By on December 15, 2014

2015-ford-f-150-in-detroit-rear-side-view

Keep those Benzes, BMWs and Audis in the garage, son: $50,000-plus trucks and SUVs are where it’s at for the ballers and players these days.

TrueCar says trucks and SUVs account for six of the top 10 best-selling vehicles in the United States market, specifically the segment where transaction prices of $50,000-plus are the norm.

The biggest of them all? The Ford F-150, whose projected 2014 volume of 189,776 “will likely surpass total U.S. volume of luxury car benchmarks including BMW’s combined 3, 5 and 7 Series sales or total deliveries for the Audi brand this year.” The Blue Oval will see revenue of $10.8 billion from those high transactions, making up a third of an estimated $33.2 billion for the overall F-Series portfolio.

The demand for looking California and feeling Minnesota is helped in part by a recovering U.S. economy, improved vehicle quality, and a growing supply of cheap gasoline, which is helping the $50,000-plus transaction segment, as well: approximately 8.1 percent of total 2014 sales will transact at that level, up from 6.6 percent in 2013.

Finishing out the podium per TrueCar is Fiat Chrysler Automobiles’ Ram truck lineup, with sales of 76,266 at the $50,000 transaction level, Mercedes taking third with its E-Class at 67,006.

TrueCar 2014 50K USD Transaction Table

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250 Comments on “Trucks, SUVs Best Premium Sedans In Over $50K US Segment...”


  • avatar
    petezeiss

    So pretty round wheel wells having Ford!

  • avatar
    bball40dtw

    “looking California and feeling Minnesota”

    So you are saying trucks “Outshined” premium sedans?

    • 0 avatar

      Indeed; the U.S. has loudly declared its love for the truck over the rusty Teutonic cages. Yes.

    • 0 avatar
      anti121hero

      I love how you caught the soundgarden quote as well. Unfortunately I look new york and feel new york all the time. Upstate, not city.

      • 0 avatar
        bball40dtw

        I wonder if I look Detroit. Hmmmmm. I don’t look very stabby or shooty, and I don’t drive a Dodge Magnum with 22s, so probably not.

        • 0 avatar
          raresleeper

          Don’t you need an older, well-worn W-Body (with some 20’s on it) to “look Detroit”?

          Oh yea, and you must make an appearance at that American Pawn Shop (or whatever that place is) and get the employees in an uproar.

          There you go. Now you can look Detroit. Just follow that advice.

          • 0 avatar
            bball40dtw

            I’ve been to American Jewelry and Loan. Out of town guests have asked to go there, and it’s less than four miles from my house. I lived and worked in Detroit for long enough that anything that happens there doesn’t faze me. People say it gives Detroit a bad name, but I’ve seen worse fights in banks on the 1st and 3rd compared to anything that show broadcasts.

          • 0 avatar
            raresleeper

            I, Sir, have never been to Detroit, but would love to see the ruins of early American automotive manufacturing before it all gets razed.

            Just the abundance of rotting Art Deco skyscrapers would make me the equivalent of a kid in the candy store.

          • 0 avatar
            bball40dtw

            The skyscrapers, especially the Art Deco ones (Fisher, Guardian, Penobscot), have fared better than much of the city.

            The David Stott Building has not been so lucky. It’s now owned by the Chinese, but they are going to take a bath on the property. They get consulting firms to issue press releases when they don’t fix stuff. That would be the building to explore.

            If you ever need a Detroit architecture tour, let me know.

        • 0 avatar
          Lie2me

          ” I don’t look very stabby or shooty”

          10 internet points for “Detroit cool” description

          • 0 avatar
            raresleeper

            I will make my way up there one day, for sure. Hopefully sooner than later.

            Anytime I tell someone about the trip I’d like to take there, I usually just get a crazy look.

  • avatar
    Drzhivago138

    Some trucks practically are premium sedans. And some are appliances. And some are both. And there’s nothing wrong with any of that.

    As a Minnesotan, I’ve never heard the term “looking California and feeling Minnesota.” Interesting. FWIW, I’d rather look and feel MN. Or SD. Maaaaybe IA or NE.

  • avatar
    Fred

    Some of my fellow Texans are starting to get scared of the prices of these fancy trucks. Not enough to put them in sedans or smaller trucks, but unless they have oil rights those King Ranch specials are getting to be too much, for the normal folk.

    • 0 avatar
      highdesertcat

      Fred, none of the dealers who sell trucks (of all brands) in my area have noticed a reduction in sales.

      People who choose to buy those trucks think nothing of financing them for the max allowed by the lenders. And the ones who buy them outright aren’t fazed either since they often use their 3-5 yo truck as a trade in.

      The market will pay what the market will bear. People want new trucks and will pay whatever they cost to buy them.

  • avatar
    vent-L-8

    Trucks ans SUVs have simply taken the places of the luxury sedans and family wagons of the 70s. My personal theory is that in the absence of CAFE regulations manufactures would have continued to produce and refine the large sedans we loved. In their void we have trucks and SUVs which get about the same milage as the land beasts of yesteryear. A perfect example of the law of unintended consequences,

    • 0 avatar
      PrincipalDan

      Yup this. The Impala, Galaxie, Newport/Fury of the modern world. Crew cab with the itty bitty bed and hinged fiberglass bed cover – bang, some of the greatest sedans Detroit ever made, they just ride a little higher.

    • 0 avatar
      eggsalad

      Also because taxes, at least in the case of company-owned vehicles.

      If a company leases or buys a luxury *car* only a certain percentage of it is deductible.

      If that company leases or buys a luxury *truck*, well, that’s a commercial vehicle and is 100% deductible.

      It’s significantly cheaper for the bigwigs to drive a King Ranch F-150 than a Lincoln sedan.

      • 0 avatar
        highdesertcat

        “Also because taxes, at least in the case of company-owned vehicles.”

        That’s true and any smart business person will utilize that option to the fullest.

        That’s how my wife gets to drive a 2015 Sequoia Platinum. Her family’s business bought it for her.

    • 0 avatar
      Lorenzo

      If you look at the GM trucks at least, and note the wheelbase and track, they’re using the same perimeter frame as the ’65-’77 full size sedans! I still think, though, that trucks and large SUVs are popular because of the high seating position, more vertical windshield, and larger, more vertical windows (especially the back window) for greater visibility. The four door coupe design of large cars, and now even mid-size cars is driving people into trucks, and designers may yet kill off large and mid-sized SUVs, since they’re starting to do to SUVs what they did to sedans.

      • 0 avatar
        petezeiss

        You’ve completely captured my lifetime attraction to trucks whether or not I’ve had things to actually haul. But I’m sure you’ve also noticed that with each styling update of the past 10 years the A-pillar is a little nearer to horizontal and the greenhouse correspondingly smaller relative to the growing bulk beneath the beltline.

        Like a big, strong football lineman can be felled by the AIDS virus as easily as a slender purse puppy TM, pickups are not immune to the government-vectored plague that has turned sedans into sensory deprivation chambers.

    • 0 avatar
      Lou_BC

      @vent-L-8 – correct you are. Import tariffs also encouraged the conversion of pickups to large sedan status.

  • avatar
    7402

    How many F150s are actually sold for over $50k? A quick glance at the Ford web site shows that MSRP for the 2015 F150 ranges from $25,420 to $50,960. While I can believe that dealers find a way to spec them above that high figure, and that people will buy them, and despite the chart showing that over 25% of them did come in at over $50k, I’m incredulous. The high end truck is basically a tarted up $25k truck. Can people not see this?

    • 0 avatar
      Drzhivago138

      According to the chart, 33.5%, up from 25.3% last year. Granted, it is hard to see.

      But that brings up another thing: the chart says “Ford F-Series,” “Ram Pickup,” etc.–not just the half-ton version, apparently. It’s not hard at all to option out an HD pickup to over $50K when it starts at over $30K.

    • 0 avatar
      dal20402

      You’re overlooking options. Pretty much none of these trucks come with no options. If I specify that $50,960 Platinum with options nearly all of them will have (6′ bed, 3.5TT, 4×4, basic tow package) I’m at $57,245. And there are plenty more options available — it’s easy to get one of these up to the mid-60s if you really want your truck fully loaded.

      • 0 avatar
        krhodes1

        And of course it is much the same on the luxury car side. My $32K 228i is either going to cost $39K or $46K (MSRP), depending on how flush I feel when I actually order the thing. And that is the CHEAPEST BMW car we get in the US.

    • 0 avatar
      Superdessucke

      I’m too incredulous but this isn’t anything new. Even going back to 1950s and early 1960s, a Cadillac Deville was essentially a tarted up Chevy Biscayne, yet sold for 10s of thousands more in adjusted dollars right? So the American consumer has always been somewhat prone to spending for form over substance.

      I’m more incredulous that the government hasn’t come down on gas guzzling trucks like it has gas guzzling cars.

      • 0 avatar
        DenverMike

        It’s not as if the top F-series are the 1st luxury cars to sell for more than 2X that of the base model they’re based on.

        Like the 3-series. But for luxo pickup truck money, you’re getting 2X the doors/seating and 2X the powered wheels, vs the base models, NOT just leather/gadgetry/Nav/moonroof – as in luxury cars.

        This is why fullsize pickup OEMs have to sell a staggering amount of trucks to compete with luxury German models (5-series, S-class, etc), just to net similar pre tax profits per individual line/model.

      • 0 avatar
        Lorenzo

        The Cadillacs of the ’50s were larger than the full sized Chevy, Olds and Pontiac, and so were the Buicks. They were wider and had longer wheelbases.

        The full size Buicks were the first to match the larger full size Chevys in the late ’60s, but Cadillac still had a separate platform for its models until the late ’70s downsizing.

        By 1980 the exclusivity of all GM nameplates was gone, with the end of divisions as separate companies. Even the exclusive engines were shared, with one Cadillac owner outraged that his 350 was a Chevrolet engine. GM added a qualifier that their nameplates used engines from “various GM divisions”.

    • 0 avatar
      dwford

      F Series is a little vague. Does it include the F250,350,450? Those heavier trucks, especially with the diesel, are easily over $50k

    • 0 avatar
      anti121hero

      I haven’t seen a 2wd base f150 since at least 2007. Unless it’s a commercial fleet vehicle.

      • 0 avatar
        bumpy ii

        I see one every so often; there’s usually some old guy who wants the cheapest full-size truck on the lot. Vastly outnumbered by the crew-cab 4×4 country cadillacs, though.

      • 0 avatar
        nrd515

        I’ve seen a few, there’s a very old guy who drives a 2012 F150 who I know vaguely, he’s a friend’s dad’s cousin. He’s famously cheap, and the F150 is his “last vehicle”, as his last two have been. His past ones, going back to the early 60’s, were “sparsely optioned” to put it mildly. I remember seeing his ’71 Satellite, with an AM radio, and nothing else. No A/C, but I think it had a heater. One of his earlier cars had an add on heater in it, and he said that was “For my wife, I don’t need heat in a car!”. When I told my dad what he said, my dad said, “He belongs in the nuthouse!”. It’s not like Chicago winters here in Toledo, but no heater? Wow, that is just plain nuts.

    • 0 avatar
      hubcap

      “The high end truck is basically a tarted up $25k truck. Can people not see this?”

      You say this as if it’s a special case with Ford and the F-150 but doesn’t occur anywhere else.

      Think about what platform the following vehicles are based on:

      1. BMW M3

      2. Porsche Cayenne

      3. E63 AMG/ C63 AMG

      4. Audi RS3

      There’s plenty more but I’m sure you get the picture. As something in the same vein, look at the previous Acura TSX. Sold as the Accord in Europe, but sold in North America as a premium.

    • 0 avatar
      Lou_BC

      @7402 – IIRC 40%

    • 0 avatar
      Vulpine

      You’re forgetting the Raptor that retails for $65K and more.

  • avatar
    dal20402

    The F-150 is a monument to American bad taste. I’m not talking about the idea of a pickup truck rather than a sedan. I’m talking about the details of the truck’s styling.

    Every F-150 comes with nearly foot-long badges that are held in by spikes (so a lot of work to remove cleanly). 4×4 variants come with giant colorful “4×4” or “FX4” stickers on the bed. Tailgates on the higher trim levels have gaudy aluminum applique, with the trim level stamped in the Platinum’s case. The grille is about 18 feet tall and is entirely chrome on most trim levels. The door handles look like something that should have been on an Excalibur. The interior brings out every masculine cliche in the book and turns into a horrific mess of lines, angles, and clashing textures. The overall effect is one of trying way too hard.

    I’d love to see a pickup that looked as clean, unobtrusive, and functional as an Audi sedan.

    • 0 avatar
      mnm4ever

      Maybe it’s just me but I don’t find them to be so tacky:

      http://tinyurl.com/ohj3a9k

      http://tinyurl.com/oo6uuxk

      You don’t HAVE to get the chrome package or the FX4 stickers (which are not even that big anymore). Even the interiors on the lower trim levels are fairly muted and tasteful.

      • 0 avatar
        dal20402

        The monochrome versions (FX2/FX4 on the ’14, “Sport Appearance” on the ’15) are the best of the bunch, but they’re rare, and they still have the ugly badges, ugly tailgates, ugly door handles, and ugly grilles.

        And you can’t delete the 4×4 or FX4 sticker — if you don’t want it, you have to take it off yourself. Personally, I can’t ever imagine a situation when I would want sticker graphics of any nature on my car.

        Edit: Here’s my idea of a clean, pretty truck:

        http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5056/5534748675_e653f6837d_b.jpg

        The GMT400 is functionally old but, in my mind, is still the nicest pickup design ever.

        • 0 avatar
          mnm4ever

          Actually I agree with you, the GMT400 is one of my favorite styles of trucks, if I didn’t really need a rear seat of some kind I would have an SS454 for my truck needs.

          But that picture you posted isn’t a stock truck. The stock trucks back in 1990 had chrome rub strips and chrome grills and bumpers and door handles and window trim. The interiors were pretty spartan (which I like) but also pretty crappy (which I do not like). They did make “work truck” trim levels that didn’t have any of the chrome, but guess what? They still do. And back in 1990 if you bought a 4×4 or Z71 the stickers were just as big as now, actually way bigger since the 2014 Chevy trucks have tiny little Z71 stickers that look more like badges.

          And I am willing to bet that if you buy a 4×4 or FX4 and don’t want the sticker, any dealer in this country will remove it for you before delivery.

          • 0 avatar
            dal20402

            I know that one’s not stock, but I like the direction the modifications took it. Lower trim levels did have black door handles, though.

            No argument on the GMT400 interiors. They were garbage. I’m not sure anyone’s made a pickup yet with an interior I really like — they went from too-cheap straight to overstyled without a stop in between.

        • 0 avatar
          Vulpine

          That’s probably the nicest-looking pickup truck I’ve seen in a long, long time.

      • 0 avatar
        DenverMike

        I’d take a mid trim, with all the options allowed, vs a Platinum base.

        • 0 avatar
          Drzhivago138

          And that’s the highest percentage I see right now. XLT with Chrome Package, SuperCrew/5.5′ box. And it’s BORING. Next year promises to be more interesting for “trim geeks” such as myself, since both the SuperCab/8′ box config is now available on the Lariat config, with or without HD Payload Package. Said package is now sadly without the oddball 7-lug rims, but it at least has unique HD 6-lugs.

          • 0 avatar
            DenverMike

            A ‘chrome delete’, I’d gladly pay more for. Too much chrome is forced otherwise. I jumped on the STX for it had the mono-chrome of the luxo FX4, but still offered much XLT upgrades. Just right.

          • 0 avatar
            mnm4ever

            The STX is a great package. With the right options it looks nearly identical to my friend’s FX2 but for $10k less. No leather/suede seats but I can live with that for the savings.

          • 0 avatar
            Drzhivago138

            The ’15s have greatly simplified the offerings. XL, XLT, and Lariat are all available with either “sport” (similar to FX2/4 and STX; black grille and monochrome bumper) and “chrome” appearance packages. Only 5 trim levels instead of 10.

        • 0 avatar
          dal20402

          Agreed 100 percent. I think the XLT Sport Appearance is the best-looking of the bunch but I’d probably take a Lariat Sport Appearance for the extra goodies. Despite my whining they are so much more tasteful than Platinum or King Ranch (or even the non-Sport Lariat).

    • 0 avatar
      Drzhivago138

      “I don’t like X because it doesn’t appeal to my sense of taste. My sense of taste is the only one that matters.”

    • 0 avatar
      mnm4ever

      You got me thinking about the styling here and then I remembered the Ram black edition:

      http://tinyurl.com/k7uggjq

      That model is pretty tasteful in the same vein as the old Chevy you posted. IIRC they remove most if not all of the badges too, its all blacked out, and the Express interior is pretty devoid of fluff without giving up much comfort. Ironic since the Dodge used to be the most outrageously styled truck.

      But I think I get your point, it is no Audi. But then again I think Audi sedans are boring and dull, not so much tasteful as bland.

      • 0 avatar
        CoreyDL

        All Chrysler vehicles become a Black Edition eventually. Just takes time.

        • 0 avatar
          mnm4ever

          haha yes they do, but I like that they offer it as an option. And they do it right, its typically a very low cost “upgrade” on one of the lower trim levels, therefore affordable to more people. If I have to drive a minivan or a 200, I’d rather it was the black edition than some cheesy chromed out faux-luxury version.

          • 0 avatar
            bball40dtw

            The Flex Limited’s “Appearance Package” comes to mind as a good example of that. For $495, you get 20 inch black wheels, black mirror caps, two tone paint with a black roof, different leather, and black/aluminium trim replacing wood on teh inside.

      • 0 avatar
        dal20402

        Yep, that Ram really isn’t bad, particularly if debadged.

    • 0 avatar
      Hummer

      Well if we’re going for opinions, here’s mine.

      I believe any luxury car buy is a poor decision. Luxury cars offer very little in modern times to differentiate themselves from their cheaper alternatives. More so, why is an Audi, BMW, Merecedes considered luxury? High cost of ownership? Expensive entrance price, being from a far away unknown land called Europe?

      Unless your buying a hand made Rolls Royce, most luxury buys seem like a exercise in badge purchasing. Why does anyone want a mass produced luxury car that can’t offer something superior to the rest?

      Purchasing a fullsize pickup is an easy decision, for the same price as a cramped 3 series, and let’s be honest, it’s torture for us over 6 ft tall. But for the same price I get a V8 engine, a fullsize vehicle with room in every direction, possibly 4WD, a comfortable ride, because somehow having a harsh sporty ride is a must for a 2 liter so called luxury car; a towing capacity, a vehicle designed to run under heavy tolerances without downtime etc.

      Want a big reason why 3/4 has became more appealing to me? Durability, the idea is, I can purchase something made to handle above my needs and this will create little stress on components designed for more severe work. Therefore every 1/2 used as a modern sedan has a build design that exceeds normal use, no down side. Many truck owners have no faith in modern designed cars, their built to withstand forces created in a laboratory.

      For what my opinions worth anyhow.
      I could continue this for an hour, but I feel it would be pointless without a specific focus.

  • avatar
    petezeiss

    “The F-150 is a monument to American bad taste.”

    So is McDonalds, and just as loved.

    • 0 avatar
      Lie2me

      Yeah, I’ll have to tell the guys who maintain my lawn, plow my driveway and repair my roof that the “The F-150 is a monument to American bad taste.” I’m sure they’d love me for it

      That has got to be one of the dumbest things I’ve read today

      • 0 avatar
        petezeiss

        “That has got to be one of the dumbest things I’ve read today”

        The day is young and I’ll take that challenge :-)

      • 0 avatar
        dal20402

        The guy maintaining your lawn is probably driving a ten-year-old truck that earned its scars honestly.

        Most of the people making the decisions to buy these horribly ugly trucks new from the factory are couch cowboys.

        • 0 avatar
          raresleeper

          Idk, Dal.

          The F-150 is America’s sweet heart.

          Prepare to feel the wrath of at least 3 other commenters here today. I’d place a wager on that.

        • 0 avatar
          Drzhivago138

          It makes me feel old to find that a ten-year-old truck is a 2004 model. As in, I can remember clearly–not just vaguely, like the earlier instance–a time when said truck did not even exist.

        • 0 avatar
          Lie2me

          “Most of the people making the decisions to buy these horribly ugly trucks new from the factory are couch cowboys.”

          No, they’re hard working people who need a good truck. The bling is available for those who might want to take the family out to dinner on occasion and don’t think it’s prudent to buy an additional sedan to do so. They sound like smart people to me

          • 0 avatar
            dal20402

            How many buyers of F-150 Platinums ever carry more than 100 pounds in the bed or ever tow a trailer larger than a U-Haul?

            The buyers using half-ton trucks as trucks are mostly buying used trucks or new trucks configured with less delicate interiors. The thesis of this post is correct: the $50k+ half-ton truck is being used as a big family sedan.

            The people buying $60k trucks to use as trucks are buying HD trucks.

          • 0 avatar
            krhodes1

            Nearly all of the workmen who have come to my house in the past couple years have had either Transit Connects (mostly), or actual vans. The roofers and siders had a Sprinter with a BIG trailer behind it. But then we Mainers are a more practical than average sort. For most work purposes in a climate that has actual weather, pickup trucks suck. Putting a cap on one makes it suck even more, compared to a van.

        • 0 avatar
          MK

          Are you always this pretentious or just on Mondays?

          It’s a vehicle, not some guy wearing a Purple Heart at the mall. I don’t even know what “earned its scars honestly” is supposed to mean since vehicles don’t come from the factory with fake dents and scratches (those stick-on bullet holes and half-baseball through the glass don’t count).

          We get it, you don’t like trucks. Not that youd care but Lie2me has it right. Trucks ARE the new American family sedan and have been so for the last 10 years (longer in flyover country where value is important). I know you won’t like this but for the majority of Americans theyre a much better value proposition than an A4 or 2/3 series. Would I own an f150 in Boston? Heck no, but most of America isn’t parking constrained or heavily urbanized and they make a lot more sense as a multiuse vehicle.

          • 0 avatar
            dal20402

            I like trucks fine. They’re useful.

            I *really* don’t like the way trucks are currently styled (which is all my initial comment was about) and I also think they get a free pass for their weaknesses in a way cars never do.

        • 0 avatar
          DenverMike

          @Dal – To small businesses, farms, ranches, etc, or the backbone of the US economy, scrambling at the end of the year for tax write-offs, the luxury pickup flies under the radar of the IRS, as a plain-Jane work vehicle. Try that with a brand new S-class for your produce farm, every 3rd year.

          • 0 avatar
            dal20402

            That’s pretty much a win-win for everyone… except for all the rest of the taxpayers. $60,000 vehicle, $40,000 of the cost actually related to work, $20,000 deduction that really shouldn’t be allowed under a fair reading of the tax laws, probably $7000 or $8000 in unpaid tax depending on the tax rate.

            Unfortunately, there is just no way for the IRS to police business expense deductions with any accuracy, so you’re exactly right. A $60,000 luxury truck can fly under the radar.

            For most of the businesses you’re talking about though, that truck would be a Super Duty, not a F-150.

          • 0 avatar
            Lie2me

            Also, please note that the “couch-cowboy styling” you so easily dismiss is a crash-tested safer and more aerodynamically efficient design then any of it’s predecessors and not just the dick-extender you imply

          • 0 avatar
            MK

            Styling is certainly subjective but when I read something like “…overdone interiors that reek of masculine gender insecurity..” when the subject matter is something mundane like seat cushions, radio buttons, center consoles, dash material and door handles……well, that says a heckuva lot more about the author than it does about the subject.

            I personally don’t care how people who spend $50k+ for their vehicle treat it or why they buy it. Not my money, not my decision.

            I will say that I feel the same way about most “luxury” and “entry level lux” vehicles (Mercedes, Cadillac, Lincoln, Audi, BMW) I just don’t think they’re worth the premium charged for them. And since these are all mass-produced, mass-marketed and will end up in the same junkyards…meh, why bother.

          • 0 avatar
            Toad

            “For most of the businesses you’re talking about though, that truck would be a Super Duty, not a F-150.”

            You have no idea what you are talking about.

            Many contractors/farmers/etc don’t want the Super Duty because the ride is more harsh, the cost is higher, and/or the interior not as plush. The capacity and capability of the F150 suits them just fine.

            Although if you are sure these guys are wrong you can stop by a worksite and tell them how stupid they are. I’m sure they will appreciate it.

          • 0 avatar
            Lie2me

            Oh, and don’t forget to mention their “masculine insecurities” they might just prove you wrong in ways you never dreamt of

        • 0 avatar
          Lou_BC

          @dal20402 – 50% are purchased for business use.

          When it comes to truck purchases I see contractors of all stripes buying mostly full bling trucks. Fleet trucks or lower echelon guys get the plain jane stuff.

          I do see a large number of 1/2 ton trucks that look like they have never seen a load or a gravel road.

          • 0 avatar
            dal20402

            Is that 50% of half-tons, or 50% of all pickups? I’m sure a large majority of HD pickups are purchased for business use.

            I’d be interested to know how many trucks of the following trim levels are purchased for business use *in a business that requires basic truck capabilities*:

            F-150 Platinum or King Ranch
            Sierra Denali 1500
            Silverado 1500 High Country
            Ram 1500 Laramie Longhorn or Laramie Limited

            I bet the answer would be: relatively few.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            @dal20402 – pickup trucks dot com had a break down of fleet sales a few years ago. I tried to post the link but the spam bot ate it.

            Fleet sales do not tell the whole picture. A mom and pop operation buying a pickup for their business would not count as a fleet sale.

          • 0 avatar
            Scoutdude

            A mom and pop operation would certainly qualify as a fleet sale IF the chose to use a dealer with a dedicated fleet dept and they knew enough to go to the fleet dept. It doesn’t even have to be a vehicle that will actually be used in the business it could be the vehicle for mom to take the kids to soccer or dance. You just have to show your business license. Granted they wouldn’t get as big of a discount if they only have one or two vehicles in their fleet. I know at Ford in the past if you have 5 vehicles in the fleet you get a little better price than if your fleet is 1-4 vehicles. At 10 you qualify for another step in the discount. Note you do not have to be buying 5 vehicles just have 5 or more vehicles in the fleet.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            @Scoutdude – fleet pricing tends to be tied to a minimum purchase. My dad had a small trucking business and never qualified for a pickup fleet purchase.If you qualify you get a “fleet number” assigned. IIRC 10 vehicles is the minimum.

          • 0 avatar
            Scoutdude

            No Lou, Ford regularly sends me as a business owner information on their B2B program, that directs me to contact the fleet dept at my local dealer. All that is required to be eligible for the discount is to show a business license. No it is not the biggest discount but it would be registered as a fleet sale.

            Now to get the bigger discounts you just have to either have a fleet of 15 vehicles or have purchased or are purchasing 5 or more vehicles in the last calender year. What qualifies as a vehicle is pretty loosely defined so it includes fork lifts, tractors, RVs, Backhoes, Bobcats.

            http://www.fleet.ford.com/get-started/eligibility-documentation/

            Also buying services such as those at Costco direct you to the fleet dept at many dealers and those sales will be recorded as fleet sales even though the majority of them are for personal use.

  • avatar
    CoreyDL

    I read things like this, and think to myself, “Yes, you are a single American homeowner, you need a large SUV.”

    Then I try and go about justifying having something like a Land Cruiser as my only vehicle. I KNOW it would make me feel good driving it.

    • 0 avatar
      raresleeper

      It’s lifted Land Cruiser for the win, Corey.

      It needs its safari basket and a snorkel, too. Those are necessities, not up for discussion.

      And regarding owning a SUV, a very intelligent person told me that if you own a home, should therefore own a truck.

      I didn’t hear the one about homeowners owning a SUV, though. Especially if said homeowner is single.

      If there’s one or more little Coreys running around, I can see that logic a little more clearly.

      • 0 avatar
        CoreyDL

        If I lift it, it won’t fit in the parking garage at work! The snorkel and basket might clash with the two-tone pearlcoat.

        • 0 avatar
          raresleeper

          Hell, I’d take the LC without the safari basket and even without the snorkel.

          But it just looks so right with a lift.

          The only car you would ever need though. This is true.

          Lol… why in the hell did I just run a Google image search of “lifted MPV”??

      • 0 avatar
        mkirk

        I had a Land Cruiser and a home. The Land Cruisers repair bills damn near warranted a second mortgage on said home. Having said that, it was lifted, rhino lined on the bottom and able to fit a 12000 pound winch behind the stock bumper. I miss it.

    • 0 avatar
      krhodes1

      I don’t really have a need for a Range Rover. But it is useful to have around. And it is actually nice to drive for a garden shed on wheels. And I can maintain it for about 15 years for the difference in price between it and a similar Land Cruiser.

      Would never dream of having one as my only car though.

      • 0 avatar
        raresleeper

        Hmmm… interesting you mentioned the Rover.

        Methinks we pick on it far too often as a product of opulence, rather than recognizing it for the off-road machine it really is.

        • 0 avatar
          krhodes1

          The last couple generations of Range Rovers are bling busses, though they still have decent off-road capability. Mine is an ’01, which means it has a ladder frame like the Forth Bridge, and live axles at both ends. It’s a real truck with some wood and leather inside, not an overpowered party barge for plutocrats.

          And while air suspension may need love and attention, it is NICE to have a deployable on demand lift kit. So much nice on the highway once it drops a couple inches too.

  • avatar
    petezeiss

    Let’s go with that Pickups = New Sedans thing; move the rear axle 8-10″ forward, cut-out the rear doors for the wheel wells like a sedan, put a formal D-pillar on it and a trunk to replace the useless-anyway vestigial bed.

    • 0 avatar
      Lie2me

      Let’s just add a 2nd floor and a sunroom while we’re at it, ok?

    • 0 avatar
      Lou_BC

      @petezeiss – sounds like you are describing the Chevy Avalanche.

      People want the image of driving a rugged vehicle. That image sells a sh!t load of Jeeps and various other so called off-road SUV’s.

      My 20ft long SuperCrew has seen more back country than all of the Jeep Wrangler Unlimited on my street.

      • 0 avatar
        Lie2me

        How’s that 20 footer at rock crawling down a narrow winding mountain pass?

        • 0 avatar
          mkirk

          Yep. Its called breakover angle and why my Frontier is 2WD. I’ve wrestled some long vehicles down trails, but why? I could get a Sportster where my dirt bike went too but I can’t imagine it would be any fun.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            mkirk, lie2me – the point I was trying to make is that most people who own SUV’s and even Wrangler Rubicon models do not take them very far off road.

            I’ve been more places with my current truck than most who drive those kinds of SUV’s.

            Guys want to call truck owners posers but that name applies to almost anyone who owns a vehicle that does not get used for its intended purpose.

            (Spam bot ate my previous replies – I bet that tomorrow they will all show up)

  • avatar
    sportyaccordy

    I live in a richish southern town. It’s the old guard’s nightmare. A lot of money and little to no class/taste. Lot of silicone and boat parties with the occasional booty clapping attention whore. I am smack dab in the middle of their market. As cheesy as this sounds, these folks cant appreciate the nuance of a Teutonic sedan. They need a big truck that would make Paw Paw proud, Gawd rest his soul. And they will dictate the market, at least till the economy falls out again.

    • 0 avatar
      highdesertcat

      The people with money will always dictate the markets, even during downturns. We really only have two strata of people in America: the haves, and the have-nots.

      Buyers are what shakes out any market, be that automotive or whatever. Trucks sell. Huge SUVs sell. Camry sedans sell. The rest is also rans.

      I believe that we should have a choice because I believe in “The More, The Merrier”. But sometimes the people who finance the automakers can no longer support slow sellers in the US.

    • 0 avatar
      raresleeper

      Well two sportyaccordy, you mentioned lots of boat parties.

      Depending on what kind of boats we’re talking here (mega-yachts or the occasional 30′ cruiser), trucks probably are used- rather, preferred- for their towing capabilities (with of course, BOF domestics).

      Other than that, sounds like pulling up in a Japanese vehicle makes you (by default) one of them “weird liberal fellas”, geographically speaking.

      Dare I say gents, I DO love me some Southern women :)

      • 0 avatar
        highdesertcat

        Ahhhhh, yes! Those Southern Belles. The South will rise again!

        • 0 avatar
          Lou_BC

          The South will rise again!

          Isn’t that a Viagra commercial?

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            +1

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            Lou_BC, many of those Southern Belles will make a man rise to new heights without Viagra.

            Must be the grits and collard greens they feed’m.

            I have very fond memories of Keesler AFB in Biloxi, Mississippi, Gulfport and New Orleans when I was a young man and unsupervised, away from my family for the first time in my life.

            Gawd Almighty! All that sugar! So little time!

          • 0 avatar
            mnm4ever

            I was stationed at Keesler too, and yes, the girls in the area were very fun!

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            mnm4ever, did you ever have a chance to go to the Broadwater Hotel soiree?

            I swear, they drafted all the single white girls from all around the area, or maybe those girls were just looking for a husband. And that delicious Southern drawl!

            I went to Tech School at Keesler and then went on to Sheppard AFB for more Tech School after that, and even more willing Texas girls in the college town.

            Thinking back about that time in 1965 it was a miracle I didn’t hurt myself or caught some social disease.

          • 0 avatar
            mnm4ever

            I’m a bit younger than you… I was there in the late 90s. Somehow I didn’t catch anything, except a divorce. Looking back I can say it was worth it!

    • 0 avatar
      Toad

      Many people buy their vehicle by the pound: to many buyers at a given price point more vehicle = more value. That has been very common for long time. In that regard trucks give buyers a lot of value for their dollar since the vehicle has size, power, can tow, haul stuff and people, are known to be reliable, and have a certain amount of respectability in most of the country. That checks off a lot of boxes for a lot of buyers.

      Interestingly, in a lot of the country you will be seen as pretentious in a $60k import sedan but your customers/employees/coworkers will not bat an eye if you roll up in a $60k F150 Platinum.

      I just downsized vehicles and in the back of my mind it was hard to shake the notion that I could get “more” vehicle for the money if I bought another truck. In my case I don’t currently need a truck and wanted to avoid the fuel expense and vehicle size…but I completely understand why others would make different choices.

      • 0 avatar
        highdesertcat

        ” in a lot of the country you will be seen as pretentious in a $60k import sedan but your customers/employees/coworkers will not bat an eye if you roll up in a $60k F150 Platinum.”

        That goes back to the days of the American Pioneers and the Conestoga Wagon. Perceived value and utility, hooked behind a lot of horses @sses.

        In the Rural areas of America, trucks are a common sight. In West Palm Beach where my sister lives you can’t even park a pickup truck on the street in front of your house, or in your driveway, unless you are a workman or contractor performing a job.

        No such restrictions for any SUV or CUV. It all boils down to what you want to drive and I cannot imagine my life without a pickup truck in my household. It is just about the only thing I drive to get around with.

        More and more people appear to be choosing a truck as their mainstay transport.

      • 0 avatar
        S2k Chris

        My company purchased another small company in Oklahoma, minting several 8-figure millionaires in the process. I eagerly anticipated showing up to the new office about a week after the deal closed, thinking I’d see a parking lot full of cool iron.

        The lot looked, literally, like a Ford dealership, with two rows of brand new shiny F-150s out front. The show-offy guy bought a Raptor. (Granted, there was a 981 Boxster S and a C6 ZR1 in the lot too).

        • 0 avatar
          raresleeper

          F-150’s?

          Pfffft. No surprise there.

          Why??

          “Ooooooooo-klahoma where the wind comes sweepin’ down the plain….”

          I’d love to give top management’s cars a gander at the Wal-Mart Corporate Office down in sunny Bentonville, Arkansas. Bet you’d find lots of “interesting” iron there, too. (/sarc)

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            raresleeper, use Google Maps or Bing Maps to give you a God’s Eye view of the parking lot. Then zoom until you can zoom no more.

          • 0 avatar
            raresleeper

            The Land of the Domestics, no?

            With the exception of Toyota.

            Even the most conservative of rural families drink the Toyota Kool-Aid, especially if its Avalon or Highlander flavored.

        • 0 avatar
          Lie2me

          You do know what the #1 vehicle driven by millionaires in the US is don’t you? Well, obviously you do now it’s the F-150

          Sam Walton drove a 10 year old F-150 until his dying day, you better believe no one at Walmart HQ drove anything better

        • 0 avatar
          highdesertcat

          “My company purchased another small company in Oklahoma, minting several 8-figure millionaires in the process.”

          Something similar happened when my wife’s dad sold the broker and management portion of his family business near the end of 2012.

          Suddenly, he was flush with money. But he distributed a lot of it among his four daughters, in cash, and spend a bunch of it buying things outright, including houses and other properties, paying up life insurances for family members, etc.

          • 0 avatar
            Lie2me

            … and aren’t you a happy desert cat because of it ;-)

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            Lie2me, actually I do not use any of my wife’s money.

            We actually live off my military retirement and our social security checks coming in every month.

            It’s the extras that get paid with that fungible money I pick up on the s!de, and the business picks up the payment for all the purchases we make on the company credit cards, including meals and some gas.

            Old trick learned from life-long Democrats. Get the business to pay your way where ever you can.

            We still have the grocery bags filled with cash money her dad brought over neatly stashed away, with his withdrawal receipts attached.

            But we won’t touch any of it unless he tells us to, or until after he and his wife die.

            If you knew his back ground and youth you would understand his reluctance to trust banks or other depositories. He grew up in Nazi Germany.

            He still uses banks for business transactions, and keeps some money in personal accounts, but the remainder he has distributed in cash to his four daughters.

            A lot of old people do that for fear the IRS will grab it after they die.

            He’s got to do something with the retirement money he gets from civil service retirement, social security AND the big money coming in every month from the rentals.

            So he takes out as much as he can in cash every month.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            “actually I do not use any of my wife’s money”

            Well can I then? Help a brother out.

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            28-Cars-Later, no.

          • 0 avatar
            Lie2me

            … and I’ll take the money with the fungus on it. You don’t want any of that nasty fungible money laying around

          • 0 avatar
            mnm4ever

            So except for cars that the family business buys you, and anything you put on the company credit card that the family business pays for, including gas and meals, and I’m betting small things like vacations, and probably insurance paid by the family business for the company cars, you live a simple life off your military retirement and social security huh?

            Such a tight budget… Must be tough… It’s a wonder how you can resist digging into those bags of money.

          • 0 avatar
            Lie2me

            ” It’s a wonder how you can resist digging into those bags of money.”

            It has fungus on it… ew

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            mnm4ever, been doing it successfully since August 1985.

            I learned a great deal from the many Democrats in this Blue State who own or operate a business. Most influential were my wife’s dad and his peers. They have honed this art into a fine science.

            Some of these business owners haven’t bought groceries for their families in decades.

            And like them, I always pull out all the traceable money out of my direct deposit account, keep my wife’s money in a separate joint account, and keep one joint account to pay bills electronically.

            And it is helpful for the wife’s brother-in-law-attorney to be a tax lawyer enrolled before the IRS. A wealth of knowledge there.

          • 0 avatar
            ajla

            @HDC:

            I don’t care how you live your life, but I really think you should keep more of this stuff on the down-low.

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            ajla, that’s always sage advise.

            But I’m not doing anything illegal or out of the ordinary, and these practices are what makes the world go’round.

            I do not live a grandiose lifestyle. I live in Wal-Mart fashion.

            Now, members of Congress have been caught actively evading taxes, but the business and my wife’s parents pay all their taxes, dutifully.

            What they do with the money left over after all the taxes are paid, that’s their business.

            They could give it away to charity but they believe that charity begins at home.

          • 0 avatar
            mike978

            HDC – a walmart life. Really? What with the expensive vehicles for you and your wife, the new or nearly new cars for children and grand children. No problem with that but it is hardly a “walmart” life.

          • 0 avatar
            ajla

            @HDC:

            Perhaps I’m mis-reading what you wrote, but if your family is charging personal expenses/gifts/meals to business accounts and is literally keeping bags of (undeclared?) cash stashed in the walls of a family member’s house “for fear the IRS will grab it after they die” then I definitely would not be publicizing that.

            Maybe your advisers have a brilliant and 100% legal strategy going that will certainly prevail in any trial and maybe everyone you know is doing it too but the brightest pebble on the ground is the one that is going to draw the most attention.

            There is just no upside in talking about it.

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            mike978, the vehicles we paid for were the 2008 Highlander, the 2011 Tundra and the 2012 Grand Cherokee, and they were paid for by the social security money I had saved up, and what I had stashed away in savings over the decades. Didn’t use anyone else’s money, strictly my own.

            My insurance costs are minimal. I buy only the minimum required by the state of New Mexico.

            Been doing this ever since I quit financing cars in 1992. No requirement to carry more insurance. That saves tons of money every six months.

            The 2015 Sequoia was paid for by the business. That was a pleasant surprise neither my wife nor I expected. It’s also got minimum coverage through USAA like the other cars. I was sweating that one because I didn’t have $67K laying around.

            I know old codgers in my area who buy a new car every year and do it all with the money they save up because they take in more than what they spend every month. They have nothing else, and no debts.

            How much money does it take for two old people to live and sustain themselves if they have no debts? Not much.

            Those are the benefits of the “Pay as you go” lifestyle. The business doesn’t pick up the cost of our utilities, and what the business does pick up is not that much because it is used in conjunction with the business interests.

            The cost of living in New Mexico is lower than most places. I can get buy with buying everything I need at Wal-Mart. And I don’t need a whole lot.

          • 0 avatar
            mnm4ever

            @hdc… I’m just teasing, I’m quite envious of your success, I hope to emulate it as I get older. But it’s important to note that unless your business is successful you can’t really have it “buy things” for anyone. The money comes from somewhere, and at the core there is a generous business owner, that Sequoia isn’t free. That’s always been our problem, our businesses haven’t yet made enough to take advantage of much beyond some minor tax savings.

            I also don’t agree with carrying only the minimum insurance coverage. At least here in Florida, there is way too many shady accident attorneys trying to cash in on faked injuries. It isn’t worth the risk facing a possible lawsuit to save $100 a month or so.

          • 0 avatar
            mnm4ever

            Oh and your probably the only person on this site who does have $67k literally lying around… In grocery bags you said, right?? :)

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            mnm4ever, don’t be envious. It was a long, hard slog for me. And I would not care to have to do it again.

            Whatever I have accomplished, at age 68 I’m too old to enjoy it. The time to enjoy things are when you’re still young enough to appreciate them. Now old age gets in the way of everything I do.

            We had planned to buy our final cars of our driving life with our own money. Not having to pony up the money for the Sequoia was really, really great.

            I was short $16K for the Sequoia. Then again, we would not have bought the Platinum version. But now I’m closer to my goal of buying my last truck.

            The bottom line is, max out your life when you’re young enough to enjoy and appreciate it. My kids do. They’re all gainfully employed.

            Now, for my grandkids, this is an entirely different world, one that requires them to get a lot of help to launch. That is what I will devote the rest of my life to. Getting them launched.

          • 0 avatar
            mnm4ever

            Thanks for the advice, I will keep it in mind!

    • 0 avatar
      hubcap

      “…these folks cant appreciate the nuance of a Teutonic sedan.”

      Maybe they can but it’s not what they want. Perhaps this is confined solely to me, though I’m reasonably sure there are others who share the same feeling. Your money should be used to buy something you want and enjoy not something to prove to others that you have good taste.

      I’m curious. Do you have a Teutonic sedan? And if not, why? It’s what all the cultured people are driving dontchaknow?

      I truly do not understand the condescension directed towards people who like trucks.

      • 0 avatar
        Lou_BC

        @hubcap – “I truly do not understand the condescension directed towards people who like trucks.”

        Your comment remind’s me of a guy I knew who was married to a Cardiologist. He was social climbing suck ass.

        He cornered me one day because he was mountain biking in Whistler (a ski resort community) and got his his butt kicked by a 40-something guy on a 10k mountain bike. He couldn’t figure out how the guy could afford such a bike but drove around in a beat up Chevy crewcab “bush” truck.
        The guy who spanked him had told him he was on his way to watch some buddies race pro motocross. I was involved in the local club so he figured I’d know who the guy was.
        Turned out the guy was a local logger….. a very wealthy local logger.
        I rubbed his face in the fact the guy had his own helicopter in his back yard and his wife drove around in the latest high end BMW.

        Never look down upon a guy in a truck – he may very well be the richest guy in town.

        • 0 avatar
          hubcap

          @Lou_BC

          You’re comment reminds me of a conversation I overheard one day.

          Lady 1: You know the Smiths and how Cheryl is saying their business is doing really well?

          Lady 2: Yeah

          Lady 1: Well, I don’t believe it.

          Lady 2: Why?

          Lady 1: Because they own a Nissan truck. If they we’re doing so well they’d have the Infiniti version.

          Lady 2: *looks askance at Lady 1 and says nothing*

          (names changed for the simple fact that I don’t remember them)

          I’m sure there are plenty of people in you’re neck of the woods who do quite well in lumber and oil. Some might even drive trucks. Don’t they know they should be driving a Teutonic sedan lest they be mistaken for the riff raff?

      • 0 avatar
        Occam

        I hope I didn’t come across that way. My grandfather always had a Ford truck, usually with pieces of whatever project he was working on at the time scattered across the bed. He did NOT have a fiberglass cover over the bed, nor did he have any bro-dozer accessories!

        I owned a pickup for about three years, and while it was handy from time to time, I didn’t enjoy driving it. I still have occasion to drive one for work about once a year, and always walk away wondering why anyone would want to drive that every day (late model F150).

        But that’s what cool about TTAC: There’s a fan base for EVERYTHING here!

    • 0 avatar
      petezeiss

      “the nuance of a Teutonic sedan”

      I am costly and I will insult you in every possible way. You will look good while these things are happening to you but will flee from me after three years. Now come here.

    • 0 avatar
      mnm4ever

      @sporty – that sounds like my kind of town… I love me some silicone and boat parties!

    • 0 avatar
      mnm4ever

      @sportyaccord – that sounds like my kind of town… I love me some silicone and boat parties!

  • avatar
    Occam

    I’m always surprised at the number of pickup fans on this site. I’m writing down all your names; I better not see you complaining about how boring and soulless a Camry is to drive – it feels like a Maserati next to a pickup!

    Also, I have some stuff I need to move next week; what is your beer of choice?

    • 0 avatar
      highdesertcat

      Sam Adams.

    • 0 avatar
      Lie2me

      Stuff your belongings in your Maserati Camry and enjoy your move, we’ll be across the street on our tailgates watching and drinking HDC’s beer ;-)

      • 0 avatar
        highdesertcat

        LOL! Been there and done that. I have to say though, that there is an amazing amount of stuff you can squeeze into a four-door Camry sedan.

        My brother and his wife moved that way from Huntsville, AL, to Manhattan, NYC, NY, a few years back.

        He towed a Leaf on a trailer behind his F150 and had the bed stuffed with suitcases, boxes, duffel bags, and that left only the Camry to get stuffed with clothes, etc.

        • 0 avatar
          MK

          Rocket City to NYC?

          Man, he sure went the wrong direction! ;)

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            Naw. It was what he stood to gain that made him do it. It’s what his wife wanted.

            His wife’s dad retired from Wall Street and the Brokerage business and transferred their highrise condo to his daughter (gratis).

            Her dad and mom bought an RV and moved to New Mexico where they bought some humongous wooded tract of land in the Santa Fe-Taos area. He had his fill of Big City life.

            I visited my brother in Manhattan ONCE. He can keep it. No way would I live in a Metropolis. Too f’n much traffic. Too damn many people.

            And I don’t like people. Worst creatures on the planet.

        • 0 avatar
          dal20402

          I drove across the country in my G8 in early 2012 to start a new job. My then fiancee (now wife) wanted to continue her existing job for a while longer, and so I took with me only what I could fit in the G8. Enough stuff fit in that car, with some room to spare, for me to live an ascetic but tolerable life until she came over and the professional movers brought all our stuff.

          The drive would have been harder with a pickup unless the pickup had a canopy or locking bed cap. And certainly the pickup wouldn’t have flown over the Montana passes at 90+ mph while not shifting out of sixth gear… that part was fun.

    • 0 avatar
      bikegoesbaa

      I say this as a decidedly not-pickup guy whose daily drivers are a sporty MT hatchback and a Miata: Full-size pickups are more fun and more comfortable than Camry class sedans; especially on a long interstate cruise.

      Better visibility, more room, and greater ability to smother out bad pavement via mass/wheelbase/travel adds up to a pleasant long drive, indeed.

      I still think it’s inherently ridiculous that a large part of this country considers what are industrial/agricultural vehicles at heart to be an appropriate platform for personal transportation; but after a few generations working on it the results are satisfactory aside from that fuel economy bit. And the bro dozers.

    • 0 avatar
      krhodes1

      The best part about getting your friends with pickups to help you move things is they tend to be the sorts who aren’t very smart and can lift heavy things. And they often work for really CHEAP beer. My BMW buddies will only work for the expensive craft beer.

    • 0 avatar
      PrincipalDan

      @occam, my truck has a bumper sticker that says: “Yes this is my truck, NO I will not help me move.”

      However for sufficient amounts of hefeweizen I could be persuaded.

    • 0 avatar
      Lou_BC

      @Occam – hmmm…….. ever drive down a remote logging road at 80 mph?

      I saw a video where a F150 3.5 EB was just as fast as a 5.0 Mustang on a drag strip.

      SRT Ram with the V10 set a record at over 154 mph.

      A Raptor boring and soulless?

      To a guy who buys a truck and has no need for one……….. maybe.

      I’ll take ANY pickup over ANY Camry ANY day.

  • avatar
    Vulpine

    Why? What makes a pickup truck better than a car–especially a luxury car? This is just one of the points that has me questioning the American attitude about pickup trucks and simply confirms to me that the vast majority of modern pickup trucks aren’t even USED as trucks! It just doesn’t make sense!

    • 0 avatar
      Lorenzo

      An 80 inch wide, 156 inch wheelbase 4-door F150 with a front bench will (fairly) comfortably fit seven people (including two kids under 13), three in front, four in back. A 75 inch wide, 124 inch wheelbase BMW 750Li will just seat five, with less leg room and hip room. The Ford 3.5 V6 will even get better mileage on regular gas than the BMW turbo V8 will get on premium, hold its value better, and be easier to maintain/repair.

  • avatar
    mags1110

    How can people sleep at night knowing they have a $700 car payment month after month after month till there truck is worth less then half they paid…i love trucks but give me a break! What is wrong with people, how do you justify it? Does anyone have an IRA account a little change in the bank? Yuck, i may be in the minority on this but, you can keep it Ford I don’t want it.

  • avatar
    Lou_BC

    @mags1110 –

    “How can people sleep at night knowing they have a $700 car payment month after month after month”

    that applies to ANY vehicle.

    • 0 avatar
      S2k Chris

      I’ve got 2 at $550/ea. one was sooner than planned (wanted to pay one off and then add the other, but a deer made other plans for us so we’ll overlap a year) but still plenty doable. I’m not trying to brag, but there are still people who are doing okay in the world; my two car payments represent about 10% of my monthly take home, after 401k and savings and stuff are taken out. I sleep just fine.

      • 0 avatar
        bball40dtw

        I’m in a similar boat with my car payments but I know my situation, or yours, isn’t the norm. My property taxes also cost more on a monthly basis than any apartment I had while in college. I don’t worry about my mortgage and taxes like I used to worry about my rent. Maybe I should move back into an apartment and buy another car….

    • 0 avatar
      mnm4ever

      Ditto… I personally have a mental block about a car payment over $400 or so, any more than that and it starts to seem excessive. But in reality, if you make $10k or so a month, $700 isn’t that big of a deal to a lot of people. And for most people a $700 car payment pales in comparison to the amount they spend on a house or taxes or even basics like food and utilities. What would keep me up at night is paying $1000+ per month in property taxes and insurance like many of my coworkers. I drive an extra 30 minutes than they do but my entire house payment is less than their tax bill.

      • 0 avatar
        bball40dtw

        $1000 for taxes and insurance? Yuck. I pay between $500 and $600 a month in taxes and insurance and that is bad enough.

        • 0 avatar
          mnm4ever

          A couple of my friends with waterfront homes are paying around a grand a month for taxes and then another grand for insurance. High property values combined with older homes in newly designated flood/hurricane zones are a bad combination.

          They nearly pay more in one month for those things than I pay all year.

  • avatar
    S2k Chris

    I get to pay ~$8500/yr in property tax, plus another grand in insurance, for a very average 1800sq ft ranch on a postage stamp in IL, worth about $250k on a good day. Awesome.

    • 0 avatar
      Lie2me

      Geez, what burb do you live in?

      • 0 avatar
        mikey

        Totally off topic here. In the USA you can write off you mortgage interest right ? Can you write off your property tax ?

      • 0 avatar
        S2k Chris

        Crystal Lake. McHenry County SUCKS.

        • 0 avatar
          Lie2me

          I had no idea taxes were so high in Crystal Lake

        • 0 avatar
          highdesertcat

          It’s no worse than Southern California. That’s why so many in SoCal are cashing out and high-tailing it out of the state.

          • 0 avatar
            S2k Chris

            As a percentage it’s much worse than SoCal; my house would be $600-800k+ there. And SoCal is geographically constrained to some extent, my house is in a cornfield, with plenty more buildable cornfields to go. It’s our criminal pension systems and insane teacher/administrator pay that’s killing this state. My SIL is a HS history teacher, 10 years of seniority, and a masters, and is north of $100k a year. Crazy.

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            Yes, from that perspective, you are right. Same facts, different ways of looking at it.

            However, many fleeing California don’t analyze it that way.

            In a way it is good for the people who need a place to live and don’t mind sticking themselves in debt for upwards of $500K.

            And it is also good for the people selling their homes in California and then buying a home for cash in a state like Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, Colorado, Nevada or Idaho.

          • 0 avatar
            bball40dtw

            I agree with Chris. As a percentage, I pay way more in Michigan than I did in Arizona or California. My condo in Arizona is still under $1000 in taxes as a non-resident.

        • 0 avatar
          bball40dtw

          Worse than Cook County?

          • 0 avatar
            S2k Chris

            Cook has the lowest (property) taxes, it’s where all the industry is, plus they have crazy high sales tax (shop in the other two for big ticket items). IMO, in this area:

            -Cook: lowest taxes, crappy political climate, most desirable
            -McHenry: High taxes, but OK services (schools, roads, etc)
            -Lake: Highest taxes, worst services (can’t plow for crap)

            Don’t know about Kane, DuPage, etc.

            We’re renting our house out and shopping for something in Cook; it will cost ~$100k more, but will be MUCH closer to work, have better schools, and property taxes will be roughly the same.

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            I don’t know about that. As a renter the taxes are imbedded in the rent.

            And when there is an overabundance of empty rentals, rents go askew because it is better to have some money coming in, than no money coming in from an empty rental.

          • 0 avatar
            Lie2me

            It’s bad in Cook County as well

            I grew up in Park Ridge, the house I grew up in is probably $400K taxes are about $10K

          • 0 avatar
            S2k Chris

            “I don’t know about that. As a renter the taxes are imbedded in the rent.

            And when there is an overabundance of empty rentals, rents go askew because it is better to have some money coming in, than no money coming in from an empty rental.”

            Not sure if this is in response to me; I’m saying I’m keeping my CL house but renting it (and nearly covering the mortgage + tax + insurance due to the crazy number of SS/foreclosure folks who can’t get a mortgage). The houses I’m shopping are in the $350k range, with roughly equivalent tax bills than the one I pay now on a $250k house.

          • 0 avatar
            Lie2me

            I’m in Lake Geneva now. Wi. has notoriously high taxes but less then half what you pay same size, same value

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            S2K Chris, it’s a response to the comment thread descending from your initial comment.

            In your case, you still have to wrap your taxes and mortgage payment into the rent charge.

            Unless you own that house outright at which point you only have to cover the annual taxes with the rent you are going to charge.

    • 0 avatar
      bball40dtw

      I’d be paying more in the Detroit area if the city/county/state could adjust my taxable value faster. In Michigan, taxable value can’t increase more than the CPI or 5%, whichever is lower. Right now, the state says the estimated value of my house is way higher than my taxable value (because I bought low). I still pay $6000/year, but I’d be at $8500 like you if Proposal A wasn’t passed in the 90s. They’ll get me eventually.

      (1500 sq ft bungalow in Northern Detroit suburb on a 1/5 of an acre lot)

      I am also VERY certain that my homeowners insurance will sky rocket upon renewal, since 90% of the homes in the city I live in flooded last summer.

      • 0 avatar
        Lie2me

        Flooded? most insurance doesn’t cover flooding

        • 0 avatar
          highdesertcat

          No homeowners insurance covers flooding. You have to buy separate flood insurance from Uncle Sam, and then it only pays out if it is “flowing” water that floods your home.

          Be very careful when signing up for this farce, unless yours is a Beach house. The government will pay you each time to rebuild after a storm.

          • 0 avatar
            Lie2me

            Up to three times. I lost two homes to hurricanes, three strikes you’re out, so I no longer live on the beach

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            Lie2Me, didn’t John Stossel or Geraldo Rivera do a documentary where they said that their beach house had been rebuild six times after storms?

            I seem to remember that.

          • 0 avatar
            Lie2me

            They’ve since changed the rules

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            Lie2me, got it. Even the government must have come to its senses after the documentary.

          • 0 avatar
            Lie2me

            Even I the beneficiary of such insurance policies have to applaud the government for setting limits, if nature doesn’t want you there then leave

        • 0 avatar
          bball40dtw

          It was sewer backup. I have a sewer backup rider. It covered $10000, but I needed a new furance, water heater, washer, dryer, fridge, freezer, and have the first few feet of drywall torn out. My backwater valves were installed today. Set me back another couple grand.

          Everything the poo water touches must be destroyed.

          • 0 avatar
            Lie2me

            You were lucky to have the proper insurance. Now get yourself a stand pipe

          • 0 avatar
            bball40dtw

            I have three backwater valves now, so I think I’m good. With a stand pipe, if my indoor plumping were to leak, the water would just collect in the basement? Since the sewer water was above our laundry tub, I fear that the water would have just come shooting out of there instead. We were f%*ked no matter what.

            My friend plugged up his floor drain and all the water came shooting out of his main floor toilet. I know someone else that had a backwater valve, but had an old crock line from the house to street. It broke right where it came in his house and caved in the foundation.

          • 0 avatar
            Lie2me

            Yep, you were, I just remember as a kid in suburban Chicago every time it rained heavy it was my job to screw in the stand pipe

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            What is a stand pipe?

          • 0 avatar
            Lie2me

            A pipe about 3ft tall that you screwed into the floor drain in your basement to keep the sewer from backing up into your house during heavy rain. You probably didn’t have them in Pittsburgh because of the hills, but where it’s really flat stuff that usually flows down hill backs up in your basement

          • 0 avatar
            raresleeper

            Are you sure you don’t mean… stovepipe?

            As in… stovepipe hat. (Drum Roll)

            As in…. *MY* stovepipe hat!!!!

            Doing it like the 1800’s, baby!! Yeah!!!

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            Ah. I can’t recall a sewage backup ever occurring to anyone here (which is not to say it has not). Some places have drainage issues though.

          • 0 avatar
            Lie2me

            You also have a couple of rivers that from time to time through out history have wiped out downtown Pittsburgh

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            That’s true, but the lesson there is don’t live on the river. The only thing which seems to frequently flood by the rivers in my lifetime is the Mon Wharf which causes parking issues in an already limited parking area. What’s going to get real here I suspect in the next few years is the need to replace some of the major bridges a good bit of which are structurally deficient. They’ve only known about the replacement need for my entire life as most of the major bridges date to the late 1920s and earlier. The bridge the “T” light rail system uses dates to 1903 and was a railroad bridge (panhandle). I’m not up on traffic amounts but the three most heavily used bridges IMO coming from the South Hills are the Fort Pitt, Fort Duquesne, and Liberty Bridges. There has been talk about having to replace the Liberty Bridge but fortunately the other two are thirty years newer.

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bridges_of_Pittsburgh

  • avatar
    mikey

    @S2k Chris…. Interesting. I’m in heavily taxed Ontario, in the eastern end of the Greater Toronto Area. I got just under 1600 sq ft, on a 65 x 135 lot. In todays market I’d get north of 500K. Everything from groceries, to pick up trucks costs more in Canada than it does in the USA. A lot more.

    My property tax is $5300 , and insurance, with all the bells, and whistles $ 750..

    • 0 avatar
      Lie2me

      I thought taxes were high in Canada, yours are quite reasonable

    • 0 avatar
      28-Cars-Later

      Ironically a property roughly that size (+/- 400 sq foot) will go for about 4K in taxes in a nicer borough of Pittsburgh (Greentree) and 6K+ in a more premium one (Mt Lebanon) as recently as spring 2013 when I looked. Pricing varies between the two but neither is anywhere near 500K (about half that in the premium borough, maybe 180s in the “nice” one). The McMansions in Virginia Manor are between 10-12K taxes on average, maybe 300-400K properties.

  • avatar
    mikey

    Well property tax is okay. Income Tax, and purchase Tax?? It can get nasty.

    • 0 avatar
      Lie2me

      They always get you somewhere

    • 0 avatar
      28-Cars-Later

      I can’t speak for your nation, but what I have observed over the last hundred years are a series of cartels which have sprung up right in my own country which require more and more revenue to feed. The war cartel or the so called “military industrial complex”, the higher and lower education cartels, the Fed money cartel etc. Absolute monopolies, all fleecing the sheeple. None of these things existed at the turn of the century.

      • 0 avatar
        petezeiss

        “what I have observed over the last hundred years”

        Dayyum! You older than that Canadian dude with the derby!

      • 0 avatar
        Lie2me

        ” Absolute monopolies, all fleecing the sheeple. None of these things existed at the turn of the century.”

        Which century? If you’re talking the 20th century they had their own set of atrocities to deal with. Robber barons, child labor in sweat shops etc

        • 0 avatar
          28-Cars-Later

          Indeed, but we’ve simply gone from private robber barons to public tax fed cartels.

          If you look at the sheer madness the Pentagon engages in all over the world while Emperor O plays the fiddle as the country burns, it should wake you from your slumber.

          Why was Iraq allowed to completely collapse?
          Why is Kurdistan suddenly becoming a legitimate regional power?
          Why was ISIS running around with markings on its brand new truck hood only despite the fact it had/has no air force and US drones and satellites were constantly watching them?
          Why is ISIS only striking Western targets outside of Iraq and Syria when Israel is only right next door?
          Who is *really* in control of the southern Iraqi oil fields? Could the Kuwaitis or Saudis be buying or pumping its oil in order to cover for their own true shortfalls in production?

          Many questions, not many answers.

        • 0 avatar
          28-Cars-Later

          Indeed, but we’ve simply gone from private robber barons to public tax fed cartels.

          If you look at the sheer madness the Pentagon engages in all over the world while Emperor O plays the fiddle as the country burns, it should wake you from your slumber.

          Why was Iraq allowed to completely collapse?
          Why is Kurdistan suddenly becoming a legitimate regional power?
          Why was ISIS running around with markings on its brand new truck hood only despite the fact it had/has no air force and US drones and satellites were constantly watching them?
          Why is ISIS only striking Western targets outside of Iraq and Syria when Israel is only right next door?
          Who is *really* in control of the southern Iraqi oil fields? Could the Kuwaitis or Saudis be buying or pumping its oil in order to cover for their own true shortfalls in production?

          Many questions, not many answers..

        • 0 avatar
          28-Cars-Later

          @Lie2me

          I wrote a reply but it was eaten, it may show back up.

          • 0 avatar
            Lie2me

            That’s weird because I read your reply and now it’s gone

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            I do hope it shows back up but based on official actions of past twelve years I have concluded the West by-in-large is run by a clique of sociopaths and/or complete psychopaths.

  • avatar
    28-Cars-Later

    @Lie2me

    Indeed, but we’ve simply gone from private robber barons to public tax fed cartels.

    If you look at the sheer madness the Pentagon engages in all over the world while Emperor O plays the fiddle as the country burns, it should wake you from your slumber.

    Why was Iraq allowed to completely collapse?
    Why is Kurdistan suddenly becoming a legitimate regional power?
    Why was ISIL running around with markings only on its brand new truck hood only despite the fact it had/has no air force and US drones and satellites were constantly watching them?
    Why is ISIL only striking Western targets outside of Iraq and Syria when Israel is only right next door?
    Who is *really* in control of the southern Iraqi oil fields? Could the Kuwa*tis or Saudis be buying or pumping its oil in order to cover for their own true shortfalls in production?

    Many questions, not many answers.

  • avatar
    mags1110

    if “most and “normal” people don’t mind spending $700+ plus a month for a truck that’s not worth shit in a few years then why are eco cars and cheap lease deals dominating all? I think you should pull your head out of your dark hole. I’m doing fine myself, but I guess I have higher standards for a vehicle that cost $700+ I diffidently wouldn’t be settling for a truck…

  • avatar
    minminhaj

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    new cars for sale Johannesburg because i live there that was seven series BMW look like the same i was reguler user of emoto but would like to visit thetruthaboutcar
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