With all due respect, the same can be said for some of your own partisan political remarks.

Your advocacy for Michigan auto workers is a worthy goal. What I don’t get is why you’ve apparently taken to attacking another group of workers using sweeping generalizations that you would presumably find offensive if directed at auto workers.

I don’t find sweeping generalizations about UAW members offensive, at least the ones that say they are very well paid for semi-skilled work and have ridiculous work rules that hamper productivity. I’m no defender of featherbedding or other union ills.

However, the reason why I’ve decided that the 1.6 million federal employees are relevant is because most people have no clue just how high their salaries are and how much the costs associated with them harm many states. Those federal employees are one reason why nearly a trillion dollars has been transferred out of the midwest. Federal employees are extraordinarily well paid, with benefits that are simply not available in the private sector. Unlike the autoworkers, federal employees have their hands in our pocket. You can choose not to buy a domestic car because you don’t like the work ethic or quality of UAW members. You can’t choose not to pay some GS-14 a “retention bonus”, or tell the IRS you’re going to pass on funding that off ramp to the Mercedes plant in Alabama.

Federal employees have the power of the state behind them to compel you to pay their salaries at the threat of losing your liberty. Frankly, I’m a little wary of posting these things under my own name because if I piss off the wrong federal employee I’m likely to get audited or something. And if you don’t think that public employees resent being told that they work for the public, try telling a local cop that he works for you.

As for sweeping generalizations, like I said before, my aunt is a retired administrative law judge for the Social Security system. She’s seen how the federal bureaucracy works from within. She’s worked with federal employees and she’s adjudicated cases involving them. It’s her opinion that they don’t do much productive work. I wish it was online so I could find it, but there was a letter to the editor of the Wall Street Journal from an employee of the Commerce department. He said he made about $80K/year and literally had nothing to do all day. He’d read his newspaper and said that his situation was not unique, that his department had hundreds of folks like him “working” in his building. The higher ups don’t care because if they got rid of him, they’d have smaller budgets to control, fewer employees they “supervise” and subsequently lower salaries themselves.

You didn’t answer my question so I’ll rephrase it. Who do you think are more conscientious workers, UAW autoworkers or federal employees?

In general, I am skeptical about broad-brush comments targeted at any large group of people. Sweeping remarks at best can result in caricatures.

Your advocacy for Michigan auto workers is a worthy goal. What I don’t get is why you’ve apparently taken to attacking another group of workers using sweeping generalizations that you would presumably find offensive if directed at auto workers.

I’d respectfully suggest that a more nuanced argument could win more hearts and minds.

That has nothing to do with it. These are long term trends that date back to the Carter administration at least. The growth of the federal workforce has continued through both Democratic and Republican administrations.

Actually things have gotten a little better in terms of federal spending in the midwest since 2000. Michigan currently gets 92 cents per dollar of taxes, compared to the avg of 81 for 1981-2005.

In any case, it’s the Democrats that are the party of the Confederacy, slavery and Jim Crow. Lincoln was a Republican. The KKK was founded, in part, to terrorize and run off blacks elected as Republicans during reconstruction. It was the Democrats who filibustered the ‘64 Civil Rights Bill and the Republicans who passed it. The ‘65 Voting Rights Bill was first proposed by the Eisenhower administration.

Perhaps now they should change their signs to read 1865 and 2010.

I can’t help but feel like one of the reasons the confederate states receive so much federal coin is because the Republicans with their southern power-base.

Also, every state to my knowledge is “at-will” employment although the Civil Rights Act tempers it somewhat. What you are thinking of is “right-to-work” states.

Yes, the federal government has transferred much of the wealth of the industrial midwest to the VA and MD suburbs.

That’s why 9 of the 20 wealthiest counties are in just those two states and why Maryland has the highest per capita income in the US.

At least the UAW is honest about its members getting paid not to work, unlike federal employees.

Why are people indignant over autoworkers making $67,000/year but are ho hum about the 1.6 million federal employees who average more than $66K a year? There are more than 50,000 federal employees who make more than $100,000 a year.

Do you honestly believe that government employees are more conscientious workers than autoworkers?

Thanks

The Tax Foundation

http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/show/22685.html

As I see it, the problem in many European countries is that it is so easy to get generous unemployment benefits. In other words, there is a powerful incentive to be unemployed and a disincentive to work. If Europe had the same system in place as the U.S. has, unemployment would be considerably lower.

(Not to forget the approx. 1.5% of the U.S. working population currently incarcerated and therefore off the labor market…)

The federal government needs to have a veto on tax breaks and incentives to stop state and local governments from competing for factory locations. Its an obscene system, and is nothing more than thievery.

Also note that most European countries – Italy, in particular – have a population that is older than that of the U.S., so they will have more people officially out of the work force because of retirement.

Without starting a flame war discussion regarding pros/cons of unions I have to say that open shop environment made for better unions – for workers and companies alike.

That fact alone is going to drive the Big 2.8 to the US South as soon as they shed the old UAW rules.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_unemployment_rate

Unemployment rate in %:
3.2 Netherlands
6.1 Sweden
6.1 Italy
6.5 U.S.
6.7 EU
7.5 France

That figure includes Social Security payments and Medicare spending.

Given that many people prefer to retiree to the warmer south, it stands to reason that southern states will receive more federal money.

Unless the North wants to keep retirees in the region via ankle bracelets, or abolish Social Security and Medicare, this will continue.

Last time I checked, the Democrats were ones the raising the image of grandma starving in the streets every time someone mentions touching either program.

Ronnie Schreiber: Maryland is the wealthiest state. For the past 25 years, they’ve always received more back from the feds than their taxes, about $1.25 on average.

Have you ever been to Maryland? Do you realize how many federal employees and retirees live in the Baltimore-D.C.-Annapolis region? How many “Beltway Bandit” contractor firms there are in the region?

Of course Maryland will receive more than it sends to the federal government.

But, given that neither party at this point really wants to shrink the federal government, or the employment associated with running it, I say, “You are getting what you want. Stop whining.”

Obama sure wasn’t elected on a small government platform, and the last time I checked, he won Michigan handily…

Ronnie Schreiber: Say what you will about the folks in the rustbelt, they know about industrial work.

Unfortunately, all too many of the products that they engineer, design and produce fail to reflect that…

Where are you getting your federal tax spending data? Not doubting it – just curious to read more on the subject.

Thanks

What, well paid people don’t get MBAs and other advanced degrees?

Who do you think is more likely to ask for and receive a 25% retention bonus, a GS-5 or a GS-13?

How many folks in the private sector can go to their boss and threaten to work someplace else if they don’t get a 25% raise? Oh, I’m sure they can go and threaten, but in the vast majority of cases the boss will say, “See ya!”

Should taxpayers be paying the day care tuition of federal employees or for on-site day care? Can a woman working on the line at GM or Ford take a break to breast feed or pump?

Face it, the word for fed emps’ bennies is called “lavish”.

Get the UAW out of the equation or at least make Michigan a right-to-work state and things will dramatically change. Of course, this is wishful thinking since Michigan is run by retarded politicians and unions.

What I’m questioning is the fairness of Michigan taxpayers paying for water projects so folks can water their lawns in Phoenix. What I’m questioning is that there is a tremendous imbalance in federal spending that benefits particular states over others. I’m questioning why military bases and defense plants in Michigan have been closed while funding has gone to facilities in the sunbelt.

Now, you could also argue that the south has dominated national politics over the last eight years — and has brought home more bacon as a result.

It’s not just the past 8 years. Michigan has had a net drain of federal tax dollars for at least the past 25 years. $200 billion. Maryland is the wealthiest state. For the past 25 years, they’ve always received more back from the feds than their taxes, about $1.25 on average.

Sure, based on immediate needs, government funds will shift around, but there are clear trends in play here. A huge amount of wealth has been transferred from the industrial midwest to the sunbelt and DC suburbs.

Kind of flies in the face of conventional wisdom that says that folks in Michigan are “uneducated and unskilled”, “stupid”, “on crack”, etc.

Although BMW is now partnered with Clemson U, many managers regret the decision to relocate there from a technical standpoint.

Not just technical. The transplants have experienced some difficulties with training, quality and finding enough skilled tradesmen. Say what you will about the folks in the rustbelt, they know about industrial work.

Quality is looked upon as function of process and design. The quality of M-B made in Alabama can be traced to plethora of reasons. Since production lines are almost 100% automated, workers may not be the reason for plunge in quality. Cost payed to employee does contribute to the cost of the vehicle.

That is not at all true. Benefit costs tend to be fixed. For example : one guy makes 40k and another makes 100k. Their healt benefits (the most expensive) are 12k (at most). The only benefit that may be more for someone making more is potentiall 401k matching, and of course FICA, etc. But those are negligible in most cases, much less than health insurance. Also, the lower-paid guy is more apt to take advantage of things like tuition reimbursement too.

Whenever you see Barry O. up on stage, have you ever noticed that there are Northern/Midwest politicians such as Jenny Granholm on stage near him?

That may be “common knowledge” but stats show that their Alabama facility is one reason why M-B quality is below that of the domestics.

“UAW workers are paid out of voluntary purchases. Federal workers are paid out of taxes coerced from everyone.”

Um, yeah. That’s called a modern industrial democracy. Would you prefer we privatized everything, e.g., the military, emergency management, highways, public health, etc.?

“They took our money, sent it to other states, fostering job growth there.”

Under our system of government, the feds can divert funds collected in one place and spend them elsewhere for the good of the nation. If you are questioning that basic principle then you presumably endorse the dismemberment of the US, because this dynamic is pretty much a given in our current form of government.

Now, you could also argue that the south has dominated national politics over the last eight years — and has brought home more bacon as a result. With the defeat of some powerful southern politicians in the last election we may see somewhat different priorities emerge.

They took our money, sent it to other states, fostering job growth there.

THIS

Michigan is STILL a donor state even with its economy in shambles. Alabama and some of the other Southern states are finally starting catch up even though it’s been 140 years since the Civil War has ended. Guess they are getting a bit of revenge.

The thing that I noticed is that mainly manufacturing facilities are being sprung up in the South. The brainpower and R&D will continue to be strong in Michigan. SE Michigan in particular will not be taking a back seat to automotive development any time in the near future. As a matter of fact, I see R&D growing in Michigan since it can easily branch out into other sectors such as renewable energy.

Ask yourself this: With all the “foreign” manufacturers building in the South, why did Toyota, Nissan, Kia/Hyundai and countless suppliers choose to have engineering and design facilities in Michigan? Why did Toyota choose to locate its NA Technical Center in Ann Arbor (York Twp) rather than California or South Carolina? It was because of the technical know-how that is here. Even though Michigan has been stained by the UAW, the automotive and technical brainpower is a force to be reckoned with.

A buddy of mine works for BMW and told me that the main reason they moved to South Carolina was because of the financial incentives offered. Michigan, at the time, simply didn’t offer any $$ to BMW. Although BMW is now partnered with Clemson U, many managers regret the decision to relocate there from a technical standpoint.