Once again, that Prius is nothing but a prototype.
Once again, this prototype will NOT be the same as the *production* plug-in Prius we will be getting with li-ion batteries. This prototype uses NiMH batteries.

That said, the series-vs.parallel debate WAS the one that spawned the official Toy line that the kind of batteries GM was after were “theoretical” and that people’s shouldn’t get all excited:

http://blog.toyota.com/2007/09/hybrid-tech-par.html
From Toy’s official blog:
Yes, there was a high-profile showing of a series-hybrid prototype called the Chevrolet Volt at the Detroit auto show last January. But keep in mind that the advanced lithium-ion batteries that the Volt would use, batteries suitable for the long-term rigors of every-day automotive use, don’t exist. Indeed, several firms are working hard on perfecting them for automotive use. But for now, the 40 miles between charges that the Volt’s engineers talk about, and that have so many people fired up, are purely theoretical. In fact, when the first Volt prototype hits the road next year, its engineers say that it will be capable of no more than 10 miles between charges.

So the original TTAC post (which has since been edited I notice) was a bit off-target and skewed the context of Lutz’s comment, which were, I think, a reasonable defense of GM’s progress on the Volt.

I have not doubted that the Volt can meet it’s performance goals. They aren’t that tough.
The real questions have been, and remain, how much $$$ and when.

The stance of Mark V. at (director of)GM Materials shows us that it can’t happen RESPONSIBLY before 2011-12. So much for when.
The price question is open but GMs estimates have continued to go up and independant scientific opinion is not encouraging.

Bunter

-Um, except that Toy’s blog goon Irv Miller positively declared that the kind of safe, high-energy 40mile-per-charge batteries GM was after were only “theoretical”, in what was a not-so-subtle attack on the volt hype. This was after the head honcho back in Japan said more or less the same at the tokyo motor show. Both of these gentlemen appear now to have been rather mistaken.

Um, stopping saying um so much, it’s rather distracting.

The Plug-in Prius will have less than 10 miles range? Really? Do you have any direct proof from Toyota? If you were in-fact referring to the “less than 10 miles range” of the plug-in Prius *prototypes* (which use NiMH batteries) that have been testing for months now, then that has nothing to do with the production plug-in models coming in 2010. Toyota has already confirmed that those prototypes were a “first wave”. The “second wave” of prototypes (using Li-ion batteries) which are either testing already or about to be, are supposed to have a range of up to 30 miles.

As for li-ion battery problems, “failed spectacularly”? Really? Once again, do you have direct proof that mentions those exact words? If Toyota “failed” with li-ion batteries, why are Toyota and Panasonic both preparing for large-scale li-ion battery production in 2009?

Even IF GM delivers on all of its Volt promises (a HUGE IF) then there will STILL be the problem of the Volt’s price, which is guaranteed to be substantially more expensive than the Gen 3 Prius.

Chevy will launch their first generation all electric/hybrid electric vehicle in the $35k + range using GM’s legendary product launch methodology.

Toyota will launch it’s 3rd generation Prius with a proven refined hybrid powertrain in the sub $25k range with over a million sales worldwide behind it having already proved itself in all weathers with all kinds of drivers and having established beyond any doubt it’s durability, longevity and reliability.

Are there enough dyed-in-the-wool GM fanboys worldwide to buy the Chevy in order to kick Toyota’s ass? Lutzy seems to think so!

I think the battery chemistry pissing matches are (hopefully) quickly becoming passe.

My statement regarding the warm-up phase in extremely cold weather comes straight from the gm-volt web site. That doesn’t mean it’s the final word.

I’ve used RC A123 cells straight out of a -20 degree C freezer before and they’ve worked just fine. Less power than usual, but that’s gonna happen with any battery IMHO. They go down to -30C operating temp apparently. I have access to -70C, but I don’t exactly feel like destroying my battery :)

Regardless, they’re testing the volt in detroit, so it’s not something they’re going to miss an opportunity of testing.

-Um, except for the fact that the plug-in prius will have all of less than 10 miles all electric range.

-Um, except that Toyogurt tried its own hand at advanced lithium ion cells, a la the volt, and failed spectacularly with an overheating lithium cobalt aluminium oxide formula.

-Um, except that Toy’s blog goon Irv Miller positively declared that the kind of safe, high-energy 40mile-per-charge batteries GM was after were only “theoretical”, in what was a not-so-subtle attack on the volt hype. This was after the head honcho back in Japan said more or less the same at the tokyo motor show. Both of these gentlemen appear now to have been rather mistaken.

NO! In cold temperaures, the ICE engine will come on immediately to warm up the batteries.

The range issues under less than optimum circumstance is the big question, and one I am having a very difficult time getting answers to for an article. Nobody involved with EV’s will talk to me, especially after my ZAP Xebra review.

On the other hand, I would just as soon see the demise of GM if it meant the end of the UAW and it’s degenerative effects on this country and our political environment.

Any idea how to run some numbers on the cost v. benefit analysis?