By on May 4, 2016

2015 Chrysler 200

Significant incentives did not alter the Chrysler 200’s dreadful U.S. trendline in April 2016.

As the decrease in demand for the 200 became more obvious, Fiat Chrysler Automobiles temporarily shut down the midsize Chrysler’s Sterling Heights factory in order to clear out excess inventory. But 200 demand continued to decrease, and FCA was forced into laying off workers at the Sterling Heights plant while ramping up incentives on the 200. So dreadful is the 200’s marketplace performance that FCA has no desire to develop their next midsize car.

Heading into April, inventory levels remained high. Enticing deals were thick on the ground. But apparently, those deals weren’t so enticing after all, even as TTAC published a positive rental review of the four-cylinder Chrysler 200 at the tail end of April, just as consumers headed into showrooms to capture the best deals of the month.

Year-over-year, Chrysler 200 volume tumbled 63 percent in the first-quarter of 2016. As of April 1, Automotive News estimated that there were 53,000 200s in stock at U.S. Chrysler outlets. Surely, advertised discounts of $4,500 would be more than sufficient to clear out a chunk of that inventory as spring sprung, particularly since many dealers were offering far more impressive offers.

Sub-$18K for a 2016 200 with the 3.6L V6? You better believe it.

Sub-$22K for a V6 with all-wheel-drive? Yes you can.

In April, consumers didn’t seem to care how low 200 prices were. With plentiful inventory and attractive offers, Chrysler 200 sales plunged 60 percent to 7,591 units in April 2016, a loss of 11,259 sales compared to April 2015.

After producing nearly seven in ten Chrysler brand sales in April 2015, when Chrysler sold 27,704 new vehicles, the 200 contributed only one-third of the Chrysler brand’s 22,843 sales in April 2016.2016 Chrysler 200SFCA dealers entered April with nearly as many 200s as Jeep Cherokees. Yet even in a down month for the Cherokee, there were more than twice as many Cherokees sold as 200s.

Observers will point to the overall midsize market’s malaise as a cause of the 200’s rapid slide. Indeed, as the American auto industry expanded by more than three percent in April, the midsize car segment lost sales. But the midsize segment’s decline was due largely to the 200’s sharp decrease. 200 excluded, midsize car sales actually increased two percent in April 2016. Camry sales were flat. The Honda Accord, Nissan Altima, and Chevrolet Malibu jointly jumped 22 percent.

From 10 percent market share in April 2015, the Chrysler 200’s share of the midsize market slid to four percent in April 2016.

If there was a bright spot in the 200’s April performance, it was the fact that 200 sales were higher last month than they were in March, when the overall market was larger. 200 sales rose to a four-month high of 7,591 units in April. But for a nameplate which averaged more than 12,000 monthly sales over the last two calendar years — and more than 19,000 monthly sales between March and June of last year — these figures are frighteningly poor, all the more so because 200s aren’t leaving dealers even at bargain basement price points.

How much lower would prices need to fall to stir up demand?2015 Chrysler 200 S AWD front angle“Around town, the ZF (automatic transmission) is rarely in the right gear or even the gear that is next to the right gear,” Jack Baruth wrote in his April appreciation review.

“The upgraded Alpine audio system can’t cope with moderate increases in volume and caused many an interior part to quiver long before maximum output was called upon,” this TTAC writer wrote in late 2014.

“The 200 features a very contemporary roofline that slopes to create a pseudo-coupe profile, cutting rear seat headroom in the process. Combine that with a high rear seat cushion and you have a recipe for compromised headroom in the back,” wrote TTAC’s former managing editor.

With such glaring faults it’s no wonder Consumer Reports, in naming the Chrysler 200 one of the worst cars of 2015, said, “There are many better choices.”

Increasingly attractive incentives may never be enough to overcome that verdict.

[Image Source: FCA & © Timothy Cain/TTAC]

Timothy Cain is the founder of GoodCarBadCar.net, which obsesses over the free and frequent publication of U.S. and Canadian auto sales figures. Follow on Twitter @goodcarbadcar and on Facebook.

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167 Comments on “Despite FCA’s Clear-Out Effort, The Chrysler 200 Still Isn’t Selling...”


  • avatar
    NoID

    If I had the money I’d buy one in a heartbeat. 22k to get me on Sergio’s good side and to finally put something powering four wheels into my garage? You better believe I’d go for it. Alas, I’m still making payments on my used Mazda and I don’t see anyone buying that from me for what I owe.

    Plus I actually like my Mazda…although I drove a 200 last time I went out west and it ticks enough boxes that I’d be happy. You just wouldn’t see me at many autocrosses.

  • avatar
    DeadWeight

    Some chick in a loaded, black 200 was ON MY A$$ on M59 westbound yesterday, and I wasn’t exactly going slow.

    I thought about brake-checking her, but that’s actually a really dumb thing to do, especially at highway speeds and when a woman driver is piloting the vehicle behind you (cries of “You’re A Misogynist!” ring out from the gutters of social justicism – bonus; if it’s an Asian woman, you REALLY don’t want to put their driving-reflexes-and-ability-to-control-their-vehicle-skills-to-the-test).

    I ultimately decided to just get over one lane and let her fly by (at probably 85 mph – her ros) even though she could have overtaken me by the middle lane if she was halfway cognizant as there was light traffic.

    She didn’t even look over or acknowledge my air kiss as she passed as she was probably concentrating on the Drake or Beyonce lyrics emanating from her tweeters and middies.

    • 0 avatar
      DeadWeight

      Just to be clear (sing that in melodic harmony) – I NEVER brake-check anyone (seriously).

      It’s reckless, fruitless and dangerous.

      But if I did engage in such endeavors, brake-checking a woman, Asian woman, or anyone over the age of 60 is really asking for a wreck.

    • 0 avatar
      CoreyDL

      Since the left lane is the passing lane and you had a motorist behind you at greater speed than you wished to travel, you were at fault and should have moved to the center lane immediately.

      Yeah?

      • 0 avatar
        ScarecrowRepair

        This attitude really annoys me. If the freeway is empty enough for a pass-on-the-right to be safe and feasible, what is the tailgater doing in the passing lane? Shouldn’t they already be in the empty lane? if they were, they wouldn’t have a problem passing me.

        I figger as long as I am not blocking the road, it doesn’t matter what lane I am in. One of us is going to have to change lanes, and I have given up trying to figure out if that jerk behind me just wants someone to follow and will slow down if I get out of the way, or if they just want to be obnoxious and will get a half a length ahead before they slow down and keep me in their blind spot.

        If I’m blocking the road and can move over, I do. If I can’t, I don’t. If tailgaters don’t like it, tough noogies, they would just end up tailgating the car ahead of me anyway, so screw ’em.

        • 0 avatar
          CoreyDL

          It’s not really an attitude when it’s a fact.

          Red light means stop.
          Left lane is for passing.

        • 0 avatar
          Loser

          SR, I take it you have never seen a “Slower traffic keep right” sign during your travels.

        • 0 avatar
          nickoo

          No Scarecrow, it matters. The left lane is for passing. You are violating the rules of the road and you are a bad driver. In many states, you will rightfully be ticketed for it.

          Forcing people into the slower lanes to pass creates a hazard.

        • 0 avatar
          bball40dtw

          Impeding faster traffic by not moving over to the right is a traffic violation in the state of Michigan. Slow traffic needs to move over.

          • 0 avatar
            VoGo

            Agreed. Although in 3 decades of driving, I’ve never seen a cop pull someone over for violating that rule.

          • 0 avatar
            Pch101

            Most US states don’t require traffic in the left lane to move right for traffic that is exceeding the limit.

          • 0 avatar

            I get moving over and I do move over. But when the person in the left lane is exceeding the speedlimit by a large measure I see nor problem with keeping you already above legal cruise going in the left lane.

    • 0 avatar
      DeadWeight

      You’re both technically correct – however – it was the fact that she was approximately 3 feet from my a$$ at 78mph within a moments notice, not backing off an inch, to even let most people contemplate moving over, let alone signalling and doing it in proper fashion, that persuaded me to passively resist her “bleeding from everywhere” emotional driving.

      • 0 avatar
        VoGo

        You refuse to move over, but she is the one driving emotionally and on her period. OK.
        I see that your personality off line is consistent with what you share online.

        • 0 avatar
          DeadWeight

          it was the exception, and not the norm, for me.

          I don’t “road rage,” and have as clean a driving record (and record, period) as you’ll find anywhere.

          Maybe the thought that this person may have paid way too close to MSRP for a soon-to-be orphan fiat 200 (loaded) subconsciously triggered my passive-aggressiveness.

          • 0 avatar
            Zackman

            What I fail to understand is when drivers stay on your bumper in the RIGHT lane! Why? If I were going well under the speed limit – I understand that, it’s a hazard – but when you are at the limit or a tad under, there’s no excuse.

            Another question I have – unrelated to this subject is: Why do people feel they have the right to ignore speed limits on the highway, especially in trucks or SUVs? I don’t care if the interstate system was designed to cruise at 80 or so – it’s not the rule around town, so what? Those knuckleheads are merely selfish and endanger everyone else.

          • 0 avatar
            Russycle

            Zackman: “If I were going well under the speed limit – I understand that, it’s a hazard – ”

            Uh, no. It’s not your job to be You’re Driving Too Slow So I’m Going to Endanger Both of Us By Tailgating You police. Pass them and get on with your life. If you really feel they’re a danger, call the cops.

          • 0 avatar
            Zackman

            Russycle, I think you misunderstood me. I’m not the one tailgating anyone – I don’t do that! I stay in the right lane always.

          • 0 avatar
            Russycle

            Zack, my apologies. I’ve been tailgated in the right lane while doing the speed limit, annoys the hell out of me. There’s a passing lane right next to you, idiot! Use it!

          • 0 avatar
            Drzhivago138

            “Why do people feel they have the right to ignore speed limits on the highway, especially in trucks or SUVs?”

            I’m not sure if there are any numbers to back up the “especially in trucks and SUVs” part. It may only seem that way because when they pass you going 80+, they tend to be louder and are always larger (in width if not also height).

      • 0 avatar
        thornmark

        >>You’re both technically correct – however<<

        It depends. It is legal to pass on the right (middle lane) on a multi-lane highway.

        I was once given a ticket in CT by a state trooper for passing on the right (middle lane) when traffic in the left lane slowed due to his presence. I was not speeding.

        When I went to court the asst DA dropped the charges when he found out that I knew the law. He was going to prosecute me even though he knew I was not guilty because he assumed that I did not know the law.

        Bizarre.

    • 0 avatar
      redapple

      I must say

      DeadWeight – Dead On !

    • 0 avatar
      redliner

      Personal pet peeve…

      It doesn’t matter if the (insert your socially disparaged group of choice here) behind you is driving a rusty s-10 approaching at warp speed. If the road is clear, GET OUT OF THE LEFT LANE! It’s really not that hard.

      • 0 avatar
        JohnTaurus_3.0_AX4N

        @redliner

        100% correct. I dont get the “well Im doing the speed limit, so I can stay in the left lane and then cross three lanes at once to make the exit that’s been posted clearly as coming up for the past 10 miles” mentality. Its a self-entitled idiot who thinks they must be in the left lane, no matter the traffic situation. “I dont HAVE to move.” Um, yes you do. All those “keep right except to pass” (or similar) signs mean YOU as well as everyone else.

        It doesnt surprise me one bit that DeadBrain is sitting there in the left lane, sunglasses on, passing noone, drifting his speed up and down for no reason, going back and forth between the bumps that signal the lane marker and the rumble “wake up!” strips (or “driving by brail” as I call it), nursing a hangover and reassuring himself that the hooker from last night WAS really female when suddenly this evil Chrysler is a) (his preception) transported down from the Enterprise three feet from his rear bumper or b) (reality) drives up behind him expecting him to get over and he’s too flustered/preocupied/medicated to do anything about it, so she moves closer to signal “hey, Im faster, let me go” (Im not condoning tail gating, but its likely this was the case). So, he comes here, amends the story to (try, in vain) to make himself out to be some kind of hero, and manages to hurl some racial and sexual insults along the way for good measure.

        It figures perfectly with his persona here: ” I AM RIGHT, even when Im BASS-ACKWARDS WRONG, IM STILL RIGHT! ALL MUST BOW TO THE GREAT ANGRY ONE!”

        I think itd be more productive if he just threw up on his keyboard and then hit submit comment. Then again, that’s pretty much what he does.

        • 0 avatar
          DeadWeight

          JohnOvoidTaurusWithItsLeakyHeadGasketVulcanV6 – You’re just grumpy b/c you drive an ovoid Taurus.

          I was already doing close to 80, and the Drake- bee bopping 200 chick doing 85 to 90 was 3 feet from my rear bumper, coming out of nowhere.

          She was driving in a reckless manner, failing to leave a safe stop gap between my vehicle and hers in the event I had to brake suddenly, which violates safe driving 101.

          If I were in her position, I would have flashed-to-pass, or performed another tactic to safely overtake me or persuade me to migrate over.

          UNDER NO CONDITION IS IT ANYTHING SHORT OF RECKLESS DRIVING TO LITERALLY RIDE SOMEONE’S BUMPER AT NEAR 80 MPH, JOHNOVOIDTAURUSWITHLEAKINGVULCANV6HEADGASKET.

          • 0 avatar
            Drzhivago138

            This seems like quite the reasonable, logical reply that’s totally not being driven by emotion at all. Why do you believe name-calling to be necessary? It doesn’t endear you to anyone.

    • 0 avatar
      yamahog

      Good choice man, I wouldn’t have handled it any differently. You were going at a good clip and if someone is riding your ass at high speed, they might take an aggressive pass on the right and if you change lanes at the same time, it could end poorly.

    • 0 avatar
      ajla

      This is why you need to get that C63.

      If someone is on your as$, you uncork the M156 and just color you gone, baby.

    • 0 avatar
      April S

      DeadWeight, I’m sensing a deep dislike of women.

      Why the loathing?

    • 0 avatar
      Felix Hoenikker

      I thought it was just me who profiled Asian women as terrible drivers, but that has been my experience. Case in point, two months ago I was home about 10 AM when I heard a big thud outside. I looked out of my front window make to see if anyone had hit my Crown Vic which I park on the street. I live on a very low traffic street by the way with a 25 mph speed limit.
      Looking up the hill, I saw a CUV had crashed into a big Sycamore tree in front of the neighbor’s house. An Asian woman was standing next to the car looking at the chunk of bark that was removed from the tree by the impact. Her airbag had deployed, and the front end of her car had a big dent matching the diameter of the tree. She was talking on her cell phone when I approached her to offer assistance and call the police. She said she had done something “really dumb” and was already taking care of contacting help. Her husband came a short time later, but no police showed up and no tow truck came for more than two hours. I suspect they arranged a tow to their favorite body shop to get the car fixed for cash. No pesky insurance claims needed.
      The weird part was that the Chinese people who live in the house whose tree she hit never came out even though they were home. You would think they would want to know who hit their tree in case it later died, and they needed to replace it.

      • 0 avatar
        DeadWeight

        I like all people who are good and decent, but have to be honest – and inevitably anti-pc – I get the he!! out of the way of Asian women drivers and stay the he!! out of their way.

        I’ve witnessed things the human brain should not have to be forced to wrestle with due to Asian women drivers piloting all manner of vehicles.

        In a tony Michigan suburb just last week, an Asian women driver took out the side of a restaurant in her Lexus, and in the process slammed into two tables of diners who were merely trying to enjoy a nice lunch on a clear day.

  • avatar

    #1 It’s not advertised well.

    Many people don’t realize you can get it with AWD and a V6.

    Many people don’t realize it has a better infotainment system than ANYTHING coming from Germany.

    Many people don’t realize it has a good interior with luxury features.

    It’s a fabulous city car.

    #2 IT’S TOO GODDAMNNED SMALL.

    It’s at least one class size too small.

    Many people are more likely to spring for AWD in Canada and the North East – but once again – many people don’t even know these cars offer it.

    LET ME ADVERTISE THEM. I’ll get the word out.

  • avatar
    CoreyDL

    I may rent one of these next month (Enterprise). Unless I use the Avis free upgrade they sent me and end up in an Impala or something.

  • avatar
    stars9texashockey

    Who in their right mind is going to buy either this or the Dart after Sergio publicly stated that they’re flawed vehicles and FCA can’t and won’t compete in this segment?

    • 0 avatar
      Timothy Cain

      Valid question.

    • 0 avatar
      redmondjp

      Rental car companies.

    • 0 avatar
      RS

      He needs to discontinue them so Ram and/or Jeep vehicles can use their production lines. Gotta build more of what sells.

    • 0 avatar
      Dan

      Who in the world outside of this website even knows who Sergio is?

      • 0 avatar
        highdesertcat

        The UAW does. And they are afraid. Very afraid.

        • 0 avatar
          VoGo

          Sergio’s using the plant to make more Rams and Jeeps. Increased production; increased employment. No need for fear or the usual anti-union diatribes today.

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            ” No need for fear or the usual anti-union diatribes today.”

            Because actions speak louder than words, like moving more production to China and Mexico.

            Sergio is no fool. His strategy is to produce more worldwide, while jobs in the US stay stagnant or are reduced through attrition.

          • 0 avatar
            VoGo

            I guess you are not aware that FCA is moving production into Sterling Heights.

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            But, but, but, but…. how many other jobs are created overseas and elsewhere?

            For the UAW it would have been more advantageous to have those new jobs created in the US, and then export the products to overseas.

            As it is, the UAW has to be grateful for the scraps they are tossed, as an appeasement to the US gov’t/Fiatsler understanding of 2009.

          • 0 avatar
            VoGo

            Everything you see is through the prism of UAW relations.

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            I grew up in a two-union household, my mom’s and my dad’s, when I was a kid.

            I know how my mom and dad felt about their union memberships, their dues, and the obstacles that their unions presented, waiting on other union members to complete their portion of a job, that could be done more quickly by one person.

            The concept of organized labor was great, at one time, a long time ago, when workers were exploited and oppressed.

            But times have changed. Government mandates and regulations have taken the place of unions.

            If unions in general, and the UAW specifically, had done a better job of labor relations with their employers, they would not be in the dire straits they are in now.

            Keep in mind that American unions are adversarial. Unions outside of the US work in unison with their employers in a collaborative venture for the betterment of all.

            Even American automakers choose to build outside of the US so they won’t have to suffer harassment by the UAW.

          • 0 avatar
            VoGo

            You are proving my point. Sometimes automakers face issues that are not related to labor relations. In this case, FCA is faced with having lousy product in two of the best selling markets (C and D).

            Their cars could be made by Japanese unicorns with PhDs in Kaizen and they would still be crap.

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            It was intentional, because I understand what you communicated and I also wanted to add that unions were instrumental in their rejection from the modern work environment because of their own agenda against their employers.

            If American unions chose not to be adversarial, maybe fewer manufacturers would choose to flee the US.

            It’s a thought. Will it ever happen? I would not bet the farm on it.

            Only in government jobs will unions flourish. And that could also be the reason that anything government is in such a dour state.

            Which gives rise to the likes of Trump.

          • 0 avatar
            VoGo

            Right. Because you don’t feel any obligation to respond to the topic at hand. Each article and every post is an opportunity for you to share your thoughts on the UAW, Obama, undocumented Mexicans and random anecdotes about your family.

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            That’s how it affects me, and friends and family around me.

            I won’t be offended if you scroll past my comments. I only responded to you because you addressed me.

            Different strokes for different folks.

    • 0 avatar
      30-mile fetch

      “Who in their right mind…”

      Someone seeing a brand new $35000 MSRP 200S V6 discounted to $25000.

      Seriously, this is happening in my area and if I were in the market I would strongly consider it. At a 33% reduction in MSRP I don’t see depreciation being so steep or the faults of this car being so severe that this would be a terrible car over the course of the warranty period. And I have no affinity or experience with Chrysler products and am therefore very leery. If someone isn’t burdened by that then they’ve found one fantastic deal.

      I am curious as to how resale values will change when this car is discontinued and the only way to get one is used. Resale may go up; the heavy mark-downs on new models at the dealer cannot be helping current resale.

      • 0 avatar
        yamahog

        Go look at the prices for Chrysler 200s with ~15k miles. They’re really bad. I see Chrysler 200s with clean titles / no body damage go for ~13k with <20k miles.

        • 0 avatar
          30-mile fetch

          Yes, but you can buy a new one for thousands off MSRP. When it is discontinued and that is no longer an option, might the resale rebound a bit?

          • 0 avatar
            yamahog

            It could, but when most leases price the 200 as retaining 30-35% of its value after 3 years, I’m not going to find out whether an 18k loaded, used Chrysler is going to depreciate to 13k after I drive it for a year.

            You’d lose less on depreciation with a new WRX if you got a good price on it and kept it stock.

            It’s not a bad car, but compared to my 2001 Lexus – it’s the same speed, significantly smaller on the inside, and I’d expect the Chrysler to have more problems over the next 50,000 miles, and all I’d get is slightly better mpg and a way better infotainment system.

            I might check out an inline 4 200 when they hit ~10k but that 9 speed transmission has me worried.

    • 0 avatar
      28-Cars-Later

      I want to see Sergio unload on the flawed legislation which forced him to compete in those segments in the first place.

      • 0 avatar
        highdesertcat

        28CL, that will never happen. Sergio is not going to bite the hand that fed him, or the gov’t that enabled him to save his FiatCo and gain full control of the bailed-out defunct automaker once known as Chrysler.

        Sergio’s problem today is that he needs to reduce labor expenses, take advantage of tax incentives, expand his companies more, and produce cheaper goods in places where his products actually sell, like China and Mexico.

        From those locales outside of the US, he can export his vehicles to other markets and do so without hassles from the UAW.

        Sergio kept his word to the spirit and intent of his agreement with the US gov’t re the take-over of Chrysler and the $1.3B bribe he took.

        But he also moved his headquarters, split Ferrari, and possibly quite a few other things that we do not know about.

        Sergio is a pretty smart guy. He’ll press on with what is best for his companies’ owners and shareholders, without regard to labor. And that is how it should be.

        Businesses and employers are in it to make money as best they can, not to be some benevolent entity that coddles and entices labor. Labor is where you find it, the cheaper the better.

        And that is outside the US. Add to that America’s upside-down tax policy and economic dis-incentives for businesses and corporations, and I see great merit in Sergio picking up his toys and going to another playground.

        • 0 avatar
          VoGo

          What legislation? There was a bonus in the contract for selling a car that exceeded 40MPG highway. That’s it.

          This idea that the big bad Federal government forces FCA to sell 200s is complete hogwash.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            This. Chrysler decided to build Darts and 200s because the market for compacts and midsizes is HUGE. Their mistake, basically, was building mediocre compacts and midsizes, and the utter s**t-show marketing plan.

          • 0 avatar
            VoGo

            Are you absolutely certain it wasn’t Obamacare’s fault? How about Benghazi?

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            “This idea that the big bad Federal government forces FCA to sell 200s is complete hogwash.”

            CAFE regulations.

      • 0 avatar
        FreedMike

        What segments, 28…the compact and midsize car segments?

        C’mon…no automaker survives without anything in those segments.

        • 0 avatar
          28-Cars-Later

          I disagree, as evidenced in the case of Chrysler is not likely not profiting on Dart or 200 (just as it did not profit on a compliance car like the 500e). You can only bleed so much “compliance” out of an automaker. I have said it for years, let them build what they want within reason and let the market decide. Why should Chrysler have to lose billions just to provided a subprime buyer with a Dart?

          • 0 avatar
            VoGo

            28CL,
            Your contention that Chrysler is forced to offer the 200 and Dart is false. It was their choice to enter these markets, just as it was their choice to bring substandard product to market and watch it fail.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            False, they are forced to comply with CAFE standards or pay hefty fines per unit. This forces all automakers to embrace and profit in segments which may lead away from their core brands, with the alternative being lose money in those segments or pay fines. Larger companies who enjoy better economies of scale can deal with this, smaller automakers not so much.

          • 0 avatar
            VoGo

            Not true 28CL,
            If what you say were true — that FCA must compete in the C and D segments — then why did they decide to exit those markets? Obviously, they can get away without them.

            There are many ways to win at CAFE, including flex fuels, your mix of truck vs. car, going electric, pushing out wheelbases, etc.

            If FCA’s goal were to sell a lot of C, D cars to meet CAFE, then wouldn’t they focus on making really good ones that customers like, rather than the crap they brought to market? It’s not that hard, even little Subaru does it.

          • 0 avatar
            nickoo

            28 you are correct. VoGo, you know nothing. FIAT was forced by the Feds to develop a 40 mpg car by a certain deadline in order to obtain the rest of Chrysler’s assets.

            That is how the dart was born, that is why it is a total POS. Everyone who knows anything about the bail-outs knows this.

            Sergio, to his credit (and I don’t give him that much credit), is moving on from the horrible dart and the slow selling 200 sibling.

          • 0 avatar
            VoGo

            Wrong again, Nickoo, (but thanks for playing)

            FCA was never in any way forced to offer a 40 MPG car. If you actually read the thread – or a newspaper – you would know that Fiat received a bonus of 5% of Chrysler stock for offering an American built 40 MPG car, but this was never a requirement.

            But I have to give you credit for finding a way to blame the federal government for FCA’s lousy vehicle quality. That takes creativity. Or something.

          • 0 avatar
            Scoutdude

            @VoGo, In someways you could say the FCA was “forced” into offering the Dart as the 40mpg car because Sergio really needed that bonus to complete his deal in a favorable manner.

            But yes the gov’t did not mandate that the build the Dart.

            The 200 was done by choice but again you could say that CAFE is forcing their hand to play in those segments to balance out the rest of its line up.

            Of course since neither has lived up to the sales projections I bet they are still pretty far behind the 8 ball in the CAFE game. They have HEMIs and Hellcats to balance out.

          • 0 avatar
            nickoo

            https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2013/01/government-obama-dodge-dart/

            https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2011/12/what%E2%80%99s-a-dodge-dart-worth-5-percent-of-chrysler/

            https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2011/01/fiats-40-mpg-fiction/

            http://images.thetruthaboutcars.com/2011/01/Binder1-Chrysler-redacted-corporate-docs-as-posted-12-09.pdf

          • 0 avatar
            VoGo

            You really persist. Well, let’s read a quote from Derek’s opinion piece:

            “Ronnie hit the nail on the head with his summation that the Dart, as Chrysler’s first product overseen by Marchionne, was at best the victim of a botched launch, and at worst a failure made of cobbled together Chrysler and Fiat parts.”

            It’s not Obama’s fault that FCA couldn’t make a decent Dart. GM (itself no great shakes in the compact car segment) has done just fine with a 1.4T, easily getting 40+ MPG highway. But FCA mucked it up.

            It was a terrible launch of a terrible car with a terrible drivetrain mix (too many manuals).

            I think we’re in agreement that FCA needed a 40MPG American car to get that last piece of equity. But if you think you’re going to get me – or anyone who knows the car industry – to blame Obama for Fiat/Chrysler quality, you’re high.

  • avatar
    CincyDavid

    No way on earth would I buy one, BUT I’d lease one in a heartbeat if they had a $99/mo no money down deal. The problem is, residuals will be SO awful that it would be tough to make cheap lease deals work.

    It really is a pretty car, especially in black and other dark colors, but why roll the dice on FCA and the goofy ZF gearbox?

    • 0 avatar
      PrincipalDan

      @CincyDavid: You might have the answer, screaming lease deals.

      I wonder if the 200 is all over metro Detroit due to being “assigned” to Chrysler Employees as their cars to drive? I remember when I lived there Pontiac Azteks were thick on the ground because GM employees were being forced to drive them.

      • 0 avatar
        DeadWeight

        The fiat 200 is, in fact, ‘all over’ the metro-detroit area, on highways and byways and everywhere in between as FCA employees and supplier employees (and even general public) lease deals are CHEAP, CHEAP, CHEAP!

        • 0 avatar
          bball40dtw

          According to the Southfield CJD newspaper add, a loaded Chrysler 200S will lease at $188/month with $0 down. Employee buy price is $17600. They have 198 available.

          If that is too much cheddar for you, the Patriot is leasing at $128/month with zero down and has a buy price of under $16000.

          The Ram Big Horn Crew Cab does have a lower lease price than the 200S though.

        • 0 avatar
          VoGo

          Unless you are a woman, which apparently means you are too stupid to pay anything but MSRP, right DW?

          • 0 avatar
            DeadWeight

            Women are generally smarter, more humane, more socially just, more empathetic and more honest than men.

            Vile, filthy pig-men!

            I was going to get my eyebrows threaded Tiki Barber style, but what’s the point?

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            “Women are generally smarter, more humane, more socially just, more empathetic and more honest than men.”

            LOL! DW you haven’t met my woman! When it comes to business, she’s a scheming and downright take-it-or-leave-it shark.

            Last night over dinner she told me in front of our grand daughter and her husband, “Cat, you’ll never get laid again if Hillary doesn’t get elected president.” (She wants me to vote for Hillary)

            To which my grand daughter popped-up and said to her young husband, “and the same goes for you too!”

            So the operative word must be “generally”, although many men would generally disagree with you.

            In many respects, women are far worse than men.

          • 0 avatar
            CoreyDL

            I don’t think I’ve ever heard my parents or grandparents even use that word, “laid.”

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            CoreyDL, what is even more disgusting is catching parents or grand parents in the act.

            But I was surprised she said it in front of our 26-yo grand daughter and husband of 11 months.

            We’ve always been very candid people, never minced words, yet it is still hard for me to accept that the little girl who spend so much time growing up in our household is now an adult with a husband and life of her own.

          • 0 avatar
            CoreyDL

            Oh eww. I heard it once, that’s as much as I was ever exposed to.

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            My wife and I have to very careful about showing PDA when at our old house in the desert. We were used to having the house to ourselves. Now it is overrun with people.

            So, we moved into one of our former-rentals in a hamlet north of there. Privacy encourages kinkiness.

            My oldest son, his ex-wife, and the twins they made after they were divorced, live in our home in the desert these days.

            My oldest son’s wife, Aiko, lives in Japan where she takes care of her aged parents.

            It’s a weird arrangement, but neither wants a divorce.

            Love is weird. And sex can get even more weird the older one gets.

            You may have heard what they say about old women: “they don’t tell, they don’t yell, they don’t swell, and they’re grateful as all hell.”

            Remember that when you get old…..

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            Never had to hear Mom and Dad going at it, thank you Jesus.

            That’s the benefit of the first floor master bedroom.

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            Yeah, but what is worse? As a parent walking in on one of your kids porking his girlfriend who’s wailing with delight because she thinks no one is home,

            or one of your kids walking in on you overhearing their momma moaning, groaning and snorting with pleasure because they thought momma was in pain?

            Naw, seriously!

          • 0 avatar
            VoGo

            C. None of the above. Seriously, dude, TMI.

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            If it is TMI, then why did you initiate the question, “Unless you are a woman, which apparently means you are too stupid to pay anything but MSRP, right DW?”

            Women always get exactly what they want, and women play men like a cheap violin to get what they want.

            And much of the time, women use the sex card to get exactly what they want.

            Often that can lead to unintended consequences, like people walking in on you.

          • 0 avatar
            VoGo

            A. I was chiding DW for his misogynist rant about the woman tailgating him this morning.

            B. My question was in no way an invitation for such personal and nauseating information.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            Chiding him for his interest in the long winded work of Swetnam? Try reading it, its mostly boring with some truths sewn in.

            https://www.thefword.org.uk/2009/09/where_does_the/

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            VoGo, unintended consequences; because without the “personal and nauseating information” I used to illustrate my reply to DW, I doubt I would communicate what I meant to get across.

            You should see the pics that I have of VC that were blown apart by the mini-guns on the AC47. Now that…. will make a grown man vomit.

            I did.

  • avatar
    kit4

    It doesn’t sell because it’s a piece of crap. Driven hundreds of them and the complaints about the horrible transmission, build quality and crappy engine are all valid. Enterprise and Hertz are the only reason it sold at all.

  • avatar
    RS

    Midsize cars should have proper rear seat room. Another case of styling over ergonomics and utility.

  • avatar
    Kyree S. Williams

    That 9-speed is a non-starter for me. Jack was right when he said that it’s rarely ever in the right gear, not that you need someone as experienced as Jack to tell you that. *Anyone* can get that impression after driving it. I’d rather get a pre-owned Fusion SE or Titanium for under $20K. Or an Accord. Or a Camry. Or a Sonata. Or an Optima.

  • avatar
    davefonz164

    Does anybody here actually own a 200 V6 AWD or driven one extensively? I’m curious about your feedback. I may be looking into a used one.

    Prices for a 3yr old model should hover around 11-12 or less wholesale based on current depreciation which is dirt cheap for essentially a Cherokee in different clothing. The 200 should be worth between 30-39% of it’s original msrp after 3yrs.

    • 0 avatar
      gasser

      And Oprah is essentially Beyoncé in different clothing.

    • 0 avatar
      highdesertcat

      One old guy at my church has a V6 AWD. Paid ~$36K for it out the door, IIRC.

      IMO, a little steep. But it works for him and his wife. Aside from his old pickup truck, it is their only late-model mode of long distance transportation.

      • 0 avatar
        30-mile fetch

        Given the discounts I’ve seen on 200s almost perpetually over the last 2 years, he probably paid about $5K too much.

        • 0 avatar
          highdesertcat

          I checked with my bud at Santa Fe Toyota and he told me that he routinely retails an AWD V6 for <$30K, plus tt&l.

          The guy bought this car at a dealership in the Denver area, with high taxes.

          It was really for his wife, and since she was a three-time cancer survivor of three different cancers, he would have paid whatever it would cost him just to get it for her.

          I found out the name of dealership where he bought it, while I was typing this, and I will not recommend these rip-off artists because of their dealing off the bottom of the deck.

          I find it disgusting and repulsive, even though it is the sales staff's mission to part a buyer with as much of their money as they can.

          The sales manager should have interceded and charged a lower price, IMO.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            Sounds like a Dealin’ Doug store to me, HDC…

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            Yeah. Too many of those still around.

            Don’t get me wrong. I wrote the book on extracting the maximum from each buyer by upselling and padding with add-ons and services.

            But even I would differentiate between pure greed and a prudently profitable business transaction.

            To me, selling a 200 for BMW or MB pricing is stretching the ethics-envelope just a wee bit too much.

    • 0 avatar
      bryanska

      I drove an AWD V6 for a week. Heavy, solid, fast, quiet.

      UConnect is the bomb. Best part is the laser gyro that keeps the nav accurate inside parking garages.

    • 0 avatar
      Kyree S. Williams

      But the Cherokee doesn’t drive that well either, not in my opinion.

  • avatar
    jmo

    I had one as a rental a few weeks ago and I don’t know what everyone is going on about – it’s a perfectly fine car. Is it as good as a Camry at the same MSRP? No. Is it as good as Camry when it has +$5k on the hood? Sure.

  • avatar
    Zackman

    I like the looks of the 200, but perhaps the car-buying public is wary of anything Chrysler builds and tired of hearing their history of one crisis after another.

    I wouldn’t buy one based on that fact alone – that and the continual issues with engines, transmissions or both.

    • 0 avatar
      frozenman

      My perception of FCA products and the 200 is such that i would rather drive a nicely depreciated 13+ Crosstour than take a chance on this, incentives be damned.

  • avatar
    Hank

    I like the few I see around. Our local dealer doesn’t make much effort, though. If it’s not a Ram, Charger, or a Challenger, he couldn’t be bothered. No advertising whatsoever at the local level, so the public could be forgiven if they forgot it existed. It reminds me of what Ford did to the Contour.

  • avatar
    Chan

    Most midsize buyers have some price flexibility. Although they have a budget, they want a car that actually works for them.

    The 200’s compromised sightlines, poor rear seat room and confused transmission pretty much make it a non-starter.

    It’s unfortunate that the car was not tested and refined before release. Sergio should have known the market better. The car is a real looker and I wanted to like it.

    That, plus Chrysler has been out of the competition for so long (the previous 200 was even weaker) that people need a reminder that the 200 exists. Marketing is weak as some have said.

  • avatar
    Mandalorian

    For someone who needs cheap transportation this is a great deal.

    Problem is the sedan market is declining and consolidating, getting hyper-competitive as the segments shrink. Not too many full sizers left, and the Midsize/Compact markets are ruled by 5 or so models each. Storied names: The Accord, Civic, Corolla, Camry, etc. Altima and Sonata have the value segment locked down.

    Honestly, Chrysler is better off just buying Mazdas and rebadiging them. The 200 is a very attractive car inside and out, the C has very high quality leather, but the 4-cyl powertrain is a flop. Most cars in this segment sell with 4s not 6s.

    • 0 avatar
      highdesertcat

      “Chrysler is better off just buying Mazdas and rebadiging them. ”

      Sergio is desperately seeking an alliance, a partnership.

      No one wanted Sergio and Fiat in 2009, and no one wants Sergio and Fiatsler/Ferrari as allies/partners today.

  • avatar
    dukeisduke

    I saw a TV ad for these the other day, offering zero percent financing for *84 months*. Will these things last that long?

  • avatar
    MWolf

    To me, Chrysler has trouble making cars. Not trucks or SUV’s. Cars. People remember the reputation that their failures have given them. People see Chrysler products equipped with the 2.7 belching blue smoke in traffic, and remember some of those great transmissions!

    Perhaps that isn’t all of “why”, but it certainly strikes me. All that being said, I like the 200. It’s a nice looking car, and if I were looking for another car, I’d be willing to give one a chance. Things do change, after all. But it doesn’t mean anyone has forgotten the past.

  • avatar
    matt3319

    As a previous 2015 200S V6 AWD owner, I just don’t get why these don’t fly off the lot with all that cash in the hood. I bought my early in and still got $6K off with 0%. Yes, the alpine stereo makes the rear end quiver a bunch. I even had it looked at several times and even had the subwoofer replaces. I just gave up and listen to the stereo with the rattles. The transmission performed well for me after having the computer reflashed as it became clunky around town.

    But for he money it was $15K less than a Regal GS AWD and about the same wig he Taurus SHO. It’s not perfect but is sleek, fast and loaded with Hi-tech!

    I eventually trade with just under 30K on the odo and got $22K trade and got a Cherokee Trailhawk. Love that too.

    The local dealer still had my old 200S as of last week. It’s now listed at $21300. So in pretty sure they used some dealer cash in my trade value. I kinda new that. But whatever! It’s a great car! Just take a look!

    • 0 avatar
      28-Cars-Later

      I’d say you got out at the right time, did well on trade, and your dealer would be wise to unload their 200S at 19/19+pack no BS cut rate pricing while they can. The thing extra clean sub 10K is bringing about 17-19, now with miles and out of warranty soon its a suckers buy at 21 (not to mention crippling future resale and Chrysler reliability). Its funny you mention Regal AWD, those are still bringing some money but I think they also were priced at like 40K+ for some reason (another sucker buy, IMO).

      MY15 Chrysler 200S AWD V6

      04/21/16 ARENA IL $17,000 510 Avg RED 6G A Yes
      04/20/16 PITTSBGH Regular $18,800 1,410 Above BLACK 6ET A Yes
      04/21/16 FRDKBURG $16,400 2,281 Avg GRAY 6G A Yes
      04/27/16 PITTSBGH Regular $19,300 3,634 Above WHITE 6ET A Yes
      04/28/16 PHILLY $20,000 4,203 Above BLUE 6ET A Yes
      04/06/16 PITTSBGH Regular $17,300 4,331 Avg WHITE 6ET A Yes
      04/26/16 DETROIT $16,000 5,725 Avg SILVER 6G A Yes
      04/06/16 PITTSBGH Regular $18,900 6,020 Above WHITE 6G A Yes
      04/18/16 NJ Lease $18,100 6,883 Avg SILVER 6ET A Yes
      04/21/16 FRDKBURG $14,000 7,140 Below BLUE 6G A No
      04/26/16 DETROIT $20,400 9,339 Above WHITE 6ET A Yes
      04/07/16 DENVER $18,500 11,057 Avg BLACK 6ET A Yes
      04/27/16 DENVER Regular $17,700 11,951 Avg GRAY 6ET A Yes
      05/03/16 NEWENGLD $15,300 14,100 Below WHITE 6G A Yes
      04/26/16 OHIO Regular $16,700 16,271 Avg BLUE 6ET A Yes
      04/27/16 DENVER Regular $15,700 19,921 Avg WHITE 6G A Yes
      04/19/16 NEWENGLD $17,000 20,075 Avg RED 6G A Yes
      04/28/16 PHILLY $16,600 20,629 Avg GRAY 6ET A Yes
      04/14/16 PHILLY $15,800 22,343 Avg SILVER 6G A Yes
      04/28/16 PHILLY $18,800 22,665 Above BLUE 6G A Yes
      04/06/16 MINNEAP Lease $16,400 23,068 Avg BLACK 6G A Yes
      04/07/16 NORTHSTR Lease $16,700 23,528 Avg BLACK 6G A Yes
      04/07/16 DENVER $16,500 24,236 Avg BLACK 6G A Yes
      04/21/16 DENVER $18,800 26,496 Above BLUE 6G A Yes
      04/20/16 PITTSBGH Regular $16,900 32,222 Avg GRAY 6G A Yes
      04/12/16 DETROIT $14,600 41,831 Below BLACK 6G A Yes
      04/27/16 DENVER Regular $14,700 43,614 Below GRAY 6ET A Yes

      MY15 Buick Regal AWD Turbo

      11/19/15 DETROIT $20,900 3,904 Avg GOLD 4GT A No
      12/03/15 DETROIT $22,700 4,051 Avg TAN 4GT A No
      02/26/16 PA Regular $21,600 12,592 Avg GOLD 4GT P No

      MY15 Buick Regal AWD Premium 2

      12/04/14 DETROIT $28,700 305 Avg RED 4GT A No
      03/23/15 ORLANDO $25,000 16,031 Avg GRAY 4GT A No
      11/19/15 DETROIT $23,900 13,631 Avg RED 4GT A No

      MY15 Buick Regal AWD Premium 1

      10/27/15 PA $23,400 9,383 Avg BLACK 4GT P No
      11/18/15 PITTSBGH Regular $23,300 2,036 Avg RED 4GT A No
      03/10/16 DETROIT $22,800 3,864 Avg RED 4GT A No
      04/06/16 DALLAS Lease $22,100 6,114 Avg BLACK 4GT A No

    • 0 avatar
      davefonz164

      How does the Trailhawk compare in terms of Engine-Transmission combination?

    • 0 avatar
      jkross22

      According to Autotrader, there are nearly 7000 2015 Regal GS’ and Chrysler 200’s for sale in the US. I stopped looking after the first 7 pages, but most of them were either new cars or had a few miles.

      How can the dealers not be blowing these out at this point? They should do what Fiat did with the 500e – make them impossible to ignore cheap leases.

  • avatar
    VoGo

    FCA is facing the same problem that retailers face in an economy with deflation. Even though prices are low, consumers defer purchases, because they know the price will be lower next month. And the cycle continues, as people buy only the bare minimum of what they need.

    I’m not buying a 200 today for $18K, when I know it’ll be $17K next month. And I won’t buy next month, because it’ll be $16K in June…

    • 0 avatar
      DeadWeight

      Deflation my 3rd brown eye.

      Come to motor city and show me the deflation (or the roughly 15 cities I’ve been to in other states in the last 12 months).

      The price of everything needed to live (i.e. must be purchased daily or weekly or monthly) as in food, housing has shot up spectacularly since the 2009 to 2011 downturn, while the prices of unnecessary discretionary goods (computers, smart phones, some clothing) has been static or mildly deflationary.

      Eat you computers everyone!

      Rent/Housing, Food, Transportation, etc are all rising way, way faster than any bull$hit government pronounced metric, and any deflation in discretionary goods is a drop in the bucket relative to inflexible necessities.

      Quit propagating your bull$hit.

      • 0 avatar
        VoGo

        DW,
        I’m not saying the US is in deflation. It isn’t. I am just using a deflationary economy as an analogy to explain why 200 sales are slow.

        You’re on a roll today.

        • 0 avatar
          DeadWeight

          VoGo – “Your bull$hit” should be read/interpreted as *official BLS* bull$hit.

          That comment wasn’t meant to be longer at you even if you believe the ‘deflation byline’ that the government agencies are peddling.

          • 0 avatar
            VoGo

            DW,
            I am NOT making any statements about the level of inflation or deflation in the US economy. I was only trying to show why 200 sales are low.

            I really don’t think you’re reading my posts.

          • 0 avatar
            Scoutdude

            VoGo why would DW read your entire post, he doesn’t have time for that.

      • 0 avatar
        28-Cars-Later

        Some commodities did deflate, but most other things have kept price or inflated due to horrible monetary and political policy of the continued economic depression brought to you by: the establishment™.

    • 0 avatar
      jkross22

      You think the 200 isn’t selling because of deflation? Oh my.

      I’m sure it has nothing to do with uncompetitive product priced poorly that’s being sold by a damaged brand with questionable (I’m being nice here) build quality and a crappy transmission.

      • 0 avatar
        Scoutdude

        Yes he is saying that people are buying it because it, the 200, is in a state of deflation. No where did he say that any economy, let alone the US economy was in a state of deflation.

        What you say is true as one of the underlying problems. The bigger issue is the sweater opened his big mouth, said they are crap, we have way to many, we need to stop production, we are discontinuing it, we’ll look to sell a rebaged product to replace it ect. Each time he opened his mouth he deflated the value of the product. So now many prospective purchasers are playing the waiting game to see just how low they are willing/need to go to clear them out.

  • avatar
    Der_Kommissar

    Can’t stand the dash with the standard, tiny screen. Interior is also too curvy for me. C models are better, but it’s just too feminine. Not that there’s anything wrong with liking it if that’s what you like.

  • avatar
    redapple

    200 haters or fence sitters.
    Drive one. If you have not, you really dont know how good or bad it is.
    I had a rental 200 in DTW a month back. It was very good. Drove well. Quiet. Cool – innovative center console.
    I would jump on one at $17k in a flash if in the market.
    And I ve had 4 Accords and put 250,000 miles on them.

    If only i could get a 300 with $10,000 on the hood.

  • avatar
    FreedMike

    Said it before and I’ll say it again…this car isn’t nearly bad enough to earn all this B&B hate. The reason 2016’s aren’t selling is simple: the market is flooded with lightly used 2015’s, which FCA made the unfathomable decision to pump into rental fleets at an astounding rate.

    Look at that list 28 posted. How do you sell a new one when a lightly used one (which is probably CPO to boot) is a couple hundred feet away in the used section for a lot less money?

    FCA completely boned the marketing of this car. And that’s a shame, because as long as you’re not looking for a huge back seat, it’s a decent driver (downright entertaining with the Pentastar).

  • avatar
    PentastarPride

    The prices are very tempting. However, I’m perfectly content with my 2013 Limited (JS-platform), which I actually prefer over the new UF-platform 200 for many reasons.

    The JS-platform 200 is equipped a proven drivetrain. Mine has the four-cylinder engine and the 62TE transaxle, both of which have been out for about ten years with no real big issues.

    And, the JS 200 just looks better. Say what you want about the “Sebring roofline”. It’s sleek yet conservatively styled, something Chrysler has been known for until recently.

    Furthermore, it has less electronics. This is a car I can confidently keep for ten years or more. So far, it has only required a set of tires and oil changes, and that is with almost 50k miles.

    The new UF-platform 200 has seen some transmission problems, which have been fixed recently. It’s not Chrysler this time, it’s ZF. What’s more, the car resembles a Kia, a big negative in my eyes. If I have to replace my 200 for whatever reason, it’s either another JS-platform or a 2011-14 300 (before the 2015 refresh).

    I do feel for FCA and specifically Sterling Heights Assembly. Too bad that Chrysler’s midsize cars continue being rental fodder. That’s what a Camry is for.

  • avatar
    Scoutdude

    It shouldn’t be too long before the 0 down $99 per month lease with lots of miles is available on the 200. Then of course Sergio will try to merge/unload the company before those come back to bite them in the ass.

  • avatar
    zip89105

    The 200 isn’t being discounted where I live so it’s no surprise they’re aplenty.

  • avatar
    Jeff S

    I drove a rental 200 in 2012 with the 4 cylinder and it was not too bad. I am not in the market for a sedan but if I were I would jump at this especially if I could get a fully optioned 200 for 10k off. The 200 would not be one of my top choices but it is not as bad as many think and at the right price I could live with it.

    I agree Sergio should have kept his mouth shut. Chrysler needed another Iacocca who was a real car guy and a real leader. Not too many like that around anymore. Iacocca made you feel good about Chrysler products.

  • avatar
    nickoo

    Soon there will be no reason to even sell the 200. The 300 is just so much better for not much more money. If chrysler wants to move metal, I suggest dropping the 200 and repricing the 300 where the 200 used to be. I know I’d jump on a 300 if it were selling moderately equipped in the mid 20s. What I’m saying is, if I have 25-27 to spend on a car, and all I can get is a lousy 200, why wouldn’t I just go buy an optima/accord/what-have-you?

    • 0 avatar
      Shawnski

      FWIW, I have driven a 200S extensively and rented Chargers with the P3.6. In virtually every way I thought the 200S was the better car; more nimble, tighter body structure, faster, better steering (w/little torque tug) and better interior materials. Why no love for the 200? It even looks good IMO.

  • avatar
    Parousia

    Now up to $7500 off. Before you ask for another $2500 off.

    http://www.chrysler.com/en/incentives/?modelYearCode=CUC201609&pid=126296535&adid=299525189&spid=0&sid=905577&channel=display&bid=9291233&buytype=IM&TR=1&cid=0

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