By on January 7, 2015

“That’s not going to happen…Either you have to bring your volume aspirations into alignment with reality and accept that you will sell fewer cars. Or you have to drop the price and continue to transact at the prices where you were historically. I think the logical conclusion is that it’s better to build off a very solid base in terms of [product] credibility, charge a fair price for the car and realize you have to wait until the volume comes.”

That quote was from Cadillac boss John De Nysschen in response to questions about cutting the prices of Cadillac models, which some dealers complained has risen too quickly. How quickly that’s changed.

Automotive News reports that the 2015 Cadillac CTS models with a V6 engine will get a $3,000 price cut. Select models equipped with a 4-cylinder engine will get a $2,000 cut. The base price of $46,340 remains unchanged, while the top trim V-Sport with a twin turbo V6 engine will stay at $71,880.

A Cadillac memo described the move as “a more compelling price point for our returning CTS loyalists when moving up into a new, more sophisticated 2015 CTS.” Inventories of the CTS remained bloated through much of the year, with many Cadillac dealers complaining that prices of the CTS had risen sharply, alienating existing customers. Despite a brand new model, CTS sales were down 4 percent year over year in 2014.

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122 Comments on “De Nysschen Back Tracks As Cadillac CTS Gets $3,000 Price Cut...”


  • avatar
    APaGttH

    Amazing what shrinking marketshare in what is a boom market, where your competitors, direct and indirect are killing you. What? Even hapless Lincoln grew marketshare?

    We have to do something!

    • 0 avatar

      Whether it’s Navigator vs. Escalade, MKS vs. XTS or MKZ vs. CTS, Cadillac costs too damned much and for the most part, it’s not worth it.

      The “enthusiasts” can talk about “corner carving” and “Nurburgkingrings” but in the end of the day, these cars are being bought by retirees who are old enough to remember the days when owning a Lincoln or Cadillac was like owning a Mercedes S-Class or BMW – 7.

      Meanwhile, they give you less and charge you more.

      Compare SRT/HELLCAT sales to the sales of Lincoln MKS Ecoboost, XTS-V sport, CTS-V sport and CTS-V series.

      Compare Charger sales to ATS-V sport sales…

      All you get is LULZ.

      “but people want sensible fuel economy and lighter vehicles”

      WRONG: People want a one-size-fits-all that can go from carrying a family of 4 or 5 to doing burnouts and running the quarter mile in less than 13 seconds.

      Slap on a sub-$60,000 price tag and that’s how deals are made.

      • 0 avatar
        DeadWeight

        Update: These cars SUCK & Cadillac is now desperate to move both the CTS with $17,500.00 off MSRP, and the equally, if not more sh!tty ATS with $14,000.00 off MSRP!

        http://www.carscoops.com/2015/02/cadillac-has-hard-time-selling-ats-and.html

        This vindicates my position all along that:

        1) All three motors in these SUCK

        2) These ride like sh!t (there’s a non-refined, harsh, non-premium ride with no reward – very un-Cadillac and far less comfortable than 3 Series BMW, Mercedes C Class or Audi A4)

        3) Back seat room and trunk space blows

        4) Gauge cluster sucks

        5) Build quality & reliability sucks

        6) Overpriced

        7) Hideous exterior

    • 0 avatar
      Sob93

      The ATS is too tiny, the CTS has a tired design theme and the glorified Yukon called Escalade is the biggest rip off. I’ll shop @ my Lincoln BMW Audi and Buick dealerships.

    • 0 avatar
      DeadWeight

      Regardless as to how/what one subjectively feels about the merits or lack thereof of Cadillac’s products & leadership, Jack not only NAILED the forecast for the ATS (and CTS), but did so back in 2012 (and take care to read the comments pursuant to that op/ed, too, wherein many of the B&B nailed it, also):

      https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2012/05/how-gm-could-save-the-cadillac-ats-from-its-otherwise-inevitable-fate-of-complete-marketplace-failure/

      • 0 avatar
        mjz

        Cadillac will NEVER be successful as a BMW/Mercedes wannabe. Unless the braintrust now ensconced in their posh digs in NYC can figure that out, they are doomed to market irrelevance. The only Cadillac that currently embodies the spirit of Cadillac is the Escalade, and that is, at best, a tuxedoed Tahoe. JdN needs to swallow his pride, and reign in his ego, and cut all Cadillac sedan prices by 10%. ELR needs a 25% cut. If Cadillac sales continue to plummet, JdN and his Jimmie Choo wearing, Soho dwelling marketing geniuses will soon be pounding the pavement looking for work. The Cadillac dealer body will make sure of that.

        • 0 avatar
          Lie2me

          Any brand that tries too hard to be cool, isn’t

          Andy Warhol should have said that right after the 15 minute thing

          • 0 avatar
            mjz

            Exactly, Cadillac should not try to be cool. Cadillac should not try to be BMW. Or Mercedes. Cadillac should try to be Cadillac once again.

        • 0 avatar
          APaGttH

          Cadillac can definitely be successful as a BMW wannabe in particular if BMW continues it’s full speed ahead race to the bottom that they are in the name of driving market share.

          They’re over-segmented and even the BMW faithful are saying have lost their soul.

          Luxury appliances sell well – and I agree with Derek that what is starting to pass off for “luxury” these days is getting thin.

    • 0 avatar

      start with immediately firing Steve Hill and replace him with no one.

  • avatar
    bball40dtw

    Today is DeadWeight’s personal Christmas.

  • avatar
    DeadWeight

    It’s no fun anymore.

    It’s like picking on a regard.

  • avatar
    Hummer

    You have to be some kind of special to drop 72k on a high strung V6.

    Wasn’t the outgoing CTS-V with the supercharged 6.2l about that price?
    Similar fuel consumption as well, more in favor of the V8 if actually wound up.
    Also 150? more horsepower.

    3k isn’t going make a difference, heck a 20k drop on that V-sport would still be too little.

    • 0 avatar

      You can spec an Outlander to $42k and you think $51k for a twin-turbo CTS would be too heady?

      • 0 avatar
        Hummer

        Outlanders aren’t exactly flying off the lot, but yes, a twin turbo V6 in a small/compact that costs 51k is as much as a decently optioned Duramax… and is much less prestigious than the duramax in 90% of the country.

        That’s with a 20k price cut to the V-sport, mind you.

      • 0 avatar
        Lie2me

        Both can be terribly wrong. I don’t think pricing on a bell curve is the best approach, but I guess it’s how it’s done sometime

      • 0 avatar

        I think a lot has to do with the cost of money now. They can float that loan at a very small percentage. If the interest rates were, say, 9 %, you’d see a lower overall price because the financed (monthly) cost would be higher due to the interest.

        These cars roll or not on the monthly note. Caddy would love the BMW/MB business model of lease first, CPO second.

        I am endlessly fascinated by the marketing of these appliances.

    • 0 avatar
      johnny_5.0

      I was a little shocked by that number too, but I’m guessing Derek means the Premium trim V-Sport as the base is really $60K. While the new turbo LF3 is plenty stout, I still don’t understand why they are forsaking the thing they are awesome at which is building V8 engines. A $45K 2.0T is fine for CAFE reasons, but they should offer a $50K LT1/8 speed model. I’d go test drive that right now. Even a more realistic $55K for that would move a lot more metal. You’d get 550i performance for 535i money. At a bare minimum they need pricing that aggressive to really kick ass and take names (not even bringing up the myriad other issues they face).

      • 0 avatar
        dal20402

        The LT1 isn’t a Cadillac engine and can’t really be made into one. It vibrates, rumbles, and bellows. The LF3 is quite a lot more refined.

        • 0 avatar
          johnny_5.0

          One could argue that GM’s 2.0T isn’t refined enough for a Cadillac either but that didn’t stop them ;).

          • 0 avatar
            dal20402

            Fair point… But then again only VW/Audi has a 2.0T that’s any more refined. The competition’s sixes and eights do better.

          • 0 avatar
            DeadWeight

            It’s just like Jack said: GM never should’ve played the Germans on their own terms.

            Cadillac, as a matter of heritage & an iconic brand (maybe now permanently tainted) should’ve played to its core strength of masculine, bold, powerful, comfortable, commanding vehicles with a snorting, torque rich V8 under every hood.

          • 0 avatar
            dal20402

            The problem with that strategy is that only two audiences, in general, have any interest in that sort of car: 1) people older than dirt, and 2) people in socioeconomic classes that typically can’t afford new $90k cars.

          • 0 avatar
            DeadWeight

            Dal, it’s arguable that the only vehicle representing some of the traditional attributes of the Cadillac heritage currently in production is the Escalade (unfortunately, IMO, as it’s a rebadged GMC/Chevy SUV, albeit with a nicer interior) it’s a huge seller for Cadillac, it’s without a doubt Cadillac’s most profitable vehicle by far, and I see way more 55 and under somethings driving them than 55 and over somethings.

            Fair points?

    • 0 avatar
      APaGttH

      You can drop almost $80K on a 4-cylinder 5-series as Jack pointed in the last 12 to 18 months. Take a look at the Porsche option sheets and how quickly you can move one of those into insane land.

      Heck you can drop over $50K on a V6 Genesis optioned up.

      Never mind pushing darn close to $70K if not more on a 3/4 ton cowboy Cadillac pick-em’ up truck from any of the big three.

      The CTS-V isn’t all that insanely priced for what you get (there are a lot of nice options in that price range and lower admittedly)

      • 0 avatar
        Hummer

        Yea but at least that 70k on the pickup has a V8, fullsize room with an actual backseat, high reliability, cheap highly availible parts as part of having high sale numbers.

        The 72k one spends on this car with said package gets a premium, not lux, badge with a 6 cylinder engine on what is basically a compact car.

        There’s no reason for the builder of arguably the best V8 engine in the world to not offer it on anything that can be priced over 40k.

      • 0 avatar
        tekdemon

        There’s something wrong with the reply system so I had to post my reply as a new post below.

  • avatar
    NoGoYo

    So you basically get 3 grand off without having to do anything.

    …Why not just lower the base price?

    • 0 avatar
      Lie2me

      I’m sure it has something to do with accounting

    • 0 avatar
      DeadWeight

      Much, much more.

      Even GM loyalists have noticed the $12,000 to $20,000 discounts:

      http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f21/so-cadillac-has-problem-189609/

      Cliff notes:New CTS For less than 30k. V-Sport CTS FOR NEAR 50K.

    • 0 avatar
      geeber

      I’m guessing that the business case for both the ATS and CTS required the cars to sell at a certain price, with the expectation that they would increase their combined volume over the volume of the former CTS.

      Pch101 is better, though, at explaining these things.

    • 0 avatar
      ect

      As I read it, they’re dropping the price of mid- and/or higher-range models, without dropping the price of the base model.

      Most people will buy something beyond the base model, so this could be an attempt to make the pricing of their best sellers more attractive against the competition AND make it easier to sell the “upgrade” because of how much more you get for just a little more money.

      There could also be some internal politics at play – Buick and Chevy will be keen to see significant daylight between their similarly-sized offerings and Cadillac’s.

      And De Nysschen saves face because he can say he’s merely adjusting a few models, while maintaining his overall perfect pricing strategy. Never underestimate importance of ego in executive management.

  • avatar
    Timtoolman

    Judging from what I’ve read about them, the new Caddies are supposed to be legitimate competition to the likes of BMW and the rest. I’ve been a bit skeptical they could pull off what (I believe) was a $7,000 price increase on the CTL. You have to start somewhere, so why not go high and then discount as needed?

    Still, losing big chunks of sales and market share doesn’t look good on paper, when most people won’t look past the headline.

  • avatar
    Lie2me

    I know this is DeadWeight’s spotlight, but with all this constant back-pedaling I’m actually becoming embarrassed for John De Nysschen. Can this man do anything without looking like a tool?

    • 0 avatar
      psarhjinian

      “Can this man do anything without looking like a tool?”

      Well, that’s interesting. He knows one trick, and it worked really well at Audi. Or at least, it coincided with Audis getting a whole lot better during his tenure while Mercedes got worse and Saab, Volvo and Jaguar imploded.

      It didn’t really work at Infiniti, and he bailed before it stuck to him.

      Well, now he’s at GM, which is kind of the ultimate reality, and doesn’t have anything like an Audi “bump” to rely on. He’s also not nearly as “in charge” as he thinks or hopes he is (hence that he can’t rename the Escalade). This may be his reckoning.

      I think, if he’s lucky, he can bail before GM realizes that renaming models and increasing pricing worked once because of a combination of luck and good product, and that he’s really not all that good at his job.

      In other words, before the funk of failure starts to cling.

      • 0 avatar
        Lie2me

        “In other words, before the funk of failure starts to cling.”

        You mean before the sh!t hits the fan

        So, what’s this “Audi trick” that worked?

        • 0 avatar
          28-Cars-Later

          Renaming every model to be 1,2,3,4,5 etc.

        • 0 avatar
          psarhjinian

          “So, what’s this “Audi trick” that worked?”

          Renaming the 4000/5000/80/100 line as A4/A6/A8.

          It worked, but _just coincidentally_ Audi released the B5-based A4 and C5 A6, both of which were really, really good cars for the time: the platform was very sound and the interior were a out-of-the-ballpark hit.

          de Nysschen may have been just lucky to have been handed the single best lineup-wide refresh in automotive history by VW’s engineers.

      • 0 avatar
        Jimal

        He reminds me of college basketball coach Rick Pitino; swoop in to turn things around then disappear into the night before the sanctions start raining down.

      • 0 avatar
        thornmark

        >>Well, that’s interesting. He knows one trick, and it worked really well at Audi. Or at least, it coincided with Audis getting a whole lot better during his tenure <<

        The latter, obviously. It's just bizarre that this guy receives credit in some journalists' renderings for the success of Audi's German cars in America.

        Sure, he was there. But we'll all see eventually that Audi's success was not due to him from his later lack of success at Infiniti and Cadillac. Not that those failures were/will be his either.

      • 0 avatar
        tedward

        Extremely good point about the timing. You know what though, he may not be aware of this himself. Everyone at Audi rode that product onslaught to success, he’s just made the mistake of imagining himself at the center of it.

        On the other hand I believe the truck market shows that giving or taking a few decimal points is hardly a deciding factor in perceived value. Chevy would have renamed everything decades ago if that were the case. 2500 vs. F-250 anyone?

  • avatar
    Nedmundo

    I’m not surprised at all, because IMO Cadillac’s recent pricing has been way too aggressive given its history, even though the cars have improved dramatically. They should have solidified their place in the market, and only priced themselves like BMW and Lexus when the market would recognize the equivalence. With the overly aggressive pricing, they might need to again rely on big rebates to move the metal — a practice that previously confirmed that Cadillac (and the rest of GM) was out of touch with the market.

  • avatar
    DeadWeight

    Comment eaten: New CTS for 30k and new CTS V-Sport for 50k – even GM fanboys are ripping Johan:

    http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f21/so-cadillac-has-problem-189609/

  • avatar
    Domestic Hearse

    Brand voodoo gurus, otherwise known as Ron Zarella 2.0.

    How long they can continue to blow smoke up their own a$$es, as well as that belonging to Mary Berra and those belonging to the media remains to be seen. Not much longer, I’m guessing.

    Hopefully somebody puts a stop to this train wreck and escorts these people out of the building, then finds someone to sublease their expensive NYC office space.

  • avatar
    Fred

    On a side note, I saw my first CTS wagon in the wild. Parked at the grocery store, all black. Also noticed they no longer list it on the web site.

  • avatar
    sportyaccordy

    Forget DeadWeight….

    O danio, o danio… where fore art thou, danio?!?!?!?????

    de Nysschen’s last hurrah. Elon Musk without the hype or product…

    • 0 avatar
      danio3834

      Sup?

      • 0 avatar
        sportyaccordy

        Wats it gonna take for u to throw in the towel and stop defending this slo mo trainwreck

        • 0 avatar
          danio3834

          Is this supposed to be some sort of schadenfreude? I have no skin in this game…

          I get that you don’t like the Cadillac brand, and that branding is an important source of personal identification for you, but just because I don’t gratuitously slam Cadillac three times in every thread à la DW doesn’t mean I’m in defense of them.

          I’ve pointed out some of their strengths and how I agree that a higher pricing strategy is desirable. I’ve also noted some of the challenges they must overcome to get there, or quit trying if they really can’t generate the pricing power to compete with the rest (note I didn’t say the best). Calling them a train wreck is an obvious exaggeration, but they are saddled with volume and market share at-all-cost GM management.

          • 0 avatar
            bunkie

            As a serial Cadillac owner, I have to agree. The new CTS is a very nice car. I can understand that people don’t like the styling, that’s fair enough.

            What’s needed to make the CTS a truly great car is a better powertrain. I agree that motors that vibrate have no place in luxury cars. Last time around, I shopped an A4 and, while fun to drive, the turbo four was a real paint mixer.

            My last Cadillac had a Northstar which was an absolute delight (smooth as glass, fat, flat torque curve and a nice soft growl when pushed). If I could buy a new version of that car I would, but Cadillac doesn’t make it any more.

            I love my CTS wagon, but the powertrain is a real disappointment. I get barely better mileage than the Northstar, it’s wimpy and it’s unrefined. It diminishes the character of the car.

            And, to be fair, the same can be said about the BMW 3-series. We shopped the previous-gen 3 and I really liked it. My sister’s current-gen 3 seems flabby and rough by comparison.

            I suspect that the real future of luxury cars is pure electric power, but that’s a few years off. If the new 400 mile range Tesla was less expensive, it would be my next car.

  • avatar
    Davekaybsc

    So charge BMW money, watch your sales crater, and then wait for your brand’s cachet to slowly rise up to meet your MSRPs. Has this strategy EVER worked for ANYONE?

    Did the former Audi mastermind pay NO attention to what Audi did in the ’90s through mid ’00s with their pricing? Or Lexus during the same period? Both brands significantly *undercut* BMW and Mercedes pricing. Audi now charges parity because *they can get it*. They became class competitive with the B5 A4, and it took them three more generations of cars before they started asking comparable money as a 3 series for the B8 A4.

    Cadillac – maybe wait until your third ATS revision before you start charging BMW money. A couple of good magazine reviews doesn’t mean you somehow immediately equal the BMW brand.

    • 0 avatar
      sportyaccordy

      Its kinda like a couple of kids sitting on each other’s shoulders showing up at a six figure job interview. Not yet sport.

      Biggest tragedy is the ATS/CTS aren’t bad cars. So GM has finally figured out how to not do that. But the whole Cadillac strategy is just a rolling testament to GM’s management incompetence.

    • 0 avatar
      tekdemon

      Even now Audi still throws in some free goodies to tilt things their way (like actual leather seats), and this strategy of offering a better value is really the only way any car company can keep up their huge fixed costs (factories ain’t cheap) while building up a luxury brand. Cadillac’s strategy doesn’t make any business or financial sense-if nobody buys their overpriced cars and the few people who do get punished with awful residuals (from a glut of unsold cars as well as overinflated MSRP) then who is going to be left to spread the good word of mouth? It’s like a sales strategy straight out of Bizarro world where scaring away your customers is supposed to increase sales.

  • avatar

    It seems this country is declining in everything.

  • avatar
    bball40dtw

    So when the Alpha Camaro comes out, why should I choose the ATS over it? Aside from it having two doors to a worthless back seat.

  • avatar
    bball40dtw

    So when the Alpha Camaro comes out, why should I choose the ATS over it? Bes!des having two extra doors to a worthless back seat, I can’t think of a reason. Maybe the melty transformers logo is better than the giant gold bowtie?

    • 0 avatar
      dal20402

      Because if the next Camaro is like the current model it will have the interior quality of a Scion tC. The ATS isn’t ideal but it’s leagues better than a current Camaro.

      Also, I wouldn’t want to be challenged to races by every bruh in a Mustang.

  • avatar
    cartunez

    Power train wise Cadillac is ok but on fit and finish they aren’t even at the level of the 1990 Honda Accord.

    • 0 avatar
      SC5door

      Obviously you have no idea what you’re talking about.

      The Honda 2.4L easily trashes the Cadillac 2.5L, and the Honda V-6 is highly regarded for refinement. GM’s 3.6L I haven’t heard otherwise.

      Cadillac has much better fit and finish than a 1990 Honda.

      • 0 avatar
        ajla

        Yes, I would love to spend $33K-$50K on a Cadillac with the same engine in a $19K-$24K BASE Colorado or Camaro. SUCH LUXURY!

        Save the Cimarron, even bad “Old GM” never pulled that crap. The HT4100 might have sucked but at least it exclusively sucked to Cadillac.

      • 0 avatar
        cartunez

        Right I have no idea I have only owned both. I did say the power train was ok. Ok doesn’t mean better than or even equal too. Explaining fit and finish would be the quality of the materials, the way the body panels and interior panels fit together etc etc. I stand by my statement as a prior owner of both 1990 White Accord Sedan and of 2009 CTS V. I loved the power train (on the V) but the build quality was/is for shit.

  • avatar
    28-Cars-Later

    JdN – I respect the decision but its easy to knock off a few grand when you’re 15-20K overpriced to begin with and especially after severely increasing the MSRP over three model years. Catera is a mid 30Kish car at best in the base trim, 46K is a pipe dream. Call me when you’ve accepted the reality and have CT MelodyLee do a press release.

    • 0 avatar
      Lie2me

      End of year clearance CTS’ are already $15-20K off MSRP now, so if this $3K is for MY2015 there’s still plenty of wiggle room

      • 0 avatar
        28-Cars-Later

        Link?

        This local dealer still wants 43K+ for their MY14 four bangers.

        http://www.rohrichcadillac.com/VehicleSearchResults?pageContext=VehicleSearch&search=new&make=Cadillac&modelPrefix=CTS

      • 0 avatar
        DeadWeight

        GM Ness forums thread w/50k CTS V-Sport and 30k CTS:

        http://www.gm!s!denews.com/forums/f21/so-cadillac-has-problem-189609/

        *replace ! s with i s

        • 0 avatar
          28-Cars-Later

          Thx for the link, this poster says it best:

          “Interesting reversal. Things must be really, really, really bad out there in Cadillac land.”

          http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f15/breaking-gm-cuts-price-cadillac-cts-191929/

          This is the link those guys were referring too apparently:

          New 2014 Cadillac CTS Sedan 3.6L Twin Turbo V6 RWD Vsport Premium

          MSRP $72,740
          Hendrick Price $56,740
          Hendrick Savings $16,000

          http://www.hendrickbuickgmccadillac.com/VehicleDetails/new-2014-Cadillac-CTS_Sedan-3.6L_Twin_Turbo_V6_RWD_Vsport_Premium-Kansas_City-MO/2230871803

          So since the V6 should just be fricking STANDARD in the CTS (with a credit for the I4), I’m going to say this tops is a 38K car being offered for 56K with evidently now a 3K rebate from JdN and its going to be worth 35K the moment you drive it off the lot. Did I miss something?

        • 0 avatar
          DeadWeight

          Here it is again:

          http://www.gm1ns1denews.com/forums/f21/so-cadillac-has-problem-189609/

        • 0 avatar
          28-Cars-Later

          Thx, I replied but I had to feed the rancor.

        • 0 avatar
          Hummer

          That Hendrick building/lot is our old HUMMER dealership.

          He’s surrounded by a ton of other dealerships willing to offer cars that are priced at reasonable numbers by the manufacturer. That and the guy has plenty of money I’m sure they’re just trying to get rid of the massive inventory of crap so they can get trucks, SUVs, and crossovers that do sell.

          • 0 avatar
            DeadWeight

            They likewise turned an old Hummer dealer into a new Cadillac Dealer about 18 miles from where I live.

            Jim Riehl’s Friendly Cadillac in Clinton Township, MI.

            Cadillac is a FUBAR mess. They’re attempting to sell BMW/MB priced Cadillacs out of a faux Quonset hut style building.

      • 0 avatar
        tekdemon

        They really should have just chopped the MSRP down instead of throwing huge incentives on these (Cadillac’s website says there’s $8000 on the hood for a regular CTS and I’m sure dealers are willing to negotiate) since the residuals will be horrible. If they at least chopped the price then people who actually buy cars may look more at the CTS. The majority of sales in this class are leases and with the awful residual the 5 series leases for even money with the CTS despite a much higher MSRP.

        • 0 avatar
          DeadWeight

          I agree that they’d be way further ahead slashing MSRPs by a hefty amount rather than keep piling inevitably larger stacks of cash on the hood (is $20k on the ELR the most so far; I see $15k to $18k on the CTS V-Sport?).

          But they won’t. It’s GM. They’ll do the least logical route.

          The real trouble will come when the CT-6 debuts, which will give even more sticker shock to any dwindling remaining potential Cadillac buyers, and it will just get worse from there.

          If the CT-6 isn’t a BETTER vehicle than the MB E-Class AT A LOWER PRICE, it’s doomed.

          • 0 avatar
            DeadWeight

            What I should’ve wrote is that if the upcoming CT6 isn’t close to the S Class for significantly less, it’s doomed.

            It should be a truly excellent all-out, no excuses luxury car, priced like a loaded E Class. Otherwise, what’s the reason anyone will pick it over a high end E Class or lower spec S Class?

            But there’s not a snowball’s chance in he!! that it will be any such vehicle.

  • avatar

    Falling behind audi in sales was the final straw in 2014. It is a kick in the groin.

    • 0 avatar
      redav

      So, de Nysschen did such a great job at Audi that even though he’s been gone for a while now, his success still dominates the market? He should put that on his resume instead of his work at Infiniti or Cadillac.

  • avatar

    KILL THE CADILLAC BRAND

    I am going out on a limb here, but at this point what cachet does it have? To a shrinking pool of a few loyalists in God’s waiting room, it has cachet. To me, a baby boomer, it is hard to get past the Cimarron. GM needs to kill a spoiled brand, and come up with a new brand. Just like they did with GEO and SATURN.. wait…

    • 0 avatar
      28-Cars-Later

      +1,000,000,000,000,000,000. YES WE CAN!

    • 0 avatar
      ajla

      I agree. Kill it. If GM 100% needs a luxury brand then start over in 2020.

    • 0 avatar
      SC5door

      Really? Getting past the Cimarron? Are people past all the little rattle trap “Jap Crap” yet too?

      You need a better excuse.

      The problem GM has is that its put too much faith into building cars that people say they “want” and then never buy. Build a BMW fighter they say: Sales Flopped. Bring us the “SS”: Dud. Imagine if they brought a G8 ST or Wagon: Probably would have flopped too.

      Cadillac should have aimed for Lexus first. How? Don’t build some half a$$ attempt trying to later refresh it to fix the flaws, do it right the first time! Prime example was the SRX: Launched with 2 boat anchor engines, only to be “refreshed” with the proper 3.6L and fixed interior.

      • 0 avatar
        cartunez

        Aim for Lexus? Dude you must be smoking that legalized marijuana. Nothing GM currently makes can even touch the original Lexus 400. The only thing Cadillac has is that V8 supercharger combo. Other than give me “Jap Crap” as you put it.

      • 0 avatar
        28-Cars-Later

        I can get past the Cimmaron and maybe even the 4100 & Crapstar, what I can’t get past is being completely out of touch with what a Cadillac is for nearly fifteen years.

        I do agree though with “be Lexus”. A healthy mix of truly supreme models (actual “Cadillacs”) and lesser brand rebadges both done to a high standard of materials, fit, and finish (i.e. there should have been a Zeta Fleetwood, there should have been a Catera convertible early on). The only snag is since Buick lost its identity some time ago, it has had to become the “lesser brand model done better” so to speak. Therefore Buick’s lineup would have to also be rethought. My proposal for some time was to simply eliminate any remaining standalone Cadillac dealers, and turn whats left of the brand into a *low* volume luxury exotic where the cars not only start at 80K but they are WORTH buying at 80K, not a sad 30K car for that figure. GM does the opposite with sad Pontiac intended volume models like ATS and now CTS.

        Resale always tells a story…

        • 0 avatar
          sportyaccordy

          Most 80K cars are not worth 80K… as you said, resale tells a story, and most luxury cars lose most of their value pretty much right away. Most 80K cars are leased as well as owners know these cars are not worth keeping for longer than that. So Caddy has to convince people that their cars are basically fashion items, which is pretty much impossible. It’s like trying to rebrand Bill Blass to compete with Versace. The tides of perception and brand history are pretty much impossible to overcome.

      • 0 avatar

        I use the Cimarron as the turning point. Cadillac was already on the way down, but to me the Cimarron was the Nadir of the brand. Since then we have had the wonderful Northstar, the ATS etc etc. If Cadillac were to build today a better car than the A3, A4, A8 it would still fare worse than the Audi. Buick which was associated being the vehicle you drove before the scooter, is doing a bang up job of turning a brand’s perception around. But as mentioned above, it is filling a void in the market place. Unlike Cadillac where it’s market is crowded with competition. I do see some possibilities for Cadillac, like the CUV market, but not Escalade like overblown prices.

      • 0 avatar
        Jimal

        You’ll notice that BMW really doesn’t build the car everyone was targeting with their “BMW fighters” anymore.

      • 0 avatar
        tedward

        No people do buy BMW’s (or that type of car). Witness every BMW, Merc and Audi sale. Also, every Lexus IS, Infinti G/Q whatever.

        I agree that Cadillac should have a comfy barge or two (and they do, XTS) but if that kind of product dominates their lineup they are going to be in for some serious ridicule from the rest of the premium market. Besides, they already outperform Lexus in the important “compact” segment you object to, with the ATS vs. the IS. The only segment that Lexus plays in without a Cadillac peer is the LS. There should be a caddie there, but extreme care needs be taken not to be outshone by their competitors as well as the growing RWD entry premium offerings, like the 300, Genesis and Impala.

        Cadillac’s problems are 1990’s GM, styling, recent price position, and hubris. The hubris point is key. Look to a comment above regarding how long Audi took to elevate their pricing and brand positioning to equal the best in their segment (which is BMW and Merc, not Lexus.)

  • avatar
    Stovebolt

    This De Nysschen is a tool, and the words of his marketing marionette continue to horrify. How about throwing in a set of Cadillac luggage? Cadillac earrings? A bar of Cadillac soap? I hope GM loses these losers before it’s too late.

    • 0 avatar
      thornmark

      Audi surpassed Mercedes in sales worldwide in 2011. De Nysschen was responsible for the US.

      So what did De Nysschen do that impeded Audi in US sales? And why did Audi US set an all-time sales record last month, well after De Nysschen left?

      Easy. De Nysschen didn’t matter. He had no magic formula. At Cadillac he will matter, but in a negative way as he wastes resources w/ looney branding schemes aimed at automotive airheads.

      • 0 avatar
        tedward

        Damn, reply eaten.

        Cliffnotes: Given all the recent “ink” on the man it might be nice to see a piece actually covering his contributions at Audi. I don’t like what he did at Infinite, and I’m not getting a good vibe from the messaging coming out of Cadillac. That said, there’s not really enough information to justify the rush to judgement we’re engaging in (myself included frankly.)

        To Derek. An article focusing on this topic would clearly draw a ton of comments and views. You’d probably need to anonymously source feedback from someone in a position to know how things went down at Audi during his tenure, but interest is high enough that I think obscuring a source would be justified.

    • 0 avatar

      agreed,

  • avatar
    Morea

    So not enough people are coveting them? ;-)

  • avatar
    tekdemon

    There’s something terribly wrong with the comment system-longer replies don’t seem to show up but new comments will post.

    This was supposed to be a reply to APaGttH but replies seem to go into a black hole:

    The $50K Genesis actually just proves how overpriced the CTS is, since the equivalent CTS is $65K (V6 Premium AWD).

    The thing about that $80K 4 cylinder 5 series is that:
    1)BMW is the #1 brand in this segment so they can charge to match demand.
    2)While the MSRP may be $80K nobody except a few fanatics actually ever pay that since most BMWs are “sold” as leases with heavy factory subsidies/incentives.

    When you look at lease rates, which is how most of these cars are sold, that same BMW 5 series with the inflated $80K MSRP is suddenly price competitive with a similarly equipped CTS-except you can tell all your neighbors that you drive an “$80K BMW” instead of a Cadillac CTS.

    Cadillac just does NOT have enough brand reputation to be able to demand high prices regardless of how few sales they have-all that’ll happen is that nobody will buy them, so there will be no word of mouth even if your product is good. Even worse, the residuals will become even worse which will penalize anybody who bought one, and make leases expensive compared to the competition.

    This kind of nonsense where Cadillac will set a high price no matter how few sales is a joke business plan for the car industry where huge fixed costs are a big deal-it’s a great way to destroy Cadillac entirely.

    If they really want to be where BMW is today they need to do what all up and coming brands do-offer a lot more value by loading up the cars but still charge a relatively high average transaction price and building them with better quality than the cars you’re trying to compete against. And then when you have the demand you can raise your prices. This ridiculous plan to try and do it backwards is going to destroy Cadillac. CTS sales already dropped in a brand new model year and this pathetic $2K price drop isn’t even close to what it’d actually take to move these.

    A similarly equipped CTS and BMW 528i lease for $449 and $489 respectively with $4349 and $4214 up front. I tried to compare 528xi rates with the equivalent AWD CTS but Cadillac doesn’t even publish a public special offer for that car so for all we know the BMW might be cheaper. The 528i in question has an MSRP of $52,700.00 while the CTS in question has an MSRP of $45,345.36 so while the BMW “costs over $7000 more” in the real world the lease is only $40 more and you pay $100 less up front to start with (obviously you can negotiate with both Cadillac and BMW dealers but I’m just going off the current public offer)

    • 0 avatar
      28-Cars-Later

      “Cadillac just does NOT have enough brand reputation to be able to demand high prices regardless of how few sales they have-all that’ll happen is that nobody will buy them, so there will be no word of mouth even if your product is good. Even worse, the residuals will become even worse which will penalize anybody who bought one, and make leases expensive compared to the competition”

      Spot on I have argued this for months.

    • 0 avatar
      DeadWeight

      Tekdemon wrote:

      “The $50K Genesis actually just proves how overpriced the CTS is, since the equivalent CTS is $65K (V6 Premium AWD).”

      Honestly, a base 2015 (new gen) Genesis Sedan is better than the new gen CTS in terms of interior space, fit/finish, powertrain, ride quality, and I’d argue is likely to be much more reliable AND durable, also.

      And then there are the niggling, idiotic CTS cheap outs such as the gauges, base wheels & paint quality.

      Yet the Genesis can be had for 35k (38k MSRP), while the CTS similarly equipped as a base Genesis is priced 12k-15k higher.

      Forget BMW.

      Cadillac can’t even compete with Hyundai.

      It’s really quite pathetic.

  • avatar
    xflowgolf

    If we want to look at the whole “truth about cars” though, I don’t think saying CTS sales were down means very much, since the market is still buying SUV’s and skipping passenger cars. BMW 5 series sales were down 7% and MB E-class were down 5%. Those brands are both up overall, but they’re doing it with crossover iron.

    Bring out the pitchforks.

    http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2015/01/usa-all-cars-sales-figures-2014-december-year-end.html

  • avatar
    nickoo

    Cadillac is missing out on what makes it Cadillac. Go back to crisper styling like previous generations of a and s and drop the xts, its a rolling abomination. The volt thingy should go too and everyone involved on pushing that project should be fired.

    Keep escalade, build roomier ats and CTS models, update the srx, come out with a small cross over, and come out with a true flagship sedan, build it on the escalade frame and make it a hybrid so it meets minimum mpg standards. The bof sedan can have short, long wheel base, and limo versions. It WILL sell, as there is no longer a town car to compete against but there is still a need for such vehicles.

  • avatar
    VenomV12

    I legitimately liked the CTS V6 Premium, that is an excellent car when I drove it and very good looking. The problem is the CTS price is too high compared to its competitors which have more prestige, the backseat and interior in general are woefully small and the American car dealership experience is awful, even Cadillac, and usually not pleasant at all. At the end of the day I just don’t think Ford or GM are very good companies or very well run companies and you don’t get that premium experience from them.

    • 0 avatar
      DeadWeight

      My uncle has a MY 2014 CTS. Many will presume it’s “just” my anti-Cadillac bias speaking, but unlike Kyree, who thinks of the ATS as a “proper luxury car,” I don’t even think of the CTS as a proper luxury car.

      The CTS is an interpretation of a vehicle trying to ape something between a BMW 4 (I use 4 because its in between a 3 series and 5 series) & Mercedes D Class (I use D because it’s in between C & E), but that does neither very successfully..

      No matter what the glowing reviews say, the interior still has a cheeziness to it, the ride is not that well sorted, and he’s already suffered 3 problems necessitating warranty work, including an oil leak.

      It also has a backseat that, while not as cramped as the ATS, is a 1/2 size too small, and the standard gauges are the same, loathsome ones in the ATS.

      And then, there’s the price issue. He purchased his at an employee discount (though he’s not an employee), but the MSRP is just plainly too high.

      So, it’s overpriced, doesn’t have the interior quality of the E Class, nor the refinement of either the BMW 3/5 series or MB E Class in 6 cylinder form, is too cramped, doesn’t have a premium ride quality (try it on Michigan roads), and has been unreliable as a new car purchase.

      He tried to defend it for a while but now concedes it was a mistake, and admits he liked his 2009 Raven Black DTS Luxury much more.

      • 0 avatar
        28-Cars-Later

        I would clarify to him the MY14 CTS is a slightly stretched ATS, and your details about a common interior and ride quality only further confirm what we already knew. Shame me missed out on the Sigma CTS as it would have probably been better, although I certainly was not very impressed with it personally.

        • 0 avatar
          DeadWeight

          When he saw the sticker on the new ’15 CTS he decided to buy a new ’14, and again, he got employee pricing.

          He pretty much stuck with Buicks before the CTS & his now very much missed Raven Black ’09 DTS.

          I wonder if he strays to a Chrysler 300 or other non-GM vehicle next.

      • 0 avatar
        tekdemon

        I have to say though that while it was probably a lousy deal when he bought it (even with the employee discount), now that GM is throwing literally $10,000 on the hood ($8000 off for buying a CTS, another $2000 off if you own any GM vehicle 1999 or newer) and dealers also throw in another few thousand off, it’s almost justifiable since the interior isn’t bad when you compare it to something like an Acura TLX that the discount would bring it down to competing with. Of course I suspect the TLX would have less issues on average.

        GM employees are probably the only people buying these though is my guess since between the current incentives and the employee pricing they’re getting insane discounts, not to mention the PEP cars where they’re basically half off for a year old car.

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