By on November 28, 2015

2017 Cadillac XT5 luxury crossover

Speaking to Automotive News, Cadillac chief Johan de Nysschen said that the automaker’s strategy will be to price cars much lower than the Germans and eventually raise prices as the brand gains traction.

Cadillac has to heap incentives on its cars to move them off lots, he said.

“Knowing that, it seemed to be more sensible to price CT6 right and let the car gain traction,” de Nysschen told Automotive News. “We need to give the car time to establish a reputation. With a very compelling product offering and a good price, I think that’s the way to do it.”

When the 2016 Cadillac CT6 goes on sale in March, that car will cost nearly $55,000 to start — well below the BMW 7 Series, which starts at around $82,000 and the Mercedes S Class that’s around $95,000.

Cadillac hasn’t announced pricing for its XT5, which will go on sale next year after the CT6. It’s likely that the car will undercut German competitors such as BMW’s X3 and Audi’s Q5, which both hover around $40,000 to start. Cadillac’s outgoing SRX starts at just over $38,000.

De Nysschen said Cadillac will use the same strategy used on the CT6 when it prices the XT5, but stopped short of saying how much it would cost when it goes on sale. The Cadillac chief only said that pricing would be “competitive.”

It would be a fine line to walk for Cadillac, however. Even at $38,000 to start, and on an outgoing car, the SRX is still the brand’s best-seller.

The newly unveiled XT5 and CT6 will be the first all-new cars under de Nysschen’s tutelage, who took over at Cadillac after stints at Infiniti and Audi of America.

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124 Comments on “Will The 2017 Cadillac XT5 Start Below $35,000?...”


  • avatar
    RHD

    $35,000… that’s Hyundai territory!

    • 0 avatar
      alexndr333

      The CT6 pricing is an interesting strategy. From cadillac.com’s build-your-own page, here’s the pricing of the CT6 with the V-6:
      CT6 MSRP Starting at $56,490
      Luxury at $61,390
      Premium Luxury at $64,565
      Platinum at $84,460 (!)
      It appears that you could price a base V-6 CT6 at 2/3rds the cost of a full-zoot model. Maybe still cheaper than a top 7 Series or S-Class, but a lot of money just the same.

      • 0 avatar
        DeadWeight

        Johann did a 180 on pricing and just acted as if his prior statements and mission statement re Cadillac being good enough to be priced alongside zeeee Germans neeeeever eeeeeeeven happened.

        That’s so Johann!

        Having said that $54,999 gets one a stripper, 4 cylinder CT6, which can be optioned up to hardcore 7 Series territory at 88k to 95k (Platinum), which Cadillac has not proven they are deserving of in any way, shape or form, for any reason, whatsoever.

        Johann, Melody-CT-Lee & Uwe Pen Boy had better “nut up!”

        PHRASING.

        • 0 avatar
          28-Cars-Later

          Take it as a complement as JdN is reading TTAC and probably you specifically.

          • 0 avatar
            DeadWeight

            Johann wants 5 years and 12 billion dollars to ATTEMPT to turn Cadillac around.

            I could do it SUCCESSFULLY in 2 1/2 years an for 3 billion.

        • 0 avatar
          bd2

          No – that was JdN’s plan from the start – both pricing AND packaging.

          The previous regime messed up the packaging on the ATS and CTS and JdN couldn’t make a substantial move with regard to pricing w/o pissing off previous buyers.

  • avatar
    Matzel

    When was Cadillac really (ever) a true alternative to Mercedes or BMW?

    • 0 avatar
      matador

      When Gerald Ford was in office, maybe

    • 0 avatar
      DeadWeight

      Out on the road today, I saw a PHISH sticker on some wedgy, ubiquitous Cadillac
      A little voice inside my head said, “Don’t look back. You can never look back”
      I thought I knew they finally knew what plush luxury was
      What do Johann, Pen Boy & SoHo Melody Millennial-Lee know?
      Those days are gone FOREVER
      I should just let them go.

      • 0 avatar
        DeadWeight

        This would fix most of Cadillac’s problems:

        No 4 cylinder powered cars…period, end of discussion. We put a man on the moon a half century ago. Meet (or don’t) CAFE standards with 6, 8 and maybe even 10 or 12 cylinder motors, period.

        Sh!tcan Johan de Nysschen, Uwe Pen Boy & Melody Millennial Arena Speech Chick SoHo fashionista CT-Lee with abusive haste.

        Have most front and rear useable passenger space and trunks space in each and every segment they compete in.

        Focus on quiet, PLUSH riding, SOLID vehicles with excellent build quality, REAL leather standard, at least good reliability, and a 10 year/100,000 mile bumper to bumper warranty.

        Smallest car should be current CTS sized or larger.

        CTS style car with much more plush and V6 as entry offering should start at $33,900.
        XT5 should start at $33,900.
        XTS should start one dollar above LaCrosse starting price.
        CT6 should start at $44,000 with a V8 standard, and top out at $59,000.

        Every Cadillac employee should be forced to drive nothing but Cadillacs – no exceptions.

        Ideally, the V8 take rate should ultimately exceed 75% of all Cadillacs sold.

        • 0 avatar
          bts

          It really depends what car you’re talking about when you say 4 cylinder powered Cadillacs shouldn’t exist. The CT6 actually has a turbo 4 as the base engine and that’s a mistake. But the V6 does a fine job in the CT6 considering its weight. For the CTS sized car and SUV, there shouldn’t be a 4 cylinder either, but the 2.5 engine in the ATS is actually fairly powerful and is doing a fine job.

          There really is no place for 10 and 12 cylinder Cadillacs yet. What I’m confused about is why the Escalade uses a variant of the V8, but the CT6 doesn’t and instead uses a turbo V6.

          As for the smallest car being CTS sized, that would be a major mistake now that BMW and Mercedes have moved down market. Not to mention the car with a lower base price would get more people into dealerships.

        • 0 avatar

          In other words, Cadillac should become Buick?

          • 0 avatar
            mcs

            >>In other words, Cadillac should become Buick?

            and Chevy is trying to be Cadillac…

            “https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVAOt05uKQA”

        • 0 avatar

          This would fix most of Cadillac’s problems:

          allow me to red light/ green light every single one of their decisions and fire dissenting opinions that are stupid.

        • 0 avatar
          olddavid

          I agree completely with the sentiment that Cadillac and V8 should be synonymous. But, that is more reflective of my age than reality. My Son and his peers couldn’t care less what the cylinder count is, and that grieves me. This pretentious twit they have hired is all hat – no cattle – as my Texan friends would say. He will go down with Roger as a legacy fiasco.

        • 0 avatar
          heavy handle

          “Every Cadillac employee should be forced to drive nothing but Cadillacs – no exceptions.”

          That’s how this whole mess started back in the 1970s. GM had no idea how far behind they were. They thought they could compete with the Germans by softening-up a Chevy Nova and pimping-up a Cavalier. Then Lexus came along and gave them a beating they still haven’t recovered from. They didn’t even realize that they had been crushed, humiliated and left for dead.

          Cadillac employees should be forced to drive the competition. No exceptions.

      • 0 avatar
        matador

        But, I can see you, your brown velour shining in the sun.
        You got that top in vinyl and the radio on, baby.

        And I can tell you that my love for you will still be strong after the boys from SoHo have gone….

  • avatar
    John

    Here’s a free tip Cadillac – stop focusing on young people, and people who want European cars. Focus on your forgotten target demographic – old people who want American cars.

    • 0 avatar
      notapreppie

      It’s the “Hook’em when they’re young” strategy.

      It’s worked for religion for thousands of years, cigarettes for hundreds of years and my marriage for over a decade (no, not like that. High school sweethearts, you sickos).

      • 0 avatar
        John

        Sounds good in theory – but it has not worked. I have yet to see one “edgy urban hipster” driving a Cadillac (except in Cadillac advertisements).

        • 0 avatar
          Mr. Orange

          I see them in Escalades and the former CTS-V coupes.

        • 0 avatar
          Superdessucke

          That’s because today’s “edgy urban hipster” has a transportation budget that barely puts him on a Vilano fixed gear bicycle. Agree they need to get back to their roots – Fleetwood, Eldorado, etc. I’d love to see a return of the d’Elegance package on this.

      • 0 avatar
        MrGreenMan

        It’s a shame GM doesn’t have a brand portfolio that would allow them to target one brand at youth/poor people and another brand at 30-40 somethings with some money (but also a mortgage and some debt to retire), and then they could protect Cadillac as something aspirational.

        • 0 avatar
          jthorner

          “It’s a shame GM doesn’t have a brand portfolio that would allow them to target one brand at youth/poor people and another brand at 30-40 somethings with some money (but also a mortgage and some debt to retire), and then they could protect Cadillac as something aspirational.”

          That is what Pontiac and Oldsmobile were for. GM screwed up its brand royally from the late 1970s on and never has been able to get its head straight since.

    • 0 avatar
      shaker

      Old people have figured out that they don’t want to lower themselves into a land yacht, but would rather sit high in captain’s chairs; even paying $30k for Buick Encores to enjoy that “Crow’s Nest” type perch.

      ARRRRRRRR!

      Caddy would sell a lot of mini-SRX models, if they chose to go there.

      • 0 avatar
        Superdessucke

        Yup, and this is GM’s chance to cash in on some past brand equity and bring back the plush Caddy, since the driver’s versions obviously aren’t selling. Offer interiors similar to these in a variety of colors and they won’t be able to keep them in the showroom.

        http://oldcarbrochures.com/static/NA/Cadillac/1979_Cadillac/1979_Cadillac_Brochure_1/1979%20Cadillac-13.html

      • 0 avatar
        philadlj

        “mini-SRX models”

        Oh, they’re GOING there. The XT3 will be a thing.

  • avatar
    blueflame6

    It’s just adorable that Cadillac thinks the CT6 is going to compete with the S Class or 7 Series.

    • 0 avatar
      DenverMike

      You might be surprised how many of us would never in million years own a German car. For me, it comes down to Cadillac or Platinum F-series. But since Cadillac is courting the German car buyer and sticking to crappy/cheesy turbo engines, except for the V-series, it’s looking more like a luxury V8 pickup in my future everyday.

    • 0 avatar
      philadlj

      They don’t. It was made very clear the CT6 is sized and priced BETWEEN the E/5 and S/7.

      The true Cadillac flagship and S/7 competitor, called CT8 or CT9, won’t be along until the end of the decade, according to JdN.

    • 0 avatar
      bd2

      Not supposed to as the CT6 is supposed to compete against SWB flagships which isn’t available in the S Class and won’t be for the new 7 Series.

      As stated, there will be a higher-end, true flagship sedan for Cadillac.

  • avatar
    matador

    Quit going for Audi buyers! They’ll buy an Audi!

    Go for those of us who don’t necessarily want something from Germany, but want a big, floaty American car. Make ’em nice, and we’ll buy them. There aren’t a lot of us, but how many are you guys selling now?

    • 0 avatar
      Hummer

      I would say the market for a truly American car is unknown, the only truly American car that’s been produced in the last 15-20 years is the Crown Vic, and how many decades old was that platform?

      • 0 avatar
        matador

        An American car doesn’t have to be rear wheel drive. I own a LeSabre, and it has those American attributes- big, floaty, and comfortable. Even though it’s a bit of a complicated situation, I’d call the Chrysler 300 the descendant of the Crown Victoria. It’s platform doesn’t date back to the Carter administration, either.

        I don’t know how well they’d do, but I do know that being a “me too” company won’t do well, because you’ll be forced to stay in the low price bracket. Mercedes and BMW have more brand appeal than Cadillac will have for ages.

        • 0 avatar
          Mandalorian

          The two most American cars out there are the Cadillac Escalade and Lincoln Navigator, they’re not going anywhere.

        • 0 avatar
          DeadWeight

          The Chrysler 300 Limited, which can be had in rwd form for $34,000 real world pricing, and in AWD form for $36,000 real world pricing (base models with leather can be had for around 27k), is far more Cadillac or Lincoln than any Cadillac or Lincoln made today, with a plush ride, solid body/chassis, and gobs of torque and passenger room, with a relaxing, quiet, plush ride and nice accoutrements.

          I’d say the same of the Hyundai Genesis, which can be had at the 33k price point real world with the 3.8 liter, and has finally gotten a proper suspension, and way better, build quality, reliability, fit/finish and technology than ANYTHING from Cadillac at even 2 1/2 the price.

          • 0 avatar
            05lgt

            True Caddies were never dungeons for rear seat passengers. The back seat of a 300 isn’t what it was 50 years ago. It’s sure not a real Cadillac.

          • 0 avatar
            Zackman

            I agree with you, but the 300 has ONE THING against it – it’s a CHRYSLER product!

            I don’t think any other U.S. OEM has been more battered in the court of public opinion over the last 25 years than them. They still can’t get their zillion-speed tranny right!

          • 0 avatar
            sportyaccordy

            Agreed, though I am still not sure that betting on large sedans in the future is smart. The only car holding on to sales in that realm is the S-Class. Everything else is way down from earlier peaks.

            Regarding rear seat space…. a lot of the big cars from the 60s-70s had terrible packaging and surprisingly cramped back seats.

          • 0 avatar
            gtemnykh

            “and passenger room”

            I’d actually argue that the 300 comes up short both in rear legroom and in trunk space. Jack mentioned this in a rental review once I believe. Time for an Imperial come back? Stretch the 300 wheelbase 2-3 inches, stretch out the trunk overhang another 3 inches, there ya go.

      • 0 avatar
        Big Al From 'Murica

        Today’s American cars have a bed on the back.

    • 0 avatar

      Your Cadillac XTS awaits.

      • 0 avatar
        matador

        Do they have to make it look like that, though?

      • 0 avatar
        MrGreenMan

        I complained on TTAC that the XTS would be a dud because it was narrow and ugly, wouldn’t fit people comfortably because you couldn’t fit three adults across the back seat, and they were replacing the storied G/H/K platforms with a stretch of a stretch of a stretch of a G6 with the exact same hard points that make shoulder room uncomfortable in those cars. Other commenters at the time questioned who really wanted three across, and wouldn’t people just buy an SUV anyway – and that’s not the point. Room for three comfortably means the luxury of space for two.

        The XTS was always a sickly successor to the De Ville. They should have brought over that Holden that became the SS and stuck an art-and-science nose on it and sold that as the XTS – not the final car for the slot, but a nice, big Cadillac.

        A short Malibu has body roll – I can’t imagine how uncomfortable the XTS is when you try to accelerate around a curve, because I didn’t see the point in test driving it.

        • 0 avatar

          First of all, the XTS has been a perfectly reasonable success for Cadillac, and probably done more for the company than the previous DTS ever did.

          Second of all, I’ve not seen space as a complaint for the XTS. Town Cars were that spacious, neither were XJs, but people still perceived them as ideal luxury wafters.

          Thirdly, you complain about body roll but want big and floaty. Bad news, my friend: one often accompanies the other. Go drive that oh-so-good De Ville and tell me if it has body roll while accelerating around a corner.

          Lastly, how can you claim that Cadillac doesn’t deliver a car with the driving experience you want, when you can even be bothered to test drive the vehicle that might do it??

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            “First of all, the XTS has been a perfectly reasonable success for Cadillac, and probably done more for the company than the previous DTS ever did.”

            Whats your logic on this?

          • 0 avatar

            The DTS had a terrible interior and basically marketed itself on its available engine. It was rarely seen, and hard to distinguish from the other Cadillac sedans of the time (STS? Kinda the same?).

            The XTS is unloved by people like us, but is all over the place, visible in the form of limo services as they replace their aging Town Cars. It looks decent in person, and gets more people riding in Cadillacs than before, it has the values that its target non-fleet clients care about (comfort, space, fast, largish), and lacks features they don’t care about (RWD). It’s showing people that Caddy can do nice non-trucks, nice interiors, and cars that ride nicely. Just nice, not show stopping. It’s not a flagship, its not marketed as a flagship, but beyond the Escalade, its the one we see the most and that, arguably, has the fewest issues of Cadillac’s sedans relative to its competitors (i.e., NOT the E-Class, A6, or 5-Series). It knows its place, and functions well within it. The DTS did not, and neither does the current CTS or ATS.

          • 0 avatar
            matador

            I know that 28 has more knowledge on this, but even I know that the residual value is garbage on these.

            They’re hideously styled (Though most cars today are), are cramped, and don’t seem much better on the inside than a Buick LaCrosse.

            I’ve ridden in both (Though I’ve never driven either). There is no way that I’d spend much money on one of them. The Lincoln MKS is superior in my mind, but neither of them are quite my taste.

          • 0 avatar
            Mandalorian

            I think Cadillac was in the ideal position about 7 years ago in terms of portfolio. They had a crossover (SRX), the King Escalade, a comfy cruiser (DTS), and a BMW-fighter (CTS). Having a sporty sedan to take on the Germans is a good thing, but now they’ve put too many eggs in that basket. Cadillac needs a comfy cruiser, there are plenty of old people out there who want them, Cadillac really shouldn’t alienate that demographic,

            I think there is a lot of appeal in a DTS-like type car. Smooth, comfortable, spacious, not terribly expensive, even FWD is fine. Begging for RWD isn’t the point of this car, just like a Rolls-Royce rating hp as “adequate”.

          • 0 avatar
            RideHeight

            Parked on the periphery of Target’s lot yesterday to get meds from their pharmacy. Walked up the long row of cars scanning for back-up lights.

            Made it all the way to the handicapped spaces without any scares when a little black Caddy coupe in the very first slot started up. Two things puzzled me:

            1) How can anyone be “handicapped” and still slither into that thing?

            2) The noise level of its I-4 would shame an Elantra.

          • 0 avatar
            ajla

            “the XTS has been a perfectly reasonable success for Cadillac”

            I still don’t get what you are basing this on. What you personally see on the road?

            AFAIK, even GM doesnt consider the XTS very successful.

          • 0 avatar

            @ajla I’m basing it on numbers and markets. The XTS sold as often as the CTS in 2013 (32k), and just a bit less frequently than the ATS in that year as well (38k, and it had been freshly introduced). It’s a model with relatively low development costs for the company (at least, compared to the other models) and which is arguably their “most traditional.” They’ve broken into the airport limo biz with it, which, while not as good as being a non-fleet success, is what supported Lincoln for many years. Plus, it does significantly less damage to their rep to be known for limos than being known as a rental-lot queen (CTS, ATS). Cadillac can consider it what they want, but amongst their other failures (CTS, ATS, ELR) it is a comparative success. Especially when you consider that the XTS belongs to a segment of cars (full-size, FWD sedans) that is shrinking rapidly.

          • 0 avatar
            bd2

            The XTS sold 32k and then in the mid-20k after the new, larger CTS launched – which is pretty good this day and age.

            Compare XTS sales to that of the MKS or RLX (it’s direct competitors).

            And with the XTS and CTS, Cadillac sells far more luxury sedans in the mid-price range than Audi, Lexus, Jag or Infinti.

        • 0 avatar
          sportyaccordy

          ???

          A Holden would make a terrible DeVille replacement. These bad ideas are exactly why you are not an auto executive.

  • avatar
    RWD_by_the_Sea

    Man, I’ve been saying this for years. Pricing the cars at the level of German competition when the brand perception isn’t quite there yet doesn’t make any sense. And just turns off potential buyers.

    Honestly, this is basically the Lexus/Infiniti/Hyundai approach. Hook them on quality and value and gradually raise the price.

    • 0 avatar

      Absolutely. Infiniti failed to understand this when the Q50 came out. They made a car that is a strong successor to the G, but not so strong that it was suddenly equal to a 3-series or C-Class. But where did they price it? Pretty much as an equal. So, here we are, with a good new model that replaces a well-respected, ‘value’ delivering model…and sells half as frequently (no, really, the Q50’s best year was 35k, the G averaged over 65k between 2003 and 2008, and sold 57k in its final year).

      Astounding how much that company has failed, truly astounding.

  • avatar

    This is a proven strategy, but will they do it, or will it be like BMW, where there is unicorn 3 series under 35k, but all the ones on the lot, ordered by the sales manager, are 50K ?

  • avatar
    Rday

    More useless information about a car division of a disreputable car company that turns out problematic products that are sold at heavy discounts to not to bright consumers.

  • avatar
    Kyree S. Williams

    To be fair, I don’t think the CT6 is a match for the BMW 7-Series, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, or any of the other major luxury flagships. There’s something missing, and you can tell. Thus, the CT6 *should* be a lot cheaper than those other cars.

    However, this XT5 is competitively-matched against the Lexus RX and Lincoln MKX (both of which were recently redesigned) in terms of design, features and size. Thing is, those cars are already pretty inexpensive for what they offer; they’re priced in-line with European crossovers that are at least a class-size smaller, if not two.

    • 0 avatar
      05lgt

      I think Cadillac likes to pretend Ford and Lexus don’t exist. At least in public statements, they’re not trying to assiciate themselves aspirationally the way they are with BMW and Mercedes. Why give the real compitition free mentions? Problems start to creep in if they’re continuing this illusion in the boardrooms.

    • 0 avatar
      alexndr333

      I agree with you, Kyree, that something is missing from the CT6. In fact, it’s my belief that GM styling is still stuck in 1964. It’s like they are still running away from the chromed excesses of 1958 and 1959 – even today. I’m as much a fan of the minimalist modern style as anyone, but the Germans moved on to something more decorative and nuanced without going Baroque. Until Cadillac recovers from its past – not embracing it, but moving on – it will continue to produce ‘something missing’. I write this while very much wanting a CT6 – I just don’t know if I’ll get one.

      • 0 avatar
        28-Cars-Later

        Wait a year and I’ll tell you how they are doing on the block. Historically Cadillac is not something you buy new unless you don’t care about pissing money away.

  • avatar
    Big Al from Oz

    I do envisage problems with Andy Warhol (Nysschen) from Soho plan of offering cheap Kia and Hyundai pricing.

    1. The Germans will compete.

    2. This will move Caddy into new territory and it will compete against the likes of a Kia Sorento. What would you rather own? A Kia or a Caddy? Not hard the Kia.

    3. Once pricing is down it will be harder for Caddy to increase pricing. The only way is for the demise of other prestigious brands to disappear, somehow I can’t foresee this occurring.

    4. This will place Caddy in a position where it’s a Buick competitor.

    5. Why would you buy a Caddy when there are so many other prestige brands out there.

    GM must sell/off load Caddy instead of attempting to compete. How much money, or better still does Caddy produce?

  • avatar
    65corvair

    “Low” priced luxury cars is why we have Buick.

    • 0 avatar
      wmba

      Is it indeed?

      Was in one recently and it reeked of cheap to me. Here’s a lovely photo of standard GM beige interior. Note the superb, precision fit of the door to dashboard on each side, and the plush fittings.

      http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/Buick_LaCrosse/2015/photos-interior/

      • 0 avatar
        DeadWeight

        LMAO!

        Cadillac needs to worry WAY more about Hyundai/Genesis than Audi, Lexus, BMW or Mercedes.

        • 0 avatar
          RobertRyan

          Hyundai/Genesis especially

        • 0 avatar
          Big Al from Oz

          DeadWeight,
          Your statement is rings of truth, regarding the perception of the “Amercian” luxury vehicle, or even prestige vehicle for that matter.

          By American I’m talking big three.

          Here in Australia FCA brands like the Grand Cherokee is regardly with more esteem than here in Australia. American vehicles are classed and compete with the Koreans. The biggest difference is the lack of reliability in the US vehicles and a slight variation in build quality.

          The “foreign” manufactured US built BMWs, Toyota Kluegers, etc are not advertised or spun here as US made. I do think this would scare of the consumer.

          Japanese and Korean vehicles are best regarded for reliability and quality to a degree. Euro vehicles are viewed in a more prestigious light.

          Cadillac is only viewed as luxury in the US, I don’t believe there is an appreciable market for them outside of the US.

          If this is the case and Caddy has little chance of export, I would let the brand die off. Unless a chicken style tax is in place to protect Caddy.

          • 0 avatar
            Big Al from Oz

            I do apologise for the quality of my comment. I’m typing a sentence in front of the visible text. Then back stepping to rectify any errors. I’m obviously not hitting the target.

        • 0 avatar
          bd2

          Don’t think Cadillac worries too much about Lexus as they sell mostly cheaper FWD models.

          Or for that matter Audi.

          Cadillac sells way more of the CTS and XTS than Audi does the A6 and A7.

      • 0 avatar
        MrGreenMan

        I’ll give you that dashboard looks crooked in the photo you linked, but that’s not a GM standard interior of even 10 years ago. It looks like they have a brown color pallette, which can be attractive (doesn’t TTAC want a brown interior to go with its brown exterior?), and the brown and beige at least appears to match tastefully with the wood in the picture provided. 10 photos deeper in there was all black, and it looked like deeper still it was some kind of olive. All of these are staid old-money color palettes.

        It has all the gizmos and for some stupid reason people started to think that more buttons meant more luxury, kind of like the panel gap and soft-touch plastic phase of reviewing automobiles from the backseat of mom’s Honda or from sitting in them at the auto show when dad decided to bring you along.

        There is one thing we could get from the auto show sit-test that we can’t from the pictures, and It’s a Buick, so the number one question – are those seats comfortable? Because that was their secret for a very long time. It looks like they’ve at least tried to make those seats comfortable.

  • avatar
    dwford

    Cadillac can’t price the XT5 at $35k to start with the Buick Envision coming next year. The Encore tops out at about $31k, and you have the GMC Terrain that can price to $38k, so how can you have a stripped Cadillac competing against loaded Terrains and Envisions in the same showroom?

    • 0 avatar
      APaGttH

      GMC Terrain goes over 40K in Denali trim.

      Tops out price versus basement price is not a fair comparison.

      The Encore starts at $24K (2016 model year – Buick website, rounded)

      The Enclave starts at $39K (2016 model year – Buick website, rounded)

      The Chevy Equinox starts at $23K (2016 model year – Chevrolet website, rounded)

      The Terrain starts at $24K and the Terrain Denali starts at $34K (2016 model year, GMC website, rounded)

      If the GMC Terrain Denali starts at $34K, then $35K for the start of Cadillac is about right. You can still pump that Denali trimmed Terrain up to $40K.

      GM has the room between the makes and models – the one thing that made me go holy @$$ crackers is seeing the entry level price for a FWD baseEnclave has swollen to almost $40K – yikes!

      • 0 avatar
        dwford

        So they already have the problem of the subcompact Encore starting for the same price as the basically midsize Terrain, then they are going to add the Encore in probably starting around $28-30k, and going over $40 for sure, so how many overlapping models do you need in the typical Buick Cadillac GMC showroom? And it is a legitimate tradeoff for a customer to compare the value of a loaded midlevel brand to a base luxury brand.

        • 0 avatar
          APaGttH

          Have you seen Equinox, Terrain and Encore sales?

          How exactly is the current pricing strategy a problem?

          • 0 avatar
            Dave M.

            MSRP – 20% = actual sales price

          • 0 avatar
            Richard Chen

            Looking at outgoing 2015 SRX prices, that 20% off figure is about right.

            If deNy & Co price the XT5 at $35K it will be equivalent of the current stripper, FWD base model w/pleather, missing a spare tire (or any major options). Think: fleet special. The SRX AWD starts at $10K higher.

  • avatar
    danio3834

    Do they want to build the brand or sell a lot of cars right now? Luxury brands aren’t built with aggressive pricing, they’re priced absurdly on purpose. Look at how much money BMWs and Mercedes vehicles were selling for in the 1970s and 1980s when they gained popularity. As luxury cars, they were mostly a joke. They became a luxury good based on the luxury pricing and exclusivity.

    • 0 avatar
      CJinSD

      BMW’s 2002s were gaining popularity when they were priced against mainstream US intermediates. They weren’t expensive cars until the dollar collapsed against the deutsche mark in the early ’70s. BMW had been making inroads since 1966 with the 1600-2 and 1968 with the 2002.

      Lexus established themselves with very aggressive pricing connected to cars that were several years ahead of their competition. The superiority of the product was sufficient to command well over list price, and then list prices soon caught up with the competition.

      Cadillac can try whatever they want. When they claimed they would price directly against their desired competition, we all said they were nuts. They failed miserably, and discounts followed. When Cadillac says they’ll price near actual transactions in order to sell vehicles, we say they’re destroying their credibility as a luxury brand. Maybe they should give up.

      • 0 avatar
        danio3834

        Then there’s the Hellcat approach. Give the consumers more than they can get anywhere else and watch people pay whatever is asked. Lately, Dodge has had far better success in moving 70k cars than Cadillac.

        • 0 avatar
          CJinSD

          That’s a good point. If not for CAFE making such cars niche, that might be a winning strategy for Cadillac, provided the engines don’t grenade.

          • 0 avatar
            05lgt

            Does Cadilac have to meet CAFE as a brand, or can it be blended with Korean Chevrolets as part of the larger GM fleet?

          • 0 avatar
            derekson

            A strategy for limited production cars with 700 HP is not a winning strategy for anyone in any way besides good press. It’s great for Chrysler that it’s worked out, but a few thousand Hellcats aren’t going to save any brand.

          • 0 avatar
            CJinSD

            I suspect those Korean Chevrolets are already offset by various CUVs and trucks that don’t meet their own targets.

      • 0 avatar
        Big Al from Oz

        CJinSD,
        I do know here in Australia the Datsun 1600 was considered the 2002’s competition.

        Datsun was considered an economy brand back in the early 70s.

        • 0 avatar
          CJinSD

          Even when 1600-2 BMWs were affordable, they were a class over their clones. The Datsun 510 had a considerably cheaper interior than the 2002. It was well regarded here, but as a low priced BMW alternative. If they competed directly in Australia, nobody should have bought a Datsun. Toyota and Honda may make better cars than BMW does, but Nissan never has.

        • 0 avatar
          outback_ute

          Sorry Al, the 2002 was more than double the price of a Datsun 1600 back in 1970. It cost the same as a Falcon GT.

          As for the Cadillac XT5, they shouldn’t cut the price too much or it will do just as much damage as being too expensive is now, and people will still expect the same discounts. Radical moves would be a mistake. Better to focus on equipment and the value proposition.

    • 0 avatar
      RideHeight

      Luxury car vs. luxury good is the key concept and, for all the scoffing she receives, the core distinction driving Melody Lee’s mantra, I think.

      I believe this can be accomplished in complete defiance of the car guy values that sold those old, miserly but expensive Benzes and Beemers, but *never* by timidly begging for ordinary car money.

    • 0 avatar
      bd2

      Um, the Lexus LS all-time best sales year was when the LS400 was priced at the absurdly low MSRP of $35k.

      And there’s a reason the ES far outsells the GS.

  • avatar
    SC5door

    Dear Cadillac,

    LOLOLOLOLOLOL!

    Sincerely,

    Peter Schreyer and the Genesis brand.

    ps

    All of our models are RWD.

    • 0 avatar
      APaGttH

      Lets see – buyers are abandoning cars.

      Buyers want CUVs and SUVs.

      Genesis offers a sedan and a two-door coupe that really no one wants.

      Just sayin’

      • 0 avatar

        For the time being…

        Hyundai is launching Genesis as a brand, and has a whole boatland of models launching within that, including several CUVs. They’re not stupid, they know where the money is.

      • 0 avatar
        Big Al from Oz

        APaGttH,
        It seems most luxury/prestige manufacturers develop a brand name with the car. I don’t know of one manufacturer that started out with SUVs and CUVs.

      • 0 avatar
        SC5door

        Maybe you should do your homework:

        The Genesis Brand will have 2 sedans, a coupe, and an SUV. All of which are RWD. By 2020 there is to be 6 models.

      • 0 avatar
        bd2

        The coupe is staying with the Hyundai brand and may not be long for the world.

        The Genesis lineup will for the near future will consist of:

        – a compact, midsize and fullsize sedan

        – a coupe (larger and more luxurious than the current Genesis coupe)

        – a compact and midsize (3-row) crossover (sources citing one crossover and 1 SUV are wrong)

        All will be RWD.

        As for Cadillac, if Johan has his way, the entire Cadillac lineup will be RWD as well (the XT5 being the last of the FWD models).

  • avatar
    RideHeight

    If Cadillac seriously meant to “dare greatly” they would replace all those little colored segments inside their crest with full-width LGBT stripes.

    Government Motors should reflect its government’s priorities. They’d certainly stand alone and might vacuum up Subie owners looking to step up.

    Unfortunately that would require building a better Subaru.

  • avatar

    Cadillac should follow Tesla’s strategy. Tesla started with a flagship sedan right away and earned luxury creds almost over night competing directly with S class even though was not its intention. It also offered something unique you cannot get from other brands. It offered unique experience, power and beautiful design. Cadillac and Lincoln were also unique luxo barges which other countries tried to emulate. Even Mercedes at some point was considering moving in the same direction design wise – I saw sketches of new Mercedes from 50s which looked as garish as typical American car of 50s looking more like caricature than real thing. Wisely this direction was rejected. But still it shows how much Cadillac and Lincoln were respected around world. Mercedes also was very much respected luxury brand outside of US but the fact that it tried to emulate Americans and not vise versa shows not only how high status Cadillac and Lincoln had before 70s but also the admiration and respect America had around world after WWII. Not anymore. America today is just another country. Russia, China and even Turkey and Iran challenge American interests and behave as if US does not exist.

  • avatar
    gasser

    Several great points are raised above. I just got back from Los Angeles Auto Show. The most amazing things I saw were the sticker prices. No way can Cadillac sell the XT5 at $35000. Many of the Fords (Edge and Fusions) were at this price point. Even the new Prius had a model that topped $30K. I was impressed that the interiors of the more expensive Ford/Honda/Toyota etc were still just so-so dash boards and door panels with upscale leather seating. This to me is an argument to get more of a lightly optioned more expensive car than a loaded one from the big three. (Interestingly, IMHO, GM had the best interiors of the low priced cars.) What puts me off from buying a new car, vs an SUV or a CUV, is the ridiculous height of the hood and belt lines in new cars. I’ve long ago given up on the idea of seeing out the back of a car, but at least let me see over the hood or where the hood ends!! I’m in the Cadillac demographic age (68), but no way will I buy an ATS, CTS or XTS. To my eye they are ugly, cramped and have cost saving interiors.

  • avatar
    "scarey"

    GM has been planning to deemphasize the American market for 40 years. Look to the Chinese market to see where Cadillac is headed.Cadillac is a Chinese brand now, as is Buick, and all of GM (except for Chevy/GMC pickups) soon.
    Osama Bin Laden is dead and General Motors is alive- in China.

    • 0 avatar
      RideHeight

      No one today could dispute the general thrust of your comment but 40 years?

      That puts China 9 years into the Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution, firmly in the grasp of the Gang of Four and Deng Xiaoping watching his family disintegrate under Red Guards harassment while he was enduring forced labor in a tractor factory.

      I’d love to see evidence that anyone in GM or elsewhere in this country had the prescience to foresee China becoming both the main global labor force as well as consumer market for capitalism.

      I’d bet all my Snickers bars that even the most informed Americans circa 1975 would’ve been rather surprised to have this revealed.

  • avatar
    Johnster

    I have a feeling this under $35,000 Cadillac XT5 is going to be a front-wheel drive (2-wheel drive) model powered by a 2.0 Liter Turbo 4.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if it came with “simulated leather” interior trim on the seating surfaces.

    • 0 avatar
      DeadWeight

      No Cadillac should be powered by a scratchy 4 banger.

      To make matters worse, GM makes crappy 4 bangers by relative standards.

      Johann de Nysschen, Uwe Pen Boy & Melody Lee should have the unrefined sounds of a GM 2.0T piped into their offices nonstop.

      • 0 avatar
        28-Cars-Later

        I think they need to drop a cylinder, go for three and compete with the Mirage.

      • 0 avatar

        Agreed. I hear the DI fours, and they clatter like my diesel. Driving my old 3 with NA 6 back to back with a new 3 with the blown 4, I’m not a convert….the six is silky smooth, the four is a four with the power pulses of a four and vibration of a four.

        I may be in the market again soon….my beginning point is RWD/AWD, and a six….tough under 40k in 2015. I have and have had FWD cars with fours, and they are good, but NOT a luxury car.

        A blown 4 is a tough sell for a luxury car. It does not belong there. Save money in the lower tiers, but when I jack 50 large to some large car company, I don’t want to see any cost cutting, and don’t want the engine to clatter, unless, of course, it IS a diesel.

      • 0 avatar
        bd2

        Please – BMW and Audi offer the 5 Series and A6 with a 4-banger.

    • 0 avatar
      28-Cars-Later

      Perhaps but I wouldn’t rule out a standard V6 in all trims due to:

      1. Weight

      and

      2. Cheaper to standardize a V6 than to certify/produce two drivetrains.

      Other than export reasons and general stupidity on the part of Cadillac, the reason the two RWD car models run an I4 is because a turbo I4 was one of the showcase features of the ATS. CTS is an Alpha like ATS as of MY14 I believe so an I4 is already spec’d and possibly certified. The Alpha platform was not originally intended to carry a V6 in its Pontiac/Chevrolet form, the V6 was added later and the platform given to Cadillac for use when Pontiac was folded.

      ““simulated leather””

      I’m not sure, but I was under the impression its already simulated leather.

  • avatar
    Big Al from Oz

    I have been biting my tongue of late, especially regarding some of the comments above relating to “what a Caddy is or should be”.

    The logic behind some of the comments are astounding. Caddy should be put out to pasture and let it become a memory, like many other past US “coachbuilders”.

    Cadillac started to go down hill in the 70s after the first oil crisis, along with much of the US auto manufacturers. This timing coincides with the up turn in the EU and Japanese economies due to the effects of WWII.

    The EU and Japanese by the time of the oil crisis had set up a fantastic model for global operations, an area where the US manufacturers had difficulty mastering. The US manufacturers idea of global operation was to have regional sub units producing specific vehicles for their markets.

    The US auto manufacturers treated these regions like “Little Americas” in the way their businesses functioned with little effort in rationalising their models and making global vehicles like the EU and Japan.

    The EU and Japan had to export because their markets were not big enough to sustain the growth required.

    The likes of Audi, BMW, Mercedes Benz, etc were exported and made a name for themselves.

    Caddy must build what the consumer wants, not cater to some out dated and nostalgic view of the great US luxury automobile.

    Big vehicles are CUVs, SUVs and pickups. This is what the cashed up consumer wants. The car segment is decreasing, why would you in business try and capture the days of yore in a dying segment.

    Then add to this GMs constant attempts at saving Caddy wasting resources.

    For Caddy to be successful it must be a global product and recognised to be on par with the prestigious Euro and Asian marques. This just ain’t goin’ happen.

    GM is 40 years to late in attempting to fix up Cadillac.


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