By on August 22, 2016

2016 Chevrolet Camaro SS yellow“Do you want to get in and out of your car easily and do you want to be able to back out of a tight parking spot?” Ford Mustang buyer and former Chevrolet Camaro shopper John Oglesby wrote to Car And Driver for its September 2016 issue. “If so, you need the Mustang.”

John Oglesby is truly representative of the market as a whole. After holding its position as the top dog in the segment for five years, the Chevrolet Camaro predictably lost its title to the Ford Mustang in 2015, the year of an all-new Mustang; the last year for the now-departed fifth-generation Chevrolet Camaro.

2016 hosted the launch of an all-new Chevrolet Camaro, but a return to sales leadership wasn’t in the cards. Not at any point since the nameplate’s 2009 return has the Camaro sold so poorly. Year-over-year, U.S. Camaro volume is down 15 percent compared with 2015, the Camaro’s previous worst year since returning.

Poor visibility, a premium price point, and styling that improved but was not significantly altered are not the only issues at play. General Motors is also making a concerted effort to decrease reliance on sales to daily rental companies. But demand is clearly below expectations, because Automotive News now reports (as we learned from GMInsideNews last week) that GM had a 129-day supply of 27,400 Camaros heading into August 2016.

If people aren’t buying and you keep on building, inventory is bound to pile up. No wonder significant incentives have kicked in to rid dealers of 2016 Camaros. 2016 Ford Mustang Convertible California SpecialFord’s supply of Mustangs is not as great as Chevrolet’s supply of Camaros, yet over the last three months, Ford is selling 80 percent more Mustangs than Chevrolet is selling Camaros. Automotive News says Ford had a 72-day supply of 26,600 Mustangs entering this month.

Meanwhile, in Dodge showrooms, where Fiat Chrysler Automobiles has reported 17,775 Challenger sales in the last three months — compared with 16,316 Camaro sales in Chevrolet stores — there was a 76-day supply of 16,500 Challengers at the beginning of August, Automotive News reports. Roughly 1.4 million passenger cars accounted for 62 days of industry-wide inventory as August began. Nearly 2.2 million light trucks equal 60 days of supply.

Just as sales figures don’t tell the whole story, neither do the numbers from the supply chain. Regardless, when supply hugely outweighs demand, prices must fall. For the Camaro, prices will have to fall far, and they’ll have to do so quickly.

Of the 26,299 new Camaros shown in Cars.com’s inventory, nearly 10,000 are 2017 models. This leaves less desirable 2016 models to fight for lot space — and buyers — with newer cars. Let’s be honest: at the same price point, which car are you going to take, the 2016 or 2017?

Relative to many other sporting cars, U.S. sales of the Camaro remain healthy. (UK Camaro sales? Not so much.) In July, for instance, when GM reported 5,520 Chevrolet Camaro sales, the BMW 2 Series, Mazda MX-5 Miata, Nissan 370Z, Scion FR-S, Fiat 124 Spider, Subaru BRZ combined for 4,826 sales. In an unusually strong July for the Volkswagen Golf GTI, Camaro sales were more than twice as strong. Upmarket, the Audi A5, BMW 4 Series, Infiniti Q60, and Lexus RC combined for 3,969 sales.

Compared with the Mustang and Challenger, however, the Camaro’s share of the three-car category is down to 27 percent so far this year from 30 percent one year ago and 41 percent during the first seven months of 2014.

Compared with the Camaro’s own history, U.S. sales in 2016 are on track to total roughly 66,000 units, approximately the same total the Camaro managed 20 years ago, prior to sharp declines that led to the car’s demise.

GM averaged 84,000 Camaro sales per year between 2010 and 2014, never dropping below the 80K marker.

Compared with GM’s expectations for the new, sixth-gen Camaro, sales today are clearly sub-par. Otherwise, GM wouldn’t have built so many.

Timothy Cain is the founder of GoodCarBadCar.net, which obsesses over the free and frequent publication of U.S. and Canadian auto sales figures. Follow on Twitter @goodcarbadcar and on Facebook.

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85 Comments on “With Chevrolet Camaro Sales Plunging, Camaro Inventory Has Ballooned To A 129-Day Supply...”


  • avatar
    kefkafloyd

    “Do you want to get in and out of your car easily and do you want to be able to back out of a tight parking spot?” Ford Mustang buyer and former Chevrolet Camaro shopper John Oglesby wrote to Car And Driver for its September 2016 issue. “If so, you need the Mustang.”

    The more things change, the more they stay the same. You’d think when they made the fifth (and now I suppose the sixth gen) F-car that they would have addressed the number one complaint of fourth gens, but if you sit in a fourth gen today it’s practically an open-air greenhouse in comparison.

    • 0 avatar
      VW16v

      Great points. The Mustang reaches out to a broader spectrum of buyers. Camaro on the other hand is reaching out to a select type of driver that is focused on speed and not everyday driving. The Camaro is just not a car you can immediately jump in and feel comfortable driving.

      • 0 avatar
        TMA1

        In that case, it sounds like the Camaro is reaching out to the Corvette buyer. Supposedly the Corvette will move further upscale with the C8 because of lagging sales, which is apparently where they want to place the Camaro. In the lagging sales spot. Good move…

        • 0 avatar
          raph

          Still serving the Camaro market. The 4th gen was knick-named “engine in a box” by the F-body crowd because it sacrificed livability for performance as the driver and passenger seemed to be an afterthought like some reborn Indy 500 sidecar machine.

          The 5th gen IIRC improved on this somewhat but GM slavishly produced a production car as close to the concept as possible.

          I get the impression that GM planned on a lot of 5th gen buyers were going to step up to a 6th gen car.

          I also remember GM talking about why the front loaded the SS so much as the typical Camaro SS buyer tended toward a fully loaded car.

          So it seemed to me that they wanted to appeal heavily to the 5th gen crowd.

    • 0 avatar
      jjster6

      Who has trouble backing up a new car? Just look at the dashboard and enjoy the hi-def view from the bumper. It has never been easier to back up a car. Quit complaining about non-existent issues.

      • 0 avatar
        jimbob457

        You are saying that the customer is wrong. Bad idea if you want to stay in business.

      • 0 avatar
        raph

        Back up cameras provide a decent view straight back and somewhat to the side which is fine if you don’t have to worry about cross traffic.

        • 0 avatar
          jjster6

          Cross traffic alert systems are spectacular. And no, I’m not saying the customer is wrong. The Camaro does have some visibility issues. I haven’t driven one but I have driven lots of cars with backup cameras, parking sensors, and cross traffic alert systems. They are amazingly good and making parking very simple. I think anyone complaining about backing up a modern car hasn’t actually tried to do so.

          • 0 avatar
            05lgt

            You’re killing me. You havent driven it, but anyone complaining (including the story mentioned ex Camaro shopper who I imagine HAS driven more than one) hasn’t tried it? Don’t you see the irony?

          • 0 avatar

            I have a 2017 2SS Camaro Convertible and I can confirm, the backup camera and cross traffic alerts are EXCELLENT in this vehicle! Never have an issue parking or getting out of a spot.

          • 0 avatar
            jjster6

            @05lgt

            I have tried plenty of cars with backup cameras and cross traffic alerts, including the previous generation Camaro. I am quite confident in my assertion that anyone who complains about backing up is whining about a non-existent issue. Apparently TCBRacing agrees and drives a current generation Camaro.

  • avatar
    Ermel

    I still can’t get my head around the concept of automakers building cars that dealers then have to sell. If I ever were to buy a new car, of course I’d want it to be just the way I want it, i.e. built to order. That’s the only conceivable reason to spend that much additional money over a used one.

    • 0 avatar
      redliner

      There are many, many negative things about the manufacturer/dealer retail model. However one of the advantages is that the dealers act as a demand buffer. GM can keep the factory humming along and paying it’s fixed costs while dealers figure out where to park all the extra inventory.

      Of course, this only works for so long.

      It will be interesting to see how Tesla manages demand fluctuations as it moves to higher volumes, since most of their cars are built to order. One month they may have to hire temp workers, and then they may announce lay-offs the next month.

      • 0 avatar
        Mandalorian

        Selling new cars is only a part of what dealers do, and not a profitable one at that. The money is in parts, service, and used sales. The Automakers exist to MAKE AUTOs, that’s what their companies do. Boutique manufactures like Tesla and run the whole show, but if GM/Ford/Toyota/etc was responsible for all of the staff/facilities/logistics of all their dealerships, it would balloon out of control.

        • 0 avatar
          danio3834

          It depends on the dealer’s strategy. There are still a lot of dealers out there who make their gross up front, and have no idea how to make a profit in fixed operations. Mostly smaller stores, though. The bigger group owned stores usually strive for volume to make their manufacturer bonuses at the end of the month and take a lot of skinny deals. They usually have strong guidelines for their fixed ops as well, but they mostly look to fixed ops for absorption of expense. New car sales can still be profitable, especially once finance is included, and is almost always the major focus of the dealer principal.

        • 0 avatar
          redliner

          @Mandalorian Ruggles is that you?

        • 0 avatar
          Erikstrawn

          The annual shareholder statements I get say that parts and service is about 10% of the net. New and used car sales is where the money is at – and the split depends on how hot the used car market is.

    • 0 avatar
      Higheriq

      It’s part of how factory Sales Managers do business: “Hey Mr. Dealer, in order to get you those 100 additional Silverados or Tahoes that you need, you’re going to have to take 20 Camaros. Oh, you need 30 Corvettes this quarter, they come as a package deal with 10 Camaros. Take ’em or leave ’em.”

  • avatar
    Zackman

    I think Chevy finally ran out of buyers with eyes good enough to see out of the car adequately.

  • avatar
    gearhead77

    I’ve had my share of two door cars with bad sightlines. I’ve had a lot of foreign cars, specifically Hondas, with tall greenhouses.

    I cannot get past the bunker that is the Camaro. Driving safely is all about seeing and the Camaro is terrible. Just like the bargain basement interior in the old cars (let’s say 84-2002) was a dealbreaker, the outside visibility is a killer in this one. I don’t care what the performance numbers are. If I ever want a “pony car”, I’m going to the Ford store.

  • avatar
    Steve_S

    When designing the 6th gen they spoke to their base and they said don’t change the roof. The new Camaro is a better car than the new Mustang in performance and interior appointments but you pay for that.

    A 2SS optioned how I’d want is $46k over $50k if I wanted a convertible which I would so its out of my price range.

    • 0 avatar
      TrailerTrash

      Steve-s
      This is my point…that anybody can build a superior sports car IF vision, cargo entry and volume or getting in or out were of no concern.
      However, in the real world, seeing is important. Having to do the whole package does limit the options.

      • 0 avatar
        hubcap

        It’s more than that. This car has better sight lines than the last. That last car outsold the Mustang and Challenger. This is about the Mustang getting markedly better.

    • 0 avatar
      ilkhan

      The number 1 complaint on the 5th gen was visibility. So they make visibility even worse on the 6th. GM’s “base” are idiots. I’ll go enjoy my 2016 Mustang… and I’ll be able to see out of it!

      • 0 avatar
        hubcap

        Visibility is better on the sixth.

        • 0 avatar
          TrailerTrash

          where do you get that?
          My impressions from reading the reviews is it has gotten worse.
          Including the trunk opening.

          • 0 avatar
            hubcap

            “where do you get that?”

            By driving it.

            I don’t remember how big the trunk opening was but I can say that neither car had an opening I’d say was sufficient. A lift back would solve this.

            What’s funny is that given a Corvette and a Camaro I’d expect most people would feel that the Corvette, not the Camaro, would feel cramped.

            That is not the case though (at least for me).

            For what it is, the C7 is a comfortable car and decidedly less cramped than a Camaro.

            Might I add that if you have questions about a car and are able, go look at and drive it yourself. That way you have opinions formed from your own experiences and not the myriad and sundry opinions which float around the peanut gallery.

          • 0 avatar
            TrailerTrash

            I always do test drive cars. Don’t get the chance as often as I used to, but still do a lot of test driving.

            I agree with your opinion on the new Vet. Seems a lot of older gents in my retirement community(golf country club) got theirs right away when they were released. I loved the drive…but still don’t like the hard lines in the newest one, nor do I like the long hood. But I feel this way about the Mustang as well. I guess this is one reason I am not a fan of the RWD car in everyday driving.
            Perhaps for drag racing, but not for living with.

            And I do think the NEW Mustang is a better designed and laid out car. And this is the real reason people are buying it more today.

      • 0 avatar

        “…visibility even worse on the 6th…”

        Where did you see this statement? The 6th generation DOES have better visibility. You enjoy that slow Mustang and I’ll enjoy seeing you in my rear view…

    • 0 avatar
      raph

      I need to check out a new Camaro in person just for the interior. I’m not that impressed with all the photos. Especially the infotainment pod thingy. Functionally its pronounced nature might be good but it feels tacked on rather than integrated.

  • avatar
    RedRocket

    You would think that with that much inventory they would be stacked up like cordwood on dealer lots. But around me, dealers have virtually no Camaros in inventory. All they seem to have here are pickups, SUVs and Cruzes. Hard to sell something you do not have.

    • 0 avatar
      VW16v

      Sometimes dealers have separate lots to hold inventory. This makes it look like a smaller supply to artificially keep prices up. Local dealers only keep about 10 cars of each model upfront. But they have a separate lot with a 50 to 100 autos of each model.

      • 0 avatar
        James2

        Just find your nearest harbor. New cars neatly lined up as far as the eye can see. In the case of one Honda dealer near me, he leased excess shopping center parking spaces for his inventory.

        • 0 avatar
          RedRocket

          Not many found in online inventory searching either. They just don’t have them.

          • 0 avatar
            ToddAtlasF1

            Nobody said anything about there being lots of Camaros. The problem is that the ones they have on hand constitute 129 days worth of sales. Chevrolet has about 3,000 dealers who have 26,212 new Camaros according to cars.com.

  • avatar

    Pony cars, have always been “toys” more than practical transportation devices.
    Obvious that anyone will only sell so many toys, before the toy market gets saturated.

    The latest from Automotive News http://www.autonews.com/article/20160822/RETAIL01/308229984/as-sales-sputter-are-muscle-cars-the-canaries-in-the-industry-coal

    It seems the entire pony car market is down in the US.

    • 0 avatar
      jim brewer

      I disagree.

      These are meant to be fun daily drivers. I can’t think of anything that would more reliably take the fun out of a car than the two things mentioned.

      • 0 avatar

        A proper pony car with a healthy V8 is a daily driver, transportation to deal with urban congestion in a commute. These cars are most visible on week ends than during the week commuting.

        In winter they are almost non existent on any road. The individual that drives a Camaro-Mustang-Challenger in winter with snow, is often perceived as not being able to afford his “toy” and having to drive it all year long.

        Star having fun day in and out with a healthy V8 in a pony car, and the maintenance costs will increase proportional to the level of fun derived.

        • 0 avatar
          hubcap

          “The individual that drives a Camaro-Mustang-Challenger in winter with snow, is often perceived as not being able to afford his “toy” and having to drive it all year long.”

          I live in Florida now so pony/muscle/sports cars are driven year round. I grew up in the northeast rhough and knew plenty of people who drove these types of cars in the winter.

          So instead of saying that the individual is often perceived a certain way perhaps you should state that YOU perceive the individual that way.

    • 0 avatar
      hubcap

      Depends on how big your family is. There are plenty of singles and couples who use pony cars as a practical family car which fits THEIR needs.

      If I we’re single or if it was just my wife and I, I’d have no problem at all using a Mustang as a daily driven, practical car.

      Can it do what a CUV can? No, but it’s not designed to. I don’t see them as toys. When it comes to toys I’d say Ariel Atom or Polaris Slingshot.

    • 0 avatar
      houstonhawkeye

      Although these can make great toys, they can also be a solid daily. I use my ’16 Mustang as a daily driver, and i have no problem stowing myself, my wife, and my 8 and 10 year old in it to get around town. On longer trips we take my wife’s 4Runner, but the much derided back seat is deep and low enough to work for us at least. As always, of course your mileage may vary.

    • 0 avatar
      bachewy

      Disagree. Many young men, and women, buy them because they’re sporty and CAN be affordable.
      The halo cars such as GTxxx, Hellcat and Z28 are the toys that aren’t drive daily (with exceptions here and there).

      • 0 avatar
        Frylock350

        I believe a large chunk of the allure of a Charger Hellcat is that you can smoke 99.9% of what pulls up next to you at a stoplight and still take the whole family in comfort.

    • 0 avatar
      ToddAtlasF1

      Pony cars certainly haven’t always been “toys.” The hundreds of thousands a year that bought them in the ’60s used them for everything. Children didn’t need ‘car-seats,’ so the small back seats of pony cars were perfect for carrying them. Nobody had a CUV, so people put snow tires on their cars if they lived where it snowed. A ’65 Mustang on snow tires was as good as a ’65 Falcon on snow tires. In the early ’80s, it was still pretty much the same in terms of pony cars being owned by a broad swath of the population who used them as primary vehicles. Most pony cars were also completely pathetic performers during their first twenty years of existence. There were performance versions, but the volume was usually in the cars that could barely get out of their own way and would have been lost on a race course. They were anything but toys.

  • avatar
    LS1Fan

    The fifth gen as it was rivaled the SR71 Blackbird for cockpit visibility. It’s a bad sign when lowering the convertible top is a checklist item prior to parallel parking.

    What was in the fifth gens favor ; interior space. It was a big car inside , which matters when going about the 90% of vehicular affairs one does.

    The Alpha platform tossed out that advantage and made the visibility issue worse. GM forgot the lesson of the late 1990s F body- they have to make a practical car first before making it fast.

    • 0 avatar
      Trucky McTruckface

      This. The old car was already pathetically packaged. The new car is even worse overall, but hey, at least it’s now priced several thousand dollars more than the competition, right? …Right?

      Even the sh*tty Fox Mustangs won real-world comparos against the faster, better handling F-bodies because they had broader appeal and were easier to live with. 20 years later, GM continues to double down on performance bragging rights while Ford has made more comprehensive refinements. Since the more base motors comprise the bulk of sales, (regardless of whether they’re headed to the rental counter first or not) surprise, surprise, the Mustang comes out the winner in the long run.

      I own a new Mustang and previously owned the last-generation car. Both times, I looked at the Camaro first and both times I walked away completely disappointed.

  • avatar
    CarnotCycle

    Typical Local Area Man going down road can’t tell difference between latest Camaro and a 5th gen. That is problem for automobile that basically exists to be a rolling social signal.

    People will suffer (visibility) for the sake of fashion; but they will not do it to wear last year’s style.

  • avatar
    SCE to AUX

    I predict a 4- to 6-week shutdown of Camaro production at Lansing this fall, while GM desperately tries to clear the shelves.

    GM will never do what’s needed (an 8- or 9-week shutdown), so they’ll take a half-measure instead.

    They’ll disguise the deep discounts as holiday sales events.

    • 0 avatar
      Dave M.

      I understand the concept, but at what point does attractive price trump usefulness? I can see that happening in the sedan or CUV markets; not personal coupes.

      I’ve never been a Camaro fan, but do recognize that Chevy built a well-handling road car for a very limited market. It was intentional; perhaps the old “pony car wars” comparos are no longer valid.

  • avatar
    hubcap

    I think this is due more to a exponential improvement to the Mustang than to the Camaro’s faults.

    The new Camaro is a better car overall than the old one. It has better sight lines, a better interior, more performance, and is over all a better car.

    Let’s not forget that the old car, which was worse in just about every way when compared to the new, outsold the Mustang and Challenger.

    IMO, the Mustang, which previously seemed to be phoned in by Ford got much better. Think about this. In North America, Mustang is the car that most represents the Ford brand.

    Now go take a look at an S197 car and ask yourself if it looks, both inside and out, like a car that represents the entire brand. I say it doesn’t. Not even close.

    The exterior was a bit too workaday and the interior is flat out below par-hell, let’s just call it a triple bogey and be done with it. It’s interesting how the Camaro’s interior got deservedly criticized but no much was said about the Mustang when it really wasn’t mush better.

    Enter the S550. A reworked exterior that has old Mustang pony car clues but also possesses an elegance that the Camaro just can’t match. The car now has an interior that’s at least worthy of the car which represents the Ford brand and it has the performance to match. Not as much as the Camaro, but it has enough.

    Add to that the less bunker like cockpit and lower price and you’ve got a hit. And if Ford want’s to address the performance deficit they can start by making a more aggressive performance pack (just let owners have a choice of wheels because the ones that come with it aren’t anything I’d want).

    • 0 avatar
      LS1Fan

      The previous gen Mustang wasn’t a bad car- and I say that as a Camaro owner.Nor was it slow. The newer Mustang is a better car but that’s not the whole story.

      The outgoing Camaro is a more practical vehicle then the 6th Gen, and the performance improvements on the latter car are irrelevant to most buyers. That’s the big reason why GM can’t move these.

      Styling isn’t the reason, and here’s why; if the current car looks too much like the old one and the old one sold well, then the decline would reasonably not be as precipitous. There’s have to be some other factor at work; like how the new Camaro is totally impractical for ordinary use.

      Basically the 4th Generation has been reincarnated in a day and age when the Mustang actually is a decent car . The sales figures will be similarly resurrected.

      This is what happens when a car company listens to the enthusiasts- they make a specialized product unappealing to the masses needed to pay for it.

      • 0 avatar
        hubcap

        “The outgoing Camaro is a more practical vehicle then the 6th Gen…”

        I agree, but by how much? Yeah, the previous car has a slight practicality edge but to me they’re pretty much two birds of a feather.

        You’re right the previous Mustang wasn’t a bad car but Ford didn’t pay much attention to detail. These things are subjective but the new Mustang looks much better than the older one. Not just different, but better. Inside and out.

        What makes the new Camaro totally impractical for ordinary use? And how do you define ordinary use.

        This has nothing to do with a car company listening to enthusiasts. This has everything to do with a car company making a wrong decision based on what they thought would sell well.

        It happens. Sometimes you hit a homer and others you wiff.

        Enthusiast cars still exist and some sell very well. Manufacturers will ask enthusiasts what they think but those answers are not edicts.

        Noone is is using only what enthusiasts say to build a business case for a car.

        —> “This is what happens when a car company listens to the enthusiasts- they make a specialized product unappealing to the masses needed to pay for it.” <—

        I just wanted to reemphasize this and I'm actually surprised you said it. It seems to be the new mating call of the Best and Brightest.

        IMO, the Camaro's troubles have nothing to do with it being an enthusiast car and everything to do with questionable design decisions and a higher msrp.

        This can and does happen with many types of cars. You seem to hone in on "enthusiast car" but that's not the issue. Bad design of a car that happens to be an enthusiast vehicle is.

        • 0 avatar
          LS1Fan

          Even in its decreased state, the 2016 Camaro is outselling most other enthusiast oriented 2 doors by far.

          That doesn’t count to me as “selling very well” . Even the volume of the Mustang is a pittance compared to the Camry, Malibu, or other standard cars.

          “Noone is is using only what enthusiasts say to build a business case for a car.”

          I do recall one of the biggest complaints hurled against the 5th Gen Camaro was its size. “Great Car, but fat” was the motto generally found in every enthusiast review of the car.

          So what did GM do? They shrunk it by putting it on the Alpha platform, just like the press and fans said they wanted. Unfortunately GM didn’t listen to their customers, the people actually buying the cars. See the people who live with the vehicles actually need good visibility and interior space, not less of it.

          Had GM simply refreshed the 5th Gen and pumped dev dollars into making the interior more comfy, they’d be much better off on the sales charts.

          • 0 avatar
            hubcap

            “That doesn’t count to me as “selling very well””

            It’s all relative. I wouldn’t expect a two door performance/sports car to sell as well as a regular four door compact or mid-size.

            I run a media production company. A comparison of revenues and profit with Penguin or Simon and Schuster or Lucas Film would look pretty lopsided.

            But I don’t use them to determine how we performed. Why would I?

            You say GM didn’t listen to their customers. How do you know this? Though visibility is better, the car has similar sight lines and still has a bunker feel.

            Something that was present on the previous car and something that Camaro BUYERS allegedly didn’t mind.

            So, as you say, people living with the cars actually need good visibility but they didn’t mind not having it.

            The platform isn’t the problem. It’s a combination of things. The design decision being one of them.

          • 0 avatar

            Camaro transaction prices — up $3,584 over last year according to Kelley Blue Book — as evidence the “car is doing really well.”

  • avatar
    Snail Kite

    They’re just too expensive. I see healthy discounts on Mustangs but Camaros are being advertised at almost full price.

  • avatar
    ceipower

    The GM designers ran out of tastefull Camero designes apparently , and just went too far. The new front end looks comic-book aggressive IMO , and the simple rear end treatment redo went from just O.K. to change for the sake of change. The chop-top look is getting tiresome as well as impractical.

  • avatar
    PrincipalDan

    I remember when the last design came out the V6 black steelies version was popping up like weeds. I’m not seeing that now. The slow trickle of them that I see are either loaded to the gills or have barcodes on them for the return to the rental counter.

  • avatar
    ZCD2.7T

    Ironic that the packaging/practicality constraints of the “Alpha” platform seem to be torpedoing Camero sales in much the same way that they did ATS sales.

    Hopefully the teams in charge of GM’s platforms will eventually come to realize that success in the modern automotive market requires precious little in the way of compromise.

  • avatar
    APaGttH

    So was Alpha a flop?

    I remember there was hand wringing in the media before the ATS launch that Alpha was a troubled platform. Some of the predictions weren’t true, but some others were.

    It seems on all the Alpha vehicles the money spent to make a “drivers” car in a sense of ride and responsiveness (I haven’t read a bad review on the ATS when it comes to road manners) but left no money for say interiors that didn’t look like they were made by the Coleman corporation from melted down coolers.

    The ATS is darn close to a flop – basically is. The Camaro appears to be joining it.

    • 0 avatar
      28-Cars-Later

      Alpha: Cursed by Driving Excitement.

    • 0 avatar
      PrincipalDan

      And how about the whole dang thing is way too expensive compared to its competitors. Is that because GM is greedier than Ford or because they really haven’t gotten manufacturing a development costs under control?

      When you can get a Coyote Mustang with an aftermarket supercharger from Lebanon Ford for $39,999 which is the Camaro SS’s MSRP basically, someone should be panicking in the Ren Cen.

      • 0 avatar
        hubcap

        “When you can get a Coyote Mustang with an aftermarket supercharger from Lebanon Ford for $39,999 which is the Camaro SS’s MSRP basically, someone should be panicking in the Ren Cen.”

        Panicking in the Ren Cen???

        Pedestrians, other drivers, bicyclists, motorcyclists, diners eating in roadside cafes, boaters traveling along waterways that are adjacent to roads, highway workers and a host of others should all be panicking with the knowledge that such an animal is roaming the streets.

        But really, of the total number of Mustangs sold, how many are coming with that supercharger package? Someone might be panicking at the Ren Cen, but definitely not for the reason you stated.

    • 0 avatar
      ZCD2.7T

      Right – the compromises are that the platform apparently allows for awesome dynamics, but not much passenger and cargo space. That doesn’t play in 2016….

      • 0 avatar
        APaGttH

        Apparently not – especially when you look at the Mustang that has had an interior go decidedly upscale in the last 5 to 10 years, and has always had a more practical interior.*

        * Not that any of the pony cars or wannabe competition have practical interiors in general. **

        ** Well OK, the Challenger can carry 4 in relative comfort and has a real trunk, but it doesn’t compare in the handling department of the other offerings. ***

        *** Yes, the handling is better than the pony cars of yore but it still isn’t as good as the competition – I didn’t say it could only go in a straight line. ****

        **** Yes if you throw the hammer down in a Hellcat and try to turn at the same time bad things will happen, I get the concept of handling bank account. *****

        ***** Stop being so damn pedantic!

    • 0 avatar
      RedRocket

      Nothing wrong with the ATS interiors except no usable rear seat space.

      • 0 avatar
        APaGttH

        Which is a bit of a big problem – the instrument cluster out of an ’87 Cavalier with the digital display is also better than the standard offering in the ATS.

        That sin would have incredibly easy to address, and yet GM continues to refuse.

        • 0 avatar
          ToddAtlasF1

          The C6 Corvette spent its entire production run being panned for the quality of its seats. Car and Driver said they were inferior to those in $15,000 econoboxes. After several years, GM responded by offering fancier upholstery without addressing the general floppiness of the seats’ structures. I’m willing to believe that the human refuse that writes for Car and Driver these days overstated the seats’ failings, but why not address what was considered as the one glaring fault of GM’s halo product?

        • 0 avatar
          RedRocket

          Don’t be ridiculous.

  • avatar
    Fred

    I can only think that Camaro drivers follow the first rule of Italian driving. “What’s behind me is of no concern”

  • avatar
    Whatnext

    Yep, I could never figure out why Chrysler didn’t offer their own luxed-out version of the Challenger. Use the 300 styling cues and call it an Imperial. The engineering’s already done.

  • avatar
    bswanny

    Ridiculously high pricing and no visibility coupled with looks of the prior gen kill this car. GM please stop with the polling of existing owners on what the next gen car should be. Group think is a very dangerous thing

  • avatar
    Big Al from Oz

    The Camaro doesn’t represent value.

    Look at it! Its not quite a visually appealing vehicle to own.

    That Caddy the other day would of made for a better Camaro if it was a two door with a shorter wheelbase.

    But, GM blew it on this one.

  • avatar
    JohnAZ

    When I first saw the new Mustang I looked over every line of the car trying to absorb what I liked and didn’t like about the design. I came to the conclusion that in the case of the Mustang the designers played a bigger role than the engineers in shaping the car. The lines are gorgeous, the space is adequate, and the buying public is responding accordingly.

    In the case of the Alpha platform and the Camaro and Cadillac, I suspect that the designers took a back seat to the engineers who were determined to build a much lighter, smaller, better performing platform above all else. They got what they wanted, but the public didn’t. Also the Camaro designers didn’t seem to have any idea where to go for a coherent end to end design.

    I wonder if FCA will let the designers or the engineers drive the downsizing of the next Challenger.

  • avatar
    ToddAtlasF1

    A friend of mine bought a new V8 Camaro a couple weeks ago. It is my intention to avoid him until the new wears off so he doesn’t ask me for an opinion about it.

  • avatar
    Frylock350

    I got a chance to test drive the car. Go test drive one yourselves, its fantastic. If I were to buy a sporty car, the Camaro SS ragtop gets my dollars easily. That engine is sublime.

    I think the sales boil down the the fact that Ford sells you a V8 for far less money. Also Ford sells a V6 in the base Mustang; GM sells you a turbo-4. Regardless of any actual difference in performance a V6 is seen as a better engine than a turbo-4 which is seen by that demographic a “riceburner” engine. The Challenger’s success is very easy to explain, its gorgeous. The Mustang looks like a feminine eurocar; the Challenger oozes Americana.

    • 0 avatar
      nrd515

      It does drive great. No question in my opinion, it’s the best driving of the three. Would I buy one? Hell no!

      I hate, absolutely hate the looks of it. I don’t even understand what they are going for in this car, or the last one. It’s just hideous. A second gen “tribute” could have been great, or even a 3rd gen. I never thought I would say this, but the Camaro needs a bigger greenhouse. For a long long time, I complained about greenhouses being too big, but the 5th and 6th gen Camaros have gotten to the point they are too small.

      No trunk space? No sale. I need the trunk! I use it every day. A hatchback would have solved this issue. I don’t car about the back seats. My dogs were the only passengers that ever rode in the back, but the lack of trunk space is something that’s a deal killer for me.

      And it IS too expensive. I went to the Chevy website and built a car for myself. No thanks, I can’t afford it the way I would want it, IF it looked good and had a usable trunk.

      As a 3 time F-Body owner, this saddens me. It will be another Challenger for me, about 2 years from now.

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