By on October 16, 2015

2015-Chevrolet-CorvetteZ06-003-sm

When you bring your halo-of-halo sports cars to a competition to sort out the “Best Driver’s Car”, you definitely want to give it a new set of brake pads, make sure all the electrical connections are seated properly, and maybe — just maybe — not send a car that was offed in a previous comparison test.

But that’s just what Chevrolet did for this year’s edition of Motor Trend’s “Best Driver’s Car”, and it came back to bite the General — hard.

In a post on Corvette Forum (via MotorAuthority), Corvette chief engineer Tadge Juechter explained just why the 650 horsepower, LT1-powered Corvette Z06 was unable to finish the test. Since Tadge insists on giving context, here was his reply nearly in its entirety:

During testing at C and D [Lightning Lap] the car went off track into a tire wall. Stuff happens. It wasn’t the first time this has happened and I’m certain it won’t be the last. Fortunately, the damage to the car was cosmetic (rear fascia, supports and the energy absorption assembly). It didn’t have any fundamental structural or chassis damage. The alignment was fine. Basically, zip ties and some duct tape was all it took to make it track-worthy. The car then went out and ran the second fastest Lightening Lap they have ever recorded.

Any time there is an incident like that, we have to tear the car down, replace broken parts and make it like-new again. In the few days we had to prep the car for Motor Trend, we did a tremendous amount of work to make sure the car was safe, capable and pretty. In our haste, two things were missed.We always replace brake pads before delivering a car, but this was missed. I can’t remember this ever happening before, but it did. We have since changed our pre-test check procedure so this can never happen again. Although Motor Trend made it a point in the article, they did not notice any issue with braking performance during their spirited street drives. Our engineer on-site noticed the linings were worn, and they were immediately replaced and burnished. This was done the day before the Z06 was run on track by Randy Pobst and had absolutely no bearing on the results of the test.

The second unfortunate occurrence related to the intercooler circuit. One of our pre-loan checks is to bleed the intercooler circuit to make sure there is no air in it. Some customer complaints about over heating Z06s have been traced to improperly bled intercoolers. The technician doing the work plugged in the electrical connector for the intercooler pump and it seemed to seat and “click” into position, but the secondary latching mechanism did not fully lock into position leading to intermittent operation. Without the pump running there is no coolant flow, no intake charge cooling and the engine pulls spark to protect itself. That is what Motor Trend experienced at random times during their testing. Unfortunately, the connector was seated enough that the pump and engine worked fine in all the pre-test driving done before trucking the car across the country to Motor Trend in California. Remember this is the same car that performed flawlessly a few weeks prior in sweltering heat during Car and Driver’s Lightning Lap. The possibility of bad fuel was discussed because it was clear there was an abundant amount of spark retard, but we didn’t discover the true root cause until the car had returned to the Milford Proving Grounds after the test. We have modified our procedure to run the pump remotely during the bleed process so this issue can be avoided in the future.

If you want to check out the comparison for yourself, here you go.

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101 Comments on “Corvette Chief Engineer Explains Motor Trend “Best Driver’s Car” DNF...”


  • avatar

    “BEST DRIVER’S CAR”

    code for:

    It’s lightweight, it has a manual, it has Pirelli Tires, only little people can fit in it (amputees in back) the engine can get loud if you want it to, it doesn’t have tech features (that you’re too old to understand) or a moonroof, and its cost is affordable on your pension when you go bald and suffer a mid-life crisis.

    BORING

    • 0 avatar
      omer333

      You mad bro?

      • 0 avatar

        I am in a P90D this weekend with Ludicrous mode.

        While the steering is DEAD and provides no road feel whatsoever, the acceleration could literally THROW YOU OUT OF THE DAMN CAR.

        It’s not a driver’s car – but awesome.

        I couldn’t be mad. If you could see me typing this I still have a smile ear-to-ear just from driving to the office.

      • 0 avatar
        319583076

        Forgive me for thread drift, but how are things working out w/r/t your Dart? Any updates?

        • 0 avatar
          omer333

          As it stands right now, I just signed all the paperwork for Chrysler to do the buyback. The car was inspected and everything’s in order on it, it will be sold at auction.

          Now I’m just waiting for a couple checks. Two for me, reimbursement for the payments I made and for a rental car, and one check going to my finance company to pay the car off.

          I really liked my Dart, I am really aggravated that the I was essentially treated badly by Chrysler’s customer-service. Yes, they bought the car back, which is the right thing after their ineptitude, but they should have got an engine for my car a week after it broke. Not almost three months later.

          I feel like if I had bought a Charger, 300, 200, or Challenger, I’d have got an engine immediately. FCA clearly cannot stand beside their product. I will not ever get another car from them again.

          • 0 avatar
            ajla

            Preach it, brother.

          • 0 avatar
            bball40dtw

            You guys need a support group or something.

          • 0 avatar
            05lgt

            @bball40dtw, you reminded me of a bad navy joke: New fish isn’t liking his first cruise and complains to his chief that this isn’t what he thought he signed up for and doesn’t want to continue. Chief says “You should have said something earlier, we have a support group that meets in the closest bar with a seat in every port. It’s called EVERYONE ON THE SHIP! Now get back to work.”

    • 0 avatar
      qfrog

      You like heavy cars with lots of engine so you should be pleased to know that the Mercedes GT S was the winner. Maybe you should go drive one, it might appeal to your tastes.

    • 0 avatar
      Vega

      ‘Only little people can get in’. You see, in our friend’s world of codes little people stands for ‘non-obese’.

      Do you consider a Walmart rascal-scooter a driver’s car?

    • 0 avatar
      VolandoBajo

      BORING, but true…

      It does sound like there were plausible explanations for the fails and it seems like they made the necessary changes, having learned from experience. And this is coming from someone who usually thinks that GMC acquits itself like circus clowns…

      But I thought that his response was a good engineering failure analysis and remediation report.

  • avatar
    ajla

    Could they make version of the Corvette with the 6.0L for people that aren’t interested in owning some temperamental diva?

    The C7 has gone full dime-store Ferrari. I miss the C5 FRC.

    • 0 avatar
      SomeGuy

      Yes. It is called the C7 Stingray Z51 package.

      Or the C6 Grand Sport. Old isn’t always better. I’ve heard enough on Matt Farah’s C5 to know I never want one. Ever.

      • 0 avatar
        ajla

        Farah owns a heavily modified ’98 coupe so I don’t see how you can paint all C5s based on his experience.

        The C5 FRC is my favorite modern era Corvette. Lowest price, lightest weight, higher performance. GM doesn’t offer that kind of package today, but I think they offer three different colors to paint the calipers and a GoPro to record your engine overheating.

        But I really liked the C6 too (aside from the gimmicky door handles) so if it makes you happy “I miss the C6”.

    • 0 avatar
      BDT

      You could just buy a standard issue Corvette Stingray. It offers more capability than 99% of owners will/could ever use. 0-60 in 3.9, top speed of 190+, and 1.08g on a skidpad.

      • 0 avatar
        ajla

        Is it only the Z06 that is having issues?

      • 0 avatar
        VenomV12

        Honestly, I have no idea why people buy Z06s over Stingrays, I have a healthy mix of both new Stingrays and new Z06s in my neighborhood and surrounding neighborhoods and they all pretty much go the same place and are driven by the same people, 50 year old plus physicians, attorneys or guys in finance whose offices are about 5 to 10 miles away and I’ve yet to see any of them break the speed limit. Everyone is running out and buying these, Audi RS7s, E63 AMGs etc etc and they are all the same damn type of people who don’t go fast, don’t ever speed and have never and will never go to a track. I think in 10 years I saw one guy in a Viper briefly race a colleague in his Ford GT and that was about it.

        • 0 avatar
          golden2husky

          I’m glad I don’t fit into that description. My Z51 routinely sees high speeds where safe, and it is stable as all hell no mater what velocity. Maybe I’ll run into BTSR on the LIE someday…perhaps he can keep up – or beat me – in a straight line, then I’ll watch him hit the jersey barriers on the exit ramps.

          To not run a Vette at speed is a shame and a waste. Buy a Camry instead.

    • 0 avatar
      DeadWeight

      Remember, kids; turbocharging and/or supercharging engines via FI is the best thing ever, does not complicate motors to the point of making the less reliable/durable or more finicky/delicate, and doesn’t increase the odds of other troublesome conditions, such as heat soak (which is a fictitious condition according to some of the B&B) or spun bearings, etc.

      TURBO LOVER 4EVER

  • avatar
    jmo

    A Z06 looks to be about $80k. Given the bad press, it seems like it would have been better and cheaper to just pull a fresh one off the line vs. sending one that had been beat on and crashed.

  • avatar
    bball40dtw

    Best Driver’s Car*

    *Test does not include Hellcat, Viper, Alfa 4C, Mustang, Fiesta ST, Ferrari 488GTB, Lambo Huracan, Camaro Z/28, or McLaren

  • avatar
    BDT

    I don’t understand. You have to bleed the intercooler every time you want to drive fast? Is that a normal procedure for forced induction cars?

    • 0 avatar
      LeMansteve

      No, it is not a normal procedure. Like an engine cooling circuit, once the air is bled out and assuming the system has no leaks, you no longer need to re-bleed the system.

      I think GM is saying that some intercooler circuits were not properly bled at the factory. Pre-test bleeding was performed by the GM technician in an effort to contain the issue.

      The other related issue was the poor connection to the intercooler circuit electrical pump. Intermittent connection -> intermittent pump operation -> reduced cooling capacity -> limp mode

      • 0 avatar
        MeJ

        You should check out the Corvette forums…They are in a perpetual state of denial over the problems with their car. No one on there seems to believe this Z06 has serious issues.
        Then again, I suppose most were bought for ‘bragging rights’ rather than to truly test the capabilities (or lack thereof) of this car and spend most of their time washing and waxing and maybe giving her a good rev now and again to impress the local kids…

        • 0 avatar
          golden2husky

          You should check out the Corvette forums…They are in a perpetual state of denial over the problems with their car. No one on there seems to believe this Z06 has serious issues….

          I’d suggest you log on the CF and see the “mega thread” on overheating…sure there are some deniers but plenty of people are more than willing to discuss the problem. Looking for real brand apologists? Log onto Bimmerfest.

    • 0 avatar
      EAF

      Mark, I believe the 650hp S/C Vette engine is an LT4, not an LT1?

      BDT, you’re right it isn’t a normal procedure! GM makes up lies to cover up failures. Overheating engines and limp mode, overheating transmissions and power steering systems, they blame brakes and even fuel octane ratings to justify any poor track performance.

      To date there have been 330 failed 2015 Vette engines. Something like 175 of them have been buy backs. What are total sales thus far? 5.5k? Most are not daily driven, eventually all will have short lives.

      Buy a Miata and bank the rest, IMO!

      • 0 avatar
        golden2husky

        Where did the 330 failed engine number come from? I’m suspicious since you mention 5.5K sales in 2015 when the number is more like 26,000, let alone “short lives”…

  • avatar
    S2k Chris

    Motor Trend? that’s still a thing?

    • 0 avatar
      zip89105

      At least MT told it like it was. My opinion is MT is the best enthusiast mag/website currently published. Sadly, everything MT tests is usually out of the reach of 90% of buyers, and MT’s website/forum is deplorable and badly bugged.

    • 0 avatar
      Waftable Torque

      I get Motor Trend, Car and Driver, and Road & Track for free on my Zinio app, courtesy of my public library.

      The worst waste of 15 minutes a month I spend.

    • 0 avatar
      S2k Chris

      I get the other three (AM, R&T, C/D) and all three are good in their respective niches. MT’s niche appears to be “loud graphics”.

      • 0 avatar

        I think the only useful thing with MT is Pobst’s track comments and times. They also have a huge long term fleet which makes me think their readership may be larger then it has any right being.

        • 0 avatar
          WheelMcCoy

          Randy Pobst is a true talent at MotorTrend. The rest of the magazine I find “meh.” I wonder though, of the big 4, does MT have the largest circulation?

          • 0 avatar
            WheelMcCoy

            A rough google search gave me these numbers:

            Car And Driver: 1.2M as of 12/2014
            Road & Track: 609K as of 12/2014
            Automobile Magazine: 570k as of 2013
            MotorTrend: 1.1M as of 2013

            So MotorTrend and C&D are the “Walmarts”, although I think MotorTrend has the larger internet presence.

            I’m letting my subscriptions run their course. They are all ok, and aren’t expensive, but they are time sinks! TTAC is my sin of choice. :)

      • 0 avatar
        360joules

        I just cancelled Autoweek but it sure had the prettiest photography. The huge Alfa Romeo insert I received with one of my summer issues was 50-some pages of import auto eye candy. PS- should I buy the Athena Pheromones advertised in the back of every auto mag & Men’s Journal? That Winnifred Cutler is a doctor so she must know what she’s doing….

  • avatar
    omer333

    I had a 2010 Civic Si sedan, that was a great car. Amazing on backroads, and easy to drive everyday.

    The problem with the “Best Driver’s Car” is that most owners will never drive it the way it should be, let alone drive it to work. It’ll just be sitting in a garage most of the time or driven to some show n’shine event.

    • 0 avatar
      SomeGuy

      Yep. I see all the hub-bub over the GT350 and GT350R. That car will almost likely never see a race track by most of its owners.

      The winner of this BDC competition this year, I would say has a 0.5% of ever being out on the track. Your local Cars & Coffee? A much larger chance to see it there.

      In other words… I agree 100%

    • 0 avatar
      duffman13

      As a former RSX-S owner, I wholeheartedly agree.

      Toss-able, communicative chassis and steering? Check.
      Near perfect manual transmission? Check.
      Just enough power to get you in trouble? Check.
      Surprisingly good enough on gas to commute with? Check.
      Dead reliable? Check plus.
      Cheap consumables? Check plus.

      The 8th gen Si and the Mazdaspeed 3 came out months after I bought my Acura around 10 years ago. Let’s just say I was kicking myself over the improvements to the suspension geometry (Si), turbo (Speed3), inclusion of an LSD (both), and aux input (both). I eventually moved to an S2000, but that’s a fun car you need a DD with (which I have).

      There really isn’t much of a better blend of those characteristics than an Si Honda aside from maybe a regular WRX or GTI, but that lacks the excellent shifter and/or the reliability of the Honda. But driver’s car you can use every day? Absolutely.

      I can see myself tossing my Mazda 3 in a couple years and trying to pick up a mint 10-11 Si to daily, unless I go the completely opposite direction and get a Genesis. We’ll see.

    • 0 avatar
      DenverMike

      “…most drivers will never drive it like it should be.”

      Stop right there… I decide how it “should be” driven. Maybe at 7/10ths on twisty back roads max. Or is it just for 9/10ths on tracks??

      Track tests are the best way of knowing what the experience will be like at 2X the posted limits on turns. Track tests/attacks are unit of measure, without implying they’re only for tracks or you’re frackin’ a poser.

      • 0 avatar
        omer333

        Fair point on all counts.

        My argument with “Best Driver’s Car” is that for every Fiesta ST (or something similar) there’s a bunch of Eye-talian or German machines that won’t ever be driven. Whether it’s on a back-road or to work or the grocery store, they become a bauble or an investment and they are rarely used for the purpose of driving, except to a Cars and Coffee or Monterey Car Week type of event.

        And that’s the bummer. I’m of the Jay Leno school: drive the damn thing.

  • avatar
    LeMansteve

    I don’t understand the part about the improperly bled intercooler. They say an improper bleeding would cause a loss of power. Then they say the technician plugged in the pump, presumably to run the pump and bleed the system. Wouldn’t the technician have caught the poor pump connection when he tried to bleed the system? Or was it working during the bleeding process, but then lost connection after the car was delivered?

    I would assume nearly every other car in the test went through a similar pre-test check. However, I imagine it was pretty hectic trying to repair the Corvette to new condition on top of performing any normal pre-test maintenance. The more work, the easier it is to miss a couple items on the long checklist.

    • 0 avatar
      WhiskeyRiver

      When the Corvette arrived along with a cadre of technical people to replace the brakes and bleed the intercooler and such…

      Well, this isn’t a car for the common man, is it?

      Thanks for the article Mark. This car is now crossed off my desire list and added to my hell no list.

    • 0 avatar
      greaseyknight

      The key here is intermittent. In a car that is being driven hard, bouncing around a track it’s very possible, almost expected that a connector would loose connection. The computer would sense this and go into limp mode to protect the car.

      • 0 avatar

        In the buff book tests I’ve read only once has a ZO6 completed the test with out a mechanical failure or issue. I don’t really read alot of these tests as tracking a car isn’t my thing but I have read 4 of them and in 3 the car failed. That’s not a good sign for a car that is gone over with a fine tooth comb before being tested and it still blows apart on the track or in the case just won’t run right.

        Fun fact on this test it was still faster around the track in limp home mode then the miata.

      • 0 avatar
        LeMansteve

        I can definitely understand how a partially-secured connector would come loose, but the expectation should be that the connector is secured the first time.

        Electrical connectors under the hood are usually secured by locking tabs that basically require manual intervention to remove.

        • 0 avatar
          Scoutdude

          Being a GM car and under hood location the connector is almost certainly a Metripack unit. They do have CPA but it is a ramp that the locking tab rides up and over to lock. The problem is if you do not verify that they seal is properly located and lubricated before you attempt the connection. If the seal is not right you can have serious trouble getting the connector to the lock position. It will often look fully seated when you look at the body but if the tab hasn’t broke over the ramp the ramp will tend to push the connector back out over time.

          Now for the old Weatherpack series of connectors they had double CPA for mission critical connections. Once the primary CPA is engaged there is a second separate CPA that inserts through the tab and ramp which will only insert when the primary CPA is fully engaged. So if you can’t insert the secondary CPA you know the primary isn’t fully latched.

    • 0 avatar
      VolandoBajo

      My understanding was that the failure of the secondary latch caused the pump to fail intermittently during bleeding, leading to some air still there, but not detected, since the pump did signal that it was connected and operating.

  • avatar
    kosmo

    Seems like a reasonable explanation. But come on Tadge, “Damn it, we got an air bubble in the intercooler” would have sufficed!

    Retro-grouch here, I guess, but this IS another example of my opinion that it’s still Naturally Aspirated for the Win!

    • 0 avatar
      VolandoBajo

      If all that was posted was that there was an air bubble, questions would have arisen as to how that happened, and what has been done (if anything) to see that that same failure mode isn’t repeated. Which is what Tadge went to lengths to explain.

      It is up to you to decide if you are buying the explanation but it sounds plausible to me.

  • avatar
    SCE to AUX

    Ineptitude by a team of people who should have known better, on a car that sounds too delicate to own.

    What strikes me is how wrapped up they get over the awards bestowed by auto rags. Do these awards/tests have any effect on car sales? I know they help sell magazines.

    Personally, I prefer the more honest reviews found here – rentals, Alex Dykes, and those provided by the editors and periodic contributors. And the calm, steady reviews offered by Michael Karesh over at TrueDelta are always refreshing.

    • 0 avatar
      srh

      When the C7 came out, I was considering it for my next track-toy. The last years worth of stories about ZO6 engine failuresm not to mention this one, have effectively removed it from that list.

      I completely agree with your first statement. Sending a car to Motor Trend that was crashed and then prep’ed by your “B” team? Even if the result is not indicative of the cars capabilities, the judgement that went into that decision indicates something broken elsewhere.

      The C7 is a great lesson in not getting your hopes up, and waiting a year before buying. I’ve considered pre-ordering a GT350 and/or a Focus RS (nearly did the latter earlier this week). But far better to wait and see what gremlins reveal themselves in actual usage.

  • avatar
    hotdog453

    I owned a 2008 Z06 until shortly before the C7 launch (great car, just didn’t fit my lifestyle/snow/lack of garage space/storing costs etc etc). Corvette owners don’t drive their cars.

    Truly, they don’t. At least the new Corvette owners. New C6 Grand Sport? I’m going to take it to Cars and Coffee and talk about the 0-60 times. Go to an autocross? Well, no, why would I do that? Do a spirited drive? I’m retired, I sit at home a lot.

    People do not drive Corvettes. The owners, by and large, are exactly as you imagine: Old, do not drive fast, and want an automatic. Hence the new Z06, now with automatic! Cause we want to sell the damn thing, that’s why.

    Great, fantastic cars (minus the whole overheating cluster that is the new ones), but the owners totally ruined it for me.

    You see more and more C5s out there, since they’re getting cheap, and young people can buy them. The C6s are dropping in price too, and once they hit a certain point, younger people will start picking them up, and promptly crash them into a tree and die.

    The Circle of Life (TM)

    • 0 avatar
      28-Cars-Later

      Don’t the C5s have some kind of brake sensor that goes and the replacement part is four figures?

    • 0 avatar
      IHateCars

      I think that you nailed it, hotdog. It seems that each new auto ‘Vette is issued with an oversized, loud print Tommy Bahama shirt for it’s new (old) owner to wear at show & shine events.

    • 0 avatar
      hubcap

      People definitely have different experiences. I know the type of owners you’re talking about but they exist (in spirit–not necessarily body–if you know what I mean ) with many marques.

      For some reason, it’s a “thing’ to buy an expensive performance car and then not use it as the good Lord intended. Take a look at Ferrari, Porsche, Lambo etc. forums.

      I’ve seen numerous threads by excited owners who state they’ll only drive the car 2000 miles in a year. I’ve also seen threads where an owner would mention taking a car on a multi state trip and be met with derision–‘the extra miles bring down the value dontchaknow’.

      I see plenty of Corvettes at HPDEs. Did you go to any when you had your Z06 and if you did what types of cars did you see?

    • 0 avatar
      Chan

      I don’t understand how one of the world’s most mass-produced sports cars (Corvette) could ever appreciate (barring rare or historically significant, but your average C5 and C6 is neither of those).

      That’s sort of like buying an MX-5 or even a Boxster S and waiting for its values to rise. Not gonna happen.

    • 0 avatar
      yakapo

      Funny you mention the tree. I friend of mine wrecked his c5 zo6 into a tree. He had all the driving nannies off. =D. I think he was in his 20’s back then.

  • avatar
    SKEETER88

    I will be a blackhawk farms raceway tomorrow with my dad and his 2015 z51 stingray for corvette track day. There will be a lot of vettes there and i know a few z06’s will be also, so ill see if any have problems.

  • avatar
    SKEETER88

    @duffman13
    I im a tech for Acura and the rsx-s was the worst manual they ever made, The car was great and reliable but i rebuilt a bunch of those 6 speeds and they even have upgraded 2-3 syncros to help the notchyness and grinding into 3rd at high rpms.

  • avatar
    Boxerman

    I get to the track about 10-15 times per summer, all weather and tire budget dependant.

    Of street based cars, i see a lot of Loti Vettes and Porche. the BMWs are mostly modded.

    Of the two 2015 Z06s I saw this summer both had consistent overheat issues after 4 laps and one had suffered a blown engine before 500 miles replaced by GM. They seem to have great suspension compared to c5 and c6
    and are really fast but cant maintain full pace on hot day after 4 or so laps. A lightening lap means very little to someone who tracks, its consistent laptime that counts.

    That all being said, if you wnata really really fast street car for the track a lightly modded c6 zo6 is unbeatable. Most to run track have upgrade brake lines and suspension. Pads are a big wear item on vettes.

    If younwat to runs consistently on track and not break the bank, a lotus is hard to beat, faster though the corners than the others, and definitively slower ont he straights unless heavily modded. A lotus is also real easy on consumables, pads are going to last 20 days, tires and oil changes are all it needs year to year, and you can easily smoke a cayman.

    Would be curious to know how the new techno Gt3 holds up, but have not see any show up yet.

    Vettes can make great track cars and are pretty numerous where I run.

    • 0 avatar
      yakapo

      Hmm… I would have guessed mx-5’s or s2000’s would be pretty common. Those would be my first choice. I guess I’m more comfortable working on those cars. Not as much risk if you damage then. Also, I’m guessing there would be less recurring costs for brakes, tires, etc.

  • avatar
    -Nate

    Wow ;

    A lot of info here .

    I guess this fat old man will never get a Corvette .

    -Nate

    • 0 avatar
      highdesertcat

      Not just you, Nate.

      I’m not fat but I am old and I don’t bend well any more so there’s no way to get my body into some low-slung car.

      Hell, if somehow I managed to shoehorn myself into a Corvette……., I could not get out of it.

      • 0 avatar
        -Nate

        Never give up trying HDC ! .

        I’m sure I make quite a sight getting out of many vehicles but I still love to drive .

        We had a ball in Snake Pit’s ’68 Corvette back in the early 1970’s , it was simple and I guess crude but it was dirt cheap to run being mostly regular Chevy parts , faster than all but the exotics at the time too .
        BTW : ‘ fat ‘ is a relative thing , I’m 6’ and 240 # , I think this is obese but not many Women seem to agree .

        -Nate

        • 0 avatar
          VolandoBajo

          Hey Nate,

          I’m 5’10” and used to weigh in the 250’s, and was stuck with my wife’s Corolla, which made me feel like the tall clown getting out of the circus car. My Panther is much more comfortable.

          But FWIW, I knocked off most carbs, on the advice of a nutritionist friend, who also told me I didn’t have to sweat the fats (where most of the flavor comes from) as long as I took a brisk 20 to 30 minute walk about five times a week. I did so, in part because I developed sleep apnea in my early 50’s, and losing weight was an alternative (which worked for me) to the CPAP.

          Took me more than a couple of years, at two to four pounds a month, but now I range between 165 and 175 year round, and feel a lot better. Plus it is easier to get out of my wife’s dinky car, though the Panther is much more comfort and fun. My wife still loved me at 250 and told me nice things, but later admitted she likes the new aerodynamic version of me better.

          Not trying to tell you what to do, but I consider you one of my better online friends, and just wanted to let you know that if you want to bag some of that weight without suffering in the gym or at the table, the method that was recommended to me was slow, but sure.

          Now I feel better than I did a decade ago. YMMV and of course, IANA doctor, but it worked for me.

          • 0 avatar
            -Nate

            Gracias Volando ! Me agradesco mucho .

            (pardon my atrocious spelling) .

            I try to stay active , mostly by working on old vehicles but I also like to walk a goodly bit .

            A decade or two ago I stopped eating beef & beef products for five years or so and wow ~ I tightened up a lot .

            Drove my psycho-bitch ex G.F. crazy for some reason .

            Mostly it’s the soda now ~ I get the jones for cola and drink way too much of it .

            Anyway , my Metropolitan Nash is tiny but I fit in it just fine once I’m actually in it =8-) .

            I bet the Met has more room inside than an old Corvette does .

            -Nate

          • 0 avatar
            VolandoBajo

            Hola Nate. Had to reply below my post instead of yours, that damn thing about not having a reply button for every post.

            I sure hope the new forum system Mark was promising hasn’t already arrived and we missed it.

            No problema con su español. My best friend learned his from friends and can speak it well, but also has spelling problems.

            I got a lot of mine from hard study…if you want to get a lot better quickly, and already have most of the basic vocab and grammar, check out Yates’ Correct Your Spanish Blunders. A hundred plus pages of concise info to tune up your Spanish.

            Only mistake you made was that it is supposed to be agredezco, with a z. Not bad.

            I too drink more than my share of Cokes, but on the other hand, I stopped trying to pickle myself some time ago, so it doesn’t seem to do much harm.

            Metropolitans…you old enough to remember the old pop song about the guy in the Metropolitan that the other guy can’t pull away from. In the end, the Metropolitan pulls along side and asks the singer “Hey buddy, how do you get this thing out of 2nd gear?”

            I did the vegetarian thing for about five years in my youth, for a variety of reasons. Eventually my then Buddhist viewpoint evolved to a more Zen like, circle of life viewpoint, and I decided that while it might not be a dog eat dog world, it could certainly be a man eat cow world.

            I found that the lack of meat based protein, even though I got all the essential amino acids with rice and pinto beans (an old college dorm money saving trick), that it made me too passive and indifferent.

            I have had my share of psycho ex-GF’s, seemed to attract them like a magnet at one point in my life.

            Finally fell head over heels for the most hardcore case I had ever encountered, and fortunately for me, the feeling was mutual. All that was left then was ten or so years of negotiating the peace.

            As to obsessing about dietary correctness, an Aikido master, Tohei-sensei, who stressed it as a way of life more than as a martial art, once wrote that especially in the developed world, most people did more harm to themselves worrying about what they ate, than they did eating whatever they ate. Not always true, but I have found that to be true more often than not.

            I am one of those incessant nightowls like Jack, but I am starting to be in need of some rest.

            Always good to communicate with you Nate.

            If you ever wind up on the East Coast, anywhere between about DC and NYC, and especially around Philly, you are always welcome.

            You, Jack and a few other friends I have made here on TTAC are some of the finest people I have gotten to know in my entire life.

            Which is why I read and write so much here…beats looking for a senior center with a bunch of checkerboards and dominoes.

            And anyway, I am too physiologically young for that kind of lifestyle. I just wish my chrono age hadn’t kept on climbing, though I admit it beats the alternative, especially if you have loved ones who are the real deal, as my wife and son are.

            Sounds like you were blessed with a good son, too, from some of the things you have said over time.

            All the best to you and yours, Nate…

            Hasta luego.

            And tell those kids “¡Os quitáis de mi cespéd!”, which is Spanish for “you guys get off my lawn!”

            Once was walking down the block near a large mercado in Mexico City with a previous wife, when a boy about ten and a girl about eight started following us. The boy started saying ever swear word and vile phrase he had managed to learn, trying to impress the young girl with his bravery. He didn’t know that I spoke a lot of Spanish even back then.

            When he called me an hijo de puta, I finally turned around and said to him in Spanish that he would be a dead hijo de puta if he said one more thing about either of us.

            They took off like the crew in the old Our Gang cartoons when they saw a ghost.

            And I suspect they acted more politely towards the next gringo tourist.

            Just for S&G, what is the most powerful motor you could stuff into a Metropolitan while still retaining stock appearance. That might make for a fun sleeper project. Never seen that done before.

            Closest thing was an LBC in an older Jeep Wrangler, though it was hardly a surprise, given the amount of iron ahead of the windshield.

            As Tom Cruise said in Top Gun, I feel the need, the need for speed.

            If nothing else, it reminds me that I am still full of a lot of life, even after all these years and all my adventures and misadventures.

            Catch you down the line on here.

          • 0 avatar
            -Nate

            Volando ;

            Stuffing a big engine in a Metropolitan front weights it so badly the car becomes undriveable apart from slowly .

            Many use Pinto , Chevette or Toyota engines , one fellow I know has a 4L Chevy V-6 but can’t keep up with my in the corners so what’s the point ? .

            I still have the original 1500 CC bottom end and a seriously modified MGA 1622 cylinder hear so it breathes better plus a Weber 34ICH carby with hand massged jets ~ it goes pretty well , I’m told it’s fun to watch me going up and down the canyons on three wheels .

            The nice fellow who wrote and sang ” Beep Beep ” just recently passed away .

            I don’t want to study Spanish , I’ve just learned it in life , I can talk motors pretty well but get lost trying to read it .

            Hopefully I’ll make it to Philly one of these dayze .

            -Nate

  • avatar
    -Nate

    BTW : The comment about old guys and their ‘Vettes is spot on ~ for some reason the ones shaped like bowling balls with legs , always seem to wear blue jump suits with ‘Vette crossed flags on the chest .

    -Nate

  • avatar
    wstansfi

    Here’s the thing – there was a GM engineer on site, and they couldn’t sort out the problem the whole week. If they can’t sort out the engine tech issues for MT, over the course of a week, for an event like this, it makes me wonder what the ownership experience would be like for the average person buying the car. Truly, you get what you pay for… The so-called bargain supercar not much of a bargain if engine going to “limp mode” and other issues yet to be determined…

  • avatar
    VenomV12

    Here’s what it boils down to, GM really doesn’t care. Within my neighborhood and in a five mile radius there are at least 5 new Z06s, at least two of them with Z07 packages and whenever the dealerships in town get new Z06s they go fast. GM is selling them, selling them for full freight and the Z06 tested in the race could have blown up in a ball of fire, killed 10 people and it probably would not make a dent in their sales. They are probably trying to figure out how to add a Z08 package or something else so they can charge even more money, they just don’t care. I am blown away by how well they are doing, around here I see more new Z06s on the road than Stingrays, ditto for when I am down in Texas and Oklahoma also.

    I remember back in the 90s Car and Driver or one of the other mags did a side by side review of a Lamborghini and a Ferrari and by the end of the test both were barely running and had a long list of stuff broken on them and it didn’t matter, people still buy them and buy them all. It’s not a Malibu or a Camry, no one cares that buy them cares. Like I said in the previous post, the guy down the road from me, his C6 Z06 burned his house and his cars down and he still just went out and bought a C7 Z06 with the Z07 package, if a car burning your house down doesn’t deter you from getting another one, nothing will.


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