By on June 1, 2016

equality

It’s common for younger and more progressive members of the B&B to lambaste me as a sort of grunting throwback to a past that never truly existed, a Triceratops grazing contentedly through a field of single mothers, pernambuco-necked guitars, and filets mignon while the participation-trophy-shaped asteroid of genderless, sexless, non-meritocratic, feelings-centric, pansy-assed Millennial culture streaks overhead to announce my impending doom. Maybe they’re right — but it doesn’t feel that way to me. The truth is that for most of my life I never really sympathized much with traditional Western culture or “caveman fragile masculinity” or any of that stuff.

When I was a young man, I saw myself as a progressive, non-traditional thinker. If there was a machine out there, so to speak, I wanted to rage against it. Obviously, I’m not exactly Charleston Heston, you know? I listen to disco music and order lime green cars and refer to Robert Bly every chance I get. Yet, here I am, taking a last stand against the overwhelming hordes of adult-kickball players and streaming-video addicts. If nobody else is going to stand up for the culture that lifted us from the caves of Altamira to the Manhattan Project, then I’m going to do it. You could argue that I’m in the position of the last Byzantine emperors: making a last-ditch stand to preserve a system to which I was not born.

With all of this in mind, I’d like to sit down with all of you and take a serious, considered look at the video below the jump. I’d like to argue that it represents several important trends in modern culture — trends of which many TTAC readers approve in theory but might be surprised to see taken to their logical extremes.

It’s eleven minutes long, but the money shot, so to speak, is at the 4:41 mark. Here’s a brief description of the video for the readers who cannot or will not watch:

A cruiser-style motorcycle is driving down the freeway at what appears to be considerably above the speed limit. An older Chevrolet Tahoe signals and moves over into the lane. The rider is angered at this, so he slams the Tahoe’s left-side rear-view mirror shut. At that point, the Tahoe pursues the driver through a neighborhood for about three minutes. At first, the motorcyclist, who is a white-sounding man carrying a white female passenger, attempts to evade the Tahoe. When he is unable to do so, he brake-checks the Tahoe, which does not slow down.

He stops the bike and gets off, leaving his passenger on the bike, and goes back to have an angry, foul-mouthed conversation with the African-American woman who is driving the Tahoe. There are two children in the car with the driver. He then gets back on his bike and rides off. At some point, he realizes that the Tahoe is going to continue to follow him.

The motorcyclist and his passenger get off the bike. He exchanges more words with the woman, who then gets out of the car and attacks him. He knocks her down with an open-faced slap to the face. At that, the driver expresses surprise that he would hit a woman. She calls the police and reports that she has been assaulted, crying loudly the entire time. All parties wait for the police to arrive, each confident that the other person is guilty of assault.

As you’d expect, both sides of this incident have found considerable support on social media.

Team Biker says:

  • The Tahoe shouldn’t have moved over into an occupied lane.
  • The Tahoe should not have pursued the motorcyclist in a threatening manner.
  • The Tahoe driver should not have instigated a physical confrontation.
  • The Tahoe driver especially should not have done any of these things with her children in the car.

Team Tahoe says:

  • That was a legal lane-change, signaled in advance, and a vehicle driving with the flow of traffic wouldn’t have had any problems with it.
  • If the biker really thought he was in danger, why did he brake-check a 5,000-pound truck?
  • Why did the biker instigate a verbal confrontation?
  • It’s not fair for men to hit women.

My opinion, for what it is worth, is that both sides are responding to a narcissistic injury. Not an actual injury. The biker wasn’t really endangered by the Tahoe’s move, and flipping the mirror shut on a $5,000 truck isn’t exactly equal to keying a new Ferrari in terms of economic damage. Yet both of these people felt these minor affronts justified having a physical confrontation that endangered the lives of their children or spouse.

Let’s face it: when you think of vehicles most likely to contain unlicensed handguns, wouldn’t you consider a cruiser-style motorcycle and a ragged-out old Tahoe with tinted windows both right up there on the top of that list? That didn’t stop these idiots for a moment.

Ironically, both participants showed remarkable restraint in their actual aggressive actions, even though their words and behaviors were beneath contempt. At any time, the Tahoe could have crunched that bike; when the biker knocked the woman down, he could have stomped her to death right in front of her children had he been of a mind to do so. Neither one of the participants was truly enraged. They were just angry, because their importance had been questioned. The biker was pissed because the Tahoe didn’t recognize his right to haul ass down the middle lane in the freeway and have everybody yield to his awesomeness. The Tahoe driver was pissed because somebody touched the mirror on her shitty old truck.

What I’d like to suggest to you is that this incident could not have happened in any previous era of American culture. Start with this: both parties see themselves as victims. The Hells Angels of old would chain-whip a “cager” who dared to cut them off, but they always saw doing so as an act of aggression, not a response to victimization. No Hells Angel would whine to his GoPro about the mean lady in the Tahoe who took his lane away. The woman, as well, sees herself as a victim. “You gonna apologize?” she says at the beginning of the confrontation. We live in a world where everybody thinks they’re owed an apology.

I would also suggest that the biker’s decision to knock the woman down and then crow about it is a uniquely modern occurrence. Most of us who were born before 1980 were raised never to fight a woman. Sure, you might hit your wife out of anger or to discipline her — and I’m not defending that mentality — but you wouldn’t demean yourself to engage in a scrap with some random woman on the street. Nor would most men of my generation feel totally comfortable engaging a woman in an argument like the one our biker friend repeatedly rekindles. When you consider the fact that the biker is (probably) white and the woman is black, things get even more complicated. I was raised to treat women of color with extra deference, both because it was the historically decent thing to do and because my upbringing would not necessarily equip me to know what, in particular, a woman of color would take offense at hearing.

What we’re seeing here is equality in action, folks. The white male biker and the black female “cager” mother are on equal ground in 2016. He’s free to abuse her in the argot of the streets; she’s free to make it physical; he’s free to knock her down. Only when she’s on the ground does everybody understand the ridiculousness of the situation, and then only briefly before the Sacred Mantles of Victimhood are donned once more.

All of which leaves me wondering. I can’t see getting that angry about somebody cutting me off with a signal. About twice a day during my 38-mile round-trip commute-by-motorcycle, some moron cuts me off without a signal, even though I rarely exceed the speed of traffic. I don’t attack their cars. If I did, and they followed me, I wouldn’t give them a dozen chances to kill me. If I decided that I needed to confront them, and I realized it was a black mother, I’d probably attempt to be conciliatory. If she got out of her car and ran at me, I’d probably run away from her just to avoid being crowned by the media as the next George Zimmerman. Until recently, I was under the impression that those various behaviors — vague chivalry, treating people of color with extra courtesy, giving mothers the benefit of the doubt — constituted decency. But maybe it’s all just internalized racism and bigotry and cisgender misogyny and stuff like that. Still, I’m reminded once again of the Roman Empire, this time a scene from Gladiator:

Marcus Aurelius: And what is Rome, Maximus?

Maximus: I’ve seen much of the rest of the world. It is brutal and cruel and dark, Rome is the light.

Marcus Aurelius: Yet you have never been there. You have not seen what it has become.

Get the latest TTAC e-Newsletter!

172 Comments on “Is This Road Rage, Third-Wave Feminism, Or Karma?...”


  • avatar
    Toad

    At least these two didn’t exchange gunfire in the middle of the street and kill an innocent bystander in the process. Calling themselves victims instead of killing each other is probably the lesser evil; more like a middle school playground scuffle than a scene from Mad Max.

    Matching set of self righteousness, indifference to other people and social norms, plus just plain bad driving. On the whole they deserve each other.

    • 0 avatar
      Superdessucke

      I know, you almost hate to say it but this was a pretty tame and almost Leave it to Beaver style encounter by today’s standards. If things keep going the way they are, we will look back on this with misty eyes remembering when people had self restraint. 69 people were shot this weekend in Chicago alone! And it’s getting worse.

    • 0 avatar
      DeadWeight

      Jack often writes well opining on substantive things, but he’s merely conflating this situation into much more than it really is, which is a mild (and entirely immature) act of “road anger” on both drivers’ parts, followed by an assault and battery upon the black female by the biker.

      It really is that simple, and Jack’s claims that the Tahoe driver was legally less entitled to being free of an unwanted assault and battery because she followed the brake-checking and all-important biker is simply silly.

      If I were the LEO arriving on scene post incident, with accurate witness statements and a chance to review this video, I’d have arrested the biker on misdemeanor A&B, and if I were the DA handling the matter, I’d probably ask the judge (post-conviction or guilty/nolo contendre plea) to give the biker a weekend in jail on one of the nicer weekends during the summer, make him attend bike safety school for toddlers, make him attend anger management courses, and give him 100 hours of community service.

      • 0 avatar
        NickS

        I am not by any means defending the motorcyclist but I seriously doubt the easy pronouncement from the LEO as you suggest. A well trained and professional LEO won’t be swayed by emotional factors like a guy hitting a woman, or a white person hitting a person of color or parent/caregiver.

        The flip side to your analysis is that the LEO will see in the video both the lane change/intrusion and the mirror flip as one-offs that could have been dismissed by a more sane driver and rider. But the LEO will also see a Tahoe driver who deliberately and willfully uses their massive vehicle over several minutes to pursue a motorbike and endangering all other traffic, and much more so the vulnerable vehicle. The LEO will also see the Tahoe driver *initiate* physical confrontation with the biker after pursuing them. And should the LEO also take into account that the Tahoe driver did this while having two kids with her?

        I don’t know any parents or caregivers who act like this and don’t have serious impulse control issues. This is a driver who will escalate a minor situation to a dangerous one.

        And as a parent I know this for sure: unless the kids were sleeping through all this, they saw their mother model this behavior when dealing with a spontaneous annoyance. Many school districts teach kids to use the garbage tool to deal with these types of incidents. Not this mother.

    • 0 avatar
      JimZ

      “At least these two didn’t exchange gunfire in the middle of the street and kill an innocent bystander in the process. ”

      or kill one (or more) of the kids in the car. that’s been happening with depressing frequency in the city of Detroit recently.

    • 0 avatar
      Detroit-Iron

      If either of them were legally armed there would be nothing to see. If the biker had a concealed carry permit he would not have messed with the mirror, and if the woman did she would not have followed the biker. When they are illegally armed it’s called “packing” and who knows what could have happened.

  • avatar
    Halftruth

    Team Common Sense says biker is an a-hole overreacting to what appears to be a normal lane change. He was going quicker than the traffic and is the typical I-am-here-on-a-bike-part-the-waters-for-me biker.. Nope. Ride like that AND push the mirror in AND run stop signs? People like this dolt give two wheelers a bad name.

    • 0 avatar
      Zykotec

      Yeah, I think he is totally at fault here. The Tahoe is pretty far ahead of him when she start changing lanes. Also, she is not blocking him in any way either, as there is already a car ahead of them blocking him from going any faster in that lane anyway. If I were here I would seriously consider bumping into him for a second there, before coming to my senses and let him get away with being an intolerable asshole.

    • 0 avatar
      NickS

      Agreed. I am usually the rare guy who always gives deference to a bike but I cringe every time I get buzzed by some dude like that. Even when looking out for bikes there is no way I can see these guys coming.

    • 0 avatar
      Carlson Fan

      I agree, the biker was completely at fault which is why he ran at the start of it in the first place. He had no business slapping her mirror when he was the one driving like an idiot.

      But she let the fool get the best of her, and especially when you have your kids with you, as a parent you have to let it go. The way that guy rides he’ll end up splattered all over the pavement regardless. If she would have thought about that good and hard for a minute I guarantee you she would have calmed down, smiled, and been on her way.

  • avatar
    analoggrotto

    A very nicely written article which basically serves to prove the futility and pointlessness of road rage. Understanding and restraint fell in short quantity here.

    I knew I have been meaning to find my Gladiator DVD and give it a watch, damn good closing! Jack, no knife (or “sword, give me a sword!”) wielding suggestions this time?

  • avatar
    sirwired

    “Yet, here I am, taking a last stand against the overwhelming hordes of adult-kickball players and streaming-video addicts. If nobody else is going to stand up for the culture that lifted us from the caves of Altamira to the Manhattan Project, then I’m going to do it. You could argue that I’m in the position of the last Byzantine emperors: making a last-ditch stand to preserve a system to which I was not born.”

    This is Get-off-my-lawn-ism as old as time. This “overwhelming horde” of mediocrity has been complained about by the late-middle-aged and old since forever. I’m pretty sure that the first form of written language used by mankind was swiftly used to write a screed about the lazy, shiftless, spoiled, no-good-terrible-very-bad young-uns.

    Both parties were in the wrong here, and spoiled and entitled overgrown children are not exactly a new phenomenon.

  • avatar
    Jeff Waingrow

    Jack, I was born well before you, and I can testify that, despite all the hidden wrongs that existed then, there was a basic civility and decency that people showed to one another. The coarsening of our society is a complicated subject, but I trace much of it to the rise of extreme economic differences that created much more of an us v. them mentality. When I was a youngster, plumbers, doctors, mailmen, professors lived on my block. Some houses were larger than others, but those folks with more money tried not to show it. Modesty pretty much ruled the day. As things evolved, disparities in wealth and opportunity grew, and the worry started that someone was getting more than they were. The ones really manipulating the system were largely invisible to the average person. As time went on, television and movies became more violent as did some popular music. The public realm declined further in civil behavior. People grouped together according to their values and economic station, leaving the “losers” behind in miserable isolation, to brutalize each other. The public realm was more and more abandoned in favor of the private one. People turned inward to an internet world where they could find like minds and an anonymity for playing out their fantasies and fears and hatreds. Obviously, this is just the surface of things. Jack, I think, as Anne Frank famously wrote, that people are basically good. There’s evidence of it everywhere if you just look for it. But there’s plenty of evil in the land now and the direction we seem to be heading is not terribly hopeful.

    • 0 avatar
      bunkie

      I, too, was born well before Jack. While there has been some erosion in civility, it is a rose-colored fantasy that people were ever universally civil to one another.

      It’s all about our tribes. We, for the most part, have always been civil to others whom we identify as belonging to our tribe. Conversely, there is a strong tendency to view those who are not members of our tribe with fear and resentment.

      What has changed is that we can now belong to multiple tribes, adopting the stances thereof as we gather (physically or virtually) in any given tribe. These tribes each have their own mythos which enables all sort of behavior, both good and bad. The Internet acts as a megaphone for the reinforcement of these “truths”.

    • 0 avatar
      kvndoom

      This was back when your skin tone and net worth determined if you were even a human being, right? I have a feeling that all Americans didn’t see this “basic civility and decency” you speak of. “All {white} men {who are landowners} are created equal” or something like that.

      Nevermind, Bunkie’s second paragraph nailed it already.

    • 0 avatar

      “These tribes each have their own mythos which enables all sort of behavior, both good and bad. The Internet acts as a megaphone for the reinforcement of these “truths”.”

      +1000

  • avatar
    Parousia

    What I’d like to suggest to you is that this incident could not have happened in any previous era of American culture. Start with this: both parties see themselves as victims…. No Hells Angel would whine to his GoPro about the mean lady in the Tahoe who took his lane away.

    Any previous era of American Culture would not have seen the need to film (and then re-watch) themselves driving to work.

    • 0 avatar
      Frylock350

      @Parousia,

      That’s probably because they didn’t have any means to do so.

      • 0 avatar
        JimZ

        yeah, as much as I despise the bald-faced narcissism of the “selfie culture”* I can’t help but believe things would still be the same if people had smartphones and the internet a couple of centuries ago. There are too many people out there who subsist on attention.

        * seriously, on FB I see no end of people who seem to have nothing else to do with their time but take pictures of themselves in front of a mirror. Jesus effin’ Christ, what is it with them?

  • avatar
    VoGo

    I wouldn’t read too much into the actions of two people who were both making poor decisions that day. At heart, this isn’t about gender, race, motorcycle/car interactions or anything else.

    Just two adults not behaving that way.

    • 0 avatar
      brn

      I may have become so numb to race being thrown into everything, that I simply glossed over that part. I shouldn’t have and you are absolutely correct. WTF does gender or race have to do with anything we saw in the video?

  • avatar
    dwford

    The reality of today’s society is that people live inside the world of their social apps on their phones, where every conflict is resolved with a a swipe or a block – instant resolution to any problem. When people come out of their phone world bubbles and have to interact with other actual humans – that can’t be swiped away in an instant, they just don’t have the social skills to handle the face to face interaction. So the frustration of the face to face interaction and the inability to resolve it ends up expressing itself in physical and verbal outbursts.

    How many millennials do you know that struggle to formulate a cogent thought and express it verbally? It’s getting bad out there.

    • 0 avatar
      mazdaman007

      Agree with the premise of your first paragraph but in the second I think you’re stereotyping those darn kids again just like every other generation has before as it grows into middle and old age.

      I’m biased of course but my kids (22 and 19) can hold their end of an intellectual conversation quite well thank you (especially the 19 year old, I see a lawyer or politician (shudder) trying to get out :)

  • avatar
    Sam Hall

    When I rode, I knew guys who looked forward eagerly to getting the chance to slap a mirror or break a window. I thought they were asking for serious injury or death. I once had a crazy lady chase me (in my car) into a parking lot to yell at me because I gave her the finger when she honked at me after the light changed. She also blocked me in, which made me seriously consider backing into her car to escape.

    The key in these incidents is that everyone needs to calm the fuck down and walk away, not keep escalating the situation until serious violence becomes inevitable.

  • avatar
    JimZ

    I like the concept of the “narcissistic injury.” it explains so many things.

    doesn’t excuse them, but explains them.

  • avatar
    chops

    “At first, the motorcyclist, who is a white-sounding man carrying a white female passenger, attempts to evade the Tahoe. ”

    Seriously? The guy can’t lose an old Tahoe? Lame.

  • avatar
    harshciygar

    Remember when every confrontation between assholes didn’t stir the internet into a frenzy?

    Why can’t this just be a situation where two assholes got into it over a notherburger?

    Motorcyclist was an asshole for driving the way he was driving, Tahoe driver was an asshole for following said motorcycle for almost FIVE MINUTES (plenty of time for most reasonable people to cool down).

    There are no winners here, just a pair of losers and armchair generals trying to decide which is the lesser sin.

    • 0 avatar
      brn

      The biker instigated things, but I agree that both are n the wrong and both should be very embarrassed concerning their behaviors.

      I’m especially disappointed in the biker, because he’s clearly not embarrassed. A normal person would crawl into a corner and hide, but he takes the time to edit comments into the video and post it online for everyone to see that he is in the right. Pathetic.

  • avatar
    bikegoesbaa

    If you are on a motorcycle and can’t lose an old Tahoe at will, you probably shouldn’t be riding.

    I award a win to the Tahoe driver due to the rider’s lack of skill.

  • avatar
    Kenmore

    “treating people of color with extra courtesy”

    Reminds me of something… oh, yeah:

    “Katie Scarlett, there’s something I must speak to you about… You must be firm with inferiors but you must be gentle with them, especially darkies.” -GWTW

    • 0 avatar
      Jeff Waingrow

      I’m certainly not Jack’s defender, but this comment is completely gratuitous. Jack was merely being sensitive to past injuries and trying to not carry them into the present. To me at least, that’s just plain human decency.

      • 0 avatar
        Kenmore

        Yeah, well, let’s see *you* find an incidental quote that fast from a 77 year-old, 4 hour-long movie, bub.

        And I’m old, too!

        • 0 avatar
          Jeff Waingrow

          Kenmore, you’re old but you’re quick. I’ve got to give you credit. BTW, it’s the short-term memory that supposedly goes the soonest, while we can still remember the smallest details from years ago.

      • 0 avatar
        Jack Baruth

        I’m glad he wrote it, however, because it neatly illustrates the progressive trap.

        If you treat PoC differently, you’re a racist.

        If you treat them the same, you’re also a racist.

        There’s nothing you can do as a white man to escape being called racist, usually by other white men who have an agenda on their minds.

        This, incidentally, is why none of the “raysiss!” libels against Trump stick particularly well. The average Trump voter has been told he or she is racist thousands of times without much backing to the accusation and therefore he or she assumes the same is true of Trump.

        • 0 avatar
          kvndoom

          “If you treat PoC differently, you’re a racist.

          If you treat them the same, you’re also a racist.”

          Crazy times, ain’t they? You’d think the theoretical solution would be toaccept all people as equal, eliminate the ideas of “race” or “ethnicity” and make “all (wo)men are created equal” a true thing.

          …which will still fail, because people will bitch about being robbed of their cultural identity!

        • 0 avatar
          FreedMike

          “There’s nothing you can do as a white man to escape being called racist, usually by other white men who have an agenda on their minds.”

          Interesting, because I’m 52 and have NEVER been called a racist or a bigot. Not once. Not ever. Could the reason be that I’m not one?

          And you’re right, calling Trump “racist” is a libel. He’s not racist, because “Mexican” and “Muslim” aren’t races.

          But, sorry, he’s a bigot, for sure, and a sexist creep to boot. And when you support a candidate who is that way, you get tagged by the “other side.” That’s how it works.

          • 0 avatar
            Jack Baruth

            “Interesting, because I’m 52 and have NEVER been called a racist or a bigot. Not once. Not ever. Could the reason be that I’m not one?”

            At the risk of giving offense, it’s likely because you have managed to utterly insulate yourself from real-world interactions with people of color. I’ve had someone mumble “racist motherfucker” at me because I was in the first-class line at the airport and I didn’t have to wait as long for security as they did.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            Actually, I have been in the multi-racial workforce since 1979 and have never once been called a bigot, or a racist, or sexist.

            Actually, strike that…I did once have a Jewish borrower accuse me of turning his loan down because he was Jewish. Disclosing that I am, in fact, also Jewish (and some choice Yiddish curses) didn’t impress him much, as he went on to the “you don’t like self employed borrowers” line, which is just another level of bulls**t self-victimization. Folks who show negative six figure income on their tax returns generally have a hard time getting mortgages, Jewish or not.

            Probably buddies with that guy you encountered at the airport. Unfortunately there’s no shortage of people ready to blame their problems on being victimized (and I include many middle aged, white Christians in that group too).

            People like that aren’t actually calling you a bigot – they’re just advertising that they’re morons. There’s a difference, you know?

        • 0 avatar
          smartascii

          I’m with FreedMike on this one. I’m 37, so I think that makes me older than the millennials, but I’m white, I’m male, I have interactions with people of different skin colors and cultures regularly, and no one has ever called me a racist, either. They may have thought it, of course, but I think an important distinction is that people who get called racists or bigots see the individual as a part of a group and assign perceived characteristics from that group to the individual. “Black people are/like/do/don’t XXX” isn’t a statement you can make, because there’s an exception to every rule. This guy is an jerk, and this lady is entitled, and their color, socio-economic status, upbringing, etc. really don’t have anything do to with it.

        • 0 avatar

          The problem with “they’re going to call me a racist no matter what I do” mentality is that actual racists will use that as cover, just as the folks who say “you can’t criticize Israel without being accused of anti-semitism” use that to mask their Jew-hatred.

          • 0 avatar
            VoGo

            Not a helpful response, Ronnie,

            No one who consistently treats people with caring and respect can reasonably be labeled a racist.

            And plenty of people – Jews included – take issue with the current administration of Israel; it doesn’t make them anti-Israel or antisemitic. Just like plenty of Americans can be opposed to the Obama administration without hating America.

            You really should stick to cars, where your opinions are valued.

  • avatar
    luvmybeama

    “What I’d like to suggest to you is that this incident could not have happened in any previous era of American culture.” This, because if we were to go back a generation, both parties would likely have had enough knowledge of scripture to bring to mind Philippians 2:3 -“Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.” With an attitude of humility, they would better police their own actions.

    Sadly, as our moral slide continues, incidents like this are becoming more commonplace, with shoot-outs soon to replace punch-outs.

  • avatar

    “vehicles most likely to contain unlicensed handguns”

    Is there such a thing as a “licensed handgun” in some part of the USA? I think of gun registration, like hate speech laws, to be a thing of un-free foreign tyrannies.

    • 0 avatar
      Jack Baruth

      I think most major urban areas in the United States require the registration of handguns.

      Illinois makes firearms owners carry a “FOID”, which is basically a Star of David allowing police to violate their rights at will. And look how well harassing white guys from rural Illinois has worked out for the shootings in Chicago!

      • 0 avatar
        karonetwentyc

        In general, firearm licensing either does or does not take place on a state-by-state basis. There isn’t really room to get into all of the nuances of this here, but the following typically holds true:

        – For new firearm sales in a retail environment (and this includes non-private sales at gun shows), a Federal background check through NICS (National Instant Criminal background check System) is required. If it says yes, you can buy; if it says no, you can’t.

        – States may have requirements on top of that, such as waiting periods for collection, some form of licensing and / or registration with the state, waiting periods, etc. They may also prohibit person-to-person private sales or transfers, requiring them to be done through a licensed dealer.

        – In states where licensing and/or registration does take place it is normally handled on a statewide basis, not by individual municipalities. There are a couple of exceptions to this, but in general most firearms licensing regulations are written at a statewide level to allow for uniformity in registration.

        – Illinois is something of a special case. I’ve never lived there so am not an authority on the restrictions placed on FOID holders, but I do recall that the last time I drove through Illinois there were some restrictions on the movement of firearms that only applied to residents, not non-residents. Effectively, I was put in the unusual position of having greater freedom to transport my firearms through Illinois than its residents did.

        – The majority of states do not have firearm licensing. However, terminology as to what does and does not constitute a license can sometimes be confusing as some states refer to a permit to carry a concealed weapon (CCW) as a ‘handgun license’ or similar. From experience with the state we live in now: no license is required to purchase a firearm. However, if you want to carry concealed, you apply for what is called a handgun license. The term is something of a misnomer.

        I realise that this is a very high-level, generalised view of the situation, but it does cover most of the basics. It also illustrates why applying a set of regulations in one particular geographic area may not apply elsewhere (and, realistically, has a strong likelihood of only applying in the locale being discussed).

      • 0 avatar

        Extremely location specific. I’ve a friend in North Carolina, who open carries a Glock. You need a permit for concealed carry, but open is OK-no permits required. Here in NY, it is next to impossible to get a carry permit unless you are retired PD or “Judge”. Worse, unlicensed possession (by NY) is a felony, and NO, you home state license does NOT get reciprocity. I had a guy once from Texas. He stays in a trailer park (working at a local business on contract, please don’t think trash). Fight with wife ensues, verbal only-other campers call PD. Cops come, ask the usual DV question of “any guns here ?”. He hands over his pistol, thinking he’s still in Texas, and ends with a felony charge after a simple spat with his spouse. He is shocked to find out that in NY, a temporary location like his is NOT considered a “home”, it is a “vehicle”. We get a deal, but the whole incident is more of a culture shock about weapon norms than a crime.

        TL:DR Be very careful taking your weapon out of state, and by God, do not leave it in the Glove Box. “I forgot it was there” is the gun equivalent of “Oh, those drugs aren’t mine”

    • 0 avatar
      JimZ

      Michigan requires registration of handguns.

    • 0 avatar
      TMA1

      You have to get a license to buy a handgun in Maryland.

  • avatar
    mtmmo

    He shouldn’t have started the whole thing by folding in her mirror. I can understand why he did but it doesn’t make it right since he was speeding. With that being said that woman has got some serious anger issues to be pursuing him in the manner that she did – and with two kids in the car! All in all just two idiots with one of them receiving the dope slap they deserved.

  • avatar
    Wade.Moeller

    Fuck the signal. It’s an advisory of desire. It may be flashing yellow, but it doesn’t mean “Yield”.

    • 0 avatar
      Vulpine

      “Fuck the signal. It’s an advisory of desire. It may be flashing yellow, but it doesn’t mean “Yield”.”

      It’s an advisory of *intent* where the driver is saying, “If I have the room, I’m coming over.” Most states do read that as meaning ‘Yield’ as a result. Now, had she NOT signaled, the rider might have had reason for some anger. As it was, the biker in this case instigated the whole kerfuffle.

      • 0 avatar
        NickS

        Vulpine, the way I know it from driving courses, you signal the intention AND the maneuver, not just the latter as is the norm unfortunately (and where I live most virtually don’t signal for a lane change).

        Signalling doesn’t mean you have the right to go ahead. You have to make sure that your lane change will not affect anyone else’s speed (ideally), or put anyone at risk. It is a negotiation but the default rule is that you don’t have priority to move to another lane in general. Only in an emergency.

        I can’t tell from here who is doing their best. I yield to ALL bikes, and I check a lane for very fast vehicles before moving over, but some of these bikes come out if nowhere.

        • 0 avatar
          Vulpine

          @NickS:
          I’ve driven in nearly every contiguous state in the US as a private driver, not professionally or commercially. I have years of experience around the country having lived at one time or another in or near at least one major city in each region, excepting only the far northwest. What I’ve seen is that as more cars come onto the roads, the drivers get worse. Where once it was common courtesy to back off and let a signaling vehicle change lanes, today people will actually rush forward to block that lane change even if they had been riding comfortably four and five car-lengths behind the signaling vehicle. People tailgate today not because they’re trying to push the car ahead faster, but to prevent someone else from easing into that space and forcing them to fall back to a safe distance… over and over again. Worse, as was said, there are far too many drivers who simply refuse to signal and make very dangerous maneuvers for lane changes; seemingly unconscious or uncaring as to what traffic is around them or how their maneuver may affect others.

          But that is my point. People have become so self-centered that they all–nearly every one–treats the road as their own private highway; anyone else be damned if they get in “my” way. The biker in this video is a perfect example of this mindset.

          Yes, I do agree that signaling does not give you the right to maneuver arbitrarily; but it is a warning to vehicles around of the driver’s intent. That doesn’t mean the driver should immediately begin the maneuver but if said driver sees that the space is clear AND that they can make the maneuver safely without adversely affecting the traffic around them, they will. The bike in this case had plenty of time to slow down without any kind of panic maneuver and clearly should have, or switched to the next-faster lane. There was no legitimate reason for the biker’s reaction.

          Yes, some bikes do seem to come out of nowhere… when they’re doing 2x to 3x the speed limit. That is one thing that bikers do NOT have the right to do. They’re expected to obey the traffic laws just as everyone else is. But that bike was not going that much faster than traffic and again, as clearly seen in the video, had plenty of time to slow down safely without creating a “road anger” situation.

    • 0 avatar
      JimZ

      it also doesn’t mean “run up and block their lane change.” it’s not a race out there; letting someone in ahead of you is not letting them “win,” nor is it an affront to your manhood.

      look, I ride, and had that been me I’d have been either going *slightly* faster or *slightly* slower than traffic (don’t want to linger in cagers’ blind spots, you see.) She signaled, I would have been made aware of her intention, she’d have executed her lane change, and we’d both go on about our day.

      I look at it this way, if you do something on the road that wouldn’t give me a problem were I driving a car, it’s all good. It’s the *unpredictable* people who terrify riders. The idiot kid texting, the unsignaled swerve across multiple lanes, the morons who come to the end of a cross street and never actually stop moving so you have no idea if they’re going to pull out in front of you, etc.

      But none of that matters. Unless you have a badge and a citation book, it’s not on you to try to “punish” or “correct” other drivers. all you do is escalate the situation for no reason other than to make yourself feel a little less insignificant.

      • 0 avatar
        sgeffe

        It does get frustrating when you’re driving along at a comfortable speed in the left lane, passing slower traffic (at 7 or 8 over) with an entire ZIP Code behind you, and the one driver ahead in the center lane decides to pull out in front of you, sometimes requiring you to brake..and then they sit with cruise control set right to the numbers! (Like they couldn’t have waited two more seconds for one car to pass!) My reaction to that is that they saw me moving along a little faster than their goody two-shoes self would like, and wanted to teach me how to drive, by ::crabby elementary-school teacher voice:: “never exceeding the SPEED limit!”

        So I do have a habit, if there’s lots of room behind me, of speeding up if someone’s signal comes on and I’m reasonably close, because more often than not, that person will slow me down, unintentionally or not. (Conversely, if I’m stuck behind slow people, I’ll wait for a clearing, signal blinking, then unlike my example here, will actually GET UP TO SPEED and PASS the slower traffic, then move back to the right, if possible! This is where adaptive cruise comes in handy!)

        • 0 avatar
          JimC2

          “they saw me moving along a little faster than their goody two-shoes self would like”

          When I get around those ones then I usually give them a looooooonng spray of my windshield washers. It makes me feel better. I have a VERY clean windshield.

  • avatar

    I quickly discovered that I hate them both. No common sense used by either party.

    The motorcyclist used terrible judgement from start to finish. Why was he running so much faster than the rest of the traffic? Why did he put himself and his passenger in danger by not just moving over and giving the Tahoe a wide berth when it changed lanes? None of this would have happened. Well, this time anyway. I’m sure something like this would happen eventually since the rider is an arrogant a$$. If his deeds weren’t despicable enough, he had to add to it with a bunch of arrogant graphics. Once the chase began he missed hundreds of opportunities to pull over and just park it between two cars for protection and then go deal with it. Instead he made himself a moving target for a very long time.

    It’s one thing to endanger yourself in a chase like that but it’s completely irresponsible to endanger a passenger that way. Common decency dictates that a driver take every precaution to protect their passengers, motorcyclists more so due to the exposure to danger.

    Then there’s the horrible judgement exhibited by the Tahoe driver. I really don’t have to recap it do I? She could have just got his tag number and called the police if she thought she’d been seriously wronged. She didn’t do that and engaged in a magnificent display of vehicular stupidity.

    Both are idiots.

    The law if natural selection will eventually remove the motorcyclist from the equation. You’re just a fly on the bull’s a$$ when motorcycle rider picks a fight with an automobile. One swat of the tail and you’re laying in a pile of crap.

    Then there’s “the punch.” The Tahoe driver shouldn’t have done it. The motorcycle rider shouldn’t have retaliated. If his life was being threatened I would have sided with him. It wasn’t, and he hit her just because he wanted to. Which I can relate to the thought but I wouldn’t do. Not civilized.

    The whole incident spotlights the larger societal issue where it seems that people just do whatever they feel like doing without any worry whatsoever about laws and consequences.

  • avatar
    mcarr

    To quote my favorite animated character: “Idiots doing idiot things because they’re idiots.”

  • avatar
    JimC2

    This is a tragically humorous twist on that line in the Great Gatsby about what happens when two bad drivers meet each other. Biker dude probably messed up his man-bun when he fell down. Tahoe chick was probably out of breath from walking five steps.

    Tragically humorous in the Shakespearean sense… a really dumbed-down version of Shakespeare.

  • avatar
    FreedMike

    “What I’d like to suggest to you is that this incident could not have happened in any previous era of American culture.”
    ____________________________________________________________________

    Yeah, it could. C’mon. Historically speaking, people have died over far less. One of this country’s funding fathers died in a duel because of an imagined slight. Today we have road rage. Back then we had political endorsement rage.

    (Perhaps the difference is that in the “good old days,” said founding father wouldn’t have been immortalized in a hip-hop musical…)

    People have been doing stupid stuff like this since the invention of the species, well before we could see every single instance of it on YouTube.

    • 0 avatar
      JimZ

      “Yeah, it could. C’mon. Historically speaking, people have died over far less. One of this country’s funding fathers died in a duel because of an imagined slight. Today we have road rage. Back then we had political endorsement rage.”

      we only want to remember the good parts of history. We were the greatest country on earth post WWII, with unrivaled manufacturing might. But only for a few years. People ignore the fact that in the mid-50s the US auto industry was already starting to collapse. Packard went bust in the ’50s (something I’m reminded of every day I drive on I-94 past their factory which is still mostly standing,) Studebaker was ambling towards death, Nash, Hudson, and Kaiser had to merge as AMC in order to survive, etc. And this was well BEFORE anyone even entertained the idea of Japanese cars.

      then we fell into a fairly deep recession in the ’50s, then kicked of the first of many ill-fated proxy wars with the Soviet Union (Korea.)

      Post WWII was a boom time for us because we were the only power which didn’t have to rebuild. Once everyone else rebuilt and caught up, our hey-day was over.

  • avatar
    Driver8

    Chivalry is reserved for ‘ladies’.

    The in-video commentary favors against typical white bread man.

    lastly, I’ll just leave this here:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Czb4rImsph0

  • avatar
    319583076

    I like Steely Dan, too.

  • avatar
    Frylock350

    Both drivers here are in the wrong. The lady in the Tahoe is more wrong. The biker here was operating on some seriously inflated self-importance. He looks to be vastly exceeding the rate of traffic. I have no problem with speeders but just be mindful of the differential you are creating. and know that with little frame of reference to gauge your motion a driver seeing you in their side view mirror will probably underestimate your speed significantly. That’s probably what happened here. The biker had plenty of time and space to either slow down or simply take the leftmost lane. The appropriate response is to realize you were driving like a jackass and say to yourself “wow, at least I didn’t get myself and my passenger killed”. Do not provoke the other driver. What if she decided to pull out a handgun instead of just yelling at him? Got an issue with her driving? Get her plate and call the police. For the lady: you have an issue with the biker; get his plate and call the police. Let them chase him that’s what they get paid to do. The biker’s hotheaded driving and “punishment” caused the situation. The lady’s reaction was extreme and insane.

    I personally would only follow another vehicle long enough to get a plate number. Were I ever to be followed I’d drive straight to the nearest police station. When you start driving learn where the police stations in your area are. Either situation is very unlikely as I’m a very defensive driver in traffic and always yield to drivers no matter how wrong they are.

    And seriously you can’t lose a big ass Tahoe that’s speed governed? I drive a big truck; its quick in a straight line and handles well for what it is; but at the end of the day its still a 5200# truck. I seriously doubt I could ever keep up with even a low skilled motorcyclist even if I was willing to break traffic laws to do so.

    EDIT:

    For everyone lamenting some kind of moral decay or other such nonsense; its just a new generation of people viewing things differently. The “good old days” were only good for white christian men. Weren’t so good for women, minorities, LGTBQ, atheists, etc. We’ve made incredible progress on being more inclusive. We may have lost some silly pleasantries along the way but did we really need them to begin with? Formality is stupid and needs to die.

    • 0 avatar
      hreardon

      “For everyone lamenting some kind of moral decay or other such nonsense; its just a new generation of people viewing things differently. The “good old days” were only good for white christian men. Weren’t so good for women, minorities, LGTBQ, atheists, etc. We’ve made incredible progress on being more inclusive. We may have lost some silly pleasantries along the way but did we really need them to begin with? Formality is stupid and needs to die.”

      I get the point you’re making, Frylock, but I will push back some. First off, idiots like this have existed since the dawn of homo sapiens. We now have the ability, unfortunately, to easily capture said stupidity on tape for all the world to see. I have no way of substantiating this claim, other than: my gut tells me this to be true.

      “Viewing things differently” may be somewhat true, but I see this situation not so much as an issue of feigned formality or a nostalgia for the past as I do a genuine loss (or lack today) of common sense. I think that Jack’s comment about narcissistic rage is pretty spot on. It seems as though everyone goes from zero to rage-a-holic at the slightest provocation, must be treated with kid gloves and God forbid, has their thoughts or worldview challenged.

      This isn’t a get-off-my-lawn deal, it’s a fundamental shift in the way we interact with one another and about a genuine lack of respect for others. It seems that every (legitimate) mistake is treated as the end of the world, every slight must be responded to with a nuclear weapon.

      The B&B here on TTAC seem pretty much in agreement (for once!) on this issue: both are being petty, narcissistic children who each did their part to escalate tensions.

      Take a deep breath and think before acting and most problems, real or imagined, can be resolved very easily.

      • 0 avatar
        JimZ

        “First off, idiots like this have existed since the dawn of homo sapiens. We now have the ability, unfortunately, to easily capture said stupidity on tape for all the world to see. I have no way of substantiating this claim, other than: my gut tells me this to be true”

        Jeff Foxworthy’s take:

        “southerners are as smart as anybody else in this country,
        our only problem is we just cant keep the most ignorant amongst us off the television.”

      • 0 avatar
        Vulpine

        I think some people even here should watch the Disney shorts, “Freewayphobia” and “Goofy’s Freeway Troubles.” Disney did several others about driving as well, one of which I vaguely remember as “Little Blue Coupe” or something like that. But the one that comes across as most succinct to the situation is one whose title I don’t remember but clearly, albeit humorously, discussed the psychological issues of being a traveler, where the individual (Goofy) was a Road Hog in his car and then demanded the exact same privileges as a pedestrian… Essentially, The Road Is Mine To Use And You Will Make Way For Me. For now bing almost 60 years old, these films are as valid today as when they were created in the Disney Studios.

    • 0 avatar
      Chan

      I would be careful to distinguish “formality” and “manners.”

      People who lack manners REALLY grind my gears, especially in a professional setting and I would argue it’s important on the road too.

      Agree on all of your other points.

  • avatar
    "scarey"

    This “biker” is just plain STUPID. First, he is SITTING ON a 500 pound bicycle dueling with a 5000 pound truck.
    Second, here’s how it could have easily gone- he ‘closes’ her mirror, she closes HIS mirror with her fender, possibly killing or severely injuring him and his passenger. THEN IT GETS VERY NASTY. Not to mention the fact that many people now carry guns and/or knives.
    This could have been much worse.

    • 0 avatar
      seth1065

      scarey,
      Gotta agree this is 100 % on the biker, he started it, he took it up a notch by hitting her mirror and he smacked her, he is dam lucky she did not run him and his passenger down. he also could not evade a SUV, Yes the truck driver could have handled it better, but she also could have handled it much worse.

  • avatar
    Vulpine

    As usual, both are at fault, though for different reasons. Both deserve multiple traffic tickets.

    However, had the biker NOT ‘closed her mirror’, none of the rest would have occurred. The biker is clearly the one who triggered the rest as the lane change was legal as it was clearly signaled and well in front of the bike. The Tahoe was making a slow and careful lane change and the driver went out of her way to reduce risk of collision when the bike refused to yield the lane (which itself made no sense since the left lane appeared clear.)

    Don’t get me wrong; I fully understand the concern of bikers not being seen by automobile drivers. I’ve been a biker myself and far too often have had cars actively harass me on the road. Better to use the bike’s size and agility to maneuver out of trouble rather than instigate a confrontation that could result in damage, injury or worse. As a biker I would have simply moved over, completed the pass and moved back again or simply yielded and let the Tahoe in. But that’s me.

    But once the the mirror got folded the chase was on. For all the Tahoe driver knew, the biker had just broken her mirror (too many people simply don’t understand their vehicles any more and things that once would have required an expensive repair are now made to ‘give’ to some extent for safety and economy. But in the case of the wing mirrors, it’s also an indicator of how wide some vehicles have become that they’re made to fold in to save space (unlike the ones on my older pickup truck which aren’t meant to be moved at all other than viewing adjustments. Had the driver known her mirror was undamaged, maybe–just maybe–she wouldn’t have flown off the handle. What she perceived was an outlaw biker threatening her self and kids. You don’t piss of a mother bear, or any mother for that matter.

    That could have been resolved in any number of ways if both would have been far less self-centered. Courtesy could have prevented the whole issue.

  • avatar

    Jack, your sentence about a past that never existed has an extra layer of added brilliance. A debate is underway as to if Triceratops specimens aren’t just immature torosaurus specimens :)

    Anyway, there’s some geekery for the day.

    • 0 avatar
      Jack Baruth

      That’s how I will be remembered: as an immature torosaurus.

      • 0 avatar
        Frank Galvin

        “Immature Torosaurus” – jump on that Jack, great name for your coffee house side gigs, or better yet – the latest offering in custom guitars.

    • 0 avatar

      And by the way, the article is spot on, yet again. I can’t fathom this behavior, from either party. It’s demeaning. It’s…simian. Base. If I slapped every person who cut me off or otherwise did something foolish in traffic (and I’m not sure the Tahoe driver did, at least until she escalated the situation) then I’d have a sore wrist by the time I got home.

      I know this is seen as hopelessly old-fashioned and ignorant in many eyes, but I always feel like the fish on the back of my car behooves me to represent it properly and take the high road. I think it helps keep me level-headed and out of trouble. Or at least, in less trouble.

    • 0 avatar

      “Immature Torosaurus”

      Sounds like the oddest spec ops handle ever.

  • avatar
    heavy handle

    It’s just road rage. It’s not a new thing. Could have happened 30 years ago.
    There’s no such thing as a primitive sin-less (wo)man that society has corrupted. Never was.

    You are pining for an imaginary past, which is a sure marker of incipient conservatism. It’s a feeling of helplessness as the world keeps changing even though you have reached a reasonably comfortable spot in your life.

    • 0 avatar
      FreedMike

      Naw, liberals do this too. It’s about your age, not your politics.

      • 0 avatar
        heavy handle

        Small-c conservative, not big-c.

        Age is a factor, but not everybody is affected. Lots of people keep welcoming change as they grow older, and lots of people never fall into the trap of romanticizing the past.

        • 0 avatar
          Jack Baruth

          “Lots of people keep welcoming change as they grow older, and lots of people never fall into the trap of romanticizing the past.”

          True, but those people are usually either society’s undisputed winners (think of Bill Gates trying to buy change with his money, or Buddy Guy still making new records) or its undisputed losers (adjunct faculty)

        • 0 avatar
          FreedMike

          Even big-c and big-l folks do this too. I have some hardcore liberal friends who actually think the late 1960’s were some kind of societal high water mark for us. Right, because riots, a completely senseless war and watching beloved figures and politicians get assassinated on a regular basis were “Happy Days” moments. No, they weren’t. But they pine for these days, just like older conservatives pine for the return of Reagan (and conveniently forget how the guy nearly got us into WWIII, deficit-spent at a a rate that would make Obama nod in approval, and raised taxes any number of times).

          Personally, I think they just read “Fear and Loathing In Las Vegas” too many times – you know, the part where Thompson rhapsodizes about the high water mark.

          • 0 avatar
            JimZ

            I think it’s because we usually look back fondly at our adolescent/teenage years, when everything seemed great because we either didn’t see or couldn’t yet grasp the magnitude of the bad s**t.

    • 0 avatar

      I’m a whopping 36, and I can tell you without a doubt in my mind that at least here in the southeast there’s been a significant erosion of common courtesy and a significant increase in road rage, to the point that I see it all the time now.

      I think it’s probably the result of multiple factors, including the rise of traffic density and the era of the distracted driver being upon us, but no matter the cause, it’s definitely more common now, and one is not guilty of imagining the past as being perfect (it wasn’t), solely because they can see the obvious increase in frequency in front of their eyes.

      • 0 avatar
        heavy handle

        Is there a “significant increase in road rage”?
        A quick search shows that articles with data say no, but articles that are impression-based say yes.
        I’m not an expert, but it may be a parallel phenomenon to the fact that violent crime peaked in the US in the early 1970s, while outrage about violent crime never stops growing.
        The fact that lots of people are discussing an incident that involved a shove and some shouting shows that we (as a society) are very sensitized to this kind of incident.
        A much older friend once told me that he used to carry a huge combination wrench, greased on one end only, under his driver’s seat to deal with (what we now call) road rage. This would have been in the 1950s. Hardly seems like an era with more common courtesy and less violence.

        • 0 avatar
          FreedMike

          I visited NYC in the mid-’80s and once saw two cabbies hop out of their cabs on a busy street (I want to say it was Central Park South) and hold up traffic so they could beat each other with tire irons.

          • 0 avatar
            VolandoBajo

            Freed Mike,

            I moved out of NYC around eighty, went back several months later. Went to an early Sunday martial arts class at my old NYC dojo, which is in the teens, just east of 8th Ave.

            Walked over to 8th with my ex- to look for some breakfast. Sundays at around ten am, 8th Ave was almost deserted. A handful of cabs and a pair of huge garbage trucks the only vehicles in sight for blocks.

            And the two mega sized garbage trucks are trying to fender nerf each other out of the lanes that they are in, on a five or six lane, one way street, cursing each other like mad as they drove by.

            Like the old saying…only in NY, kiddies.

        • 0 avatar

          “Is there a “significant increase in road rage”?
          A quick search shows that articles with data say no, but articles that are impression-based say yes.”

          Do your articles break the statistics down by region, or city? I can’t speak for much of the country, but I’ve definitely seen much more of it here in the Atlanta metro area, over time, particularly in the ‘burbs.

          • 0 avatar
            heavy handle

            I didn’t write the articles!

            Here’s the pattern I observed. If an article leads with “statistics tell us road rage is on the rise,” then it does not quote any statistics or provide any references. The few research studies I saw showed a decrease.

            I’m not about to do a full literature review (not for free, anyway). Maybe someone has done a study that breaks-down data by region.

  • avatar
    Corollaman

    I never realized that obtaining a motorcycle license and buying a bike allowed someone to break every damn traffic rule that us dumb 4 wheel vehicle drivers have to obey. Jeez!

  • avatar
    thegamper

    I really don’t think this is questionable call at all. Biker’s fault. Hands down. You cannot get upset at people making legal maneuvers at posted speeds. His reaction was the catalyst for the entire situation. The fact that he would hit a woman who has two children in tow speaks volumes about this guy. Jack is right, no man from previous generations would have ever pulled this stunt and I think most young men of later generations would pull this stunt either. This guy is just so important in his own mind that the rules of decency don’t apply to him.

    The woman, certainly pulled some inadvisable moves. Still, she shouldn’t have had her mirror hit and she shouldn’t have been hit when she did not touch this man.

    Motorcyclist needs to go to jail.

  • avatar
    its me Dave

    This was a good piece. Jack’s framing the conflict as two victims vying to claim the greater affront seems spot-on. Viewed this way, you can consider it a fight between two passive-aggressives who are trying to avoid going full aggro – with mixed success.

  • avatar
    Shiv91

    Both were in the wrong. Road rage is so stupid to me because if drivers weren’t inside a 3000+lb machine they’d likely just ignore it or maybe mumble a little “well excuse me!” and go about their day.

    And I’ll probably catch heat for this but I’m sorry, I CAN’T STAND bikes. They’re a nuisance. I know there’s responsible bikers out there but it seems like half of them have a death wish.

    • 0 avatar
      Jack Baruth

      If it helps, I ride 8-12,000 miles a year and I ALSO can’t stand bikers.

    • 0 avatar
      JimZ

      the two worst (and biggest) groups of @sshole bikers are;

      – lawyers and dentists in the throes of a mid-life crisis who deck themselves out in Harley-Davidson apparel and ride their Street Glide maybe one day a week but pretend they’re on “Sons of Anarchy,” and

      – 18-24 year old douchebag bros on sportbikes who think “stunting” on public roads and running from the police are things to be proud of.

      the rest of the people on motorcycles you don’t notice because they’re not s**theads.

      • 0 avatar
        HotPotato

        Don’t forget arseholes who ride dirt bikes on the street, with that nasty deafening exhaust that sounds and smells like a jet engine with diarrhea.

      • 0 avatar
        sgeffe

        I just try to give them as wide a berth as possible, and try to get past them as quickly as possible. All it would take is one piece of debris, one odd expansion joint, anything, and that rider is down in front me! ::Shudders!::

        • 0 avatar
          Shiv91

          Same, and I can’t stand the noise either. When I lived downtown that sh!t used to wake me up out of sound sleep all the time. Loud ass exhaust stopped being cool to me after like age 19.

  • avatar
    Pch101

    “What I’d like to suggest to you is that this incident could not have happened in any previous era of American culture. Start with this: both parties see themselves as victims.”

    Give a guy a hammer and all he sees are nails.

    Road rage is a byproduct of the fact that most people believe themselves to be above-average drivers, which makes every problem someone else’s fault.

    The only aspect of this that is modern is the fact that vehicles move at speeds that are high enough that two people who are lacking self-awareness are likely to encounter each other on a public highway.

    • 0 avatar
      FreedMike

      And now we have Youtube to immortalize every last instance of dumb people being dumb.

    • 0 avatar
      Shiv91

      Yep, see this all the time. One time, a few years ago, some oncoming soccer mom put her blinker on and began to turn right, so I turned right onto the road she was on (I never make a turn until the oncoming car has started its turn, blinker or no blinker), however she changed her mind at the last minute and decided to go straight and honked at ME! I just expect behavior like that and don’t let it get to me.

      There is now a 4-way stop at that intersection, maybe she did it again and wasn’t so fortunate that time lol.

      • 0 avatar
        JimZ

        I was tooling along on my bike on a 45 mph road, when this person pulled out from a parking lot (to my right) to turn left onto my road. She left little enough time where I had to brake pretty hard, and when I hit my horn, she honked back and gave me a dirty look.

        I may disagree about where this society is and once was, but if there’s one thing I’ll unflinchingly agree with, it’s that the “It’s not my fault!” mindset is becoming far too pervasive, and far too accepted. I’m sure in her mind, I was the jerk for honking at her because “I should have known what she was going to do.”

        I’ve encountered far too many people who, when they’re scolded for doing something they (or their kid) shouldn’t have, fall back on the “well you should have done more to stop me” defense.

        • 0 avatar
          hreardon

          A year ago during a nasty ice storm I slid into the back of a woman on my way to work. Regular ole’ fashioned fender-bender.

          When the police stopped to take statements, he stepped out of the car and almost fell on his arse due to the ice. He asked, “okay, what happened?” I replied, “I hit the brakes and kept on going.” He responded with, “you should have kept a greater distance with this ice.” I replied, “no question there, I was a dumbass.”

          He chuckled, asked me if I needed any further assistance, and left with, “you’re the first person in two years to actually admit fault. slow it down.” He walked back to his cruiser and took off.

        • 0 avatar
          JohnTaurus_3.0_AX4N

          Jim, I agree. Years ago, I had a lady run a stop sign and nearly hit me. I had my window down so I pointed at the stop sign and yelled “don’t you see that?!” She started with “that doesn’t matter, you should’ve…” and that’s all I heard because I put my window up and drove away.

          I should have, what? Stopped when I wasn’t supposed to so she was free to NOT stop when she was supposed to? Not been born in the first place so I wouldn’t have the audacity to be driving down the street when she was there? No, honey, stop signs don’t matter when you’re a self-entitled b¡Г©h, feel free to ignore any rules that impeed your path.

          • 0 avatar
            Shiv91

            Kind of off-topic but I used to play in a band with this one girl and for a while we rehearsed in my basement. The basement randomly flooded and caused minor water damage to her guitar amp. When I told her she was like “You should’ve known the basement was going to flood and moved everything!” She also wanted $1000 of insurance $ for the amp, to which I replied “F no”. That was the straw that broke the camel’s back and I quit the band.

  • avatar
    analoggrotto

    If go-pro cruiser bike dude didnt have a Girl on the bike with him, would this entire thing have even happened at all?

  • avatar
    Stumpaster

    Quick, someone call Eminem, this is a great plot for another song about sorry-ass white trash living in the burbs.

  • avatar
    redliner

    How dare other people operate motor vehicles in “his” lane?

    Jack is spot-on. We have been reduced to a culture of victimless injuries and petty responses governed and judged upon by a jury of internet-connected masses.

  • avatar
    don1967

    Had an identical experience on the V Star recently, when a matte-painted Avenger drifted into my space without checking.

    A younger version of myself might have accelerated and whacked the mirror too, but fortunately cooler heads prevailed. I backed off with a polite-but-urgent “meep meep” from my wimpy OEM horn, and the Avenger swerved back into its lane with an apologetic wave from the driver.

    Life doesn’t always have to be hard.

    • 0 avatar
      VolandoBajo

      Meep meep can get you killed, too…from lack of being noticed.

      My father, who was a certified Old Geezer of the highest order in his old age, used to tow an Airstream trailer behind a Mercury wagon, and every so often some idiot would pull out from a parking lot, or from a right turn on red, close enough to force him to have to take some awkward maneuvers with that rig.

      So he went out and bought the nicest air horn he could find (a set of them, actually) had an auxiliary compressor installed, and had it wired into his electrical system.

      When someone would try a stunt like that after he got the air horns, it was amazing how quickly other drivers who were about to cut him off would come to a complete stop and look around to try to find the semi they hadn’t seen.

      He only used it when it was richly deserved, but when it was, it was priceless to see.

  • avatar
    hreardon

    Social media reminds me of why I’m glad we don’t live in a true democracy….

  • avatar
    KixStart

    Title this one, “Close Encounters of the Jerk Kind.”

    The Tahoe’s initial maneuver was perfectly reasonable – except she didn’t realize how fast the biker was closing the gap (irresponsible operation, that).

    Then the biker started the confrontation which is when we found out that the Tahoe driver was almost as big a jerk as the biker.

    Had he accepted this close shave as the cost of the way he was riding, which it was, nothing further would have happened. In fact, had he merely ridden by without flipping the mirror, the Tahoe driver would have been startled and frightened by the sudden appearance of the cycle and wondering how she missed it.

  • avatar
    Testacles Megalos

    “No people will tamely surrender their Liberties, nor can any be easily subdued, when knowledge is diffusd and Virtue is preservd. On the Contrary, when People are universally ignorant, and debauchd in their Manners, they will sink under their own weight without the Aid of foreign Invaders.” — Samuel Adams –

    These occurences are just more proof we’re all going to hell.

  • avatar
    CincyDavid

    On the subject of inclusion, we have attended two graduations from private parochial high schools in the past two weeks. Both institutions have made a solid effort to include PoC in their student bodies, to the extent of waiving significant portions of the tuition so said students will attend. The ONLY families to hoot and holler when their graduates’ names were called were these self-same families. Further, the principal asked that families remain seated until the graduates had processed out of the hall…guess who got up and left once their kids processed out?!? For cryin’ out loud, they were surrounded by people behaving with proper decorum, and they just couldn’t be bothered to play along. If I had behaved like that when I was 5, I would have had my ass handed to me, I can’t imagine adults acting like that.

    Why a middle-aged man would think it’s appropriate to wear flip flops, baggy shorts and a t-shirt to an event like this is another mystery…

    • 0 avatar
      KixStart

      “The ONLY families to hoot and holler when their graduates’ names were called were these self-same families. Further, the principal asked that families remain seated until the graduates had processed out of the hall…guess who got up and left once their kids processed out?!?”

      I’ve seen PNoC do that, too.

      “Why a middle-aged man would think it’s appropriate to wear flip flops, baggy shorts and a t-shirt to an event like this is another mystery…”

      I’ve seen PNoCs wear such things to funerals, graduations, weddings…

      It’s not about Color, it’s about how you were raised.

      • 0 avatar
        CincyDavid

        Even if you were raised by wolves, a statement was read asking everyone to hold their applause until the end, and everyone else in the place succeeded in that endeavor. Just by watching the people around you, a normal, reasonably respectful person would have just blended in and emulated everyone else. I think it’s a willful disregard for the people around them and arrogance of some sort…like thumbing their noses at the rest of the crowd.

        The most recent graduation is a school with a very blue collar, west-side Cincinnati clientele, and even the roughest of the traditional blue collar families had the good sense to stay quiet…

  • avatar
    Hydromatic

    So what of the aftermath? I’d like to see how the police handled this situation.

  • avatar
    AlexMcD

    Biker “Rules don’t apply to me” douche meets Tahoe “I have no self control” douchette.

    Hilarity ensues.

  • avatar
    orenwolf

    Pretty well reasoned opinion, Jack.

    I’d personally never touch someone else’s car, short of, say, pushing off of it as a pedestrian if they’re inattentive and try to run me over or something (and man does that happen a lot! People looking at the oncoming traffic pulling out of a driveway and ignoring pedestrians, but I digress).

    Closing the mirror was childish, though I doubt illegal in most areas. However, I’m sure *lots* of people (especially of the BMW-owner variety) would freak the fuck out at that.

    The women then initiates an assault of the motorcycle driver. She could have left at any time, there’s no other way to see it than she chose to assault him. That surely is illegal. Whether or not the police would see it that way given the mitigating circumstances isn’t really the point.

    Motorcycle guy acts childish in response to a perceived slight (intentional or otherwise). Women assaults him. In my book, that’s the greater issue. There’s clearly no self-defence or any other sort of argument to be made.

    The male driver had every right to defend himself, even if, in my opinion, he should have just left it. I doubt he felt that he was in imminent danger either. But human nature makes that difficult. So he defends himself. Fine.

    To me, the core issue? Way too much entitlement on “your” roadway, and way too much focus on property in (at least) US culture. Life’s too short, man.

  • avatar
    Sigivald

    “vehicles most likely to contain unlicensed handguns”

    In *America*, Jack (ie, not New York), handguns don’t need “licenses”.

    (I agree about everything else, though.

    Except maybe that while I’m older than a 1980 birthday, I see no problem with hitting a woman *back*, in self defense, after being assaulted.)

    • 0 avatar
      JimZ

      Michigan is “not America?”

    • 0 avatar
      VolandoBajo

      It’s almost impossible to get a license to own a handgun in NJ, much less be able to just own one, no matter how law-abiding you are.

      If you don’t like them apples, then don’t vote for either the Hill or the Bern, as they see all handguns not owned by the elite and their bodyguards as being evil.

  • avatar
    tbp0701

    In my last job I worked with many millennials, both colleagues and clients. Among the more surprising things for me was that many of them had difficulty dealing with bad situations. They would get angry, upset, frustrated, yell, break down in tears, etc. Also, they would not let an issue go. Someone’s having a bad day and being a bit too animated in expressing displeasure would often be taken as a personal affront, and when possible there would be retaliation, even if it took months.

    In some ways it reminded me of Jr. High girls’ behavior, but in this world it wasn’t strictly limited to gender. So I wound up having to diffuse a lot of situations or let someone know his/her behavior was unacceptable. Simply treating people with respect, listening enough to understand an issue and doing what I said I would do usually worked well. Certainly there were times I had to yell back and let someone know I was not to be intimidated, but they were rare (although a C-level executive of one of the world’s largest and most horrendous financial institutions did attempt to get me fired after I snapped back and told him no).

    But in that time, a few things in particular struck me (figuratively):
    – Nearly everyone expected an apology for absolutely any perceived sleight.
    – Nearly everyone apologized profusely; “Sorry” was constantly heard and nearly always disingenuous.
    – Nearly all of them were either taking or at one point took antidepressants.

    I’m not sure of the causes and effects of all of this and how much Internet culture has played into it, but I am curious about the roll antidepressants may have had. This may be my own paranoia, but I’m wondering if having a large portion of two generations swallow a pill whenever they felt bad has prevented many from realizing that life often blows ungulates and we have to learn how to deal with it.

    As for the video, I think both people are being ridiculous and are lucky it didn’t go beyond what it did. I also agree that all that ridiculousness stemmed because two people couldn’t let what should have been minor nuisances in daily life go.

  • avatar
    Arthur Dailey

    In 2009, the former senior legal official in the province of Ontario, the Attorney General was charged with criminal negligence in the ‘road rage’ related death of a bicyclist.

    Sometimes there is not accounting for how humans react to a situation.

    https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2009/09/01/michael_bryant_charged_in_cyclists_death.html

  • avatar
    ToddAtlasF1

    We live in an Obama-voter-rich environment. They’re bound to have to interact with each other once in a while. Hilarity ensues, while dignity, sanity, and intellect take a holiday.

  • avatar
    05lgt

    Merging in front of someone is… merging. Cutting someone off is when evasive maneuvering (not simply slowing down) are required to avoid colision. The cost of the car is barely relevant to the property crime of vandalizing a mirror. Painting profanities on your neighbors window is bad, choosing crylon instead of watercolor makes it a little worse. Being the victim of various attempts of intimidating behavior while engaging in the same is mutual assault. Striking (open hand or closed) is battery. In every instance the biker is guilty of first and worst offense. They’re both a$$holes though.

    Edit, I missed “and attacks him”. OK, she committed battery first. I hope they both see license suspensions.

  • avatar
    kwong

    I see both sides in the wrong here. Both motorists broke many laws during their stint and endangered the lives of pedestrians and other motorists, not to mention speeding near a school. In the first 10 seconds, you can see that the speed limit is 50mph, and I’m guessing the motorcyclist was going well above 50mph while in the number 2 lane (mind you the number 1 lane looked clear). The Tahoe/Yukon driver used her turn signal to (needlessly) change lanes. There wasn’t slower traffic ahead and her original lane wasn’t a must turn right lane. It baffles me that the motorcyclist would close the SUV’s mirror and then yell for her to check her mirror…it’s counterproductive.

    • 0 avatar
      JohnTaurus_3.0_AX4N

      I agree with you, both were at fault. I blame her more so because her actions were worse. She followed him, she drove very aggressively attempting to stay with him. Yes, he drove poorly, too, but she could’ve back off early on and he would’ve slowed back down. If she hadn’t gave chase, he would not have had to drive that fast to try to lose her. Lets also be honest, her Tahoe would do a lot more damage to anything they might’ve hit. Also, she attacked him before he struck her.

      “A man shouldn’t hit a woman.” if she attacks him first, F that, he can defend himself. You think I won’t? If some female comes at me, I’m not going to stand there and do nothing while she beats the crap out of me. I certainly won’t make it physical first, but I will defend myself.

      I believe she threw herself on the ground to garner sympothy, to make everyone think “oh, this big bad man beat up this helpless, innocent lady”. He did not hit her hard enough to cause that, he did what he needed to do after she came at him like a wild boar. She has only herself to blame, she decided to charge at him, I guess she expected him to stand there and take it. F that. She was the initial aggressor, he did nothing wrong by defending himself.

      I also believe she intentionally cut in front of him in the onset. She saw him coming up quickly and decided to “teach him a lesson” by blocking his path and causing him to react.

      His rational in folding in her mirror was that she wasn’t using it and therefore didn’t need it.

      • 0 avatar
        sgeffe

        That’s the same argument I made above! If I have to follow some arbitrary number on a sign, you do too, so I’ll cut in front of you and slow you down to the speed limit!

      • 0 avatar
        Vulpine

        @JT3.0: Now you making it sound like the whole thing was staged. What good would theatrics like, “she threw herself on the ground to garner sympothy, to make everyone think “oh, this big bad man beat up this helpless, innocent lady” do if she didn’t know she was being recorded, hmmm? Just because someone has a GoPro on their helmet doesn’t mean they’re recording all the time, after all.

        And yes, I do agree she escalated the issue by pursuing when she should have simply reported it (not that anything would have come from the reporting of it.) But putting the greater part of the blame on her is something I would NOT do. For all she knew he might have hit the side of her truck with the bike itself with the way the sudden, unexpected slam of her mirror practically in her face. The startlement factor alone could have given her a heart attack and most certainly as a mother she could have seen it as a physical attack on herself and her kids. In fact, “closing her mirror” would be considered both assault and battery in court, so he’s got a minimum of two counts of a bailable offense on video. That doesn’t let her off, but the lion’s share of the blame is on him for initiating the whole thing.

  • avatar
    bricoler1946

    That and get a bike that’s fast or take the bus , lucky for the toerag on the bike the two pedestrians weren’t hit.

  • avatar
    guy922

    They were both wrong. He shouldnt have been going so fast nor should he have touched her mirror. However, she didn’t help anything by following him around, potentially causing more danger. Im not gonna lie though, she looks like she has a big mouth and probably has been clocked before.

    When incidents happen on the road and I think someone is following me, I just drive to the police station. They usually turn back when they see where you are headed. Rule #1, when a road rage incident is happening, you don’t get out of the vehicle. If she had stayed in the car she probably wouldn’t have gotten punched. Yeah they would’ve had heated words, but things usually escalate when folks get out of the car.

  • avatar
    Chan

    I think the root cause here is a narcissistic biker who thinks that every improper lane change in front of him is a personal insult that needs to be called out. Tahoe driver is a hilarious example of a typical @$$clown motorist with no regard for safety or manners.

    People just don’t see motorcyclists reliably, whether it’s for lack of looking or a true cager blind spot.

    I hereby award myself 1 brownie point for using the term “cager.”

  • avatar
    danio3834

    Both are cretins. I don’t care. I can’t really extrapolate this as support for any given cause.

  • avatar
    runs_on_h8raide

    When society finally collapses…and it’s going to be soon….we need some sort of hand signal or secret word to identify TTAC’ers. Maybe even make our own morale patches. It could be something that defines TTAC….imagine the possibilities.

  • avatar
    DaleR

    Bloke on the motorcycle should have just changed lanes. He had time to do that but he wanted to “make a point”.

Read all comments

Back to TopLeave a Reply

You must be logged in to post a comment.

Recent Comments

  • lostboy: Just an idea – and I’m not crapping on Chrysler for this BUT… You have a minivan with both...
  • SPPPP: The top-trim interior sure looks nice. From the outside, I am surprised by how large this vehicle looks. Based...
  • ajla: At this point, investing in ICE updates, let alone ones for a V8, would be a waste of money. FCA had been...
  • Lou_BC: One steals what they are familiar with. If it’s organized crime they tend to target only specific...
  • Sobro: Toolguy, some models allow you to program more fobs via the keyless entry radio or RFID. In order to...

New Car Research

Get a Free Dealer Quote

Who We Are

  • Adam Tonge
  • Bozi Tatarevic
  • Corey Lewis
  • Mark Baruth
  • Ronnie Schreiber