Carter To Musk: Hydrogen Just One Basket For Toyota's Eggs

"If substantial advances to battery technology are made, then they will probably come from a government research lab, university program or private company that specializes in battery technology, not from an automaker." True. Said new technologies are already being studied by exactly the groups you name and, wonder of wonders, one such group has demonstrated up to 4x the capacity while another has demonstrated more than double the charging rate--both technologies likely available to the open market within two to three years--just in time for the Tesla Gigafactory to manufacture them for the Model III and existing cars.

@Vulpine Tesla wants to sell everyone batteries. They would gladly sell Toyota as many as they need to mass produce their next EV.

I've often thought to myself that if the automobile were to be introduced today, many people would be fearful of the fact that it runs on explosions provided by a carcinogenic petroleum based substance that also has the side effect of creating air pollution... However not much of this knowledge was present when Henry Ford (and others) were rolling these out over 100 years ago. That said, I think yours is the only post that has approached the safety angle with hydrogen as a fuel. The idea of some quantity of hydrogen exploding somewhere is an awful thought. I would hope that local governments and private institutions that have parking garages ban these from underground parking immediately. Additionally, I'd hate to see what happens when a hydrogen FCV gets squashed by a tractor-trailer in a snowstorm (like we had a few weeks ago up here in W. Michigan). As neat as a FCV sounds, the technological realities that go along with it are understandably why no company has really put a lot of engineering muscle behind it. How you get the hydrogen from water or nat gas becomes prohibitively expensive. At least for now, PHEVs or hybrids make more sense.

@geozinger I'm still kind a freaked out by the fact that the tanks are 10,000 psi. Initially, I had the same sort of fears about lithium batteries in EVs and managed get over that. I'm not sure I can get past the 10,000 psi issue. Even pure atmospheric air at that pressure is scary to me. Sure, the tanks from Toyota can handle the pressure and Toyota's quality control is infallible (/sarcasm), but Toyota has released the patents. That means Chinese suppliers entering the picture - replacement tanks from the Lee Ki Tank Works, or more likely components for the pumping stations. Maybe your local neighborhood discount hydrogen station will decide to save some money and get their equipment from Shandong. How many of you are willing to pump 10,000 psi hydrogen into your car using this pump?: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/hydrogen-gas-booster-pumps/693653911.html What about the inspection and maintenance. Are state inspectors going to be trained? How often will these stations be inspected? What's this going to cost? What do they look for and what would a failure be like? How reliable are these Chinese pumps (see the link above) that will more than likely find their way into stations? Then, there's the issue everyone seems to be avoiding. What about individuals that would deliberately detonate one of these. Has anyone tested one to see how destructive an intentional detonation will be? 10,000 psi of hydrogen in a vehicle that could be parked anywhere without suspicion. Maybe it wouldn't be worse than a conventional car bomb - I really don't know enough about the subject. But, it's a question that the industry and government needs to answer.

@mcs While I agree about the potential misuse of the fuel tank in a car (likely a very easy weapon for the amateur terrorist), I would be far more concerned about the storage tanks used to refuel the cars. Why detonate a mere three or four cubic feet at that pressure when you could detonate three or four THOUSAND cubic feet? The effects would be far more widespread and affect people long after the initial explosion due not only to the damage done but also making it more difficult for innocent drivers to get a refill until that station is replaced. The potential for societal disruption is far higher. Battery packs, on the other hand, are far safer and can not affect anything beyond an extremely localized area.

Like you said- it's an escape artist. It tends not to build up in a particular area. Also, when it bruns it burns upward and quickly. Most of the passengers survived the hindenberg disaster. Gas just becomes a puddle burning underneath you. I would be concerned with high-pressure tank-rupture in an accident though.

@carve To be fair, the passengers on the Hindenburg were *already* underneath the fire to begin with... Point taken however. I really don't want to be injured in a fire and neither method sounds particularly palatable to me...

@geozinger The Mirai is going to be a hydrogen bomb

@carve Worse however is the fact that the Hindenberg was a gas bag; the hydrogen tanks that burned were soft balloons under low pressure when it burned, and burn it did--quickly. Now, try to imagine that same energy going up in a single blast from a high-pressure container--Like the space shuttle Challenger, where nobody survived.

@Vulpine By the way, for those who think I'm fear-mongering, think again. If I can imagine it, I'm absolutely certain other can as well. In fact, I'm almost certain I've read novels where something similar has occurred and we've all already seen what happens when a standard gasoline station catches fire. Hydrogen, especially when it finds oxygen, will be far more energetic.