If they had better products and a better product line, nobody would be asking “What would Jesus drive?”

It took supreme arrogance and unfathomable idiotic brand management to stomp all life out of the Saturn experience. Dump top management and bring in people from L.L. Bean, Eddie Bauer, and REI to run it and watch how much is still available to be mined from this tree-hugger’s bait Mother Lode.

That being said, it did have some successes. As many others have said, novelty, good customer relations, and brand loyalty. This at least offered the prospect of a sometime return on investment. Then GM let it whither, then made it a home for Euro imports that it didn’t advertise and lost money on, as well as some badge-engineered non-entities. The only exception was the Sky, in that it looked distinctly different, and better, than the Solstice.

The Aura and Outlook will disappear, and the others…well I can almost see them all ending up at Buick if that brand sticks around. If not, I think they all disappear.

Over on the Astra review thread Macca compared the Astra to an early 90’s Infiniti G20 – small, not a lot of power, but great handling and dependable.

For me small/great handling == Ton-O-Fun

I own a 91 G20 with 230K miles. It’s time to think about a replacement and the Astra sounds like the perfect car for me. Is there any chance I’d have someone to honor any kind of warranty for the next five years or should I just forget about it and move on?

GM killing Saturn and letting those dealers twist in the wind would be GM-ish, which is to say stupid. What kept Saturn going after GM stopped investing in it was the dealer network. People who didn’t necessarily like Saturn cars would buy a Saturn anyway just because of the dealer experience alone.

That puts Saturn in one of the rarest of places: a GM division that figured out how to engage its customers at the dealer level, promoting fierce brand loyalty and a positive image of the company. The fact they have done as well as they have with some truly mediocre iron (plastic?) says a lot about that side of Saturn’s business. I would like to see Saturn survive, even if it has to punch out, escape pod-like, from the burning and stricken Mothership.

And that is the crux of GM’s problem: just give the dealers something to sell “in the segment”.It only has to be just good enough. Criminal mismanagement and outlandish basis on which to base product decisions. No question.

And no evidence whatsoever that this has changed in any way. The Cobalt was to be GM’s “premium” small car, to help erase GM’s image as an also ran in the segment. You have all seen how long that lasted. Classic GM.

And I will bet you: nothing has changed and nothing will as a result of the bail out. What you will see in the 2020 Chevy Cruze will be what you see in 2010. If GM even lasts that long.

Still, the dash was hard ass plastic. The cloth seats were left me longing for the Taurus and the whole climate control layout looked like it was scammed from my buddies ‘83 Celica. But with continued refinement it could’ve easily been a serious competitor to the Civil/Corolla class leaders.

The mid-90’s redesign wasn’t to my stylistic liking…then with the ION rollout I completely lost interest. Too bad. When Saturn started selling an SUV I had already long ago left the ranch for the Japanese transplants.

The Holy Grail S Series was considered “almost there” by the automotive press in being an equal competitor to the Corolla or the Civic when it was introduced. And that’s as far as it EVER got. Almost.

Almost was good enough – if they could have stayed just that little bit behind Honda and Toyota, many of us would be driving Saturns today. I was willing to give my business to GM for “almost”. For “not even close”, as in the Ion and the Cobalt? Not a chance.

I like the car, but can be objective about it. To say it’s good, is wishful thinking. To say it does it’s intended job with a measure of ability and economy is true , but faint praise.That it’s a TWAT award winner makes me smile every time I drive it.

A shame too, as the Delta platform is a competent although heavy one.It took the Cobalt to bring the improvements that the ION should have been introduced with in Fall of 2002.

Even then the Cobalt was only “Almost there”. And only for a year before GM started it’s campaign of neglect. “We only got 10 years out of our 95 Cavalier makeover. Maybe we can get 15 out of the Cobalt…”

The Holy Grail S Series was considered “almost there” by the automotive press in being an equal competitor to the Corolla or the Civic when it was introduced. And that’s as far as it EVER got. Almost.

PCH:Also true. If the Feds do this bailout to maintain the type of mismanagement that Saturn represents [failed opportunities, grandiose schizo product planning, etc ] and I will never ever buy another domestic built car. Ever. It’s one thing to buy a funky automobile because it has a certain whacked appeal to the buyer. Another thing when everyone else is forced to pay for it as well.

And ironically the AVEO will sell three times as many units as the Astra.

The cost of this shutdown will be coming out of our pockets. It could easily cost a billion dollars to do this.

It’s a shame that a decision like this wasn’t made when GM would have gotten some benefit out of it and they could have paid for it themselves. Now, instead, we’re going to pay for it, and we won’t be seeing any benefit from it at all. The Aveo will not magically become a better car just because Saturn is gone.

In the 1990s, Oldsmobile, under division general manager John Rock, tried to implement Saturn’s no-haggle price policy and upgrade service at local Oldsmobile dealers.

The effort failed, and one reason was that Olds dealers were more independent than Saturn dealers. When GM drew up the Saturn franchise agreements, it made sure that the corporation retained a great deal of control over the operation and policies of the dealers. GM did not have this level of control over Olds dealers.

DweezilSFW: The comparison between an S Series and an ION is like comparing a 33 Ford to a 49 Ford.

Maybe, but the 1949 Ford was at least as good as it contemporaries, and better in some ways, while the ION was woefully behind the Focus, let alone the Corolla and Civic.

I own two Saturns: a 95 SL1 and an 05 ION 1. If the S Series was the best GM could do with all it’s resources and all it’s money, it’s no wonder it’s in the straits it finds itself in today.

As for the ION being “worse” than the S series: it rides better, it’s quieter, the Ecotec 4 doesn’t suck oil, the transmission differential pins don’t blow, it’s easier to enter and exit, has more trunk room and has a more comfortable driving position.

I just got back from a 2000 mile round trip in it. 700 mile days were easy. I would have been crippled and deaf in the 95. Even Car & Driver said the ION was “better than what came before it”.

They also said “we waited 7 years for this ?”. It was better, but not by much and came with it’s own set of quirks and problems. And it’s a TWAT winner as well. But that just damns the s series even more.

The comparison between an S Series and an ION is like comparing a 33 Ford to a 49 Ford.

Still doesn’t make the ION a good car, but it suits misfits like me just fine.Mileage is 26-37 with the automatic.Always beats it’s EPA #s. In LA traffic.

No. There was nothing GM could not have accomplished with Geo [which came before Saturn BTW], Nummi, Opel or GM S. America for billions of dollars less.

What they proved with Saturn was that with the right ad agency and brand focus they could sell a lot of mediocre cars at full price and have people love em. The S was fun to drive and simple to work on. At that it was brilliant.

With a total of 11,000 Astras sold vs. 100,000 units per year for the ION, a 411 day supply of the Atra currently, the Sky selling at a $10,000 per unit loss and the market for 5000 lb crossovers dying, let it go, GM. It’s over. It never made a dime since it’s origins in the mid 80s. At a true cost of untold billions.

End it. Don’t mend it.

Outer Planet being slang for Saturn, which was considered to be where men who were not so real were sent to die.

Anyway – Saturn was great when it started, the rest of GM should have sought to achieve that kind of customer loyalty and after-sales service, and the company wouldn’t be where it is now.
But with GM bent on “cross-platform synergies,” poor Saturn had too few models for that idea to work there. Instead of reaching the logical conclusion – leave it like that – they gave Saturn a range of models to fois their platforms on.

Numbskulls.

Just look at the plans they’ve been making over the last year; the new Aura (nee Insignia) was canceled/delayed, while Buick will likely be getting a direct-import Insignia clone. The Vue has been doing well thanks to its Euro design and quality interior, but GMC is getting a new small SUV, the Terrain, that shares the Vue’s sheetmetal. The Astra, though never really meant to sell in large numbers, has no confirmed replacement.

All the signs have been pointing to a Saturn closure being in the works, but nothing has provided concrete proof until now.

Saturn’s a dead-brand walking. Too bad…

Every bit the competitor to the contemporary Civic and Corrola.

Bulletproof reliability: Over 165K miles, we’ve spent <$2K on repairs. Yes, thats right. Total repair bills (excluding routine maintinence) of $2K over the car’s lifespan so far…

And it still looks good! It looks contemporary and modern still.

But the successor, the Ion, was an abomination. Cut corners, cheap design, and didn’t refine things the way the Civic and Corrola were refined.

And the lack of a competent midsized car (the L serise was a joke) ensured Saturn’s demise.

I’m not as good at dealing with this stuff as some other people are. I’d rather deal with a fixed price, MSRP minus incentives as the market would dictate, and then great service afterward.

Yep, everyone pays full sticker price sure was a great deal …. for the dealers! Why pay full boat for an Aura when the Chevy dealer will do much better for you on a Malibu?