I received this report of a delayed showroom arrival for the new Buick LaCrosse. “Hi my folks are interested in the new 2010 Buick LaCrosse. What an outstanding looking vehicle from Buick/GM. My father called the dealership and they said that the new LaCrosse was shipped then pulled back by Buick. Any news on why? Thanks! Michael” I contacted one of our tipsters. Apparently, “The BCM and ECM aren’t communicating properly. Pop the hood, tinker with something and have someone open the door at the same time and BINGO you’ve got trouble codes galore. You have to go to the dealer to clear them—and that wipes out all memory systems. GM’s having major meetings trying to sort it out. They may have to rewire the platform.”
68 Comments on “Wild Ass Rumor of the Day: New 2010 Buick LaCrosse Delayed by Wiring Problems...”
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Glad to hear the the new GM’s pre-production testing regimen has improved over the old GM’s – otherwise that pesky old “perception gap” might have persisted!
The guy that knew how to wire a car was laid off; a cost savings measure. In fact, they think ‘this guy’ was some sort of nexus, the linch-pin to the whole failure of GM, and now that he’s gone, things will get better. They had a spreadsheet that suddenly turned ‘green’ when his name was deleted off it.
Well Rapid Robert—-I sat in and drove a 2010 LaCrosse yesterday in Pittsburgh. Very sharp car on the outside and a very classy interior. Not only heads and tails above the car it replaces…but on par with the ES350 IMHO.
I didn’t have any of the issues you suggest n your WAROD above. Oh…and there were 3 others on the lot.
Since last summer GMer’s have had one eye on monster.com and one eye on CNN.
Designing / building cars isn’t a real high priority when you might lose your job/home/ability to feed your family.
There are gonna be serious problems for the next few years.
Seriously, this is s shame.
I saw them on the lot yesterday and they looked awfully sweet.
I was kind of hoping it would do well.
So were these design issues or production issues or both?
With the Camaro’s infamous pre-delivery checklist it sounded like both design and production problems.
To be fair I don’t know if statistically GM is worse at big product launches than other companies, but it just seems that there are problems with the product launch of nearly every car that mildly interests me from GM–1st/2nd gen. CTS, Camaro, Lacrosse (G8 was problem free though, right?).
Did any vehicles get to a customer? If the answer is no,then the containment system is working. If the problem/spill involved rewiring the line would be stopped now. The spill containment process would be on red alert.Been there,done that.
Yes lw those that are left are worried,who wouldn’t be? They are also aware that there ain’t a whole lot of jobs out there. Even for the well educated and skilled trades,other employers can’t come close to GM wages and benifits. As far as the lineworkers go,you need nearly 20 years seniority to even have a job.
If GM products don’t sell cause of quality issues. Everybody from the lineworkers to the top management are painfully aware of the consequences.
So who is correct, RF and his rumor or umterp85 and his supposed first hand experience? Can anyone else confirm sightings of the new Buick? I may just take a run by my local Buick dealer today.
Real Buick customers are waiting for the next Park Avenue.
Let’s give new GM some credit for identifying and trying to fix the problem early. Old GM would have shipped it anyway and blamed it on the customer.
Jimal—-go to cochran buick pittsburgh website. I drove the Carbon Black LaCrosse CXL with Titanium interior. In fact—if you were to go there today—the XM radio should be set to the Alt Nation station unless someone else drove it after me.
Again…very nice car. I hope Rapid Robert’s WAROD is false as the LaCrosse could use a perfect punch launch. Don’t know if my experience yesterday dispels Rapid Robert’s rumor or not
GM has gotten itself into a huge mess. New vehicle launches are always problematic, but this is crazy.
Thousands and thousands of staff were cut, the survivors are in shock, and many jobs simply are not getting done. Old guard GM staff are facing culture shock, resisting change, and must be almost paralysed. Morale must be rock bottom and I suspect they have lost faith in GM leadership. Their suppliers are in a similar position. The confusion and resulting stress must be unbelievable.
On top of that they must launch new products as quickly as possible, and they need to represent the “new” GM right out of the factory.
I wish them well, but I am not sure that I (a regular GM buyer) would want to buy from them right now.
No, we do not give GM credit here. This is exactly how they’ve always run business, and the same folks are still there to make sure it will be business as usual.
This is a result of sloppy engineering. It should have been caught in development, not at the dealership. I don’t want to hear about containment. I want to hear that they have finally gotten their stuff together and are launching a good product.
Why do you think folks buy a Lexus? They know the car is not quite a Benz, but they expect the electronics to work 100% of the time. Why do you think Benzes have such horrible resale now? Mainly because of their glitchy electrical systems.
This kind of thing scares me much more than a leaking head gasket or bad rear diff, because I’d be basically at the mercy of a dealer. After reading this story, would you buy an out-of-warranty Buick now? No. What will that do to resale values?
Perception gap. Yeah right.
Re-wire the platform!?!
Good Grief.
An updated EEPROM and it’s fixed.
No, we do not give GM credit here. This is exactly how they’ve always run business, and the same folks are still there to make sure it will be business as usual.
This is a result of sloppy engineering. It should have been caught in development, not at the dealership. I don’t want to hear about containment. I want to hear that they have finally gotten their stuff together and are launching a good product
Um, no offense, but Lexus and BMW both pull problem vehicles before they hit the floor. This is the proper way to do it. No car company does perfect engineering…yes, not even Lexus.
Did the same group do the electrical system of the Chevy Volt?
Lets take a deep breath folks and read the headline. Note “WILD ASS RUMOR”
umterp85
Shouldn’t that be “rabid Robert”? Then again, giving yourself a nickname is the definition of lame.
And yes, this is WAR. But I’ve got it from two sources that the LaCrosse’s electrics are giving GM conniptions.
spyspeed :
August 8th, 2009 at 10:04 am
Real Buick customers are waiting for the next Park Avenue.
No, no. REAL Buick customers are waiting the for next Roadmaster.
You kids!
Get that damn Buick off my lawn!
(couldn’t resist) ;-}
I can believe this rumor is true because it fits a longstanding pattern. GM cannot afford further doubt about their cars. Management must obtain answers to these questions:
Who was responsible for the 2010 LaCrosse’s wiring system?
Is it completely different from all previous GM cars? If so, why?
Did a supplier send them a defective product? If so, why did it get built into the vehicle?
Were GM engineers incompetent, either in designing a part or approving a vendor’s part?
What has been, or must be, done to fix the problem?
What has has been, or will be, done to prevent such problems in the future?
It appears management often neglected in the past to pursue such questions. But except for natural causes such as lightning strikes, problems have human authors. Taxpayers are helping GM make payroll. Don’t ask me to shrug off blunders.
spyspeed: Real Buick customers are waiting for the next Park Avenue.
mdensch: No, no. REAL Buick customers are waiting the for next Roadmaster.
No, no. Real Buick customers are waiting for hip replacement surgery.
Okay, we have two sources saying there are electric issues and that the cars were pulled, but (at the moment) one person saying he has test driven the car and says there are several on the lot.
Is it possible that this WAR is in fact WAON (Wild Ass Old News), that the cars were shipped, recalled, repaired and reshipped already?
mdensch: No, no. REAL Buick customers are waiting the for next Roadmaster.
KixStart: No, no. Real Buick customers are waiting for hip replacement surgery.
My hips are just fine, thank you. I’m just tired of waiting for what I know should be a Buick…
RE: GM pulling back cars for a glitch;
You guys are way, WAY too harsh. The best anyone can hope for (even Lexus) is the car is 99.99% perfect when introduced. Trying to achieve that last .01% is not practical or even possible. (Think: Space Shuttle).
The fact that they caught it and jumped right on it shows me that it ain’t a Vega leaving Lordstown with one bolt holding on the driver’s seat.
I compliment GM. I just still hate them.
I had to basically give away a gorgeous example of an ‘89 all electronic FWD Cadillac because of all kinds of problems with the BCM and ECM and a couple three other CM’s that have no d*mn business being on a car. Meet the new GM . . . same as the old GM . . .
Not that I would buy a 2010 LaCrosse anyway, not with the beltline hiked up higher than a streetwalker’s skirt, and a bad case of Dash and Console Expansion Syndrome inside.
“Let’s give new GM some credit for identifying and trying to fix the problem early. Old GM would have shipped it anyway and blamed it on the customer.”
I don’t give credit to companies who shaft US taxpayer to keep their fucking crappy ass, failure prone company afloat. American cars are generally total crap, and GM will die eventually. It’s odd that anything is written about them anymore. Any American car over $20K is a freaking waste of money IMO.
So we now have a government-owned entity making vehicles with strange electrical gremlins.
Hmmm…is it just me, or does this scenario sound vaguely British?
highrpm: “Why do you think folks buy a Lexus? They know the car is not quite a Benz, but they expect the electronics to work 100% of the time.”
Umm…hate to burst the ‘Lexus can do no wrong bubble’, but among other recalls, within the last year Lexus, recalled vehicles for EPAS (214,500 units risking electric motor losing part of the rotor and jamming the steering), fuel delivery pipes (200,000 units due to corrosion)…
RF….”Rapid Robert” as in you “Rapidly” get any hint of bad domestic manufacturer news to the TTAC newswire ASAP.
spyspeed: Real Buick customers are waiting for the next Park Avenue.
mdensch: No, no. REAL Buick customers are waiting the for next Roadmaster.
KixStart: No, no. Real Buick customers are waiting for hip replacement surgery.
No, no. Real Buick customers are boycotting to demand the return of the car named for the median age of its buyers; they won’t spend thin dime one until the Century is back.
@BuzzDog:
So we now have a government-owned entity making vehicles with strange electrical gremlins.
Hmmm…is it just me, or does this scenario sound vaguely British?
FTW!
I don’t understand the issue here. As a cab driver, we drive a fleet of Chevy Ventures and Uplanders. All of them are electrical nightmares and have the strangest intermittent electrical problems. Then the fault is compounded by the computer getting bad info and compromising other systems.
Example, Gas Gauges (Or Gages, if you must follow GM’s clout) quit working on the Uplanders with around 40,000 miles. Now the message center is “Binging” at you every few seconds. It is also a parameter the ECM uses, so it now throws a code and the CEL illuminates.
From my seat in the mini vans, I can see into most vehicles. I’ve noticed the GM’s CEL lights are the only reliably engineer system on the General’s products, as most two-three year old models are proudly displaying theirs.
I was worried about my (almost) ten year old Lincoln’s electrical system, but GM’s are atrocious right off the showroom floor. My Lincoln is doing fine, but the Uplander I drive is an amazingly frustrating beast with a myriad of Volt (age; sorry, I couldn’t resist!) problems.
Kudos for getting the news out on the LaCrosse. Of course this is just a WAR but what the hell!
“BuzzDog :
So we now have a government-owned entity making vehicles with strange electrical gremlins.
Hmmm…is it just me, or does this scenario sound vaguely British?”
Hmm, VW is 20% government owned and electrical gremlins are one of their traditional brand attributes too. Interesting.
Rube Goldberg is smiling. Modern cars are loaded with complex devices that perform simple tasks in indirect, convoluted ways. When devices were independently governed breakdowns were few, easily traced and corrected.
Germans in particular don’t do electricity well. Mercedes, BMW and Audi owners’ credit cards are smokin’ from electrical and electronics repairs.
What does Maximum Bob have to say about this?
Maybe GM should just launch the 2010 LaCrosse in 2010.
spyspeed: Real Buick customers are waiting for the next Park Avenue.
mdensch: No, no. REAL Buick customers are waiting for the next Roadmaster.
Kixstart: No, no. Real Buick customers are waiting for hip replacement surgery.
Daniel J. Stern: No, no. REAL Buick customers are boycotting to demand the return of the car named for the median age of its buyers; they won’t spend thin dime one until the Century is back.
No, no. REAL Buick customers are waiting for the hearse.
This should only affect Buick’s remaining 5 customers.
All the rest went to Lexus a long time ago, or have given up driving completely in a retirement community in Florida.
-ted
The new GM is the same old GM. I made the mistake of buying one of the first 2004 GMC Canyons. Bad (false) trouble codes popped up almost immediately. At first it was a battery warning when the temperature dropped below about 30 degrees. I took it to the dealer and they claimed they “reprogrammed” the computer, so I signed the bill they used to charge GM.
I went home but it did the same thing again. Went back to the dealer and got no satisfaction. Their answer was that GM knows about it. Great!
Now the driver’s power window doesn’t work, nor do the power locks and lately the thing has taken to not starting at random. I get a change oil warning that I can not get rid of. So I just put black electrical tape over the message. I’m tempted to take it to another dealer, but I fear getting the same run around. The truck is now 5 years old with 25,000 miles on it. It is the worst new vehicle I ever bought. I’m not going to talk about the other problems like water coming in here.
I liked the styling. It was fresh just like the new Buick LaCrosse. But don’t be sucked in by GM’s style. They do not adequately test their electronics among other things before pushing vehicles out the door. They let customers do the testing of new style vehicles.
If you must have a new style Buick LaCrosse wait at least a couple of years for them to get some of the bugs out. I doubt they will since my experience and this report on the LaCrosse confirm that they are still working (ignoring) the problem 5 years later.
If the new Lacrosse is going to be anything like the 2010 Equinox I drove yesterday, then Lexus doesn’t have anything to worry about.
I have seen five or six of these LaCrosses on the road with state registered plates, so I think that these have made their way to customers.
Sloppy wiring has been a GM problem for years. I had an Intrigue that had an air conditioner that turned on and off after it when over a bump. My 2005 Malibu’s radio’s reception suddenly improves dramatically after I go over a bump. This is all due to suspect wiring. I am sure there are many here who have experienced problems with GM’s power windows.
Oddly enough, two guys I know, both professionals in their mid-30’s have recently bought Buicks. One, a lawyer, showed up in a brand new Enclave. The other, a teacher, shopped around for a used Lacrosse. I was stunned in both instances. I think it is kind of a reaction against everyone driving Japanese cars- it’s retro like Schlitz beer.
Poor GM , This is gonna give that new Ford Taurus a real advantage. In that it will get launched, and now already has what will be perceived as better quality. + I don’t get this “aimed @ the Lexus ES ” talk. The Buick seems to me to be aimed @ the same target as the new Taurus. Which is just a touch lower.
spyspeed: Real Buick customers are waiting for the next Park Avenue.
mdensch: No, no. REAL Buick customers are waiting for the next Roadmaster.
Kixstart: No, no. Real Buick customers are waiting for hip replacement surgery.
Daniel J. Stern: No, no. REAL Buick customers are boycotting to demand the return of the car named for the median age of its buyers; they won’t spend thin dime one until the Century is back.
jnik: No, no. REAL Buick customers are waiting for the hearse.
Am I alone in seeing a product opportunity here? Adapt the Enclave?
“Make Buick part of your funeral planning.”
“Into the retirment community in a Buick, out of the retirement community in a Buick.”
I was watching “Speeders” on TV a couple of weeks ago when the cop pulled over a new Impala for having the wrong tag. The driver explained she just picked the car up from the dealer and had transfered the tag. The cop says casually, “Did you know your check engine light is on?” Another GM mark of excellence.
I sure hope TTAC (and this so-called source) has proof…
@golf4me (in original post, revised after I made the comments below):
Robert, I hope you have libel insurance!
Why? He doesn’t need it, nor does he need proof beyond having heard it from two sources.
TTAC reported that “Michael’s” father was informed by a dealership of a defect (with the dealer acting as manufacturer’s agent), and this was verified by another source. RF then posted it, clearly identifying it as a rumor, with the implied intent of seeking verification of said reports.
No falsehoods, and no damage to reputation (if, in the case of GM, such is even possible). In fact, one could argue that the intent is to actually enhance the reputation of “new GM,” by pointing out that an effort is being made to keep defective products out of the hands of customers.
People scream “libel” all the time, but very, very few cases of this type are successful. And simply disliking the message doesn’t mean it’s libelous.
It ought to be delayed permanently for FUGLY problems.
OK, youngsters, I get it: Buick’s customers are dying off.
But here’s the thing: that’s been happening for a hundred years! Buick is one of the oldest surviving car brands in the world. Olds once tried the slogan “this is not your father’s Oldsmobile.” Buick could say “this is not your father’s [1982 model year] Buick, or your grandfather’s [1966], or your great-grandfather’s [1940], or your great-great grandfather’s [1914].” In all that long time, new generations came to see Buick as something one should aspire to. Until relatively recently.
GM, you threw away a good reputation.
“GM, you threw away a good reputation.”
That’s assuming a “good” reputation to begin with. My family (and I have to assume many others) figured out in the early ’80s American cars are total crap, and between the 5 of us, NEVER had another.