By on February 27, 2015

2009_Saturn_Sky_Redline_Ruby_Red_Limited_Edition

So I’m driving along the other day, and I get up behind a Saturn Relay. For those of you who aren’t familiar with this vehicle, imagine a minivan with 1992-era styling and a 1994-era interior and 1996-era switchgear, except it inexplicably came out in 2005. Seriously: it was the kind of thing where, when it debuted, you checked both sides of the van just to make sure General Motors knew everyone was doing dual sliding doors now.

So anyway, as I’m sitting behind the van, I realized something: there isn’t a single Saturn I would buy. Not the awful S-series models, which were great in the 1990s, but have about as much modern relevance as Palm Pilot. Not the L-Series, which came later, and looked worse, and transformed Saturn from a cute, cool, forward-thinking car company into the kind of thing your middle school gym teacher drove. Not the Astra, not the Vue, not the Relay. No Saturn at all.

And then I remembered the Sky. Do you remember the Sky? This was right near the end of Saturn, when General Motors realized that by God, if we’re going to stay out of bankruptcy, we’d better come up with some cars that people will actually buy. So they developed the SSR.

But they also developed the Sky and the Pontiac Solstice, which were these cool little roadsters that had two-seats, and rear-wheel drive, and eventually a 260-horsepower turbocharged engine which made them surprisingly enjoyable on the road. I loved these things, and I especially loved the Sky, which still looks like an exotic sports car when you see it all these years later.

So maybe there are some Saturns I would buy, but by God there aren’t any Mitsubishis. I mean seriously: you have that electric thing shaped like the egg, God only knows what it’s called, but there are a bunch of lowercase “i”s as if it’s an Apple product. You have a couple of SUVs, all of which are indistinguishable from one another. There’s the Mirage, which is generally agreed to be the worst car on sale; equivalent to a laundry basket on wheels, when it comes to driving dynamics. And maybe there’s a sedan or something, I don’t know.

So all this got me thinking: is Mitsubishi the car company whose products I would least like to own? I mean, does Mitsubishi really manufacture the fewest vehicles I would actually purchase for myself? And I thought, and I thought, and I thought, and I briefly considered Dodge until I remembered the Viper, and I thought some more, and I thought, and I thought, and then I remembered I am trying to hit a word count here so I thought thought thought thought some more, and then in the end, I reached the conclusion that by God, yes, Mitsubishi is the brand whose cars I’d least like to own, at least ever since Plymouth came to an end.

And so now I pose the question to you: whose cars would YOU least like to own?

And before you answer, I think a rule clarification is necessary. We aren’t talking about all-time automakers here. You can’t say Edsel, or AMC, or some obscure car brand that only existed in the 1920s and manufactured cars out of satin. I’m talking modern, current, presently existing automakers that make modern, current, presently existing vehicles that comply with at least some of the federal government’s safety regulations.

And so, ladies and gentlemen, the floor is yours: which automaker makes the most cars you’d never buy? Which brand has so few desirable products that you’d never consider one of their vehicles? Which car company is so mediocre that you’d never set foot in their showroom?

And why is it Mitsubishi?

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253 Comments on “Question Of The Day: What Brand Has The Most Cars You’d Never Buy?...”


  • avatar
    Brian E

    Are we going by brand or by dealer? If the former, Toyota. I can’t think of a single one I’d want to buy; the only exception at Toyota dealers would be the Scion-branded FR-S.

    • 0 avatar
      raph

      Same here

      • 0 avatar

        Toyota, no hate but no desire. It does a lot well to be so bland, and that isn’t an insult. I’ve drive a few Camry/Corolla and they are great for the market they are aimed at…which isn’t most of us. They are great if you never push them. I miss the Supra. The big pickup is OK, but I’m not in that market.
        Nissan, save the GT-R. A great car. Shame it won’t trickle down.
        GM-I could see buying a Vette, or the SS sedan-short list….not much else. There is hope for Caddy.
        Mitsu ? They still here ?

    • 0 avatar
      JohnTaurus_3.0_AX4N

      Im with ya, Brian, wouldnt consider ANY new Toy/Lex/Sci. Id actually buy a BRZ over the FR-S, just so I wouldnt have to wade my way through a sea of 2008 Camrys being sold as 2015 models to get to it.

    • 0 avatar
      derekson

      Toyota was the first thing to jump in my head as well (along with Lexus and Scion, we can just include the whole company rather than he one brand).

      • 0 avatar
        MBella

        My initial reaction was also Toyota, but thinking about it, there might be a time where a Toyota would be the right car. There are reasons they sell as many cars as they do, and sometimes life brings you into that position. Writing this, I also realized that I’ve already owned a Corolla that I bought to flip. Mitsubushi still makes the Evolution. Right now, it would probably be VW. Been there, done that, and I can’t think of a situation where buying one would be a good idea.

        • 0 avatar
          jim brewer

          “and sometimes life brings you to that position” Sometimes as in “all the time”

          Life is not a series of track days and windy roads like in the car commercials.

          I think I share the impulse about Toyota, but not many regret their decision to buy one. I suggest that that customer satisfaction is not totally a reflection of the utilitarian value of the cars.

          Toyota traditionally offered a bit more zip for z bit less mileage. Not as true now as it used to be, but still…So, I think there’s enough interssting things about them to entertain the average driver.

    • 0 avatar
      VW16v

      Same here. Buying a Toyota = giving up on life. Even with those amazing steering wheel buttons.

      • 0 avatar
        30-mile fetch

        “Buying a Toyota = giving up on life”

        Or it could mean you prioritize other things in life than your car.

        Or you did your research and can see they still offer top-tier reliability ratings and decent resale value and are therefore a left-brain approach to transportation costs.

        Or you like to take your family sedan to the track and have discovered that a 4 cylinder Camry SE is a better drive than the Accord, Passat, and 6.

        • 0 avatar
          VW16v

          The Camry SE suspension needs a bit of work. It rides harsher then any of the sedans you mentioned without actually handling as well as those sedans you mentioned. The salesmanship of the Camry sells the Camry, Period. And it comes in last place against those sedans you mentions in almost every comparo test.

          • 0 avatar
            30-mile fetch

            According to the resident author, the Camry SE does handle as well as those sedans, but it was more of a playful reference.

            “The salesmanship of the Camry sells the Camry, Period”

            If cracking the sales success code of a major automotive segment were as simple as you seem to think it is, perhaps one of the largest auto companies in the world wouldn’t be struggling to move Passats.

          • 0 avatar

            Well it doesn’t. Not in Europe at least or some other parts of the world. Actually this is a very interesting segment in which the cars that sell in the US don’t in Europe or elsewhere, while the cars that sell in Europe don’t in the US. FWIW, selling in the US in this segment is probably a good thing. Seems to be that this segment is much larger in the US than anywhere else.

    • 0 avatar
      bd2

      Pretty much start with the Camry, Corolla and Yaris (add in the Venza as basically a wagon version of the Camry).

      The Avalon is the best Toyota sedan, but it does one thing poorly which upscale full-size sedans should do well (have a compliant ride).

      The Toyota CUVs and SUVs are better in comparison, but there are a good no. of better choices there as well.

      Nissan used to be my favorite Big 3 Japanese brand (while not Big 3, Mazda is now the fave) but they have really missed with their sedans as well – Versa (hatch is so much better), Sentra and Altima (which used to be great).

      But their new CUVs are very nice – Rogue, Murano and Pathfinder and the upcoming Maxima looks promising.

      • 0 avatar
        CooperS

        Have you sat in a new Avalon? The front seats are hard and the leather seams are all in the wrong spots. I toured the Kentucky factory a couple years ago. Built on the same line as the Camry. But the Camry has better front seats.

        • 0 avatar
          bd2

          OK – the Camry has better seats, but that’s about it.

          Frankly, Toyota bungled the Camry, Avalon and ES (which has repeatedly been bested by the older LaCrosse in comparison tests).

  • avatar
    Jim Broniec

    Mitsubishi wins. Hands down. Got stuck with a Mirage as a rental last year. A brand new car – which immediately transported me to 1998. It was weird and terrible. Making matters worse, the car (with less than 10K miles) blew a tire while I was in the second from the left lane (of six lanes) on the 101 en route to a customer.

    Second place for me goes to VW. It’s just something I never understood or got, and is completely based on personal opinion.

    Last, but not least least, would be Subaru. And they’re great cars. They ride well, they sell well, they’re easy to live with. They’re really popular with all of my thirty-something kid-laden social circle. But.. they’re not for me.

    • 0 avatar
      kmoney

      Yup, definitely Mitsu. If you think the interior and driving dynamics transported you to 1998, don’t look at the mechanicals, as it would warp you back another 10 years. Analysts have been saying their business is on life support in Canada (and from the lone dealer I see around here, I don’t disagree), so I’ve also little faith in their 10-year warranty.

    • 0 avatar
      JohnTaurus_3.0_AX4N

      I agree. Its sad to think that when they were selling the Mighty Max truck and the earlier Montero they were my favorite Japanese brand. Id still snap up a 90s Mighty Max if I come accross one.

  • avatar
    2drsedanman

    Subaru, because I don’t think I could live with a car that is harder on oil than it is on gas.

    • 0 avatar
      ClutchCarGo

      Ditto, based mostly on personal experience. I’ve owned 2 Subarus over the years, and I had more trouble (real trouble, like engine won’t start) with those than any other vehicle I’ve owned, including the ’94 Ford Tempo I bought for my wife. As a result, there isn’t a single model or year that I would own.

      • 0 avatar
        Ryoku75

        Don’t forget their famous headgasket issues!

      • 0 avatar
        JohnTaurus_3.0_AX4N

        The Ford Tempo was actually a very reliable car for the most part. The 2.3L was based off the old Inline 6, so durability was baked in from the start. The 3.0L V-6 is likewise a very durable and long lasting engine. The 2.0L diesel supplied by Mazda in the early years…not so much.

        When something does go bad on a Tempo, the parts are insanely cheap.The most common issue is motor/trans mounts. I think I paid $8 for the last trans mount I bought.

        Ive had a Tempo from every year it was manufactured, except 1986 (but I did have two 87s, so I suppose that counts lol). I beat the absolute hell out of my 92 V-6, it took a lot more abuse than most any other FWD car could handle. The worst part about the cars, imo, was the non-overdrive automatics, but its not like they were the only cars to be saddled with such. The Corolla/Prizm and Dodge/Plymouth Neon were still rocking 3 speeds into the late 1990s, well after Tempo was retired.

        • 0 avatar
          ClutchCarGo

          I only mentioned the Tempo since it’s pretty much the least desirable car I’ve ever owned. We needed something in a pinch after her previous car was knocked out of service in an accident, and the Tempo was an easy get. It did yeoman service for many years, tho I had to force the salesman to take it in trade for a pittance when I bought the follow on car, a true sign of its undesirability.

        • 0 avatar
          Ryoku75

          “Ive had a Tempo from every year it was manufactured”

          You seriously have too much time on your hands.

          • 0 avatar
            NoGoYo

            I fell out of a Tempo as a child when the child safety door lock that was supposed to keep me from opening the door failed at its one job.

            That kinda colored my opinion of the thing forever.

  • avatar
    heavy handle

    I can’t think of a Nissan I’d want. The GT-R is a video game on wheels, not my style. Maybe the Juke Nismo would be acceptable if they could make the interior better.

    Hyundai/Kia is a close second on that list. Not impressed with the whole “it’s not as good as the competition, but you save ten bucks up front” You’ll lose thousands at resale, so what’s the point?

  • avatar
    bunkie

    Subaru. I know people love them. I have a good friend who loves his. But there is something so damned 1980s Japanese about them that I just can’t take them seriously. And then there is the advertising, a series of ads that I absolutely loathe (with the sole exception of the dog family ad).

    On a side note, Subaru engines became a somewhat popular choice in home-built aircraft. But I wouldn’t touch an aircraft with a Subaru with a ten foot pole. Prices reflect this. An RV-9 with a Lycoming is easily a $75-90K airplane. With a Subaru, they are under $50K (based upon current asking prices on Barnstormers.com). Since you can buy a decent Lycoming clone for $22K (or a good mid-time used Lycoming for even less), people don’t even want to go through the trouble of converting one.

  • avatar
    MR2turbo4evr

    hyundai/kia

  • avatar
    cimarron typeR

    Im not so down on Mitsu.,my impression of their SUVs are that they’re Third World tested ,maybe I watch too much homeland.There were quite a few running around Manilla when I visited though.They have the worst roads Ive ever seen.
    I wouldn’t buy an Acura.Their styling direction is bland and dynamically indifferent. They used to be the. Goto brand for fwd sport luxury.With the downward creep of the German 3 id say they’re in trouble.

    • 0 avatar
      heavy handle

      The problem with hating on Mitsu is that we only get to see them at their worse in the US. They have a bigger and more interesting lineup in the rest of the world.

  • avatar
    pbxtech

    Chevy, some of their vehicles are close, I want GM to succeed, but what a crappy dealer network (at least in Illinois.) What about that corporate nose? Did they not see what happened to Acura and Mazda with the goofy front end? Doug you got me off on a rant again, I hope you’re happy. I would go buy a Volt used tomorrow if I could trust those idiots to not screw me every time I took it in for service (no I don’t need nitrogen in my tires you idiots.)

    • 0 avatar
      Fred

      Agree. My 2 trucks were unreliable. Nothing appeals to me, not even the new Corvette.

    • 0 avatar
      mjz

      I agree about the Chevy two tier grill design. Hate it. I thought they were going in a new direction when the new Impala, and refreshed Traverse were introduced. They have a cleaner VW kind of look. But unfortunately it appears they are going back to the two tier design. Bad move.

      • 0 avatar
        Sixray

        I’ve always thought the Holden marque has always had the best styling out of any of the GM brands. I’m surprised they don’t just bring the Aussie front clips here, they are so much better looking. The Commodore-based Caprice PPV is the best looking sedan in the GM line in my opinion, I’d love to drive a civilian one with a little more upscale interior.

  • avatar
    scr1313

    I agree with Subaru and Mitsubishi but for me the top would be Toyota based on how big there lineup is compared to the other 2 and how boring a car company they are

  • avatar
    87 Morgan

    Mazda, Kia, Mitsubishi,,Hyundai.

    Mostly none of these folks have a product that appeals to me, other than Mitsubishi they just need to go away. With that said, Mitsubishi does help a lot of people who don’t have the resources or Fico score tiet a new car. Which in the end does fill a niche that needs to be served/filled.

    • 0 avatar
      SC5door

      I’m sorry but low FICO score is not a reason to keep a car company around. And with Hyundai/KIA employing more people than Mitsu here in the US, they’re the last ones that need to leave.

  • avatar
    eggsalad

    +1 on Mitsubishi

    And it kind of makes me sad. I rather like the Outlander Sport. It’s quite handsome (when I’ve seen one on the street, which is rare). It’s one of a tiny handful of CUV available with a manual transmission, and the price is quite nice. I’d buy that vehicle in a heartbeat if it had ANY other badge on it.

  • avatar
    This Is Dawg

    Chrysler. In my mind they just make a bunch of minivans. I’d say Mitsubishi as well, but I can’t stop loving the Evo.

    I know I’m not their target demographic, but Mercedes’ blingmobiles do nothing for me either.

  • avatar
    cimarron typeR

    Im not so down on Mitsu.,my impression of their SUVs are that they’re Third World tested ,maybe I watch too much homeland.There were quite a few running around Manilla when I visited though.They have the worst roads Ive ever seen.
    Right now I wouldn’t buy an Acura.It used to be the go to brand for sporty fwd luxury.They’ve lost their styling direction and dynamically indifferent.Lots of options available for like/Less money,especially given the downward creep of the German 3.

  • avatar
    Quentin

    I’d say I’m like most people in that I have my preferred brands and I generally stick with them. All other brands would be under the “never buy” because I feel like my preferred brands pretty much cover all the segments that I’d ever be interested in buying. I’d be easier to list the brands that I would purchase than one that I wouldn’t.

    Subaru, Volkswagen, MINI, BMW, Toyota, Scion, Lexus, Acura, Honda, Jeep, Lotus, and Mazda are brands I’d consider buying. They either offer reliability/practicality (Toyota, Lexus, Honda, Acura, maybe Subaru but I’m not crazy about their move to CVTs) or have cars that I have a history of loving (WRX, BRZ, GTI, MCS, M3/3series, MR2, 4Runner, Land Cruiser, FR-S, IS350, S2000, Wrangler, Elise, Miata).

    As far as the practical cars that are meant to do be an A to B type car, I think my preferred brands have good options for those segments. Honda and Toyota cover my bases pretty well for a family sedans or utility vehicles.

    When I’m just looking at my own personal cars that don’t have to be a jack of all trades, nostalgia and personal bias play a big part. I’m not a Mustang or Camaro guy. They are potent but they just aren’t me. I couldn’t see myself getting into one every day. I like more of the S2000/Miata/FR-S/BRZ type car even though they are slower for similar money. Give me an M3 over a more powerful Merc or Caddi. I like cumbersome onroad, great offroad BOF SUVs like the Wrangler, 4Runners, and Land Cruisers of pretty much all generations but don’t really care for Xterras, Tahoes, etc. GTI and WRX all day… but I just don’t care for the FoST. A lot has to do with familiarity and nostalgia.

  • avatar
    bucksnort

    GM….same bad management, same bad engineering, same bad workers….nothing has changed.

  • avatar
    7th Frog

    I get infatuated with some things they make once in a while, but I don’t think I could ever pull the trigger on a Ford.

  • avatar
    APaGttH

    Fiat – surprised no one has mentioned Fiat

    • 0 avatar
      heavy handle

      That’s because the question is “which brand has the most.”
      Fiat only has two models, soon three. There’s gotta be another brand that offers three or more models you wouldn’t buy.

      Same with Mini, they only offer two models (and fifty million variations), which lots of people probably can’t tell apart.

    • 0 avatar
      MBella

      I can’t believe I didn’t think of it. Yes, I wouldn’t own any current Fiat branded product under just about any circumstance.

    • 0 avatar
      bosozoku

      Not even a 500 Abarth? It’s not the greatest thing on four wheels, but it’s a lot of fun for the money.

  • avatar
    CoreyDL

    Can’t believe nobody has mentioned my two.

    Fiat! There is nothing they sell in America that I’d ever be interested in driving or caught dead buying. The 500 was cool for about 25 minutes, but it’s too cutesy and too small. And their other things are just crap made in Turkey or wherever. And their quality is abysmal. No desire there for me.

    Mini! The original Mini Cooper was a-okay in the early 2000’s, with retro-love-me-UK styling etc etc Austin Powers TV shows Italian Jobs. But since then it’s aged, bloated, and got more and more derpy looking. It got so bad that it decided to have a bunch of less desirable children, with reduced function but similar pricing. Oh, and none of them are particularly reliable either. Mini is a complete no-go for me. I have never considered even wanting one.

  • avatar
    Mandalorian

    Hyundai/Kia. They make the MOST vehicles I’m not going to buy. Sure, I’m not going to buy a Fiat, but they only make 1/2 models.

    Koreans cars just don’t do it for me.

  • avatar
    mikey

    @bucksnort…..”same bad workers, did you take a survey ? Do you know these people ? If you do, did they tell you they were bad workers ? How about the engineers, are they all bad. What about the management, and engineers, that jumped ship, from Toyota, and BMW ???

    Back to the what wouldn’t I buy ? Anything from a German based company , with the possible exception of BMW. I love the styling, but couldn’t live with the high maintenance.

    The only Japanese car I would even remotely consider would be a Honda.

    I wouldn’t be caught dead, buying a Hyundai or a Kia.

    TTAC asked the question…I just gave my answer…

  • avatar
    bball40dtw

    It’s Chevrolet by default. I’d only buy the Corvette, Silverado, Suburban, or Tahoe. They have 16 other vehicles that I wouldn’t purchase. I’d never buy a Hyundai/KIA, Mitsubishi, or Fiat though.

  • avatar
    wmba

    Why bother putting in writing any make of vehicle you’d never buy?

    Next year, some make you thought you hated might come up with a great car. Me, I just try out the things and see if I like them. Couldn’t care less what the make is if I like the vehicle.

    It’s like the majority of choices above. Just picked out of the air, far as I can see – I’d wager most people never even owned one. But armed with a closed mind and a few anecdotes, we get treated to silly diatribes.

    Mind numbing.

    • 0 avatar
      bball40dtw

      A closed mind and silly diatribe that coaxed a comment out of you.

      • 0 avatar

        He sort of has a point. I thought I’d never buy a VW or a GM but nowadays both offer somwthinhg I would look at. Maybe a better question would be which current line you woukdn’t consider because they do nothing for you. Then we could have something but I would agree that writing off a whole brand because of a bad experience 20 years ago or because of what you hear is silly. Always try the car rwgardless of brand. My two cents.

        • 0 avatar
          bball40dtw

          I won’t dismiss a car just because of brand, well maybe Mitsubishi, but certain brands won’t be on the top of my list. Plus, these days, I look for a car with specific attributes before brand. Sometimes the things I look for in a vehicle automatically disqualify a brand.

        • 0 avatar
          sgeffe

          Because in most cases, you’re stuck with five years of payments, which makes a bad choice worse, and as we’ve seen on here, it sometimes costs a bundle to get out of it!

    • 0 avatar
      2drsedanman

      “Why bother putting in writing any make of vehicle you’d never buy?”-Because that is the question posed. If this subject is too mind numbing for you, why bother posting?

    • 0 avatar
      CJinSD

      The question is what company has the most cars you’d never buy, not which car company would you never buy a car from. There’s a difference.

    • 0 avatar
      MBella

      I agree. A few years ago, I would have laughed at the idea of driving a Buick. Now, I’m really liking some of their offerings.

  • avatar
    alexrcp

    I have to agree with earlier posts – Kia/Hyundai
    Their styling is so flashy, so blingy that I can’t help but think how quickly they’ll look dated. While they’ve made strides in quality and the overall look and feel of their cars, they still have no soul, no heritage. The fact that they want to compete with the likes of MB is just comical. When was the last time Kia/Hyundai introduced a NEW piece of technology? Not something that they ripped off another company, but something that they developed, in house? I can’t think of any.

    • 0 avatar
      SC5door

      8 speed RWD Automatic
      H-Trac AWD
      Dynamax AWD
      Nano glass–No Wipers Needed
      Smart window—Adjusts light and heat allowed through
      Solar cell sunroof
      Theta II engines used by Mitsu and Chrysler.
      Smart Trunk Lid

    • 0 avatar
      MBella

      Even Mercedes copies everyone else. They’re currently celebrating their new Heads Up Display, 80s Pontiac technology. Nothing wrong with trying to copy others good ideas. It’s pretty much how the Auto industry works.

    • 0 avatar

      Lots of Kia/Hyn hate in this thread. I’ve had probably a dozen of them, as rentals, Santa Fe, Optima, Elantra. To my great surprise they don’t suck. The interiors are a pastiche of stolen ideas. Ergos are from BMW. Gauges are Mercedes. Switch gear is Toyota, and electronics are a clunky version of what Acura does. (Hey, if you are going to steal, steal from the best)

      The interiors are low budget but adequate, and the engines are way better than anticipated. The only place they fall down is in NVH-you have a few levels of vibration not really damped out that the A line cars would have. They need to get the suspension tuning right…bushings, shocks and tires need tweaking, but theya are pretty close. (To be fair, I’ve never driven a sport package version)

      At the price point, I’d take them over Camry/Corolla. No, BMW doesn’t need to worry, yet….

      • 0 avatar
        sgeffe

        And their interior materials don’t last as long as the payments! (And from what I’ve seen on here anecdotally, getting anything done under that long warranty is nigh impossible!)

  • avatar

    You guys are all missing the easy one: Smart. By most accounts their car is worse than the Mirage.

  • avatar
    madman2k

    Acura, and Buick.

    Every other company I can think of has something I might conceivably want at some point, under some circumstances.

    Wouldn’t like Mitsubishi, except for the rally-setup Lancer alphabet soup edition.

    Wouldn’t like Chrysler, except for the 300 SRT8.

    Wouldn’t like Honda, except for the fully loaded Odyssey (slim chance but it’d be my high budget minivan pick)

    • 0 avatar
      manny_c44

      Hyundai, american companies except for ford, Hondas are becoming so ugly that I feel tempted to add them to the list- only the accord is still respectable, besides for the SLS amg (unaffordable) add Mercedes.

  • avatar
    Acd

    Nissan, Mercedes-Benz & Infiniti.

    None of these three has a single car in their current lineup that I’d pay money for. I driven enough Nissans that I won’t event rent them anymore let alone consider buying one. My idea of what a Mercedes should be and theirs began to diverge in the late 1990’s to the point where I’m just not interested in anything they sell now.

    • 0 avatar
      CooperS

      Infiniti would not be brand to buy. Basically an over priced Nissan for people that are to embarrassed to buy a Nissan. Almost every Infiniti driver that I’ve known was very snooty. You always hear about the nasty BMW driver. Well the Infiniti driver is that wannabe BWM driver, that cannot afford the BMW maintenance. If I had to drive a Japanese car if would be a Lexus, they drive circles around Infiniti. I apologize to any Inifiniti loyalist if there is such a thing.

  • avatar
    psarhjinian

    “This was right near the end of Saturn, when General Motors realized that by God, if we’re going to stay out of bankruptcy, we’d better come up with some cars that people will actually buy. So they developed the SSR.”

    Wait, what?

    The SSR—a two-person pickup truck without a useful bed but with a vicious MSRP and an even worse dealer padding—was the car GM thought people would buy in quantity?

    Unless you’re being very subtly sarcastic, I think the Kappa twins actually sold better.

    • 0 avatar
      John R

      Might he refering to the Saturn Sky Redline?

      • 0 avatar
        CoreyDL

        I think it’s an error. Never heard the Sky Redline referred to as the SSR.

        My favorite was the Solstice GXP hatchback thing. Saw one of those once driving around not too long ago. It really caught my eye. Overall on styling, the Saturn version was much better.

    • 0 avatar
      bball40dtw

      I’m sure Doug is being sarcastic.

    • 0 avatar
      Dave M.

      That’s Doug being sarcastic. He weaves it in and out of his essays…

      Anyway, there’s nothing Chevrolet, Cadillac, Mitsubishi or Nissan make that I’m interested in. If it wasn’t for the Flex and Mustang, Ford would be a little dubious too.

      • 0 avatar
        CooperS

        I would add Infiniti to that list if you don’t want a Nissan. They are basically over priced Nissan’s for people to embarrassed to drive a Nissan. Their owners tend to be pseudo rich types. Not bad cars, just over priced Nissan’s. But, no where near the quality or engineering of a Lexus.

        • 0 avatar
          S2k Chris

          You can hold that opinion if you want, but there is a very compelling reason to buy an Infiniti over a Nissan: RWD and (mostly) no CVTs. I’m an Acura fan, but Infiniti does do a better job at distancing Infinitis from Nissans than Acura does with Hondas.

        • 0 avatar
          bd2

          Infiniti has done a better job than Lexus or Acura in not selling “tarted up” versions of the mainstream brand in that Infiniti’s lineup was mostly RWD-based.

          All of Acura is FWD-based as is the majority for Lexus (and in the case of the LX ad GX, basically rebadged version of the Land Crusier and Prado; the same holds or the Infiniti SUV).

          ES, RX, NX and CT are all FWD-based with the ES and RX comprising the bulk of Lexus sales.

          And seems to be that Lexus will be probably adding 2 more FWD-based models (a sub NX CUV and a full-size CUV).

          But as Infiniti has learned – cheaper, FWD-based luxury models (esp. CUVs) sell better for the Japanese lux brands, which is why they have been increasing their FWD-based models (CUVs).

          • 0 avatar
            CooperS

            I don’t necessarily think FWD deems a brand lesser then the next. The RWD Infiniti Q70 has the steering feel of a Corolla. And they went back to the G37 steering from all the complaints. Lexus is still the top Japanese luxury brand, with or without FWD vehicles. Infiniti doesn’t even make a car that can be compared to the LS460. This will probably annoy many. But, I would take Hyundai Genesis 5.0 over any Infiniti. Stick an Infiniti badge on the Genesis at it would be the flagship of the Infiniti brand, and probably another $25,000 added to the price.

          • 0 avatar
            bd2

            @CooperS –

            There’s a reason why the RWD FX despite being smaller, got the higher alphanumeric (QX70) than the FWD JX (QX60).

            And why the CTS sedan starts and goes significantly higher in price than the larger XTS, why Audi does not offer the A7 and A8 in FWD form here and why Acura has failed so miserably at selling higher-end FWD-based sedans.

        • 0 avatar
          John R

          smh

        • 0 avatar
          CoreyDL

          @CooperS

          Yes, the Infiniti models (of which there is no matching US market Nissan product) are much more poorly engineered than the not-overpriced Lexus models which are rebodied US market Toyota product.

          /s

          Infinitis are RWD, and have different versions of the VQ engine than FWD V6 Nissan products.

          • 0 avatar
            CooperS

            Infiniti is still just a pseudo BMW. You cannot find an owner that is not uptight and probably spends over 50% of their annual salary on their Infiniti. Yes this is stereotyping. But, it is also very accurate.

          • 0 avatar
            CoreyDL

            Congrats CooperS, with this ridiculous generalization you are now fully relegated to troll status.

            You love to use the word pseudo though. Please consider this a non-pseudo invitation to leave and never return.

          • 0 avatar
            CooperS

            Oh, you are the websites nanny troll that was playing the race card. I see now. It pretty much proves my point. You have an Infiniti.

  • avatar
    TW5

    Kia

    I don’t much care for Korean knock-offs of Japanese cars, and Kia is the lower, in my mind, of the two Korean brands.

    Chysler is probably second place. I’d buy a 300 if I needed a full size sedan, but that’s it.

    No desire to drive a Land Rover, but they don’t sell many vehicles.

    Interesting question to ponder.

  • avatar
    ponchoman49

    Toyota followed by Mitsubishi then Smart and last Fiat. Most every other company has at least something on there roster that is worth considering.

    And I would hardly call the Saturn Relay’s styling 1992 or it’s interior 1994. 1992 minivans were quite a bit different looking think GM’s dust busters or Toyota’s egg or Honda’s old looking oblong Odyssey egg or the quite dated boxy Chryco vans. It’s interior was also quite a jump up in both appearance and quality from any 90’s van.

  • avatar
    energetik9

    Hyundai/Kia. They easily have the most cars I would never buy. Buick is a close second. Followed by Lincoln and then Cadillac.

    I don’t really have any brands I would never buy. I see Mitsu has come up a few times, but I am very fond of the Evo. Not big on Nissan, but I almost bought a GT-R.

    • 0 avatar
      DeadWeight

      I’m with you, though it’s Kia I’d not buy anything from (I MIGHT consider a Sonata under a total giveaway since they’re not much worse than Camrys now).

      1) Cadillac
      2) Kia
      3) Mitsu
      4) Fiat
      5) Mini
      6) Smart

      • 0 avatar
        bd2

        Don’t know where you’re getting at.

        Even the old/soon to be replaced Optima is better than the Camry (which, granted, isn’t that difficult these days).

  • avatar
    ATLOffroad

    Land Rover

    I would never spend money on a Land Rover. My one and only drive in a 2011 Range Rover I was highly disappointed with the interior quality and the loudness of the cabin at highway speeds.

    Who spends $80k on these SUVs when there are better ones out there that are half the price.

    • 0 avatar
      JMII

      Land Rover here too. Given their cost I’d just get a nice Jeep if I ever desired an “off roader”.

      GMC since I would just get the Chevy version.

      Hummer would be on the list too then, but they are long gone.

      However I’ve learned to never say never… if you had told me a few years ago I’d own a Volvo I’d LOL for sure. Of course I own the one Volvo nobody else bought: a C30

  • avatar
    DevilsRotary86

    For me it’s GM by sheer volume. They make so many different models but I don’t think I would want to buy any of them. Maybe if I hit myself hard enough in the head with a hammer the Camaro will seem like a good idea. The Cadillac ATS coupe is kinda tempting in principle, but the recent Ur-Turn has convinced me that I really don’t want to go there.

  • avatar
    John R

    Mitsu technically still makes the Lan Evo, ya know… :(

    For me, Buick. T

    That brand should have been taken behind the shed along with Pontiac and Saturn. I’d have rolled the Holden and Opel products under GMC called it a day. I don’t care how well it does in China – they can have it. GMC doesn’t have that sort of baggage.

    Try as they might to separate themselves from the early bird at Sizzler set it still hasn’t taken. I still see platinum AARP members driving these things, new.

    And then you still have the DONK set keeping LeSabres on the road come hell or high water.

    But what do I know? GM is ostensibly turning a profit. Not having my money, though. They can come out with a AWD twin-turbo GNX that’s more GT-R than a GT-R and I wouldn’t be able to summon any enthusiasim for those products.

    Oh, add Smart to the list, natch.

    • 0 avatar
      TMA1

      Funny you mention the perception of blue-haired buyers that Buick has. Buick just started running some new ads, where a young 30-something is escorting his grandmother to his new Regal, when she says, “That’s not a Buick! You said you bought a Buick!” Her elderly neighbor agrees, “That’s not a Buick!”

  • avatar
    kvndoom

    I drink from the ewer of the manual transmission. I won’t snub a brand, only a car’s features.

  • avatar
    cpthaddock

    Over the years, there have been quite a few brands I’d never consider owning but I’m open minded enough to re-evaluate as the product changes. That goes both ways though, so cat, meet pigeons.

    In the realm of luxury cars rule 1, beauty is a fundamental requirement. Without beauty, a car is merely luxurious.

    The two prime offenders of our current era are:

    Lexus, who gave us the original and infamous SC “Muffin Top” belt-line along with numerous successor styling horrors.

    BMW who then not only revived and reinterpreted this unfortunate feature, but have stuck with it and led a flock of unoriginal sheep to add it to their vehicles.

    Both of these companies visually mutilate otherwise promising designs and produce vehicles which look to be styled by committees of blind eels. How else can you explain the utterly horrific Lexus grill or the gaping hard core porn inspired orifices epitomized by the lower front corners of the new M series?

    In fairness, these two are hardly alone but they do stand out consistently in recent years, across the brand, as the leaders of the pack.

    • 0 avatar
      Dave M.

      I didn’t care for the SC until the last couple of years…now I wouldn’t mind getting one. The Lexus grille can only be blamed on one suspect – Audi. They started the rock slide in 2007. The only grille that I really dislike is Acura’s, but at least they’ve toned it down somewhat over the past 3 years….

      The LED running lights thing better fall out of fashion quickly. Gauche as hell.

  • avatar
    CJinSD

    Ford. There are plenty of brands that I have zero interest in, but Ford makes the most different indifferent vehicles.

  • avatar
    NoGoYo

    When it comes to current brands, yeah, Toyota and Mitsubishi for me. There is nothing at Toyota I’d buy over something else, except for like…a Land Cruiser.

  • avatar
    strafer

    Since I keep my cars for a long time, and do my own maintenance, I won’t buy any European cars.
    Especially British cars.

  • avatar
    Crabspirits

    I can answer that pretty easily, since I was just at the Chicago Auto Show, and made a point in experiencing as many products as possible.

    But when it came to Volvo, I only made it to within 30ft of their deserted section. I looked for the C30 hatchback, and then assumed correctly that it must be long gone. I should have been interested in the V70 wagon, but I wasn’t, probably because it looks like a Ford Escape instead of a wagon. They might be good cars, but I just couldn’t live with something that blah.

    Mitsubishi still has the Lancer, an SUV, and a CUV that I think are nice deals.

  • avatar
    bumpy ii

    Ferrari. Everything they make is completely useless outside of a track with a team of engineers and mechanics behind the pit wall.

  • avatar
    Zackman

    Mitsubishi. Ford (although I owned a 1996 Ranger, which was very good. Nissan. Chrysler from now on – at least from 1999.

    I used to be a rabid Chrysler fan and drove their products for too many years, but doubt I’ll ever buy another one.

    Funny – right now, whenever I do buy another vehicle, it probably won’t be a Chevy anymore. Although my Impalas have given me stellar service over the last 11 years, my next ride may be a Honda CR-V! Sacrilege!

  • avatar
    don1967

    #1 Smart. Not a single model that even remotely interests me.

    #2 Chrysler/Mitsubishi. Saved only by the 300C and Evo.

    Some comments seem to be an expression of brand hate, as opposed to a well-thought-out answer to the question asked.

  • avatar
    juicy sushi

    There are several brands with literally zero cars I would like to own. Audi, Mercedes-Benz, Toyota, Infiniti, Acura, Cadillac, Mitsubishi, Land Rover, Ferrari, McLaren, Lamborghini, Bentley, Alfa Romeo, Aston Martin, Rolls Royce and I’m sure several others I can’t remember right now.

  • avatar
    shadow mozes

    Anything European is off my list.

  • avatar
    slavuta

    To me its Honda. Because I want a car with rear split fording bench and no sunroof… I hope you got the point – Honda will not see my garage until it changes its option packaging system.

  • avatar
    PrincipalDan

    Actually upon reflection (and this surprises me a bit)… The current Cadillac lineup. I don’t want an American car pretending to be a BMW, I want an American car that has the presence and swagger of an up level Chrysler 300. That is luxury – not times on the Burgerkingonion Ring.

    The only Cadillac I would even consider would be an XTS and then ONLY in twin turbo AWD guise. That would be to get the engine drive combo. Honestly to me an MKS with Ecobost and AWD is a more desirable vehicle.

    • 0 avatar
      shadow mozes

      Exactly! Instead of making BMW wannabes, make something unique and American. They need to go back to their roots and make a modern day large luxury sedan. American luxury should be comfort and serenity, not how fast and uncomfortable you can make a car. Cadillac has completely lost their ways and I totally agree with you.

      • 0 avatar
        TW5

        Plush fluff is Buick territory. I’m not sure why GM fails to capitalize on the luxurious plush sedan, but Cadillac has been transformed in a way that they could never build fluffy cars again.

        • 0 avatar
          bd2

          Yep – that’s Buick’s territory (altho the Regal is pretty fun and the LaCrosse isn’t bad for what it is – better than the ES when it comes to driving dynamics).

          Note that even Lexus has been gunning for BMW with the IS and GS with the new LS reportedly going from a comfort cruiser to more of a performance bent flagship.

  • avatar
    Ryoku75

    Oh boy, I have a HUGE list of automakers I’d rather not buy from:

    BMW: Huge redundant product line-up, they have maybe one or two cars that I wouldn’t mind (2-series is pretty neat), but a ton of others that are just plain dumb.

    Mercedes: I’ve seen both newer and old Benz in person, I cannot believe how cheap modern Benz’s feel in comparison. At least one looked like the grille was just glued onto the bare hood! I wouldn’t mind an older Benz though, good cars.

    Mini: Same issue as BMW, but this time with an ugly line-up and cheap materials abound. Cheap teen cars made to last for about 2 years.

    Honda: Just an ugly product line-up for the most part, I don’t like cars where more money was put into marketing than the brakes. Better than older Hondas (you can actually fit into them), I just want decent brakes.

    Acura: Ugh, Hondas but bigger and uglier, no thanks.

    Scion: Whats the point? I can just go to Toyota if I want a Toyota. Whats that? FRS? Not interested.

    Mazda: Sensitive cars with SENSITIVE owners, I get the Miata, I don’t get the rest of their cars.

    Nissan: Ugly styling and cheap components, not interested.

    Lexus: I prefer actually having bumpers on my cars. And I loathe BMW imitators.

    Mitsubishi: The Lancer still looks good (yes they still make it), the rest of their cars are forgettable. What “cool” you got from a Lancer was lost when the Mirage got its front end.

    Chevy: I’m not interested in re-badged Daewoods, and their big cars look like Camry clones. I genuinely don’t care for the “Chevy SS” Road and Track seems obsessed with, I’d rather have a BMW than a BMW wannabe.

    Hyundai/Kia: I’d rather own a Japanese car imitating a European car, than a Korean car imitating a Japanese car imitating a European car.

    Fiat: I DO like the Abarth, but the 500X and diet-Abarth Turbo are just dumb, if you want to broaden your product line don’t make EVERYTHING a 500 variant. Why not revive the 124 as a compact sedan?

    RAM: I don’t need a huge MAANNNN truck at the moment.

    Lincoln: I’d rather just get a Ford and pay less

    Cadillac: Uninteresting product-line that all but the Escalade have lost their names. Guess which of their models sells the best?

    Volvo: The closest current car to my own Volvo is the Ford Flex. Their current cars just don’t seem to be as ambitious as their earlier models.

    The few car companies I WANT to own cars from:

    Ford: Their new Focus hatchback looks great in the right colors, and you get a full-size spare! Not even Mercedes gives you that! I just worry over their “drift” and “burnout” features they’re tossing into their fast cars, just seems a bit dumb.

    Volkswagen: I would not mind a plain Golf, good modest styling and plenty of space. If I get lucky a GLi would be fine too (The diet Audi), Germans tend to be pretty good about their brakes.

    Didn’t I say this was huge?

    • 0 avatar
      Eyeflyistheeye

      Not going to lie. The Focus hatchback’s appearance played a significant role in me buying one.

      • 0 avatar
        Ryoku75

        I hope you enjoy it, though I have a few questions:

        1. Have you had to replace any non-wear items?

        2. Can you change the transmission fluid? Or is it “Sealed for Life”?

        • 0 avatar
          Eyeflyistheeye

          15000 miles since May 2014. Nothing out of the ordinary.

          I have a manual transmission with a drainplug. Wouldn’t touch the dual clutch if my life depended on it.

        • 0 avatar
          bball40dtw

          I had a 2012 Focus that was afflicted with the bad batch of DCTs and early MFT. The APIM was replaced on the MFT system and the clutch packs were replaced on the transmission. Somehow the fluid got contaminated. This was a Job 1 car that I got at a big discount and knew it was going to have some issues.

          The DCT can have it’s fluid changed. It’s pretty inexpensive as there isn’t much fluid in there.

          On my 2013 Focus ST I replaced zero non-wear items.

          I wouldn’t shy away from a Focus with the DCT, but I would perfer the manual.

  • avatar
    brianyates

    Any North American car, except Tesla, which, if I had the readies, would buy in a heartbeat.

  • avatar
    Vulpine

    To answer the headline question, my only answer can be… FORD. They do not make one single vehicle that interests me enough to consider buying it.

  • avatar
    SC5door

    GM. Including the Corvette; the serious issue with heat soak on the new Z06 is embarrassing. I certainly don’t like the new Silverado and Sierra either, the interiors are very cheap for what you pay for. Almost as bad as the Land Cruiser with the rock hard dashboard for $80k.

    Toyota trucks. Embarrassingly ugly styling, and matching awful interiors. You can slap some nice leather in that 1794 edition Tundra but can’t cover up the Play-Skool grade other plastics.

    Smart. The fat guy joke inside of a Smart at the auto show is old. Get rid of those cars now.

    Acura. The “beak” looks like the grill off the Family Truckster. And now you’re going to use the ZF 9 speed?? Pass.

  • avatar
    SteveMar

    Nissan. Literally nothing in their lineup moves me. The swoopy doopy styling looks cheap. The mechanicals are meh at best. Not as reliable as Toyota or Honda or fun to drive as Mazda. Every single model they offer is pretty much done better elsewhere.

    Mistsubishi. Seriously – who is putting their own cash down for these vehicles?

    Lincoln – Like a Ford with lots of extra fluff. Uglier, more costly and that godawful whale’s maw on the grill. No.

    Smart – You can’t be serious, right? I’ve driven these as a Car to Go. I couldn’t imagine owning one and not walking around with a bag on my head.

    Fiat – cute cars, but nothing for me here

    • 0 avatar
      APaGttH

      Nissan is the maker I always forget about when talking about “classes,” of cars, sans the Versa.

      B-segment – the Versa

      C-segment, what about Nissan? Oh that’s right they still make the Sentra. Can’t remember when I saw one last.

      D-segment, what about Nissan? Oh that’s right the Altima. I see them all over rental lots and driven by people with dubious credit in 2.5 S trim.

      compact CUV, what about Nissan? Oh that’s right, they have that Rogue thing.

      mid-szie CUV, what about Nissan? Don’t they make a thing the Mornao, Murano, Mulano, Mulan???

      Two-door sports car, Camaro, Challenger, Mustang, Genesis, FR-S, and, and, and, wait, Mazda doesn’t make the RX-8 anymore, oh, and – what about Nissan? Oh that’s right, they make the 370Z…

  • avatar
    r129

    Mitsubishi, of course… that’s almost too easy. Aside from that, there isn’t a single Toyota that I would ever want to buy, or even consider buying. They’re fine for other people, but not me.

    There are several Saturns that I would have considered owning at one point or another. The Sky, Astra 3-door, Ion Redline, and maybe even the L-series wagon.

  • avatar
    scott25

    GMC, Lincoln (who do either of them still exist? Why did GMC ever exist?), Mercedes, Chevrolet (I’m drawn to the Spark and Colorado, that’s it, most of their other models look like they were designed and built by 5-year-olds), Ferrari (I would never buy a new one no matter how rich I was and how much I love the FF), Rolls-Royce. In that order.

    • 0 avatar
      bball40dtw

      Lincoln exists for me to buy used ones at low, low prices.

    • 0 avatar
      NoGoYo

      I’d say that GMC mostly existed for heavy duty trucks, especially since GMC heavy duty trucks (I dunno what class numbers they would be, but…heavier duty than the Topkick and Kodiak) were sold for years longer than their Chevrolet counterparts, and likely also outsold said Chevrolet counterparts.

      • 0 avatar
        r129

        GMC exists for one main reason: the GM dealers. Aside from that, the development cost is low, and they actually sell in decent numbers.

        • 0 avatar
          PrincipalDan

          @r129 – Right if GM could consolidate all of its brands into one superstore per city/town/rural county where you could buy everything they make and eliminate all of the duplication then they would have a compelling reason to exist.

          • 0 avatar
            r129

            Funny thing is, there is definite GMC brand loyalty among the “GM guys.” I have known many a GMC owner who would not consider a Chevy Truck. Now that there is some actual differentiation, such as the Terrain vs. Equinox, I guess there is more of a reason to choose one over the other. I have a friend who just bought a Terrain, and would not even consider the Equinox because of how it looks.

          • 0 avatar
            NoGoYo

            I wouldn’t consider a Chevy either. Slightly used/model year closeout GMC Sierra > Brand new Silverado.

        • 0 avatar
          TMA1

          Yeah, I always thought GMC existed so that Buick/Pontiac dealers wouldn’t lose truck customers to the Chevy dealer down the street.

      • 0 avatar
        dtremit

        Yet somehow the “heavy duty truck” brand became the “upscale from Chevy” brand. I’m not sure how that happened and it still confuses me.

  • avatar
    S2k Chris

    Koreans. Their cars just scream “I’ve given up on succeeding in life” to me.

  • avatar
    Ihatejalops

    Easy question:

    I’ll list the would buys. Ones off the list I wouldn’t plunk a cent down for any of their cars.

    Yay:
    BMW, Ford, Ram, Hellcat, Ferrari, Koenegsegg, Pagani, Hyundai, Honda, Maserati, Alfa Romeo, Jaguar, Land Rover/Range Rover, Mazda, Kia, and a Citroen.

  • avatar
    APaGttH

    Well if the test is the most vehicles from a single modern manufacturer (hence my answer of Fiat is out the window) then my answer is either Toyota or VW.

    In the case of Toyota there are plenty of Toyota’s I would buy if I was looking for a soulless appliance – they build soulless appliances line no one else.

    In the case of VW there just isn’t anything there I would buy either because it’s unappealing, or bang for the buck there are better choices.

    I might put BMW on this list too, but largely because they are so feckin’ over segmented today. There are definitely BMWs I would buy but the numeric soup they have today…ugh.

  • avatar
    Eyeflyistheeye

    Subaru, for the fact that my Legacy GT was a POS and I can do without driving another one of their vehicles for the rest of my life.

    Taking my personal biases out of it, I would have to say Acura. Everything they make is a cynical rehash of the Civic or Accord. Honda is a close second, except that if I had to buy a ~21k car, it doesn’t get any better than the Accord.

    Everything changes in life though. Never thought I’d be driving a Ford until Alan Mulally came along.

    • 0 avatar
      APaGttH

      Owned a Subaru Legacy – second worst piece of crap I’ve ever owned – never again. The future Mrs. came with a Subaru, her stripper Forrester isn’t that bad – her son’s 2011 Impreza sedan is and endless source of misery.

      • 0 avatar
        Eyeflyistheeye

        Ugh, the worst thing is that most people who own Subarus replace things like head gaskets and wheel bearings that owners of other cars never have to worry about in the lives of their vehicles.

        The Legacy GT is a screwed-up car out of the box. An uppipe cat just to meet emission standards and later can get sucked up, wheel bearings not properly designed, and a stock tune that was deplorable. The car only became decent with an AccessPort, and by then, your warranty is now void, the fragile transmissions and wheel bearings have even more stress going to them and then more money has to be spent just to keep everything in order.

        • 0 avatar
          Ryoku75

          Whenever I see Subarus they always have a ton of miles on them, and I can’t help but wonder “How much money was spent getting this thing to 250k?”

          On top of headgasket issues, wheel bearing issues, Subarus have really awful rust protection coupled with cheap steel, just leaning on some models will cause a dent.

          Quirky? Sure, but Saab did that better, at least you got a tough body with those.

  • avatar
    PeteRR

    I was going to say GM, but I like the Corvette and their trucks are useful. So, Toyota. Completely awful from the top of the lineup on down.

  • avatar
    NN

    we had some snow & ice this past week, and the roads got real bad. I live in an area where people don’t know how to drive in snow/ice very well. Driving home from work on windy two lanes covered in ice, I winced when approached by a couple of Mitsubishi’s coming the other way. No other vehicle caused me to take any particular notice or pay special attention to. For the Mitsu’s…it was not so much because of the car, but because of the judgement I make on the driver behind the wheel who chose that brand. I thought if anyone was going to cross over into my lane and put me in the ditch, it was going to come from the Mitsubishi driver, and they obviously have no insurance.

    so yeah Mitsubishi wins the day, they haven’t made a decent vehicle since the Montero

    • 0 avatar
      TMA1

      I’m afraid of the guy driving a 10-15 year-old Mercedes that just fell into his income bracket. Can’t even afford to spring for the 4matic, and I saw his car going sideways trying to get up a steep hill near my house.

  • avatar
    Bob

    I tried to buy a Saturn Sky in 2006 when they first came out, the dealership in Ventura California wanted an extra 10 thousand dollars over the sticker price. Luckily the dealer was right next to a Mazda dealership that had dozens of Miatas.

  • avatar
    AprilFools

    Hyundai/Kia – Don’t like the styling at all on any of them. Drove a few, and don’t like how the three I did drive, drove.

    DOdge/Chrysler – Only model in their lineup I’d consider is the 200, and that would be last on my list. Only interest is in awd.

    Everything else I have more than 1 model I can think of I would buy, if I had the resources/means to purchase it.

  • avatar
    30-mile fetch

    I’m ignoring the barely-there brands like Mitsu, Smart, Fiat.

    It’s a general tie between Nissan and Hyundai/Kia. Nissan has literally nothing that interests me now that the Xterra is going away. V6 Altima is OK, but I’d rather have a V6 Accord, Camry SE, or perhaps even 200.

    I in no way think H/K is a poor auto manufacturer, but very little appeals to me on a visceral level and I’d prefer Toyota & Honda for practical cost-effective appliances.

    For all the scorn heaped on Toyota, they still offer the 4Runner, Tacoma, FR-S, a V6 Camry SE and an Avalon distant enough from it’s LeSabre-like predecessors that it won a C&D comparo.

  • avatar
    APaGttH

    This brings up an interesting, larger issue. My sister has a ’97 Camry. She’s the original owner. 250K miles on it. The car has lived a charmed life, typically used on open highway drives between Sacramento and San Fran during non-peak traffic times. Sits for days at a time, garaged at work, and garaged at home. Moderate climate, minimal rain/snow/mud/etc exposure. When driven around town things are basically flat. The rear seat has probably had butts in it 20 times during her ownership, never had a kid, never had a dog.

    The exterior looks like the day she bought it, the interior, sans the driver seat, which the padding is getting tired, is also equally new looking. Switch gear, everything. The front rotors are lightly warped, she doesn’t care, and the front end is really loose (not worth doing the suspension work).

    Every year, she goes through the ritual of going to the car show. I’ll come down and go with her. We look at everything and every year, since 2005, the same conclusion.

    Keep the 1997 Camry, nothing else comes close to what it offers (including the current Camry). There is a whole lot of boring out there, and what isn’t boring seems grossly over engineered.

    • 0 avatar
      TW5

      Freedom is an old reliable car, no debt, and a healthy bank account.

    • 0 avatar
      bd2

      The ’92-96MY was the high point for the Camry and for Toyota (the ’97-2001 was pretty good as well).

      Since then, cost-cutting has hit the Camry where the current one is like a cheap imitation of the one from its heyday.

      • 0 avatar
        30-mile fetch

        They also MSRP for far less in inflation-adjusted dollars. If a basic Camry LE had all of its former glory in 2015 it would cost something like $27K and then folks would complain about price.

        • 0 avatar
          CooperS

          So cheaper materials then equals an inferior car to the late 90’s Camry’s. As other brands are putting more quality into there family sedans. Toyota knows they we sell based past experiences, selling on the perception of that great older Toyota models. I have two coworkers that bought new Camry’s last year based on there love of there past Camry’s, both were late 90’s. And both of those ladies said, they will never buy another Camry. One has an internal dash rattle, and the other waited weeks for her XLE V6. The lady with the V6 said her 1996 Camry feels more solid then her new 30k Camry and should have listened to her husband and bought a new Sonata.

          • 0 avatar
            30-mile fetch

            If fondling your dashboard is the primary way in which you judge vehicle quality, yes. Otherwise they are still reliable, functional, well-thought out machines targeted well for their intended audience, and you can buy one for far less than you could in the past. You have a roomier, much faster, much safer, more efficient, much more feature-laden car that holds its value and you had to give up some quality dash plastics for it.

            It isn’t the leap over the competition that it used to be, but they aren’t charging the kind of premium either they used to either.

            I had a 1996. The dash rattled like crazy unless I crammed a piece of cardboard between it and the windshield.

          • 0 avatar
            CooperS

            “If fondling your dashboard is the primary way in which you judge vehicle quality, yes.” My coworker has a $26,000 crap camry that has a rattle in the dash that her toyota dealer tried to fix 4 times. One rattle gone and another started so she could use the lemon law. The metal is so thin on the doors it is already pitted with small dings that most any other car would not ding. The car is a sad case or bean counters, relying on the past history of there vehicles to sell the cars. Toyota is brilliant company.

          • 0 avatar
            30-mile fetch

            Uh huh, and our Altima gets chipped paint when butterflies fart nearby, a Ford F150’s door panels flutter like a kicked bass drum when closing, I see lots of Hondas with oxidizing paint, and a Chrysler 300’s rear-quarter bumper panel will sometimes flutter in the wind at highway speeds. Tells me nothing about mechanical longevity and performance.

            If you want strong paint and thick-feeling metal body panels, I could show you a fleet of MkIV VWs that were great at feeling like a million bucks when new, only to realize later on that the patina of quality hid real component problems.

            Today’s Camry is the opposite; cheap-feeling interior and bodywork surrounding sound powertrains and mechanical components that will probably last as long or longer than the glory days with minimal maintenance and headache and still retain solid resale value.

            Most people buy cars as expensive, important tools necessary to the daily functioning of their professional and personal lives. The Camry still does that well. If that ain’t your thing, might I suggest an expensive disposable toy like a Mini Cooper?

          • 0 avatar
            CooperS

            I agree with you on Nissan paint. It is not just your Altima, all Nissan products including the pseudo BMW/luxury Infiniti line. Very thin paint, very cheap feeling. Can’t find one in the SLC area without paint issues. Ford’s seem to hold up in the paint department. As for my disposable Cooper. It was a great car, little things like trim would come off. Yet, after 80k miles and 5 years driving it like I stole it. I sold it for only $4500 less then I payed. Resale value was almost like one of those metrosexual FJ Cruisers. Surprised the heck out of me. Almost bought another one.

  • avatar
    FreedMike

    Only one brand I’d never buy: Ram.

    I’m happy with my penis size, after all.

  • avatar
    Big Al from Oz

    It seems many of the vehicles mentioned here are in fact manufactured in the US.

    For us, who live outside of the US we have different views on what is what.

    There is not one brand I would not consider. To me placing limitations on oneself because of “branding” show a definite lack of decision making capacity by an individual. Childish.

    I don’t give one rats ass where a vehicle is made or what brand it is.

    I do see some here who are quite critical of the Hyundai/Kia brands. When in fact the best vehicle overall I’ve ever owned was a 2004 Kia Sorento. It’s only drawback was it’s lust for fuel.

    The vehicle did not excel at anything. It was good at everything and it never once had any unscheduled maintenance carried out.

    I would consider any vehicle is it was best suited to my requirements. Why buy a vehicle that might not best suit your requirements because of a brand name.

    • 0 avatar
      S2k Chris

      “I would consider any vehicle is it was best suited to my requirements. Why buy a vehicle that might not best suit your requirements because of a brand name.”

      Bully for you. My actual real-world requirements can be summed up as “transport me a few miles to work without breaking down”.

      Given that 90% of the cars made today can do that (the other 10% are British or German ;) ), it moves to intangibles, things like how do I like the styling, how does the car make me feel, what features and goodies does it have, how does it move down the road? Given that I’m usually spending $30-40k of my own money, my opinion of those attributes is pretty important to me. And that’s where, to me, the Koreans fall down, I just wouldn’t feel good about buying one. I remember crappy Kia Sephias and Hyundai Excels too vividly.

      Note that I still recommend the H/K cars to other people, but they’re just not vehicles I would be happy to get behind the wheel of every day, and given that “meets my requirements” vehicles are ubiquitous, I’m not going to settle for something I just don’t like, no matter how shallow you think that makes me.

      • 0 avatar
        Big Al from Oz

        @S2k Chris,
        I’m actually like you with my thoughts.

        Take the Sorento when I bought it;
        1. I didn’t need it’s capability,

        2. I didn’t need to spend the additional money on it,

        3. I bought it because it did fulfill the role I expected and I had the capacity to afford operating it, and

        4. I had a plethora of options to consider when purchasing.

        I’d bet the majority who buy a car the first issue they encounter is “how much can I afford”.

        That’s why you see so many of us who buy a pickup. Do we need it? No. We buy them because we have the ability to afford one.

        The very same pickup people if they didn’t have the money would probably be driving some little CUV around. Why? Because it will fulfill 99% of what they use a vehicle for.

        That is like you. They want to be able to drive to work, pick up the kids from school and do the shopping and maybe drive interstate every now and then to visit the in-laws.

        We are lucky to live in the countries we do and have the luxury of driving vehicles we really don’t need, but want.

        So, buying by brand is a stupid notion. A person will buy a highly blinged vehicle over a more Spartan vehicle for the same price……if they can afford it.

    • 0 avatar
      krhodes1

      @Big Al

      Fundamentally, I agree with you 100%. I really don’t care about the brand name on a vehicle at all. But there are a number of brands that currently do not sell a single vehicle in the US market that I would ever spend my own money on. See my other post for that list. Thus I can say that I would not buy a Toyota, Audi, Mitsubishi, etc. All of them have sold vehicles in the past that I would buy, any of them might well come out with something I find desirable in the future. Lexus would come off my list if they offered the IS350 with a stickshift, for example.

      There are a few individual cars that I would not buy for image reasons that I otherwise respect. The Corvette is the absolute top of that list. Fabulous car in any of the past several generations, a true performance bargain, but I would never, ever, buy one.

  • avatar
    udman

    Hands Down there are four makes I won’t touch with a ten foot pole…

    1) Volkswagen. There isn’t a VW made that I would even consider buying. I owned a Mk I Jetta… let’s just say that it was a real POS.
    2) By Default, VW’s richer sibling, Audi. Too many VAG parts, too many repairs after the warranty ends, owned by the same people who used to own BMW’s. Ugh…
    3) Speaking of which… BMW. I really hate the image that BMW cultivated, and the cars and trucks they now offer… meh.
    4) Mercedes-Benz, and what’s really strange about this is that I now work for a Mercedes-Benz dealer. Yes, I’ve driven the current crop of Benz mobiles, and I have to say this… I’m not impressed. The CLA is crap, so is the GLA, the new C is awful, the current E is average, the S is just showing off, and all the SUV’s are all blah.

    I’m going to use a line from an infamous situation comedy on what I really think about Mercedes-Benz (and the other luxury German Car Makers as well…) Why would I want to drive in a car that is nothing but a Nazi Phallic Symbol?

  • avatar
    robc123

    udman beat me.

    for me:

    VW
    everything about the line up- reliability, material feel, engineering, styling, the stereotype all horrible, horrible cars- plus the price.

    Accura/nissan/subaru/mitso/toyota/chevy/ford/GM/cadillac/any “supercar” or expensive showoff car.

    supercar like- even from a Ferrari 360, every rube coming up wanting to know what you do for a living, spitting on the car, wannabe test pilots.

    All yuck.

    All cars suck.

    You know I like watching car shows, racing, stats, fake shopping- but when it comes down to it they are all depreciating, rusting, money sucking sinkholes. its better to save for early retirement than blow it on a sinkhole of vanity.

    virtual car ownership. thinking of just keeping my longtime shit box (because I cannot justify g note a month) and renting a nice car a couple days in summer, take a road trip- bag it out and return it.

  • avatar
    S1L1SC

    I’ll say Rover – I think they still sell some cars in the UK…

  • avatar
    F-85

    Any MOPAR. Chrysler, Jeep, Dodge, Ram.

    IMO, they all seem to be junkers w/in a few years of being purchased new. Can’t get past that.

  • avatar
    CaseyLE82

    I’d never buy a Toyota. I know that they are good cars but they just feel soulless to me. Some of the older 80’s ones, sure, but the current crop of automobiles? No thanks. I’d much prefer a Ford.

  • avatar
    jhott997

    Great question that provoked me to post.
    Chrysler. Everything in their showroom the competition does better. Why buy anything from Chrysler?
    Buick. What’s the point of Buick at this point?
    Honda and Acura. Nothing interests me. I understand the Odyssey is a great utility vehicle but I will never buy a minivan.
    GMC. I know I’m in the minority here but I simply don’t understand the brand beyond supporting a dealer network.

  • avatar
    pb35

    I would have bought the Saturn Vue, the one that used the Honda V6. I think it was the Redline.

    As for not buy, I would go (not go) with Hyundai. I just have zero interest in Korean cars.

    • 0 avatar
      Vulpine

      The Honda V6 was a notorious troublemaker for the Vue. On the other hand, the Opel i-4 was a surprisingly strong little engine that gave great gas mileage. I’d easily average over 30 mpg highway even when loaded with vacation gear (and parents typical push more stuff into your car when not looking, load).

  • avatar
    baconpope

    I would never buy a Ferrari. Ugly as sin and not worth a single kidney–much less the two kidney, liver, and lung that they charge.

  • avatar
    Russycle

    I think you’re too hard on Saturn. The Vue with a 6 is decent little CUV, I haven’t driven an Astra but they seem pretty nice. I like the looks of the Sky but I hear the drivetrain is pretty coarse, which is unforgiveable in a sports car.

  • avatar
    kurtamaxxguy

    Ford and Cadillac, because of their miserably unreliable and clunky to use infotainment systems (MyTouch and Cue). If Ford’s Sync 3 ends up being as good as claimed, I’d definitely look at Fords again.

  • avatar
    honda_lawn_art

    Mini

  • avatar
    krhodes1

    Speaking purely of each companies current US production:

    ToyotaLexusScion – not a thing that interests me at all. The perfect transportation appliances for people who don’t care about cars.

    Nissan – cheap and nasty. Like worse Toyotas.

    Infiniti – Expensive and ugly cars. Cheap copies of BMWs.

    Acura – pointless upmarket Hondas.

    Audi – I find AWD pointless on street cars, and I don’t really like the way they drive. I think they generally look fantastic though. But no sale. Though maaaaybeeee the A8 could make me make an exception if I wanted a big-boy barge. Nah, I’d buy a used Phaeton – never mind.

    Mitsubishi – blech on blech on blech. Toyotas without the good parts.

    Ferrari, Lamborghini, McLaren, etc. – I’m just not that outgoing, and the cars are not pretty anymore. A truly pointless level of performance.

    Subaru – AWD Toyotas. The BRZ-FRA are incredibly disappointing – should have been fantastic, but just aren’t all that much fun. The WRX is fun, but just an econobox with power.

    Volvo – such a sad situation currently.

    • 0 avatar
      Ryoku75

      “Ferrari, Lamborghini, McLaren”

      Imo they all look identical at this point, you never want a super car that feels mass-produced.

      Just hearing about that cheaper, detuned Mclaren makes me wonder what they’re shooting for, certainly nothing as exclusive as the Mclaren F1.

  • avatar
    Igoaround940

    I really don’t fancy any new car now. I remember being wow’ed by TR-7’s, and X1/9’s, impressed by Lincolns and Cadillacs and drooling over Jaguars and Porsches. I remember blue, white, green, red and tan interiors. Now, you can have whatever interior color you want so long as it’s gray. Newer cars may be clever indeed but they lack style and panache; anyone who has ever seen a silver Ford Focus of any year at every corner can attest to that. As I drive down the road, my head still turns when I see some lucky dog driving an older car in fine fettle. On any given Saturday afternoon, I can still find a group of guys milling about an older car at the car wash asking about it of it’s owner. When was the last time someone gave a damn about your Dodge Avenger or Hyundai Sonata? New cars? Feh!

  • avatar
    Luke42

    Volkswagen.

    I liked my Jetta TDI, when it ran, which was only about half the time I owed it. It ate $3k gearboxes, and there were several other failure-prone $1k-$3k parts in it (such as the injector pump, timing belt, possibly the turbo). I swapped lots of sensors, but never could get the turbo overboost CELs to go away.

    I really like the TDI engines – the only thing I’ve ever driven which compares to the even torque of those engines have been elertric. I like how their cars look and drive. But I ate a lot of bad luck and even more crow that year I owned a VW.

    VW, please make beating Toyota at the reliability/repairability/dependability game a corporate priority, so tdat I can justify buying a sweet TDI wagon (or crossover?) and so that I can expect to drive it well beyond the warranty period – like I have been able to with my Toyotas and Fords.

    • 0 avatar
      Luke42

      Also, BMW.

      The cars are nice enough, but they come with cost, maintainability, efficiency, and packaging compromises (as compared to my Prius or my minivan).

      If you think brand-prestige is more important than those compromises, then none of this may matter to you. But I’m looking for a superior utility and a steady long-term ownership experience — not superior branding with a sporty suspension.

  • avatar
    GeneralMalaise

    General Motors. Nothing but the Chevy SS and the Corvette raise my pulse. I’d never buy one

    I used to think I’d never buy a German car, but I absolutely love our 2013 MB E350 BlueTec. That car is built to last, and will, probably longer than me, given I’m 62.

  • avatar
    bullnuke

    1. Honda – Smarmy dealers who push creating a “relationship” with their overpriced service departments and corporate attitude that their products cannot/do not fail. The vehicles always feel tiny and cheap to me. All of them remind me of riding in a cab in Yokosuka.
    2. VW – I was once a big fan of VW’s. I have owned 8 of them over the years, 5 bought new. Quirky, noisy at times, but fun to drive. Never super quality but I could figure out how to keep them running without dealership service department intervention (for instance, a matchbook cover is the exact thickness for setting distributor points when the set screw comes loose). Parts were cheap and always in stock. The latest ones appear to require too much regular high-dollar dealer service department attention and repair parts are ridiculous.
    3. Any pickup truck from US manufacturers with the possible exception of Ram. I just cannot have one without a manual transmission. I’m gonna keep my ’99 F350 7.3 for a long time because of this.
    4. Any GM product. I’ve owned a few new over the years; most were okay without major issues. I’m done with them now – they should have expired in 2008-2009 without the use of my money. Buying from GM is funding an archaic top-heavy bureaucracy run by bean-counters manufacturing badge-engineered, recycled crap.
    5. Toyota. “Oh what a feeling! Toyota” Yeah, right. ZZZZZZZZZZ

  • avatar
    peekay

    Toyota. Never owned one and never will.

  • avatar
    nrd515

    I have a lot of makes that I wouldn’t buy, Some I’ve always disliked, some I thought were tolerable.

    Honda: Never made anything that interested me, ever. I don’t understand the love of them at all. The ones friends had were not all that great reliability wise, and the looks turned me off too.

    Subaru: Friends had several, all of them had horror stories about head gaskets in some of them, and brake issues in all of them. I’ve never owned a single car with brake issues other than warped rotors (Pretty much everything since 1992). My cousin went from Grand Cherokees to Outbacks for both he and his wife’s cars and so far, they are in love. I don’t get it.

    Mitsubishi: They made great TVs, boring and bad cars. I don’t think they make Tvs anymore. Too bad, both of mine still work after over 30 years.

    VW/Audi: Demonic cars, with issues that make you wonder if they aren’t purposely made that way.

    Fiat, non Chrysler: I don’t get the appeal of tiny ugly assed chickmobiles. Sorry, that’s what they are. You can deny it all you want to, but you know, deep down inside, it’s the truth.

    Toyota, non trucks: I used to like the Supra, but that was about it, nothing they make now appeals to me at all. The trucks are bad looking, but I wouldn’t cry too much if I had to drive one.

    • 0 avatar
      Vulpine

      While I will accept that ‘chicks’ love the little Fiat 500, I’m not a ‘chick’ and I love it too; it’s a remarkable little car that’s not only economical, but fun.

      Toyota does have a couple models I would at least consider, while VW has moved low on my list (on the other hand, if they did bring the Amarok over…). Mitsubishi used to have some decent cars, but you have to drop back to the ’80s and ’90s to find most of them while Subie has found a way to be both interesting and boring at the same time. Even Honda has a couple of interesting models, though I’ll admit I’ve never owned one.

      In my case, the winner of this contest (if you want to call it one) is FORD all the way. They’re not interesting, they’re not reliable and they’re too stuck up on themselves. They don’t have a single model I would buy for myself or family. In fact, I tend to recommend against the brand due to the many horror stories I hear about their quality–and I’m not just talking about their infotainment stack.

      • 0 avatar
        Luke42

        I’ve owned 4 Fords. With the exception of the Tempo, I’ve found them to be exceptionally repairable and durable, but not particularly reliable.

        Things wear out, but you can fix them (or have them fixed) relatively easily.

        P.S. The Tempo was such a POS that you had to have an engine hoist to swap the serpentine belt.

  • avatar
    mechaman

    Oh lord, where do I start? Toyota/Lexus, Mitsubishi, Nissan/Infiniti except for the Q50 (for uglying up the Altima, among other sins) , VW, for trying to be Audi (people hear Volkswagen, they think ECONOMY, not LUXURY, and that AIN’T gonna change maybe ever) Fiat (just don’t like ’em). Chrysler (you guys made the 200 look nice, but you still gotta atone for the grief I had with the Shadow and Summit). Oddly, I would have put GM on this list a few years ago, but not now … Hyundai as well…

  • avatar
    PentastarPride

    Oh, here we go. Here’s the makes I would never consider/have never considered:

    *Toyota/Lexus: I don’t buy things because I’m told to (in this case, because Consumer Reports tells me to). Toyota isn’t the holy grail of a good automotive purchase, they have problems too. Toyota and Lexus are the epitome of lazy car-buying decision-making. And, for quite a while now, their vehicular designs are very unattractive. I will admit that something like a 2005 Toyota Camry or a 2005 Lexus ES300 isn’t bad-looking, but that’s in the past. A new Sienna? Tundra? et cetera? That’s different.

    *Volkswagen/Audi: People love to bring up Chrysler whenenver reliability issues are discussed (and believe me, they’re not perfect), but Volkswagen and Audi has had terrible reliability issues for quite some time, mostly serious engine issues, including their diesels (and those are bought for their dependability). Most of their cars don’t look half bad (the Jetta actually has a respectable, conservatively styled dashboard that doesn’t look like it’s ripped out of an alien spaceship), but that’s not good enough.

    *Hyundai/Kia: Their cars aren’t good looking, and I have a feeling that they’re still just as disposable as their late-90s-00’s counterparts. I will admit that there’s a possibility that I may be wrong, but time will tell.

    *Mitsubishi: It’s common knowledge that they are the weakest of the Japanese brands, and not just in sales numbers or their small dealership network. Even though I despise the rabid rah-rah over Toyota, they are eons more dependable than the average Mitsubishi. What really got me was how a really slick car–the Dodge Stratus coupe–was doomed as it was a warmed-over Eclipse predestined to blow its head gasket before 200k miles. Add to the fact that they may leave the US at any moment; leaving ownership down the road uncertain because of the lack of parts availability and service.

    *Cadillac: Went from granny mobile (a negative) to a gangster mobile (a double negative). I don’t want to be seen in anything a gangster or a wannabe drives (and that includes the last-gen Chrysler 300, the older Mercedes S-Class and older Honda Civics and Accords with the big mufflers and spoilers, and other like vehicles).

    *Lincoln: What happened? The front ends on Lincolns these days are a major turnoff in my eyes. The last good-looking Lincolns were the Town Cars of the 1980s and the early to mid-1990s, in my opinion.

    *Nissan: I always thought that if I was to give in and buy an import, it would be a Nissan or an Infiniti, a Mercedes or (by a stretch) a Honda or Acura. They seem to be bitten by the ugliness bug lately.

    *Honda/Acura: Besides the Accord, I never really gave Honda a thought. Their interiors are so complicated and strange looking, and the Acura models just look strange with the big, boldened grille. The Accord has mostly distanced itself from the ugliness of the other models, though it still has the weird dashboard.

    *BMW: Again, the case of the older models looking better than the current or recent offerings. A early-2000s 3-series looked respectable and I felt that they were decent cars (my girlfriend had one a while ago), but everything they have produced in the last ten years or so looks ugly. And, unlike Mercedes-Benz, I never associated BMW as a luxury car. To me, they’re more like sports cars.

    *Mazda: Never interested me. They have been bitten by the ugly bug, too. It’s an automotive epidemic!

    *Subaru: Never interested me.

    *Jaguar/Land Rover/Range Rover: Why are they still around?

    *Buick: Why are they still around?

    *Any given supercar manufacturer: I don’t want a fast car, or a car that costs more than a home.

  • avatar
    Sjalabais

    Anything Opel or GM, really. Why spend money on what I know is crap – without being interesting?

  • avatar
    shaker

    Ford – I don’t want an undersized, turbocharged 3 or 4 cylinder engine lugging a relatively heavy car up and down Pennsylvania hills, and not getting anywhere near the EPA mileage ratings.

    Not to mention the potential for big repair bills when the snail locks up.

  • avatar
    stevelovescars

    I must have odd taste in cars. If I found a low-mile Saturn SW2 with a manual transmission I would buy it in a heartbeat. I had an SL2 manual back in 1998 and it was a great car. I never had a single issue with it, it was a decent car to drive. Yeah, they were a bit noisy but really no worse than a Mazda or small Honda at the time. Agreed, though, the L series was pretty bad, but again, they did offer a wagon which was the best looking version IMHO.

    I also owned a 2012 Fiat Abarth and I really loved driving it. It made me smile every day. And that’s pretty rare in the market these days. I only sold it when I got divorced and moved with my two kids to the snow belt.

    I would never BUY a new BMW. I like driving other people’s BMWs but I owned two of their cars and a motorcycle and they were the most troublesome vehicles I have ever owned. My VW Golf was a Honda in comparison.

  • avatar
    Joss

    Probably Mercedes because like many luxury brands it offers neither value or quality to match the price.

  • avatar
    Waftable Torque aka Daniel Ho

    I think the replies further confirms what I’ve already suspected: I don’t care what other people think of my consumer choices, as long as that choice is best for me. Your poison is my elixir, and vice versa.

  • avatar
    Wodehouse

    Lincoln in a tie with Acura. Not even the upcoming (never coming?) NSX can get me to “raise a grump” over Honda’s luxury arm.

  • avatar
    jimmyy

    Easy. Anything Ford or Chrysler. The brands are long term reliability disasters. The latest Consumer Reports documents their continuing reliability issues. Good luck with resale on those. If you buy one, you own it for life, else you give it away at trade-in. Only a financial fool would purchase a product which will take a resale hit because of reliability. Worse, driving them make you look like a union worker or a visitor driving a rental. Other than union solidarity, or a Ford or Chrysler employee, who else would buy?

    However, Mercedes, BMW, and Audi owners are even more foolish. They get bottom of the barrel Ford/Chrysler reliability at a higher price tag.

    • 0 avatar

      Who else would buy? Ford has about 225,000 employees world wide. In the U.S. alone, Ford sold almost 2.5 million vehicles in 2014. In 2013, Chrysler had about 52,000 employees and sold over 2 million Chrysler, Dodge and Ram cars and trucks.

      Do you think that Henry Ford paid his employees $5/day so they could afford Model Ts?

    • 0 avatar
      mechaman

      Odd, as I said in another post, the Ford and Audi I’ve owned have been reliable, the Chrysler products not. I didn’t buy the Ford on Union solidarity (although I am in a union .. and having worked two non-union jobs, I think I’ll STAY union, thanks) I got the Ford because the wife wanted a bigger car, I got a good deal on it, and it had a clean record. That’s it.

  • avatar
    tjh8402

    Doug, are you talking most number of models or greatest percentage of its lineup? By the first criteria, I’d go with Chevy. The only 3 models they have that I would ever consider putting my $ on or recommend someone else spend $ on are the Corvette, Camaro Z28 (and only the Z28), and the SS. Everything else they make is behind the competition to me and not worth looking at. Considering the number of different model lines Chevy has, I would guess this is the top. If we go by %, then Smart, Mitsubishi, Buick, and GMC since I’d never look at or likely recommend anything in their line ups, unless it was for “financial need”. You should also clarify how hypothetical this is. What I mean is a lot of people are ruling out Fiat and Mini based on the size of the vehicles. I have an Abarth, and granted, it only works because I’m a childless male who rarely carries back seat passengers and stuff (with the back seats folded, I think there’s sufficient space in the hatchback for two people). My parents have a 500 too, but they also have a Lincoln Town Car and a 3 series should the 500’s space be insufficient. 95% of the time, it’s enough and that’s the car they drive everywhere (its a 2012 with 95k miles on it).

  • avatar

    I think the young folks would categorize this as a first world problem. I wonder how James Robertson, the Detroit man who gained some fame (and a new Ford Taurus) when his 21 mile commute by foot became known, would answer this question. There are companies and cars that I like and some that I dislike, but if I need to get somewhere, I don’t really care what I drive. I’d drive any of the cars or brands mentioned above. Buy? That’s another question.

    Also, because of access to press fleet cars, I’ve literally gone from driving a supercharged Jaguar XF to having a Kia Sportage. Enthusiasm and luxury aside, a car is a car.

    I will say that even if I could afford them, I wouldn’t buy a Porsche or a Ferrari because I think they go out of their way to exploit their well-heeled customers and play favorites among them, like picking and choosing which of their customers will get to buy their latest limited edition FXX style track car. From what I’ve been told by a Ferrari dealer, it’s not really a myth that the folks back in Maranello would rather your first Ferrari be a used one and that new-to-the-brand customers might face a “long waiting period” when they order a car.

    Also, Chris Harris getting blacklisted for revealing how Ferrari supplies ringers for road tests doesn’t endear the company to me. They have, however, made some great cars.

    Porsche’s “918 Edition 911”, to give folks waiting for their near million dollar toy something to drive in the meantime, is another example.

    Sure, it’s all about the cash and there are still people waiting in line at Ferrari and Porsche dealers screaming “take my money!”, but it doesn’t make the companies’ behavior less crass.

    • 0 avatar
      mechaman

      I like your reasoning. I had to tell a young man in my church that winning a Porsche wouldn’t be as pleasant as he initially thought it would (no, he hadn’t won it, and didn’t). Count the cost, I told him. Well, his face dropped. “That much?” he said. “Yep. Gotta be able to buy two to keep one.” Would be fun to drive one, though …

    • 0 avatar
      Big Al from Oz

      @Ronnie,
      I do think many, and by the sounds of it yourself lose sight of the fact that a huge bulk of people who buy a vehicle don’t have the luxury that seems to be apparent by many of the commenters on TTAC.

      That is namely, having adequate resources to buy a vehicle you want, rather than the need to have a vehicle to do the shopping and as an only form of transport in which to survive in todays modern “Western” society.

      In most situations some form of mobility is a necessity, irrespective of whether it’s public transport or personal. As was highlighted a week ago with the article regarding mass transit many of our societies are built around the motor vehicle.

      Have a look at many of the new vehicle sales in the US. They are very long term loans. It appears many who apply for these loans really can’t afford a vehicle. So, they buy what ever manufacturer provides the easiest finance. Do they really care about branding?

      No. They just want the ability to get to and from work.

      What I’m stating is I’d bet my balls that a large portion who buy a new vehicle don’t buy what the want. They buy a need.

      This is life, and it beats walking or riding a bike.

      Because most every comment made regarding what a person would buy or not buy in this thread is pure crap. If push came to shove they would buy what the claim they wouldn’t.

  • avatar
    mechaman

    I think this post gives the lie to ‘objectivity’ in car reviews; for every thumbs down on one model, another gives thumbs up. In my case, the worst models I’ve owned were Honda, Chrysler, and Mitsubishi. The best have been Ford, Nissan and Audi. My Audi 500 beater was a better car than my Chrysler/Mitsubishi(s). As far as Consumer Reports goes, their claims to objectivity fall on deaf ears in my case: while my beef with them is not over a car, and I won’t go into detail here, when someone sends you info that DIRECTLY contradicts what was said in a ‘review’, and you refuse to consider it at all, I don’t think you get to call yourself ‘objective’ after that. Odd, but the post started with considering the Saturn series: one of my co-worker has an Ion with the oddball rear door, he has a pretty long commute to work, but he’s had little problems with his car (of course I don’t know how he maintains it, but if his work is any evidence, he’s pretty well on it) and it looks showroom new. OTOH, stories about VW have held me back from shopping them, but if I got a deal that I couldn’t beat … I’d have to think about it. Bottom line, I ain’t buying anything I don’t like, reputation or not!

  • avatar

    I mostly agree with the silent majority – would never buy Toyota. Will never buy SUV so it essentially rules out Mitsu since they do not make cars anymore, would not buy even if they made cars. I wanted to add Chevy to the list but then realized that they make Camaro. I would rather buy Buick than Chevy and actually wanted to buy Regal not so long ago – Malibu – never. I Buick makes Camaro based car then I would never buy Chevy.

    What else, would never buy any Nissan except of their sports cars. I never liked Nissans in 80s, never liked them in 90s and don’t like them now. I would rather buy Infinity but I have a feeling that couple more of product flops and cancellations and I will never buy Infinity either. Infinity G was in my short list two years ago but they cancelled it so nothing to buy now.

    If you asked me couple of years ago I would say that I would never buy Cadillac because they made half baked products. But now I find CTS and especially ATS very compelling. Yeah like ATS whatever DW thinks about.

    Cars that I would actually consider are from Ford/Lincoln, Mazda, Hyundai/Kia, Buick/Cadillac, Audi. But to make things clear in the end I always was a Ford fan.

  • avatar
    Big Al from Oz

    I’ll add my two cents worth again.

    Maybe the title for this article should of been, “What Vehicle Brand do you Like Bashing the Most”. Its more apt.

    From my reading of TTAC it appears to have a relatively high number of what I’d term well off middle class commenters. So, how relevant is their input.

    They have the resources to buy a want and not a need.

    Maybe a the title should of been,
    If You are Unemployed and Found a Job Paying $12 an Hour What Vehicle Would You Buy?”

    • 0 avatar
      mechaman

      That’s a good point. You gotta figure in your note, insurance, mpg, function (will it fit the family) and such. Which is why everyone ain’t drivin’ the same thing. Tonight, I saw four Azteks. Yep, four. In good shape by the looks of ’em. So what that tell ya?

  • avatar

    People are using toyota as an example just to be cute. Maybe it makes people feel unique knocking the worlds top carmaker.

    • 0 avatar
      mechaman

      Not me, I don’t go along with that ‘they’re the biggest, so they must suck’ ideology. I just don’t like most of their cars .. last years Camry looked ok, but not this years. Oh, I know about their reliability reputation. It’s been my experience that reliability is a prime function of maintenance .. with the exception of systems/parts that shouldn’t fail in a reasonable time. After putting 100k on an alternator, for example, I expect to replace it..

  • avatar
    Dave W

    Honda.

    After 4 years with a first generation Accord (great car except for…)I get a sore back within 15 minutes sitting in their seats. When I was young it would recover after getting out. not any longer. Tried various Civics, CRX, Accords, etc. over the years and gave up in the 90s. I thought it had been long enough that they had changed their seats, or at least my back had recovered, that I tried a Fit the last time I was in the market, no go, 10 minutes into the test drive my back was killing me. The funny thing was that because my wife and I both owned Honda Accords (hers a 2nd gen. same issue) when Acura came out the dealer invited us to test drives. Every single Acura, same F’ing thing.

  • avatar
    ceipower

    I can’t see me ever spending money for any GM product , and that goes to a lessor extent with Ford. Have owned just about every brand , foreign & domestic. None were perfection on wheels , but for sheer arrogance of both dealer and manufacturer , GM can’t be beat.

  • avatar
    mechaman

    I think I saw every make mentioned but Volvo and Saab? I could be wrong, but what does that mean? Once again, I say that gives the lie to objectivity ..

    • 0 avatar
      Dave W

      Crab spirits mentions Volvo. The newest SAABs in my local SAAB dealers inventory are a couple of 2011s so it’s not like SAAB is even making anything to scorn.

      • 0 avatar
        mechaman

        I must have missed that, I tried searching the page for the names. But Saturn is gone as well, so I assumed (within reason) that any make was fair game. Yugo didn’t cross my mind until someone else mentioned it .. but so far, if you put all the ‘never buy’ together, that’s damn near everyone who makes a car. If I had the cash to buy a well kept Saab, I’d do it .. I’m picky, but not that damn picky. Well, there is the exception of the latest Camry iteration. I DO have my limits. Yech.

  • avatar
    Trichobezoar

    Eh, I’m sure I could learn to cope with any make of car if I happened to move to some communist country that made everyone buy just that. Even if it was a total clunker and I had to keep it in a garage as furniture while I rode my bike around.

    When I was a kid, though, I did learn a certain revulsion to Mercedes. Something about the smell and ride just nauseates me. The faux “luxury engineered” marketing in parts of the world also doesn’t endear me to the brand or the people who fall for it.

    That said, I do enjoy reading about the occasional diesel with 500k on the odometer, or that couple who drove a custom Mercedes around the world. Must take some special people to put up with that!

  • avatar

    all GM brands but Cadillac. and Kia, Hyundai and Peugeot.

  • avatar
    tjh8402

    I’m having a hard time understanding all the hate for Toyota here. Yes their products are bland, but they are not bad places to be. I’ve had Camry’s and Corollas as rentals and their good cars. No they’re not exciting, but they get great fuel economy, are comfortable, user friendly, and as a purchase, you can anticipate great reliability and depreciation. I wouldn’t choose to buy one (I just bought a car and its an Abarth, so a little different), but if someone came and gave me one to drive for 5 years, I’d happily take it.

  • avatar
    Djfunkmasterg

    Toyota and GM for me. Nothing they produce appeals to me, however, if given the choice I would take a GM over a Toyota

  • avatar

    Brands I would never ever consider

    Volvo, Saab, Acura, Honda, Toyota, Mitsubishi, Mercedes

    Brands that have very few models I would consider

    Chrysler, Fiat, any GM brand, Ford

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