I am so confused.

I am straight and drive a “fast and furious” Legacy GT (Spec. B, no less). But I also drove an Outback VDC for 3 years. Hmmmm!

No mountains here in Providence, but we do have some hills that are fun when it snows (I Pirelli Winter the Spec. B to increase the enjoyment).

I wonder which one of your profiles I fit? Maybe I just like dependable cars that are fun to drive and inexpensive to keep.

I do love women from that enchanted Greek Isle though. Maybe I’ll get myself a new Forester XT.

Great how profiling works ain’t it! Gotta love liberalism.

Move on!

On the other hand, I really don’t see all that many Toyotas for sale with that kind of mileage. I did buy a Toyota (1991 Celica ST — 1.6 liter four cylinder) myself in 1999 that had 212,000 on it — and was surprisingly solid. But I haven’t seen all that many since.

I do seem to see plenty of Nissan Maximas with high mileage holding up very well.

And then, of course, there’s my 1988 Olds Delta 88 with the 3800 V6 that still wasn’t burning a drop of oil when my brother, who obtained it from me as a hand-me-down, totaled it with about 215,000 miles on the odometer.

That 3800 V6’s performance was miles ahead (no pun intended…) of the Toyota 1.6 liter’s, which burned oil (lots of it) right up to the car’s death (culprit: T-bone) at 298,000 miles. And the oil conflagration reached blinding-blue-cloud-of-smoke levels at every start-up from 260,000 miles onward.

Just my observations…”sorry” if they don’t fit the new conventional wisdom…

They are great cars… but folks who take it to a dealer will get absolutely fleeced… anyone and their dog can do most of the maintenance and repairs.

I bought a 95 Volvo 960 wagon for $1150 a few weeks ago it was probably the fifth or sixth I bought this past year. Out of all the models, the 960/V90/S90 seems to have the highest level of dealer maintenance from prior owners. One of my buys even went to the dealer 47 times for maintenance and repair needs. Couldn’t believe it. I like their ride and interior ergonomics especially but they do require a lot more upkeep than most other Volvos.

We can talk about image all we want. But what it really comes down to is the model vis-a-vis the competition. Volvo simply does not have the better product at the price ranges they are ‘asking’ for. I still believe that the deep discounts you can get at some dealerships make a few of their models worthy considerations… but a fellow who is shopping for a $25k will usually not delve into European cars that go for over $30k because the perceived gulf in price appears to large.

I still think Volvo would have been successful with a ‘Volvo 260′ based on the Taurus/Sable platform. Everything from the bulky styling to safety record to prior gen S80 chassis just oozed the foundation of a true Volvo. Unfortunately Ford did not see it that way, and now the marque rots under the delusional guise of ‘prestige’.

The corporate ‘profit perception’ and consumer ‘market perception’ of Volvo simply don’t mix.

“Then you have the people who live in the mountains who purchase them as they are the best value in AWD/4WD snow vehicles.”

Subaru had better watch it’s tail. Suzuki’s SX4 is all set to mop up the low-end AWD buyers.

There are the Blue State Suburbanites who used to purchase Volvos.

The Impreza WRX and Sti that appeal to the younger “fast & furious” performance driving set. The Legacy GT also falls into this category.

Then you have the Gay & Lesbian community that likes their Outback Wagons and Foresters.

Then you have the people who live in the mountains who purchase them as they are the best value in AWD/4WD snow vehicles.

It’s kind of sad, really, but what can you do? An S60 or 9-3 isn’t good enough to knock off a 3-Series or A4, and not sufficiently better than top-trim Accord or Highlander to justify the premium. At least Acura has reliability and VW demographics, and even they’re suffering. The others are dead brands walking.

About the only brand that’s managed to survive in this niche is Subaru (though Mazda is trying; Saturn seems to have failed) and it’s likely that they’ll suffer the same fate once they hit that magic “overpriced” point and people look at the dollar-vs-feature equation on a Legacy versus an Accord or Malibu.

I think that the market pretty clearly shows…

1. FWD cars are not premium cars
2. Fewer than 8 cylinders disqualifies a model from the “premium” ranks
3. A make with one or two models having 8+ cylinders and/or AWD whose sister models are 4’s or 6’s with FWD is not a premium make.

I guess that the business case for Volvo to check out here would be Acura.

+1 on goolsbee.

TTAC and Autoblog don’t – at least in my world – don’t fill the same space in the online-auto-mo market.

AB is for quick hits. Updates. News blurbs and poorly thought through bloggifying.

TTAC, on the other hand is well done: the premium product. I spend time here (@TTAC), read good automotive writing and respond with thoughts not up to the level of the authors’.

In atomic terms, AB is AutoWeek and TTAC is at least the R&T of old when Henry N. Manney III was with us.

I don’t know what that does to your financial model, but in the online space, TTAC is what it is and shouldn’t – me thinks – sully itself by “Strunk & White-ing” AutoBlog.

RD

Over on the Allpar.com forums there are plenty of “K” cars in all their derrivates with 100 and 200k miles on them. They even have a special forum for tech questions and do it yourself repairs for these cars. And was it TTAC or Autoblog that ran a story about a Cavalier car club? After all my years on this planet, I’ve come to realize that for any given car (well, maybe not Yugo), there are fans and admirers who get great results and mileage from their vehicles and disgruntled customers with tales of woe.

Can’t vouch for the Cav, but my 87 Reliant blew its head gasket at 253,000 miles. It too was showing signs of the tin worm. Not nearly as solid as a 240, either, but repairs, which were cheap and easy, seemed to be spaced at 70K miles apart. And, no I doubt there will ever be a Chrysler in my garage, nor a Volvo…

BTW isn’t it dreidel? Spell check says no, Google says yes…

Well, wouldn’t you know in its old age when it was no longer the primary vehicle, it became much more reliable. I used it as a commuter for years, and finally sold it in 2003 with 245K miles when the tin worm and electrical maladies (plus more vehicles in the stable than we needed) made me pull the plug.

BTW, how long do you think the Cavalier or K-car would have lasted? But I seriously doubt I’ll own another Volvo again — they moved too far from their roots.

Volvos were never reliable.

My family had a 240 wagon back in the day before Volvo went upscale (which they did 17 years ago, guys…) , and although it was a ‘nice’ car in its solid feel, the damn thing was a lemon. For every story of a can’t-kill-it volvo there is, there’s a story like mine.

My God we need a hail mary.

Ditto seoultrain. The best at their game don’t snipe at the rest of the field. Chase the dream, not the competition RF.

Part of defining the TTAC brand is to define who we aren’t. Call it negative campaigning, but it’s an important part of my job.

Yes and yes. The “exceptional durability” and “meticulous engineering” have been conspicuously absent in recent years. My friend with an S80 talks about it in much the same way one used to hear Jaguars referred to: “I love it when it isn’t in the shop sucking another $500 to $2000 out of my wallet”.

As for Volvo, just another vital brand that has been drained of life by contact with Detroit. Hell, even Mercedes-Benz acquired a stink of death by associating with the state of Michigan.

–chuck