By on March 9, 2015

17FordRaptor_04_HR

Will there be a Silverado or Sierra ready to battle the Ford Raptor in Baja Valley anytime soon? Not quite, according to General Motors.

Edmunds says GM doesn’t have current plans to build a Raptor competitor, despite speculation that Chevrolet and GMC are working on such a beast as of this writing. The brands themselves also won’t confirm if the “Badlands” name filed in February with the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office is meant for a high-performance full-size off-road pickup.

Per GM global product development boss Mark Reuss, his company has the capital and a lot of priorties on the table, of which a Chevy/GMC Raptor is among the lowest in priority. Reuss added that he would not rule out such a thing, citing the Colorado ZR2 concept from the 2014 Los Angeles Auto Show as where GM may go if it so chose.

Meanwhile, Buick-GMC vice president Duncan Aldred had this to say about the “Badlands” name:

When you are looking at terms, or names and phrases, the first thing you do, even if it is a speck of an idea, you trademark the name because it can become a legal mine field. If someone says, “I like that,” you generally go for it and work out if you might use it later. We’ve probably got hundreds, if not thousands, of names (we) don’t use.

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53 Comments on “Reuss: Low Priority For Ford Raptor Competitor...”


  • avatar
    Hummer

    It doesn’t make much sense to build one, it would be an extreme case of “me-too!”. Ford has one, and they sell as good as you can expect for a $50k truck, GMs better off with a Wrangler competitor, there’s a lot more money to be bad had _if_ they can do it correctly.

    Not to mention GM trucks are the antithesis of masculine at the moment, and who wants that in a desert runner.

    • 0 avatar
      brkriete

      If by “as well as you can expect” you mean “dealers couldn’t keep them in stock even at above MSRP” you are correct.

      I doubt GM has a reasonable Wrangler competitor (convertible or semi-convertible; at least one solid axle) without a completely new or substantially reengineered platform that would only be used for a niche vehicle. They do however have plenty of pickup and full-size SUV expertise that would serve as a reasonable starting point for a Raptor competitor.

      • 0 avatar
        Hummer

        Maybe your dealers, the dealer down the road has had the same Raptor in stock for about 8 months now, he had two but got rid of one a month or two ago. Granted they may have dealer markup on them, but either way that doesn’t mean demand is strong enough to support a competitor.
        GM could compete and destroy Ford on price… Before they went an introduced midsize that would now be cannibalized by such an action.

        Of course GM doesn’t have an existing platform, but they have a pre-bankruptcy platform with 90% of the work complete to start at. Almost a ridiculous statement to make, why would you want an existing platform to be used when you look at the vehicles GM currently produces? There are many more wranglers sold than raptors, therefore more profit to be made competing with the wrangler.

        • 0 avatar
          Dave M.

          Jeep is iconic. GM’s Jeep-fighter won’t share in that benefit.

          The Hummer was a flash-in-the-pan “look how big and mean” dick-poser mobile that thankfully ran it’s course. I smirk now that the H2s and H3s have fully infiltrated the BHPH lots for the past few years.

          Jeep is still standing…the future Jeep-fighter will be a flash-in-the-pan as well once brand-boy or the me-toos have their fill.

          • 0 avatar
            Hummer

            Seeing how 08-09 H2s and H3Ts are holding 100% of there value for examples with low mileage I’m fairly certain the following is much larger than anything Saab has. There’s nothing different about the H2 and H3 than Jeeps non-wrangler offerings, except for the fact they can actually take abuse. The Halo vehicle is pretty damn iconic after seeing it on the news channel for 36 years now. Besides what usefulness did Saab bring to the table? It certainly wasn’t unique in the new millennium, whereas the same can’t be said about the offerings at Hummer. The H2 started at $48k, H3 started at $29k – 13 years and 10 years ago respectively, all those years after the first examples made it to the showroom where did you expect them to go? To the junkyard with worthless Saabs? You certainly seem to have a little inferiority complex there having to badmouth something without reason, maybe you just feel like you fit in with all the other haters? When’s your rally for the Porsche hate? Mercedes?

            Jeep has had no competitor that would actually give it a run for its money since the last Scout, no manufacturer has gone for an all out cheap fun offroader since that time. GM would be more than capable of taking the wrangler lunch if it was willing to actually take it on. Add a V8 to the equation, a lower starting price, and give it slightly more room, and GM would have a very good start.

        • 0 avatar

          When it comes out there will be built up demand because Ford is smart enough not to offer the Raptor every single year. Still in years we do sell them, we move about as many Nissan sells Titans. After the initial rush, we work deals as well as any other truck, but the rebates are normally less. Considering all the non-Raptor $50k trucks out there, I always thought they were a decent deal. Adding a few bits to an existing line would be more profitable per unit than bringing up a 10 year old platform to modern regs. Opening up a new line isn’t cheap either, so it would make it a bigger risk. Suspension, motor, and stickers are cheap.

          • 0 avatar
            Hummer

            That’s the thing, two companies selling similar products, it’s no longer unique, and it wears out the “cool” factor much quicker.
            BTW, what 10 year old platform are you referring to?

  • avatar
    Carlson Fan

    Good. Hopefully GM won’t waste time and money building something as worthless as a Raptor for the 99.9% of people who buy new pick-ups. Follow Ram’s lead and offer a diesel in your 1/2 ton twins.

  • avatar
    energetik9

    For disclosure, I’m not a truck guy and I’m not interested in trucks. But…this seems like a GM mistake to me. By all appearances from the outside and my observations, the Raptor is a bad [email protected]@ looking truck and seems to help the image of Ford and their pickups.

  • avatar

    It doesn’t seem like it would take a huge amount of money to upgrade the suspension and add some graffics to a Silverado. Even if they don’t sell a ton, it’s a good “halo” truck for their lineup and might bring some people into the dealership who will end up buying a cheaper truck.

    OTOH, maybe they should flip the other way and make a Lightning competitor. There’s a niche that nobody is going after, although I also suspect there is a lot less interest in superfast trucks than bro trucks.

  • avatar
    DenverMike

    GM is too busy chasing loss leaders to rake in the potential mountain of FREE money.

    The fullsize truck market is too enormous to not feed in all the specialty trucks you can. No brainer. No question.

    It’s cheap for the OEM and consumers are hungry for more high performance editions that are still priced well below the pimped out luxo trucks.

    Never mind collectors and overseas enthusiasts.

    It’s not really GM’s job to think up great new ideas anyway. They’ve never had a problem copying everyone else’s, and with great success, so why stop now?

  • avatar
    Mandalorian

    Bad move on GMs part. This is something they could do and it would be excellent and highly profitable.

    Take a 1500 Silverado, stuff in a 6.2L, an upgraded suspension, some offroad tires, some graphics/grille and it’s done.

    • 0 avatar
      DenverMike

      GM hates profits. Their fullsize trucks are what’s kept them in business over the decades and should be their #1 priority.

    • 0 avatar
      Carlson Fan

      GM prints money with every sale of a Tahoe, Suburban, Yukon, ect. I doubt they are all that concerned about the small potential profits from a Raptor copy. Maybe a way to earn some extra income at some point but probably not all that important to the financial well being of the company right now, Which is the just of Ruess’s comments.

      • 0 avatar
        DenverMike

        You could say the Raptor is Ford’s Corvette, and it outsold the C6 too.

        So why should Ruess be concerned with the Corvette either? It barely clears a profit if at all. No doubt a car company with its priorities all fukt up.

        A GM Raptor fighter would be no different than the ZL1 or Z28 Camaros. Why build those either?

        • 0 avatar
          Carlson Fan

          What your missing is that this just isn’t that big of a priority at GM because it isn’t gonna make or break the company one way or another. The Corvette has been around forever and it’s an iconic vehicle for GM so let’s not even bring that orange into a conversation about apples.

          You guys talk like building a Raptor clone is something GM could whip together in a few months. I took a look at the neighbors Raptor and what was underneath was pretty damn impressive. I suspect building a Raptor clone is a fairly big & expensive undertaking without a huge reward. A lot tougher to bring to market than a Z28 Camaro.

  • avatar
    ClutchCarGo

    “We’ve probably got hundreds, if not thousands, of names (we) don’t use”

    I thought that trademarks had to be used at least minimally in order to be preserved? I’ve heard of short runs of personal care and household products that get dumped to stores like Big Lots just to maintain a trademark that isn’t currently marketed.

    • 0 avatar
      DenverMike

      meant @Carsonfan – I didn’t say it was make/break. But GM has too many “breaks”, not enough “makes” as it is. Nor did I say it would come entirely for FREE R & D. But all of GM’s masterminds seem to be tied up with the loss leaders anyway.

      • 0 avatar
        Carlson Fan

        You know Mike, GM’s plan to have 3 different size trucks to offer the market is probably as good of a reason as any to why they aren’t building a Raptor clone right now. Whether or not it is the right or even a good decision, I guess we’ll just have to sit back, wait and see.

  • avatar
    Big Al from Oz

    I like the Raptor, I also like WRX’es and Ferrari’s. There’s one problem with the Raptor or a Raptor style vehicle. The attributes that make a pickup an attractive vehicle are removed. Payload and utility.

    It’s generally purchased to use as a “wank wagon”, for you guessed it wankers.

    Leave the Raptor to the hairdresser set that tend to buy them and drive them to Lowes and the mall to impress teenage kids and never use them as intended. They would sh!t themselves if they scratched the bed let alone the body.

    I do think Reuss is correct, why even build a Raptor competitor?

    If you want to improve a pickups off road capability I would buy a pickup that you want and take it to an off road specialist and improve the vehicle to do what you want.

    When the diesel Colorado is released it will be the basis for probably the best 4×4 pickup in the US. I know the Raptor can do a 0-60 much faster, but in an off road situation where can you do 6 second 0-60s?

    Where can you even do 60? Some desert track.

    If you want off road performance, buy a pickup and modify it yourself. We’ve been doing that for years, tailoring to you needs and wants.

    • 0 avatar
      wmba

      Raptors are bought by wankers – there’s BAFO’s official judgment.

      So there, all you pussy US purchasers. Become a hairdresser.

      A real man shaves only now and then, buys a diesel Colorado, squints his eyes against the blazing sun, hitches up a 20 tonne trailer and heads for Ayers Rock.

      BTW, BAFO, I think you get my record for incorrect use of apostrophes and incorrect pluralizations with that post. WRX’es? Ferrari’s? “a pickups ability”? You missed a chance for an actually needed apostrophe there, mate.

      Do try harder.

      • 0 avatar
        TrailerTrash

        Wait…what is all this hate, especially coming from you Canadians? Is there some sort of inferiority complex getting t you northern cousins?
        If so, relax and get over it.
        And since when are we supposed to judge cars and trucks by the boobs who buy them or how they use them as opposed to the real design and abilities of these vehicles?
        Look, the Raptor is one hell of a truck and off-roader. Regardless f the idiots who buy them.
        There is a reason Border Patrol uses them…and the purchasers and users for the Feds don’t give a damn the other losers who own them.
        Get over 9t, Canada.

        • 0 avatar
          Big Al from Oz

          @TrailerTrash,
          Your comment is correct.

          Many who buy a Raptor would not have the ability to use the Raptor’s off road capability.

          The same goes for many off roaders that are bought.

          I’d bet most who owned a 4×4 with hi-lo, in other words a real 4×4 would not have the ability to maximize their vehicles potential, or if they tried they would destroy them.

          4x4s aren’t indestructible, but they can offer fantastic opportunities to challenge your skills.

          Just a base model 4×4 pickup will do probably more than what most who buy a Raptor would ever use them for.

          The Raptor is a fantastic open desert runner. That’s what it was primarily designed for. That’s why they are used by the US’es Border Patrol.

          They are used a specific tool for a specific job, not just cruising malls and driving to work.

        • 0 avatar
          Lou_BC

          @TrailerTrash – Big Al from Oz isn’t Canadian.

          “Oz” – maybe you need to google that word.

          what @wmba said is known as sarcasm.

          • 0 avatar
            Big Al from Oz

            @Lou_BC,
            Boy, I would rather be French than a Quebecistanian ;)

            The 20 tons is a lie and a sarcastic retort from wmba.

            The truth is a Ranger which is the same as my BT50 towed a 360 000lb steam engine! Not a measly 20 tons or 40 000lbs.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            @Big Al from Oz – one needs to understand Canadian history to get a feel for Québécois sentiments. That is no different than understanding First Nations sentiments.

            The Raptor is a halo vehicle. Most who buy it won’t use any of its engineering. That is no different than a guy who buys a Ferrari.

            I used to have a sport bike. Guys/gals would see me get off of it and ask me two question in rapid succession:
            1. How fast does it go?
            260
            2. How fast you get it up to?
            260

            Not everyone is a poser but you can’t pose with a Beetle sporting a Lambo body.

          • 0 avatar
            Big Al from Oz

            @Lou_BC,
            I don’t think a 40 000 vehicle a year would quite fit into the halo category.

            It’s a F-150, far from halo.

            Does it make a loss?

            Not a halo vehicle. Like HSVs they aren’t halo vehicles and they sell less than 40 000 a year.

    • 0 avatar
      DenverMike

      @BAFO – You miss the point of buying a turnkey specialty. Or why not get a 2wd and add 4×4 yourself? Or gas and swap in a diesel?

      If you want what the Raptor features from the aftermarket/ custom fab, and don’t happen to have the tools/shop, you’d be out at least $100,000 total. And you’d end up destroying all its resale value too. Kinda stup!d right? Right.

    • 0 avatar
      Lou_BC

      @Big Al from Oz – lately you have been saying that towing and hauling don’t matter……. at least in relation to Ram and especially in relation to the ecodiesel.
      You say most buyers of 1/2 tons don’t tow or haul and are SUV alternatives.

      WTF?

      So it NOW matters in relation to the Raptor? but not a diesel powered Ram? or 50% of 1/2 ton buyers?

      Truth be told the Raptor has similar cargo ratings to that of the full bling Ecodiesel 4×4 crew long box 4×4 but has close to 10k tow ratings which is almost 3k more.

      • 0 avatar
        Big Al from Oz

        @Lou_BC,
        I disagree with your comment.

        I do state that the Raptor suits “wanna be” off roaders. This clearly fits into my belief that 75% of US pickups are car/SUV alternatives.

        Also, like any vehicle, as it becomes more specialized as in the case of the Raptor, a great sand dune/desert runner it will lose other attributes, hence reducing it’s utility.

        Currently the best US made all round off roader is the VM 2.8 CRD, long wheelbase, 4 door, Wrangler. The US doesn’t receive this vehicle.

        A close second is the Colorado with the V6. When the diesel Colorado is released it will be the best all round off roader made in the US, it has to be as it’s one of the best midsize pickup off roader outside of the US.

        For far less money than a Raptor a diesel Colorado with a good suspension kit will have it for breakfast in many off road situations. Size kills the Raptor off road, it excels at wide open dunes and desert condition.

        It’s still a very nice vehicle. But I wouldn’t buy one as a off roader, I’ll leave that to the hairdresser set who seem to mainly use them to cruise malls.

        Many who buy a Raptor would cringe if they scratched the bed let alone scrape a branch down the length of the pickups side.

        I have yet to see a Raptor that looks as if it has tackled anything tougher than a driveway.

        • 0 avatar
          DenverMike

          @BAFO – No different than the Raptor, most Wranglers never see any kind of dirt until the 2nd+ owner, especially the Rubicon. But your idea of the extreme off roading means mudding, sand traps, steep loose-soil trails a rock climbing. The Raptor can do OK there, but it’s a high-speed desert runner. And it’s possibly the best all-around off roader, all things considered.

          • 0 avatar
            Big Al from Oz

            @DiM,
            Really?

            I do think you are talking bullsh!t again.

            I’d be a far higher of percentage of new Wranglers are used off road in the US than new Ruptors.

            Little one, you do tend to speak with forked tongue. How did you develop this trait. Genetic?

          • 0 avatar
            DenverMike

            @BAFO – There’s not a more hairdresser and lifestyle induced new car purchase on the planet than the Wrangler. Come back to Earth.

          • 0 avatar
            Mandalorian

            How many guys buy sports cars just to cruise around the Country Club in? They never drive on the BurgerPoopRing or on the track or probably above 95mph.

            I fail to see how owning something like a Raptor and not taking it off-road/towing every second of every day is any different.

            Personally, I’d rather have my vehicle MORE capable than what I actually need. No strain no struggle.

          • 0 avatar
            Big Al from Oz

            @Mandalorian,
            The Raptor is more capable at what on the road? It’ suspension isn’t the best for on road drivng.

            I have yet to see a road in the US that requires a Raptor. I’ve seen some quite poor roads.

            At least with a car you can actally state that the vehicle’s handling will make for a “better” vehicle.

          • 0 avatar
            CoastieLenn

            BAFO-

            It seems to me that you’re of the firm mindset that one should only purchase a vehicle if they can/will use it to it’s full capabilities. The simple thought that people will buy what they want, regardless of how much they’ll actually use it for it’s intended purpose completely baffles you.

            Also, your judgement of Jeeps is completely false. Here in the US… you know- where the Jeep was born, embraced, bred and spread from- the Wrangler is purchased more in Unlimited form with 4 doors and an automatic transmissions by females with children as a minivan alternative almost 2x more frequently than in 2 door MTX trim by males that will also never take them off road. This of course, doesn’t account for the even more minisqule percentage of males (or females for that matter) that will purchase it and actually take it off road.

            The Wrangler is quickly becoming the market leader in CUV/Minivan alternatives and FCA is totally embracing it.

            So, if I buy a Wrangler Unlimited with leather, nav, backup camera, and heated steering wheel ($49,535 USD+ for a Rubicon Hard Rock with dual top package and UConnect in SC currently), does that vehicle come under your same scrutiny? It should.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            @Mandalorian – agree 100%.

            We buy what we want. If actual need was the prime metric we’d all be driving around in Yaris’s or would that be Yarii?

            If I had the disposable income (read no kids) I’d buy a Raptor before a performance car because I’d use its capabilities quite frequently.

          • 0 avatar
            Big Al from Oz

            @CoastieLenn,
            It’s great to see another new name I have yet to witness on TTAC, or anywhere.

            And yet you call me BAFO. So your are a f#ckwit troll.

            A study by FCA stated that 40% all new Wrangler customers use their vehicle off road.

            If you want to troll TTAC isn’t the site for you.

          • 0 avatar
            Big Al from Oz

            @Lou_BC,
            Your comment is quite truthful.

            I even bought a vehicle I don’t need.

            What peeves me is the “excuses” people come up with to justify why they buy a particular vehicle.

            So far it appears the most who lack sincerity regarding why they buy a particular vehicle are the pickup fraternity.

            You see the comments all the time. I bought it to tow. Tow what? I have a four wheel drive pickup to off road. Where?

            You then read the same peoples’ comments and all they discuss is 0-60 times and pure performance numbers.

            So, why do people choose a pickup overall?

            Like me. I bought a pickup because I wanted it and I can afford it. In other words I can.

            There are really no excuses for a pickup if you don’t own a business other than business use it’s a lifestyle enhancer.

            Actually most commenters on TTAC have toys. They bought their vehicles because they can.

            Do they require the capabilities? Not really.

            Most vehicles in our modern societies are toys and beyond our needs.

            I love it that way.

            But the people have to start to be honest why they have a vehicle, instead of spinning sh!t to either impress or justify.

            People talk of pickups as it they are trucks and tow and carry loads, etc. Maybe 25% do if you are lucky.

          • 0 avatar
            CoastieLenn

            Wow… sensitive, are we? I wasn’t being disrespectful about your name, I simply abbreviated it. If someone abbreviated my name to CL, I certainly wouldn’t get my panties twisted. Different strokes….

            Also, I didn’t realize that there were tenure requirements for addressing members that have been commenting longer than I have. Sorry, two years is not long enough I guess.

            Lastly, you have a fantastic way of dancing around a legitimate question for which you apparently have no clear answer for. Resulting to personal insults and childish internet ninja-dom will not mask your apparent unfounded hatred toward a truly capable truck.

            WOULD YOU JUDGE SOMEONE WHO PURCHASED A $50K JEEP WRANGLER BUT NEVER TOOK IT OFF ROAD? I think not. You don’t like the IDEA of the Raptor.

  • avatar
    TrailerTrash

    Top Gear had fun last week on the show. Really impressive IF used for what it is supposed.
    No…not your everyday high schooler’s cowboy/cowgirl wannabe pick up truck. A bit over-kill.
    However…IF I had a large ranch and lots of open field duty…this would be a fine tool to have.
    And this is perhaps why it is sooo demanded for border patrol use. It is an off-road monster.

    • 0 avatar
      Lou_BC

      @TrailerTrash – that episode was with a Hennessey VelociRaptor. Add 30k to the price of a standard Raptor. The other truck was a Silverado diesel which is around 75k in Canada. That Raptor is probably 110k in Canada.

      It was typical Top Gear. They said winter but from what I saw most likely late fall beginning of winter. The creeks that he was playing in were not frozen over. -10C isn’t very cold and there wasn’t a lot of snow on the ground. That part of British Columbia where the show was shot gets a lot of snow. Both trucks would of got stuck 10 feet out the parking lot if it was mid-winter.

      • 0 avatar
        TrailerTrash

        yes…so?
        I understand it was a hopped up version.
        It was still fun. Typical Top Gear over the top exaggeration…but funny.
        My point is about the Raptor and what it is meant/designed for.
        I don’t watch for real information. Trash TV at its best.
        Late Fall??? It was up on top of a high mountain. The time of year was irrelevant, as far I as I can tell.

        • 0 avatar
          energetik9

          I saw that Top Gear episode. I don’t care what variant of Raptor it was; it was impressive to me.

        • 0 avatar
          Lou_BC

          TrailerTrash – I was adding to your comment based on my experience.

          Yes it was fun to watch but highly scripted.

          Any 4×4 pickup with good tires would of made that same trip at that time of the year. I’ve been in similar conditions multiple times.

  • avatar

    I normally tell people not to hate vehicles just because of the inconsiderate people that drive them. But…I *hate* Raptors, like…with a passion. And it’s entirely because of the people that drive them, and the way they’re typically driven. A Rapptor nearly took me out on the icy highway last week because he was in such a hurry that he tried to overtake me at 20 mph over what everyone else was doing, and lost control. So to hear that GM isn’t too interested in pursuing this segment, I’m relieved, honestly. The last thing we need is more of these factory-sanctioned toolmobiles on the road.

    • 0 avatar
      Lou_BC

      Kyree S. Williams – people think that 4×4 pickups are safer and more capable in the winter. Put the same moron in a more capable F150 Raptor and that perception is amplified. There was a good discussion on the taillight story about feeling safe. The more safe you feel the less safe you will behave.

      Why blame the truck when it was the idiot inside. The biggest pricks on the road that I encounter are guys in brodozers.

  • avatar
    Lou_BC

    “BadLands” – perhaps that name is going to Cadillac ;)

    I’d like to see a ZR2 Colorado but not a more expensive Raptor fighter. GM should build the ZR2 Colorado and then build a modified Duramax as a hardcore offroader.

    I see way more modified diesel pickups than gasser so it makes more sense to target that market. The Power Wagon is a ripe target for a Duramax powered 4×4. The current PowerWagon has a 1500lb capacity and 10k towing coupled with typically poor mpg of a gas powered HD. A true HD offroader would sell well.

    • 0 avatar
      Hummer

      The PowerWagon can’t get a diesel because the required cooling equipment goes where the factory winch is at, additionally not many people want an extra 600lbs over the front end.

      The 6.4 doesn’t do terrible on fuel, averaging 14 with the 6.4 from what owners say is a normal day.

      • 0 avatar
        Lou_BC

        @Hummer – the Cummins HD also has different axles. Spring rates needed to hold up the Cummins would kill any articulation advantage. The thing is most people would not miss the loss of articulation. The location of the intercooler is just an easy excuse for Ram since I see Cummins HD’s quite commonly with aftermarket winches and bumpers.
        I rarely ever see Power Wagons. If they were as great as Ram fans say they are I’d see them all over my part of the world. I’ve only seen 2 as work trucks and the one was pathetically overloaded. I’ve only seen a few that looked like they actually saw offroad use.
        PickupTrucksdotcom estimated that Ram only sold 500 crewcab PowerWagons so that fits with my comment of not seeing many around.

        GM would easily outshine Ram with a Duramax based offroader. The Raptor is just too popular a target for GM to go after. Ram has closed in on GM so a halo HD truck makes sense on that front as well.

        Like I said, a Colorado ZR2 and Duramax HD ZR2 would be the way to go.

  • avatar
    Carilloskis

    How many of you raptor haters know anyone who owns a raptor and what they do with them? Most I’ve met take theirs off road, the bro dozer crowd normaly cannot stomach the milage penalty for to long and end up selling gently used raptors to people like me who use the $&!t out of them. The gray fenders on my truck are all scratched up but I’ve never encountered a place where my truck didn’t fit. Also most of us owners have the means to use a car was to clean our trucks normaly within a day of coming back from an outting. As for over taking in the snow and ice I do it all the time I run studded winter tires in the winter and am going to get where I’m going at a reasonable speed. If your going on I 80 through Wyoming in your accord at 40 mph and the speed limits 80mph I will pass you at 40 mph diffrence. The raptors wide track helps with stability. The problem occurs when self righteous pricks think they need to go 30 under in the left lane instead of the 40 under that other people in inferior vehicles are doing and cut off some one going the speed limit. I wish I could up load some pics or videos of the places that I have taken my raptor off road to show you what your average owner does with their trucks.

    • 0 avatar
      CoastieLenn

      “How many of you raptor haters know anyone who owns a raptor and what they do with them?”

      This is the internet. Everyone either “knows all the praise points and downfalls of everything”, or “knows someone who’s owned everything”… whether they actually do or not.

      Most people hating on this truck simply hate the *idea* of this truck and the type of clientele it could attract. Merits of the truck be damned.

      Buncha internet know-it-alls.

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