By on January 18, 2017

Pontiac G8 GT at Ulurau 2

Cory writes:

My 2009 Pontiac G8 GT is finally getting to the mileage where a replacement may soon be needed. It has 103,000 miles on the odometer but still runs fine and has not been abused. Just the random aging that comes with a high mileage car that I’d prefer not to deal with (headliner coming down, seats lacking support, ride getting softer, leather on steering wheel coming off, side mirror motors not working, dents and dings). I’d love to go the SS route, but can’t support the price tag. I need four doors and like larger vehicles — new Chevy Malibu Hybrid, new Mazda 6, Acura TLX, used Volvo S60 (doesn’t hold resale), used Maxima (ditto)?

I know, none will be as fun as the G8 (I love it), but it’s time to update.

Ugh, this letter depresses me. Why? Read on.

For those of you who don’t know, I used to own a 2009 Pontiac G8. It should have been a great car — 6.0 liter V8 engine, 361 horsepower and 385 lb-ft of torque, and a huge cabin and trunk. Aggressively styled, and gorgeous in White Hot paint with 19-inch rims, the G8 always got a second or even third look from passersby.

And it was a performer, too. I got FTD at a rainy autocross with it once in completely stock trim against prepped Corvettes and S2000s — I’m still convinced that a national F Stock trophy was possible with it.

So why didn’t I keep it? Because the fucking thing broke all the time. I had a cylinder go down. The camshaft broke. Lower control arms bent like they were made from Twizzlers. Parts were nearly impossible to get, often taking a month or more to make their way across the ocean from Australia.

And yet I’m glad that I got rid of it before even more the typical GM quality control reared its ugly head. Headliner coming down? Leather wearing off the wheel? Mirrors not working? FFS, GM! This is a seven-year-old car. At seven years of age, an Accord or Camry is just entering its prime — just ask any TTAC commenter! And yet this poor man is still dreaming of buying a Chevrolet SS. The LS meth is strong, apparently.

After reading what you want from your car, none of the cars on your list make much sense. All of them are going to be considerably slower than your G8, not just in a straight line but around any amount of turns. And you don’t seem to have been particularly bothered by the interior quality of the G8 or the low level of tech. There’s only one right answer.

What you want, sir, is a Dodge Charger R/T. Similar power numbers to your G8, and adjusting for inflation, an R/T Hemi is less money than any G8 GT ever was. And, if you can find one, Dodge stores are offering 20 percent off of 2016 models and up to $3,000 bonus cash. That could make your actual transaction price around $25,000 for a V8-powered, rear-wheel drive, American sedan — and this one is brand new.

To me, it’s a no-brainer. Let’s see if the B&B agrees.

Bark M. would love to recommend that everybody own a V8-powered car at one point in his/her life. Preferably twice. Send him your emails at [email protected] or follow him on the Twitters and InstaFaceChat.

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174 Comments on “Ask Bark Brief: What’s as Great as a G8?...”


  • avatar
    NoID

    Bark, your response is spot on.

    If Cory insists on getting a car that falls into the midsize category (as all the cars he listed are) I think the Ford Fusion Sport AWD makes the most sense. 325 horsepower to all four wheels is never a bad call.

    • 0 avatar
      SSJeep

      I cant think of a better car than the Hemi Charger. ~400hp for 25k and comfortable? It may well be my next toy car.

      I like the Fusion Sport as well, but it is a very different animal and doesnt really compare with the original G8…

    • 0 avatar
      spaceme1117

      No your response is bullshit. All of those issues with his G8 are common for any car at 100,000 miles. What he should have said is keep the car and fix those minor issues. Maybe in the future do a DOD delete to get rid of the weak link in the engine.

      • 0 avatar
        Flipper35

        I have had 4 cars (one was a GM even!) with over 150k miles and none had those problems. I know many other people with high mileage cars and few issues. The only ones with issues were transmissions.

  • avatar
    PrincipalDan

    Headliner coming down?

    What is this GM? 1985?

    I think Bark is right. Hemi R/T Charger

    • 0 avatar
      Land Ark

      I had to replace the headliner of my ’06 GTO last year. I first noticed it sagging about 3 years ago and it finally got to the point where I was too embarrassed to put it off anymore when it started touching my head.

      Unlike my 1990 Sunbird which also suffered the same affliction, I decided not to just staple it back up and have it done properly.

      • 0 avatar
        PrincipalDan

        The Family’s 1982 Chevy Celebrity had the beginnings of a sagging headliner by 1992 when it became mine. When my sister started to drive it in 1996 (as her first car) she put it back up with upholstery tacks. Made for a very classy pillowed affect.

        • 0 avatar
          Roberto Esponja

          My dad worked at a GM dealership during the entire 1980’s decade. Yes, it was a very depressing time to be working at a GM dealership. I do not recall a single GM model which did not suffer of eventually sagging headliners.

          • 0 avatar
            TonyJZX

            The above car is about typical for a 2009 160,000km Commodore. You will have to spend a bit of money on cosmetics and suspension and drivetrain as this car is just 3yrs since inception. Probably still has the early car blues.

            These cars represent good buying here. For a several thousand you can get a 4,000lb 6.0 cruiser that does close to 375hp.

            Be that as it may, it has the typical GM blues. I do not like the transmission at all. The GM 6L60 is not good at all but at least its not the Ford ZF.

            Still, a late VE manual SS V8 isnt a bad thing as long as you keep up with cosmetics etc.

  • avatar
    JimZ

    “Headliner coming down?”

    I’ve not seen this on any reasonably modern car in the US, even GM. that’s the kind of thing we left behind in the ’80s.

    Apparently Australia didn’t get that message.

    • 0 avatar
      LS1Fan

      Or Bavaria.

      Yup I’ve seen a BMW with sagging headliner.

    • 0 avatar
      dukeisduke

      Do they still use a thin layer of foam between the base material (Masonite?) and the cloth? That always seemed to be the weak link in the GM headliners. The foam breaks down after a while, and then the cloth drops away from the base material. A lot of cars (like Toyotas) simply glue the cloth directly to the base material, and don’t have this problem.

    • 0 avatar
      Advance_92

      “I’ve not seen this on any reasonably modern car in the US, even GM. that’s the kind of thing we left behind in the ’80s.”

      Australia’s domestic market didn’t fail because they were keeping up.

    • 0 avatar
      quaquaqua

      This problem was in no way solved in the 80s. First, it started happening to my ’94 Cavalier (shut up, I was in high school) by 2000 at the very latest. And also, I just saw an early 00s Chrysler Sebring with a sagging headliner today. It probably has something to do with where you live, too. Wide temperature swings can’t help the adhesive any.

      Considering headliner material has actually been getting worse over the years, I wonder if that helps the situation. If it’s paper thin felt, maybe it’s less likely to sag in the first place!

    • 0 avatar
      Corey Lewis

      My Cadillac was starting to do it, and it was a ’93. So at least through the mid-90s I think it was still an issue for GM.

      Though the parts in that Deville were mostly from the ’80s except for the engine, so maybe this example doesn’t count.

      • 0 avatar
        Kyree S. Williams

        We had a ’92 Oldsmobile Eighty-Eight that had that issue; however, that car was very much an 80s vehicle in its interior design and construction, with some curves thrown in for good measure. The differences in interiors between the first-year ’92 models and the final ’99 ones is startling. The ’92 must have felt really dated compared to a similar-era Japanese car.

    • 0 avatar
      Johnster

      My first job was working in a recycling center and I remember coming across a ’53 or ’54 Chevy 2-door sedan. Apparently the headliner had started sagging and the owner ripped it out and replaced with contact paper that featured hideous giant red flowers on a bright yellow background. This was in the mid-1970s.

      Get yourself some contact paper. They still make it, only it is a lot more tasteful now-a-days and not nearly as expressive or colorful.

    • 0 avatar
      Big Al from Oz

      First I’ve heard of the headliner in the Commodore.

      • 0 avatar
        Roadranger

        @Big Al – Haha! You’re alright. One of the main selling points of the Commodore wagon was it was always much easier to get the headlining out to repair it.

    • 0 avatar
      dal20402

      1995 Acura Legend here, pleather headliner, not a single sag or crease. No excuse for one failing in 8 years.

  • avatar
    shifter25

    The last gen Acura TL SH-AWD 6 speed would fit the bill

  • avatar
    Lex

    “Just the random aging that comes with a high mileage car” My 2010 Mazda 6 is clocking 138K and I have never had any of those issues. None. You don’t even have to go Honda/Toyota to expect decent quality, which is a shame because I liked the G8 and it’s pickup variants

  • avatar
    JimC2

    Ouch! Don’t sugar coat it, tell us how you *really* feel.

    FWIW, the passenger side power door lock on my 8 year old/200k mile Toyota almost never works and the dashboard is made from the magic sticky plastic material that Toyota used for several years (there’s a goodwill warranty to replace it but the parts are on six month backorder). Other than that, it’s just been routine (fluids, tires, brakes, etc.). Just saying, it’s not all unicorns and rainbows in Toyotaland.

    • 0 avatar
      quaquaqua

      If after 200k miles your only problem is a door lock, that’s definitely unicorns and rainbow material.

      • 0 avatar
        JimC2

        The entire dashboard has the consistency of dried snot.

        Anything else is a minor nuisance at the most. The little digital temperature display doesn’t work right (oh well…) and the rear window defroster has never been effective (fog slowly forms on it while it is on, never mind melting any ice) although it passed the official shop manual diagnostic test. Let’s see… a windshield washer nozzle spontaneously cracked and broke (weird). Probably a few other things so insignificant I forgot about them.

        So yeah, not exactly unicorns and rainbows but definitely far from evil unicorns too.

    • 0 avatar
      Kyree S. Williams

      I believe Toyota has an outstanding recall campaign for cracking dashes on some of its early-mid-aughts luxury cars. My family friend’s 2004 Lexus GX470 is included, and his dash has indeed cracked. Versions of the ES and RX are also part of the campaign.

  • avatar
    Frank Galvin

    Ditto charger. Don’t overlook the 300C. Other considerations; the Fusion Sport – looked great at the NE Auto Show last weekend. Also, why not a Taurus SHO? The used and certified ones I’ve noticed are all in pristine shape with low miles.

  • avatar
    ajla

    As a current R/T owner, Charger build quality probably isn’t going to be any better than what you’ve got on the G8. However, they are fun and like Bark said they don’t cost a lot (mine was over $25K but not by much). The 6.4L ones are super bargains for the straight-line centric, but those might be out of your price range.

    So my picks:
    1. Used GS350 F-Sport
    2. New Charger with the biggest engine you can afford
    3. 2nd gen Cadillac CTS
    4. Used Infiniti M37/M56

    • 0 avatar
      PrincipalDan

      As a current R/T owner, Charger build quality probably isn’t going to be any better than what you’ve got on the G8.

      Then he should be used to it. ;-)

    • 0 avatar
      DeadWeight

      ajla – I honestly believe your Charger is worse than the average one.

      I’m not some cheerleader for the F side of FCA, and I’ll even take issue with the lack of quality of the Journey, Caliber, Cherokee (which is really Fiat) type crap, BUT –

      For the most part, the 300/Charger, Durango (2014+ or even 2012+), Jeep Grand Cherokee, and Challenger are all relatively solid, as are their *8 Speed Auto* transmissions and 3.6 liter V6s and Hemi V8s.

      I’ll take any of the aforementioned vehicles over their $bitty a$$ General Motors equivalents all day, every day.

      While the GM LS V8 is generally reliable, and I’m not going to knock it, even though it also has some well known issues, and I will not knock most GM automatic transmissions, either, the rest of their vehicles are Grade F, disposable crap with components, trim and materials more likely to disintegrate around the powertrain in short order.

      • 0 avatar
        PrincipalDan

        And I WANT to believe FCA is better than that every time I stare longingly at a Hemi Charger or 300.

        Although given that my local dealer has a good reputation I guess I could always just buy a ridiculously long warranty.

      • 0 avatar
        dal20402

        I’ve had enough wildly differing experiences with Charger and 300 rental cars to believe that build quality on LX vehicles is deeply inconsistent. Get a good one, and it will be as good as your average Toyonda. Get a bad one, and you’ll have a nightmare.

      • 0 avatar
        MrIcky

        All I can say is this: my 2014 Challenger RT has 30k miles (maybe not enough to really know, but you should start to see things by now) and has had no issues. It feels very solid, no creaks or rattles. I treat it right maintenance wise, but I’ve taken it to the track and I drive it year round and it’s definitely not a garage queen.

        I have 2 trucks that have also been very solid for me as well.

        • 0 avatar
          ToddAtlasF1

          I’ve driven a Challenger R/T and a Challenger SRT392 in the past two weeks. Neither had hit 30K miles or three years. Both were in the process of causing their owners’ headaches, but the clutches and shifters were remarkable for cars with 400 ft/lbs of torque, and they reveal exactly how much worse a Camaro is to drive on the street than it has to be.

    • 0 avatar
      MrIcky

      I recommend not trying the 392 charger, because after the 392 it will be really hard to be objective about anything else in that relative price bracket regardless of pluses and minuses.

      • 0 avatar
        DeadWeight

        Yep.

        There’s no going back down the ladder once you stomp the 392. Raped ape.

        Less likely to kill you than a He!!cat, but more than enough power, and it has a solid, planted feel and great exhaust note.

    • 0 avatar
      thunderjet

      My wife and I were considering a Charger R/T before we bought our Accord V6. Our worry about long term reliability of the Dodge product was what swayed us toward the Accord.

    • 0 avatar
      AVT

      M56. One of the greatest sleeper cars ever made.

  • avatar
    LS1Fan

    “And yet I’m glad that I got rid of it before even more the typical GM quality control reared its ugly head. Headliner coming down? Leather wearing off the wheel? Mirrors not working? FFS, GM!”

    Really? Cue ” not this s–t again” meme.

    If the OP had a seven year old BMW 5 Series- a car much more comparable in terms of performance – he’d be on his second transmission and sixth fuel pump by now.

    Sure a C5 Corvette loses to an E46 M3 in interior design quality- but at least you won’t need a new subframe. Or conrod bearings . End rant.

    In returning to the OPs dilemma,unfortunately no car escapes the physical law of the universe which says speed is correlated to money. He’s gonna pay either way; either to keep the current G8 on the road, or a modern Dodge Charger /Challenger once it gets old enough . Given Fiat Chryslers QC of late an argument can be made that he’s better off dealing with the devil he knows and keeping the G8 .

    He can lease a German sled -with the strict understanding to unload the liability once the warranty expires. He can do the same with a Dodge,but again ….ditch the car when the lease expires.

    • 0 avatar
      yamahog

      “GM – not the bottom of the barrel!”

      And we wonder why they needed a bail out?

    • 0 avatar
      George B

      LS1Fan, the advantage of the Dodge Charger is that it’s made in North America in reasonably large numbers so replacement parts are relatively inexpensive and easy to get. The Pontiac G8 never sold in large numbers in the US and many specialized replacement parts have to ship from Australia.

    • 0 avatar
      docoski

      ….so I should pay attention to the “buy Japanese, lease German” mantra? I’ve been lusting over the Golf R of late, but expecting > 100K miles probably not for the faint of heart…or pocketbook.

  • avatar
    28-Cars-Later

    Yeah, but overall: Holden > Chryco/FCA?

  • avatar
    Compaq Deskpro

    Obviously Charger, how is there any other option? Nissan? Volvo? Wtf?

  • avatar
    scdjng

    Bark, you’re telling him to give up on the General’s quality and move over to FCA? Really? He’ll be lucky to get to 70,000 miles before all those same issues show up on his Charger.

  • avatar
    S2k Chris

    “Disappointed by the build quality of your GM product? You need a Chrysler product!”

    Wut?

  • avatar
    MPAVictoria

    So like Bark M. I am also a former G8 owner who loved the way the car drove and looked but hated the build quality. It never actually left me stranded but that is about the only positive thing I can say for a car that was babied during the five years and 50K miles I owned it. For the curious here is a short list of some of the problems:
    -Leaky sunroof
    -Very difficult to balance tires. Always took at least a couple trips back to the dealer to get rid of steering wheel wobble
    – Alignment issues
    – Top end of the engine needed to be rebuilt about 3 months after purchase
    – All four door locks had to be replaced twice
    -A/C compressor
    -The control arms had to be replaced 2 times and they were going for a third time when I traded the car in.

    What did I replace it with? A very low mileage CPO S80. 3 years later I am pretty happy with the change. The G8 was a better handler and a bit bigger but the S80 has a way nicer interior, a smoother ride and engine and more uptodate features. Plus they really suffer from deprecation so good used ones can be found for a steal.

  • avatar
    rjg

    Read the first sentence and immediately thought of the Charger. I’d lease it though – you might be able to score a 16 in the 200s on a 36 month lease. That way you’re in better shape if it turns into a nightmare and/or Chrysler goes bankrupt

  • avatar
    omer333

    Don’t even get me started on FCA build quality.

    That said, I agree with rjg, if you’re gonna go with something from FCA, lease it.

    Dare I say a BMW might be a better machine to own and all that than anything from FCA.

  • avatar
    tonycd

    I think this guy and Bark are both going at this completely ass-backwards.

    He’s tired of the reliability problems with his car. He wants a big, fast four-door. He’s bothered at paying new-car prices for a car that will rapidly depreciate. So Bark’s recommendation is to buy an unreliable new big car that will rapidly depreciate, because it’s being sold at a discount.

    Better answer: Put that rapid depreciation to work FOR you rather than against you, by buying a more reliable make as a CPO. Infiniti M56 V8? Lexus GS460 V8? You take it from here.

    • 0 avatar
      LS1Fan

      He wants an enthusiast car,not a fast luxury car.

      Unfortunately ,no enthusiast sedan sold new today that drives like a G8 will be any more reliable. OP should lease (not BUY) the aforementioned options.

      Rant #2 on: Mainstream auto manufacturers have caught on to the German business model. Which is make their cars statistically reliable enough to make it through 100,000 miles ,and then self destruct afterwards. It’s not planned obsolescence- more like planned attrition.

      The days of buying a used car like the G8 and just putting parts in it indefinitely may be over. Owning a car long term won’t be a practical option even for the mechanically inclined,because half the critical parts the car needs to run can only be sourced and installed via the dealers proprietary computers. My LS1 Camaro -and the OPs G8- can be fixed in a garage provided there’s readily available tools and a lift.

      Try that with a car after 2012. If you lose the key ,you can’t fix it in your garage. I can only imagine what kind of a nightmare it’ll be keeping a 2016 Charger RT running in 2027.

      I’m a little saddened that my next “ordinary” car will forevermore be a lease of some kind,but such is life and change thereof.

      • 0 avatar
        yamahog

        “Rant #2 on: Mainstream auto manufacturers have caught on to the German business model. Which is make their cars statistically reliable enough to make it through 100,000 miles ,and then self destruct afterwards. It’s not planned obsolescence- more like planned attrition.”

        Maybe you need to find other automakers. Have you considered a Prius?

    • 0 avatar

      Go drive a G8. Then drive the Lexus and/or Infiniti you suggested. Then tell me if the driving experiences are anything like each other.

      • 0 avatar
        DeadWeight

        You’re 3 for 3 or 4 for 4 now, in just the last 8 days or so.

        https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2013/08/review-2013-charger-se-pentastar-5at-two-countries-and-two-thousand-miles-in-four-days/

        Even better value and performer now with the 8 speed.

        Better yet, sacrifice the extra two doors (I do realize this opens up far more options in terms of competition if he’s going to settle for a coupe) and still end up with a huge rear seat and do this:

        https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2014/07/review-2015-dodge-challenger-rt-scat-pack-6mt/

        The V8 Dodges sound bad-a$$, feel bad-a$$, and actually handle better than they should with upgraded brakes and suspension parts. And inexpensive…

      • 0 avatar
        tonycd

        OK, Bark, fair enough. But it wasn’t meant to be a comprehensive list. Are you telling me there’s NOTHING exciting in a big or midsize sedan that’s more reliable than a Fiatsler?

    • 0 avatar
      Russycle

      I’m not sure what the OP’s looking for, since he includes a Malibu hybrid in his list. I see two ways go:

      Charger V8, if you can get one in the mid-20s depreciation can’t be that bad, and it should be good for 100k trouble-free-ish miles (maybe?).

      If reliability and depreciation are big deals: Camry V6. Should be able to get some kind of deal on a ’17, or hold out for the new, lower ’18, it may be quite the sleeper. You’ll pay for it, but with depreciation, fuel, and maintnenance you’ll probably come out ahead in the long run. But it’s still a Camry.

    • 0 avatar
      Frylock350

      The Charger isn’t unreliable and “sold at a discount” cancels out “will rapidly depreciate”. That’s the thing about depreciation, its calculated from MSRP, not from what you actually pay. Get a significant enough discount and you’ll come out just fine.

      The alternatives you’ve suggested cost a FORTUNE to fix if they do break and even routine stuff is pricier. And lol at the idea that an M56 will somehow be more reliable than a Charger.

  • avatar
    cognoscenti

    My first thought was: 2011 E90 M3. That’s the true successor to the E39 M5 (check the interior seating dimensions!), not the SS. The Chevy SS would encounter the same parts struggles as the G8. However, Bark’s reply is spot on and I stand corrected. A new Charger R/T with warranty is an infinitely better value for the money. People talking down the build quality are not considering how much cheaper the Charger is over the nicer competition, both to purchase and to maintenance. I think I would have bought one already if I could get a manual transmission in it.

    • 0 avatar
      arach

      I would think a CPO Chevy SS with warranty would be a better bet than the charger.

      FCA quality across the board seems awful. Besides owning 5 FCA vehicles in the last 5 years, in every quality test I’ve ever seen FCA loses or is close to losing.

      The Chevy SS is an amazing car, likely will hold its value to some extent like the G8 did, unlike the FCA.

      I think Chevrolet SS is the way to go, despite being made by Holden and shipped over from aussieland, especially since he likes them.

      “But Wait! He said he can’t afford an SS”.

      Is that true? I’m looking at low mileage CPO SSes in the 20s. 20s!!! I can barely believe that and I just tempted myself to get one.

      Your car is probably worth enough in trade to get that into the teens.

      It is possible the OP can’t afford a $17,500 car, but I think there’s a good chance he can and just didn’t realize he could get in an SS that cheap.

  • avatar
    Rochester

    The solution is to stop buying US Domestic cars. Research the Infiniti M56. So much more refinement and quality than anything ever to come out of Detroit.

  • avatar
    Rick Astley

    Fun article, but I am noticing a frustrating trend here in TTAC articles that has slowly been gathering steam.

    1) Is this Jalopnik (and alllllllll that that implies of “journalistic integrity”)?

    2) Does this site cater to the high school gum snapping community, mouth breathers, and frat boys?

    3) Would it be possible to write articles for this site without cursing? I don’t need to drop F bombs all day to get my point across and had never felt that I need to pre-read articles from this site before allowing children to do so. And The joys of TTAC (But mostly Bark M) articles now being blocked by workplace filters is also an interesting.

    4) If you won’t have the comments section filling up with “C-word this, F-bomb that, Go suck a D”, then please hold yourselves to the journalistic integrity that this site has always (previously?) represented.

    5) It was your august founder with a passion for personal safety who once said “In general, the Swedes are a polite, hospitable people. But doing business with Detroit is enough to test even the patience of a people who discovered good manners on a pillaging run back in 795 C.E.” to get his point across. I know you guys can express yourselves without being Jalopnik “journalists”.

    • 0 avatar
      Chan

      Who knew Rick Astley was a car guy too!

      The Baruth brothers are fairly outspoken–I’ve found that although I don’t always agree with them, they provide consistently entertaining and thoughtful content.

      I think Bark was trying to give some tough love here, but I can’t find fault with his suggestion of a Charger.

    • 0 avatar

      1) No, certainly not. I also contribute to Jalopnik, and I see a vast difference between the voices and audiences.

      2) Can you explain this question further?

      3) Sure, it’s possible. Doesn’t mean it’s gonna happen all the time. I’m an Editor here, and I have carte blanche to write how I like.

      4) I always approve any comment with profanity that the spam filter catches.

      5) Again, what’s your obsession with Jalopnik?

      • 0 avatar
        Rick Astley

        2) Perhaps not intentional, I have always felt that TTAC caters to a true automotive enthusiast which is reflected by a narrow focus of the actual automotive sector (rather than straying too far from it’s mission statement. There are some car sites/blogs/youtubers who essentially live to talk about their latest rant. The B&B who write and comment here, I feel, are more educated in the entire automotive experience (example being the absolutely amazing articles about how dealerships really function, floor plans, etc).

        3) Freedom of speech is just that, and you guys have done a really good job of setting boundaries with plenty of room to roam in between. You have the power to write as you want as I have the power to choose to partake in your site or not.

        I wrote what I did because I think it raise important questions worthy of closer examination and spirited debate. To my mind, that’s a good thing, not a bad thing. And if everybody on here chastises me then I value their opinion.

        (Full disclosure: I am not a conservative person but feel that journalistic talent is better expressed without cursing)

        4) I have no visibility to how you do your job and have not noted that profanity is popping up in every comment string. But if every post by “user ABC123” started and ended with profanities and viewpoints were emphasized with constant cursing, would that bring any value to TTAC?

        5) Could you discuss the American automotive market by only referencing GM? Using that site as an example is valid in this case as you operate in the same general topic sphere. Except their “journalists” follow the negative example cited in #2 above. As a long time reader of TTAC (who doesn’t comment very much, sorry), I have enjoyed the high degree of journalistic skill and wordsmithing you and your talented people have brought over the years.

        I have no metrics at hand to support this, but it seems to me that the instances of cursing in articles has ramped up over the past 12 years to something that now happens on a weekly/daily basis rather than something rarely resorted to.

  • avatar
    sportyaccordy

    Wasn’t there a dude on here who had a miserable time with a Charger? PrincipalDan? ajla?

    Even still, $26K OTD for an honest to God RWD V8 American sedan is a crazy steal. The facelifted version looks great as well and Uconnect is the best in the business.

  • avatar
    Sigivald

    The S60 T6 would be reasonably fast, if not quite as fast as the G8.

    (Possibly as fast or faster if it has the Polestar tune or is an S60R, depending on year, because marginally lower power but less (IIRC) weight.

    Plus AWD.

    But you’re right – what he really ought to be after is a Charger.)

  • avatar
    Kato

    Bark nailed it. Charger R/T is comfortable, large enough for the OP’s tastes, RWD, and fast. Agree with “Rick Astley” that the F-bombs in the article are tacky.

    • 0 avatar
      PrincipalDan

      http://bigthink.com/paul-ratner/do-we-find-people-who-swear-more-honest-yes-says-new-study

      http://tinyurl.com/jcdjmu4 (Or the tinyurl if the long link doesn’t post well.)

      I’m assuming that all of those who “Ask Bark” want an honest answer. :-)

  • avatar
    Pinzgauer

    Cmon FCA build quality is not as bad as people say. I own a 13 RAM 1500, 16 Scat Pack Challenger, and an 11 T&C. I dont have many issues with any of them, with the Van being the worst of the 3 due to all the gadgetry. The RAM has had exactly 0 issues and the Challenger had a leaky CV boot but otherwise has been perfect. The truck gets used as a truck and I beat the Challenger pretty good when I drive it. I’ve had no more issues than the Ford, Honda and Nissans that they replaced.

  • avatar
    APaGttH

    I will point out that on True Delta, the G8 from 08 and 09 is one of the most reliable cars in the class with a score of 44. JD Power 3-year reliability score was a 5.0, the highest score available.

    Every car maker has lemons in what would be otherwise perfect products. My sister will never own another Honda in her life after her experience with a Civic. In contrast she has a 1997 Camry LE with 270K miles on it that she bought new, so she is no fan of American iron.

    Will absolutely not deny that the BMW engineers GM poached to develop the Zeta platform, did a great job of recreating the front suspension that Bavaria developed – right up to its appetite for lower control arms and ball joints. Like BMW, there are aftermarket parts which are more robust and address these issues.

    To Barks experience with engine failures, It is at the end of the day an LS engine, which is generally know for reliability.

    Finally, that’s my car in the picture for this article. No falling headliner, mirrors work fine, engine is fine, suspension is original. It’s been autocrossed, tracked, and used in DPE school by two other drivers. I guess I got amazingly lucky.

    • 0 avatar
      Corey Lewis

      Has TTAC used your photo before?

    • 0 avatar

      TrueDelta LOLZ

      • 0 avatar
        APaGttH

        JD Power 3-year reliability score was 5.0 – which is “one of the best in class.”

        I don’t have a CR subscription so can’t look up.

        • 0 avatar
          JimZ

          I do. CR only has data for 2009, but they give it the top mark for “used car reliability prediction.”

          as an aside, they recently tore up their well known red and black dot rating system. now they’ve gone all “traffic light:”

          Dark green: much better than average (what used to be the red dot)
          light green: better than average (used to be the red half-circle
          yellow: average (formerly white circle)
          orange: worse than average (formerly black half-circle)
          red: much worse than average (formerly black dot)

          • 0 avatar
            APaGttH

            So True Delta, JD Power and CR all say long term it is a very reliable car.

            Meh – what do they know LOLZ. We live in a post-truth age where facts and research don’t matter.

            Only personal bias baby!

          • 0 avatar
            JimZ

            we magnify our own experiences and tend to assume they’re the norm. it’s no secret how people will shun reams of data if they have a personal anecdote that is contrary to the data. Plus the average person has a poor grasp of statistics.

            I mean, any time the topic of VW’s reliability history comes up, you’ll always (ALWAYS) have at least a few people pipe up with “nuh-uh my 1999 Passat went 6 million miles NO PROBLEMS AT ALL and I only changed the oil twice!!111one”

    • 0 avatar
      dal20402

      G8s won’t leave you stranded (because the powertrain is quite reliable) but they’ll just suffer endless niggling issues.

      Within my 6 1/2 years and 38,000 miles of G8 GXP ownership (from new), I had the following:

      – Notorious front control arm rattle of death
      – Rear main seal leak
      – Failed TPMS controller
      – Failed center brake light LED array
      – Occasional random full reset of climate control/infotainment
      – Severe dash rattle from new, never fixed
      – Numerous other interior build quality issues
      – Two paint flaws (grease spot on the hood and inadequate coverage on the plastic rocker panel)

      • 0 avatar
        MPAVictoria

        Yep. In the five years and 50K miles I owned mine I had the following problems:
        -Leaky sunroof
        -Very difficult to balance tires. Always took at least a couple trips back to the dealer to get rid of steering wheel wobble
        – Alignment issues.
        – Top end of the engine needed to be rebuilt about 3 months after purchase
        – All four door locks had to be replaced twice
        -A/C compressor
        -The control arms had to be replaced 2 times and they were going for a third time when I traded the car in.

        Never left me stranded though.

  • avatar
    chaparral

    Wait a year and test-drive a Kia Stinger GT 3.3TT?

    After NAIAS I’m starting to think that the answer to any question about “what 4-seater should I get, budget >$30000” is “Accord or Civic depending on height of your family + your choice of Miata or Corvette”

  • avatar
    dal20402

    I’m a former G8 GXP owner. Loved the drive, hated the build and material quality. Unlike this poster, the cheap and poorly assembled interior drove me crazy. I had a severe dashboard rattle from new, pinky-size dash panel gaps, and visible wear on the plastic part of the shift knob after just 20,000 miles.

    Then I realized I was never able to take advantage of the car’s capability in everyday Seattle traffic. So I switched gears and bought a 2008 LS 460, for about the same price for which I sold the G8. Contrary to Toyota reputation it’s been a bit of a maintenance hog, needing 8 new front control arms at considerable expense, a set of tires, a set of rear brakes, and two new batteries in my 20 months and 8,000 miles of ownership. Now it sits on a battery tender, since I typically drive it only on weekends.

    But it’s supremely comfortable, rides like a rolling pillow, and the interior will last forever. The materials have the same indestructible vibe that you got from ’70s and ’80s Benzes. The Mark Levinson stereo is as good as OEM systems get. With performance all-season tires in place of the OEM mushballs, both straight-line and turning performance is way more than adequate for any public road in the Seattle area, although there is zero steering or brake feel.

    Not necessarily recommended for everyone, but I thought I’d share my experience.

    • 0 avatar
      28-Cars-Later

      The Church’s LS sect is pleased with your contribution.

    • 0 avatar
      Frylock350

      This is completely off topic but did you ever see the wild suspension Bose developed for the LS back in the day?

      • 0 avatar
        dal20402

        I always wonder what happened to some of those amazing active suspension concepts. It seems like with today’s processing power you could develop an active suspension that would be almost unfoolable. Instead we still have nothing but conventional suspensions even at the very highest price levels.

        • 0 avatar
          yamahog

          processing power was never the issue – power draw was. That suspension used electromagnetically articulated rams which had the power to lift up a 4,500 lb car over a foot off the ground in .2 seconds, that’s a power draw of ~40kW.

          Tesla could be the only company in the world that has automotive grade inverters that can handle those energy requirements. Those active dampeners probably do ‘good enough’ and use two orders of magnitude less energy.

    • 0 avatar
      yamahog

      “…Contrary to Toyota reputation…”

      But completely in line with what any google search for ‘common problems LS460’ will warn you about. There’s a reason that 05-06 LS430s are nearly the price of comparable condition 2007-2008 LS460s.

      Nevermind that the Mark Levinson amplifer is a time bomb as well (and $800 or so to refurbish).

      Mind those valve guides too.

    • 0 avatar
      rpn453

      8 new front control arms? Is that a typo?

      • 0 avatar
        dal20402

        Nope, there are four on each side (two upper and two lower), and I had to replace all of them. I looked at the old ones and the bushings looked like a rat had chewed on them.

        • 0 avatar
          rpn453

          I see. Lots of little arms, like the rear suspension of an RX-8.

          https://www.parts.com/media/images/oe/collision/8/8932235.gif

          Well, that sounds better than having to do them more than once over your short ownership period, like I was expecting to hear.

          • 0 avatar
            dal20402

            Reports are that the 2011+ parts, which are backward compatible with the earlier cars and which I had installed, last as expected. I don’t expect to have to do this work again.

    • 0 avatar
      Lightspeed

      My GS gobbles front control arms too, but yes, comfy interior that stays looking new for darn near forever – and everything else is pretty reliable.

  • avatar
    dividebytube

    I recently drove a MY06 Infiniti M35 Sport with 68k miles on the clock. It wasn’t exactly a BMW handling machine, but it sure was nice considering the weight and that it only had a 280hp V6 to move it.

    This was a Florida car for half of the year – the dash was cracked but everything else was still in really good condition. I would look at the V8 version if you needed more power.

    The car gave me a new respect for Infiniti – the back legroom was huge! – which is important when you have a son who is 6’4″. The M series is now on my list for the next car purchase.

  • avatar
    Paragon

    Without reading any replies, I say Bark is 100% correct! The only possible replacement is a Charger R/T. They are great cars. A most suitable replacement. Bark nails it!

    • 0 avatar
      Paragon

      OK, shortly after posting this, I drove across town to take something to a friend’s apartment. Near her apartment was a RED, PONTIAC G-8! Talk about coincidence. Admittedly, I’ve always liked the Pontiac G-8. However replacement parts are readily available for the current Dodge Charger, and should continue to be for many, many years. Go visit your friendly Dodge dealer. They will likely be able to offer you a very good deal, as in below MSRP. Drive it, and you will be sold.

  • avatar
    hubcap

    Much talk about FCA reliability but not much about what it means in real life. I don’t remember the source so can’t vouch for accuracy, but I’ve read the the least reliable car today would be tops in reliability 15 years ago.

    Again, don’t know how true that, is but when you look at FCA’s reliability what does it mean? How many extra trips to the dealer per year? How much money spent for repairs?

    If, for example, one out every 100 Toyotas is a “lemon” what would be the percentage for FCA?

    And lastly are there certain cars that bring down the average. If so, what are they and what problems do they have.

    For me, I’d buy an SRT Charger over an 528i (or is it 530 now?) BMW.

  • avatar
    nels0300

    Charger R/T does seem like a good choice….but they’re really not faster than an Accord or Camry V6, at least the 5.7L.

    What it has going for it, it’s big, it’s RWD, it has a V8. But it’s FCA.

    The new Camry V6, with it’s port and direct injection, should be around 300 horsepower. With the 8 speed, should be about as quick as the G8 automatic.

    The Camry V6 won’t sound as cool, but it will be made better than both the G8 or Charger, get much better mileage, and I really think it will in the same ballpark as the G8 auto in terms of acceleration.

    Yeah it’s just a Camry.

    But the Charger is a Dodge.

    • 0 avatar
      Corey Lewis

      You’re now at the point where the level of facepalm requires a visit to the ER.

      • 0 avatar
        nels0300

        Why?

        The guy is considering a Malibu Hybrid.

        I don’t think a Camry V6 is that far fetched.

        • 0 avatar
          Corey Lewis

          We’re trying to keep him into a fun-to-drive car, and skip the Malibu Hybrid.

          • 0 avatar
            nels0300

            Well a Camry V6 is kind of a middle ground between a Malibu Hybrid and a Charger V8.

            And who knows, maybe Toyota really did improve the handling dynamics of the new Camry and it ends up being more fun than a Charger R/T.

            Plus, if you keep your cars for a long time, 10 years down the road, the Camry will still be nice, and the Charger will be a rat.

      • 0 avatar
        28-Cars-Later

        DOCTOR: What are your symptoms?

        PATIENT: I get pain and burning with my facepalm.

    • 0 avatar
      DeadWeight

      Their different species in terms of feel, sound and overall experience.

      Honestly, if some of the people who have never driven a new Dodge Charger V8 or Challenger V8 with the Brembos (and ideally, with a manual on the Chally) did so, it’s the muscle car experience idealized.

      Brute force acceleration and torque, beautiful, loud noises from the exhaust, and now with real braking performance and actually respectable steering feel.

      • 0 avatar
        hubcap

        +1

        It’s the entire experience. Visual, tactile, and aural theater.

        Some of the same reasons why, for some, a sports sedan/hot hatch is a one for one replacement for a sports car while others want the total experience.

      • 0 avatar
        nels0300

        Yeah, I understand they’re a “different species” in terms of feel, sound and experience.

        Look at the cars the OP is considering.

        He is open to a different species.

        I don’t think he would consider a Malibu hybrid or a Mazda6 if he’s only looking to replicate the experience of a Pontiac G8.

        • 0 avatar
          DeadWeight

          First, I meant to write “they’re” and not “their,” above. I can’t stand it when I make dumb typos or grammatical errors (these smaller screens on tablets and smartphones are not helping – not an excuse, but an explanation as to how I’m making them more often as of late).

          But I think a Camry V6 is just too refined and monochromatic, which is not necessarily a knock against it as there are many car buyers wanting that experience, to be close in spirit enough to be in the same ballpark as the G8 or cars like the Charger.

          It’s not only refined and monochromatic, but it’s also front wheel drive.

          There’s really something about a torque-loaded, bellowing V8, with rear wheel drive, a loud exhaust note (especially at WOT), fat tires, and preferably, a manual transmission (the Challenger has a really decent Tremec unit), that is a one of kind recipe, and no Camry or Accord or vehicle that’s similar to those, no matter how quick from 0-60, is going to come close to imitating.

          • 0 avatar
            nels0300

            I had an LX 5.0 coupe with a manual transmission, I get the whole RWD V8 appeal.

            It just seems like the OP was open to a change of pace.

            If not, then yes, the Charger V8 is really the only game in town.

      • 0 avatar
        Wheeljack

        Deadweight,

        While I cannot argue about the allure of the 6.4L engine, I would submit that the V6/8-speed car, while not as aurally satisfying, is still a hoot to drive. How do I know? I just bought a V6 Challenger in mid-September of last year and am enjoying every moment of it so far – I already have 8,400 miles on it. Depending on the publication, the V6 turns in 0-60 times around 6 seconds or just slightly under. The 5.7L isn’t much faster at around 5.2 seconds (give or take, again depending on publication) to 60.

        It’s too bad the Brembos aren’t offered with the V6, but there is a decent alternative that offers surprisingly strong braking performance for very little money. Order the car with the roughly $700 “Super Track Pak” option and break the brakes in properly, something most people simply don’t do, and you will be quite pleased with the stopping power. With Super Track Pak, you get larger rotors in the front and larger/vented rear rotors, plus bigger calipers to go with them. The front calipers, while of the sliding type, are huge and have 2 massive pistons that develop some real clamping force. The next box you have to check is the “high performance brake pad” option for $95, which goes above and beyond the standard Super Track Pak brake pads and gives you an excellent pad compound, which I believe is a carbon-metallic type. Be warned however that this type of pad results in more brake dust and a low speed “graunch” noise when creeping. A small price to pay for strong brakes in my book. Also, to the B&B, please don’t confuse carbon metallic with the more exotic carbon ceramic matrix brakes found on a number of high performance cars sold today, I’m definitely not talking about those!

        I can’t say enough about properly breaking in brakes of all compound types, performance or otherwise. When properly bedded, not only does the incidence rate of disc thickness variation (or what people perceive as “warped rotors”) go way down, but the brakes perform much better and last longer to boot. What this process is doing, if done correctly, is burning off any resins or binders in the pad materials and depositing a nice even layer of friction material on the rotor surface, helping to protect it from hot spots and excessive wear.

        Fun related story: my Sister had an Intrepid years ago, and like most of the LH cars, it suffered from brake problems. I fixed her car permanently by installing the special police car rotors and police car pad compound (carbon metallic, I believe) and then giving it a spirited run through the hills near her house to perform the break-in procedure. You know you’ve done it right when you smell the acrid smell that most people associate with a burned clutch and smoke is coming out of the wheels/wheelwells. I loved the look of horror on my Sister’s face when she peeked out into the garage to investigate the smell upon my return and saw the smoke coming off the car! Although she would occasionally complain about the pad noise after that (I warned her up front), she never had problems with the brakes on that car again.

        • 0 avatar
          DeadWeight

          Congrats on the new V6, WJ.

          I think that the Pentastar 3.6 liter is a great, great motor, competitive with anything and better than most V6s (I linked a review by Jack above where he and his brother took a 2013 Charger 3.6 liter with the old 5 speed automatic (the new 8 speed makes it even better) on a very extended trip.

          I had an extended rental Durango (2014) with that motor and the 8 speed, and people here did not believe that I routinely saw near 30mpg at 80mph in Arizona (admittedly, this was not hand calculated, but reported by the vehicle, so it may have been optimistic by a mpg or 2). What makes this impressive is that the Durango I was driving weighs around 4,880 lbs, I believe.

          If anyone would have told me even 8 years ago that a Chrysler V6 would be as refined as a Toyota V6, get better fuel economy, produce 292 horsepower and around (I believe) 288 lbs-ft of torque, be extremely reliable, and snap off shifts better when coupled with Chrysler’s in-house ZF-clone 8 speed auto, I would have told them to hit the crack pipe some more.

          The 300 with the 3.6 and 8 speed is THE rock-solid, great riding, well sorted chassis, roomy, comfortable, quiet, refined bargain of this era. You Dana actually get into a Limited that’s close to base but still very well-equipped for around 27k, and they’ll throw in an extended warranty b2b in the metro-Detroit area.

          But anything with the 3.6 is good to go.

          The 392 is just a different animal with an entirely different mission, and again, it’s a performance bargain relative to anything else out there. If I had to choose between a Mustang GT with the Coyote or the Challenger 392 R/T Scat Pack, it would be an incredibly difficult decision, and probably boil down to whether I needed a real rear seat. Either one would be manual trans.

        • 0 avatar
          JimC2

          “You know you’ve done it right when you smell the acrid smell that most people associate with a burned clutch and smoke is coming out of the wheels/wheelwells.”

          Sir, if we could “like” WordPress comments then I would definitely give this one a like!

    • 0 avatar
      MrIcky

      Ya, the 5.7 is faster. like .5 second to 60 and a little more than that in the 1/4. Where are all these magic Camry’s and Accords coming from?

  • avatar
    Lightspeed

    The answer is Miata, a used Miata, AND a 2005 Lexus GS430 for reliable V8 power and driving comfort.

  • avatar
    markf

    103k miles is “High Mileage”? Headliners falling down on a 7 y/o car? Is this the 1970’s?

  • avatar
    Spartan

    I know it’s been said a million times, but a HEMI Charger is a no brainer here.

    I wish they would have offered them in a manual. I would have bought one years ago.

    • 0 avatar
      Paragon

      Yes, I know manual transmission cars are still typically low-volume cars and extremely slow sellers, but considering what the current Charger represents and the type of people likely to buy the car – enthusiasts who need a family sedan – it seems like it could have worked to offer a manual in a Charger.

    • 0 avatar
      hubcap

      “I wish they would have offered them in a manual. I would have bought one years ago.”

      I’m sure there’s quite a few people who would have one in their garage right now if they had a manual option.

  • avatar
    JD-Shifty

    The internet is a great place to find people who would suggest a Prius to replace a G8, and to hear endless whining about panel gaps and “hard plastics used on switches”.

  • avatar
    Big Al from Oz

    A Focus ST.

  • avatar
    facelvega

    A CPO Audi A7 is about the same price as a deeply discounted new Charger R/T. It’s faster, drives better, is about the same size, will probably be about as reliable (though parts will cost more), gets better fuel economy, has AWD, and is an almost unfathomably nicer car inside and out. Will it cost more than a Charger in the long run? Probably, but during those years you were a guy who drove a heroic GT and not the same crappy Dodge as your uncle Bobby. Stay alive inside, buy the Audi.

    • 0 avatar
      DeadWeight

      You can’t play the Freddie Tavarish “Why Buy A New Avalon When You Can Buy This 5 Year Old Aston Martin Vantage?” game here.

      I understand the primal appeal, as I’m driving a low-mileage, one-owner, cherry 2012 Mercedes E350 that I paid less for than what a new base model Hyundai Sonata would cost, but once you start it, it opens up a Pandora’s Box of ridiculous options and literally thousands of possibilities that veer into the bizarre.

      • 0 avatar
        28-Cars-Later

        The Vantage should have terrible resale and act like a late model Jag, but it doesn’t for reasons only know to the auction gods (and V12 no less!).

        • 0 avatar
          DeadWeight

          ‘Tis because of the sheer, pure, magical beauty of that amazingly tasteful exterior.

          • 0 avatar
            facelvega

            Yes, the Vantage is one of the few cars that actually look better in person than in advertising pics. But so is the A7– parked my E91 next to one recently, and it made the BMW look like a piece of junk.

            But really, is a 3 year old Audi with 3 years and 70k miles remaining under warranty any less reliable than a new Chrysler product with the standard warranty?

  • avatar
    djo165

    As the original and still current owner of a White Hot 2009 G8 GT, I must say I’m a little surprised at the lack of support the G8 is getting here. I’ve got over 82k on mine, and the headliner, engine, and tranny are fine. I have had to replace the front struts, two engine mounts, and one alternator, but that says more about the crappy roads I have to drive on than the car.

    As for the OP, get a low mileage used CPO SS if you can find one, or the Dodge Charger if you can deal with the size. Just be prepared for FCA levels of quality control.

  • avatar
    MatadorX

    I love how the OP admits what absolute piles these G8s are to actually own.

    ….And yet when he goes to sell I can see it now…: “Rare blah blah blah Rare blah blah blah RARE RARE DID I mention RARE! 25K FIRM”

    I really want one of these, in GT spec. I’d even be a player for the OP’s car, knowing full well the issues. But Lets get real, he is describing at MOST a 12k car, and even that is pushing it. He’s seeing the G8 gold, the 2009 GXPs still going for 39k!!! describing the issues he has had, and putting out there a 25k number because he thinks “that’s what my worn out 100k+ 8 year old car is worth, so now I’m done wearing it out and want more than what I paid for it and oh by the way trade it for something near new, because rare”

    Get real. These G8s have to be the most over valued car in the world.

  • avatar
    Jimal

    Hook, line, and sinker…

    I bought a 2009 G8 GT this past August; it just crossed 100k miles a couple weeks ago. Despite all of its quirks I love the damn thing. My older daughter calls it Matilda. Mine was a one-owner car bought from the dealer that sold and serviced it, and the big ticket items (the camshaft and bendy lower control arms) were handled under warranty some time ago.

    I love this damn car. It is nice, but not so nice that I’m not afraid to winter autocross it. It has some interesting quirks, but ohmygodpower!!! The opposite of the Jetta 1.8T lease special it replaced.

  • avatar
    cimarron typeR

    For a reliable used 4dr purchased used , I agree with the Infiniti recommendation,from personal experience, as a former G35 and G37S owner here. Can’t beat overall quality and NA reliability of a proven platform (either M or G)_, all of those issues a G8 owner had encountered would likely not occur or occur 7 or 8 yrs later. Lots of off lease examples nationwide, no premature corrosion issues, and a solid aftermarket if the mod bug occurs.

  • avatar
    cpurser

    I just traded a 2009.5 G8 GXP last month.I bought it new, sold at 120k miles. It was one of the best cars I’d ever owned. The only things I had to fix were rear main seal, oil pan seal, clutch, all covered under extended warranty @99k. I never even had to replace a light bulb.

  • avatar
    Nicola

    I am the original owner of a 2009 G8GT. I love the car for what it is. The G8 was a simple, old-fashioned, brutish sedan. The interior was basic, but its mission was not to be a Lexus. It was an inexpensive performance sedan and an amazing value. The Chargers of that era did not compare in terms of handling or refinement. I tried them both, and the only thing the Charger did better was go in a straight line. Not a bad car, but the G8 was more livable and fun. I have since added a 2016 Chevy SS to the fleet, and it is a blast, too. My complaint is that it is over-contented. Just give me the lovely 6.2L engine, the brakes, and the excellent magnetic suspension. The rest is fluff.

    Neither car is really cross-shoppable with a Toyota or Lexus. Different missions, different products. The feel of a RWD V8 is not the same as a FWD 6. If the G8 got Cory’s heart pumping, a Camry will harsh his buzz. The Charger is the most affordable and best option. A BMW may impress the neighbors and his smiling mechanic, but my guess is that Cory does not give a hoot about that being that he purchased the G8 back in 2009. Old farts like me who are not fans of hot hatch cars and will soon miss cars like the G8, SS, and Charger.

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