By on October 27, 2014

2010-2011_Toyota_Prius_--_12-21-2011

“I think it’s fairly interesting from a cultural memory standpoint, that American car buyers, for the most part, don’t seem to have memory of gas prices two, three or six months ago,”

–  TrueCar President John Krafcik speaking to NPR about slumping hybrid sales.

According to NPR, hybrid sales are off by about 5 percent this year, despite a new car market that’s on track for a record year. Sales of trucks and SUVs, on the other hand, are up by double digits.

For many consumers, the extra cost of a hybrid just isn’t worth it. Not when the internal combustion engine has gotten so efficient, and the fuel efficiency of the overall new vehicle fleet is bound to be a big improvement, especially given that the average vehicle on the road is 11 years old.

Get the latest TTAC e-Newsletter!

123 Comments on “Quote Of The Day: Gas Price Amnesia...”


  • avatar
    jacob_coulter

    It’s not about gas prices, the Prius (and other hybrids) were a cultural statement for certain people. You had Hollywood celebrities tripping over themselves to show the world they drove a Prius (when they weren’t flying on a private jet)

    It’s no longer a trendy vehicle to own anymore, so the reality of cost vs savings comes into play rather than the statement of owning one; and for most people, it just doesn’t make much sense. To pay $8,000 more for an economy car that saves $15 a month in gas (plus the complexity of a hybrid system) most people wisely pass.

    I’m not crapping on the Prius, it was a home run for Toyota and they brilliantly executed a complex design.

    • 0 avatar

      I would agree with you, except the Prius doesn’t demand nearly the premium that you suggest. It has quite a big more space than your standard economy car, and is viewed by most as a replacement family sedan. And your explanation of the Prius doesn’t explain why the Hybrid Camry or Fusion or Prius C might be dipping in sales as well. None of those cars are particularly identifiable Hybrids (the C just looks like a hatchback).

      • 0 avatar
        darkwing

        I disagree — among my family car-buying friends, the Prius is seen as more of a pricey compact than a Camcordata. (Though, admittedly, less compact and less pricey than in the past.) And that Camcordata is seen as less practical than a CUV, so now it’s two steps removed and thus more of a style decision.

        The poor performance of the hybrid versions of the sedans isn’t surprising — not being as obviously a hybrid reduces the style quotient, and the hybrid versions are significantly compromised, so their appeal is going to be lower.

      • 0 avatar
        jkross22

        The Prius is a replacement for an Accord, Camry, etc? Not by a long shot. It’s a small car, not a family sedan.

    • 0 avatar
      jmo

      “(plus the complexity of a hybrid system)”

      Can we put an end to that B&B canard? The Prius hybrid drive results in one of (if not the) more reliable and durable car ever made.

      • 0 avatar
        ttacgreg

        The complexity lies in the electronic controls. Mechanically, the HSD gear set is extremely simple relative to any other conventional transmission. One ring gear for the wheels & large electric motor, four planetary gears hooked to the gas motor, one sun gear to the smaller electric motor, that’s it.

        • 0 avatar
          psarhjinian

          Complexity != unreliability

          If you’ve owned a car with a distributor and/or a carb, you can attest to that.

          The nice thing about the Prius is that the mechanical components, thanks to the managed powertrain, lead a much less stressed life. Even brakes last longer on a hybrid.

          The reliability and TCO arguments for hybrids are playing about pretty much the same way they did for EFI and ECU-driven cars versus the tragedy that even simple, vacuum-actuated controls were.

          • 0 avatar
            Pch101

            It seems that some of the others who are posting here confuse simplicity of repair with reliability.

            The older cars were easier to fix, but they did they break less often? Absolutely not.

          • 0 avatar
            krhodes1

            I’d say old cars weren’t even easier to fix. Modern cars tell you what is wrong with them, often pretty clearly. You practically needed to be a fortune teller to fix cars in the old days.

            The good old days weren’t that good, in fact they kind of sucked.

          • 0 avatar
            Pch101

            In the old days, it was easier to improvise repairs and use common products to keep things going. WD-40 and electrical tape just won’t get you as far these days.

      • 0 avatar
        jacob_coulter

        It is more complex. Period.

        You can argue that Toyota does a great job with that complexity (and it does) but not every car company is Toyota. And it does lead to repairs that other conventional power trains don’t have (like a new battery pack that’s about the same prices as a new transmission)

        Also, many hybrids use systems like electric power steering, electric ac compressors, electric water pumps, etc. These parts are MUCH more expensive (and usually more difficult to replace) than their conventional counterparts.

        If you took away the hybrid drivetrain on the Prius and simply had a conventional Corolla powerplant, it would be even more reliable.

        • 0 avatar
          VoGo

          Regardless, Jacob,
          The Prius has been shown to be highly reliable in a variety of circumstances. Perhaps the most reliable vehicle on the market today.

          So why are you pressing the issue of complexity? Any car sold today has microprocessors which are complex in ways that car designers 40 years ago couldn’t imagine. How is that bad?

        • 0 avatar
          bball40dtw

          Everyone is using electric power steering now.

          I hate the battery pack replacement arguement too. There are reconditioned battery packs going for $800 installed. Plus, there are plenty of Prii, Camry Hybrids, Escape Hybrids, and Fusion Hybrids driving around with 200k miles and an original battery pack.

        • 0 avatar
          Pch101

          The electric motor reduces the workload on the conventional motor. That should aid the Prius’ long-term reliability; for a given amount of mileage, the gas motor will have done less work.

          It would be interesting to see how things would compare if we had hour meters in our cars, and not just odometers.

          • 0 avatar
            psarhjinian

            “The electric motor reduces the workload on the conventional motor. That should aid the Prius’ long-term reliability; for a given amount of mileage, the gas motor will have done less work.”

            It’s not just that it reduces the net hours, it’s that it reduces the extremes; the powertrain is run at optimal levels.

            And it’s not just the powertrain; chassis wear and tear is reduced, too.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            My Pontiac actually does have a hours meter build into the DIC’s trip computer, not sure why newer cars do/would not.

        • 0 avatar
          dal20402

          It is more complex only in software. Not in hardware.

          And it wouldn’t be more reliable with a conventional powerplant, because the hybrid system has several effects that increase reliability. In the real world, Priuses *are* more reliable than Corollas, and there’s a reason.

          In a Prius, the ICE lives a very easy life. It never revs past 4500 rpm, doesn’t experience sudden speed transitions, and rarely has to run at full load. The brunt of the wear is borne by the electric motor, and those are almost indestructible. The planetary-gearset transmission is considerably simpler than a traditional automatic, and much harder to break. The regenerative braking minimizes brake wear and heat.

          These benefits are particularly pronounced in city driving — and most Priuses are found in the city.

        • 0 avatar
          Dr. Kenneth Noisewater

          Also, many hybrids use systems like electric power steering, electric ac compressors, electric water pumps, etc. These parts are MUCH more expensive (and usually more difficult to replace) than their conventional counterparts.

          They’re more efficient, more reliable, and when scale of manufacture goes up, cost differentials will be reduced.

          The overall weight, efficiency and reliability of components not needing to be tied/clutched to a variable-speed accessory belt is higher, leading to a better vehicle. Belts suck.

          If you took away the hybrid drivetrain on the Prius and simply had a conventional Corolla powerplant, it would be even more reliable.

          [citation needed]

      • 0 avatar
        Sigivald

        Citation, please?

        (Even in initial quality surveys, it’s merely “very good like one more or less expects from a Toyota” rather than “exceptionally better than other cars”.

        If there’s long-term reliability data that places it *that highly* I can’t find it.

        Now, if you refine that to “not more fragile than non-hybrids ala a Corolla”, that’s perfectly plausible.)

    • 0 avatar

      My brother certainly didn’t need a Prius with his and his wife’s combined income, but I don’t think it was a cultural statement, or he would have gotten fixed the minor crease in the sheet metal. (Sajeev did a piston slap on that at my request.) But he just loves saving gas. (The other car is a late model Jetta TDI.)

      I do have one friend, though, a musician who is not exactly rolling in the dough, and puts a lot of miles driving to gigs, and that was a big part of the motivation (the other being the great frequency of repair record). I can’t help suspecting that a lot of potential Prius buyers are waiting for the new model.

      I do think there’s a lot of gas price amnesia going on, though. Or else pickups and big SUVs would be tanking.

      • 0 avatar
        Pch101

        Most of the gas guzzlers have tanked. The mainstream SUV and minivan markets have both taken tremendous hits since the oil bubble of several years ago.

        The large pickup market also declined, although it has recovered some of its losses and the higher transaction prices make up for the decline in volume.

        If we crunched the numbers further, I think that we’d find that the sub-segment of buyers that is most sensitive to higher fuel prices has bailed out of these things. Those who remain have more cash (or at least they live as if they do), and are less sensitive to more costly vehicles and more costly fuel.

        Hence, those who are still buying trucks are paying a lot for them; they are paying for big engines and plenty of options. But their buyer profiles don’t resemble those who used to buy these things but no longer do.

      • 0 avatar

        “I do think there’s a lot of gas price amnesia going on, though. Or else pickups and big SUVs would be tanking.”
        That’s assuming Pickups and SUV buyers are buying them as opposed to cars.
        If,on the other hand,they are buying replacements for older Pickups,SUVs(and minivans),then they are buying higher MPG vehicles.

      • 0 avatar
        M1EK

        My older Prius (2004) now does as much hauling as commuting. Another place the “it’s just a Civic” argument falls apart – put the seat down and it’s a small SUV. Just went camping with it and fit as much in as the smaller pickup trucks did.

    • 0 avatar
      Xeranar

      You’re flying in the face of Occam’s razor on this one. The only Hybrid-only models are 5 model years old already (Prius & Insight) or are a price premium on models that sell well in lower trim levels. The reason they’re down in sales is more mundane than any ludicrous ‘status symbol’ argument which faded more than a decade ago.

      Also a Prius brand new out the door is hovering between $22-30K (I’m throwing in the discounts available on the toyota website) and nearly 50 MPG vs. high-30s for nearly everybody else in the group. Presuming real world ratings are about 10% off actual gas savings should be about 10-11 MPG so 11K miles a year $260 a year which sounds like a decent deal if you’re looking for a nicely equipped compact/mid-size since the Prius comes with better features than most base-line compacts and runs closer to top trim models.

    • 0 avatar
      Erikstrawn

      It’s more trendy to dislike the Prius. My dad bought one for practical reasons. He commuted less than 5 miles and mostly made trips in-town. It’s a nice car, relatively spacious, and drives pretty good. The only problem he’s had was the trim on the rear bumper coming loose. A heatgun and some double-sticky tape fixed that. He didn’t pay much of a premium over similarly sized and equipped cars.

    • 0 avatar
      C. Alan

      Jacob, you need to go drive a Prius. They are not economy cars. I did a 120 mile commute every day for five years, and have had my share of economy cars. I would put the Prius in a class above the Corolla or Chevy Cruz. They are quieter inside, and are of better build quality.

      Long distance commuting is a balancing act between comfort and fuel economy. The Prius strikes a pretty good balance between theses two.

    • 0 avatar
      C. Alan

      I wouldn’t classify a Prius as an economy car. I am a vetran of over five years of 120 miles per day commuting. I have owned a lot of economy cars, and I would put the prius in a class above them. The average Corolla, Civic or Cruz can’t hold a candle to the build quality, and freeway confort of a Prius.

      Long distance commuting is a balancing act between comfort and fuel economy. The Prius strikes that balance pretty well.

  • avatar
    Occam

    Honestly, I don’t notice the price of gas that often. I didn’t realize it was back below $3 until everyone started commenting on it. I also didn’t notice it was over $3.50 a while back until everyone started commenting on it.

    When the tank gets low, I swipe my card, fill it up, and go about my life. Gas is such a small part of my budget, it’s just not that noticable. Assuming I pay $1700/year for $3 gas, and $4 gas comes out to $2267/year (a $567 difference), and the change is typically pretty gradual. It’s just not a difference that you notice unless you either obsessively watch the pumps, or live paycheck to paycheck on a string and a prayer… and they shouldn’t be buying new cars anyway!

  • avatar
    VoGo

    Derek,
    No offense, but I take issue with the statement “For many consumers, the extra cost of a hybrid just isn’t worth it.” I think that for any consumer looking for a new car, considering a hybrid is a smart move.

    If you are looking to buy a new Accord as an example, MSRP on the EX-L is $28,420, while MSRP on the Hybrid EX-L is $32,055, a difference of $3,635.

    Which even if gas stays at $3/gallon means you make up that difference in 110K miles. So the only consumer for whom a hybrid isn’t worthwhile is one who can’t keep a Honda Accord on the road for 110K miles. Which consumer is that, really?

    Inevitably, there is someone who says, “well what if I only plan to keep the car for 3 years, then what?” And the answer is this: The car’s resale value, in a rational market, will reflect the continued gas savings for the life of the car, meaning that you are likely to get about $2,800 additional for the hybrid vs. normal ICE, while you have saved $1,200 while you owned it. So, you paid an extra $3,635 and saved $4,000.

    At which point, someone says, “but the Prius is a crappy car to drive and it threatens my delicate manhood to be seen in one”, or something similar. To which I would refer you to the TTAC reviews of the Accord Hybrid, which refer to it as not only the best Accord for sale, but the best mainstream midsize car.

    Rational people take advantage of market anomalies.

    • 0 avatar
      krhodes1

      I have great faith in Toyotas hybrid system, to the point that I got my Mother into a Prius-V that is likely to be the last car she ever owns. Though that being said, the car was chosen because she needed a car that could easily carry cargo and aged grandparents and dogs, not because it was a hybrid. It was the best station wagon out there for her needs, the fuel economy was a bonus. And Toyota was practically giving them away. I have no such faith in Honda. The Accord hybrid is a brand new and rather different system than Toyotas, and Hondas hybrid track record is rather poor for reliability and durability.

      Ultimately I think each person has to work the numbers. The basic 4-cylinder Camcordimas get really good highway mileage, and OK city. If you have an urban commute, then a hybrid makes a lot of sense. If you don’t, they don’t. I like the form factor of all three Prii being a hatch/wagon person, but they do suck to drive. The performance is adequate, but they have zero road feel and are loud.

      Ultimately, for most new car buyers, myself included, fuel economy is WAAAY down the list of things that are important. I do very little urban driving, so anything that can get 30mpg highway is fine with me. Gas just isn’t a significant part of my budget, nor many others.

    • 0 avatar
      Sigivald

      So, “it starts saving you a little money in 8-10 years” [assuming roughly average mileage] is all they got goin’ for them?

      Not super enthused by that.

      (Remember also that a rational market knows that while the initial worries about hybrid batteries were overblown, they WILL need replacing someday, and it’s not free, even if it’s sub-$1k.

      The used market will tend to price that in, and I’ll be shocked to see An Extra $2800 For A 110kmi Hybrid.

      KBB has a 2005 Accord Hybrid worth $500 more than a 2005 non-Hybrid [highish-spec V6 for fairness, since the Hybrid there is based on the V6].

      And those are … 116kmi numbers.

      I don’t know where you get a $2,800 premium from, in the real world.)

    • 0 avatar
      Xeranar

      At some point you have to recognize the writing on TTAC & the reflected opinions of the B&B have a certain position they’ll maintain regardless of rational positions explained to them. In a practical sense the hybrids are about cost-neutral or slightly beneficial with a resale bonus because most people are going to prefer them at 3-4 years old and as stated previously the way Toyota’s and I imagine Honda’s functions is designed to limit wear and tear on the engine.

      But this is the same crowd that raves about brown diesel station wagons. A small collective is not a market.

  • avatar
    VoGo

    I can’t get my comments in.

    Derek,
    Is there a primer you can share on which words or what it is exactly that prevents all of us from commenting?

    • 0 avatar
      highdesertcat

      VoGo, welcome to the wordpress reality. I have lost several tomes. Suck it up and deal with it. I did.

      • 0 avatar
        VoGo

        Yeah, I know.
        It’s just that what I had to say was so VERY insightful…

        :)

        Trying through the back door:
        Derek,
        No offense, but I take issue with the statement “For many consumers, the extra cost of a hybrid just isn’t worth it.” I think that for any consumer looking for a new car, looking at a hybrid is a smart move.

        If you are looking to buy a new Accord as an example, MSRP on the EX-L is $28,420, while MSRP on the Hybrid EX-L is $32,055, a difference of $3,635.

        Which even if gas stays at $3/gallon means you make up that difference in 110K miles. So the only consumer for whom a hybrid isn’t worthwhile is one who can’t keep a Honda Accord on the road for 110K miles. Which consumer is that, really?

        Inevitably, there is someone who says, “well what if I only plan to keep the car for 3 years, then what?” And the answer is this: The car’s resale value, in a rational market, will reflect the continued gas savings for the life of the car, meaning that you are likely to get about $2,800 additional for the hybrid vs. normal ICE, while you have saved $1,200 while you owned it. So, you paid an extra $3,635 and saved $4,000.

        At which point, someone says, “but the Prius is a crappy car to drive and it threatens my delicate manhood to be seen in one”, or something similar. To which I would refer you to the TTAC reviews of the Accord Hybrid, which refer to it as not only the best Accord for sale, but the best mainstream midsize car.

        Rational people take advantage of market anomalies.

        • 0 avatar
          highdesertcat

          Why don’t you try what I do, when I have time to kill?

          I use two separate browser, simultaneously logged on to ttac, and use my copy of what I lost to resubmit using the other browser.

          It has worked for me, and will work until someone decides to tie the ttac log-in routine to a name/password/IP segregator which will discriminate against multiple log-ons and reject the second and subsequent ones.

          High-traffic sites do this all the time. While I do believe that a lot of people used to visit ttac before the wordpress infirmity, I don’t think the number exceeds capacity.

          Regardless, don’t let it get to you. It’s a take it or leave it conundrum.

          It’s obvious from the missing screen names on ttac, that a number of the B&B didn’t take it, but left it.

          • 0 avatar
            VoGo

            The issue was the word “cons1der1ng” For some reason, if you include a form of the word S-I-D-E in your post, it’s spam.

          • 0 avatar
            Lie2me

            You can just go back a page and recapture what you wrote

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            VoGo, I saw that earlier, elsewhere, about the combination of letters but I’m not convinced that is the reason for rejection, because……………

            When Derek finds my wayward comment in the server trash bin and manually restores it to prominence in the comment section, nothing has changed and the combination of letters your wrote about is not in my comment.

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            “You can just go back a page and recapture what you wrote”

            Not always and it also depends on your browser, like it won’t work in Safari running over iOS8.1, or Opera Stable running on Win8.1, or IE11 running inside Win8.1.

            FireFox lets you do it on just about any OS. I don’t know about Chrome, Android, or Linux-based, or U2U systems like those in use at many Universities.

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            Just tested that letter-combo theory with a reply to Lie2Me and purposely used the word 1n1s1de.

            Yup! My comment was flushed……….

            So what letter-combos caused my other comments to disappear into the great void, since I did not use that letter combination in them?

    • 0 avatar

      VoGo,

      Honestly, I have no idea. Please just be patient and bear with me. As always, you can send me a note at derek at ttac dot com if you need anything.

      -DK

      • 0 avatar
        VoGo

        Thank you, Derek,
        For the kind reply, and for everything you do, 90% of which I’m sure we don’t even realize, let alone acknowledge. You’re doing the best you can with what you’ve got, and the richness and vibrancy of TTAC are the result.

        Crack on!

  • avatar
    stuki

    Based on limited anecdotal observation from the tonier parts of SF and LA, hybrids never had a lick to do with gas prices. Instead, it was the fashionable thing to buy for awhile. The Prius was new, and the plebians who may have cause to care about gas prices, didn’t yet have one. Just like the Escalade and Hummer a decade prior. Now, the fad is Teslas, small Euro-Luxo CUVs (Q5, Macan) and S class sedans that “drive themselves.”

    • 0 avatar
      highdesertcat

      stuki, I agree. Several people I know who own a Prius have other cars as well, like an SUV/CUV or (egads!) an F150.

      It was a fashionable thing to buy!

      My brother in Manhattan, NY, at one time, owned a Leaf until he found out, in real life, it wasn’t a practical vehicle to own (at that time).

      Now some guy in Huntsville, AL, owns it and is fat dumb and happy charging it on the system he uses for the Electric Golf Carts he owns.

    • 0 avatar
      VoGo

      Derek,
      No offense, but I take issue with the statement “For many consumers, the extra cost of a hybrid just isn’t worth it.” For any consumer looking for a new car, considering a hybrid is a smart move.

      If you are looking to buy a new Accord as an example, MSRP on the EX-L is $28,420, while MSRP on the Hybrid EX-L is $32,055, a difference of $3,635.

      Which even if gas stays at $3/gallon means you make up that difference in 110K miles. So the only consumer for whom a hybrid isn’t worthwhile is one who can’t keep a Honda Accord on the road for 110K miles. Which consumer is that, really?

      Inevitably, there is someone who says, “well what if I only plan to keep the car for 3 years, then what?” And the answer is this: The car’s resale value, in a rational market, will reflect the continued gas savings for the life of the car, meaning that you are likely to get about $2,800 additional for the hybrid vs. normal ICE, while you have saved $1,200 while you owned it. So, you paid an extra $3,635 and saved $4,000.

      At which point, someone says, “but the Prius is a crappy car to drive and it threatens my delicate manhood to be seen in one”, or something similar. To which I would refer you to the TTAC reviews of the Accord Hybrid, which refer to it as not only the best Accord for sale, but the best mainstream midsize car.

      Rational people take advantage of market anomalies.

      • 0 avatar
        ttacgreg

        For me, it is threefold.

        I have always valued fuel efficiency.

        There is actual gear head satisfaction aided by the dash display that shows what is going on mechanically and electrically. The different paradigms are cool too, no starter motor, no alternator, no belts, CVT operation, rolling along below 45mph with the gas motor at 0 rpm.

        I would rather spend my money on sophisticated machinery rather than more on oil thus supporting the sketchy corporations and nations who provide that oil.

        • 0 avatar
          Sigivald

          Yeah, who wants to support *Canada*?

          Sketchy maple-scented bastards.

          • 0 avatar
            shaker

            At some point in the near future, are youngsters going to look at the scarred landscapes, fouled water, flattened mountain tops and think “Forgive them, Lord, for they know not what they did”?

        • 0 avatar
          golden2husky

          I agree. I love performance – heck I own a C7. But I commute in a hybrid and frankly, reducing the negatives of fossil fuel use carries a lot of weight for me. These may not mean much to some, which is fine as we are all able to purchase what we like. But getting 35 MPG in mixed driving is meaningful when you spend 20K miles a year schlepping to work. And the hybrid frees up some extra money to feed the Vette. So yeah, I’m proof that there are true enthusiasts that drive hybrids, though mine has a few NISMO suspension parts added in!

    • 0 avatar
      Occam

      They had a lot to do with Car Pool Lane stickers on cars. Once hybrids became so mainstream and common that they were clogging the lanes, they phased out the program for regular hybrids.

  • avatar
    Rday

    The prius is not about just saving gas. It is an extremely reliable vehicle that requires minimum maintenance. My first prius went 90K and still had over half its’ brake pads. It is just such an easy and very spacious vehicle for its’ price and size. My GF’s prius V holds an incredible amount of payload. We put in two 6′ rolls of galvanized fencing and even more. You can’t do that in very many cars its’ size. And it is easy to drive and the seats are very comfortable. I am going to get one when the 15’s come out.
    Until you live with one, you don’t know what you are missing.

    • 0 avatar
      vagvoba

      Also, the Prius has a range of 550-600 miles, which is almost double of others in its category. I had 2 traditional compact cars and a compact SUV before the Prius and now I save about $70 a month in fuel compared to my previous cars even at today’s low gas prices. All this while I didn’t have to make any real compromises with the Prius, other than the purchase price.
      Regarding performance, it’s a myth that the Prius doesn’t have enough power for the highway. I rented cars in Germany twice recently, once a Ford Focus (1 liter gasoline), and once a BMW 3-series (1.6 liter diesel). Both seemed to be more sluggish than my Prius. If the Germans think that those small engines are fine for the autobahn, the Prius will be perfectly fine for the US.

      • 0 avatar
        ttacgreg

        Power?
        I never have to push my Prius C hard to keep up with traffic. It climbs the 5000+ feet of I-70 west of Denver to the Tunnel at 65mph with ease and power to spare.
        All the bitching about lack of power leaves me flat. I remember when only a few cars could get to 60 in less than 10 seconds.

        • 0 avatar
          golden2husky

          I found the Prius to have adequate power considering the mileage it offers. However, my Altima hybrid will clean the Prius’s clock in all measurable categories other than absolute mileage. And I’m willing to give up the extra efficiency for the added fun behind the wheel. What I wish I could get, but can’t, is the HOV sticker. Alas, my Altima does not qualify.

    • 0 avatar
      Occam

      My wife has said she wants one when she eventually lets go of her Versa. The Versa is 7 years old and has never given her a bit of trouble (aside from a washer fluid hose), so it will probably be a few more years.

    • 0 avatar
      Quentin

      It was amazing how much volume the v holds had while reliably returning over 40mpg (not just roadtrips…). The look of the ’15 as per Toyota UK’s website is a nice improvement, too.

  • avatar
    Russycle

    So about 5% of potential hybrid buyers have the memory of a fruit fly? Quelle surprise. I recall when gas prices spiked a few years ago and Geo Metro 3-bangers were fetching premium prices. Some people are bad at long-term thinking or perhaps influenced by emotions when purchasing a car. Film at 11.

    • 0 avatar
      highdesertcat

      Russycle, fear not! The price of gas shall rise again. Has in the past. Will again in the future.

      When it comes to that, the majority in America have Gas Price Amnesia.

      Many oil companies cannot sustain themselves on oil at less than $80/barrel, even with huge government subsidies and IRS accounting allowances.

      Were the Keystone Pipeline to ever be built, that would remove the immediate cost of shipping by rail and amortize the cost of the pipeline over decades, like the Alaska pipeline was.

      Don’t expect the Keystone to be built until Hilary gets elected and takes office.

    • 0 avatar
      highdesertcat

      Hey, hey! Another comment down the wordpress toilet!

      • 0 avatar
        davefromcalgary

        Guys, I have been speaking with DK, they really are trying to iron out some issues that have cropped up of late. We all know, based on some of the thermonuclear flame wars we have seen on these pages, that comments are pretty open in these here parts, when things are working as advertised. No one is being singled out.

        Please exercise patients, I don’t want to see some of the most valued commentary disappear over the ghost in the machine making a Halloween rampage.

        • 0 avatar
          highdesertcat

          davefromcalgary, I appreciate your comment and have no doubt that there are some quickly balding (from pulling out their hair by the roots) people working this intermittent problem.

          Nothing I post is important but I have been accused by some in the past of not replying to their question or comment by “ignoring” them.

        • 0 avatar
          Quentin

          Some patients you should exercise and others you should not. It really depends why they are in the hospital.

    • 0 avatar
      stuki

      Aren’t Geo Metro 3-bangers still fetching premium prices?

  • avatar
    carlisimo

    “Sales of trucks and SUVs, on the other hand, are up by double digits.”

    People are buying dozens more trucks than last year?

    As a fan of low cars, I’m not thrilled with the general switch to crossovers, but it’s happening. And that’s bad news for hatchbacks like the Prius. A lot of people buy them because they’re a good size with plenty of access (great for dogs, apparently). But crossovers expand on that advantage and some of them aren’t any worse to drive than the Prius. So I’m not surprised.

  • avatar
    VoGo

    Derek,
    No offense, but I take issue with the statement “For many consumers, the extra cost of a hybrid just isn’t worth it.” I think that for any consumer looking for a new car, considering a hybrid is a smart move.

    If you are looking to buy a new Accord as an example, MSRP on the EX-L is $28,420, while MSRP on the Hybrid EX-L is $32,055, a difference of $3,635.

    Which even if gas stays at $3/gallon means you make up that difference in 110K miles. So the only consumer for whom a hybrid isn’t worthwhile is one who can’t keep a Honda Accord on the road for 110K miles. Which consumer is that, really?

    Inevitably, there is someone who says, “well what if I only plan to keep the car for 3 years, then what?” And the answer is this: The car’s resale value, in a rational market, will reflect the continued gas savings for the life of the car, meaning that you are likely to get about $2,800 additional for the hybrid vs. normal ICE, while you have saved $1,200 while you owned it. So, you paid an extra $3,635 and saved $4 grand.

    At which point, someone says, “but the Prius is a crappy car to drive and it threatens my delicate manhood to be seen in one”, or something similar. To which I would refer you to the TTAC reviews of the Accord Hybrid, which refer to it as not only the best Accord for sale, but the best mainstream midsize car.

    Rational people take advantage of market anomalies.

  • avatar
    Big Al from Oz

    The dip in global fuel prices will not remain. If many aren’t aware the Saudi’s are trying to maintain their market share globally.

    The comment regarding the increase in cars vs trucks vs SUVs/CUVs is slightly inaccurate. Pickup sales haven’t increased nowhere near as much as SUVs/CUVs.

    The Prius. Well, I do think they wouldn’t of sold in the numbers they have without substantial handouts and subsidies. Toyota and the other Hybrid/EV manufacturers would have given up on these with out the massive assistance given. Even CNG fall into this basket of artificially generated demand.

    • 0 avatar
      Sigivald

      “If many aren’t aware the Saudi’s are trying to maintain their market share globally.”

      Wouldn’t that require that they pump *more* crude, thus helping keep prices *down*?

      And doesn’t that implode OPEC, whose entire point is to constrain member output?

      (OPEC is dead anyway, of course, because the rest of the world won’t play along.)

      • 0 avatar
        Lorenzo

        The Saudis are looking after number one, trying to keep their market share and hang the price. It’s the other OPEC countries that need higher prices, and the Saudis will no longer sacrifice their market share to Iraq to keep the organization together. OPEC is truly dead, and it’s every nationalized petroleum producer for himself.

  • avatar
    Big Al from Oz

    The comment regarding the increase in cars vs trucks vs SUVs, CUVs is slightly inaccurate. Pickup sales haven’t increased nowhere near as much as SUVs, CUVs.

    The Prius. Well, I do think they wouldn’t of sold in the numbers they have without substantial handouts and subsidies. Toyota and the other Hybrid/EV manufacturers would have given up on these with out the massive assistance given. Even CNG fall into this basket of artificially generated demand.

  • avatar
    Rental Man

    I’m pretty much a Honda guy. Even Honda dealers will admit their Hybrid offers like the CR-Z, Insight and even the Civic could not hold a candle as a complete vehicle to a Standard Prius. (Not the compromised C) The New Accord Hybrid is probably the top Hybrid vehicle for the $ tied with the Fusion. Honda was surprised the 2015 Toyota Camry Hybrid cheapened out on the Ni-Ion battery pack going with the less MPG older heavier Ni-Metal. Toyota did the same cheapskate move earlier with the Prius V offered in Europe with the smaller battery pack that even allows room for a tiny 3rd row (5+2)

    • 0 avatar
      Rental Man

      The NY EZ Pass allows a cheaper toll rate for Hudson Bridges & tunnels to a select group of Hybrids and electric cars. (copy link below) That is the only faster way to break even and save money on a Hybrid that is not a cab. With no less then $3000 difference + Tax + finance charges on a comparable gas vehicles I see little savings since the regular cars improved so much.

      http://www.thruway.ny.gov/ezpass/greentag.html

    • 0 avatar
      jimmyy

      Totally disagree. The Honda Accord hybrid is massively expensive. And, the Fusion Hybrid is not a great vehicle while also much more expensive than the Camry Hybrid. The Camry Hybrid is clearly the best for the money. Toyota engineers indicate their battery choice is superior for efficiency reasons.

  • avatar
    Duaney

    I ruled out the Prius immediately because of the poor visibility.

    • 0 avatar
      petezeiss

      This!

      One of the most wretched, claustrophobic driving experiences I’ve ever had was in a nephew’s Prius. FAT A-pillars, mirror in face, tall dash… wretched! And that idiot return-to-home-position gear selector!

      Otherwise, they seem like fantastic cars. For someone else.

  • avatar
    indi500fan

    I’m impressed with the petroleum price downtrend. It used to be that mideast political disruptions caused big upswings. Now we have ISIS running wild and I buy gas for $2.65/gal and it’s trending lower.

    2000 mile road trip last week and the diesel pusher motorhomes are storming the interstates.

    Ford needs to dust off the tooling for the Excursion / V10 gas.

    • 0 avatar
      Pch101

      You can thank the transition away from quantitative easing. Tapering off of QE means a stronger dollar, which means traders start getting out of pricey long oil positions as they prepare for the ride down.

      The price of oil and the value of the commodity currencies (Canadian and Aussie dollars) move roughly in parallel. That isn’t a coincidence, and it probably signals that oil prices have further to fall.

      (You can ignore the fracking chatter; that doesn’t really have anything to do with it. There has been no spike in global oil supplies as a result.)

      • 0 avatar
        jimmyy

        That is not the story here. Oil prices are collapsing because of a potential European economic collapse. This is not a QE story.

        • 0 avatar
          highdesertcat

          “because of a potential European economic collapse. ”

          There’ll be NO collapse! The American government is ready, willing and able to bail out Europe with interest-free loans, loan forgiveness, and unlimited credit the American taxpayers will pay for.

          In case any of you forgot, America bailed out the world after WWII with 50 years loans, loan forgiveness, and what-not, all at American taxpayer expense.

          It’s good to be King!

        • 0 avatar
          stuki

          European collapse will also work largely via the stronger dollar pathway. Europe is just as beholden to banksters as the US. Hence, will debase the Euro to nothing or less, before forcing a single well connected Citiot into default on a 5 Euro loan.

        • 0 avatar
          Pch101

          I actually agree that there is some Euro recession and China slowdown story included here.

          But it is no secret that QE weakens the dollar and that oil prices are partly a measure of dollar weakness.

          With unemployment below 6%, the taper will continue. An aggressive long position in oil would be foolish when the Fed policy is obvious under these circumstances.

        • 0 avatar
          VoGo

          Guess again, boys.

          Oil prices are down because demand is steady, while supply is increasing from 2 sources: North American fracking and Libya.

          • 0 avatar
            Pch101

            Er, no.

            Here’s an exercise for you: Go to the EIA website, get the data on total world oil production, and plot it as a graph.

            Oil supplies have been increasing at a slow and steady level, year after year after year. There is no supply spike. None.

            The pundits generally don’t know what they’re talking about. You need to look at the actual numbers and analyze them. You’ve been duped by guys who probably never even looked at the actual numbers.

          • 0 avatar
            VoGo

            PCH,
            I should have been more precise: prices move on EXPECTATIONS of supply and demand. Historical analysis is not terribly illuminating.

            So the market is expecting relatively flat demand, with continued improvements in supply, mostly driven by Libya and No. America.

            The impacts of QE and its tapering have been overblown by a right wing press that sees deficit reduction as endangering income disparities. There has been no modern correlation between QE and inflation indexes.

          • 0 avatar
            Pch101

            This is the sort of thing that happens when people cherry pick their numbers.

            You’re focusing on US supply increases, while ignoring the fact that there are supply decreases elsewhere, such as in Europe and Venezuela.

            Much of the price of oil is determined by what traders are willing to pay for it. The last time that we had genuine supply constraints in a meaningful way was back in the 70s, when OPEC put the squeeze on the US.

            With recession worries and the end of QE, betting on higher oil prices is a dangerous game. Accordingly, prices are down; nobody wants to get stuck in an overpriced trade if they can avoid it.

  • avatar
    LeMansteve

    1. Most consumers don’t know how or just can’t be bothered to do the simple math that says you have to drive over 100k miles to recoup the extra cost of the hybrid model. They are buying image and the high MPG number on the Monroney sticker. It’s easier to sell image and besides, the manufacturers don’t want you to do the math anyway. They want you to buy the $27k Prius instead of the $20k Corolla.

    2. For those consumers actually calculating cost-breakeven points, when compared to equivalent ICE-only models, there never was and still isn’t a cost justification for hybrids. High fuel efficiency != low cost of ownership.

    3. As the NPR article states, the Prius is THE barometer for hybrid sales overall. The current Prius model is at the end of its life cycle. Nearly all other vehicles see a decline in sales as a given model gets stale. Sales will likely pick up when the redesigned model is introduced.

  • avatar
    kvndoom

    I worry less about gas price now that we have no car payment. I still get 21 MPG combined with the Altima, only 4 less than I was getting with the Kia. For a 100HP gain, that’s a pretty fair tradeoff. :)

  • avatar
    jose carlos

    Thank goodness we (in Portugal, though I am sure others will be in tune) have a government that shows this everlasting caring for its people: they just put a new “green” tax on gas just to cure our predicted oil price amnesia. Socialism at work providing preventive medicine.

  • avatar
    redav

    Derek correctly identifies the improved efficiency of traditional cars as damping hybrid sales. I see that as a bigger factor than image/status.

    As for gas prices & memory, I recall an article from c 2008 which claimed that it was not gas prices that mattered, but their trend. When price is in the process of rising is when people fret and emphasize efficiency because of the uncertainty of when (if) it will stop. But once the price stabilizes or falls, then they are confident they can budget accordingly to afford it.

    This explanation makes the most sense any I’ve yet heard.

  • avatar
    Paddan

    It is hideously ugly and relatively boring to drive. Next.

    • 0 avatar
      Lorenzo

      My neighbor, whose parking space is next to mine, has one. In over a year, she has never been able to park it parallel to the parking space lines. But that might not be the car.

  • avatar
    jimmyy

    I recently traded a 12 Camry Hybrid that I loved. I am getting ready to purchase a 15 Camry Hybrid … but, not available in my area yet.

    Over the tens of thousands of miles I put on the 12 Camry Hybrid, never a single problem. And, the resale was spectacular … every dealer I went to wanted it for their used car lot. It averaged just over 40MPG during it’s life with me. When you count the resale and the mileage, that vehicle was far cheaper to own than anything else I know of, including the gas Camry.

    I had a 13 or 14 Fusion Hybrid as a rental for a weekend during a recent trip to Canada, and the Camry Hybrid is superior. The Camry MPG was higher, and it was much more powerful. The Camry cabin is much larger. The only advantage the Fusion had was higher speed corners. However, that handling advantage was offset by a much rougher ride. And, I wonder if the Camry Hybrid SE ( mine was an LE ) would match the Fusion in the corner.

    Hard to imagine someone making the case not to purchase the Camry Hybrid. However, my experience with the Fusion Hybrid leaves much to be desired.

    • 0 avatar
      Acd

      The last Camry I rented gave me the impression that other than the thicker rimed steering wheel it was just a larger incarnation of a 1988 Corolla with every bit as much road noise and cheap interior plastics. The thought of keeping it the whole week was depressing enough; I can’t imagine actually having to own one.

      It took about three years for my Acura TL to bore me to tears; a Camry can do that in three days.

  • avatar

    I drive 30k/yr, from NYC crawl to upstate open roads. I get 38 mpg all in at 80 mph, driving it like I stole it. OK, I have to keep track of the right fuel nozzle, and there is a tiny amount of clatter at stoplights in the morning, but my diesel does this all well.

    Oh, and it comes in a Golf body, with the Sportline suspension (at least in the US). The next comment will say something about a grenading fuel pump, but I’m as at risk as the next guy…and at 65k so far, I’ve had no failures of any type. I’m not against the hybrid idea, but if you do big miles on open roads, diesel wins. If you go urban only, electric wins…

  • avatar
    swester

    It might sound sillt, but with a hybrid, I also appreciate not having to fill up as frequently. I went from having to fill up once a week in an almost exclusively urban commute (getting around 14 mpg) to having to barely do it once a month (at 44 MPG).

    It might seem inconsequential, but time spent at the pump is always time wasted. And in the course of a year, I’ll gladly take those ~3 hours back!

    Plus, as others have noted, the price premium on a hybrid also carries a resale premium (or, for a lease, a residual premium), so the discrepancy is somewhat moot unless you happen to be carrying a high interest rate on a loan or something to that effect.

  • avatar
    highdesertcat

    Since my wife started working from home on Oct 01, her commute is down to zero. I normally spend ~$100 a week on gas, but haven’t filled any of our vehicles up since Oct 1.

    I’m rich! I’m rich!

    And I have no place to go.

    • 0 avatar
      raincoaster

      I know how you feel. My commute is zero (well, float plane every 40 days) and I enjoy not buying gas. It does, however, make me feel like my Honda fit’s efficiency is wasted. I could have something more… interesting for all that i drive it.

      • 0 avatar
        Lorenzo

        I’m in the same situation, and I thought of searching for a cherry, late 1960s full sized car, a ’68 Eldorado in particular. I found that 1. they don’t exist except at exorbitant prices, and 2. somebody downsized all the parking spaces.

  • avatar
    oldowl

    We’ve had a Prius since 2009 (2010 model year). It has been dead reliable. It passed the Cosco Test (enough rear room to carry all the stuff you need, all the stuff you don’t need, plus epidemic quantities of TP).

    That said, it is not fun to drive, though not bad, is a squeeze to get into, boosts no power seats, and mounts dim goofy gauges an arm’s reach from the wheel.

    Its replacement? Since I missed the midlife crisis sports car, I thinking a new Jeep Renegade. I’m too old to be a wannabe, but I’ve still got time for a what-the-hell choice.

  • avatar
    reclusive_in_nature

    I don’t think it’s so much the drop in gas prices as it is people have learned to budget to afford their choice in vehicles. Once the shock of $3+ fuel wore off, people realized they could still have the larger, more powerful vehicles they REALLY want if they adjusted their budgets.

    Face it, the American masses don’t want small or slow cars. Some of you need to learn to deal with this and stop trying to tax and legislate those tastes away.

  • avatar
    Wheatridger

    Unless a new car is sold with a gas futures contract guaranteeing gas at $3/gallon for the life of the loan, I’d give little consideration to the current retail price of fuel. That would be like throwing away all your winter clothes because it was hot last summer.

  • avatar
    SCE to AUX

    I just bought a leftover 13 Optima Hybrid in May for $20k. It is saving me about $80/month in gas, plus it’s safer, bigger, faster, and more reliable than the 01 Elantra it replaced.

    Whatever the price of gas, I don’t mind getting 34-45 mpg in a 199-HP car.

    And when it comes to my Leaf, I don’t care what the price of gas is.

  • avatar
    gachapingymkhana

    If you have enough money to buy a brand new car, then you probably also have enough money to buy lots of gas for it. So I think the natural order of things is for cars to be thirsty. With that said, only about a third of car buyers purchase new vehicles. For the two thirds who buy used, fuel efficiency might be a more crucial factor. But used car shoppers don’t have the privilege of influencing what gets manufactured just by opening their wallets.

    Expensive gas can only boost sales of hybrids to the extent that it makes them attractive to the new-car-buying top 33%, who are fairly impervious to pain at the pump anyway (notwithstanding the quote at the top of the article). So I think the pending CAFE laws will prove better suited than the oft-proposed gas tax to the goal of raising the Prius to its deserved position of all-dominating Car Of The People.

  • avatar
    furiouschads

    Test drove a c-max plugin hybrid in mid-Sept. Loved it., would be a great replacement for our tan 96 sable wagon. Great transaction cost after Ford, Fed, MD rebates and credits. We just put in solar panels. Result: just bought a ’91 Lincoln Mark VII in appliance white. Did I mention that I am between 55 and 60 years old?

  • avatar
    C. Alan

    If you are a long distance commuter, now is the time to replace your car. Prices hybrids are pretty good right now, and we all know gas prices will go up again.

  • avatar
    Slow_Joe_Crow

    I continue to view hybrids as a specific use case for lots of stop and go driving where the regenerative braking and rapid acceleration from the electric motor pay off. For long distance highway use a high efficiency ICE (like Skyactiv or diesel) is abetter bet while short haul use is better served by a pure electric vehicle.
    A plug in hybrid with good electric range like the Volt or a range extended electric like the BMW i3 makes more sense than a straight hybrid or short range plugin like the Prius variants if you need both local electric use and long distance capability. Otherwise two cars is a better option since you get an optimum city car and an optimum trip car.
    I know several people who live in the suburbs and have a Nissan Leaf or Think City as a local use car with a gas engine car for long trips.

  • avatar
    djoelt1

    People in our income bracket are buying BMW 5 Series but we happily bought a Prius C because of its high fuel economy and compact size. It’s like a little go-kart. And it cost $18,000. It replaced a previous Prius C that was totaled in an accident after two years of ownership. With the insurance settlement we actually came out $1000 ahead on the replacement – the car held its value that well.

    I like driving high performance cars – I have an M3 Lightweight for track duty – but I also like seeing how high MPG I can get in the Prius. My PR for the work commute (30 miles, normally I take the train) is 65 mpg. It’s a high performance machine that is fun to drive.

  • avatar
    Mandalorian

    I don’t really have any experience with hybrids, but when I bought my Q7 I chose the gas engine over the popular diesel.

    Even though it was more efficent, the margins simply weren’t big enough to justify a price premium for the engine and fuel.

    Likewise, I have no knowledge of diesel engines and that simply was not a world I wanted to enter.

  • avatar
    superchan7

    Another problem is that the Prius has saturated both its intended and unintended markets. Everyone that wanted one now has one, and the cars haven’t died yet.

    For a mostly highway commute, a cheaper Corolla is more economical to own for many people. For dense cities, smaller cars are easier to park.

    But for many suburban families, the Prius is a great modestly-sized family car that provides surprising cargo room and astoundingly low running costs.

    This is assuming an educated buyer with a keen mind on the history of fuel prices and some capacity for critical thinking. Then we have the mindless buyers who have no long-term memory and stretch their budgets for new shiny things, the bigger the better. The Prius is a temporary penalty box “until gas prices come back down.” Those are the people Krafcik speaks of, but they don’t represent the entire market.

    Krafcik’s company (Hyundai) doesn’t even make a competitor to the Prius. The Sonata is way too big for urban buyers. Its appeal is limited, and even then its fuel economy isn’t a selling point relative to its competition (Camcord hybrids).

  • avatar
    wstarvingteacher

    One daughter in Dallas has an old Prius (2010?) that has been remarkable. She is a realtor and it works very well for her. Starting battery her only repair other than tires and oil. Second daughter liked that so well that she now has a 2014 for mixed driving around Florida. I thought of neither as soul killing. They represent the low repair and high gas economy mix that many people will pay a premium for.

    Gearheads have a propensity for knowing what others need to drive and I can see some of the reasons why. However, I have a 57 chevy that can consume as much repair money as I care to spend. I drive a Nissan Cube and risk being thought of as driving a soulless appliance. I can see myself driving a Prius when it cashes in as I understand the supply of new cubes dries up in 2015. Since repairs on cars became as undecipherable and unsustainable as they are, I have really come to treasure dependability. Common repairs now approach the dollar level that engine and transmission changes used to command. I have come to feel that life is too short to support my local mechanic at the level he desires.

  • avatar
    jimbob457

    “I think it’s fairly interesting from a cultural memory standpoint, that American car buyers, for the most part, don’t seem to have memory of gas prices two, three or six months ago,”

    – TrueCar President John Krafcik speaking to NPR about slumping hybrid sales.

    Well, for a number of years it looks like the Prius is destined to become a bit of a cultural memory itself, at least in North America. Crude oil has fallen from $100 USD per barrel to $80 in just a few weeks. Those in the know think it may fall a bit further and settle in the $60 to $90 range for quite a few years (absent some major political supply interruption).

    Fracking is the major cause. Long term, it can produce lots of oil for $60-$70 per bbl, and not just at certain places in the US (see the recent USGS survey on the subject). Fracking does even better at producing cheap natural gas.

    The era of expensive oil and gas looks to be over for a few decades for most of the world. It was ever thus. The petroleum industry has seemingly always been on a 25 to 30 year cycle.

  • avatar
    HotPotato

    Just rented a brand-new Prius with less than 5000 miles for two 9-hour drives and some city schlepping in between. I was surprised.

    The new Gen 3 looks nearly identical to the old Gen 2, but it’s a much better car–quieter, smoother than the Gen 1 and Gen 2 cars I have driven. An entirely acceptable drive, yet it still maintains the Prius virtues of being big inside but small outside, and having amazing fuel economy.

    I expected it to be great in the city but miserable on the highway, since city driving is the ideal hybrid use case. It was the opposite!

    On the highway it was quietish and comfortable, with a plush ride and little sensitivity to crosswinds. You don’t want to attack curves at high speed with that video-game steering, and the small fuel tank erases some of the high-MPG convenience, but in general this is a fine highway commuter.

    But in the city there was a weird throttle lag from a stop, EVERY time, so to get it moving you had to use way more throttle than you’d like. As soon as the drivetrain awoke from its torpor you’d have to back way off, and the transmission would do its best impression of an old 4-speed automatic lurching into top gear and leaving you with too much speed and too little engine braking.

    Also unwelcome was the needlessly persistent control weirdness. Simply leaving a parking lot is needlessly complex, between the weird joystick shifter, the pushbutton parking brake, the foot operated parking brake, and the interior beeping in Reverse.

    Upon my return I hopped into a Ford C-Max Hybrid, and enjoyed double the horsepower, linear throttle response, reassuring steering, more room, and controls that work like any other car’s…and 10 fewer MPG. There is no free lunch.

Read all comments

Back to TopLeave a Reply

You must be logged in to post a comment.

Recent Comments

  • sayahh: Thanks for this. This is the reason why some (or maybe even most) Supra fans don’t think the...
  • e46 Touring: I have a 10th gen Si. I like how it looks, fake vents and all. When I walk up to it, I think its looks...
  • dal20402: Don’t know where they’re getting the idea that the hybrid system is new. It’s essentially...
  • dal20402: For a vehicle like this, designed to carry light loads at low speeds in crowded places, I’ll take the...
  • EBFlex: There is no right spec of the Escape pickup. Much like Ford’s awful EVs, there are way too many...

New Car Research

Get a Free Dealer Quote

Who We Are

  • Adam Tonge
  • Bozi Tatarevic
  • Corey Lewis
  • Mark Baruth
  • Ronnie Schreiber