knowing we made a solid buying decision. As our need for fancy driver’s aids and entertainment systems and seats that do everything but propose marriage fade into hazy recollections, our only gripe would be the stickiness of the vinyl bench seat on hot, un-air conditioned days.

Never fear, though. The truck’s filled with refreshing watermelon and beer and lemonade!

Okay, enough of this fantasy, as it’s never going to happen. Not possible. Automakers are addicted to pickup truck revenue, and consumers are only too happy to play the enabler, topping up those coffers ever higher thanks to a never-ending thirst for more options, more features, more luxury.

Have we gone too far?

No longer the spartan conveyances of yesteryear, pickups have reached the point where a Ram 1500 Limited is just too limited in its cushiness. Hence the need to tack more dollars onto the MSRP so buyers can get a full suede headliner in the Ram 1500 Tungsten Edition.

Over at Ford, there’s two trim levels left to go after reaching the leather-and-wood-festooned interior of the F-150 King Ranch. All of this luxury, plus buyers’ willingness to fork over the necessary dough, means ever-higher average transaction prices. Currently, average transaction prices for Ram 1500 and Chevrolet Silverado sit in the low $40K range, while F-150’s ATP recently soared past $45K.

Okay, so what, you ask? If buyers want to mortgage their kid’s future for a luxobarge built on cheaper bones, why shouldn’t automakers step up to skim off all that gravy? The high end isn’t the concern here, at least not in my mind. It’s not just top-flight trims inflating the ATP.

On what should be the low end of the market, Honda’s unibody Ridgeline just canned its lowest all-wheel-drive trim, meaning a nearly $3,700 price jump for the cheapest AWD Ridgeline. That’s a $36,010 price tag.

Want four-wheel drive in a Chevrolet Colorado? Your MSRP, minus delivery, just jumped from $20,995 to $28,995. In its rival midsize, the Toyota Tacoma, four-wheel-drive powers the price from $24,320 in the Tacoma SR to the $29,480 in the Tacoma SR5 4×4. Compare that to the pre-delivery prices of the lowest-trimmed 4×4 variants of the Ford F-150 ($32,000-plus), Silverado ($31,725), and Ram 1500 ($31,095). The cheapest Toyota Tundra and Nissan Titan 4x4s both sit in the high $32K range.

These are all base engine offerings, with the least amount of interior room.

The market seems fine with the price of pickups — automakers certainly aren’t complaining, but are you? How about it, Best & Brightest — is getting into a truck with the basic features you want becoming too steep of a climb? Is the price floor rising too high? Or have incentives and promotions made the pill easier to swallow?

[Image: Ford Motor Company]

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236 Comments on “QOTD: Are Pickups Trucks Too Expensive?...”


  • avatar
    SCE to AUX

    The market is saying that the price of trucks is just fine.

    I don’t need a truck; my truck is a paid-for minivan, with an 8-ft covered bed.

    We could ask the same question about cell phones, cable service, and other stuff people mortgage their future to acquire.

    • 0 avatar
      KevinB

      Yup! Econ 101 spells it all out for all to see.

    • 0 avatar
      Corey Lewis

      “As long as the monthly payment is XXX, no problem. I still have xx left each month.”

      -Phone
      -Cable
      -Car
      -Truck
      -Student debt

      Welcome to millennials.

    • 0 avatar
      Big Al from Oz

      SCE to AUX,
      Ah, but what if the prices could be lower?

      Don’t you think it is odd that ALL manufacturers are making really good profits on the one vehicle type in the US?

      What would cause this?

      A lack of competition.

      • 0 avatar
        SCE to AUX

        @Big Al:

        High profits on trucks are not due to a lack of competition; they are due to high demand.

        Charges of collusive behavior have regularly been leveled at the oil companies, and none of them have stuck.

        You’re suggesting that the Big Three artificially keep prices high, but competition among themselves and with other products (mid-size trucks, used trucks, and SUVs) is sufficient to keep prices down. There is plenty of competition vs buying a brand new full-size truck.

        Even GM, which is awash in trucks due to overbuilding, is now giving huge discounts on their trucks, yet they’re still making good money on them.

        • 0 avatar
          stingray65

          Big profits are also built on huge economies of scale and learning curve effects. Ford probably makes about 1 million vehicles annually on the F-150 platform, which is a lot more units than any other platform they have. I’ve seen some estimates that about 75% of Ford’s global profits are from the F-150 – so if the pickup fad ever dies Ford, GM, and FCA are in big trouble.

        • 0 avatar
          Big Al from Oz

          SCE to AUX,
          I would agree normally. Except ……. there’s been many years (decades) to resolve this supply deficiency.

          And, pickups have reduced as the percentage of vehicles sold in the US.

          Then……if the US allowed imports your theory is shot to hell.

        • 0 avatar
          stuki

          The combination of CAFE, “standards” set after consultation with existing vendors, the “Chicken Tax” and other idiocies of similar natures, combine to pretty severely restrict the ability of specialist upstarts to chip away at the edges of the Pickup truck money making machine. Benefiting, at least in the short term, existing players with political sway, while hurting prospective consumers. All regulations do that. And inevitably so, as that is their explicit purpose.

    • 0 avatar
      jkross22

      Cell phones don’t fit with the rest. You can spend $80-$800 on a new smart phone. Just because many people reflexively spend at the top end doesn’t mean they have no choice. They’ve just been duped.

      Many people are wising up to this – that’s why One Plus, ZTE and handful of others are doing well.

      • 0 avatar
        Sigivald

        “Just because many people reflexively spend at the top end doesn’t mean they have no choice. They’ve just been duped.”

        People who think more expensive phones have no value-add over cheap ones are usually, well, wrong, at least for the people they’re claiming it about, even if they personally Just Can’t See Any Difference.

        (Because it turns out UX matters, a lot. Not that people who care about it are dupes.)

        • 0 avatar
          JimZ

          “People who think more expensive phones have no value-add over cheap ones are usually, well, wrong, at least for the people they’re claiming it about, even if they personally Just Can’t See Any Difference.”

          in the case of Apple, I think the bitterness is because of how they utterly *flay* you for a few bucks worth of flash memory.

        • 0 avatar
          Erikstrawn

          All the “value-add” I’ve seen on expensive phones has to do with how fast you can get your entertainment. If you use your phone as a phone and an occasional GPS/Camera/etc., then there is no value-add over a cheap phone. I think there are far fewer people who do real day-to-day professional business on a phone than we want to pretend.

    • 0 avatar
      Vulpine

      My truck is a 20-year-old, practically brand-new, paid-for pickup truck that costs less than $13K out the door when purchased by the original owner and was, at the time, the second of three trim levels lacking only power windows and door locks. Nice thing is that it’s capable of carrying anything I want in its open bed and is reasonably fun to drive.

      • 0 avatar
        Lou_BC

        If one runs my 1990 F250 base model 4×4 through an inflation calculator it costs the same as a current base model F250.
        The difference in features?
        5.0 versus 6.2
        5 spd manual versus 6 speed auto
        locking hubs versus auto
        16 inch 215’s versus 245-275’s 17, 18, 20 inch wheels
        Brakes, payload, tow ratings, safety features, comfort et al *vastly superior* now!

        I had to buy a stereo, bigger tires, add a box liner, add running boards, add a seat cover,and add a trailer harness.

        Your 20 year old 13,000 dollar Ranger through an inflation calculator means $19,840.59 in 2017 dollars.

        A Colorado base model fleet spec extended cab is $20,995.

        • 0 avatar
          Vulpine

          Note what you just said, Lou: “Your 20 year old 13,000 dollar Ranger through an inflation calculator means $19,840.59 in 2017 dollars. A Colorado base model fleet spec extended cab is $20,995.” At $20K it wouldn’t be a “base model, fleet spec extended cab; it would be an XLT non-fleet model, though admittedly it would be 2WD. It’s also about 20% SMALLER than that Colorado which when equipped similarly is currently priced at $24,995 or about $5K more than my Ranger when adjusted. (You forgot to account for location as pricing tends to be different in different regions.) I don’t feel like driving 800 miles just to buy a truck I don’t want for the same price (adjusted) as my step-father paid for his (and like because it’s smaller, though lacks some features I want, like that extended cab you mentioned.) The point is that I CAN’T buy what I want and the closest available equivalents are all overpriced by roughly $5K-$7K. And what I want is three feet (one meter) shorter with AWD and an extended cab. Lose 18″ off the nose. Lose 18″ off the tail, put 18” behind the front seat and I’m satisfied.

          The problem is, both GM and FCA make a model I would buy. Hyundai prototyped a model I would buy. But none of them wants to be the first mover to actually bring them in.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            Vulpine – I owned a base model 1984 Ranger (bought new) and an XLT 1992 extended cab (used from a friend).
            The ’84 was as spartan as it got. The 1992 XLT wasn’t much different than a current base model Colorado. I’ve sat in several base model Colorado’s.
            Car companies have added content over the years, the new vehicles also have multiple safety features that the old stuff did not have. The new trucks are also vastly superior in reliability.
            Even if a new comparable small truck costs a bit more, there is much more there worth buying.

            The point is that new stuff isn’t appreciable more expensive when you compare feature for feature.

          • 0 avatar
            Vulpine

            Maybe not much more expensive dollar wise, but for me size is a factor too and I am unwilling to pay $30K for something so much bigger than what I’m currently driving JUST to add some sort of AWD to it (which is something I need where I now live compared to where and when my current truck was originally purchased.)

            I’ve owned three pickup trucks in my life–all three 2WD. One compact, one full-sized and one “mid-sized.”

            The compact worked well in the Denver, CO area because I could add a bed-load of snow to it when the roads were bad and maintained good traction.
            The full-sized carried the load I needed WHEN I needed it, but was too wide for many of the roads on which I travel. Only narrowly avoided a crash when a full-sized pickup coming the other way on one such road ran me off the pavement into a shallow ditch while approaching a culvert. Only save what that I knew not to try and jerk the truck back onto the road and waited until I’d slowed down enough to let traffic pass and make a more controlled re-entry onto pavement.
            The mid-size has been garaged almost all its life and is extremely low-mileage for its age at just under 25K. Because it was a southern truck when purchased, there is no undercoating to protect the frame and body from rust and as such don’t drive it when there is a risk of salt water on the roads. At 20 years old there is NO body rust on the truck… anywhere.

    • 0 avatar
      DeadWeight

      MAGA MAGA MAGA!

      Hecho En Mexico: 2017 Auto Production In Mexico Surges Despite Trump Attacks

      “.  Per the Wall Street Journal:

      A move by auto makers to produce some popular sport-utility models in Mexican factories helped spur a 16% increase in production of light vehicles in Mexico during the first six months of the year compared with the same period in 2016. At the same time, tepid sales of sedans held down production in the U.S. and Canada, according to new data posted by WardsAuto.com.
       
      The data indicates one in five cars built in the North American Free Trade Agreement zone comes from Mexico, including hot new products from General Motors Co. and Fiat Chrysler Automobiles NV. That is up from the industry’s reliance on Mexico during the financial crisis, when the U.S. car business received billions of dollars in bailouts aimed at preserving jobs and keeping domestic players afloat.
       
      Separate U.S. trade data shows that the value of light-vehicle imports from Mexico to the U.S. ballooned 40% through May.”

      https://www.wsj.com/articles/more-u-s-cars-are-being-made-in-mexico-1500975000

      • 0 avatar
        Vulpine

        Now if only they’d bring those little trucks, the RAM 700 and Chevy Tornado in…

        • 0 avatar
          DeadWeight

          I genuinely despise both political parties in our corporate-controlled oligopoly, duopoly system of kabuki theater, but Trump is a new low; a literal fraud, con-man, snake oil salesman huckster, who just automatically, compulsively blurts out total and complete, utter bullsh!t, geared towards whatever audience he is speaking to, without a0the slightest regard for its truthfulness, merit, factual basis, or any inclination whatsoever as to a sincere intent to actually follow up and match his then present words with future action/deeds.

          He defines the saying “talk is cheap,” and is the consummate bullsh!t artist.

          We’re at a new low, never-before thought possible, and it’s as if the Mockumentary ‘Idiocracy’ has come true as a prophetic harbinger of our present situation.

          #TrumpSteaks

          • 0 avatar
            thelaine

            I genuinely despise both political parties in our corporate-controlled oligopoly, duopoly system of kabuki theater, but Obama is a new low; a literal fraud, con-man, snake oil salesman huckster, “community organizer” (wtf?),who just automatically, compulsively blurts out total and complete, utter bullsh!t, geared towards whatever audience he is speaking to, without the slightest regard for its truthfulness, merit, factual basis, or any inclination whatsoever as to a sincere intent to actually follow up and match his then present words with future action/deeds.

            He defines the saying “talk is cheap,” and is the consummate bullsh!t artist.

            We’re at a new low, never-before thought possible, and it’s as if the Mockumentary ‘Idiocracy’ has come true as a prophetic harbinger of our present situation.

            #Obamacare

          • 0 avatar
            joeaverage

            Ahh get off it. Obama is out. You got who you voted for. Now what about Trump. The GOP has Congress and the White House and they still can’t get anything done (fine by me, they might screw it up).

            Rather than continually going after Hillary and Obama after the fact – the spotlight is on the Donald now. Shouldn’t be working so hard to deflect the world’s attention.

          • 0 avatar
            thelaine

            Sorry Joe, not my guy. Never cared for him.

    • 0 avatar
      zacharylfoster

      figured i should chime in considering I’m a millennial… and honestly i hate trucks why because they seem like excessively large over priced barely used for their capability vehicles and this is coming from someone whos driven and gotten rid of a truck because of it… now i would consider owning one if it were more of a ute/camino or smaller truck such as the brat baja colorado but in the end they charge like 30+ grand for almost nothing… when i can get all the features of a 60-70K truck in an small or midsize SUV for 35-40K… even cheaper in a sedan with the extra benefits of better gas often cheaper to insure… why would anyone buy one as a daily driver… they are impractical in cost to own… overall expense and fuck the monthly shit who does that when buying a car… thats the easiest way for someone to pull the price up and extend the term so a dealer can fuck you over the life of your loan…. so yes i much prefer comfort over function when it comes to vehicles if and only if its going to be the only thing i drive…. in the end i know im far from the representative of my generation… i have a degree and no student debt and have bought a house and am looking at a new car now… (sorry for the rant and the lack of periods its like 3AM and couldnt sleep so effort on this was at an all time low)

    • 0 avatar
      jowint

      I’love to have anew truck but there’s nothing I want on the market.
      A full size 4wd long bed pickup with no bells and whistles.
      All I want is heat and a cup holder for my coffee .

  • avatar
    Big Al from Oz

    The profit levels on US pickups is consistent with the Chicken Tax.

    Go back to the early 80s when the Chicken Tax forced foreign producers to US shores, the prices rose, guess by how much …………….. 25%.

    So, in this day and age the chicken tax should be wound back for two reasons.

    1. Pickups are not mainly a work truck, but the family car. So, it should compete with cars.

    2. The removal of the chicken tax would allow for more competition, pushing prices down.

    • 0 avatar
      DenverMike

      @BAFO – Your chicken brain theories don’t hold water. Three words: Titan, Tundra, Ridgeline. Please explain how those come way short of 25% profits (nowhere near!)…

      Hint: Those pickups that do collect 25% profit have tremendous sales volume in-common.

      Prices didn’t rise in the ’80s due to the chicken tax. Rapid US inflation did that. How could a (little!) chicken tax do that? (The flood! of) imported pickups undercut the prices of domestic compact pickups anyway.

      So does *new* import competition “increase” the price of domestics or drop their prices? You talk from both sides of your beak…

      But also explain how adding a couple more new “choices”, mostly from China and India, would in any way affect the price of anything, much less fullsize pickups (or any pickups!)…

      I’ll wait here…

      • 0 avatar
        Big Al from Oz

        https://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/big-threes-shameful-secret

        • 0 avatar
          JimZ

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Motor_Manufacturing_de_Baja_California

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Motor_Manufacturing_Indiana

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Motor_Manufacturing_Texas

          http://www.nissan-canton.com/about-nissan/

          http://nissan-tennessee.com/about-nissan/

          Chicken tax is not a factor.

          • 0 avatar
            Big Al from Oz

            Jimii,
            My argument is NOT production within the US.

            My argument is forced US production has increased costs.

            It’s good for the US to produce pickups, but the way it is supported increases costs to the consumer.

            Like Trump and his 20% steel tax or his view that the US should be the only country allowed to manipulate currency.

          • 0 avatar
            Big Al from Oz

            https://fee.org/articles/chicken-tax-makes-trucks-expensive-and-unavailable/

            http://www.thestalwart.com/the_stalwart/2006/02/truck_protectio.html

            http://www.autonews.com/article/20150629/OEM/306299968/after-chicken-tax-a-flood-of-foreign-trucks?

            https://www.autoevolution.com/news/removing-the-chicken-tax-could-resurrect-foreign-made-pickup-trucks-in-the-us-97294.html

            http://www.washingtonpost.com/cars/did-chickens-cure-or-kill-us-pickup-trucks/2013/08/07/4cb016d0-ff83-11e2-8294-0ee5075b840d_story.html?utm_term=.9e708e9505ff

            The article below is interesting.

            https://www.wsj.com/amp/articles/chicken-tax-hangs-over-pickup-truck-makers-in-nafta-debate-1487154605

            I’m sick of cutting and pasting links.

          • 0 avatar
            JimZ

            “My argument is forced US production has increased costs.”

            horsecrap, otherwise we’d see the same thing with cars. Cars aren’t subject to the chicken tax yet everything coming from other regions is priced about the same as the domestically produced competition.

            Even without the chicken tax, imported trucks (competitively equipped) wouldn’t be much if at all cheaper thanks to having to meet regulations. And even if they didn’t have to, nobody inclined to buy a $50k F-150 is going to settle for a flimsy Mahindra piece of junk instead, no matter how cheap it is.

          • 0 avatar
            Vulpine

            @JimZ: “horsecrap, otherwise we’d see the same thing with cars. Cars aren’t subject to the chicken tax yet everything coming from other regions is priced about the same as the domestically produced competition.”

            Cause and effect, Jim. Ever think that American cars are priced where they are because of foreign imports instead? After all, they didn’t benefit from the Chicken Tax the way trucks did and the trucks are averaging about 30% more expensive than most of those cars.

          • 0 avatar
            Big Al from Oz

            Um, Jiminy,
            Cars and Chicken Tax? WTF fnck tangent are we entering?

            Cars are not apart of the Chicken tax. Read the links I provided and it will give you answers on why the chicken tax targeted trucks.

          • 0 avatar
            JimZ

            Can you read, Al? I specifically said ” Cars aren’t subject to the chicken tax.”

          • 0 avatar
            Big Al from Oz

            Jimbob,
            Are you daft? Really sunshine, what kind of tangent are you attempting to move this debate.

            CARS ARE NOT AFFECTED BY THE CHICKEN TAX.

            I don’t know why you even considered discussing cars and the chicken tax.

            Did you know that hair curlers are not affected by the chicken tax.

          • 0 avatar
            JimZ

            I’m not trying to “move” it, you’ve completely frozen it.

            Me: “Cars aren’t subject to the chicken tax.”
            You: “CARS ARE NOT AFFECTED BY THE CHICKEN TAX.”

            so, we agree. try reading the rest of what I wrote. I know you can, since we notionally speak the same language (though down your way you mostly chew on it and spit it out.)

        • 0 avatar
          Big Al from Oz

          JimZ,
          Japanese car imports through part of the 80s were limited to 1.5 million a year. This was to allow for the US manufacturers to not close shop. Is this better or worse.

          Really, read up on US auto industry protectionism.

          There was no tax.

          • 0 avatar
            DenverMike

            @BAFO – If you “read up on it”, you would know Japanese automakers seized the opportunity to double down on options (forced). They had to, with severely “capped” import quotas.

            It turned in to a real bonanza for Japanese automakers, since American consumers didn’t mind the hard loaded, “optioned up” Japanese import cars.

            And since there was zero *cap* or quotas on import pickups, they wisely flooded the US with cut-rate compact pickups from every Japanese automaker.

            Really it was a win/win all around. And luxury Japanese brands were invented because of the quotas.

            Meaning every car had to “count”! No sense in shipping base models unless they absolutely had to.

            Except import pickups could be had as “strippers”, all day long! They were a tremendous value that undercut the price of domestic compact pickups by a wide margin.

            Import compact pickups sold by the millions, and for good reason!!!

            And the Chicken tax was fully in effect the whole entire time…

            Go figure.

      • 0 avatar
        Vulpine

        “Your chicken brain theories don’t hold water.”

        That argument again, DM? How many times do we need to prove your ridiculous arguments wrong?

        The Chicken Tax CAUSED much of that inflation!

        • 0 avatar
          Sigivald

          … wait, what?

          A 25% tax on *truck imports* caused much of US inflation in the 70s and 80s? Or is this “inflation” a more specific thing than I can glean from context?

          (Despite the tax being put into place in 1962?)

          I think we have much more important things to blame for stagflation and the malaise era than the Chicken Tax.

          (The “chassis cab loophole” was closed in 1980, fair.

          But the BEA [https://www.bea.gov/national/xls/gap_hist.xlsx] numbers show domestic truck sales dropping in 1980-1, not increasing, while equally we see no discontinuity in the sales of imported trucks in the same timeframe (domestics outselling imports at 4-5:1 or so).

          If the tax change did anything in the 80s, it’s not at all obvious, honestly.)

          • 0 avatar
            Vulpine

            Take another look, Sigivald. The 1980 change spurred the increase in truck prices in particular and by ’85 it was becoming obvious that the imports were suffering because GM, Ford and Dodge all built their own, slightly larger trucks during that period to get away from re-badging the imports. Mazda managed to hang on a little longer as they teamed with Ford and badge-engineered the Ranger to a Mazda but neither Dodge/Mitsubishi nor Chevy/Isuzu followed suit. Toyota worked hard and fast to get a truck plant built in California, where it wouldn’t be counted, quite, as an import. That plant moved to Mexico and later to the Texas operation where it could share a more modern assembly line next to the Tundras while the Mexico plant switched to a different vehicle. (I’m working off of memory here and I’m sure I have some details wrong, but the general point is that Toyota was the first to work an actual truck assembly line on American soil to avoid the closure of that loophole.) Nissan nearly disappeared for a while, though I think they ran a parallel assembly line later with one of their auto shops. I honestly thought they were gone until I heard about the Frontier showing up but I didn’t pay enough attention to the when as I was too busy surviving to pay that much attention to the auto market as a whole.

    • 0 avatar
      DenverMike

      @BAFO – The article focuses on Ford and GM fullsize pickups and how they’re “protected”, but it doesn’t state what they’re protected from! Is it Mahindras? Futons? Ssangyong?

      Their biggest competition, if you can call them that, are already selling in the US.

      Then it states thanks to the Chicken tax, they’re “the only game in town”? What??

      Now aren’t midsize pickups included in “the game”? If so, aren’t they just as protected? More so actually, since there’s no global fullsize pickups??

      He’s stating all trucks should start at $20,000 but the foreign ones can’t due to the $5,000 chicken tax penalty, hence a $5,000 “cushion” for domestics, including Toyota, Nissan and Honda I guess.

      But F-150s, Silverados and Rams already start at $20,000 after rebates (Tundras and Titans can’t say the same despite similar chicken tax protection). So who would buy a Futon, Ssangyong, etc, over an F-150 at the same price???????

      The article has many holes, and the author isn’t here to grill. Of course there wouldn’t be article if it was in touch with reality.

      You get these Harvard grads that are good at looking up stats and laws, but that’s all that computes. They’re probably never even rode in a damn pickup!

      The real winners in the chicken tax game are foreign brands, already selling in the US, every brand from Toyota to Kia, whether they’re manufacturing here or not. The 4Runner for example is made in Japan AND has more to fear!!!!!

      I hope you can come up with better than this…

  • avatar
    NMGOM

    QOTD: Are Pickups Trucks Too Expensive?

    ANS: No.

    ====================

    • 0 avatar
      Lou_BC

      @NMGOM – agreed.

      No on is forcing anyone to go out and buy a 80k 1/2 ton or a 100k HD.

      If one uses any online inflation calculator, current truck prices are par with the stuff sold decades ago.

      • 0 avatar
        Corey Lewis

        “If one uses any online inflation calculator, current truck prices are par with the stuff sold decades ago.”

        And they’re more powerful, better made, and actually have rust resistance.

        • 0 avatar
          Lou_BC

          Corey Lewis – the human race will fare so much better once we start searching for the truth as opposed to the validation of our beliefs.

        • 0 avatar
          Sigivald

          “Unless you buy a RAM.”

          (Did they ever fix that?)

        • 0 avatar
          Vulpine

          “And they’re more powerful, better made, and actually have rust resistance.”

          Really? Couldn’t tell that by me. Trucks around here start showing rust in less than 10 years and I honestly refuse to drive mine on wet and/or snowy roads during the winter just to minimize exposure. No rust yet on a 20-year-old Ranger.

          • 0 avatar

            I was thinking more like ’90s trucks, I know what’s for sale now is better than that with regard to rust resistance. Some trucks are worse up to more recently, and RAM comes to mind for that example.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            @Corey Lewis – I’d have to agree. Ram stuff is more prone to rust than Ford or Gm stuff. Toyota T100’s are nasty for rust.

          • 0 avatar

            A pity, as I really like the Land Cruiser Lite styling on the T100. That was also as close as we ever got to a Hilux. I think.

    • 0 avatar

      @NMGOM

      Correct.

      Trucks are more about status than utility, so the sky’s the limit. Their is no upper limit on the price of status.

      • 0 avatar
        thelaine

        If a pickup truck confers status in the US, I guess there is still hope for the nation.

        People like them like them for the versatility, including off-road and recreational capability. Business suit or overalls during the week; skis, kayak, rifle or fishing pole on the weekend. Many people use them for work during the week and fun on the weekend. For a lot of rural people, who are not well-represented on this site, they are an irreplaceable.

        Pickup trucks are fantastic. And, at least from the Big 3, you can still order them just how you like them, including the engine you prefer. Status? Not so much, but to each his own.

  • avatar
    Corey Lewis

    The good thing about that $29K on the Tacoma is you get a full refund when you sell it later.

  • avatar
    dividebytube

    For a long time I considered myself a “truck guy” but really I only drove the small ones. A Nisan 720, a Nissan hardbody, and a Toyota T100.

    The T100 was the only 4X4 I had ever owned but I loved it for its ruggedness and simple interior. Sure it was underpowered and liked to rust but it hauled junk, furniture, moved me to a new house, and got through the worst that Michigan had to throw at it.

    I would buy one again if I could.

    I have no interest in the large trucks of today, especially with their high prices. I suppose leasing is the way to go since there are deals to be had.

    • 0 avatar
      Sigivald

      The T100 has a 121″ wheelbase, 209″ long, 75″ wide, 72″ tall (4×4), all to nearest inch.

      Today’s F150 (regular cab, 8″ bed) has a 141″ wheelbase, 227″ long, 79″ wide, 76″ tall.

      The only really significant change is that it’s a foot and a half longer, presumably all in the hood.

      (And if you got the 6.5″ bed F150 its the SAME length as the T100!)

      It LOOKS far bigger than it is because the proportions and styling have changed, though.

      • 0 avatar
        Vulpine

        … and don’t forget those extra two doors, that add ANOTHER 30″ to the length, minimum. At least the extended cab with the short bed is slightly more reasonable… but still bigger than I want. But only if those back doors are ‘suicide doors’ and not half-sized conventional hinged doors.

  • avatar
    Kyree S. Williams

    Evidently not. People are purchasing them left and right.

    • 0 avatar
      Big Al from Oz

      Kyree,
      No.

      Pickups are not as popular as they were 15-20 years ago.

      • 0 avatar
        Corey Lewis

        He didn’t say they were the end all be all of sales. He said left and right purchases, which is true.

        You do not *have* to disagree with everyone.

      • 0 avatar
        deanst

        I’d be interested in seeing the stats behind that assertion.

        • 0 avatar
          Big Al from Oz

          deanst,
          Maybe TTAC can produce the data for this, say pickup trucks as a percentage of the vehicle fleet or market over the past 30 years.

          I did read this several years ago. The difference in numbers was much larger than I thought.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            30 years ago?
            That would be 1987.
            Pickups were mostly regular cabs. CrewCab trucks were all HD’s. The first extended cab trucks showed up in the 80’s.
            The game changer for 1/2 ton pickups as a mass appeal vehicle was with the addition of doors. That started with extended cab 1/2 tons and then the SuperCrew in 2000 (a 2001 model).

            Crewcab 1/2 ton trucks are the dominant seller and that is what has driven pickup sales.

          • 0 avatar
            Big Al from Oz

            Lou,
            That’s one year ….. with no data.

            We now need the other 29.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            Big Al from Oz – you said 30 years ago so try to extrapolate. Extended cab 1/2 ton pickups started the truck boom. The crew cab variant was the next step in that boom.
            Regular cab trucks have always been a self limiting market.

            At that time regular cab trucks proportionally would have been the bulk of the market since there wasn’t much else to chose from.
            A regular cab truck since it can only seat 2-3 comfortably by its very nature isn’t a great family/multipurpose use vehicle.

            If you want to prove me wrong then do your own research.

          • 0 avatar
            Big Al from Oz

            Past 30 years……………………hmmm??

          • 0 avatar
            Scoutdude

            No Lou the first extended cabs started showing up in the 70’s. First was Dodge’s Club Cab in 1973. Ford followed suit late in 1974. GM of course dragged its feet until they did a full redesign of their trucks.

            The Ford SuperCrew was what really gave trucks a shot in the arm in regards to sales. It it what made it the perfect substitute for the large sedan. However it was far from the first 4dr 1/2 ton pickup as International bucked that trend and offered the Travelette in 1/2 ton guise on and off since its inception. In fact the first really foreshadowed the current body style leader down to a 5.5′ bed. Of course that wasn’t a 4dr as the early Travelettes were 3dr but it was the first by far. They even offered the 1/2 ton Travelette near the end of the run in 1973 and I’m sure you could have special ordered one in 74 or 75. Then of course was the Wagonmaster a single bodied crew cab pickup with a short short bed integrated as GM would copy later with their Avalanche.

            Ford also offered a short short bed crew cab in the 70’s as a special order but only on the F250. For many years there was one just around the corner from a friend’s house. The owner of the Ford dealer my brother used to work for had one too that he had bought new and kept very nice, and definitely didn’t use it for hauling gravel and the like.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            @Scoutdude – thanks for the refresher. Much appreciated.
            I rarely ever saw 70’s era extended cab trucks. Dodge was never a popular brand in my region. The local dealer had a habit of going broke.

            I was confining my comments to the 1/2 ton ranks. I know that International was one of the first.

            The point I was trying to make to bafoon from Oz was the fact that the addition of doors and seats caused the pickup sales boom.

          • 0 avatar
            Big Al from Oz

            Lou, wow man! Have been driving to many kilometres lately? Brain fade?

            Resorting to name calling.

            You are completely wrong DenverMike (gotcha!) I’m not discussing the hows and whens of crew cabs, 4x4s, King Cabs, or whatever pickup styles.

            I’m STATING (read very slowly now DiM) Pickup trucks as a percentage of vehicles sold in the US NOW (2017) is less than the percentage of the vehicle market over the past 30 years (read PAST or is you brain fading?)

            So, if one produces a table (sort of like a spreadsheet or for you really old braindead fncks a ledger) with years down one column and percentage of pickups in relation to the US vehicle market down a column adjacent (alongside) to the year column we can actually see if I’m correct.

            Your story on International Harvester or the original Power Wagon from the 40s or whatever nonsense you are discussing has little to do with my comment.

            Drive much less. Actually reverse everywhere and try to glean back the IQ you are losing rapidly.

      • 0 avatar
        Dave M.

        Yes they are. Check market share.

        I’d love a King Ranch. But damn $50k? I balk at breaking the $30k barrier.

        I will say you get a lot of kit for that money….each of my new cars have been some sort of “upgrade” equipment-wise from the previous…
        1. Cruise control
        2. Air conditioning
        3. PW/PL
        4. Automatic
        5. Airbags & heated seats
        6. AWD
        7. Nav & XM

        One thing that’s been consistent – sunroof! Life is too short to not have one….

    • 0 avatar
      joeaverage

      People are buying them left and right helped along with huge financing packages.

  • avatar
    JustPassinThru

    No, they are not too expensive. The price is whatever demand for them will sustain.

    ECON 101, as noted.

    Now. Are customers PAYING too much for these trucks? Almost certainly. “Why” is not easy to explain – it’s caught up in human foibles regarding fashion, image, social trends.

    Should there be a subgenre of pickup, the work truck, for people who actually do work them? There should be; but the incredibly-complex labrynth of government regulations and diktats, preclude experimentation and innovation in the market. Stick with what is proven to sell; risks are not always rewarded, but the costs of meeting regulatory demands are guaranteed.

    • 0 avatar
      Big Al from Oz

      JustPassinThru,
      ECON 101 —- Protectionism reduces competition = higher prices

      • 0 avatar
        DenverMike

        @BAFO – Maybe in theory, but there would have to be a complete flood of cut-rate import fullsize pickups including Heavy dutys, luxury and dually pickups from China and others, to make even the smallest dent in prices. So no.

        • 0 avatar
          Vulpine

          “Oh, the tangled web we weave….”

          Yes, cheaper, smaller trucks WOULD force the price down on the full sized models and even the current mid-sized models. Why? Because the perceived value of huge incentives would vanish when competing with similarly-capable, lower-priced models. Those ¾ ton and 1-ton models might remain a status symbol, but their customer base would fall through the floor as the typical buyer would be wanting a working truck and not a luxo-barge. I would expect no less than a 25% drop in full-sized sales if imports didn’t have to pay the Chicken Tax.

        • 0 avatar
          Big Al from Oz

          I had a conversation with Adam the other day regarding pickup prices of Australia vs the US.

          Yes we pay marginally more for a similar vehicle, but the price included 15% tax and I forgot to add Stamp Duty!

          I do believe it would be of benefit to the US consumer to have a fair and competitive market.

          You see Denver the money saved in the purchase in a pickup will allow for additional money to be spent in other areas of the economy in the US, increasing job opportunities.

          Protectionism is a job killer, like Trump’s proposed 20% Steel tax.

          • 0 avatar
            NMGOM

            Big Al – – –

            BA: “I forgot to add Stamp Duty!”

            Didn’t the wayward western colonies rebel because of something similar in 1776, called the Stamp Act?

            Are you telling us that the Crown still hasn’t learned its lesson?
            Gad, these Brits are slow on the uptake… (^_^)…

            ====================

          • 0 avatar
            DenverMike

            @BAFO – $5,000 is ridiculous, but that savings would no doubt get consumers into the next trim level. Lariat to King Ranch, etc.

            Except there’s no global pickups that would lower the price of fullsize pickups 10 cents.

          • 0 avatar
            Big Al from Oz

            NMGOM,
            Yes, Stamp Duty. It varies from state to state.

            Most taxation in Australia is levied by the Federal Government. States have little scope to tax.

            This can be good or bad. States each year go to the table to justify their share of the tax. This reduces disparity between the states.

            Stamp Duty is only on vehicles and property and is a few percent (roughly).

            Australia really needs to remove stamp duty, but like the US most in Australia realise change is needed, but it seems its always another persons problem.

            Then someone like Trump will come along with simplistic fixes and the dumb fncks will vote for that person.

    • 0 avatar
      JimZ

      Anyone who starts (or emphasizes) a statement by declaring “(subject) 101!” and is not an actual teacher or expert in said subject really needs to stop talking.

      • 0 avatar
        JustPassinThru

        “Anyone who starts (or emphasizes) a statement by declaring “(subject) 101!” and is not an actual teacher or expert in said subject really needs to stop talking.”

        Anyone who cannot understand that that was simply verbal shorthand for reiterating basic economic rules, has a reading-comprehension problem and needs to limit himself to lurking.

        And anyone who jumps, not on the first user of this phrase, but the second, is apparently a stalking troll and needs a ban. Or a home visit, visitor equipped with a baseball bat.

        Have a nice life…

        • 0 avatar
          Vulpine

          You do realize that almost anybody who has attended college or business school probably had to go to a (subject) 101 class, right?

          • 0 avatar
            JustPassinThru

            “You do realize that almost anybody who has attended college or business school probably had to go to a (subject) 101 class, right?”

            You do realize that the POINT of saying that, is that it’s so basic, anyone with the least bit of knowledge of the subject, knows that. Right?

            IOW, it’s BASIC economics. Not obscure, elaborate incomprehensible doctoral-dissertation economics, but the stuff they cover in the first week of the survey course.

            When buyer and seller agree on a price, the good or service is not “too expensive.” Not “too cheap.” It’s what’s agreed on.

            When there is no agreement, there is no sale. At least, not without government compunction.

          • 0 avatar
            Big Al from Oz

            We call them core subjects.

    • 0 avatar
      bikegoesbaa

      Given that I can buy a boosted aluminum-bodied F-150 that can communicate with satellites in space I’m not sure I buy your claims about “preclude experimentation and innovation”.

      • 0 avatar
        JustPassinThru

        Those are to meet government diktats. There wasn’t a crying need for aluminum trucks and there will be even less of a demand once people see WHY it was never done before. After a few accidents that total those trucks; after a few fractured beds from loads dropped in them.

        Innovations to sell more trucks, like a stripped-down, industrial unit

        http://bright-cars.com/uploads/studebaker/studebaker-prototype-truck/studebaker-prototype-truck-03.jpg

        for work-truck buyers, involve fights with regulators; requests for variances on safety and CAFE laws; and are generally not worth the hassle for relatively-small production runs.

        Because the customer no longer drives the market. Regulators do.

  • avatar
    427Cobra

    I bought almost exactly a year ago. I had a 2000 Super Duty V10 supercab 4×4. I bought it in rough condition with a salvage title & 73k miles on the odometer for $4200. I cleaned it up, performed some routine & deferred maintenance, and it served me well. After 4 years in my stable, I sold it for $5k.

    Once I started shopping, used truck prices had my jaw on the floor. To get what I wanted in the condition/mileage range I wanted, it seemed not much of a stretch to go new.

    Shopping for a new truck definitely induced some sticker shock. I found a leftover ’15 Super Duty crew cab, but they just weren’t willing to deal on it. I bought a ’16 Ram 2500 crew cab 4×4 6.4L Hemi. I didn’t NEED a 3/4 ton… but I was able to get a better deal on the 3/4 ton than the 1/2 tons. Most of the 1/2 tons were overly laden with options I didn’t want (heated steering wheels & such) and sticker prices north of $50k. Yes… rebates & incentives contributed to the decision. My truck stickered for $45.8k. I bought it for $35.2k… and got financing below 2%. No, it’s not loaded… nor did I want it to be, as it’s primary function would be camping/towing/hauling the dog around. I got the base (Tradesman) trim level, nicely optioned up to near-SLT level. Unloaded, the ride’s a bit bouncy… but so was my Super Duty… solid axles, baby. I’ve been extremely happy with my decision. It’s comfortable… and amazingly quiet on the road. I averaged 18 mpg on a recent camping trip… not bad for a 7000+ pound brick with a bed full of camping equipment driving through the desert on a 110 degree day.

    • 0 avatar
      thelaine

      You made a good deal, 427. I believe there are good deals still to be had on full-sized pickups, if you go basic. Ram in particular has always had affordable work trucks. I assume that is still the case.

      I think it is a lot tougher to get cheap smaller pickups. I would love to see more competition in this segment and look forward to the new Ranger and Nissan. It would be great to have even more players in this segment, since smaller pickups are more common around the world. The more the better. Import penalties, CAFE and innumerable additional regulations certainly must play a role in limiting competition and raising prices, as they always do. It seems the big 3 are pretty happy with the way things are, but consumers could do better.

    • 0 avatar
      Sigivald

      18MPG out of the 6.4 Hemi?

      Which rear end ratio does that thing have…?

    • 0 avatar
      87 Morgan

      I averaged 18 mpg on a recent camping trip… not bad for a 7000+ pound brick with a bed full of camping equipment driving through the desert on a 110 degree day…

      God Bless America.
      Were the old trucks cool? yup.
      But you have to love the fact that you can get a big block gas motor that pulls like a freight train AND gets good MPG on the highway with zero of the long term ownership headaches a diesel will provide, for 35k.

  • avatar
    dwford

    With incentives commonly in the $8-10k range on the full size trucks, prices aren’t as bad as the sticker prices suggest.

    • 0 avatar
      johnny_5.0

      This. I just looked at one local Ford dealer. Cheapest SuperCrew 4×4 with the turbo 2.7 is $32,545. They have 120 2017 F-150 4x4s. The cheapest V6 Accord stickers for ~$31k. It looks like a V6 Camry is $34.4k before discounts. The people that have migrated from full size sedans to full size trucks don’t seem to be making a bad choice.

      • 0 avatar
        Sigivald

        To be fair, though, an XL spec F150 is not *nearly* as nice an environment as a V6 Camcord.

        You have to spend rather more to get a “not a work truck” interior, no?

        • 0 avatar
          Lou_BC

          @Sigivald – base model for a Ford SuperCrew is an XLT. I’d rather spend a day in that cab then that of any base model Toyota car or minivan.

          • 0 avatar
            Sigivald

            Sure!

            But we were talking the *V6* Camcords, which are pointedly not the base models.

            (Also I was just – before that post – looking at fleet trucks, and those will happily give you an XL SuperCrew, and be saaad inside.)

  • avatar
    Scoutdude

    The thing is that the base prices aren’t rising as quick as the ATP which means that yes the mfgs are doing it right. Keeping the base model trucks relatively affordable but also offering ever increasing levels of trim and consumers line up to buy them.

    Me I’ll take a rubber floor and vinyl seats but I certainly wish my current F250 at least had power locks. With the folding center console/armrest/seat down it is a real pain to unlock the passenger door. But other than that and A/C I like them base and used since I don’t use them as a daily driver/commuter/status symbol/manhood extension.

  • avatar
    bumpy ii

    “…our only gripe would be the stickiness of the vinyl bench seat on hot, un-air conditioned days.”

    Naah, just use that burlap seat cover that every domestic truck built from 1950-85 or so had at some point in its life.

  • avatar
    thegamper

    Its always truck month somewhere! Obviously if people are paying, its not overly expensive. The question of who should be paying $45 large for a new F150 is another question, although you could apply that question to any new car purchase/purchaser.

    As much as I despise all the urban wannabe cowboys driving pristine spotless pickup trucks which will only ever haul fat a$$es, a bed full of air and never see a trailer hitched to it, I have to hand it to the automakers for fantastic marketing. Only brilliant marketing could get so many people to pay too much for something they don’t need AND make them feel good about it. I mean…cuz how can you be a man if you don’t drive a truck?

    So even though my daily commute has become my daily game of “Farm Equipment Dodge’em” I cannot complain too much. Were it not for pickup trucks, we may very well not have a domestic auto industry.

    I guess let the suckers pay. Ill drive my sedan and rent a pickup from Uhaul for $20 when I need one.

    • 0 avatar
      Vulpine

      “Truck Month” means an automatic $10K off the sticker. Doesn’t that mean anything to you? Obviously they are $10K overpriced if they can pull $10K off without complaint. The simple fact is that the buyers think they’re getting a steal when they’re really paying at least $5K more than it’s worth.

    • 0 avatar
      brettc

      That’s my logic too. My Jetta/Golf wagon does a fine job as a “cruck”. I can move furniture with it, transport 8′ to 10′ pieces of lumber in it, and haul brush/leaves to the dump with it. This past weekend, I tied a 4×8 sheet of lattice to the roof rails and brought it home along with a couple of 2 x 4 x 10s.

      If I really need a pickup’s capabilities, I can choose a rental from Lowe’s, HD, or U-Haul depending on how long I need it. But I rarely need a pickup since I bought a car that does a lot of what I need. If I really wanted a truck, I’d buy a used Ranger for cheap.

      I can’t comprehend people buying full size trucks with huge engines that haul air most of the time. To each their own, but I just don’t get it.

      • 0 avatar
        gtemnykh

        “and haul brush/leaves to the dump with it. ”

        Bagged or what? Sounds like a good way to ruin an interior.

        I already had a 4Runner with a rubber mat in the back and an opening rear window that helped with lumber hauling (not to mention a factory roof rack), but I must say my little Ranger has really opened my eyes to the utility of a truck bed. Many tons of gravel, mulch, pavers, top soil, bulky rental equipment (masonry saw, ground compacter) all handled in stride. Bought for $1700, I could easily sell it for the same right now, but I decided to tinker with it to fix up with some maintenance/repairs and will likely sell it come tax season for a cool $2500-$2700. When I have a day’s worth of patio or landscaping work ahead of me, having to drive down and rent a truck just adds another complication.

        Having said that, I couldn’t handle just having that Ranger and no other vehicle, it’s just not comfortable enough, can’t fit my dogs or luggage in case of rain (mine’s a reg-cab), traction sucks in inclement weather. As a summer commuter and weekend hauler, I’m finding having a beater truck around is fantastic. It’s actually fun to zip around town in with the 5spd.

    • 0 avatar
      Big Al from Oz

      thegamper,
      Not only buy the pickups, but believe every truck tows 10 000lb+ and always has a minimum of 5 on board, with 1500lbs of car parts and/or an 8×4 sheet of ply in a 6.5′ bed.

  • avatar
    JimZ

    I like how the author says trucks should be like an old Ford with the 300 six and three on the tree, then complains about how expensive the Limited trim levels are and how much four wheel drive costs.

    1) no one is forcing anyone at gun point to buy a Laramie, Platinum, King Ranch or whatever.

    2) when did 4 wheel drive become mandatory? ‘cos it wasn’t that common back when the “ideal truck” was a six cylinder with a 3-speed manual.

    The modern version of your “ideal” truck is an F-150 XL, regular cab, long bed, 2WD with the 3.3 NA V6, and no power options.

    There is

    • 0 avatar
      matador

      This. A Ford with a 300 was most often a fleet special, where A/C was one of the only options checked, if you were lucky.

      That said, I own an F-150 with the 300 I6. I’ve never understood the love of that engine- it drinks gasoline like a pig, has no power output to speak of (You think the Chevy 305 is a dog, try one of these), and the torque curve was worsened when they put EFI on the engine. I cannot think of any reason to purchase a 300 I6 over a Small Block Chevrolet engine, Small Block Ford, or a Small Block Dodge. Seriously, a 1992 Dakota with a 3.9L V6 will put out more HP and better fuel mileage than the Ford 300.

      • 0 avatar
        Sigivald

        I’ve driven an old Econoline with the I6 and I also never saw anything special about it.

        I’d rather have the Modular 5.4, and *that’s saying something*, since at least the old I6 was durable.

      • 0 avatar
        JimZ

        the 300 six is practically the Slant Six and AMC 258’s equal in terms of longevity. All you need to do is occasionally replace the lifter galley gasket. and keep up on the oil level after about 150,000 miles as cylinder taper sets in and blow-by increases.

        • 0 avatar
          Big Al from Oz

          Ah, the good old days, 12mpg inline 6. 0-60 in 20sec.

          How stirring.

          Nowadays a 2.5 inline 4 pickup 25mpg and 0-60 in 9sec. Handles better, is safer and has more bling and a far better sound system.

      • 0 avatar
        SaulTigh

        They are primarily known for their longevity and ability to take abuse. Something about having a timing gear rather than a chain or belt.

  • avatar
    jack4x

    When my choice at a $50k real transaction price is a leather lined, technology laden, 4×4 V8 powered, 2000+ lb payload, 10,000+ lb towing capable machine, or a vinyl seat, low option, 4 cylinder German “luxury” car/CUV, I’d argue that modern pickups are one of the best values available.

    • 0 avatar
      DenverMike

      Bingo! And in ten years you can sell the loaded luxury pickup for up to $20,000, depending. The $50,000 German CUV? A max of $4,000? Next stop, BHPH??

      • 0 avatar
        jack4x

        Yes, I forgot to add that the pickup (especially if V8 powered) will have a quarter million mile powertrain, relatively simple and inexpensive maintenance costs compared to the sale price*, and above average resale, none of which could be said for the aforementioned CUV.

        *No longer applicable to diesel trucks, although the resale is still extremely strong. That may not remain true as the emissions equipped trucks get older.

    • 0 avatar
      thegamper

      That’s maybe the best argument I have seen in favor of pickup trucks, if you subscribe to the pay by the pound mentality.

      However, if you might only ever need 300lbs of payload, own absolutely nothing to tow, aren’t allergic to non-leather seating, realize that a well tuned smaller displacement engine can deliver the same or better performance than a much larger NA engine more efficiently, prefer not to carry around 2000lbs of dead weight 360 days per year, will never travel off road, want to stop quicker, turn sharper, go faster, hold a corner, take up a single parking space, prefer to drive attractive vehicles that don’t resemble bricks and still get excellent resale, Id say in the $40-$50 price range there are a lot of options.

      If you want leather, tech, AWD, there are still options in that price range that aren’t shaped like a pickup.

  • avatar
    sirwired

    Well, there’s neither a truck shortage on lots, nor months and months of inventories piling up, so the answer is, obviously, no.

    They are certainly more than I’d ever be willing to pay, but that is none of the automaker’s concern…

    My ideal pickup would be one that was cheap, 2 seats, spartan interior, and about as efficient and refined as my lawnmower, with just enough power for some moderate hauling duties (a decent NA I4 w/ a 4 or 5spd would be fine). It’d never be a daily driver, but handy for all those sorts of stupid little chores where you say “I wish I had a pickup”. Something like a mid-90’s base regular cab, regular bed, Ranger…

    • 0 avatar
      Vulpine

      Got a 20-year-old Ranger right now. Less than 25K on the clock and pretty well equipped as you describe. But… being that low mileage I’ll ask a premium.

      SLT trim, by the way. And the AC will freeze you out if you let it.

    • 0 avatar
      gtemnykh

      “Something like a mid-90’s base regular cab, regular bed, Ranger…”

      I have this exact vehicle (’97, Lima 4cyl, 5spd, rwd, XLT reg cab-styleside 6.5 bed). $1700 on craigslist for solid running single-owner 125k example. Now, it definitely needs some catch-up maintenance and repairs that I’ll be addressing soon (to the tune of about $500 in parts to refresh the suspension, weld in a new core support, rear shock mounts, one spring hanger, replace all belts/hoses/plugs/wires, redo the parking brake. All in call it about $3200 to get a very nice driving, well sorted utilitarian truck that I don’t feel bad about scratching the paint on.

      • 0 avatar
        427Cobra

        I had a ’91 Ranger XLT… standard cab/short bed, 2.3L 4 cylinder 5 speed 2 wheel drive. Bought it in ’97 for $2000 with 100k miles on it. Drove it for 7 years & another 92k miles, then sold it for $1000… one of the best vehicles I ever had. Nice, tidy size… cheap parts… easy to work on… and ice cold air.

  • avatar
    Verbal

    I have a large penis, so I don’t need a fancy expensive pickup truck.

  • avatar
    John R

    The absurd profit margins will continue until financing disapproves.

  • avatar
    SearMizok

    Absolutely TOO expensive!!! They say the Ford F150 is the number-1 selling vehicle in the world. I don’t know how it could be. I make decent money and I can’t afford one!!! How are so many people able to buy such an expensive vehicle?!?!?!!?

    • 0 avatar
      sirwired

      Well, a lot of those sales are as work trucks (including bare-chassis sales to places that turn them into specialty trucks of various sorts), where they have basic equipment and driven hard and into the ground, making them a bit more cost-effective.

      If you took away the commercial sales, it wouldn’t look as popular.

    • 0 avatar
      johnny_5.0

      You might not be able to afford a King Ranch, but many people can afford the cheaper trims. You can get into a regular cab F-150 for under $22K before haggling (regular cab, 2 wheel drive, 6.5′ bed). You can get a SuperCrew with a stout 2.7 turbo V6 for $28.6K before negotiations. Again, I’m not sure why so many people go nuts over the high MSRP. It’s not like it takes a secret hand shake to knock $10k off the top. It’s advertised right on the website of every Ford/GM/Dodge dealer. I’d say these things are positively _cheap_ for what you get.

      • 0 avatar
        Sigivald

        Yeah, the local fleet dealer has a brand new XL with the V6 FFV for $24,112, come buy it right now.

        Sticker’s $30K, but nobody pays sticker for a work truck.

        (And that’s a FANCY one with a rear camera!)

        • 0 avatar
          Sigivald

          (A quick internet search suggests a ’78 Lariat 4×4 was around $7,100.

          That’s just under $28k today; a modern Lariat costs a lot more, but is equally a *lot* fancier than those of the late ’70s; looking at pics of a ’78 Lariat I’d rather have today’s base model, and that’s as someone who owns an F250XLT and knows how lowish-spec Ford trucks are.

          Modern trucks cost a little more than old trucks, adjusted, but are *far superior in every way*.

          If price matters a lot, buy lightly used, come out ahead.)

  • avatar
    Vulpine

    To answer the question: In a word, YES! But even if they were cheaper, I wouldn’t buy a full-sized truck because they are so massive.

    How do I know they’re too expensive? Because the factory and the dealerships are using $10K and larger rebates off the hood to move them. Reduce the MSRP by that much and simply eliminate the huge incentives.

  • avatar
    smartascii

    I think that trucks no longer fill the market segment addressed by grandpa’s regular-cab, three-on-the-tree, six-cylinder metal box. Most trucks today are more Sedan deVille replacement than workhorse, and when you view them in this context, equipment levels and ATPs make sense. In lots of circles, driving a luxury sedan or anything “foreign” raises eyebrows, but showing up in a $70k F-150 is fine. If people wanted trucks for work, smaller cabs, longer beds, and lower equipment levels would be more popular than they are, but fewer people live in rural areas or run family farms than was once the case (not that that’s the only work you do with trucks, but we’re definitely more urban than we used to be) . It’s also worth noting that, at least in my area, discounts on those top-tier trucks are routinely advertised from $10k-$15k, depending on the brand and time of year, and between 0% for 72 months and subsidized leasing rates, those trucks are not as expensive from a monthly budget approach as they seem (and a lot of people approach their finances that way).

    • 0 avatar
      gtemnykh

      Look at what a lot of farmers drive smartascii, around here is oftentimes a 3/4 or 1 ton dually crewcab diesel, that doubles as the family’s main road trip/traveling vehicle.

      Fleet operators and those who want them can still find the reg-cab rwd trucks, but for many, the multi-purpose nature of a modern half-ton crewcab as a family vehicle (perhaps first and foremost) with the benefit of being the weekend hauler, all in one vehicle is fantastically appealing. I currently have two vehicles that do these rolls seperately (and it’s a lot cheaper than owning a single new truck) but if I had to consolidate to one newer vehicle, I’d be mighty tempted by one of these “loathed” 4wd crew cab short box half ton trucks.

  • avatar
    srh

    Too expensive… no and yes. Clearly for their current sales volume they are priced correctly. They are, however, too expensive for me, since I don’t own one.

  • avatar
    dal20402

    Your answer is embedded in your complaint. You can’t buy a 4×4 base model because nobody except fleet buyers wants a base model, and the vast majority of fleet buyers don’t want 4×4. If higher trims were too expensive, more retail buyers would buy base models.

    I’m thinking about whether to buy a truck. But I want it only for home projects, because I’d rather drive a car most of the time, and I don’t want to spend any money. A late, Vortec-powered GMT400 in reasonable shape for about $3000 would be the ticket.

    • 0 avatar
      JimZ

      “You can’t buy a 4×4 base model”

      you most certainly can, there’s no issue adding 4×4 to an F-150 XL with the base 3.3 V6.

      • 0 avatar
        MrIcky

        @JimZ – but the rub is dealers don’t stock base models, you have to order them. And if you have to order them, you typically don’t get those big ‘truck month’ type discounts. Unless you live in farm country where W/T models are pretty common, of course.

        • 0 avatar
          Dan

          “@JimZ – but the rub is dealers don’t stock base models, you have to order them. ”

          Cars.com shows 164 F-150 XLs within 50 miles of MANHATTAN.

          • 0 avatar
            DenverMike

            They’d be crazy not to stock “base” models. A sale’s a *sale* and too many can’t be swayed into anything more than the cheapest pickups known to man. We’re not talking Ridgelines.

        • 0 avatar
          Sigivald

          Sure they do.

          If you go to your local *fleet* dealer.

          (See post above; there are at least two F150 XL 4x4s with the FFV V6 near me, both well under $30k, but it today.

          The next farthest fleet dealer has several on a spot check…

          And get this – a 4×2 stripper XL for under $24K!)

        • 0 avatar
          JimZ

          the statement was “you can’t buy a 4×4 base model” full stop. I stated otherwise. No need for the “but… but… no discounts but… but… you have to order.”

    • 0 avatar
      Corey Lewis

      Have you got anywhere to *put* said truck?

      • 0 avatar
        Vulpine

        That right there is my #1 argument against today’s pickups. They’re simply too big.

      • 0 avatar
        dal20402

        It’d have to live on the street. Another argument for buying a cheap truck.

        • 0 avatar
          gtemnykh

          Do it dal. Cheap trucks that can live on the street are awesome :) Although I did end up treating my ranger to a polish and wax, just couldn’t help myself! The very next weekend I had fresh scratches from loading/unloading river rock for the patio :/

          GMT400 gen trucks are some of my favorites. I honestly would have bought a rwd W/T with the 4.3L and 5spd had one come up when I was shopping. I’d feel more comfortable loading up a full ton of payload if I had that versus the Ranger.

    • 0 avatar
      Lou_BC

      @dal20402 – that depends on where you live. In North Central BC where I live, 4×2 pickups are lot poison. My local dealer has a 2016 reg cab long box 4×2 that has been on the lot since last spring. All of the dealers in my town carry base model fleet spec 4×4 reg cab trucks.

  • avatar
    TW5

    The question doesn’t specify new or used. We have some flexibility when supplying our answer.

    New Trucks: Yes, they are ridiculously overpriced, and too many variants are offered. I believe the F-150 still offers 3 cabs, 3 bed lengths, 4 engines/transmissions, 2 drive options, 8-9 trim levels, and side-step bed. Consumers pay a premium for all of this variability, yet few customers actually order the unicorn configurations they want. They often prefer to negotiate on a truck that is close to what they want.

    Despite having plenty of room in the engine pay for longitudinal mounting, truck manufacturers chose V-6 configuration over inline 6, which increases costs slightly. I don’t know what the ATP is for fullsize trucks, but they can easily be optioned $50,000-$60,000 for the nicer trims. That’s luxury car pricing for something that is supposed to be a tool. It’s like buying a jewel encrusted hammer. How did this become cool instead of signaling to the entire world that you are a poseur?

    Used Trucks: No. They are probably too cheap. Buyers can get a Gen-1 crew cab 4×4 Toyota Tundra for about $8K-10K, depending on mileage and condition. The Access Cab 2wd V6 variants will only set you back about $6K-$8K, for the 4.0L V6. Dirt cheap. Prices for American trucks of the same vintage are about the same. Older HD Chevrolets and Fords (excluding the 7.3L diesel) will usually cost between $8K-$15K depending on vintage and powertrain.

    Lot’s of bargains even in the used truck market. The bargains in the used market actually affect the net cost of new trucks. Not only is MSRP going up, but trade-in values are falling.

    • 0 avatar
      Lou_BC

      “I believe the F-150 still offers 3 cabs, 3 bed lengths, 4 engines/transmissions, 2 drive options, 8-9 trim levels, and side-step bed.”

      3 cabs yes, but only 2 cab lengths per cab style.
      reg cab 6.5 or 8.0 bed
      extended cab – 6.5 or 8.0 (excluding Raptor)
      Crew – 5.5 or 6.5 box

      There hasn’t been a step side box in decades.

      There is nothing wrong with multiple choices.

      • 0 avatar
        TW5

        Thanks for the correction.

        I was looking at the 2018 configurator yesterday, but I didn’t realize the 5.5ft specs were blank because the option didn’t exist, I thought Ford hadn’t updated. Regarding the bed config, I could have sworn I saw Style Side and Step Side as bed options, but it’s not on the site now so you must be correct.

  • avatar
    rpol35

    As long as the marketplace is nuckin’ futz for trucks, especially in light of the collapse of sedan sales, the manufacturers will price to the market demand. And as others here have stated, that is simply a matter of making the monthly payment. Subprime loans? Here we go again……..

  • avatar
    Zackman

    A deluxe 4-door pickup with all the goodies is just the modern day Buick Electra 225 with the trunk lid optional.

    Unfortunately, a pillarless hardtop version doesn’t seem to be available!

    Are they over-priced? Yes and no. For most, well, apparently, due to their popularity, no. For me personally? Yes. Even a basic work truck isn’t cheap by any means.

    • 0 avatar
      Corey Lewis

      Yep, soft and spacious, that’s what they are – Electras. I think the -more practical- truck most family people would probably *enjoy* the most is the Ridgeline. But you know, image and all.

  • avatar
    Master Baiter

    Most of these contrivances serve as extensions of the male reproductive organ.

    I would only buy one if I absolutely HAD to tow something heavy.
    .
    .

  • avatar
    kwong

    Yes pickup trucks are expensive but so is everything else, says this cheapskate. The fact of the matter is that most things of value have outpaced the rate of wage growth. Essentially wages and income has not kept up with inflation over the last 30 years. However, the financial engineering with credit, liquidity, and derivatives (CDO, MBS, CDF, etc) has allowed corporations and individuals to borrow more and more money to make things such as expensive pickups “affordable.”

    As for me, I inherited an 06 Chevy Silverado 2500HD Duramax. I dumped $400 in rear shocks, tie rod ends, a drive belt, and tensioner…I was shocked at the cost of a new one.

  • avatar
    SCE to AUX

    I’d like to see one of the B&B proudly admit that they’ve paid the “too much” price for a blinged-out truck.

    Because my impression is that most everyone around here is above that.

    *Somebody* is buying these things, and they’re not all corporate trucks.

    I miss Big Trucks; he’d say it.

    • 0 avatar
      Big Al from Oz

      SCE to AUX,
      I don’t know if I payed too much for my pickup.

      But, I did spend a lot on something I just wanted.

      I have CAPABILITY! I might even use it one day;)

    • 0 avatar
      bumpy ii

      “I’m going to pay a lot for this muffler!”

      When was the last time anyone here bought a muffler that wasn’t for an antique or part of a catback?

    • 0 avatar
      jack4x

      I’m not afraid to admit I’ll be ordering a Platinum Super Duty in the next 6-8 months, I expect to drive the truck at least 10 years, why not enjoy that time as much as possible? Some people need or want a diesel, I don’t, so I choose to spend the $10k upfront cost on a trim level upgrade instead.

    • 0 avatar
      smartascii

      I did. I’m not the average car-buyer (usually), but I was replacing two cars, and a Platinum F-150 what what I chose. I had a 2011 328i and a Ford Excursion; the Ford had almost 300k miles on it, and the BMW was a BMW, meaning that it was always a little bit broken somehow, and the dealer couldn’t replicate my concerns, or “it’s supposed to work that way,” etc., and it also bent a wheel or bubbled a run-flat every time you looked at it funny. The Excursion was used for hauling stuff and towing, and the BMW was used for everything else. So. The F-150 does everything I needed and wanted, except be fun to drive, and our terrible roads don’t screw up the wheels or knock it out of alignment. It’s rated for 1,960 lbs of payload. Do I do that? No, but I carry large stuff with it. It’s rated to tow 10,900 lbs. Do I do that?
      Also, no, but I tow regularly. I like all the pseudo-luxury features, although I don’t need them, and I like having, insuring and maintaining a single vehicle instead of two. But on the right day, on the right road, I still miss the BMW.

    • 0 avatar
      Sigivald

      I can’t buy a $60k truck.

      Next truck might well be a $40K truck, though, because when I drive it it’s for long distances and comfort matters, as does quiet, etc.

      (Or even better, a used $60K truck that someone else ate $35-40k of depreciation on.)

    • 0 avatar
      JimZ

      “I’d like to see one of the B&B proudly admit that they’ve paid the “too much” price for a blinged-out truck.”

      and just who are you to judge whether someone else paid “too much” for something?

  • avatar
    Big Al from Oz

    kwong,
    I was informed I disagree very often with my comments. But, I’m finding it of only value to me to do so.

    Now, expensive this day and age?

    Lets go back a few decades.

    How much was a TV, or sound system, or computer or smart phone?

    I think you’ll find services are where the greatest price rises have occurred. Why? Because it’s mostly done in house within the US.

    Manufactured goods are relatively stable. Imported goods have increased competition within the US helping to contain costs.

    US pickups are more expensive than need be, because there is a 25% tax on pickups that are not from the US/NAFTA.

    So, where have costs risen the most? Generally from any US sourced product or service.

    • 0 avatar
      Lou_BC

      “But, I’m finding it of only value to me to do so.”

      That was an incredibly insightful comment.

      Progress is being made!

    • 0 avatar
      DenverMike

      @BAFO – Please make up your mind…

      If it’s true “…US pickup are more expensive than they need to be…”, this would open up the market for import “global pickups” to pay the $5,000 or so Chicken tax, and still safely undercut US pickups.

      Of course they wouldn’t pay the Chicken tax since it’s far cheaper, pennies on the dollar, to simply complete the trucks when they land in the US, like Mahindra was going to do. And Mercedes does with Sprinters.

      Obviously all this is *pretending* US pickups, especially the fullsize variety (not to mention HDs, one tons and duallies), have any really competition globally.

  • avatar
    jh26036

    I definitely do not agree with pickups being too expensive. At the local Chevy dealer here, you can pickup a base Colorado for $19k. A CC 4WD Colorado for $26k. A Silverado 1500 with Double Cab, $30k. I have bought from this dealer before and what they advertise, they’ll sell it to you. I assume it is pretty much the same with Ram and Ford.

    To me, those prices are right in line with what they’re suppose to be.

    • 0 avatar
      Vulpine

      I definitely do not agree with pickups being too expensive.
      —- People will always disagree;

      At the local Chevy dealer here, you can pickup a base Colorado for $19k.
      —- Where are you that a base model is that cheap?

      A CC 4WD Colorado for $26k.
      —- Except that I don’t want a CC, I want an extended cab.

      A Silverado 1500 with Double Cab, $30k.
      —- too big.

      I have bought from this dealer before and what they advertise, they’ll sell it to you.
      —- Only if they can’t convince you to upgrade… and they try VERY hard to do so.

      I assume is pretty much the same with Ram and Ford.
      —- Dangerous assumption.

  • avatar
    brenschluss

    I sometimes like to daydream about the natural laws of other dimensions. For example, just imagine one where, if you choose to participate in a heated argument about midsize trucks on the internet, the effects of gravity are suddenly reversed, just for you, and you’re shot into the cold vacuum of outer space.

  • avatar
    pmirp1

    There are pickups that can be had for less than 40k relatively fully loaded. Then again, there are crew cabs with all kinds of sumptuous leather and wood and real metals for 70-80k. Bottom line, Trucks with aluminum and 4 wheel drive and highly evolved engines are the greatest vehicles available today. The crew cabs are the Marlboro man’s family car, work vehicle, evening out vehicle. Over 100k, easy for special edition versions. Not too much. And they last for ever.
    Who cares about Mercedes S class and otherwise. These are the family choices of today’s man. A real man’s family car.

  • avatar
    newenthusiast

    “Expensive’ is a relative term. As a non-truck buyer, I personally think they are too expensive. But since I’m not a potential customer, I’m sure I’m an outlier and my opinion doesn’t matter anyway.

    The MSRP on some of the trucks I read about here are more than I’d pay for anything short of a high end luxury brand vehicle of any sort.

    But if the market will bear it, and customers want it, more power to the each party in that transaction, I guess. The truth is that the entire GMC line and the Chevy full size SUVs could probably sell for even more than they do now. Except then they’d be in Cadillac Escalade territory, and I think GM doesn’t want that.

  • avatar
    bullnuke

    Get out the most realistic inflation of your choice and plug in the numbers for the msrp of a truck 20-years ago and the msrp of a similarly-equipped 2017 truck. You’ll probably find that trucks prices rise pretty closely with inflation of the currency. My $31.5k ’99 SuperDuty would cost $46.4 today. With the same options (but with an auto as manual is no longer available) – a 2017 SuperDuty sports a $46.6k msrp. Perhaps trucks have always been too expensive.

    • 0 avatar
      bullnuke

      I just pulled the same trick using my ’90 Chevy Cheyenne 1500 as an example. The 1990 msrp of $14.3k for my old Chevy translates to $26.8k in 2017 dollars. A 2017 model, comparably equipped, is $32.1k msrp – perhaps showing that there is price rise beyond inflation on half-tons. Just my experience.

  • avatar
    sportyaccordy

    As someone who lowers every car I buy within ~6 months of purchase, for the life of me I can’t even begin to understand the appeal of the pickup truck as a daily driver. To me it’s a continuing reminder of how much Americans loathe driving… as a passenger the ride experience was completely detached from the road.

    • 0 avatar
      newenthusiast

      Lowering a vehicle makes a ride harsher than what most people want a car to do: transport them to where the need to be in a mostly pleasant, unobtrusive manner. I don’t think that means they all loathe driving (although some people do), only that they value different characteristics than you while driving. Quiet comfort over performance specs.

      I don’t want to feel like I’m on a cloud or anything, but the few times I’ve been in a lowered car, the sensation of feeling every little road imperfection was not pleasant either. Too much like a go-kart. And I love driving. Give me some tunes, a nice day so I can have my sunroof open, and a long road trip, and I’m very happy.

      That being said, I agree with you: riding in a truck was a completely different experience for me from even the typical CUV/SUV. VERY disconnected.

    • 0 avatar
      Sigivald

      It’s not our fault you’re history’s greatest monster.

    • 0 avatar
      gtemnykh

      For the life of me I can’t even begin to understand the appeal lowering every car I buy within ~6 months of purchase on a daily driver.

      See what I did there?

    • 0 avatar
      427Cobra

      the appeal’s pretty simple, actually… comfort… space… visibility… safety. Gobs of power… vault-like quiet… versatile. Fun-to-drive??? not so much… but I’m not looking for fun-to-drive in my daily driver… comfort rules. I have a lowered ’04 Corvette Z06 for fun times.

  • avatar
    Fred

    Since I’m no longer living on 6 wooded acres in Texas, nor do I want to do big remodeling jobs, YES trucks are too expensive. I’ve got an nice TSX sportwagon that hauls all I need for about half what a new truck will cost.

  • avatar
    George B

    Steph, the issue is that the US full sized pickup truck has morphed into a replacement for large, well equipped, passenger cars in a way that detracts from their utility for work. The defining characteristic of a pickup truck, the large bed separate from the passenger compartment, has been shrinking in length and moving up in height. Back is the 20th century it was easy for a man of average height to lift cargo over the side of the bed and there was no need for steps to climb into the bed from the tailgate. The bed itself matched the dimensions of common building materials. In 2017 you can’t buy a new pickup truck with the classic 20th century work truck proportions and altitude.

  • avatar
    Dan

    A bajillion dollars of quantitative easing later, everything is expensive now. But the idiot-and-his-money trim at a 50% markup is hardly unique to trucks.

    I paid 37 OTD for my F-150 XLT. That’s more than Camcord money but it isn’t vastly more and I got what I feel is a lot more car in exchange for that.

  • avatar
    tjh8402

    Are the prices too high? probably if you’re the sort to view a truck as a tool for a job. OTOH, if you’re like most people, who view it as a status and style symbol, you’re gonna be willing to pay for the image. I had a guy I work with who has a Ram talk about how he was renting a trailer to carry stuff. Someone asked him why he didn’t put it in the bed, and he answered that it’s because he didn’t want to mess up his bedliner. As one person above said – Cowboy Cadillacs indeed.

  • avatar
    zip89123

    Except for Ram, which I easily buy cheap, pickups are too expensive. GM, Ford, Tundra, and even the midsizers are sparsely optioned and too damn expensive. If I needed one today, Ram would win on price & content.

  • avatar
    Jeff S

    Since most of the comments state that with inflation that truck prices have not gone up one could argue that the manufacturers should actually raise the prices of trucks. Even with an 8k to 10k discount the manufacturers could still make even more profit. Why even get bothered by the Chicken Tax since most who buy trucks will pay the price. If I were the auto companies I would cut out more base models and include more options as standard equipment and raise the price. Even if you make and sell a few less trucks you would make more money. Just offer longer term loans and more leases. Your customer is the dealer and the dealer would rather sell higher profit trucks. Even though I would like a smaller and less expensive truck I am not the customer it is the dealers. Higher truck prices would make truck alternatives more attractive especially sedans if the truck prices were increased significant and thus help the average fleet efficiency to rise. If people really want larger trucks then they will be willing to pay more and thus increase the profit margins of the manufactures and dealers. The additional profits could be used to develop more competitive sedans and to pay larger dividends to the stockholders thus increasing the value of the stock.

    • 0 avatar
      Vulpine

      @jeff S: If they did that, they would really open up the market for small trucks and make things much more tempting for the imports as they could readily access a now completely abandoned market segment.

  • avatar
    gearhead77

    I

  • avatar
    gearhead77

    I vaguely remember the window sticker on my dads 88 Ranger being around 11-12k. It was a 2wd V6 XLT 5 spd extended cab with rear jumpseats. The only thing it didn’t have was A/C or power windows or locks. Inflation calculators tell me that it’s about 24k in today’s money.

    Quickly messing with Chevys build and price gives me a Colorado V6 with 8 spd auto and stuff that wasn’t even in a Mercedes in 1988 in a 30k sticker. But going with 4wd and you’re at 32k. Add just a few options and you’re 36k sticker. Is that too much for a vehicle that accomplishes many tasks? It is to me, but it’s not wholly out of line. The shame is there isn’t a Ford Ranger or Dodge Dakota to go against the GM twins.

    My bigger problem is that even 2wd trucks are nearly the same ride height as the 4wd version. And that finding a simply equipped truck can be a challenge that’s not in the “work truck” trim.

  • avatar
    raph

    Not expensive enough unfortunately to keep these mobile bumbling road blocks out of the hands of the proletariat using them solely for personal transportation!

  • avatar
    Jeff S

    @gearhead77–The list price on my 99 S-10 extended cab was 16k which included 5 speed manual, air conditioning, power steering, power assist brakes, AM FM cassette radio, and aluminum wheels. With a GM Master Card rebate, $1,500 cash back, and additional discount I paid $10,464 including GM installed bedliner, taxes, title, and licensing. I am still driving it over 18 years later. I think the prices of pickups especially larger ones is high regardless of the inflation index but if the manufacturers and dealers can sell them at the higher prices and even make a sizable profit when offering 8k to 10k off sticker then they must be doing something right. Could be that eventually pickups will lose some of their appeal as people either find more affordable vehicles and/or they get tired of them. As long as the market is good then the manufacturers will keep making them and the dealers will sell them. There are some decent buys in pickups if you are willing to go for a more base trim. You can even find a Colorado Base (extended cab with rear seat delete) with 6 speed manual, rear view camera, air conditioning, power steering, power brakes, power windows, power drivers seat at some dealers for less than 19k. There are not a lot of them but you can find them and for the money they are a good deal if you are willing to live with vinyl seats, and plastic floor (Work trim). If I were buying a new truck I would buy a silver Colorado Base because it checks all the boxes for what I need and want in a truck for my life style. I use my S-10 to go to the park and ride and to pickup bulky items and to haul things away. I will keep my S-10 for as long as I live in my current house and when I retire I will downsize and use it for getting rid of stuff and then get rid of it.

  • avatar
    baconator

    Full-size truck buyers aren’t stupid. Full-size trucks are the most durable and comfortable vehicles that the Big Three make, and also the ones that depreciate most slowly. And a *lot* of buyers can claim a full-size truck as a business expense and deduct the cost. That’s equivalent to a 30-50% discount over a luxury SUV or sedan, right there.

    There’s also a joy to be found in driving the product that the manufacturer takes most seriously and puts the most thought and effort into. The F-150 is to Ford what the S-Class is to Mercedes, and it shows in the little details.

  • avatar
    thelaine

    @bacon. TRUTH

  • avatar
    thornmark

    Yes, pickups are overpriced, as are college educations and homes. The culprit is “easy financing”. It builds bubble pricing – until it doesn’t and the scheme collapses.

    Did the gov let the housing market correct – not really – they spent untold billions propping up housing prices and the banks, making the debacle protracted. Many markets are ready to collapsed again.

    College prices have no cap when the gov encourages virtually unlimited loans. Same w/ truck prices – the financing makes these sales possible – until it doesn’t. And the loan market for vehicles is really shaky now. They borrowed sales from the future at inflated prices.

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