By on February 17, 2017

opel-cascada-4

What’s the selling price for a huge automaker’s entire European operations? $2 billion, apparently — one billion in cash and another billion in gained liabilities.

That’s the valuation that General Motors and PSA Group are discussing as the American automaker attempts to unload its Opel and Vauxhall divisions, Bloomberg reports.

Sources close to the discussions claim an agreement could be reached as soon as next Thursday. That’s when PSA releases its 2016 earnings report.

However, there’s no shortage of sticking points that could sink the deal. The sources claim issues like pension liabilities, brand value and savings potential have yet to be hammered out.

Germany was shocked to learn of GM’s plans earlier this week, with politicians joining Opel’s works council and union in expressing concern — bordering on outrage — over the American company’s failure to consult them. The sources claim that GM will need to walk a financial tightrope. On one side, the price has to be low enough for PSA to shake hands, but there also needs to be cost savings that Germany, Britain and the unions can agree on. A tall order.

Neither country wants to see any if the assembly plants close, nor lose any of its workforce. Three Opel plants are located in Germany, while Britain hosts two Vauxhall plants.

While an acquisition of Opel/Vauxhall by PSA would help the companies seize a greater European market share while sharing technology, some products — and the factories in which they’re built — might not have a long lifespan.

“We are prepared to conduct talks with PSA in the case of an acquisition openly and in a constructive manner and to bring those talks to a conclusion as soon as possible,” said Wolfgang Schaefer-Klug, Opel’s top labor representative, said in a statement today.

“Our objective must be to seize the existing opportunities to safeguard employment and sites to create a successful Opel/Vauxhall.”

What the sell-off means for Buick, which relies heavily on Opel for its U.S. lineup, is up for debate. TTAC, of course, has a few ideas.

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90 Comments on “General Motors Wants $2 Billion For Opel/Vauxhall: Report...”


  • avatar
    PrincipalDan

    A billion here, a billion there, soon you’re talking real money.

    • 0 avatar
      SCE to AUX

      Spoken (or not) in the 1960’s when a billion dollars meant something. Now it’s only worth 1/7 of that.

      https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Everett_Dirksen

      • 0 avatar
        Lorenzo

        Inflation is even discounting (mis)quotes! The BLS inflation calculator pegs the current value of $1 billion in 1964 at $7.83 billion. 1964 was the last year our dimes and quarters were made of 90% silver, and I just got a silver dime in change. At today’s silver prices, the silver in a dime is now worth $1.30 – thirteen times face value! Now I understand why our aircraft carriers cost $10 billion – minus the aircraft.

    • 0 avatar
      mcs

      For a comparison, there are NFL teams valued at over 3 billion.

  • avatar
    SCE to AUX

    $2 billion seems cheap, and I still don’t see how it helps PSA’s bottom line improve.

    • 0 avatar
      RobertRyan

      @SCE to AUX
      It will when they become the 2nd largest producer in Europe.

      • 0 avatar
        SCE to AUX

        Please explain how more volume of disparate models helps improve profitability.

        I understand economies of scale, but that doesn’t apply when your products are all unique.

        “Streamlining” won’t do it, either, by laying off redundant receptionists and accountants.

      • 0 avatar
        Eyeflyistheeye

        Do you even know why GM is selling Opel? Since I’m convinced you and that wanker compatriot of yours just come here to bash on any person or company related to America, I’ll help you out.

        The entire reason GM is selling them is because they’ve ostensibly stopped chasing after volume and trying to reclaim/defend, depending on the year, being the largest car manufacturer on Earth, which has been a poisoned chalice to everyone who’s held the title including themselves along with VW and Toyota.

        Pug tried the same thing with mixed success when they bought Chrysler Europe (Rootes).

        • 0 avatar
          SCE to AUX

          “poisoned chalice” = well-said, eye

          Buying dud car mfrs may make oneself bigger, but not better. FCA is a perfect example of a decades-long history of acquisitions that never paid off.

        • 0 avatar
          Middle-Aged Miata Man

          I’m going to try to incorporate “wanker compatriot” into daily conversation. Shouldn’t be difficult under the Trump administration.

        • 0 avatar
          Big Al from Oz

          Eye,
          I really do consider your wanker comment as unnecessary.

          I do believe my views are wildly different than RobertRyan.

          It appears some who comment on this site, like yourself limit your potential by being one eyed with your views on the US industry.

          Like the current POTUS you live in a different world. The world of alternative facts.

          I’m consistent with my views across borders. Nationalistic views that you exhibit (with others) distorts reality.

          I even support the demise of vehicle manufacturing in Australia.

          This site is very US centric, so expect much more from me regarding the US auto market.

          Like your POTUS you only want to hear warm sweet comments regarding the US market.

          The TRUTH is the global auto industry is a dog eat dog business. The US build consumer appliances with many overt and hidden forms of protection. I will highlight this at every oppotune instant.

          All you see is chaos, complete chaos, a mess, a real mess;)

          • 0 avatar
            Big Al From 'Murica

            Because it is an effing US based site. Nobody comes to Australia and says your football is stupid and your beer tastes like horse piss.

          • 0 avatar
            Big Al From 'Murica

            Because it is an effing US based site. Nobody comes to Australia and says your football is stupid and your beer tastes like horse urine

          • 0 avatar
            RobertRyan

            Little Troll, we upsetting you.?

          • 0 avatar
            DenverMike

            @BAFO – No one here is claiming domestic automakers, including Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Mazda, BMW, Meredes, Subaru, VW, Mitsu, and others, aren’t or haven’t been “protected” from imports to some small degree.

            This may change soon, and it could get ugliest for GM, Ram and Toyota, since they build pickups in Mexico by the hundreds of thousands!

            Except when it comes to tariffs and technical barriers, the US car market has absolutely been the friendliest and most welcoming (with the most accepting/welcoming consumers, buyers) to import OEMs, than any other *meaningful* car market on the frickin’ planet!

            Get over yourself, yourselves. Sorry your domestic, OZ automakers didn’t have a stinkin’ chance once ridiculous OZ tariffs were lifted, once up to 59% tariff!!!

        • 0 avatar
          RobertRyan

          @Eyeflyistheeye
          Inferiority complex seems to be strange defence. GM is selling Opel and Vauxhall, because they cannot get both operations to become profitable. PSA and probably others who work at Opel/ Vauxhall think that it would not be too difficult to do.
          Jaguar/ Land Rover boomed after being bought from from Ford by TATA, most on this blog thought it was a distterous.move. Short memories

          • 0 avatar
            Big Al From 'Murica

            That would be a win win as Ford is doing fine without them as well.

          • 0 avatar
            SCE to AUX

            @RobertRyan: Your example of JLR/Ford/TATA is a good one. JLR has also benefited from a much-improved product mix, with decreasing Ford content.

          • 0 avatar
            Big Al from Oz

            RobertRyan,
            The changes at JLR was due to management, structural and cultural changes.

            Judging how Tavares has changed PSA, I do believe he’ll change Opel and Vauxhall.

            This is what worries the German auto workers and left leaning politicans.

            I’d bet Tavares would cut a deal with Germans if tax dollars were thrown in PSA direction.

  • avatar
    JimZ

    Hey Sergio? Ohhhh Sergioooo!

  • avatar
    tomLU86

    $2 billion for all those physical and human assets. For a company that has been making autos for 100 years, many good ones.

    Even today. I drove a Opel Astra diesel last summer, and it is 5x better than the Cruze I can buy here.

    My Buick Regal (aka Opel Insignia) is a great driving car–I can’t help but think how much better it would be if the retards running GM offered the base Regal (which is far from base) with a no charge manual transmission.

    Only $2b for a car company. Maybe Bob Lutz can round up that kind of capital and buy it, and make it great again. Then again, he’s too old.

    Too bad.

    • 0 avatar
      RobertRyan

      @tomLU86
      Opel is actually older than GM itself and Vauxhall maybe similar. It is a bargain for PSA, Mary Barra does not have a clue and is desperate to keep the GM ship afloat

      • 0 avatar
        dash riprock

        Are you saying GM is sinking?

      • 0 avatar
        Eyeflyistheeye

        Just because you’re still butthurt about losing Holden doesn’t entitle you to your own facts.

        GM has finally stopped chasing volume (too late, IMHO) and PSA is chasing volume. This is no different than them acquiring Rootes back in the 1980s.

        • 0 avatar
          dash riprock

          I do not he thinks long or deep enough to even form his own facts.

        • 0 avatar
          RobertRyan

          @Eyeflyistheeye
          GM has stopped chasing volume / market position and large profits. It is 3rd and will become 4th Globally

          • 0 avatar
            dash riprock

            And yet GM’s profits are growing. Deep analysis RR

          • 0 avatar
            RobertRyan

            @dash riprock
            As profits for this year have gone slightly up, but it’s Global ranking has plummeted. Yes my analysis is spot on

          • 0 avatar
            dash riprock

            Toyota net income down
            Ford net income down
            Honda net income down
            VW net income down

            Spot on analysis on your part.

          • 0 avatar
            RobertRyan

            @dash riprock
            GM has plummeted, as a Global manufacturer, it has gone into liquidation before,the others certainly have not..
            VW has become the new Global No 1, Toyota No.2 Nissan has now passed GM. Ford languishes in 7th.
            Pretty good analysis on my part

          • 0 avatar
            dash riprock

            What analysis? Please tell me how this deal, that none of us have any idea of the final details if it does go ahead, will negatively affect GM’s profits?

            Define your “analysis”.

          • 0 avatar
            RobertRyan

            Nice try little troll, try another persona.

          • 0 avatar
            dash riprock

            Trolls make inflammatory statements without backing them up with any significant logic.

            Still waiting for your analysis on why GM has given up on making big profits.

          • 0 avatar
            DenverMike

            WARNING..: Unlike BAFO, he WILL “back it up”. But his “analysis” will make your brain hurt, if you try to pick through it, make sense of it. I’d rather pick through a pile of kangaroo sh!t.

            At least BAFO just scampers off into the woods.

          • 0 avatar
            RobertRyan

            @dash rip rock
            “Trolls make inflammatory statements without backing them up with any significant logic.”
            Your other persona, did just that

          • 0 avatar
            dash riprock

            No other persona.

            And you no attempt at explaining your “analysis” still?

    • 0 avatar
      Big Al from Oz

      TomLU86,
      Holden has dropped the Cruze and the Astra (Opel) is the replacement.

      Even though the Cruze is a cheaper vehicle to manufacture the Astra has better vehicle dynamics and performance.

    • 0 avatar
      Big Al From 'Murica

      Wat the funk ever. I just spent a month with a Corsa and the only thing it was superior to was a case of clymadia.

      • 0 avatar
        Big Al from Oz

        L’il Al,
        Corsa vs Cruze vs Astra.

        I don’t know what drugs you are smoking. The Corsa is not in the same segment as a Cruze.

        Chevy Spark would be very close a comparison to the Corsa. Are you generating fake news or alternative facts?

  • avatar
    heavy handle

    They say 2 billion, but nobody ever buys a GM product for list. GM needs to put some cash on the hood, move the metal.
    I wouldn’t even consider it at a dime over invoice, and they’d better include Simonizing and an extended warranty.

    Little hint for PSA: secure your own financing in advance. Don’t take GM’s financing unless they beat your rate by a significant amount.

  • avatar
    orick

    Now why would PSA want to buy a money losing company when they are not doing so great and had to take government bailout money?

    The easiest job I ever had was working for my highschool library. Minimum wage for keeping the books organized and sooth my OCD. At end of the school term, the librarian tells me to order whatever new books I want as long as I keep under $1000. I said maybe we don’t need that many books since our shelf space was very full. He told me thats the budget he was given. So we better spend it or lose it. And further more, if we don’t spend it, the budget would be cut the next term since we don’t seem to need that much. That’s how I learned about stupidity and waste in public sector.

    My first professional job was at a manufacturing company where near end of fiscal year, we were told to ship anything and everything possible out of the door and get it on the books. This includes shipping out unfinished products, defective products or shipments customer specifically said to not ship for another month. All in the effort to book record revenues for the fiscal year so the executives can give themselves record bonuses. That’s how I learned about stupidity and waste in the private sector.

    So this PSA buying Opel business looks like the combination of the best of both worlds. PSA had bailout money and need to spend it before the government takes it back. The executives want to add a whole lot sales to the book so they can have record revenue and record bonuses. They probably don’t care which company they but and Opel just happens to be on the market. There you go.

    It kinda makes me wonder how the American automakers all had great comeback after getting bailout money.

    • 0 avatar
      RobertRyan

      @Orick,
      They are PSA are doing quite well. They were hampered by not having many export markets, those are starting to appear.

    • 0 avatar
      HotPotato

      Pretty sure the library’s mandate was to offer up-to-date books for research and reading, not keep obsolete ones instead because the shelves are already full, but point taken. :-)

      Buying Opel takes a competitor off the market. Keep producing current Opels for a while, then offer the next generation of PSA products with or without an Opel badge, then later shut down the Opel brand and convert existing Opel dealers to PSA dealers. Or hell, just keep it…VW seems to have no problem selling basically the same damn vehicle as a Skoda, SEAT, VW, Audi, and if it’s an SUV, Porsche.

  • avatar
    jpolicke

    How important is it really to get the governments and unions to approve the deal? GM could simply announce that as of a certain date the company is out of business, turn out the lights and sell assets to anyone interested. You can’t compel someone to continue to operate at a loss. Especially when they’re not even headquartered in your country.

    • 0 avatar
      heavy handle

      GM could choose not to honor any contract or agreement they have signed in Europe: suppliers, dealers, governments, unions. Only trouble is, they would be stuck in litigation for the next 40 years, costing them billions.

      The loss of reputation would also ensure that they never again get favorable terms from any government or supplier, also costing them billions. Don’t forget that they deal with the same suppliers in China and the US as they do in Europe.

      If they sell, they get to keep some money. It’s in their best interest that everybody walk away from this reasonably happy.

  • avatar
    heavy handle

    How long before GM tries to pawn-off their US car business? They only make money on trucks, so why even have a Buick and Chevy in the US?

    FCA would obviously be interested, as would PSA.

    • 0 avatar

      GM does have the Corvette and a few Cadillac’s that are decent. They can certainly get rid of the rest of their rubbish cars with no problem.

      Booooooooooooooooooo!! GM blows!!

      • 0 avatar
        bd2

        Eh, by all accounts, the Impala is very good, as is the new Malibu (which GM finally got right, aside from maybe the styling).

        While $$-losing propositions right now, GM has done a good job with the power-trains for the 2G Volt and Bolt (which should pay off down the road).

        Frankly, not surprised that GM wants to dump Opel/Vauxhall.

        Even if things have improved (since the days Opel/Vauxhall was hemorrhaging $$), the outlook in terms of ROI isn’t great.

        Due to the spewing of harmful particulates, diesels are on their way out in Europe (at least in the urban centers) – we might yet see more modest Chevrolet comeback in Europe with the Voltec powertrain and EVs.

        • 0 avatar
          RobertRyan

          @bd2
          “diesels are on their way out in Europe (at least in the urban centers) – we might yet see more modest Chevrolet comeback in Europe with the Voltec powertrain and EVs.”

          Neither,Diesel and Gas engined vehicles are being fined a specific amount a day in Urban Centres

          • 0 avatar
            bd2

            Stated that they are on their way out – not that they already are.

            UK health professionals are calling for a ban on diesels in London.

            Mayor Khan has already stated that he wants to ban diesel buses by 2018.

            The mayors of Paris, Madrid and Athens have pledged to ban diesels by 2025.

          • 0 avatar
            RobertRyan

            @bd2
            This is really what he wants and it includes all ICE vehicles
            “London to introduce pollution tax

            London authorities will soon charge owners of the most polluting cars almost $35 a day to enter the city’s ‘congestion zone’, it has been announced.

            The new ‘pollution charge’, or ‘T-Charge’, has been introduced by London mayor Sadiq Khan, and will come into effect from this October.

            Khan says the reason for the new T-Charge, ehich is set to apply Monday to Friday between the hours of 7:00am and 6:00pm, is to dramatically cut pollution for residents and workers in the capital.

            “London authorities have specifically targeted cars that were London to introduce pollution tax

            London authorities will soon charge owners of the most polluting cars almost $35 a day to enter the city’s ‘congestion zone’, it has been announced.

            The new ‘pollution charge’, or ‘T-Charge’, has been introduced by London mayor Sadiq Khan, and will come into effect from this October.

            Khan says the reason for the new T-Charge, ehich is set to apply Monday to Friday between the hours of 7:00am and 6:00pm, is to dramatically cut pollution for residents and workers in the capital.

            London authorities have specifically targeted cars that REGISTERED before 2006 or DO NOT MEET EURO 4 emission regulations.

            Currently, vehicles entering the city centre’s ‘Congestion Zone’ are already required to pay £11.50 ($A19) per day but, from October, drivers of older vehicles will be forced to pay the new T-Charge that increases the total fee to £21.50 ($A35).

            London, like many other European capitals, has consistently failed to meet mandatory EU limits for air quality.

            According to the British university, King’s College London, more than 9500 Londoners die prematurely each year because of exposure to air pollution.

            The new T-Charge is thought to affect more than 10,000 vehicles that drive into the city every day.

            Commenting on introducing the new T-Charge, Kahn said: “It’s staggering how we live in a city where the air is so toxic that many of our children are growing up with lung problems. If we don’t make drastic changes now we won’t be protecting the health of our families in the future”.

            As well as the new T-Charge, the London mayor is also now proposing introducing an Ultra-Low Emissions Zone a year earlier than planned in 2019. This would see all vehicles — including vans, trucks and buses which fail to meet even stricter emissions criteria — charged £12.50 ($A20) per day.

            As well as extending the zone, the mayor is also considering a diesel scrappage scheme.

            And on top of paying more to enter London, some of the city’s councils are also charging British drivers more to park if you drive a polluting vehicler registered BEFORE 2006 or DO NOT MEET Euro 4 emission regulations.”

            Currently, vehicles entering the city centre’s ‘Congestion Zone’ are already required to pay £11.50 ($A19) per day but, from October, drivers of older vehicles will be forced to pay the new T-Charge that increases the total fee to £21.50 ($A35).

            London, like many other European capitals, has consistently failed to meet mandatory EU limits for air quality.

            According to the British university, King’s College London, more than 9500 Londoners die prematurely each year because of exposure to air pollution.

            The new T-Charge is thought to affect more than 10,000 vehicles that drive into the city every day.

            Commenting on introducing the new T-Charge, Kahn said: “It’s staggering how we live in a city where the air is so toxic that many of our children are growing up with lung problems. If we don’t make drastic changes now we won’t be protecting the health of our families in the future”.

            As well as the new T-Charge, the London mayor is also now proposing introducing an Ultra-Low Emissions Zone a year earlier than planned in 2019. This would see all vehicles — including vans, trucks and buses which fail to meet even stricter emissions criteria — charged £12.50 ($A20) per day.

            As well as extending the zone, the mayor is also considering a diesel scrappage scheme.

            And on top of paying more to enter London, some of the city’s councils are also charging British drivers more to park if you drive a polluting vehicle.”

          • 0 avatar
            HotPotato

            The pollution problem is worst in urban centers, but Europe in general and the U.K. in particular is realizing that yes, going to diesel reduced CO2 emissions and foreign oil dependence, but it also increased particulate pollution, smog formation, and asthma rates, since even the “non-cheating” cars emit 4 times their advertised emissions in the real world. Simply going back to gasoline isn’t necessarily a solution since today’s GDI and small displacement turbo gas engines have much the same problem, offering high fuel economy but higher than advertised emissions in real-world use.

            Europe fell way behind in hybridization going down the blind alley of diesel, but perhaps – like Africa skipping wired phones and jumping directly to cell phones — they can skip ahead to the next generation and push pure-electric vehicles forward. It was going to be really interesting seeing how the Opel Ampera-e did…with loads of pre-orders in Norway already, I wonder how they will handle that car (license it for now?)

          • 0 avatar
            DenverMike

            @HotPotato – Thanks for the insights on Europe’s emissions troubles, and their diesel/particulates dilemma. It’s real difficult to get an honest view.

            Sure we can look up the data/facts, but it’s much better to hear it from someone that’s actually there, in the thick of it, and of course “informed”, but *without* the anti-US bias, superiority complex, twisted facts, etc, by those that speak the loudest here (on the topic).

          • 0 avatar
            RobertRyan

            @HotPotato
            ” Simply going back to gasoline isn’t necessarily a solution since today’s GDI and small displacement turbo gas engines have much the same problem, offering high fuel economy, but higher than advertised particulates in real time use.”

            There is no easy fix, all types of power have their drawbacks.
            Petrol/ Gas or more the case the modern petrol engine is more of an issue than diesel as there is a lot more of them being used, INEFFIENCTLY, crawling along in traffic . Major problem in the US, in cities like LA, which has horrendous pollution issues. China has similar issues with heavy traffic and even worse pollution.

          • 0 avatar
            bd2

            No doubt there are an increasing # of cities, towns and municipalities in Europe which want to eventually ban all ICE powered vehicles (in the mean-time, adding surcharges to discourage driving of ICE vehicles.).

            But in the near to medium short-term, petrol engines will have a longer staying power since it is petrol engines which are tied to hybrids/PHEVs – which will increasingly take the place of diesels (with EVs lagging behind until battery tech improves and the cost goes down).

    • 0 avatar
      RobertRyan

      @heavy handle
      Under Barra, they will be offering to another Corporation,an offer they cannot refuse.
      Cars will cease to exist at GM

  • avatar
    stingray65

    Perhaps the most important issue arising from the proposed sale is that it means GM management has given up on ever regaining the title of the world’s largest vehicle manufacturer, a position they held from 1931 when they took over from Ford, to 2009 when they were overtaken by Toyota.

    • 0 avatar
      Truckducken

      Good. This title is not only without value, it drives stupid decisions.

      • 0 avatar
        ghostwhowalksnz

        20 years ago total Opel/Vauxhall volume was 1.5-1.6 mill per year. Just a few years back after the GFC it was around 840k. Its climbing back up to just under 1 mill now. The Brits went from a 1/4 of the volume to 1/3 as their economy recovered more quickly than the rest of Europe. the market just isnt growing fast enough and the competition is brutal and margins low on the mostly small cars they make.
        Its only worth what it is and the Wall St guy who came into GM and is now President plus Chairman of the Opel board doesnt have any grandiose ideas about the business. Im not sure why the Germans especially are all worked up, it goes from one foreign owner to another.

    • 0 avatar
      OldManPants

      “a position they held from 1931 when they took over from Ford, to 2009”

      35 years of your only foreign competitors rebuilding from smoking craters may have encouraged unrealistic expectations.

    • 0 avatar
      Big Al from Oz

      stingray65,
      The world has changed since 31.

      The US used to be 50%+ of the world market. Now >80% of the world market is not the US.

      So it was much easier for GM to be the largest, now there is more competition, but lots of the competition produce as good or better product that is on offer from GM.

    • 0 avatar
      RobertRyan

      @stingray65
      GM will become a more US orientated and smaller company. Profits will also shrink in proportion.

  • avatar
    Big Al from Oz

    What would be funny is PSA-Opel start selling lots of Opels in Asia, especially China.

  • avatar
    28-Cars-Later

    Pocket change.

  • avatar
    brn

    GM want to “one up” Ford and build TWO wind tunnels.

  • avatar
    Joss

    PSA just bought their way into India with Hindustan. Now it’s all about gaining more market share…

  • avatar

    GM’s new US deadwatch market share tumble now stands at 15% by 2020. They have already lost the international market share race.

    What a disgrace!

    GM blows….

  • avatar
    scwmcan

    Everyone seems to think that this means GM is pulling out of the European market. This news comes on the heels of the ratification of the Canada EU free trade agreement, is it a coincidence? Maybe there is more going on than we know.

  • avatar

    2 Billion seems reasonable, but not if a lot of jobs and capacity can’t be axed, from a cost-cutting viewpoint. Which is not agreeable to the unions. It would be less costly for PSA just to let it go, and wait for GM to euthanize sort of Opel. Perhaps establish a new joint venture concerning electric cars. There’s just too much capacity, too many car brands, too many cars produced. Buying Opel now might profit competitor Renault primarily.

    • 0 avatar
      RobertRyan

      @ Voyager
      Replace Opel with Chevrolet and see how it sounds. Not many would be happy about Chevrolet being ” euthanised” in the US except maybe Ford and FCA
      Many outside NA have heard of Opel, but may scratch their head when you talk of Chevrolet

  • avatar
    Asdf

    PSA is part-owned by Chinese automaker Dongfeng. Don’t be surprised to see Dongfeng taking a bigger stake in PSA following an Opel purchase. Then Peugeot, Citroën, DS and Opel will eventually all end up as Chinese brands, like Volvo.

    • 0 avatar
      Big Al from Oz

      Asdf,
      It’s inevitable that China will become home to largest auto manufacturers. I don’t believe China will own PSA-Opel.

      China is a huge market and will only get bigger. In a couple of decades there will be less manufacturers due to rationalisation and a huge market.

      The most successful manufacturers will be the global operaters. PSA and Opel will not fail as FCA, but PSA-Opel will find it harder to be accepted as easily and globally as VAG, BMW and MB.

      Building up PSA and Opel as brand names will be a little more challenging.

      • 0 avatar
        RobertRyan

        @Big Al from Oz
        China is still a 3rd world producer. It’s vehicles are still built to the standards of the Chinese population not to a 1st world audience.
        Thailand’s ” transplants ” still produce vastly better quality.

  • avatar
    Rrrobert

    Then they can focus on bringing Pontiac back… starting with the Firebird!

    • 0 avatar
      Lorenzo

      Forget it, Pontiac is dead. But the Oldsmobile Aurora…

      • 0 avatar
        Rrrobert

        No love for Pontiac, OR! the Firebird?! I would love to see Pontiac AND! Oldsmobile comeback. GM never – EVER! – should have created Saturn, bought SAAB, OR! Hummer. I wish they had continued to focus on their core brands, then maybe we’d still have BOTH! the Firebird and the Aurora around, as well as the rest of their line-up?! I will always hope for a Pontiac Firebird worthy of the name… I hope we both get our wish; now, how ’bout a Toronado worthy of the name?! Take care!

  • avatar
    Jeff S

    I can understand the benefit to GM in selling Opel and Vauxhall, get rid of a cash bleeding division and dealing with the German unions. For PSA it gives them more capacity to expand and eventually PSA can eliminate the German/British factories and eliminate the Opel and Vauxhall names. The lower cost Eastern European factories offer that extra capacity in the meantime the existing German and British factory capacity can be used. The growth for GM is in Asia and as others have stated GM will still have a presence in Europe although it will be less. Eventually even PSA will no longer be European but become more global and probably owned by the Chinese. As others have stated the auto manufacturing business has become more competitive and more cost driven.

  • avatar
    RobertRyan

    @Jeff S
    Getting rid of Vauxhall/ Opel,brands that are older than GM itself would not be a bright move. GM’s only bright spot is China,not Asia as the rest of Asia is. ” owned” by the Japanese / Korean manufacturers..
    Lower cost Eastern European countries are full on building product for VW, Korean and Japanese brands

  • avatar
    Jeff S

    @Robert Ryan–Outside of Europe Opel and Vauxhall don’t have much meaning and eventually will fade away. Buick use to sell small Opels at their US dealerships in the 60’s and 70’s but outside of that most outside of Europe would not be as familiar with Opel as they would Fiat and Renault. Eventually Opel and Vauxhall will be eliminated but not for a number of years since there is still some value in their names is Europe. Europe seems to be on the path to eliminate most ICE vehicles. Why would PSA not use any existing Opel plants in Eastern Europe? Wouldn’t the labor still be less than in Germany? Over the long run what incentive would PSA have to keep Opel’s German plants open unless they are forced to and then PSA would probably want to unload Opel themselves. GM has many reasons for unloading Opel and one of the main reasons would be to eliminate the need to deal with the expensive union German labor and the continued threat of strikes.

    China is the biggest market but you also need to remember Thailand, Vietnam, and any Asian country not including Japan which is a mature market that is very closed and with an aging population. You seem to forget that it is not just the Japanese manufacturers that have plants in Thailand but it is GM and Ford as well and GM and Ford also sell in Asia and Australia. Also are you going to discount the growth in India?

  • avatar
    RobertRyan

    @Jeff S.
    ” Outside of Europe” that is the point inside Europe, they mean a lot.. They would sell Opels not PSA products.
    Europe is NOT on the path to eliminate most ICE vehicles, only restricting them in places like Paris/ London.
    Eliminating Vauxhall and Opel,would be the equivalent of getting rid of Chevrolet/ GMC in the US and renaming the division ” GM”.
    Jeff they are selling brands not just vehicles, that is why Opel and Vauxhall are important as name plates
    Japanese are the main owners of the plants in Thailand. Ford/ GM have a very small prescence.
    Yes definitely discount India, it is more 4th world in it’s market structure

  • avatar
    Jeff S

    I can see PSA rebadging some PSA products as Opels and Vauxhalls and vice versa. Just because Japan has main ownership of plants in Thailand doesn’t mean that Ford and GM plants are not important to Asia. Correct me but I thought the Global Ranger and Global Colorado that is sold in Australia is made in Thailand. Unless I misunderstood some of the articles I have read Ford and GM are going to discontinue production of vehicles in Australia. It seems that Thailand is the place to make trucks for the Japanese and American corporations if they are selling them in Asia. I would find it hard to believe that Thailand is not important to Ford and GM. The Colorado and Ranger do not sell in the same volume as the Hilux but I would find it hard to believe that they are not important to both GM and Ford. If they are that insignificant then why don’t GM and Ford discontinue them. Seems like a waste valuable resources to make these trucks in Thailand if that are not selling and not making a profit. Am I missing something from GM and Ford producing vehicles in Asian outside of the ones they make in China?

    Do you believe it makes economic sense over the long run to keep the German plants? Unless PSA is allowed to use more automation in the German plants and reduce the workforce it doesn’t make a lot of sense in the long run. I believe that Ford, GM, and FCA will spend more money on increasing automation in their US plants as a result of President Trump. More manufacturing plants will remain in the US but more will require less UAW workers.

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