E85 Boondoggle Of The Day: Bioethanol Hits Rock Bottom

Come on let's get real. Ethanol is a fine fuel. So long as it is being burned in an optimized engine. #1 Hygroscopic- People, realize your fuel tank is a closed system. It will not absorb moisture from the air unless you are still using a non-emission controlled car (pre 1974 I think). Ethanol burns with a colorless flame unless it is denatured with hydrocarbons, which all fuel ethanol is required to be. The lack of energy value can be made up with increasing compression ratio and advancing timing making the engine much more efficient (ethanol specific car). Ethanol from fossil fuels will someday run out. #2.1 correct, but ignoring the by-products 2.2 Fuel is of so little value? Why do countries fight wars over it? I understand it is worth less than gold, but come on now. 2.3 using a vacuum still reduces the energy substantially. And by leaving the ethanol as 96% ethanol and 4% water (dedicated ethanol engine) energy to distill is cut by 33%. 2.4 It costs $1 for every gallon/year output to build an ethanol plant. We have spent over 500 billion in Iraq & 700 billion on Wall St. If we used that cash to build ethanol plants (ignoring the feedstocks)we would have the capacity to displace all the worlds gasoline. #3 my goal would be to set up an energy system that no longer requires using fossil fuels that someday run out. #4 I love ethanol from waste. We need more of it. We also need ethanol from as many other diverse feed stocks as possible. Weeds in the non agriculture land in the southwest are also a great source for ethanol. About the study: No value was given to existing infrastructures. We have millions of cast iron engine blocks ready to burn ethanol. To replace all those with copper motors would be quite an energy challenge in itself.

PabloKoh, That's a fairly well reasoned reply and one worthy of further discussion. #1: An ethanol only engine, while technically possible, would present a HUGE risk to both the maker and the buyer. How many of those would sell in the current market with gasoline significantly cheaper than ethanol? Where is the E100 infrastructure going to come from? Notice how well the E85 infestation is going. Who's going to pay for it? In spite of our elected offistutes' actions, Uncle Sam does not have unlimited funds. #2.1: Interesting that you raise the issue of byproducts. I believe they are already beginning to export the byproducts, having saturated the US market for that kind of feed. We use a lot more fuel than food. Further increases in ethanol production will completely destroy the value of the byproducts, as has already happened for glycerol from biodiesel... #2.2: I must have blinked. Who is fighting a war expressly over fuel? I know Dick Cheney has his ideas. But let's not pretend the man is main stream. #2.3: True, though it also takes energy to create a vacuum. If it's so much cheaper, why aren't the E85 producers doing it? #2.4: Nobody is arguing Iraq was a wise thing to do. Personally, I never supported it. Likewise, I don't support the bailout of Wall Street (or Detroit). But even if you did support all of those: four wrongs don't make a right, any more than two do. #3: I agree. We don't need ethanol for that. In fact, I would say we can't afford to waste precious resources on ethanol... #4: But you can do so much better than ethanol from waste. And the technology is further developed that cellulosic ethanol, they just don't know it in Washington (you're not surprized, are you?): 4.1 Range Fuels is building a plant in Soperton, GA to convert forestry wastes into "mixed" alcohols (a mixture of ethanol, propanol, butanol and maybe a few others). [s]For political reasons[/s] To qualify for the maximum federal subsidy Range Fuels is misnaming their technology cellulosic ethanol. It is nothing of the sort, as a visit to their technical page would show: no fermentation or distillation. The important part is this: once the subsidies run out and Range Fuels have to generate real profits, they will maximize the process to produce butanol (completely miscible in gasoline, pretty much same properties, can be transported in gasoline pipelines and used in unmodified vehicles). You wait and see... #4.2: In Freiberg, Germany, CHOREN is building a plant that would convert forestry waste into diesel (that's right, the self same fuel some of us use every day, except that it's cleaner: no sulfur or aromatics, and of course, it's renewable). Technically feasible. Don't ask about the cost, now that oil is at ~$45/bbl... #4.3: In Carthage, MO is a TDP plant that converts waste lipids (fats and oils) into clean diesel. It would help, obviously, if they stopped lying about it's abilities (can only convert lipids into fuel, not all municipal waste; the product is not ready for your diesel engine, I apologize; nowhere close to 85% efficiency), but in loose terms the process works, as Discover magazine keeps reminding us (Note to Discover: ever noticed the limitations of this technology?). Apologies to the good people of Carthage about the odor. And hey, not that long ago $80/bbl looked like a steal... As 4.1 shows, it is not (quite) impossible to replace gasoline and diesel, but you either need something that is significantly better (read: cheaper) or you need something that can be blended with the existing fuels (at all ratios) so that you take advantage of the existing infrastructure, that you mentioned, without the need to replace anything.