By on February 28, 2009

A UAW workers writes:

REMEMBER WORLD WAR 2? who did America & the World turn to in that time when Japan & Germany were murdering millions of people in the world – The WORLD turned to the Americans for help and how did America help win the war against Japan – I’ll tell you who it was, The Big 3 Auto Companies that’s who- FORD – GM & CHRYSLER – they rebuilt and retooled all their factories and plants so that they could build Tanks – and Jeeps and Trucks and Troop Carriers -Boat Guns and Ship Artillery Cannons – and many types of Weapons and other Equipment – Do you think that when World War 3 comes that Japan and other companies will retool their factories to help America – NO THEY WILL NOT. After 9/11 in New York, Who was it that gave 10 million dollars each? There was only 3 companies that gave that much and guess what else they gave? They gave Fleets of Cars and Trucks / SUVs’ and Building Spaces – It was the Big 3 -FORD -GM & Chrysler that’s who it was – I’ll tell you who else gave, it was USA Harley Davidson Motorcycles they gave 1 million dollars and a fleet of new Motorcycles for N.Y. Police Department – and with all that giving during one of our nations darkest time- Honda & Toyota and all the other foreign car companies DID NOT GIVE ONE PENNY to the people of the United States of America for 9/11 or Hurricane Katrina. Ford- GM & Chrysler Did.

The Big 3 helped Americans thru the bad times and tough times by giving, so we, America should show our support by helping them, by buying their products that in return supports OUR NATION and the AMERICAN PEOPLE who are Patriotic to this GREAT Nation. Do real Patriotic Americans want to see our U.S. Companies that provides 4-5 million people with daily jobs IN ALL 52 States Fail? and lose their jobs & pensions and retirements – How would you like to have worked for 30 yrs or more busting your back on the assembly lines, and after 30 + yrs have the pains and damages of working so hard every day, Arms and Fingers going numb, and all your joints and legs and backs hurting and can’t sleep due to body pains – Then lose your home, lose your car and all your furniture and belongings? Does America really understand how hard these people work building these vehicles and parts – I really don’t think they understand, maybe the Southern States in the south that are non-union – Oh, and by the way the UAW new Contract states that new hired people only make $14 per hour for the Big 3 – $15 bucks less than the Japanese plants. Japanese workers make $30 per hour, they just have fewer benefits and less people that are retired i! n the United States – but 10 yrs from now they will be in the same situation as Ford, Gm & Chrysler with more retired workers. Then the playing field will become more even. Now Congress wants to take more from the UAW workers, U.S. Workers only make up 9% of the cost of the cars or trucks, IF, EVERY True American bought a FORD-GM-CHRYSLER vehicle then all the problems would be gone, and the world would be talking about Japans-Korea’s-& Taiwan car makers in trouble, not the BIG 3. American BIG 3 Car Makers are building World Class Cars for the World, and The BIG 3 will prove it to the World by doing so, Are So-Called Americans- from States that have Foreign car plants so Anti-American that they would choose to let U.S. American jobs fail and go out of business and put around 4-5 million people out of work nation wide, what has become of True Patriotic Americans that support American jobs, by choosing a Car or a Truck or other American made U.S. products from the United States that in return helps the economy in all 52 states. Why have some of our leaders that we voted in Turned against the American worker – What has happen to our once great leaders that America needs, where are they? We need Leaders that are for the workers – we need Leaders that will bring manufacturing jobs back to the United States of America. America can not stand for this anymore, We the People of The Untied States of America must fight back against these foreign companies and start manufacturing our own products to sell to the world and provide better jobs and better wages for all of Americans, we must do this not only for ourselves, but we must do this for our children, and our grandchildren and their children for 100’s of years to comes, America must WAKE UP and open it’s eyes to what is happening to American manufacturing jobs, we must act now by supporting All American U.S. companies like FORD-GM & Chrysler. Americans can pull together and we can be the Super Power of the world that the World knows us as, not all Americans can go to college, that’s just the way things go for many Americans. So, what’s wrong with making a living busting your back in a factory, or on a assembly line making parts or building cars, making a good wage with benefits to have a decent life, with a simple home and a simple life – that’s the American Dream – and WE, as Americans need to believe in that dream again by Buying American Cars and Trucks and other American made products that supports our country The United States of America – not JAPAN – not CHINA – or Mexico or other nations. In Closing we have to do it for our Children, and our Grand Children and our pensions and their retirements and their pensions and theirs lives, WE must BELIEVE in America – We have to believe in ourselves again by acting on that Hope by buying American made Products. IN GOD WE TRUST – Michael W. Rucker – UAW assembly line worker for 22 yrs

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116 Comments on “Bailout Watch 423: REMEMBER WORLD WAR 2?...”


  • avatar
    arapaima

    Citations needed

    Oh, and spell check.

  • avatar
    dejalma

    the economy in all 52 states.
    Looks like Mr. Rucker failed some subjects in school.

    Taiwan car makers
    While I know Taiwan builds cars, I believe that they are mostly foreign owned plants.

    American BIG 3 Car Makers are building World Class Cars for the World
    Really? Cars built in the US? Wow!!!

    Why do I picture John Belushi in Animal House?

  • avatar
    Strippo

    I have a feeling I’ll be seeing this again. Or at least I would if I ever clicked on an e-mail message starting with “Fw:”

    Thanks a lot, Farago.

  • avatar
    Bancho

    He’s right, WWII will be another massively conventional war with battalions of tanks and bazookas and battleships and jeeps for everyone.

    When the Germans decide to bomb Pearl Harbor again we’ll be sorry we didn’t listen to this guy.

  • avatar
    ttacfan

    Last November I was looking for a car. I wanted to buy an American car. I could not decide what car is more American: Honda assembled in Ohio or Ford assembled in Mexico. I ended up buying used Pontiac. That way I knew the money stayed in the community. Unless it was secularized and it’s derivatives were traded on several financial markets at the same time.

  • avatar
    bassmangtk

    I tried to find an american car that met my needs when I was car hunting last year. The closest I could find was the Honda Element, designed in, for, and assembled by Americans.

  • avatar
    Geo. Levecque

    This Auto Worker has to realize that in War Two, Honda and Toyota where not in North America!
    Other countries including my own in World War two built Airplanes, Fighters for the Royal Airforce and also we started Sept 1939 at War with the Axis powers! Canada lost 42,000 people in that War, not bad for a Country of 11 million back then either.We all give what we can, no matter how much it hurts!

    As for Sept.11th in New York, Washington, glad that all the US Auto and Motor cycle companies helped. It was good public relations for them.

    What has this to do with Modern day Autos I don’t know!

  • avatar
    TEW

    If we end up having a need for the production like in WWII then we will probably end up commandeering the foreign company’s factories. If we end up in a despite struggle then no one will care about our countries PR image. The argument that the Big 3 did it out of their goodness of their hearts is untrue. There was a lot of money in the government contracts so the big 3 took advantage of it.

  • avatar
    BDB

    “When the Germans decide to bomb Pearl Harbor ”

    I hope that was a typo and you meant to say “the Japanese”.

  • avatar
    Strippo

    Forget it. He’s rolling.

  • avatar
    qfrog

    He is taking this all far too personally and the guilt trip (Oy Vey! Come the apocalypse you should want?). The anchor for this guilt trip is WWII, for what some previous generation of management and worker did at GM/Ford/Chryco and likely profited doing too (war is good business, no?).

    The most painful part of reading this was the lack of paragraphs. Reads like it came directly from a UAW propaganda extruder.

  • avatar
    oboylepr

    So that’s the reason I should be buying D3 cars, and there I was thinking your car choice was merely a personal preference.
    Another thought comes to mind; Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.

    Ah yes! when all else fails hide behind the flag!

  • avatar
    BDB

    They shouldn’t be particularly upset about Mexico. We’re in the same trading block (NAFTA).

  • avatar
    Bunter1

    Awe shoot, I’ll throw in also.

    I happened to be watching the the donation announcements after Katrina, IIRC Hondda and Toyota gave far more than the Fading 3.

    Bunter

  • avatar
    KatiePuckrik

    “who did America & the World turn to in that time when Japan & Germany were murdering millions of people in the world – The WORLD turned to the Americans for help “

    Got to love Americans and their selective memories!

    The world didn’t just turn to America for help. I believe that the UK, France and many other countries were involved. That’s why it was called a “WORLD war”.

    Now let’s fast forward a few decades. Japan and Germany have bought many US bonds to help finance the US, not to mention built many factories in the US. The UAW worker also carefully omits where US companies have outsourced production to China, Mexico, Canada, etc. He also mentions about buying products which supports the US economy. Like the Ohio built Accord? Or the Kentucky manufactured Camry? Or the Alabama made Sonata? No. Maybe he means the Pontiac Vibe (You know? The one designed, and built by Toyota).

    However, the UAW worker does make one valid point:

    “We the People of The Untied States of America must fight back against these foreign companies and start manufacturing our own products to sell to the world and provide better jobs and better wages for all of Americans”

    Japan has been ready to compete for some time. Well, Detroit, ready when you are…..

  • avatar
    Philip Lane

    The spelling and grammar are awful. The facts are almost all blatantly wrong–52 States?, really?.

    If it can actually be proven that a UAW worker penned this…um, piece, I promise to never buy another vehicle or associated parts or accessories assembled by a UAW worker.

    If this is the way American workers write, then I, for one, welcome our new Japanese overlords. (Tongue somewhat firmly in cheek.)

  • avatar
    RNader

    Did these guys cut their own wage to $14 per hour?
    Nope, I didn’t think so.

    ……Oh, just the poor guys coming behind you & working side by side next to you for half the wage. That’s quite a sacrifice considering the big 3 will not be in the position to hire tier 2(UAW lower cast employees) maybe forever! If and when they do hire, I’m sure they will love the feeling of solidarity of working with a group of people that earns twice what new people do. I’m sure the thought of not having a pension(ever) for tier two people will make them swell with team spirit!

    I can almost hear the american flags flapping in the wind in front of the union halls.

  • avatar
    teddy

    The man is dead on right.

  • avatar
    derm81

    Now let’s fast forward a few decades. Japan and Germany have bought many US bonds to help finance the US, not to mention built many factories in the US

    And who rebuilt these two nations after they destroyed themselves? We could have just let them become 3rd world nations but it was in our interest to build them up and make them allies.

    I will say that without Detroit’s industry, the war would have been much longer. all the naysayers will say “bu bu bu there were factories elsewhere.”

    No other city did more for the war effort than Detroit.

  • avatar

    Actually UAW dude, the current problem set for you guys & your part of US industry is much more analogous to the name of a great band and the title of 1 of their discs,

    the band is [teh ironyz; I haz it] “Bad Brains”,

    and their album, “I Against I”.


    Seacrest Out.

    best of luck.

  • avatar
    KatiePuckrik

    derm81,

    The US the may have helped rebuild these countries, but the point was that Japan and Germany have more than paid back.

  • avatar
    King Bojack

    People can drum up what the big three did or didn’t do all they want.

    No one will give a shit and go buy another Camcord.

    Typical Americans can’t be bothered with history or heritage or forward thinking about having both foreign manufacturing and oil addictions. Whoever can provide what Americans think is the best/cheapest product wins. America, home of the brave, the free, the sell outs. It’s nice to sit around thinking about the past but in modern times no one gives a shit. Probably never will, not when a 70’s Vega let them down too many times.

  • avatar
    dejalma

    I’m honored by the photo change.

  • avatar
    peoplewatching04

    I’d be mad if I was going to lose my job too.

  • avatar
    Jeff Puthuff

    Am I the first? No mention of how good ’ol Henry Ford admired/supported Hitler?

  • avatar
    Stein X Leikanger

    A little respect is due this and many other workers. They may have contributed collectively to the downfall of the industry in which they work, but maybe that was due to the war that’s fought between mismanagement and the workers in US businesses.

    Meanwhile, I invite you to have a look at industry that is no more, in America. Images of Lost American Labor – the link starts with automotive:

    http://www.lostlabor.com/automotive.htm

    For some reason I really like the Studebaker shot.
    http://www.lostlabor.com/auto06.htm

    Gone now.
    Today, on a short walk across three blocks, I counted twelve hair dressing salons; in one place, at an intersection, I could see five.

  • avatar

    UAW Worker needs to check his facts:

    BMW: $1 million in cash, 10 BMW X5’s, and 100 BMW Motorcycles to the NYPD

    Honda: $1.5 million

    Nissan: $1 million

    Subaru (Fuji Heavy Industries): $1 million

    VW/Audi: $2 milion, plus 25 VW Vans to the NY Fire Dept.

    you can check all this at:

    http://www.snopes.com/rumors/automakers.asp

    They do their research, so you don’t have to listen to myths!

  • avatar
    kaleun

    how patriotic.. there was a depression, no one was buying cars anyway. Then the government decides to buy millions of trucks, tanks etc. (of course they pay three times as much than a private costumer) and the car companies produce it and take the money? How selfless of those companies…
    Oh. let’s not forgot, GM and Ford also built trucks for the Nazis, for which they used slave labor provided by the SS. I’m really glad they are so patriotic and did not make those things for just money or so…
    Standard Oil refueled German submarines in the Caribbean, maybe let’s call them patriots too since they sold oil to the US navy as well.
    Yeah, pal, better trust in god.. because the school system has failed you bitterly. I’m sure you attached that sheet-metal with 52 screws instead of the 50 screws that are required.
    Oh, and you are proud that the new hirees get half the wages you get? What a sacrifice that the UAW members made in the name of OTHER future members. It’s easy to negotiate the new hirees get $14 an hour when you can keep your $ 30 for sitting in a job bank all day. Like the big 2.2 would be hiring any time soon anyway (unless the taxpayer spits out some more money, of course).
    Gosh, I’m an engineer attending grade school part time (paid on my own, not the union or employer) and make less money than you with an 8th grade dropout degree and you talk about the sacrifices you make? Maybe if you want to be more than an assembly line worker after 22 years you shouldn’t have whined all those years and should have gotten off your butt.

  • avatar
    TaurusGT500

    Do real Patriotic Americans want to see ……

    ….IF, EVERY True American bought a FORD-GM-CHRYSLER vehicle then all the problems would be gone,… …blah blah blah

    Hmmm… where to start? Sort of like fishing with a stick of dynomite.

    Eureka!!! I think I figured it out … RF, Fess up, did you write this yourself on a slow news day?

    I’ve noticed a trend lately; insanely crazy, over-the-top, not-all-that-reasoned editorials guaranteed to ignite the keyboards of the regulars. (e.g., arrogant boy-racer doing a buck and a quarter through FL, angry All-Dealers-Suck-&-Must-Die dude)

    Is there like some kind of secret Internet Sweeps Week where clickthroughs are measured to set ad rates?

    PS: Is 1,000+ words the new editorial limit?

  • avatar
    EnusBurdett

    What of the industries other than the Big 3 that played a part in supplying the war? Should we look into bailing out the shipyards and getting them back to 1945 trim? If a shipyard has since ceased to be should we recreate and fund it?

    Also, why limit ourselves to WW2? Let’s revisit every industry that supplied goods and services in every war in our history. The cannon foundaries near lake Erie could use a hand.

  • avatar
    Autopassion

    What a waste of time. I don’t mind controversy, but the posting editors here ought to at least require such “editorials” to have their basic facts down.

  • avatar
    Phil Ressler

    The US the may have helped rebuild these countries, but the point was that Japan and Germany have more than paid back.

    No, I don’t think so. Aside from the direct costs the US incurred in leading the rebuilding of Japan and Germany after WWII, there were the vast and continuing costs of opening up our markets before other nations opened theirs. The US operated an intentional policy of lifing the world to a more rapid ascent toward more widespread wealth via its open market when others were more closed.

    Further, the US subsidized — and continues to — Japan and Germany by assuming the role of front-line military defender of what’s nominally defined as The Free World. Both countries would need and would have needed much higher defense outlays if they truly had to fend for themselves. Neither pulls their weight militarily, still.

    Further still, the US’ direct and indirect costs incurred in lifting devastated allies, liberated regions and lesser participants from WWII were not small either, nor is it done. Britain, France, Italy, Greece, et al all enjoyed more rapid recoveries from a post-war broken-state condition because of American generosity and an opened market. Plus those countries, too, have benefited from relaxed defense requirements, the UK’s characteristic strenuous vigilance notwithstanding.

    No, it hasn’t been an even trade, nor did we ask for it to be. The American establishment concluded during and after WWII that western fratricide could not be allowed to persist, and that the key was proliferation of wealth and interlinking of economic common interest. We have the world we worked hard to get: many players with the strength to compete economically by more or less capitalist rules. Now we have to transfer some of our burdens to others, and more broadly compete in the international structure we intended.

    We’re more than 60 years into an intentional policy with consequences both expected and unforseen. But if anyone thinks Japan and Germany, along with many others, have returned in equal measure what was invested and sacrificed by Americans, they’re not seeing what America did for the world holistically.

    As for the original post, the many errors, ranting tone, and facts-not-checked aside, the general idea is sound: Americans have it within their power, sans any public funds, to ensure persistence of a healthy domestically-owned automotive manufacturing sector by virtue of their own purchasing power. It’s not patriotism that argues for this, it’s self-interest and it’s easy to do, now more than any time in the last 30 years.

    Phil

  • avatar
    jamescarmichael

    Patriotism is way over-rated. What, just because you were born in a country automatically means that it’s the best country there is, with the best companies, and the best morals?

    I’m Canadian and I reckon Canada’s a pretty good country overall, but if a major Canadian company starts acting like an idiot, I won’t back them up any more than any foreign company.

  • avatar
    Chris Inns

    The Untied People of the United States demands more American-made cars, and more American-made paragraphs!

    Anyway how dare these misguided foreigners try to export cars and other industrial-type things to other nations. Don’t they know that only America is allowed to do that?

  • avatar
    Happy_Endings

    So was Mr. Rucker’s GPA 0.0 as well?

  • avatar
    Bancho

    BDB :

    You seriously haven’t ever seen Animal House?

  • avatar

    “So, what’s wrong with making a living busting your back in a factory, or on a assembly line making parts or building cars, making a good wage with benefits to have a decent life, with a simple home and a simple life – that’s the American Dream” – Nothing is wrong with making a living in a factory, but when did the American dream become making money, having a house and living a simple life?

    The American dream is life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, or, Constitutionally speaking, “to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity.”

    An overpriced 2700 sq. ft. home, two new cars in the driveway, 2.5 kids and a chicken in every pot is just fine, but not – fundamentally speaking – what America is about.

  • avatar
    KatiePuckrik

    “Britain, France, Italy, Greece, et al all enjoyed more rapid recoveries from a post-war broken-state condition because of American generosity and an opened market.”

    What?! Are you having a flipping joke?!

    The UK has NEVER recovered from the second world war. It ticked along during the 50’s, but due to a imbalance in population (few men around, due to the war) the UK never got back on its feet. Any slight increase in wealth had nothing to do with the “American generosity”. Eventually, in the 60’s it was acknowledged that the UK couldn’t “go it alone” (before the war, that thought would have been laughed at) and we had to forge ties with Europe. Likewise, France, Germany, Greece, Italy et al had to forge ties.

    Due to globalisation (something which the US profited greatly from and never complained about, until globalisation started hurting its own industries. Then, suddenly, started crying foul), Europe had to band together. Not only for trade, but for military security. America, likes to think of itself as the protectors of the weak, but the fact is, Germany doesn’t need them. Europe can look after itself.

    Americans extols the virtues of capitalism, but, strangely, use it when it suits them. Steel industry in trouble? No problem! Just put up steel tarriffs (which were illegal under WTO rules).

    Like the saying goes:

    Capitalism on the way up and socialist on the way down.

    America is no exception.

  • avatar
    pleiter

    Detroit assemblers replaced by Mexican assemblers;
    Mexican assemblers replaced by Chinese assemblers;
    Chinese assemblers replaced by robotic assemblers;
    Robotic assemblers programmed by Det……..oh, never mind.

  • avatar
    Gardiner Westbound

    A Detroit talk radio host recently urged listeners to support their friends and neighbors by buying American automobiles. Unfortunately he chose the Ford Fusion to illustrate his theme, saying it exemplifies U.S. and UAW quality and craftsmanship.

    Most of you will know the Fusion is manufactured at Ford’s Hermosillo Stamping & Assembly plant in Hermosillo, Sonora, Mexico, where the similar Mercury Milan and Lincoln ??? are also built.

  • avatar
    Phil Ressler

    The UK has NEVER recovered from the second world war.

    The UK didn’t restore its world position after WWII, nor did it have any hope of doing so. But that doesn’t mean it didn’t recover. Britain is vastly wealthier today than it was in the immediate post-war years.

    Any slight increase in wealth had nothing to do with the “American generosity”.

    I’ve been to Britain many times and I have a British wife. I know the country well. If you think the US had nothing to do with the UK’s improved quality of life relative to 1950, you’re in serious denial of the facts.

    Due to globalisation (something which the US profited greatly from and never complained about, until globalisation started hurting its own industries.

    Some Americans have complained about globalization, which is also true for individuals of every other country, but “the US” has not complained about globalization. We instigated it and intended to.

    America, likes to think of itself as the protectors of the weak, but the fact is, Germany doesn’t need them. Europe can look after itself.

    Laughable. Europe hasn’t “looked after itself” since about 1939.

    Americans extols the virtues of capitalism, but, strangely, use it when it suits them. Steel industry in trouble? No problem! Just put up steel tarriffs (which were illegal under WTO rules).

    The political realities of mitigating capitalism do not make the US uncapitalistic. Steel industry tarriffs were an exception, not the rule, and anyway in the bigger picture were but a flea.

    Capitalism on the way up and socialist on the way down.

    America is no exception.

    Exceptional for its swing being limited by degrees relative to others. But this has nothing to do with my original observations.

    Phil

  • avatar
    George B

    …Oh, and by the way the UAW new Contract states that new hired people only make $14 per hour for the Big 3 – $15 bucks less than the Japanese plants. Japanese workers make $30 per hour, they just have fewer benefits and less people that are retired i! n the United States – but 10 yrs from now they will be in the same situation as Ford, Gm & Chrysler with more retired workers.

    Huge error! The transplant workers and just about all other non-union private sector workers have defined contribution 401k type retirement plans, not defined benefit pension plans. Check plan rating here http://www.brightscope.com/ The company pays all its going to pay while the employee is working and has no ongoing expense when the employee retires. Therefore, the non-union auto manufacturers WILL NOT be in the same situation as Ford, GM, and Chrysler because they have not promised future benefits in retirement.

  • avatar
    Pch101

    This thing reads like one of those bogus spam emails, down to the attribution at the end. It seems to have made its way around the internet, too.

    Has anyone confirmed the existence of this “Michael W. Rucker”? While I have no doubt that there are people who feel this way, I’d bet that this particular person doesn’t exist.

  • avatar
    KatiePuckrik

    Mr Ressler,

    So what you’re saying is putting in tarriffs to fend off capitalism, doesn’t necassarily mean that the US doesn’t like capitalism?

    Nonsense. What it means is, the US likes capitalism…when it suits itself. One only has to look at the handouts loans for evidence of that. And the arguments around the steel tarriffs are laughable.

    As for increased wealth, I don’t think that had anything to do with the US and more to do with closer ties with Europe. The free trade in Europe helped get the UK back on its feet after it was a bit of an “economic basket case” in the 60’s and 70’s. Believe it or not, despite a lot of faults, Europe is quite helpful sometimes and it doesn’t try to take credit for help it didn’t do….

    With regards to Europe not looking after itself, this just sounds like the mad rantings of country trying to make itself sound more important than it actually is.

    By the way, my final comment about “Capitalism on the way up and socialist on the way down” had nothing to do with your comments and more to do with highlighting how ridiculous the US economy is. Preaching values you don’t truly believe in.

    But you knew that, didn’t you…..?

    P.S. I’ve just done a quick search online and this Michael W Rucker email is about 2 months old! This link shows that it was posted on their website on 02.01.2009.

    http://www.policywank.com/2008/11/26/debunking-the-wages-of-uaw-workers/

  • avatar
    oldyak

    I read this a while ago and decided to forgo any comment since I KNEW that bashing would occur.
    But MY GOD the level of anti-US sentiment is truly disturbing…
    I`m all for freedom of the press!
    But your U.S.haters that post on this site should be a little more conscious of what GOOD the United States did and still does around the world!
    As far as the UAW goes..I dont believe for a minute that ‘they’ work thier asses off’ any more than than most of us.but be that as it may,the manufacturers agreed to the wage packages and the UAW has made major concessions.
    and as far as bashing a person for misspelling words,lets REALLY get dirty…you should be ashamed!
    Poke fun at our school systems….Poke fun at the parents for not assisting their kids with an education!!
    Make fun of our culture…go ahead,we don’t care!!!
    Make negative remarks about our automobiles…most of the world didn’t know what one was without the ‘good old U.S.A.”
    War reparations…….the biggest joke of them all,we got our reparations all right,if hate and jealousy were currency,we`d all be rich.
    There is absolutely nothing WRONG with being a PATRIOT and wanting whats best for your country…even if you CANT SPELL IT!
    And YES my next car will be manufactured by the BIG 3..or whatever is left!!!

  • avatar
    dejalma

    P.S. I’ve just done a quick search online and this Michael W Rucker email is about 2 months old! This link shows that it was posted on their website on 02.01.2009.

    http://www.policywank.com/2008/11/26/debunking-the-wages-of-uaw-workers/

    or here:
    http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-218189
    He left his address and phone # at the above link

    Nice house
    http://maps.google.com/maps?q=1632+Pagel+*Lincoln+Park**,+MI+48146&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&split=0&gl=us

  • avatar
    Luther

    It was not long ago that Big 3 declared war on the American people by building crap cars that were deliberately designed to fail… They deminished the lives of millions of Americans and laughed all the way to the bank. Ironically, It took the Japanese and Germans to build reliable cars (along with websites like TTAC) that ended Big 3 tyranny.

  • avatar
    blue adidas

    Mr Rucker misses the point entirely. Build better cars and people will buy them. He can do his part by writing Gettelfinger a letter explaining how he believes that the domestic car industry cannot be competitive with the current union labor contracts, that big 2.5 loose $2k on every car because of related labor costs, and that overpriced UAW labor should do their part to cover their own healthcare expenses like everyone else. Mr Rucker, the guilt trip laden letter is completely ridiculous, because you’ve contributed to an unsustainable labor structure that’s existed for over thirty years.

  • avatar
    Demetri

    This is why the D3 have such a terrible image. Guys like this come in and make us feel like Detroit cars are only for completely ignorant people. It’s like clothing. You don’t wear a wife beater and cut off sweat pants even if you like them. Why? Because only white trash would wear something like that.

  • avatar
    RNader

    George B :
    February 28th, 2009 at 6:20 pm

    …Oh, and by the way the UAW new Contract states that new hired people only make $14 per hour for the Big 3 – $15 bucks less than the Japanese plants. Japanese workers make $30 per hour, they just have fewer benefits and less people that are retired i! n the United States – but 10 yrs from now they will be in the same situation as Ford, Gm & Chrysler with more retired workers.

    Huge error! The transplant workers and just about all other non-union private sector workers have defined contribution 401k type retirement plans, not defined benefit pension plans. Check plan rating here http://www.brightscope.com/ The company pays all its going to pay while the employee is working and has no ongoing expense when the employee retires. Therefore, the non-union auto manufacturers WILL NOT be in the same situation as Ford, GM, and Chrysler because they have not promised future benefits in retirement.

    A HUGE error indeed!

    The new Honda plant in Indiana pays about $16 per hour. They needed to hire 800 people and thousands applied for those jobs.

    Hyundai pays around $14 per hour.

    The southern transplants all have said they will address and adjust the wage scale to remain profitable.

    That makes tier two a non issue. I don’t think you will find one single $14 per hour UAW worker anyware other than a handfull of janitors.

  • avatar
    PeteMoran

    Add one more to my list of Generalizations About Americans;

    Many fail to recognize that WW2 could not have been won in Europe without the USSR (who lost a casual ~20 million killed BTW).

  • avatar
    Kendahl

    In the 40 years I have been buying cars with my own money, I have never bought anything from GM, Ford or Chrysler. Most have been Japanese, a few were German and one was British. We currently have a Subaru wagon that was built in Indiana. To me, that is more “American” than a Ford built in Mexico.

    The problem is that Detroit has never wanted to build the kind of car I want to buy. That is Michael’s bosses’ fault, not his. If one looks back 40 years, what did Detroit have to compete with the Datsun 510 (answer: Vega and Pinto), BMW 2002 or Datsun 240Z? Today, what do they have to compete with the Porsche Cayman, BMW 128i or Audi A3 and A4? If they wanted to, I’m sure Detroit could build better, cheaper competitors to these cars. However, until they do, the best advice I can give Michael is to go to work for a manufacturer that does.

  • avatar
    mikey

    So the guy can’t spell, and his grammer is a little shaky.Who f—-n cares?He got his point across didn’t he?Truth be known I agree with the guy 100%.

  • avatar
    cmcmail

    Companies, especially big multinational’s don’t do things for countries or cities or workers, they do things for profit. If they have been in Detroit or Oshawa or Germany for 50 or 100 years it is only because it was a profitable environment to do business. They have no mandate to help cities except when it provides helpful PR. It is like saying those UAW workers did their jobs for the good of the country, false they did it for wages. Any other suggestion is BS.

  • avatar
    golden2husky

    Further, the US subsidized — and continues to — Japan and Germany by assuming the role of front-line military defender of what’s nominally defined as The Free World. Both countries would need and would have needed much higher defense outlays if they truly had to fend for themselves. Neither pulls their weight militarily, still.…

    The Japanese Constitution forbids a full blown military…don’t think defense outlays have any bearing…

  • avatar
    Phil Ressler

    So what you’re saying is putting in tarriffs to fend off capitalism, doesn’t necassarily mean that the US doesn’t like capitalism?

    Nonsense. What it means is, the US likes capitalism…when it suits itself. One only has to look at the handouts loans for evidence of that. And the arguments around the steel tarriffs are laughable.

    Politics always intrude on ideological purity, so no one is pure. We just do less of it than most. We’ve been through our periods of unbridled capitalism and found mitigation worthwhile. It’s an imperfect science trimming the excesses of capitalism without going too far and looking after the polity, but we hew to a pretty good line. It’s a dynamic relationship between political mitigation and economic purity. Live with it.

    As for increased wealth, I don’t think that had anything to do with the US and more to do with closer ties with Europe. The free trade in Europe helped get the UK back on its feet after it was a bit of an “economic basket case” in the 60’s and 70’s. Believe it or not, despite a lot of faults, Europe is quite helpful sometimes and it doesn’t try to take credit for help it didn’t do….

    I don’t know how old you are or whether you have parents/grandparents who were alive during the war and its aftermath, but even elder Brits who are bitter about the Iraq War recognize the immense benefit provided by the American open market, when we didn’t have to do it, to British manufacturing including export of the MG and its automotive relatives in the late 40s and early 50s. Further, the lightening of defense burden by US protection allowed more capital to flow into productive consumer sectors. Further, that continental Europe you banded together with for trade was lifted faster by the Marshall Plan and stalwart US protection from an expansionist USSR.

    Britain’s economic troubles of the 1960s and 1970s were mostly its own making, born of policies that placed unwise friction in your economy. We weren’t holding you back, by any means. And I didn’t say Europe isn’t internationally helpful, but outside of Britian it tends to be restricted to categories of help that eschew any heavy lifting.

    With regards to Europe not looking after itself, this just sounds like the mad rantings of country trying to make itself sound more important than it actually is.

    OK, Katie. Tomorrow we’ll announce that the United States is pulling its defense perimeter back to the Mid-Atlantic range and Hawaii. The caterwauling from Europe and Japan will be deafening and immediate.

    It won’t only be a deafening chorus of fear. It will also be a shouting prompted by Europeans and Japan imagining the economic effects of their defense budgets climbing from 1% – 2.5% of GDP to the 5 – 7% needed for power projection outside Europe commensurate with EU and Japanese interests.

    We are much less dependent on the volatile Middle East for oil than the EU or Japan, so let’s pull the Mediterraneon fleet and leave the Persian Gulf. What are we doing in the blue waters of the Indian Ocean? Protect shipping lanes worldwide? Not anymore. Let the EU build a blue-water navy with air power projection. Have at it, fellas. See what it feels like.

    Europe looking after itself….please spare the fiction. I don’t think I’ll see this in my lifetime because on-balance, Americans see ourselves as a force for good in global order and we’re mostly willing to keep on keeping on. When we’re not, we’ll see how Europe does “looking after itself.” Even Mr. Sarkozy and Ms. Merkel don’t think Europe can look after the EU’s own intersts without the US.

    We don’t think we’re more important than we actually are. We know exactly how important we are. The world economy still collapses when we get sick, and chaos escalates when we neglect a region. Once again, it’s going to be the US that lifts the world out of this current economic crisis, not the EU nor the BRICs.

    We have spent the last 60+ years intentionally reducing our relative dominance of the globe. We viewed our 50% command of global production in 1945 to be unwise. Other countries in that position might have tried to make that situation permanent. We emphatically did not. We’ve tried to transfer responsibility to others as they got on their feet, and have generally been met with reluctance. But it’s OK. We know we can do it when others can’t or won’t.

    By the way, my final comment about “Capitalism on the way up and socialist on the way down” had nothing to do with your comments and more to do with highlighting how ridiculous the US economy is. Preaching values you don’t truly believe in.

    Like any people, Americans are dynamic in their commitments to the hard points of our ideals but our idealism is relatively high. It’s just that we also have an equally stong pragmatic streak which is part of our cultural tension. We do believe in capitalism, and demonstrate that time and again by the limits we place upon our occasional swings toward socialist mitigation of it. That such mitigation dissatisfies purists is part of our ongoing political tension, which our system regularly resolves for some period of consensus.

    The US let mitigation of capitalism took its course between 1933 and roughly 1981. We moved to less restraint on capitalist behavior from 1981 through about 2007, and now we must mitigate again. Eventually we’ll get it right. The beauty of America is that we’ll be relevant long enough to have a chance to.

    Phil

  • avatar
    jet_silver

    Phil Ressler:Americans have it within their power, sans any public funds, to ensure persistence of a healthy domestically-owned automotive manufacturing sector by virtue of their own purchasing power.

    That’s right, Phil, and when it’s a healthy industry I might be interested in using my purchasing power on a domestic car. Just now, it is an unhealthy mess. The killer argument for this nonsense is that the Big 2.x think “outsourcing” – read “bringing in foreign cars, or pieces thereof” – is just dandy. For them. I prefer to cut out the middleman and buy my foreign car directly.

    Now: if either Ford or the General bring the level of integration needed to put together *good* cars back within the US, I suspect you will see the following: 1) cars that are good when compared with anything you will ever see worldwide; 2) management that knows how to run car companies. The Big 2.x are now systems integrators, not car companies.

  • avatar
    Phil Ressler

    The Japanese Constitution forbids a full blown military…don’t think defense outlays have any bearing…

    That the restriction is constitutional does not alter the reality of its economic benefits.

    Phil

  • avatar
    Cicero

    He said 52 states, twice. Obama says we have 57. I thought we had pretty much settled on there being 50. Maybe some of Obama’s $3.6 trillion budget should be used to hire someone to go out and count them.

  • avatar
    PeteMoran

    @ Phil Ressler

    Tomorrow we’ll announce that the United States is pulling its defense perimeter back to the Mid-Atlantic range and Hawaii.

    Oh please. The USA “projects it’s military power” for it’s own SELF INTEREST.

    As a general rule around the world, it might be useful if there was more “peacekeeping” rather than meddling….. (Not just by the USA too).

  • avatar
    Phil Ressler

    Now: if either Ford or the General bring the level of integration needed to put together *good* cars back within the US,

    There are plenty of good US made cars. And NAFTA-made benefits us domestically too. Just avoid the clunker models and they’ll go away. I’ve had no problem finding and buying good, durable, interesting, reliable US-made cars from the D3 since 1983, and have two US-made 2006 GM cars in my garage today that are impeccably reliable. It really is a matter within the grasp of American consumers at no extra cost, if they want to exercise their influence.

    Phil

  • avatar
    The Sinjinzen

    I think Americans have been patriotic enough to buy shi**y cars from the 3 former Big for the last 30 years. About time for them to pay back – by starting to design and produce decent cars, I’d say…

  • avatar
    Phil Ressler

    Oh please. The USA “projects it’s military power” for it’s own SELF INTEREST.

    True. But very much in part because we view the defense of the EU and Japan as part of our self-interest. The point is we would not have to be so inclusive and still defend our interests. Regardless of the reason, it is an ignorance to claim that the sheltered regions do not benefit by having some of what would normally be their own responsibility lifted.

    As a general rule around the world, it might be useful if there was more “peacekeeping” rather than meddling….. (Not just by the USA too).

    Which is what the vast majority of American military projection is — peacekeeping. The occasional hot war is not the majority of our defense spending.

    Phil

  • avatar
    stubbs

    This is so pathetic.

    The auto companies gave a few cars to NYC, so we should give them billions and billions. Their pay and benefits are so out of step with other workers, but their advocates want cab drivers to donate via taxes.

    Obama is an economic idiot (Did anyone hear him tell Chris Wallace over and over that higher taxes for the “rich” was a matter of “fairness” over and over as Wallace explained over and over that higher taxes inevitable mean lower tax revenue?) and a willing useful idiot to the unions, who did so much to elect him, so now the rest of the country has to send their dollars to creeps like Gettlefinger, who would have to consult an encyclopedia before uttering a phrase that included one iota of the truth. I’ve got news for him: Obama may not be enough. Political patronage doesn’t always pay off (enough).

  • avatar
    Jeff in NH

    The blinding arrogance displayed above makes me embarrassed to call myself American. Thank goodness this nonsense is recognized for what it is – a symptom of a degraded educational system and a culture in decline. I fear for the future…an angry, brain-damaged hippopotamus does the rest of the world no good!

  • avatar

    His heart is in the right place.

    It’s saddening to see so many pigpile on this person and on the details for how he feels. Will buying products from an American company always be demonized? Afterall it’s the mass abandonment of and demonization of American products (no matter where they happen to be assembled) that is costing him and his fellow countrymen their jobs and our country it’s industrial icons. Despite what he’s saying or how he’s saying it the emotion behind it should be palpable to anyone, at least anyone who’s seen the axe looming above their heads for reasons out of their control.

    Think for a moment, despite where the Fusion is assembled it’s sales directly support Ford which is an American company. Ford also does business globally designing, engineering and manufacturing vehicles all over the world and bringing the money home to support itself. So does GM.

    When Honda sells a US assembled Element it supports Honda in Japan, it is a Japanese company afterall and they aren’t doing business here to make life in America better or bolster the economic strength of our country. They are here to profit from us just as GM and Ford profit from foreign countries for America.

    Funny that Mexican assembly seems to be looked at as a bad thing here. I live in the United States yet my home, neighborhood and most of my suburb was built by Mexican labor. Is it so bad or so different that Ford has a US-engineered car and their product assembled in Mexico? That doesn’t magically make it a Mexican car any more so than a Camry assembled here is any less Japanese or a Toyota product.

    I have had mostly American vehicles my entire adult driving life and so has my family, none have them have been shoddy. All of them have performed their required tasks admirably and reliably. Each US automaker has always made competent vehicles to choose from (as well as some stinkers, we never purchased any of those). My folks have also dabbled in a few foreign affairs but given the hype they are pretty average cars.

    I don’t agree with everything this worker says but I understand where it’s coming from and the results of what we do as a society is certainly plain to see now more than ever. I have personally done my part owned good Ford and GM products and will continue to do so until the time comes that I will not be given that choice any longer. Then I might just buy them lightly used.

  • avatar
    BuzzDog

    It’s ironic to hear someone mention patriotism as a means of encouraging behavior.

    One thing that characterized the patriotic behavior of Americans during WWII was their willingness to make concessions, do without and sacrifice for the greater good.

    At any point in time the UAW could have scaled back demands in exchange for some assurance of the long-term viability of their employers…but they chose instead to grab as many golden eggs as possible before the goose dropped dead of exhaustion.

  • avatar
    mattstairs

    Phil Ressler, you are dead on with your posts.

    Katie Puckrik, when you say that Europe is capable of taking care of itself, are you referring to situations like the ethnic cleansing in the Balkans during the mid 1990’s? Britain, France, and Germany stood by while another holocaust happened in their own backyard. The US would rather have let Europe “handle it” but it was forced to intervene(again) and put a stop to it.

    PeteMoran, good point about the role of the USSR in WWII. People forget that the USSR did the vast majority of the fighting against the Nazis from June ’41 to June ’44. If Hitler doesn’t attack the USSR, even with US entry into the war a near certainty, Britain may have been forced to make peace with Nazi Germany.

  • avatar

    @TriShield

    Bully for his heart and bull for his head.

    It’s not just mass abandonment and demonization of American products that is causing him his job. As said elsewhere here, the UAW screwed the pooch as well. And the auto companies he and you seem to cherish outsourced (his!) jobs and kept unsustainable business models going for far too long. This is something to support?

    And of course Honda is trying to profit off of us, just like Ford and GM and Chrysler. And when Honda provides jobs here it is increasing consumer confidence and decreasing unemployment – both of which are sorely needed right now in our American economy.

    And using your logic: Mexican assembly is a good thing – assembly of your cars and your homes and your neighborhoods – even though all of that is costing Americans jobs, too?

    I’m glad you think you are doing the proper patriotic thing, and I may be missing something here (if so, please enlighten me!), but your logic seems very strained.

    The UAW worker’s emotion is palpable, indeed. But sorely misplaced.

  • avatar
    toxicroach

    OMG, people aren’t abandoning American products!
    They are abandoning second rate products. This isn’t some sort of xenophilia, its that Detroit has made and on the whole still makes sub-par cars and all the flag waving in the world isn’t enough to fool people forever, not when it’s their 25 grand on the line.

    This blame the customer bullshit is a big part of why the domestics are in trouble. CR has consistently but the domestics at the bottom of the pile for two decades now and some people still act surprised when they lose market share and people don’t believe the “this time we’ve caught up” lies. It’s stunning, it really is. Creationists aren’t the only people who can rationalize anything.

    Who knows, maybe Satan runs Consumer Reports and he plants fake reliability information to test the faithful.

  • avatar
    rkeep820

    52 states? No wonder Chrysler – GM finished dead last in CR latest quality issue! The UAW and general American laziness are two huge reasons I always check to make sure the country of assembly is either europe or japan and the % of american content is as LOW AS POSSIBLE in any car I’ve purchased the past 8 years.

    Aren’t these the same UAW girls who are buying up Sony TV’s with their buyouts as they get fired? Hypocrisy at it’s finest boyz n girls.

  • avatar
    DrivnEZ

    I’ve read all the comments above and for the most part the analysis of the original post indicates errors, perceptional inaccuracies, and a philosophy that equates the United States of America (wave flag here) with the support of the Detroit auto industries (pour billions into the hat, please.)

    Behind the rant is an angry man whose employer and union have failed. Mr. Rucker is not to be blamed that the Detroit auto companies engineered faulty product. He is not individually responsible for the tough negotiations of the union leadership that lead to salaries incommensurate with competitors.

    He is, however, unemployed. His wife was laid off from Ford four years ago and has not been able to obtain a job since. Mr. Rucker cuts lawns to support his family.

    I can understand the man’s rage. In his mind, all his problems would be solved if Americans only purchased Detroit’s products. I believe he is correct. Both he and his wife would be employed if there were no other automobile manufacturers beside Ford, GM, and Chrysler.

    Unfortunately, what he fails to understand, is that Detroit’s auto companies do not have a stellar reputation in the 51 (sic.) states outside of Michigan.

    For the past nine years I have driven a diesel powered automobile for which I paid 20k and recently sold for 8k. During that nine year period I changed the oil, purchased tires, replaced air filters, and performed other routine preventative maintenance. The only failures were covered under warranty. My previous experiences with GM, Chrysler and Ford fell short of this level of reliability.

    I feel for the average US auto worker in Detroit. But it is not the American consumer that has let them down. It is the management and union leadership that have destroyed the industry for which Mr. Rucker works.

  • avatar
    stubbs

    During the 70s, 80s, and 90s I travelled a lot in my job. I rented cars about a dozen times a year. You could count on the rattles, windshield wipers that didn’t work, car door locks that didn’t work, and other shoddy workmanship I would encounter on the American brand cars I rented. On the other hand, my Honda Prelude, for which I paid eight thousand dollars in 1982 required only brake pads for the one hundred thousand plus miles I drove it, and it never had a problem of any sort.

    Companies have an accounting item called “good will.” Detroit burned its good will up and now wants you to pay the price.

  • avatar
    John Horner

    The 9/11 piece of that email has been going around the net in various versions for at least seven years, and is a little truth mixed with a lot of bs.

    Snopes has a detailed write up on an earlier version:

    http://www.snopes.com/rumors/automakers.asp

    On the broader issues, Phil Ressler has it right. Anyone who thinks Japan, Taiwan, Singapore and South Korea would have enjoyed the economic renaissance they have in the post war era without the US Pacific fleet guarding their flanks (not to mention the US Nuclear arsenal) doesn’t understand much about geopolitical realities. How long do you think Taiwan would be independent if the US said it wouldn’t get involved?

    If you don’t think Stalin would have gobbled up Western Europe if America had simply packed up and gone home in the 1950s and 60s, you haven’t paid attention. Surely you are aware of the Berlin airlift. That wasn’t a European effort, it was Kennedy’s doing. How do you think the Cold War would have turned out had the US made it clear it was only concerned with matters inside its own borders? Was it a European who demanded “Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall?”

  • avatar
    Lynchenstein

    True. But very much in part because we view the defense of the EU and Japan as part of our self-interest. The point is we would not have to be so inclusive and still defend our interests. Regardless of the reason, it is an ignorance to claim that the sheltered regions do not benefit by having some of what would normally be their own responsibility lifted.

    It could also be that providing defence to the EU, Japan and other countries like Canada is the means to an end. The end may be for the U.S. to encourage reduced defensive capabilities in these countries to a point lower than their self interest would otherwise dictate. It seems logical to me that weaker allies tend to be more obedient.

    Taking the easy route of U.S. protection and not investing in their own defence is in fact also subjecting themselves to the will of the U.S.

    I think that citizens of the U.S. in general see their country as a force of good and I agree for the most part. However, I believe that the U.S. is shrewdly weakening its allies just enough by keeping them relatively fat and happy so that the U.S. can maintain dominance over them, but not so weak that they are not still usefull when the time comes to call in some favours.

    Who knew that the posting of Mr. Rucker’s well reasoned diatribe would spark so many fun posts?! It’s like reading Fark, but with fewer yahoos.

    ../c

  • avatar
    KixStart

    Since we didn’t (and still don’t) want Germany and Japan re-arming with nuclear weapons but we wanted the frontier against the USSR and global communism to be safely away from our own borders, mostly the projection of US power sure looks like self-interest to me.

    Horner, I think you’ll find Truman was President at the time of the Berlin airlift.

  • avatar
    928sport

    Lets sum this up, who give’s a crap anymore about who buys what? we are long past that debate, If anyone here thinks it’s not American to buy a foreign car I ask the question? how many products do you own that are not made in the good old USA in your home? this country is doomed and to believe it’s not you are fooling yourself. Lets move on now,

  • avatar
    mtypex

    I believe in Japanese women and Acuras. But I’m back in Michigan a few times a year. I want all the BK workers that Granmole trumpeted to keep their jobs. Come to think of it, I love Whoppers.

  • avatar
    Luther

    “Was it a European who demanded “Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall?””

    I think if Europe held a referendum before the 1980s to join the USSR, the European people would have voted in favor of it. It was amazing to me to meet so many people over there that were disappointed that the USSR colapsed (They now have their EU-SSR)…What would you expect from people who allow their government to steal 70% of their earnings.

  • avatar
    don1967

    If there’s one thing I can’t stand it’s being lectured by a UAW worker about standing up for American car companies. The only interest these people have in GM, Ford and Chrysler is to suck the blood out of them.

    After my one and only GM product nearly killed me (twice) with its defective brakes, I will damn well spend my hard-earned money on whatever I choose. No amount of high-pressure b.s. from a union goon will change my mind.

  • avatar
    DisturbedDriver

    I’ll give you reality.

    You don’t get any points for calling me unpatriotic just because I drive a foreign car. I’m just your average educated American john who uses a magical tool called the internet to frequently research any big-ticket items I need to buy.

    Among those items, a car does not qualify as an item that I decide to choose among many others solely on the basis of patriotism which btw is an overrated idea in the age of globalization. It is a form of transportation that I am dependent upon to get me to distant locations. Because of this, I cannot count on driving a car that will break down constantly if the mechanical fixes are going to cost me too much in money and time taken for the repairs. Thus by pure logic I will settle for cars that have good reliability records.

    Sadly American cars by virtue of their reputation fail to win my trust in this regard. If the American car market is a barrel, Big 3 have consistently produced low-quality cars that fall at the bottom. So if you’re going to whine and blame the boogyman foreign carmakers, then go by an old saying: “If you can’t beat ‘em, join them.”

    Also Europe no longer views America as the savior. Sorry fellas, but WWII ended about 60 years ago. 60 years later, we have a new generation of people who’re willing to move onto bigger things and look to the future. I can’t go to Europe and expect people to cheer me on and throw flowers and wrap laurels around my head. I don’t get any hot French girls throwing themselves in front of me (I have to actually approach them and talk to them to get their attention). It doesn’t work that way anymore.
    Go to war with a country a fraction of our size without proper reason and we get flamed. But I digress. There’s no point in nostalgically looking to the past when America was once the world’s symbol of freedom, capitalism, high standards of living, and hot blonde chicks. Also Europe isn’t a ghetto anymore. Try visiting France sometime. Or the UK. Things have changed.

    The future is not in cars that break down 1 month after they leave the lot, stale patriotism cards, or unwarranted feelings of self-entitlement. The future is in fuel-efficient cars that will last a while and have low maintenance costs. If foreign carmakers take over the American car market, so be it. My family has yet to have an American car grace our garage. 3 Japanese cars and 2 Korean cars have sat in our garage and driveway.

    P.S. America has 50 states, not 52. Go to school.

    P.S.S. There aren’t any automobile makers with central headquarters based in Taiwan.

    P.S.S.S. I hope the Big 3 don’t receive anymore taxpayer funded bailout funds. Let them file for Chapter 11. They’ll get the loans they need to restructure and cut any *unnecessary* costs. UAW whiners can’t demand retirement by 49 and $75/hour wages in a country where 30% of the population has a degree. My dad’s 62 and still working. You can do better.

  • avatar
    ronin

    I don’t recall India chipping in either.

    Yet you carmakers felt free to dump American IT staff and give jobs to foreign non-immigrants. You dumped customer support and did the same.

    It was not the car companies that won the big one WWII. It was steel. It was steel that was used to build the cars. Steel from Gary, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Youngstown, Bethlehem, etc etc etc. Yet you carmakers saw fit to reject those towns, and plunge those cities into depression, as you instead purchased steel from Japan and China. I don’t think Japan and China helped you win that big one.

    You carmakers are unAmerican traitors, and deserve to go out of business.

  • avatar
    ronin

    It’s cute when the UAW waves the American flag while at the same time demanding obsolete Soviet-style statist support for itself.

  • avatar
    dpeppers

    Hmmmm….. haven’t read many of the responses in detail (same “i’ll do as I damn please….frickin’ domestic crap being foisted upon us!). See you in the breadline. As far as the “lucky soul” who can observe his country from abroad and take potshots…good luck gettin” another whopper when BK bk’s.

    Oh yeah …by the way I’m also a Toyota dealer, along with domestic representaion.

  • avatar
    Michal

    “Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.” – Samuel Johnson – April 7, 1775.

    Mr Rucker suggests “TRUE” Americans buy GM/Ford/Chrysler. Does that make everyone else driving a foreign branded car (but possibly built in the USA) a fake American? Xenophobia stirs and awakens in any recession.

    Mr Rucker should also brush up on modern warfare, with his suggestion that World War 3 will (will? wtf!) be fought with tanks and jeeps. No Mr Rucker, it will be avoided at all costs due to nuclear weapons.

  • avatar
    Mike S

    There’s a bit of revisionist history going on here (in the original article and some comments). Imperial powers have tended to build buffers between themselves and real or potential enemies. Implying that the U.S. supported its European and Asian allies because there was some sort of philanthropic motive is a little like saying that the Romans took large parts of Europe because they wanted to teach everyone how to take a hot bath.

    During the early part of WW2 (prior to Pearl Harbour), the U.S. lent Britain 50 mothballed WW1 destroyers under lend-lease. Although Roosevelt and the U.S. military recognized that war with the Axis was inevitable, provision of the ships was not a fight of “good against evil”. The equipment was traded for long-term leases on military bases in the Caribbean and elsewhere.

    After Pearl Harbour, U.S. military supplies to Britain increased significantly but at considerable cost. The amount owed by Britain was reduced in 1946 and the interest rate fixed at 2% but the last payment (of $83M) was not made until 2006. Part of Britain’s post-war decline is attributable to the devastation of its infrastructure, repayment of loans to the U.S. and the inability to obtain meaningful compensation from its former enemies.

    Once the U.S. entered the war, the “arsenal of democracy” kicked into high gear due, in part, to its immunity from attack. Although there was a strike by mineworkers in 1943, there were no strikes by the UAW during the war despite bitter complaints by union members. The strikes were averted through agreements giving the union concessions which set the stage for the excesses of future years.

    Despite the rhetoric, policies and decisions made by governments and other organizations regardless of national origin are based on power, money and self-interest. Suggestions to the contrary are simply naive or intentionally misleading.

  • avatar
    golden2husky

    At any point in time the UAW could have scaled back demands in exchange for some assurance of the long-term viability of their employers…but they chose instead to grab as many golden eggs as possible before the goose dropped dead of exhaustion.….

    Good point, but why should they give up anything when upper management Hoovered up massive profit for themselves. And it was management that made the choice to waste SUV profits during the fat years on buying tired European brands that sucked resources and returned nothing but debt. I’m no UAW fan but why should the guy on the line take it w/o lubricant when the Ivory tower gets new marble hallways?

  • avatar
    johnny ro

    DrivenEZ- I think gets first place among entries above.

    Leaves out global politics, history, american imperialism, Soviet casualties vs american arms, economics, US corporate mindset, and average American (present company excepted) bottomless ignorance and apathy with regard to the above.

    Correctly pins blame for Mr Rucker’s predicament on D3 mgt and secondarily the union.

    What Mr. Rucker does not appear thankful for is that he seems to have ridden the wave of decent paying uneducated union lower middle class existence further than most. …er, most outside government employ.

    xxxxxxxx

    Now for my own political mush- WWII? Soviets killed the Wehrmacht, not us, we fought on the sidelines. Yes, Anzio was a minor skirmish, a mere scuffle although Italy was a major sideline. We pinned down 1 million Nazis there and they kept another million in AA defense throughout Europe. We supplied Soviets with the best damn trucks and endless second rate or third rate other stuff. D-Day was just in time to get us to Berlin before the Soviets and secure western Europe from them after Werhmacht was destroyed (we stopped and let them have Berlin on purpose).

    Japan did not matter as to ultimate outcome of the war. Pure strategic sideshow, although they did murder 30 million Chinese. Japan’s entire strategy was to take what they could then negotiate a peace with us. They never had any faint dream of their own to actually beat us.

    Our presence in other countries is a mix of good and pure evil. Depends on the country and time. We seem to be directly responsible for Somalian pirates for example, by toppling their Muslim government which Bush deemed to be terrorist, letting chaos reign, whereas we do keep the military umbrella in place over western Europe and Japan both of whom we really really do not want rearming on a mass scale which they could and if they did well I think they might leapfrog us since we are wedded to so many obsolete military strategies.

    Still I am US person and glad of it. John Birmingham, Australian, recently wrote “Without Warning”. It is a believable story of what happens to rest of world if the US disappears. Nothing good comes of it except in the long run the environment is better off.

    …and nothing below the xxxxx has anything to do with Detroit or Mr Rucker.

  • avatar
    Cicero

    ronin :
    March 1st, 2009 at 7:18 am

    It’s cute when the UAW waves the American flag while at the same time demanding obsolete Soviet-style statist support for itself.

    Statism used to be obsolete. We have a new administration now and it’s made a big comeback.

  • avatar
    Chgomatt

    I always oversimplify,I know,but it’s how I get through things.
    UAW guy..You thrived on Capitalism when it worked.
    You take the fall when it doesn’t.Remember that line from Wharton? “You were Regina Beaufort when he covered you with Jewels and you must remain Regina Beaufort when he covers you with shame” (Not totally accurate,but there it is.)
    Build better cars and I’ll buy one. Thats the goal for Detroit. Do or die. Focus.
    Phil..Thanks for being way more articulate in print then I could ever be.
    And that Katie chick..Why does everyone assume that we care what they think of us? I don’t.
    Hate us,love us..whatever. I don’t require another nations approval,respect,awe or even attention. Think of me as a 3rd world iconoclatic barbarian if you want. I’m not preoccupied with you in any way.Hate us? Your issue..Stay home.
    Bottom line..WW11 was a different universe..a different game with different players and has no relevance to todays economy.BTW..I know that “Doomed to repeat it” thing..Just don’t see it applying here.

  • avatar

    Pertaining to Katrina

    Toyota
    On September 1, 2005, Toyota’s U.S. headquarters announced:
    Toyota Motor Corporation of Japan, Toyota Motor Sales USA, Toyota Financial Services, Toyota Motor North America, and Toyota Motor Manufacturing North America would collectively be donating $2,000,000 to the American Red Cross.
    Employee contributions to the American Red Cross will be fully matched by Toyota Motor Sales USA, Toyota Financial Services, Toyota Motor North America, Toyota Motor Manufacturing North America, and Toyota Technical Center.
    Employee contributions to the Salvation Army will be fully matched by Toyota Technical Center.
    Employee contributions to the Friedkin Disaster Relief Fund will be fully matched by Toyota

    American Honda
    On September 2, 2005, American Honda pledged:
    to donate $5,000,000 to the American Red Cross — Disaster Relief Fund
    to make available “portable generators, water pumps, all-terrain vehicles, personal watercraft, off-road motorcycles, and vehicles to agencies working in the affected areas.” 1
    to match the personal donations of its associates, contractors, temporary employees, and retirees on a dollar-for-dollar basis, with no total limit to contributions.
    to provide payment extensions and other accommodations for Honda customers affected by Hurricane Katrina.

    Ford Motor Company
    On September 2, 2005, the Ford Motor Company:
    Along with United Auto Workers, donated $100,000 to the Red Cross.
    Will match employee contributions to the Red Cross’s Disaster Relief Fund.
    Is providing temporary living expenses for 22 of its employees who were displaced by Hurricane Katrina.

    General Motors
    On September 1, 2005, General Motors announced:
    The GM Foundation and GMAC will be making a combined immediate cash donation of $400,000 to the American Red Cross Hurricane 2005 Relief Fund.
    It has pledged to match up to $250,000 in donations to the Hurricane 2005 Relief Fund from GM and GMAC employees through the company’s Global Aid Disaster Relief website.
    They are “making available more than 150 vehicles — including HUMMERS, full-size SUVs, trucks, and vans — for use by the American Red Cross in relief efforts throughout the affected areas.” 3
    That it has donated $50,000 cash to the Red Cross chapter in Shreveport, Louisiana so that they may provide shelter to Gulf Coast evacuees.

    DaimlerChrysler
    On September 1, 2005, DaimlerChrysler announced that:
    the Chrysler Group’s Philanthropic Fund will immediately donate $150,000 to the American Red Cross and $200,000 to local charities.
    DaimlerChrysler Services will donate $200,000 to the American Red Cross and match employee contributions up to $50,000.
    Mercedes-Benz USA will make a $250,000 donation to the American Red Cross.
    Freightliner Trucks, a DaimlerChrysler subsidiary, will donate $100,000 to the American Red Cross.
    DaimlerChrysler will also match up to $150,000 in contributions made to the American Red Cross by employees, dealers, and retirees.
    MBUSA agreed to work with the Red Cross to convert part of the plant’s training center into a temporary emergency shelter for storm evacuees who were fleeing the Gulf Coast

  • avatar
    Mendicant Monitor

    Lots to write about regarding this submission IF it was truly from a UAW worker – which I doubt.

    It is so stereotypical of a blue collar worker, it could have been penned by the immortal Archie B. in his basement office at 704 Hauser Street.

  • avatar
    johnny ro

    New statism did not commence with Obama, it commenced with GWB who was doing whatever it was he did while in private, while his people bailed out Wall St, the banks and Detroit.

    Remember, it was Bush who kicked off the bailout of Detroit. Obama is just continuing that effort.

  • avatar
    Aegea

    “My country right or wrong” is immoral.

    “My country’s always right” is just stupid.

  • avatar
    charleywhiskey

    jonny ro
    “Soviets killed the Wehrmacht, not us, we fought on the sidelines.”

    Another reading of history would reveal that the USSR was only able to resist the German army because of the massive supply of US manufactured weapons delivered in convoys across the North Atlantic to Murmansk with as much as a 90% loss rate due to U-boat depredations while much of the German machinery of war in eastern Europe ran out of fuel and spare parts due to continuous daylight B-24 and B-17 bomber raids on factories and oil fields, also with as much as 90% loss rates. Some sidelines.

    But of course that was then and this is now. I’ve had some really good American made cars over the years, but these days, such things are pretty hard to find. Maybe the UAW could provide us with a list of American made cars to help us with our shopping.

  • avatar
    i2blind

    This is just silly. What your proposing is what is really unamerican, it’s economic fascism. Build better cars cheaper and you will be rewarded. The big 3 must learn to be more agile to adapt to market conditions. The union must learn to adapt as well.

  • avatar
    carsRock

    http://www.jdmuniverse.com/forums/its-there/43869-american-honda-responds-hurricane-katrina.html

  • avatar
    BuzzDog

    @i2blind: The big 3 must learn to be more agile to adapt to market conditions. The union must learn to adapt as well.

    Don’t you understand? Adapting and compromise is passe; it’s now considered to be a sign of weakness.

    Unfortunately, people forget that compromise and political moderation are the hallmarks of democracy, with fascism on one end of the spectrum and communism on the other:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTFetpO3Dho

    Back to the WWII analogy, that era was a perfect example of how people worked together to share hard work and sacrifices to ensure the enduring greatness of the United States. But years of distrust between the automakers, the UAW and the taxpayers make it difficult – if not impossible – to effect a viable, long-term solution.

  • avatar

    Hello?

    WW III will be nuclear – forgot about that? Cars won’t even start.

  • avatar
    awg17

    Just another show of ignorance and rabblerousing by the UAW. Toyota and Honda contributed $5mil. each to Katrina aid if you care to Google it.

  • avatar
    BuzzDog

    @Bertel Schmitt: WW III will be nuclear…

    I’m reminded of a quote that was repeated by a political science professor I had in college:

    “I don’t know what types of weapons will be used to fight World War III, but I do know the types that will be used to fight World War IV: Sticks and stones.”

  • avatar
    Phil Ressler

    Imperial powers have tended to build buffers between themselves and real or potential enemies.

    True, and this is good policy. Lack of buffers between conflicting states in Europe contributed to the frequency of titanic war in that continent’s long history of violence.

    Implying that the U.S. supported its European and Asian allies because there was some sort of philanthropic motive is a little like saying that the Romans took large parts of Europe because they wanted to teach everyone how to take a hot bath.

    The proactive effort by the United States after WWII to instigate a remaking of the world was new and magnanimous, while still having been a matter of self-interest. We retreated after WWI and were unable to prevail over our European allies to forego grinding postwar retribution against the former Central Powers. Prior to WWII, most victorious states would have tried to freeze the conditions of dominance that the US enjoyed in August 1945. The American policy, which took a few years to work out as the true nature of our relationship with the USSR and the true dysfunction of devastated Europe were clarifying, was far-sighted and a blend of selfish pragmatism, American idealism, and magnanimity. “Present at the Creation.” and “The Wise Men” reconstruct the mindsets and maneuvering behind the making of a new international architecture. That the Marshall Plan and other related initiatives had self-interest origins does not strip them of their intrinsically generous nature.

    Despite the rhetoric, policies and decisions made by governments and other organizations regardless of national origin are based on power, money and self-interest. Suggestions to the contrary are simply naive or intentionally misleading.

    The American domestic tension between pragmatic foreign policy and a strong recurring moral basis for our involvement in the world, politically and militarily, drives some inconsistency in our behavior. But there is a tendency for the American public to need a moral basis for foreign policy to win sustained support. We took more of the world under our wing after WWII in the face-off against the Soviets than we would have objectively had to, and we opposed reconstitution of the pre-war colonial systems of our closest allies. We put more direct resources into helping both enemies and friends back on their feet after WWII than any prior victor in history, and opened the comparatively immense wealth of our domestic market to the rest of the world at a time when others were protectionist.

    We also encouraged the unification of Europe, going all the way back to support for the Schuman Plan and the EU’s seedling, the European Coal & Steel Community. An imperial power would have instead worked to keep Europe atomized and weak.

    The Marshall Plan’s conditions for American aid forced the squabbling European states to settle their many differences over postwar life and work more closely together. Marshall and Congress also neatly knitted together the interests and driving sentiments of domestic factions who were split between need for American policy being idealistic and generous, and the demand for practical solutions. No doubt, the Moscow-directed Czech coup in February 1948 galvanized Congress to end debate and fund Marshall’s Economic Recovery Act. Sure, the program was both anti-communist and humanitarian but nothing about its pragmatic aspects negates Marshall’s own case:

    “Our policy is directed not against any country or doctrine but against hunger, poverty, desperation and chaos.”

    – Secretary of State George C. Marshall describing the goals of the Economic Recovery Plan, June 5, 1947

    We could have left 6-10mm troops in Europe and Japan, and front-lined our immense stash of hardware, and most imperial powers before then would have undertaken that sort of massive occupation and prolonged governance. We didn’t. The combined approach of assisted reconstruction for friend and foe, opening of our market as an engine for global wealth, and military readiness with judicious forward projection of power continues to this day and there’s no great power precedent for it.

    Even when we stumble, as with the post-war occupation of Iraq, we will nevertheless turn the country back over to its people and leave, once again demonstrating to a skeptical world that we didn’t go for oil; we didn’t go to put people under our thumb; we didn’t go to stay. We did go for reasons having nothing to do with WMDs (bad marketing decision on Bush’s part) and much of the motive was self-interested. It was nevertheless also an effort to expand the sphere of free will.

    Bringing this back to cars, one doesn’t have to — and shouldn’t — go back to Detroit’s role in armaments and military vehicle production during WWII to justify the economic leverage of domestically-owned manufacturing and applying personal purchasing power to its output. Leave WWII out of it. Your own interests today argue for buying a car from among the competitive cars in the D3’s catalog, if you’re American. Detroit was paid for WWII and any claim it could possibly make on your gratitude expired decades ago.

    The US has been and remains a new kind of great power. You have to ask yourself: Which country and its operating style would you rather have in our position?

    Phil

  • avatar
    dougfixit

    How can I buy an American car?

    Let’s see

    1. Go to work at an automotive supplier.
    2. Watch as supplier is repeatedly pounded upon by OEM for price cuts; but OEM does nothing about their own internal waste.
    3. Listen as OEM’s demand that we buy and source our stuff from China (can you say “world class pricing”?)
    4. Watch as more and more engineering and design work is outsourced to the 3rd world.
    5. Get laid off

    In short, if the Big 3 won’t “Buy American”, then why should I?

  • avatar
    zenith

    What a tough crowd!

    Rucker probably does know that there are only 50 States but committed a typo.

    And even if he doesn’t, who can blame him? D.C. and Puerto Rico are kinda, sorta, States.The reason D.C. isn’t is that the “red” states don’t want them to be and enough of the “blue” states are ambivalent that it ain’t gonna happen.

    Puerto Ricans themselves are much more divided on statehood than D.C. residents and the same red/blue condition that keeps D.C. out would exist even if a clear majority of Puerto Ricans passionately wanted statehood.

    Rucker was probably shuttled onto the “slow track” by his school system way back in grade school by so-called educators who figured he only had to be literate enough for the “jobs for life” @ the local plant.

    I myself have had to overcome a high school that
    only educated to the low standards of the packing industry as it existed in the ’60s.

    Though I pissed and moaned about the draft, my “joining the Navy to avoid the Army” exposed me to a culture that believed that I could do more with myself than gutting pigs for life or, as it turned out, til the govt. started looking the other way @ illegal immigrants who could gut pigs for 1/3 the wages of a legal immigrant or a US citizen.

    Just as bigoted as Rucker, but at the other extreme, are you idiots who boast that you’ve never even looked at, let alone owned, a domestic car.

    The Japanese have made their share of rusted-out-by-the-final-payment stinkers, too. And don’t get me started on VW!

    The foreigners aren’t unequivocal angels and Detroit isn’t an unequivocal Satan, either.

  • avatar
    Kiwi_Mark_in_Aussie

    Phil Resseler

    The US does not believe in a Free World Market unless it suits them…They have consistently and constantly refused a Free Trade deal with NZ (the fact thay we even need to have a Free Trade deal clearly indicates that the US does not believe or support Free Trade)

    The Steel Tariff is not the only example…try anything produced on the farm for starters…

    America is not the only country to have defended the free World – the rest of Western Europe was their as well except in those places where we werent defending the free world but sticking up for Despots and Murderers – Pinochet in chile – the Kymher Rouge to name but two – seriously do they teach History in the US or is it like in the old Soviet Union where you only get the whitewashed version…

    And now you go around invading countries without reason or thought…yeah thats real helpfull to the whole concept of liberty and freedom…

    England only recovered because they became part of the EU – it had sod all to do with the US or its economy…

    Its time some americans got off their arrogant high horses and realised if you actually did as you preached then you wouldnt have done half the things you did…and the rest of the world is sick of you wanking on about how great you are and how we should live ours when we can clearly see you are not and we are actually doing just fine thank you very much…you are one of the most hypocritical countries on earth…

  • avatar
    BuzzDog

    Kiwi Mark, I’m not sure what I find more insulting: The implication that all citizens of the United States think in the same manner (and by the way, we just had a sweeping change in the party that controls our government, if you hadn’t heard), or the way you politely ignored the fact that hundreds of thousands – if not millions – of people risk their lives every year for the privilege of living in the United States.

    Please remember that not all of us are isolationists, and that we are quite proud of the fact that when we see a need for change – regardless of which party is currently in power – we have the right to make it happen. Peacefully. Sure, it’s not a perfect country, but in some ways you can’t fault us for being proud of our contributions to freedom around the world. That being said, I agree with you that constant mentions of WWII are a bit tiring in 2009…but no cause for a sweeping attack on the motives of all Americans.

  • avatar
    rx8totheendoftime

    So where does this leave the American companies that collaborated with Nazi Germany prior to December 7, 1941, such as Ford, IBM, Chrysler and General Motors?

    Logically, anyone who enlisted in September, 1939 and didn’t get home until 1946 – like my father did – or anyone who survived Auschwitz and Sobibor – like my father in law and mother in law – should never buy the product of these companies, forgetting about the rest of us, of course.

    The arguments made by the UAW worker are largely illogical. There are economic reasons for saving the companies, for buying their product, etc., but using historical corporate behaviour as part of the reasoning is a dangerous tactic, especially for the ill-informed….and let’s not get started on Henry Ford’s abysmal history of favouring Hitler or his public approval of the famous anti-semitic tract, ‘The Protocols of the Elders of Zion’.

  • avatar
    don1967

    Just as bigoted as Rucker, but at the other extreme, are you idiots who boast that you’ve never even looked at, let alone owned, a domestic car.

    Please. Show me ONE pro-import idiot who never owned an American car, and I’ll show you a hundred pro-domestic idiots who don’t even know where Importia is on the map.

    My first car was a GM POS, and it gets full credit for the excellent Honda, Nissan and Hyundai vehicles which followed. Despite this experience I have approached GM and Ford with an open mind each time I have been in the market, and each time they have lost by virtue of their own crapiness.

  • avatar
    Strippo

    I’m half Importian, on my mother’s side. Dad’s parents were so disappointed. Their generation grew up in a world where Importians were always considered second class. They’ll never change.

  • avatar
    Bridge2far

    This is easy fodder for the pro import crowd found here. Easy to destroy the “dumb American auto worker”.

  • avatar
    BMW325I

    Too long to read.

  • avatar
    Phil Ressler

    The US does not believe in a Free World Market unless it suits them…They have consistently and constantly refused a Free Trade deal with NZ (the fact thay we even need to have a Free Trade deal clearly indicates that the US does not believe or support Free Trade)

    No country is pure on free trade and I expect someone from a country having difficulty getting a bi-lateral agreement settled to have a beef. This is incidental and doesn’t refute the general committment the US has had and continues to have toward free trade.

    The Steel Tariff is not the only example…try anything produced on the farm for starters…

    The disproportionate political influence of agricultural interests in virtually every agriculturally important country has impeded full fair trade in the sector. The US is no exception, but it remains a multinational political problem throughout the tech-intensive agricultural countries. We need to do better.

    America is not the only country to have defended the free World – the rest of Western Europe was their as well except in those places where we werent defending the free world but sticking up for Despots and Murderers – Pinochet in chile – the Kymher Rouge to name but two – seriously do they teach History in the US or is it like in the old Soviet Union where you only get the whitewashed version…

    Europe has contributed to the defense of liberty. However, Europe hasn’t contributed its fair share, commensurate to its economic clout, to sorting out international problems where real resources or human endangerment are required, in…well…generations. In the interwar period, they refused to stand up to a re-arming Germany in their own back yard. After the war, we carried the ball for several decades against Soviet expansionist totalitarianism. In the Balkans during the mid 1990s again Europe fiddled and fidgeted, then lobbied the US to vault the Atlantic to intervene. Europe tagged us for not intervening in Rwanda. When we were considering going into Iraq we tapped the EU on the shoulder for air cargo help but the entire EU only had four C5 heavy air transports. The USAF had 126. The examples go on ad infinitum. We don’t mind so much that the EU is only capable of doing less in the realm of violence when violence is necessary, but we do mind when the EU denies its weakness and resents our strength.

    And now you go around invading countries without reason or thought…yeah thats real helpfull to the whole concept of liberty and freedom…

    The US hasn’t invaded *any* country without “reason or thought.” However, you might not always agree with the reasons. Even our own people aren’t always in agreement. If you’re referring to Iraq, we had our reasons. They weren’t the reasons publicly promoted and you still may not agree, but that’s a different thread.

    England only recovered because they became part of the EU – it had sod all to do with the US or its economy…

    The UK improved its decrepit postware economic situation *long* before it became entangled in the EU or its predecessor organizations. The US market was a prime source of hard currency for Britain in the 1950s before the rest of Europe was on its feet. You’re seriously misinformed or you are limiting your awareness to the period since perhaps 1990.

    It’s time some Americans got off their arrogant high horses and realised if you actually did as you preached then you wouldnt have done half the things you did…and the rest of the world is sick of you wanking on about how great you are and how we should live ours when we can clearly see you are not and we are actually doing just fine thank you very much…you are one of the most hypocritical countries on earth…

    I’m sure there are arrogant Americans. I just don’t know them. We know we’re not perfect in the execution of our ideals, but we have a pretty good track record of doing well for both ourselves and others. Good enough to stand up for it. I’m not interested in telling any foreign country citizen how they should live their lives. We want you to do as you think is best. But if you’re in the sphere of liberty in the world and think that you’re doing fine, and that was possible and will continue unabated without the US playing its role in the world, you’re not recognizing the luxury we aid and abet you living.

    Phil

  • avatar
    Phil Ressler

    England only recovered because they became part of the EU – it had sod all to do with the US or its economy…

    I must add that the Economic Recovery Act of 1948 — aka the initial funding of The Marshall Plan — was directed to Europe and allocated $13.5B (about $115B in 2008 dollars) through 1952. Britain was a direct and indirect beneficiary, and Europe became a functioning economy sooner because of it. The program was expanded to add additional aid to countries inside and outside Europe, beyond this initial allocation. Even by today’s terms this was real money no other country was remotely in a position to provide, and was further supplemented by the hard currency earning opportunity afforded by the US opening its markets.

    Phil

  • avatar
    Kurt.

    Where is all the money that the Big 3 made over the last century? Complaining about losing retirement? Shouldn’t said companies have prepared for an aging population? I bet the transplants are.

    No, your bastion of Americana buried it’s profits and mortgaged it’s future to the teeth. It cared nothing for you, your families, your rights or your futures and happily fired/laid you off to open facilities in lower wage areas (i.e. Mexico, Bazil, Korea etc.) to make a profit. Talk about misplaced loyalties.

    And to support Mr. Ressler, the US was able to rebuld Europe with the Economic Recovery Act of 1948, $13.5B (about $115B in 2008 dollars) initially. Why is it more expensive to rebuild just 2 companies?

  • avatar
    tigeraid

    Unbelievable. This guy apparently did read any history books, or he’d know about all the money Henry Ford fed into the Nazi party prior to them grabbing major power in the 40s.

  • avatar

    someone please send this moron to college so he can take Economics-100.

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