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	<title>Comments on: Editorial: Detroit Bailout = Thermonuclear, Intergalactic Trade War</title>
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	<description>The Truth About Cars is dedicated to providing candid, unbiased automobile reviews and the latest in auto industry news.</description>
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		<title>By: TireGuy</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/unintended-bailout-consequences-thermonuclear-intergalactic-trade-war/comment-page-1/#comment-992371</link>
		<dc:creator>TireGuy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Nov 2008 04:05:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=162982#comment-992371</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;dwford : 
November 22nd, 2008 at 7:53 am 


Oh, wait. We have the most open market in the world, allow any nation come come dump whatever products they produce with slave labor and wages - killing our homegrown manufacturing base, but when our government considers a rare subsidy for one of our industries, the world is going to bitch??!! 

Congress should pass a reciprocal trade law that says our trade barriers will duplicate the other nations. If a nation has high tariffs on a US import, we would have an equal tariff on their exports to us. Our current problems stem partially from our gross over consumption of cheap shit from overseas anyway. If the DVD player goes up $20, so be it.&lt;/em&gt;

The US has been on the forefront in the last 50 years to tell other countries to open up. Once open, US companies started entering the markets, crushing local companies. Any counteracts have been regarded by the US as unfair trade. Protection of markets was not allowed. The EU has consequently opened up already since long. Subsidies are very much limited, and closely watched by the commission. Other countries have opened as well, as consequence of WTO. Now, suddenly, when the US finds out it has not adopted itself to globalization, now suddenly free competition is bad? This is really hypocrysy at its best.

I hope Congress will have enough balls to tell the D3 to get lost and rearrange themselves through CH11. Any other solution is extremely unfair to other car manufacturers around the world which have cut in the last years their workforce, have developed fuel efficient cars which look nice and reliable and are therefore today in a position to simply compete better on their merits than the D3.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><em>dwford :<br />
November 22nd, 2008 at 7:53 am </p>
<p>Oh, wait. We have the most open market in the world, allow any nation come come dump whatever products they produce with slave labor and wages &#8211; killing our homegrown manufacturing base, but when our government considers a rare subsidy for one of our industries, the world is going to bitch??!! </p>
<p>Congress should pass a reciprocal trade law that says our trade barriers will duplicate the other nations. If a nation has high tariffs on a US import, we would have an equal tariff on their exports to us. Our current problems stem partially from our gross over consumption of cheap shit from overseas anyway. If the DVD player goes up $20, so be it.</em></p>
<p>The US has been on the forefront in the last 50 years to tell other countries to open up. Once open, US companies started entering the markets, crushing local companies. Any counteracts have been regarded by the US as unfair trade. Protection of markets was not allowed. The EU has consequently opened up already since long. Subsidies are very much limited, and closely watched by the commission. Other countries have opened as well, as consequence of WTO. Now, suddenly, when the US finds out it has not adopted itself to globalization, now suddenly free competition is bad? This is really hypocrysy at its best.</p>
<p>I hope Congress will have enough balls to tell the D3 to get lost and rearrange themselves through CH11. Any other solution is extremely unfair to other car manufacturers around the world which have cut in the last years their workforce, have developed fuel efficient cars which look nice and reliable and are therefore today in a position to simply compete better on their merits than the D3.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: CRConrad</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/unintended-bailout-consequences-thermonuclear-intergalactic-trade-war/comment-page-1/#comment-983241</link>
		<dc:creator>CRConrad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Nov 2008 09:21:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=162982#comment-983241</guid>
		<description>B. S. writes some:&lt;blockquote&gt;European Union’s antitrust chief Neelie Kroes admonishes [...] If his warnings are heeded...&lt;/blockquote&gt;HIS warnings???

Mein lieber Herr Schmitt, I think Frau Kroes would not appreciate being taken for a bloke.

HTH!

C.R.C.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->B. S. writes some:<br />
<blockquote>European Union’s antitrust chief Neelie Kroes admonishes [...] If his warnings are heeded&#8230;</p></blockquote>
<p>HIS warnings???</p>
<p>Mein lieber Herr Schmitt, I think Frau Kroes would not appreciate being taken for a bloke.</p>
<p>HTH!</p>
<p>C.R.C.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Honda_Lover</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/unintended-bailout-consequences-thermonuclear-intergalactic-trade-war/comment-page-1/#comment-981911</link>
		<dc:creator>Honda_Lover</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Nov 2008 23:27:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=162982#comment-981911</guid>
		<description>Protectionism &lt;em&gt;feels &lt;/em&gt;real good, but then it comes time to pay the piper. Are you willing to dramatically lower your standard of living to make an ideological point?

Landcrusher - there is a lot of rabble-rousing sentiment bout all of the Big 2.5, especially in the Rustbelt.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->Protectionism <em>feels </em>real good, but then it comes time to pay the piper. Are you willing to dramatically lower your standard of living to make an ideological point?</p>
<p>Landcrusher &#8211; there is a lot of rabble-rousing sentiment bout all of the Big 2.5, especially in the Rustbelt.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: rocket</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/unintended-bailout-consequences-thermonuclear-intergalactic-trade-war/comment-page-1/#comment-979002</link>
		<dc:creator>rocket</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Nov 2008 07:07:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=162982#comment-979002</guid>
		<description>nevermind.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->nevermind.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Landcrusher</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/unintended-bailout-consequences-thermonuclear-intergalactic-trade-war/comment-page-1/#comment-977781</link>
		<dc:creator>Landcrusher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 16:00:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=162982#comment-977781</guid>
		<description>Globalization is one of those terms that means nothing out of context, and not much in. The definition is so varied from speaker to speaker that it almost makes no sense to use the word anymore.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->Globalization is one of those terms that means nothing out of context, and not much in. The definition is so varied from speaker to speaker that it almost makes no sense to use the word anymore.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Landcrusher</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/unintended-bailout-consequences-thermonuclear-intergalactic-trade-war/comment-page-1/#comment-977372</link>
		<dc:creator>Landcrusher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 06:32:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=162982#comment-977372</guid>
		<description>Saving a domestic industry such as auto&#039;s is a time honored exception to the whole protectionism thing. It&#039;s usually not considered protectionist to ensure that you at least have SOME sort of domestic industry in a sector. OTOH, there is no real need for 3 domestics, so they could have a point.  I am in favor of letting at least the first one go, and likely the second. Come talk to me about a bailout for the last man standing, and we will talk.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->Saving a domestic industry such as auto&#8217;s is a time honored exception to the whole protectionism thing. It&#8217;s usually not considered protectionist to ensure that you at least have SOME sort of domestic industry in a sector. OTOH, there is no real need for 3 domestics, so they could have a point.  I am in favor of letting at least the first one go, and likely the second. Come talk to me about a bailout for the last man standing, and we will talk.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: guyincognito</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/unintended-bailout-consequences-thermonuclear-intergalactic-trade-war/comment-page-1/#comment-977262</link>
		<dc:creator>guyincognito</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 05:08:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=162982#comment-977262</guid>
		<description>@ speedlaw : 

&lt;strike&gt;B.S.&lt;/strike&gt;. I politely disagree with you. Globalization is good. Overall, it has been great for people worldwide. For example you cite India. Wages are much higher for the average person and standard of living has been drastically improved.

&quot;Prime Minister Narasimha Rao along with his finance minister Manmohan Singh initiated the economic liberalisation of 1991. The reforms did away with the Licence Raj (investment, industrial and import licensing) and ended many public monopolies, allowing automatic approval of foreign direct investment in many sectors...Since 1990 India has emerged as one of the wealthiest economies in the developing world; during this period, the economy has grown constantly, but with a few major setbacks. This has been accompanied by increases in life expectancy, literacy rates and food security.&quot; 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_India

I disagree with all protectionist trade policies. That said, the system is skewed when countries don&#039;t follow the same rules. It truly is the hieght of hypocrisy for Europe or China to cry foul over a bailout.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->@ speedlaw : </p>
<p><strike>B.S.</strike>. I politely disagree with you. Globalization is good. Overall, it has been great for people worldwide. For example you cite India. Wages are much higher for the average person and standard of living has been drastically improved.</p>
<p>&#8220;Prime Minister Narasimha Rao along with his finance minister Manmohan Singh initiated the economic liberalisation of 1991. The reforms did away with the Licence Raj (investment, industrial and import licensing) and ended many public monopolies, allowing automatic approval of foreign direct investment in many sectors&#8230;Since 1990 India has emerged as one of the wealthiest economies in the developing world; during this period, the economy has grown constantly, but with a few major setbacks. This has been accompanied by increases in life expectancy, literacy rates and food security.&#8221; </p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_India" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_India</a></p>
<p>I disagree with all protectionist trade policies. That said, the system is skewed when countries don&#8217;t follow the same rules. It truly is the hieght of hypocrisy for Europe or China to cry foul over a bailout.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: rob</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/unintended-bailout-consequences-thermonuclear-intergalactic-trade-war/comment-page-1/#comment-977132</link>
		<dc:creator>rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 03:00:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=162982#comment-977132</guid>
		<description>dwford, speedlaw:

Whether we like it or not, it&#039;s a global market. Protectionism is not a good policy. We all remember what happened last time the US decided to act unilaterally (hint: coalition of the willing MY ASS).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->dwford, speedlaw:</p>
<p>Whether we like it or not, it&#8217;s a global market. Protectionism is not a good policy. We all remember what happened last time the US decided to act unilaterally (hint: coalition of the willing MY ASS).<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Jerome10</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/unintended-bailout-consequences-thermonuclear-intergalactic-trade-war/comment-page-1/#comment-976971</link>
		<dc:creator>Jerome10</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 01:02:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=162982#comment-976971</guid>
		<description>Wahh.  I would be willing to bet our subisidies for our auto industry are some of the smallest in the world.  How about when Japan stops the subsidy (including the Yen manipulation) then maybe we can talk?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->Wahh.  I would be willing to bet our subisidies for our auto industry are some of the smallest in the world.  How about when Japan stops the subsidy (including the Yen manipulation) then maybe we can talk?<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: golf4me</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/unintended-bailout-consequences-thermonuclear-intergalactic-trade-war/comment-page-1/#comment-976902</link>
		<dc:creator>golf4me</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 00:04:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=162982#comment-976902</guid>
		<description>dwford: well said. I&#039;ve been saying this for YEARS. I don&#039;t see that having tit-for-tat trade rules as being protectionist, I see it as being fair. Hey, you want to put a 25% tariff on our cars? OK, we&#039;ll do the same. Same for electronics, textiles, food, whatever. You can have &quot;special&quot; deals with individual nations on things like food and raw materials, where you may waive a tarriff imposed on a product they&#039;d like to export to us in exchange for our exports. It could be very simple. I think as a nation, we have a unique ability to be more self-sufficient than most other nations - most of which would love nothing more than for us to fail, and that includes the EU. I think there is some insane attitude, especially amongst liberals that it is wrong to be the best and strongest nation on earth. I honestly can&#039;t figure out why. The taxpayers should DEMAND that this be done BEFORE any bailout money is given, IMO.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->dwford: well said. I&#8217;ve been saying this for YEARS. I don&#8217;t see that having tit-for-tat trade rules as being protectionist, I see it as being fair. Hey, you want to put a 25% tariff on our cars? OK, we&#8217;ll do the same. Same for electronics, textiles, food, whatever. You can have &#8220;special&#8221; deals with individual nations on things like food and raw materials, where you may waive a tarriff imposed on a product they&#8217;d like to export to us in exchange for our exports. It could be very simple. I think as a nation, we have a unique ability to be more self-sufficient than most other nations &#8211; most of which would love nothing more than for us to fail, and that includes the EU. I think there is some insane attitude, especially amongst liberals that it is wrong to be the best and strongest nation on earth. I honestly can&#8217;t figure out why. The taxpayers should DEMAND that this be done BEFORE any bailout money is given, IMO.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: speedlaw</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/unintended-bailout-consequences-thermonuclear-intergalactic-trade-war/comment-page-1/#comment-976561</link>
		<dc:creator>speedlaw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 19:07:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=162982#comment-976561</guid>
		<description>globalization was a good deal only for the top 10 % of the world&#039;s population. Don&#039;t let the cheap goods at Wal Mart fool you.

When our industry competes against some company with no pollution laws, or labor protections, they lose.

The local plant closes...the workers lose.

Your job is outsourced to Mexico, India or Haiti, wherever the population is poor and powerless.

Globalization was not in the best interests of the people.  It was, however, a huge bonus to the ruling class.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->globalization was a good deal only for the top 10 % of the world&#8217;s population. Don&#8217;t let the cheap goods at Wal Mart fool you.</p>
<p>When our industry competes against some company with no pollution laws, or labor protections, they lose.</p>
<p>The local plant closes&#8230;the workers lose.</p>
<p>Your job is outsourced to Mexico, India or Haiti, wherever the population is poor and powerless.</p>
<p>Globalization was not in the best interests of the people.  It was, however, a huge bonus to the ruling class.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: taxman100</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/unintended-bailout-consequences-thermonuclear-intergalactic-trade-war/comment-page-1/#comment-976251</link>
		<dc:creator>taxman100</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 16:26:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=162982#comment-976251</guid>
		<description>One way to get rid of bad trade laws is to just not enforce them.  

It is a race to the bottom, and when you were on top, you have farther to fall.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->One way to get rid of bad trade laws is to just not enforce them.  </p>
<p>It is a race to the bottom, and when you were on top, you have farther to fall.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Bertel Schmitt</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/unintended-bailout-consequences-thermonuclear-intergalactic-trade-war/comment-page-1/#comment-976201</link>
		<dc:creator>Bertel Schmitt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 15:56:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=162982#comment-976201</guid>
		<description>@Hank: As noted in today&#039;s WAS: &quot;The consensus in Europe is the package is dead in the water, because it needs the consensus from the non auto making members.&quot; These measures must be passed by unanimous vote. Detroit&#039;s 3 stooges will fly into DC on pigs before this will happen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->@Hank: As noted in today&#8217;s WAS: &#8220;The consensus in Europe is the package is dead in the water, because it needs the consensus from the non auto making members.&#8221; These measures must be passed by unanimous vote. Detroit&#8217;s 3 stooges will fly into DC on pigs before this will happen.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Bertel Schmitt</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/unintended-bailout-consequences-thermonuclear-intergalactic-trade-war/comment-page-1/#comment-976142</link>
		<dc:creator>Bertel Schmitt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 15:20:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=162982#comment-976142</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;If a nation has high tariffs on a US import, we would have an equal tariff on their exports to us.&lt;/i&gt;

China would applaud. They would immediately do away with any quotas on textile imports. Easy: They don&#039;t have any.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><i>If a nation has high tariffs on a US import, we would have an equal tariff on their exports to us.</i></p>
<p>China would applaud. They would immediately do away with any quotas on textile imports. Easy: They don&#8217;t have any.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Hank</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/unintended-bailout-consequences-thermonuclear-intergalactic-trade-war/comment-page-1/#comment-976071</link>
		<dc:creator>Hank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 14:53:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=162982#comment-976071</guid>
		<description>OK, I get the hypocrisy angle on our trying to force others open while talking of clamping down our own...that&#039;s a fair charge.  But unfairly subsidizing our auto industry is a charge coming from the &lt;em&gt;EU&lt;/em&gt;?  The same EU that is contemplating a bailout ($50,000,000,000) that&#039;s twice the bailout being considered for all the Big 3?  That EU?  And that&#039;s &lt;em&gt;not &lt;/em&gt;hypocrisy?

http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/blog/europeinsight/archives/2008/11/push_for_europe.html?chan=globalbiz_europe+index+page_top+stories

Hmmm.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->OK, I get the hypocrisy angle on our trying to force others open while talking of clamping down our own&#8230;that&#8217;s a fair charge.  But unfairly subsidizing our auto industry is a charge coming from the <em>EU</em>?  The same EU that is contemplating a bailout ($50,000,000,000) that&#8217;s twice the bailout being considered for all the Big 3?  That EU?  And that&#8217;s <em>not </em>hypocrisy?</p>
<p><a href="http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/blog/europeinsight/archives/2008/11/push_for_europe.html?chan=globalbiz_europe+index+page_top+stories" rel="nofollow">http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/blog/europeinsight/archives/2008/11/push_for_europe.html?chan=globalbiz_europe+index+page_top+stories</a></p>
<p>Hmmm.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: GS650G</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/unintended-bailout-consequences-thermonuclear-intergalactic-trade-war/comment-page-1/#comment-975991</link>
		<dc:creator>GS650G</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 14:18:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=162982#comment-975991</guid>
		<description>History teaches us the great depression was kicked off by taxes and protectionism. There is no difference today. Do as I say, not as I do will have it&#039;s consequences.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->History teaches us the great depression was kicked off by taxes and protectionism. There is no difference today. Do as I say, not as I do will have it&#8217;s consequences.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: dwford</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/unintended-bailout-consequences-thermonuclear-intergalactic-trade-war/comment-page-1/#comment-975911</link>
		<dc:creator>dwford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 12:53:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=162982#comment-975911</guid>
		<description>Oh, wait. We have the most open market in the world, allow any nation come come dump whatever products they produce with slave labor and wages - killing our homegrown manufacturing base, but when our government considers a rare subsidy for one of our industries, the world is going to bitch??!! 

Congress should pass a reciprocal trade law that says our trade barriers will duplicate the other nations. If a nation has high tariffs on a US import, we would have an equal tariff on their exports to us. Our current problems stem partially from our gross over consumption of cheap shit from overseas anyway. If the DVD player goes up $20, so be it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->Oh, wait. We have the most open market in the world, allow any nation come come dump whatever products they produce with slave labor and wages &#8211; killing our homegrown manufacturing base, but when our government considers a rare subsidy for one of our industries, the world is going to bitch??!! </p>
<p>Congress should pass a reciprocal trade law that says our trade barriers will duplicate the other nations. If a nation has high tariffs on a US import, we would have an equal tariff on their exports to us. Our current problems stem partially from our gross over consumption of cheap shit from overseas anyway. If the DVD player goes up $20, so be it.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
]]></content:encoded>
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