Stay sober. Even if you did not yet develop into being an alcoholic yet, it sounds like you were well on the way to dependency.

The first thing alcohol does to many people is numb the part of the brain we use for judgement. Most everyone gets the judgement dulled, but for some it’s a real numb job. If you are one of those people, you are highly at risk. One day you have another drink, and bam, next thing you know you just HAVE to have another drink. Congratulations on finding one of the many paths to being a drunk.

Don’t have the next drink, it actually CAN HURT. Consider AA or other help.

i cannot vouch for the websites stats, it was simply the only place i found anything relevant in a quick Google search. i’d love to see some stats with references if you can find any.

Interesting? Perhaps. I’d also call them unreferenced and disorganized. And of course, the site’s main mission is to pimp bar based BAC machines via DWI hype to reasonable people.

“Drivers with a BAC level of .08 or higher involved in fatal crashes were eight times more likely to have a prior conviction for driving while impaired (DWI) than were drivers with no alcohol (8% and 1%, respectively).”

And from that you draw the logical conclusion that 92% of drivers had no priors. OK.

But I’d wager a paycheck that the site’s 8% figure is crap. Therefore, the 92% number is crap, too.

Where’s the reference? How do they KNOW there were no priors? In many blue states (like NY), the felon’s wing of the Democratic Partyprogressives have made it kinda tough to get info on anyone’s criminal past.

My guess – if this site couldn’t get a criminal record, it assumed none. Which would be consistent with the site’s main mission, pimping bar site BAC machines to non-binge drinkers with a conscience.

And note the words ‘prior conviction for … DWI’. No mention of the number of times pleas were taken to a misdemeanor or lesser charge. Or the number of times the moron was actually pulled over and let go with a warning.

DWI, like speeding, has become a business. The enforcers know there’s little to be made from the habitual drunk they’ve pulled over 5x before. So they’ve shifted focus to the harmless guy who has 2 drinks over a 2 hour dinner.

A look at how far these neo-prohibitionists will go to get their way…
http://www.reason.com/news/show/122456.html

Based on my anecdotal conversations with NY law enforcement, my gut feeling is that the number of DWI vehicular manslaughter deaths from chronic drunks is about 50%.

http://www.alcoholalert.com/drunk-driving-statistics.html has some interesting statistics. among them was this: “Drivers with a BAC level of .08 or higher involved in fatal crashes were eight times more likely to have a prior conviction for driving while impaired (DWI) than were drivers with no alcohol (8% and 1%, respectively).” the info was for 2006, their most recent year with stats.

though the quote appears to say that 8 times as many drunk drivers that killed people had prior DUI convictions as those that didn’t, in reality it says something else entirely. it really says that if you were driving drunk and involved in a fatal crash, you were 8 times more likely to have had a prior DUI than drivers who were not drunk when they were involved in their fatal crash.

in reality the 8% and 1% tell the story. only 8% of drunk drivers involved in a fatal crash had a prior DUI. while 1% of sober drivers that killed people had such a DUI. it follows that 92% of drunk drivers involved in a fatal crash in 2006 had never had a prior DUI conviction. they were not “night-after-night binge drinkers who get arrested time after time, get their licenses suspended time after time, and continue to drive drunk time after time.”

Robstar,

i did not mean to suggest that every single person on the planet is driving home drunk. i did not even say that everyone is letting their friends drive drunk. and i wholeheartedly commend you for your responsibility. but you are, unfortunately, the exception. what i did say is that not everyone is taking responsibility like you are. people (in general) tend to turn a blind eye and rationalize that it is “not their problem.” at least until someone dies.

Speak for yourself. I typically drive people home who have only had a FEW drinks. I always volunteer as designated river when I go out with friends because I enjoy drinking the least out of them and they are happy to oblige.

My brother has been the same since he has been in his mid teens.

My dad was a drunk driver that never got caught, and never had an accident (at least to our knowledge). He got drunk everyday, and he drove that way almost everyday for a couple decades until he could afford to stay home all week and drink.

I wish someone would have caught him, taken his license, and made him prove sobriety to get back and keep his license. Some of the worlds brightest cancer experts were mystified at where the cancer started, or even how he lived for so long with it, but my guess was that it was the liver cancer that spread to most of his body, while the lung cancer was likely a separate issue altogether (he chain smoked as well). Taking his keys might have saved him, even though he did not ever crash.

The end result is inevitable, but how do we deal with them? I think the penalties need to be more severe. Not life in jail when you finally kill a family of five but maybe a year of hard time the second time you’re stopped for driving with a suspended license for DWI.

I remember being in Finland some years ago and somebody told me that Helsinki Airport had been built by drunk drivers. He was half-joking, but the point was that Finland jails drunk drivers–I think they even snagged the CEO of Nokia at one point–and they do manual labor on public-works projects for a year or two before they’re let back out in public.

however, it’s not just the system that treats it this way. the public also seemingly condones drunk driving when it doesn’t kill, and then promptly calls for the death penalty when it does. we all know people who drive home drunk. we have all let someone drive home drunk when we should have stopped them. i know i have. in addition, if you drink, the chances are probably 100 to 1 that you yourself have driven home impaired. this does not make it ok. it does not mean it should be tolerated. but the fact is that it will not change until we change.

there needs to be a cultural shift toward community responsibility. too many people feel like somebody’s choice to drive home from a party drunk is just that: their choice. but when something like this happens, it’s all too clear that it was a failure of everyone who did not intervene. unfortunately, despite the fact that the death of that motorcyclist is Jack’s fault; Jack’s degeneration and continuing destructive behavior was everyone’s fault.

As an earlier poster put it, a large part of our economy is predicated upon letting very marginal drivers retain their licenses, whether they’re 90-year-olds who can’t see 15 feet or 35-year-olds who can’t stop drinking. My brothers and I had to call the local police chief in her small Cape Cod town when our 94-year-old legally blind mother continued to drive even though we took her keys away, since it turned out we had no legal right to do so and had to give them back. Nor could the cops in Wellfleet do anything…until she did something actionable, like maybe killing a child walking to the school bus.

Why? Wish I knew. Calls for decent driver training or stricter licensing standards are like calls for world peace–nice in the abstract–but they have no trouble making three-strikes-and-you’re-out laws about drug dealers, so why do these drivers continue to drive?

The small weekly local newspaper here publishes a “police blotter,” and in it I read of people stopped for driving without a license that has been suspended nine or 10 times already. They’re given a fine and sent on their merry way.

About a year and a half later, (we were just back from a trip through Europe), a friend of hers called to apologize for a dui of her own. Didn’t want my gf to find out through the grapevine. A few years later came dui number four for the trucker, driving without a license this time. While I am sure her friend will never drink and drive again (probably the case with most dui’s), I am equally sure that truck guy won’t ever stop. Killing a family of four is so over the top there is probably a shroud of denial over this event for the man.

Bottom line, I don’t know if there is a humane way of stopping drunk driving. I imagine the problem will worsen with the economic downturn, perhaps enough to counteract any reduction in the fatality rate based on fewer miles driven at slower speeds by motorists. Perhaps greater awareness, backed by stiffer penalties, underlined by more random spot checks would do the trick. It costs money, but may save lives in the long run.

Once upon a time, I almost squashed a motorcyclist in the middle of the day on a divided highway. He was traveling well beyond the limit, but my own concentration was also at fault. You risk your life every time you ride a motorcycle, and are at the mercy of every bad or distracted motorist on the road. I love bikes, but it will take a very different world to get me using one for transportation.

They won’t. At least they won’t protect you against some idiot in a car. What will do the best job of protecting you is constant vigilance. Don’t get me wrong about the importance of gear, yesterday I was riding in 85 degree weather with full leathers, armored boots, full-face helmet and gloves, but your brain and senses are your best defense.

Then there’s the idea of using a cell phone while driving drunk. I shudder to think of the results.

As most people realize, that seems pretty small compared to taking away someone’s life itself. I’m sorry that your friend reached the point that he did, but I’m more sorry for the dead motorcyclist and the family that he undoubtedly left behind. Put me in the crowd that considers this murder. It was not premeditated, but certainly foreseeable, none the less. I also blame the court systems for not stopping your friend sooner. I do not blame his friends for not stopping him because I do not know him or his friends. Maybe you did try to stop, I certainly hope so, and trying is all you can do. But, the legal system can and should do a whole lot more to stop habitual drunks or drug users from operating a motor vehicle.

I’ve been fortunate enough never to go down while owning my bike, but I had full leathers on everytime I rode (including leather pants) for that day when it would probably happen.

Yet what makes me kind of happy about selling the bike are accidents like these. The motorcyclist wasn’t being a “squid” (not wearing gear, but also riding very recklessly on public roads), but just sitting at a light. Gear, while as helpful as it is, just won’t prevent accidents from others who are unattentive, which is truly unfortunate.

I hope the rider’s family is okay, I loved riding my bike and may return to doing it one day. It just won’t be anytime soon.

I started this AFTER I took an MSF course, got my m class and drive both cars and motorcycles.

My wife says I am too cautious a driver.

She noticed this morning that when she drives 25 in the city, it feels fast but when I’m driving 25 it feels slow.

She apologized for asking me to go faster.

If penalties were handed out more harshly I think people would be more careful.

I have a friend from Iran who told me robbery used to be very uncommon there when he was a kid. Then again, he did read stories of people getting their hands cut off…..

As far as motorcycling, I wear no less than full face helmet, jacket (leather or textile, not mesh), gloves (either gp style or “summer” with kevlar), and boots. about 50% of the time I wear leather pants instead of jeans (more comfortable, but hotter)…..

I just shake my head when I see the guys who are 10 years younger than me ride a litrebike with a girl on the back going 2.5x the speed limit with shorts & sunglasses.

I don’t trust other drivers, especially people my own age and the elderly. I have seen people (18 year olds) on the side of the highway having c.p.r performed on them because they were T-boned by an 82 year old. I have seen my friends die. I always look twice in my mirrors when I’m driving my car and I hope everyone does the same.

Jason
President, Ducati Owner’s Club of Montreal
Freelance motorcycle mechanic
Riding enthusiast for life

One hundred+ deaths per day is the cost we’ve accepted.”

True, BUT, with significantly improved driver training (with an emphasis on situational awareness), most marginal drivers will become a lot better at operating a motor vehicle…
I imagine that the number of deaths could be cut by an order of magnitude ‘rather easily’ (in theory)…

My sympathy to the biker

As a motorcyclist, just pretend that you are invisible to everyone else on the road. I think most motorcycle accidents end up with the cager saying “I never even saw them!”

As a motorist, be aware of your surroundings. You’re cruising along in 1-2 tons of metal. That’s not a responsibility to take lightly.

One hundred+ deaths per day is the cost we’ve accepted.