By on February 15, 2017

2017 IONIQ HEV

Once upon a time, Toyota’s Prius was the only real choice for anyone looking to get into a futuristic “hybrid” car. The microscopic Honda Insight, looking like a tear dropped from a poet’s eye, held two seats — and that’s no good for taking your friends to book club.

As technology did what it has been known to do (advance), other automakers picked up the torch, outfitting conventional family sedans with battery packs and Atkinson-cycle engines. The segment soon became more diverse, just in time to see the public’s enthusiasm for hybrids taper off.

Now, from Japan’s neighbor, comes a new Hyundai model — offered as a hybrid or electric, and with a plug-in on the way — that undercuts the world’s most recognizable hybrid in price. Your move, Toyota.

As models roll out to dealer lots, Hyundai has announced pricing for both the hybrid and all-electric variant of its Ioniq family, all of which ride atop a dedicated electrified platform.

Selling a straight-up hybrid vehicle these days is tough, as buyers are either choosing to forgo cars in favor of big SUVs and crossovers, or opt for a plug-in variant that offers a measure of all-electric range. Both the Prius and Ioniq have plug-in models on the way.

Unfortunately for Toyota, the Ioniq Hybrid arrives with a lower entry price — $22,200, plus a $835 delivery charge, in base Blue trim. A mid-range SEL trim retails for $23,950, still lower than the base Prius price of $24,685 (plus delivery). Only the Ionic Hybrid’s top Limited trim goes higher with an MSRP of $27,500.

Hyundai, always the value pick, scores again on that front. When you’re a newcomer in a small and competitive market that isn’t exactly on fire, it’s best to do something to stand out. The Ioniq’s powertrain, which features a direct-injection 1.6-liter Atkinson-cycle four-cylinder mated to a 43-horsepower electric motor, makes a combined power rating of 138 hp, to the Prius’ 121.

While the Prius offers a continuously variable transmission for smooth efficiency, Hyundai has gone a different route, preferring the engaged feel of a six-speed dual-clutch automatic. For efficiency, Hyundai’s setup delivers more — an EPA-estimated 58 miles per gallon in combined driving, versus the Prius’s average of 52 mpg. (The Eco version is rated at 56 mpg.)

Coefficient of drag for both models is identical, at 0.24 Cd.

While it would seem the Ionic Hybrid excels in many areas, its electric counterpart arrives at a time when long-range, lower-cost EVs are beginning to hit the market. With 124 miles of range on tap, the Ioniq beats older models like the Ford Focus Electric and Nissan Leaf and matches the upgraded Volkswagen e-Golf. However, it falls far behind the Chevrolet Bolt’s 238 miles and upcoming Tesla Model 3’s 215.

One thing it does have going for it is price. The base Ioniq Electric carries a $29,500 MSRP before delivery, and before a federal tax credit that would push its price $7,500 lower. The Bolt, on the other hand, works out to about $30,000 after the credit.

After a radical redesign failed to result in a surge of new or returning buyers, Toyota’s Prius can only sit and chew its nails.

[Image: Hyundai Motor America]

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81 Comments on “2017 Hyundai Ioniq Hybrid’s Price is the Latest Blow for Toyota’s Prius...”


  • avatar
    OldManPants

    It’s still not Japanese but priced closely enough to Japanese that prospective buyers, however few, will opt for Japanese because a little more at purchase gets back much more at resale.

    Ecce Korean.

    A brief chuckle, if I may:

    “the engaged feel of a six-speed dual-clutch automatic”

    • 0 avatar
      John-95_Taurus_3.0_AX4N

      All it needs is the wheels and tires from a 1986 Excel. Then it will handle like a Mustang, get 87 mpg, and ride like a Park Avenue.

    • 0 avatar
      APaGttH

      Gravity has caught up with Prius resale values. It is still pretty good, but the days of buying a Prius, driving it for 3 years and selling it for darn close to what you paid for it are long over.

      https://seattle.craigslist.org/search/sss?query=toyota%20prius&sort=rel

      • 0 avatar
        gtemnykh

        APaGttH,

        I had brought this up in another thread, but with a twist: prices are really cheap right now for what you can get in terms of lightly used Prii (I’m a fan of the “V” wagon myself). If you were to buy a 1-2 year old example right now, I’d be willing to bet that you could drive it for 4-5 more years until the next gas price spike, then sell for a premium and come out of it with a massively low TCO owing to the Prius economy and slow rate of wear on various maintenance items (oil, brakes). I’m almost tempted to at least test drive a V now, it’d fit nicely in near term family plans. The bigger question is if I’d be able to make peace with the powertrain.

        • 0 avatar
          tonycd

          gtem, I’ll give the same reply I gave in the other thread: Great resale value is terrific, true. But in the next gas-price spike, you’d still be better off keeping it than cashing it in. You’ve got to drive something. And like selling your house when real estate goes up, the replacement you buy will be overpriced too.

          Other than that, I like the way you think. I agree this is the ideal time to buy a used Prius – so much so, I just bought one (Gen 3) for my wife. As for the powertrain, I had the same doubts about my ability to tolerate it, but it’s much more okay than I feared. Fun in its peculiarity, even, and less slow than publicized. It’s no slower than the Vulcan Taurus she had before (a low bar, I know, but it’s accepted by most as “a car”). I’m sincerely impressed, and so is my car-nut brother.

          Only caution: Buy a top trim, because the seats on the cloth-trim Prius have a really bad reputation on the forums as back-torturers on longer drives. (Not sure if this is also true of the V.)

          • 0 avatar
            gtemnykh

            Tony I agree the the ultimate low TCO is to buy the Prius now and just hang onto it until it finally wears out (which will take a hell of a long time). My own motivation is more of a Steve-Lang-esque “hit ’em where they ain’t” mentality driven in part by ambivalence to fuel economy. I tend to prefer the utility of SUVs myself, but like the notion of scooping up a perfectly nice commuter vessel such as the Prius, if only because I know I’m getting a steal of a deal.

            So not 100% rational, but it makes sense in my head.

  • avatar
    PrincipalDan

    I’m sure it will sell in greater numbers than the Honda Insight or the CRZ.

    • 0 avatar
      OldManPants

      So will my album of Bee Gees tunes on the accordion.

    • 0 avatar
      John-95_Taurus_3.0_AX4N

      Insight didn’t beat Prius in the numbers game after the Prius-sized model came out.

      The CR-Z was limited like the first insight, two seater.

      This beats the hideously ugly Prius in both price and mileage. Not to mention it doesn’t provoke nausea in anyone who looks at it like the latest Prius. It actually looks pretty good.

      As long as gas remains cheap, none of them are going to light the sales charts on fire, but I’m giving Hyundai/Kia a win on this one. *Not ugly* and decent numbers all around.

      • 0 avatar
        carlisimo

        The 2nd-gen Insight wasn’t really Prius-sized. It felt like it was in between a subcompact and a compact, and I found it hard to get in the back seat without hitting my head (and I’m short for a guy).

        The Prius is halfway in between a Corolla and a Camry so it’s a perfectly serviceable car if you have babies in giant car seats. I think half its success is because it’s the perfect size for a lot of people.

      • 0 avatar
        tonycd

        John, I’d have a hard time choosing the Prius over the Hyundai simply because the new Prius is an intolerably ugly eyesore. But I’d have a hard time choosing the Hyundai over the Prius because of reliability and durability.

        High gas mileage is only half of what makes the Prius so tempting to a cheapskate like me. The other half is that it runs forever and never breaks – check out the numbers, they’re unbelievable. Not that the Hyundai will be uniquely bad, but I question whether Hyundai-level materials and a dual-clutch automatic will prove as bulletproof as the Prius. For that matter, has anybody really made a low-maintenance, highly reliable dual-clutch transmission? From what I’ve read, neither VW nor Ford succeeded at it. I think the jury’s still out on this technology.

        • 0 avatar
          bd2

          The Prius battery-pack isn’t “bullet-proof” – know a person who ended up paying for 2 battery-pack replacements.

          Anyhow, the greater threat to the Prius would be the Kia Niro with its crossover body-style.

  • avatar
    indi500fan

    Prius has so much brand equity and a solid reliability record over nearly two decades. The Koreans may nibble around the edges, but I don’t see them taking many sales away.

    With gas under two bucks a gallon, I think the category will continue to be weak. There may be some excellent buys on the Kia/Hyundai hybrids six months from now.

    • 0 avatar
      John-95_Taurus_3.0_AX4N

      OHHH its hopeless. No new model to challenge an established player has ever worked, EVER.

      Who needs a Bronco when we have the Wrangler. SO PHUCKIN MUCH EQUITY. Nobody knows what a Ford Bronco is! It was never any sort of namesake in off-road vehicles, thats why fully restored or original survivors go for like $2,300 max. Its sad. You feel bad for those guys.

      Why did GM bother with the Colorado/Canyon when we have the Tacoma? No wonder they only sold like ten so far, combined.

      Why also did Chevy (and Dodge!) come out with a reborn muscle car compeditor when the Mustang was SO LEGENDARY that nothing could touch it? Yep, I think they sold like 24 of those Chevys, 7 of the Dodge. For shame.

      • 0 avatar
        sportyaccordy

        These context-free analogies always grind my gears. Back then the Wrangler curb stomped the Bronco, the market conditions were ripe for it. Plus the Wrangler was just better than the Bronco- same off road capability with like half the weight. Mustang was out for like 2 years when the Camaro came out. Colorado/Canyon were another case of market conditions and lack of competition.

        Ioniq is facing like 20 headwinds… the Prius is ugly but it’s not bad, and if you don’t like the Prius I’m sure you can get into an Accord/Fusion/Altima/Camry hybrid for cheap, while getting way better performance and refinement. And yea, sub $2 gas = people aren’t thinking about gas prices, so the whole “hybrid to save $$$” market is out too.

    • 0 avatar
      APaGttH

      Ya, that’s it brand equity, that’s why Toyota sedan sales are in freefall across the board. All that great brand equity.

      Yes, so is the whole category but the Accord isn’t falling at the same pace, and the Malibu went up. Tim Cain’s data shows that for the Camry in particular, it’s been ugly despite low ATP, deep incentives, and hey do you have a pulse, you qualify for financing tactics.

      • 0 avatar
        tekdemon

        Camry sales are falling only because it’s an old as heck model that was refreshed but still clearly outdated and they’ve already announced the replacement that’s coming with far more standard features included.

        I expect sales to rebound once the 2018 is available.

      • 0 avatar
        Caboose

        To be fair, it’s not lack of brand equity that’s killing Toyota sedan sales but the sickness of the sedan market as a whole. Isn’t Camry, even the elderly current one, doing “less bad” than most of its midsize competitors?

    • 0 avatar
      stuki

      If the superior to Prius combined mileage holds up in real world driving, and the car is otherwise sound, that has got to have Toyota at lest a little bit worried…

      Once the credit bubble pops, and takes much of both pure ev allure and noone who-can-fog-a-mirror-needs-concern-themselves-with-gas-prices with it, it is just not particularly acceptable for Toyota, to have ceded the efficiency crown to a bunch of Koreans.

      There’s an awful lot of delicate little optimizations involved in tuning a hybrid for actual excellence. ICE, BEV, power source mix, regen, aero vs livability….. Not something a bunch of corrupt Gangnam stylers are supposed to be able to challenge the Toyota brahmins at :)

    • 0 avatar
      zip94513

      Just like indi500fan says, Hyundai won’t be picking up Prius buyers.

      • 0 avatar
        jalop1991

        To be fair, Toyota isn’t picking up Prius buyers. That is, no one who owns a Gen2 or Gen3 Prius thinks the Gen4 monstrosity is worth buying. Toyota screwed up.

        Those who don’t want the Toyota monostrosity will head over to Hyundai to check this out, trust me. And if the Ioniq back seat is (a) easier to get into (not hard–Toyota went down the fake-coupe roofline) and (b) roomy like the old Prius, which the new Prius is not, then those previous Prius owners will buy the Hyundai.

        Well, lease it.

        • 0 avatar
          la834

          I’m guessing Toyota will tone down the “styling” for the Prius’ mid-cycle facelift, which may come early a la 2012 Civic due to buyer resistance.

          • 0 avatar
            tonycd

            Agree, la. Although I will say that for buyers like my wife who don’t care a damn about cars or their styling, the 2016-17 will be a fantastic used car value someday. All the old mechanical virtue is there, and the looks will always depress the price. It’s like the person with no sense of smell buying the car that had a skunk die in it.

        • 0 avatar
          Train

          5P seating versus 4P and don’t forget the lifetime battery warranty.

        • 0 avatar
          tonycd

          First reports from European Ioniq reviews I found:

          •Gas mileage is about Prius-level.

          •Acceleration is similar on paper, but better in the real world because of the transmission.

          •The interior is vastly superior in style, has smartphone integration, although some old Korean-grade cheap plastics.

          •The rear seat is no better than the more cramped one in the latest Prius, and the cargo hold is a little smaller.

          •The highway ride is quieter.

          •Ride and handling are not outright unacceptable but Hyundai-inferior.

          On the whole, it’s a lot like choosing between an Elantra and a Civic. You get what you pay for. Of course, the joker in the deck is that the Hyundai doesn’t make you rip both your eyeballs out of their sockets in self-defense. Toyota really has got to make an emergency fix on that, regardless.

    • 0 avatar
      tekdemon

      Honestly, Toyota has proven that the Prius is reliable since it’s been sold here since 2001. And with so many sold parts are relatively cheap and available so even if that battery pack goes kaput 10 years down the line you know there’s cells you can pull from other battery packs to repair it.

      You can also get the $4500 tax credit with the Prius prime that makes it just a little bit more money than the base Ioniq and both the Prius Prime and the regular Prius now comes standard with TSS-P, which means standard radar cruise, precollision w/pedestrian detection, lane departure system and lane keep, and automatic high beams.

      Between the reliability and the extra safety features only a crazy person would buy an Ioniq to save $1000.

    • 0 avatar
      bd2

      Well, in Europe (and the Europeans are supposed to be the more discerning drivers – “dashstrokers” and all), the Niro has been a big success for Kia.

      Which is a major reason why the US launch of the Niro had been delayed – not enough supply to fulfill all the orders in Europe and to adequately supply the US market.

  • avatar
    28-Cars-Later

    New, I’m still buying the Prius (prob used too).

  • avatar
    Russycle

    Cheaper than Prius, and better looking. I’d give it a look if I were shopping in this segment, but Toyota’s got the hybrid drivetrain nailed, I’m skeptical that Hyundai’s offering will be as competent.

  • avatar
    Chocolatedeath

    In 2.75 years when gas is again in the $3.50 plus range sales of this will pick up. Its better to have it now and get established then to not have one at all and end up like last time.

  • avatar
    Add Lightness

    if there is going to be a plug-in version of the hybrid, Hyundai must have ditched their current joke of a hybrid system.
    The electric motor/generator was hung off the gas motor like an A/C compressor and connected to the crank by a drive belt.

  • avatar
    Jeff S

    I wouldn’t call combined sales of Colorado/Canyon of 9,000 a month a flop. GM is operating the plant that makes Colorado/Canyon at full capacity with dealers maintaining low inventories. Many manufactures would like to sell 9,000 units of a product line a month or over 100k units a year.
    http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2017/02/january-2017-pickup-sales-breakdown-1.html

    • 0 avatar
      Kyree S. Williams

      John was being sarcastic. The Bronco, Colorado, Canyon, Mustang, Challenger and all of the other vehicles he mentioned were successful underdogs, which managed to destroy or at least carve a niche in monopolies held by competing cars.

  • avatar
    stevelovescars

    It looks nice, the interior looks nicer than the Prius, too. When hybrids were all new, I think Toyota’s unique styling helped differentiate the hybrid for early adopters who wanted to make a statement. I seem to not be alone in my observation that their newest version got a bit too “unique” at the time that hybrids are getting more mainstream. Hybrid drivers just aren’t making a statement anymore… those buyers have moved to plug-ins.

    Anyway, if they can keep the utility (trunk space) in the plug in version they may be on to something. I like the C-Mac PHEV but it just looses too much trunk space for my needs… it also isn’t all that efficient in hybrid mode.

  • avatar
    redliner

    Such a plain rectangular greenhouse, and still dishonest with it’s black blanking plate at the back.

    Only one car looked okay with a square DLO, the late Cadillac Eldorado ETC.

  • avatar
    SCE to AUX

    I wouldn’t worry too much about the Prius due to its pedigree, but the Ioniq is a much more interesting choice that will eat into some Prius sales.

    The only appeal of the Ioniq EV is its low price; other EVs have it beat either now, or soon.

    I doubt the plug-in hybrid will get much traction due to its higher price, so that leaves the regular hybrid as the best bet.

  • avatar
    orick

    So what’s the consensus on gas price? Going up and up soon? Or staying put?

    Pretty impressed this has more horse power, with same drag coefficient, more conventional transmission, but get better mpg. A bit skeptical as a matter of fact.

    • 0 avatar
      brandloyalty

      I’m wondering about this also. Though only a few mpg better, it takes a lot of doing for any improvement at this level. Especially with a less efficient transmission setup.

      There is easy room to do this by pushing the hybrid battery harder. Normally the batteries are so well coddled that they seem to be lasting forever. (As opposed to the urban myth of early and costly failure.) You can improve a hybrid’s mileage by going closer to full and zero charge. The price is battery longevity, but that won’t show up for a decade.

    • 0 avatar
      tonycd

      orick, my guesses:

      •First, I’m guessing Hyundai (and Kia with its same-powertrain Niro) are exaggerating their gas mileage again. An independent European reviewer already said the test Ioniq gor poorer mileage than a Prius, yet it’s rated higher. And Korea has that pesky history of lying about this. Draw your own conclusions.

      •I’ve also wondered about gas prices, and when I looked into it, there doesn’t seem to be a consensus. Short-term, I expect them to go up but only modestly. I still think they’ll jump eventually, but that’s probably years out.

    • 0 avatar
      mmreeses

      re. oil.

      same as what you’re seeing now/slightly lower. Don’t listen to peak oil or peak oil crash hyperventilation. And if there ever was a war in the Persian Gulf, all sides would lose (ie iran’s leadership and Saudi royal family gone via revolts from both the liberals and extremists in their populations)….so that should keep people well-behaved, if they act rationally.

      Buy a hybrid cuz you expect worry-free/low maintenance until it hits 200,000 miles—-not cuz of oil prices.

      But since you are reading TTAC, you should be owning your cars until 200k regardless, right?

  • avatar
    APaGttH

    Wait a minute, the Tesla Model 3 will have a range of 215 miles?

    What happened to at least 250 miles? And before there are 20 replies, “he never said that!”

    http://www.hybridcars.com/musk-says-tesla-model-3-will-have-250-miles-or-more-range/

    • 0 avatar
      SCE to AUX

      You must have really searched hard to find that article, published 9 months before the official reveal.

      With Tesla – as you know – you always have to parse the words. The article also mentions a ‘minimum of 200 miles’.

      Most people expect the Model 3 to exceed the Bolt’s 238-mile range in base configuration (despite the 215-mile claim of March 2016), and to have an optional battery that goes much farther.

      So maybe the $35k Model 3 goes 240 miles, and the $45k Model 3 goes 300 miles – who knows.

  • avatar
    Notmyname

    “Unfortunately for Toyota, the Ioniq Hybrid arrives with a lower entry price”

    This literally sums up Hyundai’s entire business model

    • 0 avatar
      tnk479

      And it’s a damned good one. I mean, I’ve never bought a Hyundai but if they can deliver a good product for lower cost than their competitors, that sounds like something we should be interested in. I sat in a G80 sport at an auto show and I was impressed.

    • 0 avatar
      LeMansteve

      In my limited experience, Hyundai offers a lot of content for a low price but at the expense of refinement. Something has to give.

      Our 2011 Santa Fe has a lot of “bells and whistles” but since day 1 (33k miles):
      1. There is a low-level hiss from the audio
      2. The driver’s seat groans when you lean in and out of the seatback
      3. Hyundai put 18″ wheels on the Limited trim, but seem to have forgotten to tune the shock absorbers to compensate for the rougher ride. Very harsh over rough pavement.
      4. The car has a 3.5L with something like 270hp, but it feels like nothing was done to mitigate torque steer. Ours is a FWD, and it’s pretty bad.
      5. The occasional hard shift into 2nd gear. Impossible to duplicate, it just seems to happen about once a month.

      The car has been very reliable but the refinement level makes me hesitate giving my money to Hyundai next time.

  • avatar
    brandloyalty

    The car “authorities” keep claiming that auto manufacturers lose money on hybrids, yet they keep marketing cheaper hybrids. What gives?

  • avatar
    Rday

    I would be worried about long term reliability and value. THese cars are not in the same league. So i would pay more for a toyota just because they do things so well. Hyundai is a good company but not yet up to the Japanese. I would also be skeptical of the transmission.

  • avatar
    syncro87

    This is an interesting car. It is priced right, and is a bit easier on the eyes than the Prius.

    However, I’d still buy a Prius before an Ioniq.

    Why:

    I don’t care what people think of the aesthetics of my car, really.

    If I’m buying a specialty car with a sole mission of max MPG, looks are a low priority.

    The Prius has a long standing reputation as being extremely reliable and durable. The Ioniq does not, as of yet. Resale of Toyotas is usually at least decent, Hyundai, spotty.

    From what I hear, getting Hyundai to actually honor their touted warranty is hit or miss. On paper, it sounds good, but I wonder how strong the warranty really is at higher miles.

    I don’t think the up front cost savings and more conservative styling would make me pull the trigger over the uglier but far safer choice of the Prius. Toyota has too much experience in the hybrid arena.

    The Hyundai DCT, long term, is a reliability unknown.

  • avatar
    Eyeflyistheeye

    A Google search tells me people have been having problems with their Hyundai DCTs much as Ford owners have had problems with theirs. Yeah, I’d rather get the Prius.

  • avatar
    SELECTIVE_KNOWLEDGE_MAN

    “The Truth About Cars”. Live up to your name and stop parroting the targeted EPA number by Hyundai.

    Hyundai will have to be up for its old shennanigans if it wants to beat Toyota in the MPG game: Both Euro norm and the new real driving test cycle put the Ioniq below the Prius. Add to this that the direct injection system of the Hyundai also makes the tailpipe emissions worse than a Prius (See the test by ADAC) and the crash test worthiness is also trailing the Prius (See EUroNCAP).

    • 0 avatar
      gtemnykh

      I was scrolling through the comments to see if anyone else is skeptical of the EPA numbers. Hyundai has a poor track record of delivering on their EPA promises (to be fair gen 2 Prius was likewise re-rated after initially claiming 60mpg IIRC).

      It’s certainly a handsome vehicle, but if I were intent on a hybrid hatchback, the value right now is in lightly used gen III prii. Why pay anywhere close to 20-23k for a new Hyundai hybrid when a 2 year old Prius with 30k miles can be found for about $13k?

      • 0 avatar
        LeMansteve

        Where in the world can you get a 2015 Prius with 30k miles for just 13 grand?

        • 0 avatar
          gtemnykh

          https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/692354483/overview/

          Okay a bit over on mileage, but many ’15s in the 40k range for about $13-14k, or ’14s with similar mileage for a bit less.

        • 0 avatar
          28-Cars-Later

          Prius C. Regular Prius, add about 3-4K to that figure.

          MY15 Toyota Prius C Level II

          01/30/17 Manheim Seattle Lease $12,400 10,682 Above Red 4H A Yes
          01/17/17 Manheim Orlando Lease $12,600 18,036 Above Silver 4H A Yes
          02/02/17 Manheim Texas Hobby Lease $11,200 19,829 Avg Gray 4H A Yes
          01/23/17 Manheim Ohio Lease $12,100 21,542 Avg Green 4H A Yes
          02/08/17 Manheim San Diego Lease $7,700 50,605 Below Black 4H A Yes
          01/18/17 Manheim San Diego Lease $9,800 53,100 Avg White 4H A Yes
          02/07/17 Manheim Riverside Lease $8,100 61,731 Below Gray 4H A Yes
          02/08/17 Manheim Riverside Lease $8,800 68,372 Avg Silver 4H A Yes

          MY15 Toyota Prius Level II

          02/13/17 Manheim San Francisco Bay Lease $16,500 4,314 Above White 4H A Yes
          02/01/17 Manheim San Francisco Bay Lease $16,700 5,444 Above Green 4H A Yes
          02/07/17 Manheim Orlando Lease $15,800 7,151 Above Silver 4H A Yes
          02/13/17 Manheim New Jersey Lease $12,400 7,763 Avg Black 4H A No
          02/13/17 Manheim Milwaukee Lease $15,600 8,066 Above Black 4H A Yes
          02/14/17 Manheim Orlando Lease $15,900 10,088 Above White 4H A Yes
          02/02/17 Manheim Atlanta Lease $15,000 12,545 Above Gray 4H A Yes
          02/07/17 Manheim Orlando Lease $16,000 13,997 Above White 4H A Yes
          02/08/17 Manheim Seattle Lease $16,600 14,299 Above Gray 4H A Yes
          02/01/17 Manheim San Francisco Bay Lease $14,900 14,494 Above Gray 4H A Yes
          02/14/17 Manheim Orlando Lease $16,200 16,057 Above Green 4H A Yes
          02/08/17 Manheim Milwaukee Lease $15,800 16,663 Above Black 4H A Yes
          02/01/17 Manheim San Francisco Bay Lease $14,900 17,264 Above Gray 4H A Yes
          02/09/17 Manheim Southern California Lease $16,500 17,524 Above White 4H A Yes
          02/02/17 Manheim Phoenix Lease $14,900 22,275 Above Silver 4H A Yes
          02/15/17 Manheim San Diego Lease $14,200 22,533 Avg Gray 4H A Yes
          02/07/17 Manheim Baltimore-Washington Lease $13,100 22,989 Avg Silver 4H A Yes
          02/15/17 Manheim San Francisco Bay Lease $15,900 24,064 Above Gray 4H A Yes
          02/02/17 Manheim Phoenix Lease $14,100 24,674 Avg Red 4H A Yes
          02/01/17 Manheim San Francisco Bay Lease $13,500 25,034 Avg Green 4H A Yes
          02/08/17 Manheim Seattle Lease $14,700 29,852 Above White 4H A Yes
          02/02/17 Manheim Texas Hobby Lease $14,100 30,994 Avg Gray 4H A Yes
          02/01/17 Manheim San Francisco Bay Lease $14,800 31,362 Above Green 4H A Yes
          02/09/17 Manheim Phoenix Lease $14,400 32,161 Avg White 4H A Yes
          02/02/17 Manheim Digital Marketplace Lease $13,200 32,161 Avg 4H A Yes
          02/07/17 Manheim Orlando Lease $13,900 32,318 Avg Blue 4H A Yes
          02/09/17 Manheim Phoenix Lease $14,300 34,067 Avg Red 4H A Yes
          02/15/17 Manheim Seattle Lease $13,300 34,292 Avg Black 4H A Yes
          02/06/17 Manheim Statesville Lease $11,700 34,345 Below Black 4H A Yes
          02/15/17 Manheim Seattle Regular $13,900 34,902 Avg White 4H A Yes
          02/13/17 Manheim Nashville Lease $13,500 35,135 Avg Black 4H A Yes
          02/15/17 Manheim Milwaukee Lease $15,600 35,927 Above Blue 4H A No
          02/08/17 Manheim San Francisco Bay Lease $13,500 36,267 Avg Black 4H A Yes
          02/02/17 Manheim Atlanta Lease $11,000 36,852 Below Silver 4H A Yes
          02/03/17 Manheim Digital Marketplace Lease $12,900 36,917 Avg 4H A Yes
          02/10/17 Manheim Pennsylvania Lease $13,000 36,981 Avg Black 4H A Yes
          02/01/17 Manheim San Antonio Lease $12,700 37,065 Avg Gray 4H A Yes
          02/06/17 Manheim San Francisco Bay Lease $14,200 37,344 Avg White 4H A Yes
          02/14/17 Manheim Baltimore-Washington Lease $9,900 37,420 Below Silver 4H A No
          02/01/17 Manheim San Francisco Bay Lease $14,000 37,710 Avg Black 4H A Yes
          02/15/17 Manheim Milwaukee Lease $14,500 37,778 Avg Black 4H A Yes
          01/31/17 Manheim New England Lease $10,000 37,804 Below Black 4H A No
          02/02/17 Manheim Texas Hobby Lease $13,300 37,831 Avg White 4H A Yes
          02/04/17 Manheim Tampa Lease $11,800 38,101 Below Red 4H A Yes
          02/08/17 Manheim San Francisco Bay Lease $14,000 38,680 Avg Silver 4H A Yes
          02/10/17 Manheim Digital Marketplace Lease $12,500 38,886 Avg 4H A Yes
          02/10/17 Manheim Nevada Regular $12,200 38,946 Avg Gray 4H A Yes
          02/01/17 Manheim San Francisco Bay Lease $14,100 38,992 Avg White 4H A Yes
          02/08/17 Manheim Nashville Lease $11,300 39,071 Below Red 4H A Yes
          02/13/17 Manheim San Francisco Bay Lease $13,100 39,595 Avg Red 4H A Yes
          02/07/17 Manheim Portland Lease $13,400 39,669 Avg Red 4H A Yes
          02/08/17 Manheim Dallas Lease $12,400 40,083 Avg Red 4H A Yes
          02/08/17 Manheim New Mexico Lease $12,400 40,215 Avg Gray 4H A Yes
          01/31/17 Manheim Baltimore-Washington Lease $10,600 40,597 Below White 4H A No
          02/15/17 Manheim New Mexico Lease $13,100 40,657 Avg White 4H A Yes
          02/15/17 Manheim Nashville Regular $13,100 40,748 Avg Silver 4H A Yes
          02/08/17 Manheim Dallas Lease $12,300 40,847 Avg White 4H A Yes
          02/01/17 Manheim San Francisco Bay Lease $13,500 41,294 Avg Gray 4H A Yes
          02/15/17 Manheim Denver Lease $13,100 41,532 Avg White 4H A Yes
          02/15/17 Manheim New Mexico Lease $13,100 41,707 Avg Gray 4H A Yes
          02/09/17 Manheim Detroit Lease $12,700 41,747 Avg Silver 4H A Yes
          02/01/17 Manheim San Francisco Bay Lease $12,500 41,931 Avg White 4H A Yes
          02/08/17 Manheim Central Florida Regular $12,500 41,938 Avg Silver 4H A Yes
          02/08/17 Manheim Nashville Lease $12,300 42,073 Avg Black 4H A Yes
          02/13/17 Manheim Orlando Lease $11,200 42,168 Below Silver 4H A Yes
          02/14/17 Manheim Georgia Regular $12,500 43,526 Avg Silver 4H A Yes
          02/15/17 Manheim Minneapolis Lease $11,200 43,689 Below Black 4H A Yes
          02/15/17 Manheim Denver Lease $12,600 43,725 Avg Black 4H A Yes
          01/31/17 Manheim Houston Lease $12,500 44,323 Avg Gray 4H A Yes
          02/07/17 Manheim Orlando Lease $12,500 44,680 Avg Gray 4H A Yes
          02/15/17 Manheim Denver Lease $12,700 44,702 Avg White 4H A Yes
          02/15/17 Manheim Minneapolis Lease $12,500 45,396 Avg White 4H A Yes
          02/15/17 Manheim New Mexico Lease $13,500 45,483 Avg White 4H A Yes
          02/01/17 Manheim Dallas Lease $13,000 45,597 Avg Silver 4H A Yes
          02/08/17 Manheim Nashville Lease $12,100 45,791 Avg Gray 4H A Yes
          02/15/17 Manheim New York Lease $12,300 46,278 Avg Silver 4H A Yes
          02/15/17 Manheim Milwaukee Lease $11,000 47,336 Below Black 4H A Yes
          02/01/17 Manheim Utah Lease $13,000 47,504 Avg Black 4H A Yes
          02/07/17 Manheim Statesville Lease $12,200 47,581 Avg White 4H A Yes
          02/13/17 Manheim Orlando Lease $12,500 47,762 Avg Silver 4H A Yes
          02/15/17 Manheim Utah Lease $12,300 48,051 Avg Gray 4H A Yes
          02/14/17 Manheim Statesville Lease $12,400 48,202 Avg White 4H A Yes
          02/14/17 Manheim Riverside Lease $12,900 48,268 Avg Black 4H A Yes
          02/13/17 Manheim Utah Lease $12,300 48,348 Avg Gray 4H A Yes
          02/07/17 Manheim Statesville Lease $12,200 48,475 Avg Gray 4H A Yes
          02/14/17 Manheim Statesville Lease $12,000 48,549 Avg Black 4H A Yes
          02/13/17 Manheim Nashville Lease $12,200 48,628 Avg Silver 4H A Yes
          02/08/17 Manheim Nashville Lease $12,200 48,642 Avg Black 4H A Yes
          02/02/17 Manheim Fredericksburg Lease $12,700 48,657 Avg Blue 4H A Yes
          02/13/17 Manheim Statesville Lease $12,100 48,754 Avg Black 4H A Yes
          02/02/17 Manheim Fredericksburg Lease $12,000 48,865 Avg White 4H A Yes
          02/13/17 Manheim Nevada Lease $12,400 48,992 Avg Silver 4H A Yes
          02/13/17 Manheim Orlando Lease $12,100 49,007 Avg Silver 4H A Yes
          02/07/17 Manheim Statesville Lease $12,100 49,493 Avg White 4H A Yes
          02/15/17 Manheim Denver Lease $12,300 49,575 Avg Silver 4H A Yes
          02/15/17 Manheim San Francisco Bay Lease $13,200 49,589 Avg Red 4H A Yes
          02/08/17 Manheim Nashville Lease $12,300 49,748 Avg Black 4H A Yes
          02/08/17 Manheim Nashville Lease $12,200 49,882 Avg Silver 4H A Yes
          02/06/17 Manheim Nevada Lease $12,500 50,150 Avg White 4H A Yes
          01/31/17 Manheim Baltimore-Washington Lease $8,600 62,234 Below Blue 4H A No

          • 0 avatar
            Chocolatedeath

            Thanks 28…I thought to myself that milage was way to low for that price.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            You’re welcome. Now is the time to buy used hybrids, but buy as new as you can. Here is the MY12 Hyundai Sonata hybrid, as you can see it really doesn’t come down much vs ’15 Prius despite age and “Hyundai”:

            02/01/17 Manheim Nashville Lease $11,500 29,752 Above Silver 4H A Yes
            02/14/17 Manheim Orlando Lease $8,500 30,808 Avg Silver 4H A No
            02/08/17 Manheim Central Florida Lease $10,400 31,090 Avg Silver 4H A Yes
            01/17/17 Manheim Orlando Lease $10,300 31,662 Avg White 4H A Yes
            01/25/17 Manheim Nashville Lease $11,000 31,880 Avg Blue 4H A Yes
            02/15/17 Manheim Central Florida Regular $9,800 33,433 Avg Gray 4H Yes
            01/25/17 Manheim New Jersey Regular $9,600 34,028 Avg Silver 4H A Yes
            01/30/17 Manheim Orlando Lease $10,400 34,037 Avg White 4H A Yes
            02/07/17 Manheim Orlando Lease $10,500 34,793 Avg White 4H A Yes
            01/20/17 Manheim Nevada Lease $10,900 35,329 Avg Silver 4H A Yes
            02/08/17 Manheim Nashville Lease $11,200 35,529 Above Blue 4H A Yes
            01/18/17 Manheim Milwaukee Lease $10,900 36,711 Avg Blue 4H A Yes
            02/07/17 Manheim Baltimore-Washington Regular $8,200 36,712 Avg Red 4H A No
            02/03/17 Manheim Nevada Lease $10,500 37,515 Avg Silver 4H A Yes
            01/20/17 Manheim Nevada Lease $11,400 37,679 Above Silver 4H A Yes
            02/01/17 Manheim Nashville Lease $11,000 40,240 Avg Blue 4H A Yes
            01/19/17 Manheim Palm Beach Lease $10,700 40,371 Avg Black 4H A Yes
            02/07/17 Manheim Ohio Lease $10,200 41,476 Avg Blue 4H A Yes
            01/31/17 Manheim Orlando Lease $10,700 42,018 Avg Black 4H A Yes
            02/01/17 Manheim Hawaii Lease $9,750 42,291 Avg White 4H A Yes
            01/25/17 Manheim Minneapolis Lease $10,500 42,575 Avg White 4H A Yes
            02/14/17 Manheim Riverside Lease $10,000 44,516 Avg Silver 4H A Yes
            01/25/17 Manheim New Jersey Lease $9,200 44,740 Avg Black 4H A Yes
            02/07/17 Manheim Ohio Lease $10,500 45,511 Avg Black 4H A Yes
            01/18/17 Manheim Nashville Lease $11,000 46,772 Avg White 4H A Yes
            02/01/17 Manheim Milwaukee Lease $10,600 47,855 Avg Silver 4H A Yes
            02/15/17 Manheim Dallas Lease $10,600 48,028 Avg White 4H A Yes
            01/17/17 Manheim Ohio Lease $10,600 48,154 Avg Silver 4H A Yes
            01/31/17 Manheim Riverside Regular $9,100 48,179 Avg Silver 4H A Yes
            02/15/17 Manheim Nashville Lease $10,300 48,636 Avg Blue 4H A Yes
            01/20/17 Manheim Nevada Lease $10,100 48,720 Avg Silver 4H A Yes
            01/31/17 Manheim Riverside Lease $10,900 49,943 Avg White 4H A Yes
            01/31/17 Manheim Riverside Lease $10,200 51,164 Avg Silver 4H A Yes
            02/07/17 Manheim Orlando Regular $10,300 51,283 Avg Silver 4H A Yes
            01/18/17 Manheim Milwaukee Lease $10,500 52,378 Avg Red 4H A Yes
            02/02/17 Manheim Chicago Lease $8,400 53,900 Avg Blue 4H A Yes
            02/03/17 Manheim Nevada Lease $10,000 53,960 Avg Silver 4H A Yes
            01/31/17 Manheim Statesville Regular $9,600 55,543 Avg Silver 4H A Yes
            02/07/17 Manheim Orlando Lease $10,000 55,798 Avg Black 4H A Yes
            01/24/17 Manheim Ohio Lease $10,300 56,523 Avg White 4H A Yes
            01/26/17 Manheim Southern California Lease $11,100 57,631 Avg Silver 4H A Yes
            02/14/17 Manheim Orlando Lease $9,500 58,060 Avg Black 4H A Yes
            01/20/17 Manheim Nevada Lease $9,900 58,247 Avg Silver 4H A Yes
            02/08/17 Manheim Seattle Lease $8,300 58,450 Avg Silver 4H A Yes
            02/13/17 Manheim Pennsylvania Lease $8,700 59,447 Avg Silver 4H A Yes
            01/26/17 Manheim Tampa Regular $8,500 61,748 Avg Gray 4H A Yes
            02/01/17 Manheim Milwaukee Lease $10,300 64,242 Avg Silver 4H A Yes
            02/15/17 Manheim Central Florida Lease $7,000 70,770 Below Silver 4H A No
            02/10/17 Manheim Nevada Lease $7,500 71,056 Below White 4H A Yes
            02/06/17 Manheim North Carolina Lease $7,900 73,712 Avg Red 4H A Yes
            01/19/17 Manheim Palm Beach Regular $8,000 73,753 Avg Silver 4H A Yes
            02/02/17 Manheim Chicago Regular $10,500 74,561 Avg White 4H A No
            01/26/17 Manheim Tampa Regular $8,200 76,270 Avg Silver 4H A Yes
            02/07/17 Manheim Riverside Lease $9,000 77,422 Avg Red 4H A Yes
            02/07/17 Manheim Riverside Regular $8,500 78,730 Avg White 4H A Yes
            01/25/17 Manheim New Mexico Lease $9,700 79,534 Avg Silver 4H A Yes
            01/23/17 Manheim Georgia Regular $8,400 79,581 Avg Black 4H A Yes
            01/27/17 Manheim Fort Lauderdale Regular $6,800 81,577 Below Black 4H A Yes
            02/09/17 Manheim Palm Beach Regular $9,700 82,362 Avg Black 4H A Yes
            01/19/17 Manheim Detroit Regular $6,600 82,998 Below Blue 4H A Yes
            01/19/17 Manheim Southern California Regular $8,100 83,732 Avg Silver 4H A Yes
            02/14/17 Manheim Riverside Regular $8,900 84,314 Avg Black 4H A Yes
            02/15/17 Manheim Utah Regular $8,500 85,627 Avg Black 4H Yes
            02/09/17 Manheim Tampa Regular $8,100 89,085 Avg Silver 4H A Yes
            01/26/17 Manheim St Pete Regular $6,600 92,202 Below Black 4H A Yes
            02/07/17 Manheim Baltimore-Washington Regular $7,300 100,654 Below Silver 4H A Yes
            02/07/17 Manheim Arena Illinois Regular $7,000 108,553 Below Gray 4H A Yes
            01/18/17 Manheim New Jersey Regular $6,000 111,044 Below Black 4H A Yes
            01/24/17 Manheim Ny Metro Skyline Regular $5,750 126,897 Below Gray 4H A Yes
            01/20/17 Manheim Nevada Lease $7,700 126,919 Below Black 4H A No
            02/09/17 Manheim Texas Hobby Lease $5,700 132,656 Below Silver 4H A Yes
            01/19/17 Manheim Atlanta Lease $5,100 136,486 Below Silver 4H A Yes
            01/31/17 Manheim Riverside Regular $3,500 179,022 Below Black 4H A Yes

          • 0 avatar
            brettc

            28-Cars-Later, what do you see for recent C-Max Hybrids?

          • 0 avatar
            Chocolatedeath

            for some odd reason I do like the CMax even though I dont particularly like any hybrids available right now. I rented one three years ago in Sanfran and it was slow but handled well. I averaged about 41mpg over the course of the week.

          • 0 avatar
            tonycd

            Chiming in with 28, I just shoppped 2010-12 Prii (the 3rd gen is 2010 through 2015). I was looking for 50k-90k miles, and most prices clustered around $10,000 to $13,000.

            This also suggests the price drops more slowly after the first couple years of aging, undoubtedly caused in part by the Prius’s reputation for long life.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            @brettc

            My son, our Most Holy Church of 3800 has been recommending the Ford C-max for some time. Perhaps next Sunday we will see you among the congregation?

            MY16 Ford C-Max Hybrid SE

            01/25/17 Manheim Detroit Lease $14,200 11 Above Gray 4H A No
            11/16/16 Manheim San Antonio Lease $119 26 Below Gray 4H A No
            11/10/16 Manheim Nashville Factory $15,200 27 Above Silver 4H A No
            02/15/17 Manheim Pittsburgh Regular $14,400 1,258 Above Blue 4H A Yes
            01/03/17 Manheim Georgia Lease $13,600 7,674 Avg Silver 4H A Yes
            11/16/16 Manheim Detroit Factory $14,700 8,309 Above Blue 4H A Yes

            @tonycd

            The trick is to get them with no miles and as new as you can. In the industry one of the great perks for owners and employees is free miles. So they buy @ 14 with 3K and then you buy it a year later for say 16 with 20K. You’re thinking oh I got a deal and well no you didn’t. You want the 3K miles model when it has those miles and you tell them f*** you I know its worth 14 and I’ll give you 15 and a pack, then walk. This sort of tactic will not work on popular models bc there are 50 suckers after you, but on something tougher to move right now? Used cars are about many things, but one the most important is managing deprecation and future equity.

          • 0 avatar
            brettc

            Thanks for the info, 28!

            I would love to get one now (and my wife wishes I would), but as I attend the church of Cheap Bastard, I’m waiting to find a gently used 2017 Titanium model with the 301A package, which will be a while since they are just trickling to dealers now as new models.

            I have until late 2018 before I have to turn in my TDI, so my plan is to drive the TDI as long as possible to maximize my ROI and then get an almost new, loaded C-Max to replace it and be free of a car payment.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            You’re welcome Brettc, and good luck.

  • avatar
    djsyndrome

    Couple of things:

    “Both the Prius and Ioniq have plug-in models on the way.” The Prius Prime has been out since December, but good luck finding one, as many dealerships are (wisely) selling them as order-only and not stocking any on the lots. The carbon fiber hatch that hindered early production isn’t helping either.

    Regarding the Prius versus Ioniq: I bought a leftover ’16 Prius full well knowing the Hyundai was imminent, mostly on the strength of our last three Toyotas all going well over 200k miles with minimal fuss. The Prius (Two model with the older NiMH battery) regularly gets over mpg without trying, which I expect to improve once we get off this awful winter gas and temperatures in the PNW warm back up. I’ll believe the Ioniq’s mpg figures after a year of Fuelly data.

  • avatar
    dmulyadi

    Wow, Korean really want to beat Japanese in everything from electronic to cars to kpop vs jpop drama even if they come a bit later in the game. 80-90s Japanese made great midsize and compacts, then 10 years later Korean improved their midsize n compact, I only think cuz they hire a great designer. They did lie about the fuel economy few years ago. So no thanks fool me once shame on u fool me twice shame on me.
    I bought my 2nd gen 3 years ago for $2.9k it had 200k. It has 252k now not bad for a 2005. Still get 48-50mpg in NYC. Still drive good n low maintenance. Nothing rattle inside or outside. Typical Japanese made car.
    Why Korean go start selling hybrid now? Why don’t they jump to long range electric? Even Toyota now put all her resources to catch up on long range electric car. Toyota tried to improve the hybrid very hard and they said it almost reached the maximum efficiency and here Korean claim they can do better with less experience in building hybrid car. I just don’t buy it. Sorry I don’t believe in new untested products. Unlike Toyota hybrids that have been in the market for so long they must have learn their mistake n improved it further. That’s why Korean try to beat Japanese using the I sell u cheaper than them aka dumping. As long they win something.

    • 0 avatar
      SELECTIVE_KNOWLEDGE_MAN

      You don’t have to buy it. Look outside of your country where the Ioniq already sells and se that it doesn’t match Toyota in fuel efficiency.

      However. It seems to be a good start. Like the second gen Insight.

    • 0 avatar
      bd2

      Um, Hyundai (and Kia) have been doing hybrids for some time now.

      The Ioniq (and Niro) in its hybrid format is basically the 3rd gen hybrid powertrain for H/K.

      And H/K were committed to EVs before Toyota (Toyota had long shunned EVs in favor of the hybrid, but just recently reversed course; as they had also done with turbo-charging) – which is why they developed the platform underpinning the Ioniq and Niro to be compatible with a hybrid, PHEV and EV powertrains from the start.

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