By on September 5, 2013


Automaker Aug. 2013 Aug. 2012 Pct. chng. 8 month
8 month
Pct. chng.
    BMW division 24,523 16,835 46% 188,997 164,636 15%
    Mini 6,023 5,718 5% 44,329 43,632 2%
    Rolls-Royce 84 79 6% 672 632 6%
BMW Group 30,630 22,632 35% 233,998 208,900 12%
    Chrysler Division 28,678 28,070 2% 212,495 216,616 –2%
    Dodge 52,858 47,348 12% 413,258 344,556 20%
    Dodge/Ram 86,445 73,413 18% 653,985 537,502 22%
    Fiat 4,190 4,150 1% 29,585 28,566 4%
    Jeep 46,239 42,839 8% 317,921 325,945 –3%
    Ram 33,587 26,065 29% 240,727 192,946 25%
Chrysler Group 165,552 148,472 12% 1,213,986 1,108,629 10%
    Maybach 4 –100% 32 –100%
    Mercedes-Benz 26,151 22,689 15% 203,147 182,087 12%
    Smart USA 993 753 32% 6,312 6,281 1%
Daimler AG 27,144 23,446 16% 209,459 188,400 11%
    Ford division 212,212 188,608 13% 1,649,821 1,453,536 14%
    Lincoln 8,192 8,141 1% 53,399 57,078 –6%
Ford Motor Co. 220,404 196,749 12% 1,703,220 1,510,614 13%
    Buick 24,650 18,000 37% 141,880 122,589 16%
    Cadillac 20,255 14,704 38% 119,586 90,933 32%
    Chevrolet 187,740 169,978 10% 1,365,544 1,270,582 8%
    GMC 43,202 37,838 14% 303,254 273,366 11%
General Motors 275,847 240,520 15% 1,930,264 1,757,470 10%
    Acura 17,051 15,646 9% 109,182 101,407 8%
    Honda Division 149,381 115,675 29% 944,267 847,840 11%
Honda (American) 166,432 131,321 27% 1,053,449 949,247 11%
    Hyundai division 66,101 61,099 8% 493,116 479,789 3%
    Kia 52,025 50,028 4% 378,380 386,809 –2%
Hyundai Group 118,126 111,127 6% 871,496 866,598 1%
    Jaguar 1,723 1,029 67% 11,134 8,546 30%
    Land Rover 4,938 3,727 33% 31,972 28,038 14%
Jaguar Land Rover 6,661 4,756 40% 43,106 36,584 18%
Maserati 326 219 49% 1,862 1,715 9%
Mazda 28,106 22,232 26% 198,026 185,346 7%
Mitsubishi 5,281 4,249 24% 40,980 41,316 –1%
    Infiniti 11,884 11,155 7% 71,879 77,151 –7%
    Nissan Division 108,614 87,360 24% 782,369 697,426 12%
Nissan 120,498 98,515 22% 854,248 774,577 10%
Subaru 41,061 28,293 45% 281,652 217,780 29%
Suzuki* 1,968 –100% 5,946 17,228 –66%
    Lexus 29,792 24,237 23% 171,238 150,604 14%
    Scion 7,698 7,722 0% 48,959 49,747 –2%
    Toyota division 194,047 156,561 24% 1,313,525 1,199,163 10%
    Toyota/Scion 201,745 164,283 23% 1,362,484 1,248,910 9%
Toyota 231,537 188,520 23% 1,533,722 1,399,514 10%
    Audi 14,005 11,527 22% 101,346 88,392 15%
    Bentley 198 156 27% 1,565 1,405 11%
    Lamborghini* 46 43 7% 368 344 7%
    Porsche 3,327 3,026 10% 28,456 22,279 28%
    VW division 40,342 41,011 –2% 282,913 286,750 –1%
Volkswagen 57,918 55,763 4% 414,648 399,170 4%
Volvo Cars NA 5,518 6,319 –13% 44,005 46,649 –6%
Other** 253 246 3% 2,024 1,963 3%
TOTAL 1,501,294 1,285,347 17% 10,636,091 9,711,700 10%


Riding on strong pickup truck and sedan sales, Chrysler Group and Ford Motor Co. both posted 12% overall sales increases from last August. It was Chrysler’s 41st straight year to year monthly increase. A number of manufacturers’ sales were constrained by tight inventory of models in high demand.

At Ford car and truck sales increased 18%, while crossover sales went down slightly. Small car sales at Ford were up 30% and F series pickups up 22%, while Lincoln sales inched up 1%. Ford reported that retail sales were up 20%, with trucks leading the way at +30%, utility vehicles up 16% and cars up 15%. It said that due to demand it would increase North American output 7% in the 4th quarter of this year to 785,000 cars and light trucks.

At Chrysler, the Ram brand’s sales were up 29% percent, Dodge was up 12% and Jeep was up 8%. Individually, Ram pickups were up 31% and car sales were up 11%. The company said that Dodge Charger and Dart sales were strong and the Fiat brand had its best month since returning to the United States, maybe its best month in the U.S. ever, at nearly 4.200 unites. “Last month we achieved our strongest retail sales in the past 60 months,” Reid Bigland, head of U.S. sales for Chrysler Group, said in a statement. “All aspects of our business continue to improve.” TrueCar estimated that the average transaction price of Chrysler Group vehicles sold last month was a record $30,317, a result of strong pickup and Jeep sales.

Other manufacturers will release August sales data later today. Analysts expect that August sales will have risen 14 percent from 2012 to 1.47 million units, according to a Bloomberg survey. The seasonally adjusted annual sales rate is forecast at 15.8 million units, up from 14.5 million last year. Analysts attribute strong U.S. light-vehicle sales to a variety of factors including pent-up demand, an aging fleet, attractive finance and leasing offers, a slowly improving economy with rising housing and construction activity and modest employment growth.

TrueCar estimated the average transaction price of a new light-vehicle sold in August was $31,252, a record. Sales could have been higher but some models were in short supply during the traditional August end-of-model-year clearance sales. A survey conducted by RBC Capital Markets showed that 19% of dealers said they didn’t have sufficient inventory in August compared to 9% in July and 4% in June. Models whose sales have been limited by supply included the Ford Fusion and Explorer, Chevrolet Impala, Honda Odyssey and CR-V, Range Rover, Dodge Charger, and Jeep Wrangler, and Ford Explorer, with some regions experiencing particularly tight supply. On a brand basis, Subaru, Land Rover, Audi, Hyundai, Lexus, Kia, and BMW had the shortest supply of cars on hand while Lincoln, Fiat, Cadillac, Buick and Ram had the biggest supply. Subaru, constrained as it was by inventory issues is expected to have its best ever August sales in the U.S.

Honda, Toyota, Nissan set pace as August volume surges 17%

U.S. car and light truck sales were up 17% in August, pushing the seasonally adjusted annual sales rate to 16.1 million units, the best the industry as a group has done since the end of 2007. The fact that August included most of the Labor Day weekend was said by analysts to be a factor along with  pent-up demand, an aging fleet, attractive finance and leasing offers, a slowly improving economy with rising housing and construction activity and modest employment growth. Pickup trucks and sedans did particularly well, with strong retail sales.. While the domestic automakers all had gains, Japanese brands led the statistical race with Honda up 27%, Toyota up 23% and Nissan up 22%. For the first time Subaru deliveries in the U.S. surpassed 40,000 units, up 45% from August of 2012. General Motors’ sales were up 15% while both Ford and the Chrysler Group were each up 12%.

At GM, retail sales were up 22% while fleet deliveries were down 8%. Cadillac led GM brands, going up 38%, doing just better than Buick at +37%. GMC deliveries were up 14% from last year and Chevy was up 10%.

At Toyota, Lexus sales were up 23% while Toyota’s main brand was up 24%. Camry sales, buoyed by incentives, were up 22% to almost 45,000 units, and the Prius was up 30% to an August record of 27,358.

Honda set an August sales record of 166,432, with the CR-V, Accord and Civic each selling more than 34,000 units in the month.

Nissan also set an August record at 120,498 deliveries, on an increase of 24% at their core brand and +7% at Infiniti.

Sales were almost universally up across the industry. BMW was up 46%, Mazda up 26%, Mitsubishi up 24%, Audi up 22%, Mercedes-Benz up 15% and Kia, whose supply has been constrained by labor issues in Korea, was still up 4%. Hyundai, which has experienced similar supply issues, was up 8% to 66,101 units.Volkswagen brand sales were down 2% and Volvo slipped 13%.

News continues to be good at JLR, up 40% to 6,661, with Jaguar deliveries up a dramatic 67% following the May launch of the F-Type sports car and Land Rover posting it’s best retail monthly sales ever in the United States at 4,938 units, up 32% from 2012.

In terms of market share, Ford and Honda were gainers, Hyundai-Kia and VW were losers, while GM, Toyota, Chrysler and Nissan held their ground.

Source: Automotive News Data Center

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71 Comments on “Sales Up In August, SAAR Exceeds 16 Million For First Time Since ’07...”

  • avatar

    Impressive numbers for August. I imagine a lot of the sales were clearance 2013 models based on all of the annoying ads I’ve seen in the past month. Any idea how many of the buyers were people that wouldn’t have qualified for a loan until recently? I’m wondering how many of those sales would be sub-prime or long-term (72 month or more) loans. Or maybe people are actually putting down large down payments and plan to pay them off in a reasonable time frame? Would love to know the details of some of those sales but doubt that’s readily available aside from talking to some dealership employees.

  • avatar

    What’s up with Subaru? Granted their styling has improved, and they’re one of the few manufacturers still offering wagons, but those numbers are impressive.

    • 0 avatar

      I dont understand the seemingly constant/rapid uphill climb of subaru. None of their cars are particularly exciting IMO (Save for the relatively low volume BRZ and WRX). None of their cars are value leaders, fuel efficiency kings. I think when you have relatively low volume it becomes a bit easier to eek out some big gains. Still, my only conclusion on Subaru sales gains is a huge increse in the lesbian population and/or yuppies wanting to display an outdoor lifestyle as a billboard via Subaru ownership (a strong segment for subaru intenders IMO) are coming out of the woodwork.

      I am hoping that the market leaving VW out of party means consumers are wising up to the dumbed down versions of VW cars offered to the US. I guess there are only so many people looking to buy sub-par offerings at a premium price just so they can say they own a German brand.

      • 0 avatar

        Toyota is the key to Subaru’s success. They bought a nice sized chunk of the company and started helping Subaru with the R&D. Subaru is now putting out higher quality cars and Toyota is making a big profit off of them.

      • 0 avatar

        Subaru benefits from two things in my view. First, the ongoing flight to AWD. Toyota is running ads here in metro Boston touting their high number of AWD offerings, saw one this morning. It’s increasingly clear with our recent high snowfall winters that AWD is becoming standard up here. It helps the Fusion do well against the Accord, Camry and Koreans as well. Second, the build quality and reliability really leads the pack among the non luxury brands. They are pretty darned solid vehicles. They updated the engines and transmissions and closed the MPG gap as well (though they will always lag).

        My wife and I have problems with the ergonomics of Subaru cars, which caused us to sell our Tribeca a few years back. But it was an impressively built and trouble free car. If they worked on the interior ergonomics and replaced some hard touch plastics, they’d sell even more cars.

      • 0 avatar

        I think Subaru’s performance has a lot to do with the redesigned Forester. It’s the value leader and fuel efficiency king for its segment. In the all important Consumer Reports rankings, the Forester absolutely stomped the second place Ford Escape Titanium by 9 points (on a scale of 100). It’s also one of the few SUVs to get a ‘good’ score in the IIHS small overlap test. In other words, it’s not lesbians and wannabe tree-huggers driving sales, it’s former Camry buyers.

        What surprises me is that I’m pretty sure the Outback outsells the Forester. Who’s buying those?

        • 0 avatar

          My neighbor recently bought an Outback and one of my sisters bought a Forester. The Outback definitely looks a little more SUV like. That might be what draws people. Personally, if I wanted to buy a Subaru I would get the Outback – made in Indiana. The Foresters are all made in Japan. I don’t really understand the AWD craze, because traction and stability control on a modern 2WD vehicle keeps it stable and works just fine in the snow. I doubt many of these AWD cars are actually going off road. The AWD costs more upfront and seems to eat into your gas mileage.

        • 0 avatar

          I’ve just compared the Outback and Forester in terms of space and utility (at, which has a great wealth of data) and there’s not that much difference; the Outback is a little longer and has a little more cargo room, but the moonroof on the nicer versions is tiny relative to the Forester’s. If the Outback is selling better, as it apparently is, perhaps it’s a question of dealer incentives for the Indiana-produced cars, or perhaps there are more buyers interested in the six-cylinder Outback than in the turbo Forester.

          In any case, it seems obvious to me that a great many people (in the northeast, especially) who would have been Saab or Volvo buyers in the 1970s through 1990s are Subaru buyers today.

          (Impreza sales are a big factor too. July sales figures, also from, were 5,614 Imprezas – up 23% over July 2012 – PLUS 4,636 Crosstrek sales. That’s 10,250 Imprezas and Crosstreks in July 2013 versus 4,564 Imprezas in July 2012, before the Crosstrek variant was introduced. Subaru of America offered the Impreza “Outback Sport” for more than 15 years before getting the formula right and changing the name, but obviously they’ve finally learned.)

          • 0 avatar

            I was a ‘pioneer’ in my inner city, now thoroughly gentrified neighborhood. There are now lots of professionals in their 30s having children. I’m seeing a lot of VW Jettas, Mazda 3s, and Honda Fits being replaced with Outbacks shortly after the wives buy maternity clothes.

      • 0 avatar

        Perception vs reality. Subaru is the new Volvo.

        Subaru = safe, reliable, and just a touch of quirky street cred because its a niche brand


  • avatar

    Your suspicions are probably correct, market appears to be driven by, well, I think we’ve seen this show before:

    and leases:

    btw, the Fusion got creamed in August.

    • 0 avatar

      True the Fusion was beaten, even creamed, by the Camry but the Tundra was crushed by the F-150 (11K vs 71K). I am thinking those F-150 sales are more profitable (and more numerous) than the Camry sales.
      It is easy to cherry pick data to make a point!

      • 0 avatar

        Like you I’m hoping for new competition in the pickup area. I have noticed the new RAM is now considered by more reviewers to be superior to the F-150.

        But the F-150 seems to be the Camry of trucks, the default position despite better alternatives. The new Tundra is a start, but it comes in too few flavors to satisfy the many tastes. If Toyota really wants to be a player it has got to really get into the game, but since it is already outselling Ford in the US it may be pulling its punches in a segment that has essentially kept Ford in business.

        With the ripe profit margins in the pickup market economics argues for more competition – imagine if the pickup market became as diverse and competitive as the midsize sedan market. That would be a boon to consumers. Oligopolies are so last century.

        • 0 avatar

          The Ecoboost is one fast motor, and I guess there’s the Raptor to differentiate it, but other than that there is absolutely nothing special about the F150. It’s certainly not leagues better than the Tundra, Silverado, and Ram.

          • 0 avatar

            Sure, but even in the F-150 the Ecoboost tech seems to deliver poorer economy and performance compared to rivals’ bigger engines.*

            *In the real world tests.

        • 0 avatar

          I completely agree the F-150 is the Camry of trucks. As you seem to imply the Camry is not superior to a lot of its midsize competition.

          As for Toyota getting into the game, they did that back in 2007 with a brand new 200K factory in the heart of truck country and made a true full size truck. It didn`t really work out well. They have tried for many years at this market. Certainly they should give up. But just as I don`t expect the Malibu or Fusion to dethrone the Camry don`t expect the Tundra to break in to even the top 3.

        • 0 avatar

          Thornmark is sharpening his claws for the kill! “rawr!!!”

        • 0 avatar

          “If Toyota really wants to be a player it has got to really get into the game, but since it is already outselling Ford in the US it may be pulling its punches in a segment that has essentially kept Ford in business”

          Why would Toyota “pull its punches” on trucks?

      • 0 avatar

        Ford didn’t sell 71K F-150s. They sold 71K F-series which includes F-150 thru F-450 (maybe even the F-550, F-650, and F-750). But the F-150 is the most popular of the F-series. is the only one I know of that breaks down the F-series data, But they usually don’t published that data until mid-month. For July, the F-150 accounted for about 68% of F-series sales. It’s usually a 4:1 advantage for F-150 vs Tundra.

    • 0 avatar
      sunridge place


      So, you’re saying that Ford needs to ramp up their subprime and leasing on the Fusion to catch up to the competition?

      FYI to Derek or other TTAC team members…this article showed up in my email but its not visible on the website to access.

      • 0 avatar

        Looking into it, thank you sunridge.

      • 0 avatar


        They and others may be doing that already.

        From AN :Larry Dominique, president of ALG Inc., agrees. “Manufacturers and lenders are subventing leases, but they are setting up reserves to cover the losses when these vehicles come off lease,” he said today. “So it’s a rational business decision.”

        • 0 avatar
          sunridge place

          You should read more thoroughly. Ford trails the industry in leasing quite a bit.


          You stated leasing and subprime was driving the #’s up then comment that Fusion was getting ‘creamed.’ So my point was that perhaps the mid sized cars that ‘creamed’ Fusion are participating more aggressively in the two areas of the business that you think are driving the volumes up.

  • avatar

    Strong Dart sales meant 6,901 cars. The Civic sold about 39,500 times in August. Corolla was #2 in the class with about 24,800 sales.

    • 0 avatar

      I’d sure love to know why “TTAC Staff” threw in a cheap-shot line about Camry sales “buoyed by incentives” (while actually providing no number to back it up) but neglects to mention anything about the Civic and Accord being “buoyed by incentives” despite selling nearly 40,000 each.

      • 0 avatar
        Jack Baruth

        I’ll ask it.

        TTAC Staff is a robot.

        Seriously, I appreciate the feedback.

      • 0 avatar

        …I’d sure love to know why “TTAC Staff” threw in a cheap-shot line about Camry sales “buoyed by incentives” (while actually providing no number to back it up)….

        If your “annoyance” is because TTAC did not quantify how other brands may be buoyed by incentives, that’s a fair comment. However, if it is because you feel the Camry is being shortchanged by the mere mention of Toyota’s incentive program, well, there is a story of change here. In these parts (NE) the airwaves are loaded with ads for deals on Camry, way more than any other brand, including the Fusion. Frankly, they sound like Ford did when they were facing the prospect of losing the #1 sales position on the Taurus. Toyota has a bit a dilemma on their hands. Once a brand that could hold out for top transaction prices and be selective with customer financing, that simply is not the case anymore. The competition has caught up. Toyota still has the advantage of the best reliability, but today being mid-pack or better is still going to give that prospective buyer a reliable car. Years ago it made sense to put Toyota on top of your shopping list. Today, IMHO, automatically going Toyota without looking at all the comparable models offered by others is doing an injustice to yourself. And that is not meant to be a slight to the Camry; it is still a great car, “beige” comments be damned.

    • 0 avatar

      Whether talking about its poor sales figures, subpar fuel economy numbers, inadequate powertrains, or abysmal build quality, I think we’ve all seen enough to declare the Dart a massive failure for Fiatsler.

      That certainly does not bode well at all for other Fiat-sourced products now in the pipeline…

      • 0 avatar
        Aleister Crowley

        I think you are correct. Most of Chrysler’s gains and profits come from Jeep and Ram. The new Cherokee has Dart/Fiat underpinnings and has been equally disastrous. It’s been subject to delay after delay, and I don’t even need to mention the styling.

  • avatar

    I’d sure love to know why “TTAC Staff” threw in a cheap-shot line about Camry sales “buoyed by incentives” (while actually providing no number to back it up) but neglects to mention anything about the Civic and Accord being “buoyed by incentives” despite selling nearly 40,000 each

    • 0 avatar

      Because the Civic and Accord have much lower incentives (and lower fleet sales), that is a well known fact. Camry sales were impressive but when you can buy a Camry for under $19K that helps.

      • 0 avatar

        And the Accord and Civic are at/near the top of their respective segment when it comes to ATP while the Camry is near the bottom (same thing held true for the old Corolla; we’ll see about the new one).

    • 0 avatar

      TTAC has already reported (multiple times) that the Camry’s incentives are much higher than those offered on either the Civic or Accord.

  • avatar

    If Mitsubishi and Volvo can’t make it at a time like this…

    • 0 avatar

      Volvo seems to be doing what a string of moribund companies have done in the past, come out w/ an impossibly good-looking sports model to draw attention to its more prosaic fare:

      The Volvo Concept Coupe

    • 0 avatar

      Mitsubishi gained 24% in sales last month – it’s just that they have gotten pretty low, so that a 24% gain for them doesn’t seem as great as say if a company like Ford (with already big sales) gained that much. If they roll out new product, I think they’ll be okay. They seem to be more globally focused with their vehicles now. It does hurt them to not offer a mid-size car in the U.S. and a large SUV, but their current strategy is expected to net them a $1 billion world wide profit this year, which is a big improvement from where they have been. I guess time will only tell, but it seems they have bottomed out.

  • avatar

    JLR is now only 1351 units behind Lincoln!

  • avatar

    Hyundai-Kia must be seriously thinking about expanding either the Montgomery or the West Point facility by now.

    • 0 avatar

      Why? If they are so supply constrained, shouldn’t they be flying off the delivery trucks before they even hit the lot?
      Days on the lot for August:
      Sonata: 41
      Optima: 36
      Camry: 46
      Accord: 29
      Fusion: 37
      Altima: 67
      Malibu: 58

      I believe the numbers speaks for themselves. Something J.Emerson still hasn’t learned. Looks like Hyundai-Kia’s inventory is right in line with other midsize sedans.

      • 0 avatar

        Taken directly from the pages you just linked:
        “Days on Lot measures the average number of days a model sits on a dealer’s lot before it’s sold. This is one predictor of a dealer’s willingness to negotiate.”

        Days on the lot isn’t meant to be an exact measure of demand. It can give you a rough idea, but it’s not great to rely on it as a single metric. In any case, I highly question the accuracy of those figures, as they seem to run contrary to just about every other piece of information we have regarding supply and demand for Hyundai-Kia models.

        Hyundai-Kia’s growth plateau is almost certainly related to supply constraints more than any other issue:

        “Montgomery’s Hyundai assembly plant built more vehicles in August than any month in the facility’s history, the third time this year that the plant has broken its all-time monthly production record.
        The demand keeps rising. Hyundai Motor America reported record sales in August, led by Montgomery-made cars. he locally made Elantra continued to gain steam as the company’s hottest seller, with 24,700 sedans sold in August. That’s nearly 1,000 more than June and up 37 percent from last August. Sales of the Montgomery-made Sonata fell by nearly 2,000 vehicles to 16,917 — a sales total that’s still more than twice as high as the company’s third-best seller, the Santa Fe. HMA said in a release Wednesday that Sonata sales have been constrained by production capacity limits at Hyundai Motor Manufacturing Alabama. The plant shifted its production mix earlier this year to focus more heavily rolling out Elantras, so it hasn’t been able to produce as many Sonatas as it did in 2012.”

        “Sales of Hyundai’s three core U.S.-built models – Santa Fe, Sonata and Elantra – were up a combined 18 percent, and represented 75 percent of total sales this month. The all-new Santa Fe continues its strong sales pace with a 79 percent gain over last August. Consumers continue to be drawn to Elantra, ALG’s highest residual value compact car for three straight years, with sales up 37 percent to 24,700. Sonata continues to be in high demand, but sales have been constrained by production capacity limitations at the Hyundai Alabama plant which is now running a three-shift, 24-hour-a-day operating pattern to meet demand. Both Sonata and Elantra are operating with less than a 30-day supply.”

        Read more here:

        • 0 avatar

          “Days on the lot isn’t meant to be an exact measure of demand.”

          Huh? If there is such a high demand for Hyundai-Kia models, they wouldn’t be sitting on the lot for so long. Shouldn’t they be pre-sold already (zero days on the lot)?

          “In any case, I highly question the accuracy of those figures, as they seem to run contrary to just about every other piece of information we have regarding supply and demand for Hyundai-Kia models.”

          Those numbers are from A source that you’ve used in the past. So you are saying that we shouldn’t trust 3rd party data but info taken directly from the Hyundai-Kia is gold right? That sacbee article you link is directly from Hyundai’s press release. It even list the author as Hyundai Motor America. It just amazes me that you wrote an “expose” on not trusting Honda regarding their fleet numbers (which you were proven very wrong with 3rd party data and Honda was very correct), yet you take Hyundai at their word.

          • 0 avatar

            “Shouldn’t they be pre-sold already”

            You seem to have a fundamental misconception of how the American car market works. Dealers can’t sell cars they don’t have. Americans, by and large, don’t buy cars direct from factories. If a dealer doesn’t immediately sell a car the instant it arrives in a showroom, that doesn’t mean there is low demand for that model. It means that the dealer hasn’t yet found a customer for that particular car, at the price the dealer wants them to pay. The stakes are slightly higher here than in the world of other consumer durables. Would you rather hold on to a car for 30 days and sell it at sticker, or sell it in two weeks for $5k under MSRP?

            The rest of your post consists of putting words in my mouth and/or attempting to set up a “gotcha” which doesn’t make much sense. I never used data from in the way that you’re attempting to do so here, nor did I claim that Hyundai-Kia’s data was “gold,” nor did I say we can’t trust 3rd party data because you abused a statistic. Unless you can somehow prove to me that A. running all US production facilities 24/7 is a sign of “slack demand” or B. that H-K outright lied about their year-over-year sales increases, I’m not sure what you have to offer to this conversation.

            One more piece from which quotes the senior analyst of KBB on the subject of H-K’s American production constraints:
            “If Hyundai wants to continue to participate in that market, they have to take a hard look at expansion, said Alec Gutierrez, senior analyst at Kelley Blue Book. “I think they’re already feeling the pressure from the likes of Honda and Toyota,” he said, noting that both Japanese automakers have revitalized their lineups lately. “Unless they get more product on the ground, they’re really going to be stagnant.” Speculation in industry circles suggests that Hyundai may start talking about an expansion in Montgomery within the next 18 months, assuming that current sales trends in the market continue.”

          • 0 avatar

            “I never used data from in the way that you’re attempting to do so here…”

            What am I attempting to do here?! Something that you have never done, which is support a thesis/claim with real data. So you are saying that you have never used data to support your claim that the Camry was a stealth failure because of overproduction by using count of how many Camry were on sale on its site?
            “A car that supposedly sold itself until a very short time ago barely moves off dealer lots without a pile of cash and some of the most desperate-sounding marketing in recent memory. ( counted 38,844 Camrys for sale nationwide at last glance, compared to about half as many Fusions). Toyota is supposed to be above this sort of nonsense, right?”

            “…nor did I say we can’t trust 3rd party data because you abused a statistic.”

            So you never said “In any case, I highly question the accuracy of those figures, as they seem to run contrary to just about every other piece of information we have regarding supply and demand for Hyundai-Kia models.”? And the only information you can come up with is Hyundai PR fluff.

            Abused a statistic? LOL. This, from someone who usually backs up their thesis “with anecdotal evidence based on what I see go through the remarketing auctions, the composition of rental fleets, etc.” So you think that days on the lot is not a measure of demand. Most analyst will disagree with you.
            “Vehicles that spend little time in inventory are typically in high demand, while vehicles that spend an extended time in inventory are in low demand.” – See more at:

            Here’s my response to your two part question:
            A. Hyundia is not running their factory 24/7. Your reading skill is lacking. According to those articles you linked, “The plant expanded last year and has operated round-the-clock since then, with the line rolling out Elantras and Sonatas 24 hours a day across three shifts Monday through Friday.” Just because you are running at full capacity doesn’t mean that you have more buyers than products. Are there 5000 or whatever number of potential Hyundai-Kia customer every month who would like to buy a car but couldn’t because there were no more cars? The data says there are cars on the lot to buy.
            B. I never said H-K lied about their year-over-year sales increases. Those numbers are accurate. And why do you think that year-over-year sales increases is an indicator of demand. If that’s the case then the Sonata’s demand is falling fast while the Camry is hot. What I’m skeptical about is their claim that they are supply constrained and their inventory is less than 30 days. Third party data (TrueCar,, says otherwise.

        • 0 avatar

          Over the last year, Hyundai has increased incentives by 45%, versus the industry increase of 10%. Now, Hyundai incentives are back above Honda and close to Toyota.

          The supply constraint story doesn’t make a whole lot of sense in light of the incentives increases, increasing fleet sales, and those days-on-lot figures.

          Between January and July, Hyundai-Kia fleet sales were up by 44,600 units while sales were down by 46,700 units. Supplies are so constrained that fleet sales are up by 62% while retail sales are falling.

          • 0 avatar

            If your argument influences J.Emerson’s beliefs one little bit, I’ll be shocked. I’m sure he is assimilating the information that H-K is discounting and fleeting their lot-sitting products into his core assumption that supply shortages are the only thing keeping H-K from toppling Toyota and Honda in retail sales as we laugh.

      • 0 avatar

        For kicks I took a look at the days supply for the 2013 Jetta and Passat. They are 83 and 84 days respectively, or about double the segment average. You can argue all day long about whether 41 is great or just good for Sonata but everyone will agree 83/84 is awful for the VW twins.

        It was months ago that VW ramped down production, the days supply should have come down to a more normal number by now. Note being worst for mid-size days supply has nothing to do with the lack of a competitive crossover entry. That is far from the only thing keeping VW sales down in an up market.

  • avatar

    Looking at this sales report I don’t know how TTAC can say VW sales are through the roof this year. VW is one of the few brands with a year-to-date sales decline, kept in good company by the likes of Volvo, MItsubishi and Lincoln.

    • 0 avatar
      sunridge place

      Where has TTAC made recent comments about VW sales in the US being strong?

      Derek has written several pieces recently pointing out the current state accurately.

      • 0 avatar

        In his write up on the Passat 1.8TSI a couple of days ago Jack said “The American public, however, loves it and VW’s sales are through the roof this year, largely on Passat momentum.” Usually when someone speaks of sales “this year” it is assumed he or she means compared to last year not the distant past.

        • 0 avatar
          sunridge place

          ahh…I hadn’t read Jack’s series but you are correct. Someone should have called him out on that statement.

          Derek’s pieces are more accurate for sure.

          • 0 avatar

            He did get called out on that and also on the Passat review. I think that’s why we saw the Fusion article today, it was damage control. He either doesn’t read Derek’s stuff, forgets easily or was trying to help out his hosts.

          • 0 avatar
            Jack Baruth

            None of the above.

            Since the Passat was introduced, sales at VW have gone up. The 120,000-unit bump from 2011 to 2012 was partially due to the Passat which sells at a rate of 10k/month now instead of the about none/month for the B6.

            What I wrote was easy to read (even for me, now that I look back) as saying “VW is up for July 2013 v. July 2013”. That’s not correct. Luckily the B&B never take that sort of thing lying down.

          • 0 avatar
            sunridge place

            Jack- you are hereby branded as the VW shill Editor-in-Chief of TTAC based on your horrendous one sentence statement.

            We now expect you to drill us over and over how the supposedly ‘closed’ market in Japan is really wide open.

            That said, I agree. I actually read through your whole VW series today and enjoyed them.

            The statement you made:

            ‘The American public, however, loves it and VW’s sales are through the roof this year, largely on Passat momentum’

            should have been

            ‘The American public, however, loves it and VW’s sales are up over the last few years, in part due to Passat momentum.’

            Do 20 pushups and call it fixed. Or, you could have blamed the robotic TTAC Staff as the source of sales related facts?


  • avatar

    Nothing new here just strong month overall.

    D3 automakers are all great, growing retail sales, less fleet sales, new models, pickups are great for proffits

    Japanese – well YEN is right now boosting their proffits, we will see how exchange rates will be in few months, but i feel Toyota,Honda can in remaining months have higher sales than Ford,Chrysler, even Nissan right now is huge, bigger than HK combined.

    HK – well it was their decision to not build next plant, but right now they are stagnating instead of growing rapidly – i mean if they would have 3rd plant in NAFTA area, they would be growing maybe even faster than japanese, because their vehicles are selling and selling, who knows how fast they could have been growing right now if they could produce much more than currently they can – they are running at full capacity maybe even beyoned 100% capacity at their 2 US plants.

    VW-besides their premium vehicles they are stagnating this year while overall market is growing, they shoudl do something, Audi is great, Porsche is great but VW brand is doing something wrong…

    Subaru – i don´t understand why are they growing so fast not only this year but last years, i am not living in USA, but why is that Subaru is such star right now, they are not luxury brand, not mainstream brand, but their growth is more than impressive.

  • avatar
    healthy skeptic

    Looks like Rolls Royce and Maybach really need to step up their respective games. Everyone else is crushing them.

    • 0 avatar

      Well, Maybach has been discontinued which may account for it’s decline, while Rolls may be low in number, but who wants to take a stab at it’s profitability per unit?

  • avatar

    GM 18% how’s that Find New Roads working so far?

  • avatar

    Cheap leases (even the luxury marks), zero down, sign and drive, subprime finances and lots of cash on the hood – even Toyota and to a lesser extent Honda (cheap leases).

    Impressive month, but seems we didn’t learn a lot from 2007.

    Agree with the last sentence, which is kind of bad news for Toyota with Detroit grade incentives on Camry with segment lows ATP – and historic incentives on Prius. They should be doing more than treading water. Lexus was impressive, Scion and Linclon are dead brands walking. Volvo and Infiniti are adrift.

    • 0 avatar


      With Subaru I believe the low base MSRP on their entire lineup combined with the lease and finance offers on pretty much every vehicle really drove the sales.

      Drive off in a BRZ for $350 a month is hard for any kid to pass up.

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