By on March 5, 2015

hipster lyft millennials

Alleged to not be interested in cars or driving them, millennials are the fastest-growing segment of car buyers as far as lending goes, per a new study.

According to Automotive News, credit-reporting company TransUnion found the group represented 27 percent of overall auto loans and lease originations made in 2014, up from just 16 percent in 2009. Senior vice president and automotive business leader Jason Laky says this is due to both an improving economy and millennials’ entering into the next phase of their lives:

They’re maturing into their adulthood. They’re getting to the point where they’re employed, they’re having families, they’re moving to a place where they’re financing just like previous generations.

Meanwhile, Gen Xers were the largest segment in auto lending, accounting for 34 percent of loans and originations in 2014. Boomers followed close behind with 32 percent, down from 34 percent in 2013. Average balances per generation are $21,779 for Gen X, $21,055 for boomers, and $18,678 for millennials, the last group experiencing the largest jump in average outstanding balances at 4.1 percent.

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154 Comments on “Study: Millennial Fastest-Growing Auto Lending Segment...”


  • avatar
    CoreyDL

    I hate being lumped into a generation generalization by some analyst who don’t know my life.

    I also hate the photo of these annoying women.

    Get off my lawn! (Oh I’m a millennial with a lawn, how novel. I should be renting a downtown condo for $2000/mo.)

    • 0 avatar

      Actually, this is a pretty complimentary photo. They could have selected someone with glue in their hair, multiple tattoos, piercings, and holes in the ear lobes large enough you could drive a truck through them.

      Yes, Millennials are the fastest growing segment and at some point the cars they buy will actually be money makers for dealers and OEMs.

      Maybe they’ll even be able to change the way new cars are sold.

      • 0 avatar
        CoreyDL

        Who puts glue in their hair, and why?

        • 0 avatar

          The “why” is what I don’t understand.

        • 0 avatar
          319583076

          Apparently Millenials, because Millenial.

        • 0 avatar
          insalted42

          Google seems to think that it has something to do with women gluing other womens’ hair into their own. I don’t understand fashion…

          • 0 avatar
            CoreyDL

            That’s a little morbid. Why not just get a weave?

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            ” I don’t understand fashion…”

            According to the three women in my life (wife and two grand daughters) today’s fashion is all about the “inner-thigh gap.”

            Cars? Not so much. But if there must be a car for them to get around in, it has to be one with Curb Appeal.

          • 0 avatar
            CoreyDL

            It’s only about the inner-thigh gap because most women don’t have it. And they eat too much McDonald’s and exercise too little to ever GET it, without the assistance of plastic surgery.

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            You’re right. Most American women don’t have the inner-thigh gap! Their thighs rub together and you can hear them coming down the s!dewalk.

            But their peers who do have the inner-thigh gap are their worst critics and tormentors. Merciless is the word.

            Did you ever wonder why Spanx are so popular, even with the heifers in our society?

            After seeing a Victoria Secrets commercial on TV I have often wondered how most American women can stuff all that cellulite and flab into those tiny garments.

          • 0 avatar
            CoreyDL

            I can hear em comin, and I see the bag of door knobs in their tight pants that they’re too big to wear!

            If they are unhappy with how society sees them, then they should make an attempt at fixing it, through hard work. This “thin shaming” they do is BS. Those women work very hard to be thin and get where they are – you could too. But you’d rather sit in your chair and eat a doughnut, and share how bad you feel that there are thin women taking pictures of themselves.

            Makes me angry! A serious flaw with our society presently.

          • 0 avatar
            bball40dtw

            Women care about thigh gap?

            My wife never talks about these things so I have no idea.

          • 0 avatar
            CoreyDL

            From what you’ve said your wife is thin/fit, so she doesn’t have to worry about it – so it doesn’t come up!

          • 0 avatar
            bball40dtw

            She would refer to herself as fit not thin. She out squats and deadlifts the worthless bros at the gym, so she can call herself whatever she wants.

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            “A serious flaw with our society presently.”

            Yes it is! And it only is going to get worse, as will the bullying and the shaming, especially in High School.

            But as far as people eating too much and the wrong foods, much is driven by frustration, anger, envy, and the need for some guilty pleasure after an unsatisfying day.

            I know, I buy cases of Yogurt for my three ladies as between-meals snacks.

            And there is all the exercise equipment we kept around the house for decades (treadmills, stair steppers, ellipticals, rowers, weight benches, etc. Hard work to remain slender.

            To a large extent, our family is not predisposed to being overweight, obese or flabby. Our DNA came from slender people, both on my s!de and my wife’s s!de.

            But the in-laws. Yeah, Mexican food aids and abets obesity and beer washes out the kidneys but packs on the spare tire around the belly.

            Usually, after a person has a heart attack or some other medical emergency, that’s when they experience the “AHA” moment.

            bball, usually the firmness of one’s body is what determines if a person is obese or unfit. Age does bring sagging, bagging, and loss of muscle tone, but if someone keeps the belly fat down, they can usually pass the BMI, even if they are diabetic or have other medical situations like high cholesterol.

          • 0 avatar
            kmoney

            “You’re right. Most American women don’t have the inner-thigh gap! Their thighs rub together and you can hear them coming down the s!dewalk.”

            Someone needs to make undergarments that can recover the frictional energy generated by rubbing thighs — with proper storage and distribution it could be an excellent source of renewable energy.

          • 0 avatar
            CoreyDL

            I come from fat people on both sides, with diabetes and heart issues all around.

            But I am 6′ and just under 150lbs, because I work at it. And I don’t eat all that crap, no matter how bad my day was.

            If you had a crap day, exercise the annoyance out. Ha.

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            kmoney, the product is called Spanx.

            All three of my ladies wear them as daily under-garments. No VPL in whatever slender-clothing they choose to wear.

            Important that, especially when out in public. But I have to say I hate how men ogle my 17-yo grand daughter………….

            CoreyDL, exercising is great for young people, but for the aged, like myself, the mind is willing but the body regularly craps out.

            For me, there is the lap-pool I built decades ago. Not only is it heated, but when I turn on the pump it batters me all over my body. Feels good.

          • 0 avatar
            CoreyDL

            HDC, you gotta do those low-impact water aerobics and walking :).

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            CoreyDL, I do, until the body goes on strike.

            You know, when I turn on that pump in that lap-pool, the water-jets just beat the sh!t out of me from many directions. It feels so good when it stops and I can crawl out and rest.

            I built this contraption decades ago from parts I had picked up here and there over the years so it doesn’t resemble anything in even your wildest imagination. Just a conglomeration of various pool, spa and hot-tub parts.

            It’s popular with the family though.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            @hdc

            http://www.rexnewnhamarthritiseducation.com/paper.asp

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            Thanks, 28-Cars-Later. We take all sorts of vitamins and supplements like most people our age. And it includes Boron.

            Some supplements work. Some don’t. Some give us the sh!ts.

            Whatever cleanses the body’s inner workings, right?

            Chondroitin supplements really seem to work for some people when it comes to joint pain.

            A Portuguese-American friend of mine in Marysville, CA, says it helps him fly his stunt plane. He is 78 years of age. He can still do aerobatics at his age as long as the body remains limber.

          • 0 avatar

            If I go to Walmart, what are the chances I will see inner thigh gap?

          • 0 avatar
            Lie2me

            “But I am 6′ and just under 150lbs”

            Corey, eat something you’re too skinny

            Sorry, I was just channeling my grandmother

          • 0 avatar
            CoreyDL

            I hear that from my mom occasionally as well. But I have a thin frame, there’s not much to me – so I don’t need to weigh a lot!

            Many people do not understand frame sizes.

      • 0 avatar
        ellomdian

        Leave it to dear, sweet grandpa Ruggles to associate late Gen-X stereotypes as milennial phenotypes :p

        Honestly, most of the late 20-something early 20-something Millenial friends I have are as godforsakenly boring today as their Gen-X predecessors were at this age a decade ago. Do many of them have tattoos and even gagues? Sure, but now they’re way more worried about Health insurance and their Credit than what they’re putting in their hair.

        Honestly, its fascinating to see the economy adapt (as it does every generation) organically to the needs and desires of the newly money-ed. You know, since the Gen-X’ers are still recovering from the last 7 years of terrible macro-economics, and the Boomers purse strings closed tighter than the Spanx on a rapidly aging prom queen (yes, I read the comments below, and was a little frightened. The comments around here have gotten ANGRY lately…)

  • avatar
    JuniperBug

    It would surprise me if this wasn’t the case. The Millennials are going from college-aged to employment-aged. It’s fairly obvious that the rate of car financing would be increasing.

    As a Millennial (one of the older ones of my generation), I’m even contemplating signing for a 3-4 year loan on a new Golf one of these days, myself.

  • avatar
    jfranci3

    This falls under the no-f-ing s#$% category. This is the age group of people who are going from $0 income to full employment income. If they aren’t the wildly fastest growing segment, the world has exploded. I don’t even understand why someone would fire up the spreadsheet o’ matic for this stupid analysis.

    • 0 avatar
      highdesertcat

      Yup, it’s the normal progression for any demographic as they age and progress through their lives.

      At this stage in their lives they’re also looking at buying a house and getting a mortgage.

    • 0 avatar

      Exactly. They are at the age where they are old enough to need a reliable car but young enough not to have the savings to pay cash for it. Not exactly a shock.

  • avatar
    28-Cars-Later

    “They’re maturing into their adulthood.”

    Living with the ‘rents till you’re 29 does not an adult make.

    “They’re getting to the point where they’re employed,”

    Starbucks, Walmart, and the local nursing home are not careers.

    “they’re having families,”

    No they are not, and when they are its due to irresponsibility not planning.

    “they’re moving to a place where they’re financing just like previous generations.”

    Because they have no career, little money, and used car valuations are still sky high the ZIRP and easy credit allow them to step into new high priced cars they cannot actually afford. But, its different this time, you’ll see.

    • 0 avatar

      The more things change the more they stay the same.

      • 0 avatar
        28-Cars-Later

        Well put.

        • 0 avatar
          CoreyDL

          28, calling out his own generation for what it is, since 1982!

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            Gen X, son – the last year before your disastrous generation :)

            “Jon Miller at the Longitudinal Study of American Youth at the University of Michigan wrote that “Generation X refers to adults born between 1961 and 1981” and it “includes 84 million people” in the U.S”

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation_X

          • 0 avatar
            CoreyDL

            None of this BS ever applies to me when they talk about it.

            I do NOT represent my generation!

          • 0 avatar

            That’s the same range Neil Howe and William Strauss gave for our generation! Mom and Dad are at the very end of the Boomer era (1960 and 1959 — and seven months apart — respectively).

          • 0 avatar

            Corey, I think I found your theme song, courtesy of my generation:

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOsNsOhyG8I

          • 0 avatar
            CoreyDL

            Ha. My theme song is from 1979, and is by The Doobie Brothers.

            What A Fool Believes

          • 0 avatar

            Now, I’m reminded of the debut episode of “Yacht Rock” where Michael McDonald and Kenny Loggins created the song after a spat with each other over smooth music versus Loggins’ rock and roll aspirations. Good times.

          • 0 avatar
            CoreyDL

            I love Yacht Rock as a genre. And I love how Kenny Loggins is the DJ in GTA5 (Los Santos Rock Radio), of the station which plays mostly Yacht Rock!

            Their tag line is even “Loggins from the Yaaaacht!”

            And my favorite song as mentioned, is in GTA as well.

        • 0 avatar
          Chocolatedeath

          28, so basically you can have a kid and both you and them be a GEN X?

    • 0 avatar
      bball40dtw

      The new boss is always the same as the old boss.

    • 0 avatar
      Sloomis

      Jeez, lighten up a bit, grandpa

      • 0 avatar
        TW5

        [half joking] The US is sinking, and millennials are happy to go down with the Titanic as long as they get a sweet selfie. “Lighten up”. That’s literally ironic. [/half joking]

    • 0 avatar
      JuniperBug

      Just because the economic climate is less favourable to Millennials, doesn’t mean that everyone is living in their parents’ basements waiting for their inheritance to kick in. Some are, but many others have been working on lucrative careers – which these days does mean you might have to study well into your twenties or beyond – and they’re getting to an age where that’s starting to pay off.

      I’m by no means the most ambitious of my peers, and I was working 18 hours a week when I was 15, was out of my parents’ house for good by 24 (spent part of my 24th year working in Europe), have been to about 15 countries – none on my parents’ dime – speak 3 languages, am still working part-time on a business degree (I changed directions a few times in my 20s, including failing out of mech. eng.), and could buy a new economy car in cash if I were so inclined.

      As I stated above, and jfranci3 said more elegantly, you’d have to be an idiot to think that Millennials aren’t going to start driving car sales in the near future.

    • 0 avatar
      danio3834

      Well, there’s some sweeping generalizations. They’re becoming less true every day. It’s true that millenials are delaying entering the workforce and having families in general as compared to previous generations, but that’s mostly a symptom of this generation obtaining more college degrees (and advanced ones) as a percentage of the population as a whole. Millenials are on track to be the most educated generation yet.

      • 0 avatar

        There are and unfortunately, they have heavy debt along with it which slows down their buying. But it will all work out.

        I do find that while Millennials have MUCH more information, they don’t necessarily “know” more. All that information is like drinking through a fire hose. Then there is the lack of business experience that goes along with the age group, which we all had. It will all come together at the point when Millennials are complaining about those coming behind THEM.

        • 0 avatar
          319583076

          Or, like most people, they’re taking shortcuts and/or advantage of the systems in place to win the degree and qualification without necessarily earning it. Of course, the responsibility for granting degrees falls squarely on the shoulders of educators who are prone to taking the easy way out rather than holding students responsible and failing them.

          Many college students these days approach coursework as a commodity and teachers as customer service providers. I’ve seen it in teacher evaluations semester after semester.

          Incidentally, I’m in the unenviable position of telling a young person that he/she will not be graduating this spring due to failing a course assignment. Curiously, most of my other colleagues have never failed a student.

        • 0 avatar
          hreardon

          There’s plenty of information out there – just too little expertise.

          With so much readily available information *everyone* thinks they’re an expert in *everything*.

          Take our B&B as an example! ;-)
          (I kid, I kid)

        • 0 avatar
          CoreyDL

          We will be able to see who’s coming behind us easily, because we’re always taking selfies.

          UGGHGHGHH

      • 0 avatar
        thornmark

        >>Millenials (sic) are on track to be the most educated generation yet.<<

        Many, if not most, in areas w/ little demand. Google has found that finding talent directly from HS is often better.

      • 0 avatar
        28-Cars-Later

        “Millenials are on track to be the most educated generation yet.”

        and still understand nothing…

        • 0 avatar
          highdesertcat

          “and still understand nothing…”

          My observation is that they understand alright but that their list of priorities is different from the generations before them.

          What I consider important is not at all important to millennials with the exception of the basic hierarchy of needs like food and shelter.

        • 0 avatar
          danio3834

          Understanding comes with experience. Give it time.

          • 0 avatar
            hreardon

            Yes, Danio, but my experience with the ‘mils, as I call them (no pun intended), is that they have led exceptionally sheltered lives.

            One good dollup of constructive criticism and they melt.

            True story: Last year interviewed about 20 candidates for a position I needed to fill; Entry level technology position. Almost all were between the ages of 22-29 and each interview resulted in a meltdown of some sort and being told that I was asking “unfair questions”; Questions that were the industry-specific equivalent of “if you’re such a networking expert, explain to me how IP traffic is routed around a basic LAN”.

            The eventual hire had the least experience and was self-emancipated at the age of 16 due to a bad home situation. I’ve never met a harder working person more dedicated to self improvement and getting ahead than this kid.

          • 0 avatar

            I have also had the occasion to interview many Millenials. Some were great!!! Others arrived to interview for a sales position looking positively bedraggled. It mostly had to do with the fashion of their generation. I asked one guy, who was REALLY proud of his new smartphone, if he understood that he would be selling to a broad cross section of the population rather than just his generation. He didn’t understand so I explained he would need some clothes that would work well in a sales environment. I was told he needed the job first so he could buy some clothes.

            I also heard about the “unfair questions.” I guess I was only supposed to ask questions they knew the answer to. Imagine lecturing a person you want a job from. I finally figured out that many of them really didn’t want a job as they had adapted to life with the parents/parent. None had enough job experience to be collecting unemployment.

            I guess hanging out with one’s friends for mutual reinforcement is a plan these days. And much better to have the latest gadget than interview clothes for a job you don’t even want. An alarming percentage were like this.

          • 0 avatar
            CoreyDL

            Wearing a suit to the interview and sending a thank you letter has netted me every job I’ve ever had an interview for.

            Except one, and they decided not to fill the position because it got deleted.

          • 0 avatar
            danio3834

            “One good dollup of constructive criticism and they melt.”

            Yes I’ve noticed this with fresh faced new hires too. With time on the job and figuring out how things actually work in the real world, most of them eventually develop thicker skin and learn how to function. Just like most of us did when we started out.

            Some don’t, flounder, and eventually get pushed out. A hard lesson in itself.

            I guess my point is that this attitude isn’t necessarily a recent affliction. I know, everyone insists the kids these days are worse than the last generation. It’s been said for generation after generation, yet we’re still able to invent incredible new technology and ways of doing things at an ever accelerating pace. It must be all those savvy Boomers and Gen Xers running things, right? It’ll fall apart as soon as they’re gone. Ha.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            “It must be all those savvy Boomers and Gen Xers running things, right? It’ll fall apart as soon as they’re gone”

            Actually unless said Millenials are going into the Nuclear Power industry, someone has to be around to operate the spent rod cooling pools or civilization as we know it will be gone.

          • 0 avatar
            319583076

            I hope you’re being facetious, 28.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            @319583076

            Actually no, keeping 50+ years worth of spent plutonium rods cool is critical to what we call civilization, if not the future of the human race. Many reactors were built forty years ago using technology from sixty years ago. Fukushima is a great example of what could happen on a large scale, and thus far it is the greatest industrial disaster in recorded history.

          • 0 avatar
            319583076

            I was working at a BWR that was built very similar to Fukushima when the tsunami happened.

            If the US nuclear fleet for whatever reason was abandoned, the interior of those containment buildings will eventually get messy but no one on the outside would ever know the difference.

            Worrying about spent fuel rods is roughly equivalent to worrying about a meteorite falling to Earth and killing you.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            @319583076

            Interesting. So in your professional opinion having the trained staff to keep those rods cool indefinitely is not something to be too concerned about? (no sarc)

          • 0 avatar
            319583076

            It is and it isn’t. Most US reactors have built on-site long-term storage facilities for their oldest fuel rods because Yucca Mountain is blocked/killed and there’s no where to put the fuel. These rods are cool enough to be stable without active heat-removal systems. The younger rods are kept in spent fuel storage, a large pool of ultra-clean water that is temperature-regulated and continuously circulated. If the mechanical systems all failed and no action were taken, each site has a “time to boil” calculation for their pool as well as how long the pool would have to boil to uncover the rods which would essentially have to happen to create the “melt down”. If this scenario occurs – the spent fuel pool is inside a reinforced concrete containment building. It is impossible for the fuel to melt through the floor, it is several feet thick and there are several floors between the pool and the foundation. Outside of the inner containment is a secondary containment, which would also have to be breached along with, typically, a normally-occupied building. Nuclear safety is built upon the idea of layers of safety.

            Left alone, an operating reactor will eventually automatically shut-down. As long as there is eletrical power supplied to the site, or the backup on-site power (at least two redundant systems) are operational, the reactor will find a non-critical state. The fuel in the reactor must defeat at least three additional barriers prior to reaching the atmosphere of the inner containment structure.

            So, if for whatever reason all of our nuke plants were abandoned today, it’s highly unlikely that any radioactive material would ever breach containment. The thing most people would notice is the eventual removal of approximately 20% of our electricity from the grid as the reactors automatically shut down.

            The risk of an abandoned reactor impacting our lives is much much less than the risk we take driving to work each day.

            To answer your question, I wouldn’t advise eliminating trained nuclear plant workers to manage our inventory, but I don’t worry about nuclear accidents and I currently live within an evacuation zone for an operating plant.

          • 0 avatar
            319583076

            If you’re interested, there are some decent graphics on Wikipedia illustrating relative locations of the reactor and spent fuel pool as well as the containment structures.

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fukushima_Daiichi_nuclear_disaster

            If the water boiled off of the spent fuel pool, any rods that were hot enough could melt, but they would likely end up as a mass in the bottom of the former pool.

    • 0 avatar
      ellomdian

      The only thing more enjoyable than watching Boomers forced to accept progressive change is watching rapidly-aging Gen-X’ers turn into their parents and assume that they know how to do things right.

      And then reminding them that they not only crafted the Dot-Com bust, but the HFT driven derivatives crash as well. You assholes literally killed the economy twice in 10 years.

      Go ahead and take potshots with well-worn chestnuts about twenty-somethings living in their parents basements.

      • 0 avatar
        billyjoejimbob

        “they not only crafted the Dot-Com bust” – umm no.

        In the late 90’s/early 2000’s we were in our late 20’s/early 30’s, roughly the age the millennials are at right now and similarly had very little influence on the dot com bust due to not having money to throw into epets.com and the like. That whole F up is squarely on the shoulders of Boomers who wanted to get rich quick off this new “internet thing” as they called it at the time.

        Now the housing bust? Yeah, our bad. Sorry about that. We did do that one because by the later 2000’s we had decent jobs and were able to buy houses. Overpriced houses as it turns out.

        • 0 avatar
          dtremit

          Boomers may have been funding the dot-bomb companies, but Xers were largely the ones running them. Good luck getting a Silicon Valley startup funded after 40…

  • avatar
    darkwing

    It would be interesting to know how much of this growth is in prime vs. subprime lending. It’s been long enough since the Mitsubishi fiasco that the industry may have forgotten.

  • avatar
    TW5

    Another blue-pill generation ready to rape the American Dream for fleeting pleasures and a Disneyland facade. Our parents taught us well.

    • 0 avatar
      28-Cars-Later

      Very well said, somebody’s been paying attention.

    • 0 avatar
      nickoo

      There are a lot more of us, especially veterans of recent wars, in this generation who see things differently than you may think. Its not popular to speak up, but with the information available to us that was never available before, and living through 2009, the fantasy narrative has been stripped away. The feds routinely infiltrate, false flag, and crush generational uprisings such as occupy wall street, which started out with good intentions before the infiltrators and professional agitators took over and the media on both the false left-right overton window was happy to help.

    • 0 avatar
      typ901

      is the blue pill Valium or Viagra? Nevermind.

  • avatar
    -Nate

    Ouch ~

    All this anger .

    So they’re ignorant Kids ~ so what ? .

    It’s not really any problem until they’re grown , then we’ll find out if they’re stupid instead of just ignorant as are all people until they learn…

    Now , GET OFFA MY LAWN DANGIT ! .

    -Nate

  • avatar
    DeadWeight

    I just realized yesterday that Kim Gordon of the former Sonic Youth is 61 years old.

    W T F !!!

    Get off of my lawn!

  • avatar
    cpthaddock

    Dammit, who’s going to mow my lawn if milenials are starting to get real jobs.

  • avatar
    Russycle

    You don’t have to be interested in cars in order to need one in the Land of Sprawl and Crappy Public Transport. Of course milennials would rather drive than walk ten miles or ride the bus, is anyone honestly surprised by this?

    • 0 avatar
      NoGoYo

      I certainly wish I could take the bus instead of driving everywhere…but then I see some of the people in town that I’d have to ride on the bus with and I feel a bit better about driving.

  • avatar
    J.Emerson

    Many of my college friends who have struggled to find good jobs are now getting full-time positions with benefits. The nonprofit sector has especially rebounded, which is good news for people with backgrounds in education and professional development. Many of them are now buying cars and looking at houses.

    The conservative backlash is about class and the balance of generational control. It’s never been about anything else.

    • 0 avatar
      highdesertcat

      “The conservative backlash is about class and the balance of generational control. It’s never been about anything else.”

      One thing no one can stop or slow is the march through time. And most millennials have come to the realization that they need to sh!t or get off the pot.

      For many of them, their parents blew their wads raising them, preparing them to launch, and they won’t be inheriting much when their parents die off. And for others, the parents need their kids’ to support them in their final years.

      The costs of nursing homes and assisted-living communities have risen beyond the means of most baby boomers. So many oldsters are “aging in place” with the financial help of their kids and/or America’s tax payers.

    • 0 avatar

      RE: “The conservative backlash is about class and the balance of generational control. It’s never been about anything else.”

      HUH?

    • 0 avatar
      TW5

      We like to imagine that the elderly are aging in place and entitlements are saving them from poverty worse than death. In reality, we have an appetite for largesse so extreme that a $17T economy and 100% public debt can’t cover the tab. What’s really happening is that relatively well-off Americans are simply burning down the country to collect the insurance money. We refuse to stop them because we imagine their victims are being hurt by austerity. The melodrama is sooo juicy!

      We are five decades into the process of converting middle class muscle into entitlement fat, which is LBJ’s insipid, self-defeating vision to assuage the guilty conscience of segregationist Southern Democrats. Of course, the reality of the situation will never be revealed because East Coast and West Coast liberals will never admit that Beneficent FDR’s party was hijacked by a Texas hayseed who wanted to buy his way into heaven. Therein lies the key to everything in American politics.

      Yankee-doodle Democrats like Obama are useless because they pretend LBJ never existed. Republicans are equally useless because they think they are clever enough to pay for LBJ’s plantation, which means Pubs never have to get painted as the party of cruel reform. Laff.

      Things are so bad conservatives probably could burn it all down and we’d still come out ahead. If people don’t like the backlash, maybe they should stop contributing to the problem.

      If people don’t support SS/MED/Medicaid/Welfare reform, future generations will exhume our bodies just to pee on the remains. Honestly, reform isn’t even the question. The question is what to do with the money……a question we can’t answer because we’re too dumb to reform. Vicious cycle.

      • 0 avatar
        highdesertcat

        TW5, very well written. You should publish this on financial and money boards. You would find many allies in this existential struggle to save America’s middle-class.

        I am a political Independent so I see faults on both s!des of the political aisle. As a consequence of this myopia on my part, I have always lived my life in a way that only concerns itself with looking out for me and mine, exclusively. I don’t worry about others, or keeping up with the Joneses, Smiths or Washingtons.

        In whatever I do, whatever strategy I devise and whatever tactic I employ to achieve my goal, I always keep in mind that America always gets exactly what we deserve; because we vote for it!

        For me, first and foremost always is a work-around to the barriers that keep me from reaching my goal. And I really don’t care which party is in power, as long as I reach my goal.

        (I do have to hastily admit that O’b*m*care has had a direct and negative impact on us, as it did with many old people who could no longer afford to buy supplemental health care to augment Medicare and who could not qualify for Medicaid or any of the other O’handouts.)

        • 0 avatar
          TW5

          We also work really hard so we deserve success whether we can invest like Buffet or not. The fruits of our labor are locked in an epic battle with the consequences of our votes.

          From time to time you have to laugh about it. Political identity is actually derived from what you want to do with the money, after the necessary reforms reclaim waste fraud and abuse. If you shower the middle class and employers with tax cuts, you win. If you spend the money on public works, education, and R&D (like NASA) you win. The economic lift will generate more FICA tax revenue and private retirement savings, too. The only way you can lose is to create a political system of mutually assured destruction.

          Imagine you’re bad with money. Dave Ramsey gives you one strategy and Suzy Orman gives you another. Each vows to kill you, if you use any advise from the other financial guru. You do nothing, and you die slowly of self-inflicted wounds. The melodrama. America is the best leading actor ever.

      • 0 avatar
        smartascii

        What you say is true, but the flawed assumption underlying it is that even though we have the lowest total taxation as a percentage of GDP in the OECD (except, some years, Chile and/or Mexico), we just can’t afford entitlements. The fact that conservatives have spent the past 30 years telling us that all taxation is bad because all government is bad doesn’t even begin to make it anything more than unpatriotic nonsense designed to appeal to the selfish lizard hindbrain of the voting public. The notion that any failure of any part of any entitlement program is evidence that all entitlements are a bad or untenable use of public funds is a favorite rallying cry of the most vocal contingent of our shallow, sound-bite public discourse, but the honest examination of what a country actually deprived of these programs would look like is not.

        You’re right that the relatively well off are burning the place to the ground to collect, but no one’s talking about the fact that those people are orders of magnitude richer than everyone else is a product of public policy, bought and paid for by those very same people.

        There’s every reason to have a smart conversation about whether government is responsible for defense, infrastructure, education, health care, retirement, etc. But once we’ve decided what we want out of our government, there’s also no question that we can afford to pay for it. We just don’t want to.

        • 0 avatar
          TW5

          You’ve simply not looked at the price tag of American entitlements. The Queen of England could give me national healthcare for $3,500 per capita. We spend about $4,000 per capita on public healthcare, and the benefits essentially cover 25% of the population. For pensions, other European nations have defined-contribution so the elderly have an economic interest in promoting their progeny. In the US, we use defined-benefit, which means the first gen to loot the system wins. The system of defined-benefit pension management we use for SS is actually outlawed in the private sector.

          If you want to lecture people about what is and isn’t affordable, a cursory glance at per capita government spending would be wise. Furthermore, the goal is to maximize per capita revenue with the lowest possible effective, not to see if we can exact revenge on some undesirable demographic (wealthy industrialist, hedge fund manageer, etc) with onerous marginal tax rates. This is America, not Europe. The plutocrats and the artisan bourgeois don’t engage in frivolous combat to satisfy the wayward moral sentiments of the peasantry.

          • 0 avatar
            smartascii

            There’s a difference between establishing public policy designed to effectively eliminate wealth through taxation and one which rewards wealth by creating loopholes and defining sources of income in order to reduce the effective tax rates of the top wealth accumulators. There’s also a middle ground. Focusing on per-capita spending is an interesting way to evaluate what our government is doing and what it costs, but it basically assumes that every capita can and should pay the same into the system and that business wealth shouldn’t be taxed at all. Yes, the Federal government spent about $11k per person last year, which sounds ludicrous, but if you treat GDP the same way, you find that Americans created $53k of wealth per capita. A tax policy absolutely can be created that fairly extracts 20% of GDP and pays our bills. Again, we just don’t want to.

  • avatar
    windnsea00

    Just put in an order for a new M3 and I am under 30, appears I am part of the group! Anyone want a very clean 997…

    • 0 avatar

      Congratulations on the new M3. If I were buying one new, I’d order too, and with European delivery. What options/colors did you go for, and do they have a tentative build or delivery date for you yet?

      • 0 avatar
        windnsea00

        Thank you! Didn’t have time to do Euro Delivery but I agree it’s a great option, and you save a good chunk of change.

        It’s mineral white on the sakhir orange interior with carbon fiber trim, 6-spd, adaptive suspension, 19 in. wheels, moonroof, harman kardon, and power rear sunshade.

        Should arrive by early May!

  • avatar
    tresmonos

    As a millennial, you don’t want me on your lawn, you want me building you Super Duty’s since you have a retirement horse/boat/5th wheel and like to spend the money you made on your investments by off shoring my generation’s blue collar jobs.

    • 0 avatar
      DeadWeight

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcKVgWYkZa4

    • 0 avatar
      nickoo

      Not just ours, everyone’s. Its not a generational thing. Its those who make money by having money vs those who must trade their labor for money. One of the most insulting lines ever uttered by a president was “jobs that Americans just won’t do” which really meant, jobs Americans won’t do for sub slave labor rates of compensation.

      • 0 avatar
        DeadWeight

        In the interim, Demublicans & Repocrats are both pushing for the latest & greatest H1B legislation to allow the importation of many more $10/hour code & script writers from India, Malaysia, Indonesia etc, because corporate tech money’s too tight.

        • 0 avatar
          highdesertcat

          They sure are. We just don’t have the smarts in America to fill many of these highly technical jobs calling for exceptional skills.

          And that gives credence to what Jonathan Gruber proclaimed to the world, that Americans are stupid.

          We have so many jobs unfilled in America that we have to import skilled and knowledgeable people to do them.

          And this is not even counting the low-paying dishwashing, meat packing and agricultural jobs being filled by ILLEGAL aliens.

          • 0 avatar

            So I thought, “Americans aren’t stupid, they just aren’t paying attention.” But then I thought, “They’re stupid for not paying attention.”

            Example, how many Americans think Liberals melted down the global economy by forcing banks to make risky mortgages? Its easier to believe that than to learn what a credit derivative is.

          • 0 avatar
            ClutchCarGo

            “We just don’t have the smarts in America to fill many of these highly technical jobs calling for exceptional skills”

            Nonsense. I do computer work (coding, report gen, data manipulation, etc.) and the last couple of my employers have actively tried to off-shore the kind of work I do. Not because there aren’t plenty of competent people to do the work, but because the cost structure looks appealing. If they could get away with bringing them here for the same wages and avoid the time shift problems they would do it in an instant. The irony is that they’ve been finding those foreign workers are cheaper but less productive.

          • 0 avatar
            DeadWeight

            Sadly, HDC doesn’t appreciate/realize that those grandchildren he (so justifiably) helps provide for and whose futures he is concerned about will have their futures sold up the Ganges River if they aren’t ultimately aren’t willing to work for Bangladesh prevailing wages, NWO and all that.

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            Dudes, if we Americans had the smarts to do all these high-tech jobs, we would not need to import people to do them.

            It’s one thing to import Los Brazeros at the onset of WWII to do our agrarian work for us in the fields while our boys were off to war.

            But Americans are too proud to do the jobs the 15 millions illegals in America are doing for us today.

            And we, in New Mexico, are helping them migrate to the Blue States as fast as we can give them Drivers Licenses and Bank Accounts.

            ——————–

            DW, I am merely stating the blatantly obvious here. Illegals and H1B are doing many of the jobs for us in America that we cannot fill.

            Just because there are SOME Americans smart enough to do SOME of the highly-technical jobs, does not make it so across the board. We have millions of job vacancies, right now.

            I could write a book on this, using only the experiences of me and mine over the decades past, but this is not the venue for that. I’ve commented extensively on the various money boards and financial chat rooms I frequent.

          • 0 avatar
            DeadWeight

            You keep missing the point.

            Why get a bachelor’s degree (or a more advanced degree) in Computer Science if the corporation employing you is perpetually trying to drive your wage down to parity (or even slightly more) than what a McDonald’s shift manager makes?

            Here’s an article you should read. If you do, ask yourself if the CEO of GenMet is reasonable or unreasonable (your opinion will tell all:

            http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/25/magazine/skills-dont-pay-the-bills.html

          • 0 avatar
            tresmonos

            HDC, illegals take those jobs as our lower class has been pacified with welfare to ignore the effects of globalization. My old mill village took to drugs when the mill closed in 2002 and now they are in the never ending cycle/circle of poverty. You better start paying your taxes to afford engineers and IT professionals because my paycheck disappearing over seas might unsettle the heard. Hurry up and die so I can buy all these lake houses and vacation homes when there is a housing glut when y’all disappear.

            I need cheap estate sale spoils to compliment my cheap boat acquired from a baby boomer upgrade.

          • 0 avatar
            tresmonos

            ClutchCarGo: there will always be work for hard working, competent people in this country.

            My little cousin resourced animation that he was in charge of for Viacom because he was more efficient, more skilled and did all the work a Chinese studio (army of animators) did for less. He beat the studios mean time to production to boot. He also eliminated clay-mation jobs with rapid prototype printers so he’s not a shining example of job creation.

          • 0 avatar
            tresmonos

            DW: I thought CS majors stayed out of IT until I went down south. It’s amazing how many over qualified people work in tech.

            HDC: the job openings right now are residual from companies who haven’t hired anyone since 2007.
            I got paid to come back to an OEM because they have a huge void of experienced professionals below the age of 33. Good for me, but awful for 90% of millennials.

          • 0 avatar
            Russycle

            There are plenty of smart Americans to take those tech job, but they won’t work for crappy wages and employers can’t hold the threat of terminating them and throwing them out of the country over their heads. H1B is a very unfunny joke.

          • 0 avatar
            mcs

            The companies that hire H1bs can find Americans to do the job. They just bring in the H1bs to drive down labor costs and claim they can’t find anyone.

            One of the funniest job postings I ever saw was for a pc repair tech where a PhD was listed as desirable. Wtf? So, gee, I’m guessing they couldn’t find any repair techs with PhDs in the US, but they were probably able to find someone offshore with a PhD able to program willing to repair PCs for a while just to get over here. It could have been an innocent mistake in the job posting, but I was suspicious.

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            DW, since you brought it up, you will be amused by the fact that my 23-yo grand daughter worked very hard to get her BS in Forestry (Horticulture/Watersheds).

            She even did a four-month work-study in Colorado’s Rocky Mountains that was contractually to terminate with a job offer of a GS-7/9/11/12 Career-conditional position.

            What she ended up getting was a GS-5 Temporary offer from that agency. HR told her that “The Sequester” was the reason they reneged on her contract.

            But it was their loss. There was major consternation when she declined the offer and her fellow work-study colleague did the same.

            So now she works for her great-grandfather. Before he moved back to Germany, they agreed that he would pay her $1000 a week, in cash, every Friday afternoon at 5 pm.

            Funny thing is, the State of New Mexico keeps calling her and writing to her, to place her in the foodstamps and free cell-phone program, and enroll her in Medicaid.

            She’s covered until age 26 on her dad’s healthcare policy, doesn’t need foodstamps, and has the latest and the greatest cell phone the business provides and pays for.

            And if you think she is an exception. She’s not. Lots of people provide for their kids, or pay them through their business.

            Oh and she is enrolled as a graduate student going for her Masters in Public Administration. I figure that should take her at least three years to achieve.

            Probably, she’ll be married to her young Air Force First Lieutenant long before then.

            ___________________

            Tres, the way things are done with houses bought by the business is to list several individual owners with rights of survivorship. That way the properties stay in the family for perpetuity, if they want, or they can all get together, sign Quit Claims, and sell the individual properties and divide the spoils. Pretty common practice with real estate.

            Fewer old people today are finding that they can sell their home and afford to buy a smaller one, so they “age in place.”

            I don’t care what my kids and grand kids do with the properties after my wife and I die.

            All we did, like so many other parents and grandparents in America today, is to help pave the way for our offspring to achieve some modicum of success based on their own merits, while not being encumbered with student debt, car loans or mortgages.

            My dad could not do that for me, but I could do it for my offspring. And I did. I’m not unique. I’m not special. Just pragmatic and realistic.

          • 0 avatar
            mkirk

            Nonsense. They want to import tech labor because it is cheaper then paying me. I had enough IT jobs offshored that I decided to come back in the Military and finish my time. Why pay a seasoned workforce of seasoned techs when you can grease some political wheels and import all of the cheap labor you want. The last place I was at has ironically brought the programming jobs back to the US because they were less productive. Funny how that whole less money=inferior product thing works.

            I’m in cyber-security now so I should be good for as long as I intend to work and I am going to cost more to come in and clean up the messes that those lacking products caused. Or I’ll just go work for the NSA or some such agency. If American’s don’t care about privacy going the way of the dinosaurs why should I not make a nice paycheck off of it.

  • avatar
    bumpy ii

    Millenials are the fastest-growing segment in auto lending in the same way that Mitsubishi is the fastest-growing seller of superminis in the US.

  • avatar
    haroldingpatrick

    Good for them. In other news, the sun will rise tomorrow. As an X’er who has 4 nieces and nephews of this generation, I am realistically optimistic for 2 of them. They are intelligent kids who went into a real trade/profession and are doing just fine for themselves. The third spent 5 years in college without getting anything but a Mrs degree. She better hope her husband stays smitten. The fourth, God bless him, just isn’t that smart and lives at home, working odd jobs that will never pay well. Hopefully he will see the light one day.

    Those that know what time it is in America will be fine, those who don’t will be poor. It’s a mean cold world but you can warm up by outrunning your neighbors. The problem is some folks can’t or won’t run fast enough for a piece of the pie.

  • avatar
    mkirk

    I remember when they said all of this crap about Gen-X and how we would ruin the country. Honestly, I look back at the Greatest Generation and they handed off a pretty nice place. It was thier kids…the boomers that wrecked the place. I have been in combat with millennials and when it hits the fan they do just fine. I think a lot of this crap the Millennials take is the Boomers shirking off the mess they left. They are the most self important generation ever always harkening back to the 60’s and what “they did” Thanks guys for taking the lessons you learned in Vietnam, running for office and shipping my generation off to Iraqistan you bunch of hypocritical pricks. Anyway, here’s hoping that 2016 is that generation’s swan song in politics. Maybe us Xers and the Millennials can clean this mess up. We really can’t F’ it up any worse than you guys

  • avatar
    -Nate

    ” I started feeling old when my favorite bands started breaking up.

    You mean like Spike Jones And His City Slickers ? . that was a sad day indeed .

    -Nate

  • avatar
    oldowl

    Anyone tired of being cranky? The photograph showing a now out-of-date Lyft mustache being held by two young women suggests having fun with self-employment in an industry requiring personal cars. Cars, people, cars.

  • avatar
    Drzhivago138

    I’m glad I had class today and missed this whole “discussion”.

  • avatar
    Chetter

    Comrades! The economy is humming along! All of our children have a bright future as useful citizens! Our youth is buying cars at a record pace!

    Crush the Tea Party extremists!

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