VW drivers tend to see both sides of these equations, taking the good with the bad. VW haters, IMHO, tend to be like fans of other technological near-monopolies, like Canon digital cameras and Microsoft operating systems. They insist that their way is not only the best way, it should be the only way.

Unfortunately, you cannot find a new production vehicle which meets that description. The old TDIs simply produced too much pollution (particulates and nox) and cannot meet the new emission standards. VW no longer makes the TDI and won’t have a new model until mid 2008, by which time other players such as Honda and MB wold have moved in with their own offerings. At most they will enjoy a few months of market control.

I agree that most of VW’s products aren’t so unique. Except for the TDIs. They’re much more rewarding to drive than a hybrid, and return comparable real-world fuel economy. They use renewable fuel, and can be had with manual transmissions. Just where, pray tell, can I go (west of the Atlantic and south of the Great Lakes) to find anything else like that?

Maybe I’m just being bitter after being burned, but I see no reason to own a VW today, there is nothing that they do that is not done better by another manufacturer. Whether its for driving experience, economical transportation, or pseudo-luxury, You are better off with a plethora of other cars.
Their products are sustained by nostalgia and “cuteness”. The original beetle was good because its form followed its function, the new beetle is bad because it is the exact opposite. It appeals to audiences which might buy a laptop because it has a shiny metal casing. (I do wonder what the correlation between mac users and VW owners is , I bet its a rather substantial correlation) Unfortunately for them, cute only gets you so far when it comes to cars.

VWs are built of virgin steel, double-galvanised, so they’re as immune to rust as they come. The expected service life of my turbodiesel engine is measured in hundreds of kilomiles, and the residual value remains amazingly high (I have about $5k in paper equity in a car that’s been leased for four years and financed for two more. Can you beat that?) Wrecks? Well, no car can prevent them, but few cars will protect their passengers any better if they occur.

Yes, my brake light switch is malfunctioning– again. I’ll replace it next week, and next year too, perhaps. But the little nits and niggles that put so many knickers in knots when they happen to VWs have little to do with the usable “life” of a car, IMO.

Yep, I would peg the life of a VW at right around 140k.

If you’re into the leasing game or like to replace your metal ever few years, VW is definitely a consideration. The value quotient falls off a proverbial cliff after the first few years of warranty though. To me the only good VW’s are the ones that aren’t built in high volumes… and they are obviously few and far between.

But I still have fond memories of an 84 Rabbit GTi and a 71 Superbeetle…..

ME ME ME!(raising his hand like a little kid) the more the marrier. Oh wait BMW’s are just as unreliable, I’ll wait.

Hate the company that invented the minivan and the car-based SUV, then stepped aside to let others cash in on the trends? The company that spent lavishly a few years ago to rebuild all their dealerships to a uniform level of architectural gimmickry, instead of investing in better training for mechanics who face a dizzying variety of low-volume models and drivetrains? The company that got sidetracked building Bugattis (to impress the bigwigs’ hired “girlfriends”), rather simply than building a better Bug? The company that brought us fun and fuel-efficient TDI engines, establishing a loyal customer base that’s now abandoned due to lack of new product? Yep, that company.

I even have to admit that there’s nothing in a VW showroom today with any curb appeal to me except for the New Beetle, and you might as well buy a used one, given the scant updating it’s received.

But if VW presents a sorry sight, the other companies are even worse. They’re deep in endless, futile horsepower wars (like the new BMW 1-series that will arrive with 300 hp — who needs that?) They’re streamlined to absurdly acute angles, like the Honda Civic, or sad and undernourished, like the Focus. At least my Golf is a roomy compact I can sit up straight in. And past its early mid-life crisis around 70,000 miles, it’s been pretty reliable. It better be, because I see no replacement coming down the pike.

“You might as well press 2 for Spanish (for those who only speak English of course)”

CRC…when calling a call center, theres a difference?

I called Subaru of America a few times about this dealer and the only thing it helped with was for them to call me back rather than brush me off for weeks and weeks. SOA was helpful but the dealer just didn’t seem to give a damn, I still got crappy service.

I just wish there was a way to avoid the dealer after buying the car, or better yet not even having to buy it through there dealers. I guess I’ll be waiting for the day we can just buy cars over the internet and they have mobile service departments that come to your house to service the car. I can dream ;)

Haven’t you heard? Buying a new VW is like buying an as-is POS from a plaid-suited greaseball. No warranty is either expressed or implied by VWoA. If you use B6 Biodiesel in your TDI, it’s the reason your brake rotors are warped.

Luckily, nothing major on my car has broken, so that’s how I avoid VW dealers. I’ve been to a dealer once for an alignment, which was a year after I bought it. After the treatment I got there, I decided that was the end of stealers touching my car.

I have an ‘03 Jetta TDI, now with about 98500 miles on it. The only major thing that has happened is that the coolant temperature sensor went bad about 2 years ago. It was a $5 part, and took about 15 minutes to change out. Beyond that, it’s been a set of rear brake pads, oil changes (which cost me about $30 in parts for 10k mile intervals), some air/cabin filters, and tires. I’ll be replacing the suspension next year and will be proactive and replace the battery soon ($100 from the dealer parts department). The timing belt is due shortly, which runs about $600 for a complete job my local TDI guru’s garage (The dealer wanted $800 to do a basic timing belt job).

I like VWs, but I’ll never drive a gas model. Not quirky enough for me, hehe. My Jetta is supposedly still worth something like $12000 right now according to KBB, but there’s no way I’d sell it.

I owned a 2000 VW Golf 1.8t and a 2000 VW Jetta 2.0. Both cars were a blast to drive, but horrendous otherwise. Here were the major problems, the minor ones are too numerous to list:

All front windows fell into the doors.
Both cars had multiple MAF and O2 sensor failures.
Golf had 5 (that’s right – F I V E) brake light switch replacements in its life.

Many interior components failed: rubber peeling off of plastic, broken glove box doors, broken arm rest latches, broken visor lights…etc.

Oil pans replaced in both cars due to aluminum pan threads that did not hold up to frequent oil changes.

Jetta 2.0L motor started eating 4 quarts of oil between oil changes – got rid of it at that point.

Golf had transmission slipping problems at around 80,000 miles – dealer said transmission is sealed and should not be touched – got rid of it after that.

I could go on an on – but the end result is I now own and Infiniti and a Jeep and I won’t be back to a VW dealer for a VERY long time.

Funny thing – the Jetta got me a great trade-in value, but the Golf had ABYSMAL trade-in value.

-ted

The price of the TDI is high because its currently the only game in town as far a diesel passenger vehicles. When the new diesels from other manufactures arrive, we can expect prices to drop substantially.

I must say my own experience with VW products (Audi 4000) has really soured me on their “premium” nature. Like many others, I was lured in by the promise of a premium German product. I was not really impressed by the way a “premium” product left me stranded on the side of the highway. I was also unimpressed by the premium price of components. The driving experience was nothing to write home about either, it was slow and the stiff suspension really didn’t help it go around corners much faster. I can honestly say that the Accord which replaced it was superior in all ways, including acceleration and handling.

The dealers really irk me thou, how do you other owners who actually own VW’s deal with them while your car is still in warranty? Our local Subaru dealer is also a VW dealer, actually it is a VW dealer with a pimple sized Subaru limb. I essentially told the Service manager to screw themselves after the constant rudeness, blatant disregard for common curtosy, damage to my car, high prices for simple oil changes($50 for an oil change and they f**ken over filled it), over 6 months to get my radio replaced, software screw ups, never calling back and never fixing anything right. I told her flat out that I am taking my car 2 hours away to a real Subaru dealer rather then give them one more cent of my money or warranty work.

If this is even remotely what you owners have to deal with your crazy, it’s not worth the driving experience. My best friend just brushed it off saying, “yeah they are all like that” like it was nothing, and there were a lot more f-bombs when I told him. I agree with an earlier poster about finding a local guru shop and ditching the dealer once out of warranty, that’s what my brother is doing with the TDI Bug he just got used(dealer wanted to rape him for a new fuel pump, $2000), but what the hell do you do when you HAVE to bring your car in for warranty work. And since this is a VW it needs a lot of warranty work those first 3 years with bits and peaces falling everywhere.

Seriously I want to know how you guys do it since I really liked driving VW’s(1.8T not the 2.5) and if they clean up there act in the future on the reliability I might start considering them again. But only if I can find a way past these Nazi dealerships.

The rewards come in the driving experience, and the selling experience. If I were to offer my five-year old Golf TDI, with anything less than 100 K miles on it, I could expect a bevy of offers at 50% the new price or more. The VW diesel brings a premium of thousands over its used gasser bretheren, and it’s at peak prices now that new ones are temporarily off the market. But who wants to sell a quiet, fast car that gets 35-50 mpg and runs on renewable fuels?

Sure there are hassles involved, and extra expenses that accompany a premium product. But it works out in the long run. Folks told me Apple computers were expensive, too, but I sold my last mac desktop, after three years, for 70% of the new price. Anybody making that kind of return on a Windows box?

Not always true. A relative of mine bought a new 30K MSRP Passat for 5K off this past summer. But for the most part they seem to do a better job than most at managing inventory to avoid high discounts.

Saab has been a natural competitor to VW in the states. Both have favored simple to mod turbo applications and were stylistically different from the domestic and Japanese offerings and both have strayed from their fan bases. I would say that Scion and Mazda have also eaten away at Jetta/Golf sales.

Stuki,

Last year I purchased a 4dr GTI, DSG, package2 and a comparably equipped 328 with leather, xenons, sirius and ipod adapter was over $10K more. The monthly lease costs were closer but still nearly $100 apart. The VW premium has nothing on the BMW premium.

That’s because they all died for the same reason VW is dying now: a combination of so-so to poor reliability, inconsistent quality and high prices. Renault, Alfa Romeo, Fiat, Lancia, and Triumph have all left the U.S. and only Alfa may return.