By on April 7, 2015

2015 Chevrolet Spark EV

Across the country, thousands of high school students will be completing their sophomore year of high school. Many of them are about to turn 16. Many of them want a car. Many of them have activities like after-school sports, community service, SAT test prep, chess club, and possibly even a job. Many of them have parents who have become tired of driving their kids everywhere and want to spend some time towards their own pursuits. Many of those parents are worried about the costs and responsibility of their kids having a car. Many of those parents are afraid at the places their children could go without their knowledge with a car.

Well, parents of America, I have a solution: Lease an electric vehicle for your teenage son or daughter. Most parents will either hand their kids down a car or buy them something brand-new. Usually, the new car is a Honda Civic, Toyota Corolla, Hyundai Elantra, anything from Scion, and so on. Something safe, fuel-efficient, reasonably priced and something to take to college. A hand-me-down vehicle could be an old truck, old minivan, a 10+ year old car which gets very good fuel mileage, or maybe an old Volvo. But you have to pay for gas, insurance, maintenance (which gets seriously expensive on Volvos), as well as car payments if you buy a new car.

By the way, I stress the leasing part since some teenagers tend to move far away from their parents for college. Some of these campuses might not be car-friendly either, especially for undergraduate students. In cases like those, buying an electric vehicle probably won’t be the best option, since you might not want an extra car in the driveway that nobody is using.

Now, many of you might think it’s a bad idea to for a teenager to have a new electric car. It might be easy for them to sneak out of the house, for instance. Or it could be easy for them to sneak back into the house when it’s past curfew. It might be too expensive because you’re getting them a new car. You might believe on principle that a teenager shouldn’t have access to a new car. You might receive some criticism from your friends, neighbors, and coworkers for getting a teenager a new car. You also believe that range anxiety might not be the best thing for a teenager to handle.

However I, a 24-year-old car enthusiast whose first car was a MkV Volkswagen Jetta 2.0T (in hindsight, it shouldn’t have been), think an electric vehicle is an excellent starter car for a teenager. In that vein, I’ve come up with three reasons about why getting a teenager an electric car is a viable option.

  1. There’s actually a radius to where they can travel.

Most electric cars on the market have a range of 80 to 100 miles on a full charge. That isn’t very far, especially when traveling round-trip to the city from the suburbs. Now, as a parent, there might be range anxiety and you would hate your child to run out of battery in the middle of a busy road. But considering most electric vehicles have a range of at least 70 miles on a full charge, that’s more than enough range for a teenager’s typical day. Other than the usual drive to school and back, there’s still range for going to the mall, traveling to a friend’s house for a project, going to where they do community service, or drive to an after-school job.

For most parents, it minimizes the chances that their children will take unexpected “detours,” unless that particular destination has a quick charging station present. Some parents will complain that the “silence” of an electric vehicle will permit the kids to sneak out of the house, but unless their destination is within 15 miles round-trip, they may have some trouble getting to that full charge for the following morning. That range will also teach them responsibility when it comes to planning trips, since how they travel depends on whether they’ve charged it or not. At most, school will be 25 miles away (I actually know people who travel that far to get to high school), so the car has to be charged every night. (And in some states, electric vehicles get to travel in the HOV lane, so no more driving the school carpool!) It’ll be a bad day if he or she forgot to plug in the car. In addition, when going to activities that fall outside the daily routine, they’ll have to plan their trips and check whether there are places to charge nearby.

  1. The costs of ownership are reasonable.

Thankfully, there won’t be an extra car to add to the gasoline costs for the month. If the electric car is replacing a vehicle that could barely achieve 20 miles per gallon, leasing an electric vehicle could be more cost effective than handing down an old pickup. For example, the FIAT 500e, though available in California and Oregon only, has an advertised lease rate of $139 a month for 36 months with $1,999 down including the first lease payment and a 36,000 mile limit. Even a base model Nissan Leaf, which is more widely available, has a lease rate of $199 a month for 36 months with $2,399 due at signing including the first lease payment with a 36,000 mile limit. Without including taxes, insurance, maintenance and charging cost, that’s around $10,000 for three years of ownership of a car with a warranty and one that you can give back (with a $395 disposition fee).

Also, money is saved from all that gas you or your high school student doesn’t have to buy. Going on fueleconomy.gov, for most electric vehicles it costs under $1 to travel 25 miles. While the average 2015 vehicles gets 24 miles per gallon, on average, gas varies between $2 and $3.50, the $3+ mark being achieved thanks to California and Hawaii. The website estimates that most EV operators will spend between $500 and $600 on “fuel cost” for 15,000 miles per year.

Additionally, insurance costs tend to be less for an electric vehicle compared to a similarly priced gas vehicle. One study showed that on average driver’s saved $200 per year on insurance when they switched to electric. Considering how much a family’s car insurance shoots up when a teenage driver is added, the reduction in annual insurance premiums will be welcomed. Overall, if it comes to less than $5,000 a year to have your teenager driving, getting an electric vehicle might be a good car.

  1. Electric vehicles are safe.

No, I’m not thinking of the Tesla Model S and its exceptional crash test rating when I wrote the above. Electric vehicles like the Spark EV and Focus Electric are Top Safety Picks by the Insurance Institute of Highway Safety. The Leaf and 500e, which will undoubtedly be considered, don’t achieve that distinction due to their “Poor” rating in the small overlap front crash test. (But from 2013-2014 the Leaf was a Top Safety Pick before inclusion of the front overlap crash test.) However, electric vehicles are just as safe as normal new vehicles that are popular with teenagers such as the Toyota Corolla, Hyundai Accent, Chevrolet Sonic, Audi A4, and the Scion xD or xB.

Compare that to a 10+ year-old hand-me-down Accord, Maxima, or Jeep, which probably don’t come close to 2015 safety standards. Moreover, when the speed question comes up, most electric vehicles have a difficult time staying above 80 miles per hour, and even then, staying at those speeds quickly depletes the battery. As a result, there’s an incentive to stay at reasonable speeds. Leasing an electric vehicle means you won’t take a big hit if the car is totaled, too. Most lease agreements should have gap insurance (and seriously, ensure you have the gap coverage when leasing the car) for making up the difference in value that the insurance company will pay out.

So there you have it. The answers to most of your concerns of giving a car to your teenager. They’ll probably stay within 50 miles of the house or face being stranded. After all, most teenagers don’t have to drive over 100 miles a day over 90% of the time. They’ll learn responsibility in planning their trips. It could be the most cost effective solution at a cost of under $5,000 a year. And most importantly for parents, they’ll be safe if they get into an accident. And while the only detriment is that they could sneak out of the house, you know they won’t get far. Sometimes range anxiety helps.

Satish Kondapavulur is a writer for Clunkerture, where about a fifth of the articles are about old cars and where his one-time LeMons racing dreams came to an end once he realized it was impossible to run a Ferrari Mondial. If his first car had been electric, he’s fairly certain he would’ve created an autocross course from the streets in his neighborhood.  

Get the latest TTAC e-Newsletter!

Recommended

137 Comments on “Here’s Why an Electric Car Could Be the Best First Car...”


  • avatar
    sportyaccordy

    This is actually pretty sound reasoning. Good job.

    • 0 avatar
      Richard Chen

      An used Leaf can be had as low as $13K, with an shorter battery range than when new = shorter leash. And get it without the fast charge port, so the kids don’t get any bright ideas about extending the range.

      There’s also a lease special on the outgoing SmartEV, 2 and 3 year terms, for about $200/month. That way, the kids won’t have multiple passengers to distract them.

      • 0 avatar
        heavy handle

        re: “shorter range = shorter leash”

        That’s exactly what I thought when reading the article. If you are unwilling to let your kids go out, then this may be a way to follow that path.

        Then again, I bought my own car when I was 17, and I drove it cross-country twice (east-west once, north-south once). An electric car with a limited range would have been no more useful than a bicycle to me.

      • 0 avatar
        mcs

        Short leash??? Uh, you do realize they have quick DC chargers that can extend the range.

    • 0 avatar
      Nick 2012

      There was a California ‘group buy’ of Fiat 500e’s that cost $83/month after tax incentives. I’d pick one up for that price just to commute in.

      http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1097299_group-buy-of-fiat-500e-electric-cars-ignites-feeding-frenzy-100-plus-bought

  • avatar
    Car Ramrod

    I hadn’t thought about this, but it makes some sense. My oldest is 11 now, and we recently began to talk about what she might drive when she turns 16. Considering my first car had already been built when I was her age, it makes some sense to begin this conversation informally (and begin to define expectations).

    To play devil’s advocate though, you mention 3-year leases. Most teens turn 16 toward the end of their Sophomore year. If they do go to a car-friendly campus that’s more than an hour away, traveling back and forth for the holidays will be a headache. If they can’t have the car at college, the last year of the lease is a waste of money.

    • 0 avatar

      Unless an adult uses said leased electric vehicle for their own commute for the final year, of course. Also, I don’t know if electric cars are offered with two year leases or if there exists any deposit/payment/termination differential in total cost vs three year ones.

    • 0 avatar
      bball40dtw

      Ford does two year leases on the Focus EV. I think the three year leases have better payments though (at least in the case of the Focus EV).

      • 0 avatar
        Car Ramrod

        I’ve never leased, but I’ve never seen a 2-year lease priced very reasonably. Perhaps these are the perfect vehicles for people with children 2 years apart.

        • 0 avatar
          bball40dtw

          It might be a Detroit area thing, but Ford dealers are usually advertising 2-year leases. In many cases, Focus, Fusion, and Escape for example, they are the best deal. The Focus SE, Fusion SE, and Escape SE can be leased for two years for under $225/month, taxes included, for $0 down (gotta pay start ups though).

  • avatar
    Driver8

    Being slightly sarcastic, the answer is NA Miata.
    Stick means much harder to text/talk.
    2 seater means only one other distracting passenger (more kids in car, more accidents).
    Teaches basic wrenching skills but still reliable.
    Teaches defensive driving skills.
    Decent MPG.
    Low HP.

    • 0 avatar
      Drzhivago138

      I can’t speak for all states, but I know in MN the number of seats is irrelevant–for the first year of driving, you’re only allowed one passenger in the vehicle (excepting family).

      Not that that stopped me–the main limiting factors for my lack of frequent high-occupancy trips were 1. 14 MPG and 2. No-one over 5’6″ wants to sit in a SuperCab for more than 20 minutes.

    • 0 avatar
      cackalacka

      Sarcasm notwithstanding, but pops sold the ’69 MG Midget the week I turned 16. Most parents are uncomfortable with the prospect of a small RWD fun car that can fit in the back of a F150 being piloted by a developing adolescent brain.

      Moment of silence for my dad’s british money-pit.

  • avatar

    Well, at least they’ll impregnate/be impregnated by someone more local.

  • avatar
    Carilloskis

    I think it really comes down to overall costs for the parents and what’s in their budget. In my case I drove the families 99suburban 4×4 1500 to school. My mom had just got herself a brand new 04 Jetta tdi manual to do all her running around in and no longer wanted to do that in the suburban on a regular basis. But with 6 kids who where all in scouts and skiing we needed 8 seat belts and 4wd. I was responsible for taking my brothers and sisters to school. So I got the vehicle with the 5.7l v8. Then in Summer of 08 when I was going into my junior year of colledge I bougt a suburban for my self, as I was going to school in Colorado and 2 of my siblings decided they wanted to go there as well. I figured I needed 4×4 room for ski gear and we could each bring a friend. An ev would not have worked for either of my first cars as they lack 6 seat belts except of the model s. Don’t have 4×4. And you cannot get to colorado ski areas on one charge in the winter.

    • 0 avatar
      bball40dtw

      Suburbans aren’t as cheap and plentiful as they once were. I drove a Dodge Ram 4×4 with the 5.9L during my junior year of high school. That doesn’t mean my daughter is going to drive a half ton truck to school when she is 17. Even if I had a 4 or 5 year old truck, I’d sell it and buy something else. A 2011 F150 or Silverado with low miles would fetch some decent cash right now.

  • avatar
    Sjalabais

    Not bad. But:

    “maintenance (which gets seriously expensive on Volvos)”

    Where have you heard this nonsense?

    I’d recommend to rewatch the Top Gear youngsters challenge for reeducation.

    • 0 avatar
      heavy handle

      He’s 24, just repeating what he’s heard. People say that about all European cars, regardless of facts.

      In my experience, maintenance costs are mostly influenced by the previous owner’s diligence, by how much leg work you are willing to do, and by how long you want to keep the car. Most people who claim that their cars “cost them nothing to maintain” are driving clapped-out death traps which they constantly pay big bucks to replace with other rolling cesspools.

      • 0 avatar

        The newer Volvos don’t seem like they’d be much trouble (although that turbocharged/supercharged/electric business gives me pause)…but late-nineties, early-aughts Volvos are notorious for being difficult, no matter how they’re maintained. And that’s not even counting the variants with tremendous failure rates, like the early XC90 with the 2.9T/GM 4-speed combo.

        That has not, however, stopped me for pining after and trying on multiple occasions to purchase a V70 R or S60 R.

        • 0 avatar
          Sigivald

          Informal information suggests, sadly, that the Rs are especially awkward to maintain.

          (Imagine that; the uncommon performance variant is more trouble-prone and expensive to keep up!)

        • 0 avatar
          Sjalabais

          It is true that there are some engine and trans combos that are more expensive than others. But, seriously, if you remember what we talk about here: What kind of parents give a XC90 or what used to be the most powerful wagon in Europe to their kids?

          Bread and butter Volvos are just fine, above average reliable cars. If you go a couple decades back, you enter legendary territory.

          I’ve owned a couple of 30 and 40 year old Volvos that generated very low maintenance cost – simple, cheap parts that could be put into place by every man aged 50 or more. The one Volvo I’ve had a bit of trouble with, a 1993 240, was a neglected car, so I ended up with dammed up maintenance in my lap. 740/940 Volvos will shield you from the nuclear apocalypse if you ask them to.

    • 0 avatar

      I have a bunch of friends with XC90s, V70s, and S60s from the early 2000s who got them as hand-me-downs in high school. And I have seen firsthand how expensive they are to fix.

      • 0 avatar
        CoreyDL

        The XC90 is definitely a nickel-quarter you to death vehicle, after about year four or five. As is generally true with Volvo products made after 2004.

        I’m very drawn to the XC60 currently. It’s very sharp in white.

  • avatar
    Pch101

    You make fair points, but we would be better off if teens didn’t drive.

    Teens are involved in disproportionate numbers of fatal crashes, not just due to inexperience but also because they have poor judgment. A driving age of 18 (with some case-by-case exceptions), coupled with graduated licensing, would reduce the fatality rate.

    • 0 avatar
      Toad

      We would all be better off if teenagers didn’t drive, screw, or talk, but chances are they will continue do all of the above and more. Same as it ever was.

    • 0 avatar
      Sigivald

      The fatality rate is already so low that it’s a chimera to worry about reducing it much further.

      (And if you want to restrict teens from things because they’re poor at judging, how about “voting”?

      If you’re not willing to do that, don’t keep them from being able to drive, either.)

      • 0 avatar
        Pch101

        “And if you want to restrict teens from things because they’re poor at judging, how about ‘voting’?”

        In the US, the voting age is 18, while the typical age for driver licenses is 16. So yes, I would raise the driving age so that it matches the voting age.

        “The fatality rate is already so low…”

        Not among teens it isn’t.

        • 0 avatar
          eamiller

          Pch101,
          I think you’re discounting the inexperience part of the equation too much.

          Also, all 50 states already have GDL so that’s not really an issue any more.

          If you dig into the statistics, only 1195 drivers aged 16-19 were *involved in* (not caused!) fatal accidents in 2013 (or 15 per 100,000 of the 16-19 age population, or 0.015% of that population). It may be the most likely cause of death among teens, but that’s not really saying much since it isn’t like cancer or heart attacks are an issue for teenagers. The raw numbers just aren’t very compelling (though there’s a ton of emotion involved in the argument).

          If you look at the fatality breakdown within that age group, the number of deaths increases with age regardless of seating position within the vehicle, though 56% are drivers (the most dangerous place in a vehicle during a crash). So there are fewer 16 year olds dying in crashes (in 2013) than 19 year olds by a ratio of about 2:1.

          Given that we are only losing 0.015% of teenagers in one of the riskiest things they may be doing in their young lives, I think we’ve done about 98% of what is possible. The rate will likely continue to fall as we make safer cars.

          Additional restrictions will likely not be worth the reward, especially considering that a car is a necessity for a huge swath of the US.

          Further reading:
          http://www.iihs.org/iihs/topics/t/teenagers/fatalityfacts/teenagers

          • 0 avatar
            Pch101

            Research on the subject shows that young inexperienced drivers are worse than older inexperienced drivers. The lack of maturity and greater risk taking that comes with youth is a large part of the problem; delayed licensing would help.

            In the US, drivers aged 20 and younger are disproportionately involved in fatal crashes. The data about this is clear.

            Raising the driving age to 18, followed by graduated licensing that uses the identifiers used in other countries such as the “L” placards in the UK would save lives.

          • 0 avatar
            eamiller

            As a function of population, 20-34 year olds are involved in more fatal accidents per 100,000 than 16-19 year olds (18.5 vs. 15.1 in 2013).

            Quoting IIHS (see above link)

            “The rate of deaths per 100,000 people in 2013 peaked at ages 20-24 for male drivers (13.6) and at age 18 for male passengers (6.0). Death rates peaked at age 19 for female drivers (5.2) and at age 18 for female passengers (4.4).”

            Since the US isn’t Europe, raising the driving age is far less practical and therefore probably not worth doing, considering the likelihood of dying in a fatal accident is 0.015% for a 16-19 year old. The reward far outweighs the risk in this case.

            Since cars are getting safer, the fatality rate will continue to fall naturally, as it has since basically every year since 2002 (in raw numbers) and since 1994 in terms of fatalities per 100,000.

            Where’s the smoking gun here?

          • 0 avatar
            Pch101

            You need to read your own link:

            “In the United States, the fatal crash rate per mile driven for 16-19 year-olds is nearly 3 times the rate for drivers ages 20 and over.”

          • 0 avatar
            eamiller

            So is that because teenagers aged 16-19 drive far fewer miles? As a population, their fatality rate is very low. The numbers can be interpreted in multiple ways.

            0.015% fatality rate. That’s a hilariously low number for such a risky activity that is undertaken multiple times a day.

            Very few activities are risk free. In my opinion, the statistics show we are doing a pretty good job at controlling the risk when it comes to teenage drivers. I think we’ve reached the point of diminishing returns, from a practical point of view.

          • 0 avatar
            Pch101

            The standard benchmark for making safety assessments is fatalities per mile/km traveled.

            Teens die at about triple the normal rate, which strongly suggests that they suck at driving. I’ve explained why that is, and it isn’t just inexperience.

  • avatar
    ajla

    In high school I had a Quad4 Grand Am and my sister had a ’67 Eldorado.

    I’m not sure either of these were optimal.

  • avatar

    High school wasn’t that long ago (at all) for me. Most of my mates received beaters or older cars when they turned 16, but were then given new or nearly-new cars when they graduated…everything from a Chevy Cruze LS to a Ford F-150 Limited to a Lexus IS 350 (totaled in a street race a week later) to even (I kid you not) a Range Rover Sport Supercharged. I was handed down the family Accord (which pre-dated me) and my parents were firmly in the school of thought that if I wanted a new or newer car, I could buy it myself. So I did.

    I do remember one kid in my class driving a Wheego Whip, which is an electric city vehicle that bears an uncanny resemblance to the Smart Fortwo.

  • avatar
    TW5

    Insurance costs on a electric vehicle lease will be prohibitive. Furthermore, teenagers will be too irresponsible to charge the vehicle before bed, and they’ll quickly realize they don’t have to do any chores if the car stays uncharged. Parents will still be driving their kid around, and paying $500/month for a lease and insurance.

    What teenagers need are jobs so they can make their own consumer decisions, but DC is resolute that none of them shall work. CBO predicts labor force participation of roughly 25% by 2025 for 16-19 demographic. Taxes and mandates keep rising on unskilled labor, regardless of the detrimental side effects.

    • 0 avatar
      bball40dtw

      “Furthermore, teenagers will be too irresponsible to charge the vehicle before bed, and they’ll quickly realize they don’t have to do any chores if the car stays uncharged.”

      I find it interesting that you know the work ethic and home life of all teenagers. I’m impressed.

    • 0 avatar
      ClutchCarGo

      I suspect that it’s been a long time since you were a teen. Nothing motivates teens more than than an opportunity for personal freedom. While there certainly will be a couple of missed charges, the attendant lost free will would quickly reinforce good charging discipline. No teen that I’ve ever known (or been) would rather be driven around by a parent than break free without parental supervision.

      • 0 avatar
        TW5

        If you think teens of this era don’t like being driven around, you’re only showing your own age. Look at the data. Age of first license is rising much faster than legal age to acquire a license. Teens are perfectly happy to be driven around. My youngest brother and my cousin, who are both youngish millennials, didn’t get their licenses until about 1 month before leaving for college. A woman I work with laments that she can’t even bribe her 17 year old daughter to get her license.

        Young Americans don’t leave the house because they have no reason to leave. They interact with one another online, and they have no jobs. You don’t have to be old to look at the data. The internet, sagging real wages, and lack of opportunity for unskilled workers has been reshaping America since the dot com bust, when labor force participation fell below 50% for 16-19.

        • 0 avatar
          ClutchCarGo

          You’re mixing up those teens who don’t want to drive with those that do. The point of the post was that an EV would be a good car choice for a teen driver. No one is going to buy any car for a teen that shows no interest in driving themselves around.

      • 0 avatar
        Syke

        I’ll predict there will be ONE missed charging session. The next morning, when there’s not enough power to get to and from school, said youth is made to take the big yellow school bus.

        He/she will never forget to plug the car in again. Taking the bus to school is as uncool as you can get.

    • 0 avatar
      harshciygar

      Actually, electric cars cost less to insure than conventional cars.

      http://gas2.org/2014/09/19/electric-cars-cheaper-insure/

      When I was a teenager, my mom made us take care of the family dog, all the way around. That’s a lot more responsibility than remembering to plug in a car at the end of the day.

      Right now (as in today) you can lease a Nissan LEAF for $199 a month. My sister-in-law pays about $120 a month for insurance on a Chevy Sonic, which would bring the monthly total to just over $300 a month, for a brand new car.

      Speaking of maintenance, what’s more expensive; an electric car running out of juice, or an idiot teenager ignoring the “low oil” light for weeks until the engine destroys itself?

      This is a great piece that makes a lot of great points. You just sound sour.

      • 0 avatar
        TW5

        Have you ever seen a teenager with a dead iPhone or iPad? You’re conferring upon yourself and modern day teens a social status and responsibility that you never actually had. I’m just honest about my past shortcomings and those of my own family and friends. I also pay attention to the young people around me.

        I’m not interested in treating the symptoms of society’s socioeconomic diseases. Lack of good electric cars is not the reason for the lack of teen drivers and workers so why would electric cars be proposed as a good fit for teens? We live in an era of technological totem, and the worship of technological objects is very strange to me.

      • 0 avatar
        Scoutdude

        Full coverage insurance for a new car with the main driver listed as someone under the age of 21 will be much higher than $120 per month. For my son who got his license at 18 insurance with the good student 20% discount for $656 for 6 mos for basic coverage, no comp or collision on an old Taurus. It went up a couple of dollars when he moved to an old Grand Marquis. When my Daughter got her license and we added her as an alternate driver on our old Mountaineer which still has comp and collision it added about $600 to the existing bill again with a good student discount. Getting her own car without comp and collision coverage put her right in the range with my son on her Crown Vic and her listed as the primary driver. Our insurance company won’t allow someone to be listed as an alternate driver if the number of licensed drivers is equal to or more than the number of insured vehicles. I’m sure that would be the same for most companies. So I could see the monthly insurance premium with the coverage required under the terms of the lease to be as much or more than the monthly lease payment.

        On the other hand an EV and its limited range would not be bad as a teenager’s first car for the type of driving that most of them will do, if you are wiling to spend that much or they have a job where they can afford to spend that much. Personally I’m in the “they can drive an old hand me down or cheap beater” camp.

        The Taurus my son initially drove was originally purchased as my wife’s daily driver, with the intention of it eventually being his. It was then passed down to me for a year before he took it over, since he wasn’t interested in getting his license. He got Bought the Grand Marquis that I got when he got the Taurus. That was because the Taurus was going to be due for tires, brakes and a battery very soon and it didn’t make sense to spend that kind of money on a car with that many miles that had body damage from a hit and run driver that we just took the cash from.

        For my Daughter she kind of wanted the Grand Marquis since she had mainly learned to drive in it. I wasn’t ready to give it up yet, so we went to the auction and picked up a P71 for dirt cheap. It was so cheap because while it was sitting waiting for the next auction they decided to use it as a parts car and took the entire wiper assembly and it was the first of the batch of P71s. I picked up an assembly at a wrecking yard for $40 along with the linkages to make the rear door handles and move the locks back to the civilian location and made her instal the wiper assembly. All told with a set of used snow tires, a new belt, tax, tittle, emissions, trip permit, auction premium and license it was just a tick over $1000.

        • 0 avatar
          highdesertcat

          “Full coverage insurance for a new car with the main driver listed as someone under the age of 21 will be much higher than $120 per month”

          In New Mexico the magical cut-off age is 25, and married, before you see an appreciable discount in main-driver premiums.

          But, if a person is not financed (no lienholder) and doesn’t choose full coverage, the minimum coverage required by the state costs significantly less than that, depending on their driving record.

          When I added my two under-age grand daughters to my minimum required state-mandated coverage on our 2008 Highlander and 2012 Grand Cherokee, it didn’t cost me anything extra.

          Ditto with the 2011 Elantra we bought for my grand daughter to commute to college with, but insured under my name and policy.

          If I bought full coverage on either of those vehicles, the premium rates for six-month coverage with teenagers on the policy would have watered my eyes and drained my wallet.

          New Mexico and USAA keep it simple: anyone the insured gives permission to is covered when driving their vehicles. No added costs.

          • 0 avatar
            Scoutdude

            With our policy anyone we give permission to drive is covered, if they don’t live in our household. Which of course means that I have to add my kids and since we have 4 cars and 4 drivers they must be listed as primary drivers on a vehicle.

  • avatar
    honda_lawn_art

    Eek. My observation is that most first cars get trashed. Whether its accidents, “modifications”, or misuse.

    I value the time honored tradition of saddling your kid with whatever jalopy can be had for $1-$2K. Consider these days that you could find cars that hold up very well in a crash for that kind of money, (Chevy Malibu?).

    A new electric car is just too expensive for a teen.

  • avatar
    eggsalad

    As an alternative to leasing, the local FIAT dealer has on offer a 2012 Mitsubishi i for $12k. I’m sure there are others out there.

    • 0 avatar
      28-Cars-Later

      In my view, that deal might as well be radioactive to boot.

      • 0 avatar
        bball40dtw

        I’ll buy the i-MiEV if it also heats and cools my house like Mitsubishi’s fabulous HVAC systems. A good HVAC system ain’t cheap.

        • 0 avatar
          28-Cars-Later

          A mainstream HVAC systems != a non-mainstream automobile. How much are parts and service, how readily available will they be? How many of these things were even sold and how many will be in junkyards years later when you need [larger] parts such as body panels or interior bits? Who is going to buy it when you tire of it?

          • 0 avatar
            bball40dtw

            Well, it’s not going to heat and cool my house so there’s that. I would never buy one, but if I did, the next owner would be whatever body of water I push it into from a cliff. I see myslef ending up like Homer when he tries to jump out of a car rolling off a cliff. I’d roll right back in and my plan would be foiled.

    • 0 avatar
      bball40dtw

      Then all of my neighbors will think that I have $hitty credit. Plus, I don’t hate my daughter enough to make her drive an i-MiEV.

      • 0 avatar
        turf3

        Are you trying to say that what your neighbors may think about your ability to secure credit has a bearing on what kind of vehicle you buy?

        Wow, I never thought I would hear someone just come right out and admit that.

        (By the way, your neighbors think of you only rarely. You are at best an extra in the drama of their lives, standing off in the wings holding a spear. At best.)

        • 0 avatar
          bball40dtw

          I was being facetious. I do not care what my neighbors think of my car. Based on the fact that my wife and I drive an MkT and C-Max, they probably don’t even know the name or brand of the vehicles we drive.

  • avatar
    Scout_Number_4

    Picked up a 1999 Subaru Outback wagon with 214,000 miles, but new clutch, timing belt and head gaskets for $3000. Liability only is $93/month, gas seems to running me about $70/month so far. It’s a bit rough, but has a clean title and looks as if it’s never been wrecked. My 16YO son can now drive a stick shift, the wife and I spend less time shuttling him around. The down side? I’ve lost 2-3 hours per week of prime time with him. Guess I didn’t think that through completely….

    • 0 avatar
      bball40dtw

      Yeah….I’m not letting my daughter drive around the Detroit area in a ’99 Subaru with 214k on the clock.

      • 0 avatar
        28-Cars-Later

        Volvo 940.

        • 0 avatar
          bball40dtw

          I’d buy a D-platform sedan with the 3.5L or 3.7L and six speed automatic, so that’s kind of a Volvo.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            A much bigger PITA Volvo with alot more power for kids to wrap themselves around poles in…

          • 0 avatar
            bball40dtw

            I think a Taurus can wrap itself around two or three poles.

            Honestly, I don’t think my wife would let me buy a Taurus for our daughter. She knows that I’d go to the dealership, figure out that a used Taurus SHO or MKS Ecoboost was only a couple thousand more than the regualr one. Then our duaghter would be driving a 365 HP AWD monster because her father is insane.

            The compromise would end up being a Focus SE with a manual transmission.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            How well does Focus withstand a 40mph collision?

          • 0 avatar
            bball40dtw

            The current generation? Very well.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            I’d put a kid 12-15 years hence in an MY10-14 Volvo S60 or I’d maybe go way back for a 940 depending on how ginormous trucks are in a decade.

          • 0 avatar
            bball40dtw

            I wonder how much safer cars will be in 12-15 years. Maybe the machines will kill us all by then though.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            Volvo is a bit like an IBM/Lenovo Thinkpad, the tend to be a ahead of the curve in terms up upgradeability/technology so a used one at 70%+ off new makes more sense long term than a cheap consumer grade (read: disposable) laptop @ $300-400 new.

            “Maybe the machines will kill us all by then though.”

            I’m shocked we’re already not all dead from something, although Fukushima works slowly.

          • 0 avatar
            bball40dtw

            It’s going to take more than one Fukushima to kill us. The bad news is that the US has a bunch of old, raggady nuclear power plants with a similar design. I live 48 miles from one. They are supposed to add a brand new reactor though.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            Fermi?

          • 0 avatar
            bball40dtw

            Yeah, there are plans for Fermi 3 to be built. It just has to clear a couple enviromental hurdles and be okayed by the Nuclear Regulatory Commission. Apparently one of the issues is the threatened fox snake population. The other is more of the “We Almost Lost Detroit”, Gil Scott-Heron variety. The only thing that will actually stop it is cheap natural gas.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            The GE BWRs need to all be shut down after Fukushima. I’m surprised our glorious leader and supposed friend of environment did not slowly put this into force from 2011 onward. Oh wait it must not have fit his global warming hoax, er meme.

    • 0 avatar
      Wscott97

      I completely agree that one’s first car should be a P.O.S. Both of my sisters received a new car when they turned 16 and still doesn’t know how to take care of a car to this day.
      When I turned 16, I drove a brand new 1993 Prism LSi, I kept it clean but never took care of it Mechanically. When I went off to college my parents wouldn’t let me take the car to Arizona. Once we got there, we quickly realized that I would need a car so they bought a 1989 Mitsubishi Gallant ($3,995 dealer special with 80,000 miles). That’s when I learned the importance on how to maintain a car.
      Most of my friends how were born and raised in Orange County. They all got a new car bought for them and for some reason; I’m not the go to guy when they have a car problem.
      Ironically, as I was writing this; my friend just called me with a car problem.

      • 0 avatar
        bball40dtw

        I don’t think it should be a POS. I am not any better of a person because I drove a $hitty car while young. I have the financial means to buy my kid a $10K-15K car that will last for 5+ years with minimal costs. Of course there are expectations that have to be met to usethe car, but I’d rather put her in that situation, make my wife happy, and not worry.

        • 0 avatar

          Thank you, bball. This is not necessarily targeted at anyone here, but a lot of people in the more-senior generations have this holier-than-thou notion that kids who don’t go through the School of Hard Knocks and drive a hooptie of some sort are doomed to be entitled and unable to take care of their cars…and it’s just not true. If you give your kid a new car (or an old one) and don’t impose stipulations on how he is to take care of it, you (the parent) are as in the wrong as he is. And for what it’s worth, I didn’t know too many people, even the entitled ones that had brand-new Bimmers, who didn’t make sure their cars were in good working order.

          Also, buying/giving your child a car—as opposed to her “babysitting for two summers to save up for it”—does not automatically mean that she is a brat. If she’s a brat after she gets the car, then she was a brat *before* she got the car…and that’s a symptom of a bigger problem.

          • 0 avatar
            bball40dtw

            My wife’s MkT is her first car that wasn’t purchased or leased new (she’s 30). This has not negatively impacted her as a person. She wasn’t spoiled when I met her and she isn’t spoiled now. Even if she did know how to change her own oil, transmission fuild, and brake pads, it would be a waste of her time to do it. It would either take away from her earning money or being with family.

          • 0 avatar

            That, too. I don’t change my own oil because I can earn more money doing other things. Plus, since I don’t have a lift, it’s not worth the discomfort.

            Overall, I just don’t think we should judge people based on what they buy and how expensive or “wasteful” it is. If you have the income to lease a brand-new S-Class every three years, by all means, do so. I never judged any of my classmates when their parents bought them brand-new $40,000 cars. Many of them were very humble and pleasant to be around, and one was the class valedictorian.

  • avatar
    PrincipalDan

    Good arguments. We’ll see how range continues to increase over the next several years.

  • avatar
    Mandalorian

    A lease is a fairly superfluous use of money. To a lot of people, especially this age it makes more sense to buy.

    Secondly, save Tesla, almost all electric vehicles are tin cans. They’re tiny and have questionable safety. I don’t know how many parents would be comfortable with this.

    Third, it’s a lot of money for a vehicle that’s so compromised. Kids just driving around town don’t really use too much gas. Compromising the vehicle’s size, safety and capacity for fuel savings in dumb.

    The best first car is a full-size SUV or Pickup. If one learns to drive on that, pretty much everything else will be easy in comparison.

    • 0 avatar
      CoreyDL

      Fourth, kid drivers are sh!t at it, and get parking lot dings and run into posts and shopping carts. You’ll have fun paying for all that when the lease is up. Not to mention, if you’re getting this full coverage vehicle in your name, you better at least put your kid on as primary driver…

      And that’s gonna cost you, a lot.

    • 0 avatar
      Truckducken

      You had me until your last paragraph. Kids roll their vehicles a lot, why go out of your way to make it easy? Kids need a low center of gravity and a low power/weight ratio. Add decent crash ratings and you’re good to go.

      • 0 avatar
        28-Cars-Later

        You just described a RWD Volvo.

        • 0 avatar
          eamiller

          RWD Volvos aren’t all that safe in modern terms.

          Go look at the pictures of the Volvo 850 that IIHS tested in 1995 (moderate overlap crash test) compared to a new Chevrolet Spark. There’s way more collapse of the vehicle structure (despite it getting a low bar “Good” rating) and intrusion into the passenger compartment.

          Oh, and the Chevrolet Spark EV and Volvo 850 basically weigh the same amount (roughly 3000 lbs), so if you crashed one into the other you’d be more likely to survive in the Spark.

          Add in the standard side curtain airbags (far more effective than Volvo’s old SIPS) and it’s really a no brainer as to which is safer.

    • 0 avatar
      Sigivald

      “Compromising the vehicle’s size, safety and capacity for fuel savings in dumb.”

      Except, again, modern electrics are as safe as any reasonable person could ask.

      Reduced capacity is arguably a feature in a first car for a teenage new driver…

      Size doesn’t matter *in itself*.

      (Doing it for fuel savings is, agreed, dumb.

      For deliberate range limitation and enforced responsibility training, maybe not so much.)

      • 0 avatar
        Mandalorian

        Electronic safety measures are fun and cute until the vehicle gets hit, then physics takes over.

        And the full-sizer thing: Because these vehicles are easier to role, learning to drive on one would make one acutely aware of the limits of the vehicle and one would drive in such a manner to avoid rolling.

        The trouble comes when someone switches from a Civic that they can whip around corners into a Suburban thinking it will be the same.

    • 0 avatar
      hubcap

      I don’t think it needs to be full size. A Frontier, Xterra or something similar will do. Bonus if it has a manual transmission.

  • avatar
    CoreyDL

    “Some parents will complain that the “silence” of an electric vehicle will permit the kids to sneak out of the house”

    I don’t get this. What car is so loud that you can’t start it without waking the household? Are these Civics or Corollas roaring to life? Are you listening THAT intently at night, in your suburban home? You’d be waking up a lot, any time anybody drove by the house. And if they’re that determined, they’ll just roll/push it down to the street or away before starting it.

    And if your kid sucks and you don’t trust them not to sneak out at night, maybe keep their keys with you.

  • avatar
    CoreyDL

    “Overall, if it comes to less than $5,000 a year to have your teenager driving, getting an electric vehicle might be a good car.”

    Good lord. My Audi 5000 was something like $2300, and a year of insurance at maybe $100/mo. And I paid for all that myself.

    Spending $5,000 a year to let your teen drive? I think not.

    • 0 avatar
      bball40dtw

      And what happened to your Audi 5000? Mine went into an eletrical gremlin induced death spiral.

      • 0 avatar
        CoreyDL

        One of the locks wouldn’t lock – caused me to be responsible and not leave anything valuable in the car, just in case.

        The radiator broke on my way home from school – spent $600 to fix it.

        The climate control was wonky, sometimes didn’t work – car still drove!

        None of that cost $5,000 a year. And I looked way more cool than these fools in old Cutlass Supremes. And I had the only Audi in the (student) parking lot!

    • 0 avatar
      Sigivald

      How long ago was that?

      And remember, his $5k figure *includes fuel*.

      How much fuel did that Audi use?

      (In 2015 prices, please!)

      • 0 avatar
        CoreyDL

        It didn’t use that much fuel, I was getting 22-23MPG, as it was a 5-cylinder FWD one. This was in the year 2001. Gas was under $1.22/gal.

        • 0 avatar
          28-Cars-Later

          I was lucky to crack 17 in city driving in mine.

          • 0 avatar
            CoreyDL

            Was yours a Quattro or a turbo or something?

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            Nope, base 2.3L gas I5 FWD with cloth seats.

          • 0 avatar
            CoreyDL

            Maybe you had a lead foot – I always drove carefully because I was conscious at high school age of the increasing costs of fuel!

            Plus with the AC on it didn’t really go fast anyway. Tell me, did yours go CLACKETY CLACKETY as you went along, with the lifters making noise?

          • 0 avatar
            bball40dtw

            Mine was the 5000CS Turbo Quattro.

          • 0 avatar
            CoreyDL

            Oh mister fancy man with your AWD and your turbos.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            I don’t think it made lifter noises but its been gone for five years and I can’t remember. I suspect it needed TLC and I just never gave it any (other than some Pentosin and a serp belt). From what I do remember it liked to do 16-17city /20-21 hwy

          • 0 avatar
            CoreyDL

            You’re not doing the 5000 any memory justice! I remember the way that velour smelled, how those vertical push buttons on the dash felt for the defrost, the lifter ticking, and even the click-click of the trigger door handles (both before and during breakage).

            But it was my first car and all.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            I had… an MY90 Audi 100. I was leet you were a n00b in a 5K.

            Oh snap.

          • 0 avatar
            CoreyDL

            It’s 5000 or nah, for the ori-ginal! But hey I replaced that 5k with a 90S. 2.8 V6 beats yo I5.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            Try again, early 2.8s were blow up motors. The early C4 100 (MY92+) was also problematic with its AWD.

          • 0 avatar
            CoreyDL

            The 90S was a ’93, no engine problems – it actually ran really well. Did have a CEL for a vacuum leak (shocker) after a while.

            Also went in for a recall on the cat-conv., which was breaking apart while I was driving.

  • avatar
    Car Ramrod

    Ahh, here’s why this wont work for me. Unless I make it big and land a home with a 4-car garage, the kidmobile sleeps outside. There’s the added cost of setting up an unsightly charging station.

    • 0 avatar
      CoreyDL

      Just run extension cords out to the street or driveway, it’s fine.

      • 0 avatar
        Car Ramrod

        Kids love pranks. I can see the unplug the cord gag getting popular.

        • 0 avatar
          CoreyDL

          Yep, then all the sudden it’s your problem at 7:30 AM when your kid can’t get to school and is whining to you.

          Here’s me: “I got you that electric POS, if you can’t control your friends then take the bus.” *Leaves for work in ICE vehicle*.

          • 0 avatar
            Syke

            No, its the school bus’ problem. And one time being forced to ride the bus – once – will ensure that said kid takes lots of care to make sure his/her car is charged in the morning.

          • 0 avatar
            bball40dtw

            The school district I live in is a no-busing district.

            “Oh, you didn’t charge you car? Get a ride from someone or walk.”

  • avatar
    Kendahl

    This makes sense if it is a first car for a teenager still living at home. It won’t work for an adult living independently unless he/she finds some other mode of transportation to reach areas outside the EV’s radius.

  • avatar
    C. Alan

    Given what fuel prices are destined to become in the Peoples Republic of Kalifornia, my current commuter car (a Chevy Volt) will more than likely become my now 12 year old son’s first car. In four years, that car will have over 150k miles on it if it survives my daily commute. So he will have the best of both worlds, a beater electric car with a gas engine if he fails to charge it.

  • avatar
    Chan

    Another nice thing about EVs is that they have no top-end power. Most EVs top out at 70-80 mph, and even the hilariously overpowered Tesla Model S can’t reach 130 mph.

    Flooring it in an EV not only decimates your range, it’s also very underwhelming and not fun at all. Perfect for the leadfoot teenage driver.

    • 0 avatar
      Syke

      Bingo! And, unless said child belongs to (and wholly subscribes to) a carbon-neutral, environmental-activist household, owning an electric car will be somewhat subdued, humility-inducing experience. Definitely not the kind of car that inspires the driver to wild joyriding, or show off how cool they are.

  • avatar
    210delray

    Regarding IIHS crash test ratings, on their website it states, “Unless otherwise indicated, ratings for vehicles with gasoline or diesel engines also apply to hybrid versions of the same models. However, ratings do not apply to plug-in hybrid or electric variants unless they have been tested separately.”

    Looks like the only cars the IIHS tested with a plug are the Prius Plug-in, Leaf, and Volt.

    Tiny cars like the Fiat 500 and Chevy Spark aren’t safe for teens, regardless of their crash test ratings.

    • 0 avatar
      Sigivald

      “Tiny cars like the Fiat 500 and Chevy Spark aren’t safe for teens, regardless of their crash test ratings.”

      Why?

      I’m serious – what makes them unsafe, regardless of crash test ratings?

      I mean, I’d think the crash ratings would be a pretty serious component in safety evaluation, even if “zomg it failed the partial overlap test that’s a really rare crash modality” is overrated as a factor.

      • 0 avatar
        210delray

        Check this out: http://www.iihs.org/iihs/news/desktopnews/iihs-issues-recommendations-on-used-vehicles-for-teens-after-research-finds-many-arent-driving-the-safest-ones

        The relevant quote: “Bigger, heavier vehicles protect better in a crash. There are no minicars or small cars on the recommended list [for teens]. Small SUVs are included because their weight is similar to that of a midsize car.”

        • 0 avatar
          eamiller

          That’s a bit of a false comparison. IIHS has cherry picked the data for their needs (very common for IIHS’s soapbox issues). For most people it would be either a much older car or a minicar. Modern minicars are safer than many older (larger) vehicles. They actually weigh a bit more than some older, larger cars.

  • avatar
    Hummer

    This is terrible, I don’t want my children to be reliant on me for the rest of their lives, if they want to detour 100 miles some afternoon, going to the beach or just riding around, thats good. Much better they explore the world around them see different communities and get lifelong memories with friends than be inside playing video games.

    This is the same rationalization that keeps kids from getting trampolines and dirtbikes.

    • 0 avatar
      highdesertcat

      LOL! If you live in America and we, the people, continue America’s economic policy the way we have been, we’ll see more kids reliant on their parents, even after graduating with a competent 4-year college degree or advanced University degree.

      We Americans ALWAYS get exactly what we deserve, because we vote for it.

      Sometimes the unintended consequences hurt our kids, like saddling them with an $18Trillion-and-growing national debt, or forcing them to pay higher income taxes for the healthcare of freeloaders, if our kids can land a job.

      So much easier to crawl back into the nest of mom and dad than to strike out on their own by moving into the great unknown the way the Pioneers of America did it.

      So many jobs in America unfilled. So few people willing to work.

      Don’t worry, be happy, kick back and collect welfare and foodstamps.

    • 0 avatar
      Drzhivago138

      I’m not a gamer, but I have to take issue with your notion that video games can’t be a valid source of entertainment and/or provide as compelling a story as other forms of creative work.

      • 0 avatar
        hubcap

        I don’t think that’s what Hummer was saying.

        I enjoy video games but I also like to unplug and enjoy being outside doing things and interacting with people.

  • avatar
    z9

    As a big fan of electric cars and the parent of two teenagers, I believe this is great advice and I am following it. The lack of maintenance is huge. Electric cars are trouble-free in ways that anyone who hasn’t owned one can’t imagine. Is the point of making a car available to a teenager to teach them what we went through in the dark ages with car ownership, or is it to provide transportation? What we went through in the dark ages with car ownership is no longer an essential rite of passage with electric technology, sharing services, etc. In a city a car is just a pain 98% of the time for the 2% of the time when you need one. In general, car ownership is becoming the modern equivalent of owning and taking care of a horse. Now if you find caring for horses inherently pleasurable, more power to you. But I don’t see horse care as an essential life skill in 2015. We can argue whether that’s a good or bad thing. But it’s reality.

    • 0 avatar
      Scoutdude

      EVs are not 100% maintenance free. They just forgo oil changes and tune ups. Oil changes are as infrequent as up to a year on some cars while a tune up interval can be as far away as 100K. Most modern cars have stainless exhaust systems so they can last decades.

      EVs still need tires, and having their pressure checked and rotated from time to time. Their brakes still wear out even if it isn’t as frequent. They also need coolant and trans fluid changed periodically.

      If you are doing a lease like it suggested you’ll have 3-6 oil changes for the conventional car that will be the only extra maintenance for a ICE powered vehicle vs an EV.

  • avatar
    87 Morgan

    Interesting thoughts here. I take the complete inverse approach though. If you want your teen to learn the following: budgeting, self reliance, independent problem solving, and an overall lack of fear of the big bad bad world get them……

    A 1979 F250 with a 460 and a four speed manual, essentially a 3 speed with a granny gear AND make them buy their own gas.

    1. 9 mpg will provide the natural tether, you can provide more dough when more mileage is needed.

    2. They will have to learn how to make small repairs

    3. They will have to learn how to handle being on the side of the road broke down with out panicking

    4. A 79 f250 is pretty slow, especially with a tired v8.

    Giving my kid a nicer car than what I drive everyday teaches them nothing other than what the author most likely has, a sense of entitlement.

    • 0 avatar
      matador

      I do have an objection:

      I own a 1986 Ram D250 with the 4bbl 360. The big girl can move! Get the kid a 300, or even better, a Thriftpower Six. The 300 will return 10-11 MPG, and they will be unlikely to get a speeding ticket.

      Other than that, I agree completely.

      I know that in the inner cities this wouldn’t work, but if I were in the middle of Detroit, Chicago, NYC, or any of the other cities, the first thing that I would do would be to leave anyways.

      I agree, though. Cheap, Fixable, and in a crash, they’ll probably be fine. Plus, they’ll learn car control. A 2WD pickup with a manual teaches you a lot about oversteer.

      I like the line of thought. I’ll take a Square Body, though. ;)


Back to TopLeave a Reply

You must be logged in to post a comment.

Recent Comments

  • ObviouslyCarGuru: Boy, a whole bunch of you poor babies heads are gonna explode when country hating politicians are...
  • stuki: Subpar infrastructure has always been a problem in third world countries.
  • SCE to AUX: “Anyone with a Tesla who cheers when the Blue Angels do a fly-by at a sports game should have to...
  • Hydromatic: Iraq proved the U.S. can knock around small armies with almost laughable ease, but chokes when faced with...
  • ToolGuy: OK, but when TVA was formed they put hands in a lot of pockets, and much more. Growing up, the dad next door...

New Car Research

Get a Free Dealer Quote

Staff

  • Contributors

  • Timothy Cain, Canada
  • Matthew Guy, Canada
  • Ronnie Schreiber, United States
  • Bozi Tatarevic, United States
  • Chris Tonn, United States
  • Corey Lewis, United States
  • Mark Baruth, United States
  • Moderators

  • Adam Tonge, United States
  • Corey Lewis, United States