By on June 2, 2016

2017 IONIQ HEV

If you’re still holding on to that copy of Who Killed the Electric Car? you bought back in your university days, it might be time to toss it in the trash.

In just two years, there could be four 200-plus mile electric vehicles on the market, now that Hyundai plans to jump into the long-range EV game.

The South Korean automaker doesn’t want to be an also-ran in the emerging field, so it’s planning a 2018 introduction of an EV designed to battle the 215-mile Tesla Model 3. It’s an ambitious goal for a company whose green car chief once called EVs and hybrids “a headache.”

Reuters reports Hyundai wants a vehicle that goes at least 200 miles on a charge, putting it on par with the Model 3 (due out in late 2017), the Chevrolet Bolt (due out this fall), and the next-generation Nissan Leaf, which is expected to receive a similar range in 2018.

In April, Ford CEO Mark Fields said his company was developing a 200-mile EV, even after his electrification chief said the 100-mile range of the 2017 Focus Electric was good enough. There’s no word on when that model will appear.

Apparently, automakers decided 200 miles is enough range to eliminate most cases of “range anxiety” and be useful for most driving tasks. It’s also a nice, round number and is achievable with existing technology.

Hyundai hasn’t been resting on its electric laurels this whole time. Earlier this year, the company revealed its 2017 Ioniq, which comes in hybrid, plug-in and fully electric versions. The Ioniq Electric will have an estimate range of 110 miles when it goes on sale later this year.

Whether the automaker’s shadowy 200-mile EV is a new model or a battery-crammed version of the Ioniq remains to be seen.

[Source: Reuters] [Image: Hyundai Motor Company]

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72 Comments on “The 200-Mile Electric Car Field Could be Crowded by 2018...”


  • avatar
    VoGo

    4 years ago, 80 miles was the norm. Now it’s about 110. Within 2 years, 200 miles. Not quite Moore’s Law, but still impressive progress. You could project that 5-8 years from now, 400 miles might be the norm, at which point range anxieties will truly abate.

    • 0 avatar
      Steve65

      Range anxiety is not the factor preventing broad adoption of BEVs, so fiddling with it will never shift them from “niche” to “mainstream” vehicles.

      • 0 avatar
        redav

        There are several constraints, and solving one simply shifts the limiting factor to the next barrier.

        Sub-100 mi range certainly limits acceptance. The potential market for a 200 mi range EV compared to a 100 mi EV is probably 4x as large.

        Battery costs are falling feverishly fast. However, they still add much to the purchase price. Cost is the balancer for range. They’ve always had the ability to increase range–just add more batteries which means $$$, weight, & space. Unlike a larger gas tank which adds little to the price of a car, adding range adds a lot and negatively affects performance. EVs must find that Goldilocks point where just enough range is added without going too far. It’s a complete waste to have consumers pay for batteries they don’t need/use.

        Perception/stereotypes. Tesla solved it, but I think the Volt, Leaf, & the rest haven’t. They have to convince buyers that EVs aren’t just for greenies. Autoline criticizes marketers for not playing up the fun factors of low CoG & instant torque and the luxuries of quietness and ease of maintenance.

        And there is the perception of a limitation in infrastructure. Again, Tesla nailed that. While most people have access to overnight charging, there’s still a perception gap. The paradigm of going to a fueling station is so entrenched that people forget they will almost always charge at home. But as more apartments, jobs, & stores add chargers, the perception will change.

        Another perception is quality. There are a surprising number of people who think you have to buy a new battery pack every three years. Few people consider the difference in maintenance costs. As these cars start making a name for themselves in reliability, that will knock down another roadblock.

        It’s only after each constraint is lifted will popular acceptance occur. Many experts think it will be before 2025, and that sounds right. A flaw I see often is that for EVs to catch on, everything must be an EV. That of course is false. They will fill a niche but will not completely displace ICEs.

        • 0 avatar
          NetGenHoon

          The issue with EVs with over 24Kw of battery capacity is charge time. Charging on a 120V at home takes close 24 hrs. My Leaf gets ~4 mi/kW which puts my usable range at near 80 miles, but I can only refill 50% of that on an average day.

          A 6kW/h Level 2 charger at home would reduce this time to 4 hours, but that isn’t an option for renters. Where I live in Phoenix, we have decent public DC Quick Charge infrastructure. Well it seems that way, but the heat makes those chargers hilariously unreliable.

          As a EV owner, here’s the crux of my range anxiety: 80 miles is enough for any given day, but the hard part is charging it to have another 80 miles available for the next day. Only homeowners and people at certain apartment complexes can reliably have full range everyday with current battery sizes.

          Now multiply that by a 200 mile (likely 65-70 KWh) battery. We’re talking 3-4 DAYS to charge on household current. 10-12 hours on Level 2 6kW.

          My wife and I love our electric car, but this is a serious feasibilty issue. For now, a 10kW plug-in hybrid is the most feasible option. We can charge it overnight and get ~40miles of battery range (enough for commute) and if we go over that we don’t have to worry.

          • 0 avatar
            raffi14

            Sure, you should not buy an EV if you can’t get a high-current circuit installed in your home for the purpose of overnight charging. It’s not impossible for renters, just complicated.

          • 0 avatar
            orenwolf

            I’m a renter. I was able to negotiate a high-voltage port in the car park for my car by paying for 50% of the work. The rental property considers it a bonus should I ever depart – they can advertise having BEV charging capacity for that space.

            even without that, you can charge on a standard outlet (Level 1) and get something like 35 miles on an 8 hour charge. That may be enough for some (It would, in fact, be enough for my daily commute downtown and back, but I’d rather have more options).

          • 0 avatar
            Steve65

            I’m a renter too. I can’t even get the owner to grasp that “bare wood =bad” and paint the place. There’s no way in hell he’d ever install a charger, are there’s equally no way in hell I’m spending my own money on a capital improvement to somebody else’s house.

    • 0 avatar
      JimZ

      the jump to 200+ miles pretty much requires a platform built to be an EV from the start. Prior to Tesla showing up, nobody could put together a business case to do so. All they could justify making were 70-90 mile “compliance cars,” and those only at gunpoint.

    • 0 avatar

      4 Years ago was 2012.

      By November of 2012 Tesla already had the P85 on sale.

      I had previously already driven the Fisker Karma.

      The fisker Karma truly makes more sense simply because it’s a PHEV instead of a full EV.

      Until EV charge points become more ubiquitous, PHEV should be the focus until such time that EV can be sold in 200-mile, 300-mile or greater variants as the norm.

      PHEV will always have benefits over EV.

      The problem is that the Karma seems to have been a victim of several unfortunate circumstances – including the bottom line: it was too Goddamned small.

  • avatar

    Confirmed 200+ Mile EV’s from Hyundai, Ford, Tesla, Chevy.

    Notice who isn’t on the list?

    Starts and ends with the letter “N”

  • avatar
    RHD

    If Mitsubishi has one in the works, Nissan can just put their badge on it.
    What could possibly go wrong?

  • avatar
    duffman13

    200 miles seems to be the magic number to me. Living in the DC metro, I go 45 miles each way to work. This would give me the range i need and then some to run errands after work, where current electrics would get me home on a trickle. Heck, it gets me to Philly with miles to spare, or nearly all the way to NYC on a single charge. This is enough to be practical for almost anyone.

    • 0 avatar
      Steve65

      Far more people don’t have access to guaranteed overnight parking than do.

      200, 300, 400 mile range? Still a suburban luxury, not a mainstream option.

      • 0 avatar
        duffman13

        Fair statement. It’s understandable that to the average apartment-dweller, these are off the table, since I imagine management would have a problem with residents running 100+ft extension cords out of their windows. Of course there are exceptions to this, primarily semi-urban apartment buildings with covered parking and designated EV spaces. I’ve seen them in places like Rockville and Silver Spring.

        I’d add that as an owner of a home without a garage, it would also entail running an extension cord from my front porch or the installation of a 240V charger in the side of my house that the driveway is next to, so still not the most ideal situation for me. But the fact is for all of its pitfalls, 200 miles makes an EV a potential option for me and many people with an hour-ish commute, where it wasn’t before.

      • 0 avatar
        FormerFF

        Considering that more than half of the US population, and I dare say considerably more than half the motor vehicles reside in the suburbs, I don’t see how you can say that it is not a mainstream option. When I lived in the city, I rented a parking space in a garage, there’s no reason that my space couldn’t have been electrified.

    • 0 avatar
      RobertRyan

      Really , a nerve wracking commute if you relied on these in many parts of Australia

      • 0 avatar
        shaker

        “Nerve wracking commute” –

        Damn right, as I’ve seen in all the Mad Max movies…

      • 0 avatar
        Big Al from Oz

        RobertRyan,
        EVs are great on golf courses, inner city delivery runs and those little runabout utility vehicles in factories.

        When we run out of fossil fuels I do see some life for mainstream EVs. By then with the way urbanisation is occurring globally public transport will be all the rage.

        • 0 avatar
          orenwolf

          I don’t know about that. The reality of urbanization in almost every society seems to pull towards transportation independence first – look at the uptick in cars sold in developing countries.

          An interesting tidbit I heard the other day was that vegetarianism globally is mostly unchanged because any gains in hippie veganism here in the West is offset by developing countries where, as people become more affluent, choose to eat more meat. I think the same is true of personal transporation.

          This in part is why I think it makes a lot of sense that China is pushing EV initiatives – their ICE problem is bad enough already thanks to crazy smog issues. Anywhere economics improve, you get more car sales (and, apparently, more meat eaters!).

          • 0 avatar
            Big Al from Oz

            orenwolf,
            That is now, but look at the EU’s ownership of vehicles in comparison to the US and Australia.

            The time and resources to change from fossil fuel to EVs as mainstream will be decades. By then it will become to onerous to own a private vehicle for many.

            Many of these developing nations do have scope for additional vehicles as they become more affluent. But the reality is public transport will increase significantly to counter the congestion as the EU has in comparison to us who have better developed road infrastructure.

            I do believe cities will be eventually forced to make private transport less viable, using the same tactics as is used to reduce nicotine addiction. It will cost more and more to own a vehicle, in any country.

            This is already occurring in the EU.

            Australia as large as it is with such a low population density is undergoing massive inner city high rise development in Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane. The skylines of these cities are becoming unrecognisable in just one decade and a huge part of the change is residential towers.

            Even the Gold Coast about 100km south of Brisbane has residential towers as tall as the Empire State building and this is in a city with only 5 or 6 hundred thousand.

            Some of the development will be densest globally. Owing a vehicle will become awkward.

            http://architectureau.com/articles/green-square-density-to-near-hong-kongs/

            Here are some issues confronting Sydney. I’d say Sydney will have some of the greatest under ground freeways in the world the way it is going It seems most any freeway within 15km of the city is mosty underground, even some interchanges!

            http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-05-30/the-policy-and-politics-surrounding-sydneys-westconnex/7459952

            What I’m saying is our city densities will increase to reduce our footprint. The world’s population has no other choice…..eventually or only a few decades out.

          • 0 avatar
            accord1999

            Even in the EU, passenger travel is overwhelmingly done by passenger cars.

            http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Passenger_transport_statistics

            If some cities try to make private cars too onerous, you’ll probably just see people migrate to cities that don’t.

          • 0 avatar
            xtoyota

            China…. they will just need to build more dirty coal burning power stations to power all the car batteries ….See the world needs more generators to charge all these cars :=)
            Solve one problem and create another :=(

  • avatar
    BlueEr03

    Even if it isn’t announced, you can bet that the Kia Niro will have the same 200-mile battery as the Ioniq when 2018 rolls around. Then they can offer a poor-mans Model 3 and X.

  • avatar
    bunkie

    Here’s hoping that Hyundai isn’t using (again) inflated mileage numbers.

    A couple of years back, I saw a real estate listing for an apartment in my building in Manhattan. It listed the square footage as being 450. Curious, I got out my tape measure and counted every square foot in my apartment, including closet and hallways. My conclusion is that the “Manhattan Real Estate Square Foot” is actually 9″ by 9″. Hence, we may have the “Hyundai Mile” somewhere at about 4000’…

    • 0 avatar
      VoGo

      Real Estate SF measurements are notoriously flexible. Even though there is an industry standard, landlords have conventions that vary by city, and include all sorts of space types that aren’t directly usable by the lessee.

      • 0 avatar
        shaker

        Maybe they measure to the middle of the walls – that would add a lot to the sq. ft. In reality, the area allotted to the apt., walls and all, inside the area of the actual building.

  • avatar
    Felix Hoenikker

    IMHO RE area measurements, both inside and outside, are just another version of liar’s poker.

  • avatar
    orenwolf

    I wonder if this many 200mile+ EVs, and perhaps a larger uptake as a result, will increase the number of workplace/mall/plaza chargers out there?

    I live in a dense urban complex with underground parking, but pre-arranged to split the install cost (about $250 for me) for a charge outlet in my spot – the complex realizes that even if I leave it’ll be something they can market.

    Those with street parking don’t have those options, but I wonder if instead we can see people charging when out on errands or at work instead of at home?

    • 0 avatar
      Big Al from Oz

      orenwolf,
      The problem with the types of outlets you describe is a reduction in competition. How can the infrastructure be made to maintain competition without any monopolisation of pricing?

      How much will this cost? Imagine the number of charging stations needed if most all vehicles were EVs?

      Who will pay?

      • 0 avatar
        VoGo

        The market is already rushing to fill the anticipated need for more charging stations. Asking who will pay for the additional infrastructure is like asking who would pay to coat American cities with Starbucks every other block.

      • 0 avatar
        orenwolf

        Well, that’s a whole other ball of wax, right?

        Right now, Tesla (non-3) owners are paying for 1) personal charging at their homes and 2) capitalizing Tesla’s charging network.

        As EVs become mainstream, I expect there to be a market for paid charging in places like gas stations, malls, or other places cars tend to reside. People will use them if they need them, but for most, they can just charge at home.

        Eventially if EVs become the majority, clearly the tax system for roadways, etc will need to change. I can’t speak to the liklihood of the setup in the US (I’m a canuck) but I’d bet here it’d be mileage based. The government wants my odometer reading for plate renewals now anyway. Road tolls might also pick up the slack.

        The answer though, like today, is that “drivers will pay”, either as consumers subsidizing convenience charge locations as a loss leader, pay-as-you-go, or some form of non-gas-tax tax, as well as personal capital for home charging where appropriate.

        • 0 avatar
          VoGo

          Elio has this idea for selling those trikes that you use a special credit card that charges you for gas what you would pay to gas up a normal car. As long as you drive enough, your gas savings will pay for the vehicle itself.

          I could see Musk announcing a similar idea for the Model 3, in which you get the car for free, but pay big bucks to charge it, either at home (using SolarCity panels and Tesla batteries) or from his supercharger infrastructure.

          I believe Gillette had this idea once.

  • avatar
    Kyree S. Williams

    A 200+ mile EV would absolutely meet my daily commuting needs. I’d be perfectly happy to rent a car or keep an older one on hand for longer trips. It would especially be great if it depreciated like the Volt and Leaf have, so that I could pick one up for $13K or so after a few years.

    • 0 avatar
      VoGo

      New pic? Nice.

    • 0 avatar
      Big Al from Oz

      Kyree,
      Would you buy one without the taxpayer handouts?

      How big a slice of the market do you really think EVs would have without the taxpayer handouts?

      • 0 avatar
        VoGo

        Big Al,
        Would ANY American buy an ICE car without the reassurance that the US military stood by to guarantee oil supplies? That reassurance costs a whole lot more than the electric car tax refunds, which are being phased out anyhow.

      • 0 avatar
        orenwolf

        Well, that one’s easy – lets see how many tesla’s sell once their credit expires. I’m going to guess a hell of a lot.

    • 0 avatar

      200 miles is an improvement, but it still relies on easily available charging, and while it can probably take care of most commuting, it’s certainly not enough for a lot of road tripping between the range and the fact that a lot of road tripping destinations don’t provide easy access to all night charging (NYC for example).

      All this may change, and that would be good, because much more of the power for cars could be renewable, and because if EVs start being more than a niche, it will take pressure off of gasoline prices.

  • avatar
    65corvair

    When I can charge it anywhere in five minutes, I’ll start paying attention. I don’t expect 400 miles in a few years either.

    • 0 avatar
      Big Al from Oz

      65corvair,
      I agree with you on this. The problem is not just the short range, but the length of time it takes to charge.

      To charge a 400 mile range EV you would need massive cables that could not be easily managed by a large person, let alone a small person.

      How Kw/h (amperes) would be needed to charge a 400 mile EV?

      Until someone can wave a magic wand and vehicles weigh one hundred pounds so they can be driven by an electric motor the size of a cordless drill motor EVs will present themselves as hardly viable for everyday use by the everyday person.

      I’ve read people who even argue diesels are a pain in the a$$ because the density of diesel outlets is much lower than gasoline.

      Even if the density of EV charging stations increase how much will it cost to recharge with little competition as there is in the “fossil fuel” gas stations?

      I will take decades to fix the main issues confronting EV ownership by those who haven’t taken EV ownership up like a hobby to save the planet.

      If EVs as they would be with a 200 mile range is “attractive” then why hasn’t the ownership of small motorbikes become mainstream? They would be the ideal commuter vehicle, small, easy to park, use little fuel, etc.

      • 0 avatar
        orenwolf

        You’re right – the current setup is biased for home charging. You can easily charge 100+ miles overnight on a standard “dryer plug” based charger at home, which eliminates almost everyone’s need for charging elsehwere *for day to day needs*..

        The problem becomes day trips/road trips/weekend warriors, who need some sort of charging infrastrcuture. Tesla’s superchargers will charge you to nearly full in 20-30 mins. Yes, more than a gas station stop, but given that you’re road tripping and probably need to use the washroom or eat, not a terrible price to pay.

        Now, double the range and you’re talking an hour at a supercharger or a full day at home – but, unless you’re travelling hundreds of miles daily, that still means more road trips without stopping are possible, and even though your car now has 400 miles of range, you can still stop and get 150 miles or so every 30 mins of supercharge time on a road trip. Again, not a huge loss, just different than the gasoline world.

        • 0 avatar
          mcs

          800 volt charging is coming. That should speed things up a bit. Just today I was on a long trip. Rather than sticking around for a full charge, I just picked up enough power to get me home with about 30 miles in reserve.

      • 0 avatar
        VoGo

        With a range of 200 miles, electric cars start to work for most 2 or 3 car families in suburbia. You can always keep an ICE car for long trips, and commute in the Tesla 3.

        Most folks don’t take long trips that often, anyhow. For our family, it’s about once every 6 months, so the idea of spending 30 minutes roadside every 3-4 hours really isn’t all that daunting. The kids will need a break and a bite to eat regardless.

        An affordable 200 mile electric car won’t be ideal for everyone, but suddenly for large swaths of the US population, it becomes a workable solution.

        • 0 avatar
          duffman13

          VoGo,

          This is my feeling as well. An electric isn’t a good solution as an only car, but I don’t think it was ever supposed to be. They’re great for commuting and putting around town for errands. I still feel most families are going to have some form of truckster for hauling everybody/everything, road tripping, etc. and that will no doubt be gas powered.

      • 0 avatar
        SunnyvaleCA

        >>> The problem is not just the short range, but the length of time it takes to charge. <<<

        It only takes 30 seconds to charge … 15 seconds to plug it in at night and 15 seconds to unplug in the morning!

        As far as slow charging at home, it again depends on the usage model and the person's specific needs. I figure that if I had a 200 mile vehicle I'd just charge at home from a 110 volt charger. If I happened to take a 200 mile trip one day, I could charge overnight to just 1/4 full but still have no problem with a round-trip to work the next day due to my short commute. Then another all-night charge would get me to 1/2 full, and so on. Actually, I can high-speed charge at work, I'd probably almost never plug in at home! Further, I don't see myself getting rid of my current car if I got an electric.

        Perhaps a bigger impediment for most people is not being able to charge at home at all. (apartment living)

        • 0 avatar
          NetGenHoon

          I was reliant on public infrastructure for the first year I had my Leaf. It’s a mess.

          We have a charger at work, but it’s owned by the building and no longer under blink contract because the owner blah, blah, blah. The quick charger at the dealer has been down for the last 7 months…

          Blink has been awful to deal with. Instead of giving you a monthly statement with a due date that you then pay, they charge your credit card for an amount before notifying you. If you exceed a certain amount in a month, you are charged immediately. This is terrible.

          Electric cars are fine. It’s the charging infrastructure that’s holding the acceptance back.

  • avatar
    Big Al from Oz

    I do believe that much longer range EVs are a necessity if EVs are to ever become a mainstream vehicle. This will take quite some time.

    People are overlooking the scarcity of charge points. Most EVs will be sold to those who just drive to and from work. Charge times will need to be a few minutes as well.

    As the EV increases range the length of time of a recharge will increase. I do know I will receive comments regarding those quick charges, which is not giving you the 200 miles. How far can you go on one of those quick charges and long does it take?

    Going back to my initial sentence range and time to charge is only a part of it. Who is going to pay for the recharging infrastructure? How much will it cost to invest in this infrastructure and at what density will the needed recharging infrastructure be?

    At the moment EVs are like owning a RC toy. They are hamstrung by severe limitations on endurance and availability of recharging. Will the “feeel good types” expect the government to use taxpayer money to fund charging stations as well as subsidise their purchase with low wage earners’ taxes?

    This will take a long time to resolve and until then those who want to have an EV are like those who want RC toys.

    EVs make a person feel good that he thinks he’s doing something for the environment when there are much cheaper ways to fix up the environment and alleviate climate change.

    The world is not ready for EVs, they suck and are sucking money away from those who can least afford it and drive around in sh!tters.

    • 0 avatar
      VoGo

      You have the right to your opinion. I hope you retain the option to change it as the technology continues to rapidly improve.

    • 0 avatar
      SCE to AUX

      Please define ‘mainstream vehicle’. Over 1.2 million EVs have been sold worldwide since January 2012 – most of them with sub 100-mile range.

      Charge point scarcity: It’s an issue, unless you have a Tesla. Also, Tesla pays for their own charging infrastructure, which is why they’re so prolific. The arguments over charging protocol need to end, with everyone adopting the Tesla protocol.

      Quick charges give you about 170 miles in a Tesla: https://www.quora.com/How-long-does-it-take-to-charge-a-Tesla

      Subsidies: Low wage earners don’t pay much in taxes, so they’re really not subsidizing much of anything the government pays for: http://money.cnn.com/2013/03/12/news/economy/rich-taxes/

      You’re behind the curve on why people buy EVs. I had one because I liked it, with no environmental interests.

      • 0 avatar
        mcs

        Big Al mentions endurance, but with 30,000+ miles on my Leaf, LeafSpy Pro is still showing 100% health and I’ve got full bars and 100% range. I’m even starting to wonder if this thing doesn’t have something beyond lizard?

        As far as available charging points around Boston, it’s to the point where I’m getting picky. My favorite is a local supermarket chain that has a warm fresh baked muffin and a large coffee for $2.00. Free level 2 charging and WiFi in their cafe while you eat. I can even be picky with CHAdeMO charging as well. Multiple choices so you can pick by cost and amenities. My furthest typical commute is a location with level 2 charging with three level 3 close by.

        Still, it would be helpful if they had more intercity locations with CHAdeMO charging.

        Yesterday, I quick charged for a little extra padding and was only there 10 minutes. Why stand around for 30 minutes when all you need is 10 minutes worth?

        • 0 avatar
          Big Al from Oz

          mcs,
          30 000 on one charge is a little hard to swallow.

          I would believe it if you stated the vehicle is quite durable and reliable.

          • 0 avatar
            mcs

            I was a bit tired when I when I wrote that! Hey, maybe with a nano-scale nuclear plant on board?

            I meant that there’s been no degradation yet. Usually, at 30,000 miles a Leaf is missing a bar on the charge indicator and reading the battery health status data via the CAN bus would give less than 100% health. I’m still waiting for the hammer to drop and I cringe before I check the health number. But, so far so good. Whatever Nissan has done with this particular battery to improve longevity seems to be working so far. It’s a big improvement over previous generations of Leaf batteries.

          • 0 avatar
            redmondjp

            So mcs, what part of the country do you live in? As the Leaf uses a non-cooled battery pack, the average ambient temperature has a significant effect on battery life.

    • 0 avatar
      Chocolatedeath

      Just accept it Big Al. Electric self driving cars are whats best for you.

    • 0 avatar
      shaker

      “At the moment EVs are like owning a RC toy. They are hamstrung by severe limitations on endurance and availability of recharging. Will the “feeel good types” expect the government to use taxpayer money to fund charging stations as well as subsidise their purchase with low wage earners’ taxes?”

      Don’t be afraid, EV’s won’t hurt you.

      We’ll all be long dead when the God-Given Freedom to drive transcontinental distances in our personal vehicles is eschewed by societies more mature.

      • 0 avatar
        duffman13

        What happens when you have to move cross country? Just sell it, fly, and buy something new on the opposite coast?

        • 0 avatar
          orenwolf

          I don’t make my purchasing decisions based on the idea of a cross-country trip I might take once every couple of years, if that. If I needed to move cross-country, I think I’d probably tow ANY car behind my moving van, personally.

          This is similar to the people who say they NEED a pickup truck because once a year they do an IKEA run. I’d much rather rent a van from zipcar for $20 on those days, they’re parked less than 500ft from my house, and it’s not worth lugging around the pickup around town the other 99% of the time.

        • 0 avatar
          shaker

          ” Just sell it, fly, and buy something new on the opposite coast?”

          It depends on if there’s electricity available where I’m moving – if there is, I’d just have the car transported.

  • avatar
    Tstag

    This field will be much more crowded in 2 years time. All the premium cars makers, e.g. JLR plus the big German 3 are working on new models to be launched over the next 2 years.

    The market is growing but until recharge times fall then this will remain a niche market. If I want to drive across Europe or America I don’t want to have to stop for 30 mins to recharge my car whilst also looking for a plug socket. If the recharge times fall then my guess is that’s the end of petrol and diesel.

    • 0 avatar
      orenwolf

      “The market is growing but until recharge times fall then this will remain a niche market.”

      People keep saying this, but I think most of the first purchasers will be home charging, which will take care of the vast majority of day-to-day use without *ever* thinking about charging – they plug-in when they get home, unplug when they leave, making “recharge times” irrelevant.

      For tesla anyway, the supercharger network has been repeatedly shown to be dense enough to handle the occasional road-trip and still have multiple options to stop and charge. Yes, it’ll take you ~25 minutes to get 170 miles or so of charge, but who doesn’t stop to use the restroom every few hours anyway.

      I agree, if you can’t home-charge, the infrastructure isn’t there today to reliably own an electric vehicle. But that network is growing organically every day, and several orgs are talking about “pay-to-charge” stalls in malls/gas stations/etc – the infrastructure is going to be there eventually, just from inertia, especially with the increase an model availability about to happen.

      I personally believe it’s more a story of mainstream adoption happening *despite* these limitations. for a lot of folks, it feels like being a part of “the future”, or enjoying a new torque profile unlike any (attainable) ICE, or just like the idea of weaning themselves off of oil.

  • avatar
    05lgt

    a company whose green car chief once called EVs and hybrids “a headache.”

    “We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy”

    Remember aspiration? It was a good thing.

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