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	<title>Comments on: UK Police State Flexes its Muscles on Motorists</title>
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		<title>By: Adonis</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/uk-police-state-flexes-its-muscles-on-motorists/comment-page-1/#comment-824831</link>
		<dc:creator>Adonis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Oct 2008 04:14:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=96582#comment-824831</guid>
		<description>I really don&#039;t like to see this, because I&#039;m seeing the beginnings of that kind of universal surveillance in Phoenix, Arizona.  Apparently it&#039;s the first city in the nation to really roll out extensive cameras everywhere.  There were 50 new cameras put in just recently, explicitly to make money.  As a side note, government officials say that speeding is dangerous, so these cameras are clearly necessary.  Think of The Children (tm) and all that.  

I want to do what I can to make sure it fails, so other states don&#039;t get inspired by the amount of money they&#039;re making.  However, I&#039;m not sure how to do that.  The government loves money, but people hate it when taxes go up (imagine that!), so there are imaginative new ways to fleece the average citizen of their money every year.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->I really don&#8217;t like to see this, because I&#8217;m seeing the beginnings of that kind of universal surveillance in Phoenix, Arizona.  Apparently it&#8217;s the first city in the nation to really roll out extensive cameras everywhere.  There were 50 new cameras put in just recently, explicitly to make money.  As a side note, government officials say that speeding is dangerous, so these cameras are clearly necessary.  Think of The Children &#8482; and all that.  </p>
<p>I want to do what I can to make sure it fails, so other states don&#8217;t get inspired by the amount of money they&#8217;re making.  However, I&#8217;m not sure how to do that.  The government loves money, but people hate it when taxes go up (imagine that!), so there are imaginative new ways to fleece the average citizen of their money every year.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Tommy</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/uk-police-state-flexes-its-muscles-on-motorists/comment-page-1/#comment-824442</link>
		<dc:creator>Tommy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Oct 2008 00:03:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=96582#comment-824442</guid>
		<description>Guilty until proven innocent, once again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->Guilty until proven innocent, once again.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Voice of Sweden</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/uk-police-state-flexes-its-muscles-on-motorists/comment-page-1/#comment-823832</link>
		<dc:creator>Voice of Sweden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Oct 2008 16:57:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=96582#comment-823832</guid>
		<description>Let me tell you why so many countries in Europe like camera surveillance. The court and justice system is rigged in the criminals favour - it&#039;s very difficult to get anybody into jail - especially if there are not absolutely waterproof evidence.

There are often no 100% laymen jury in the courts, no &quot;Barry-Bobs&quot; and &quot;Marry-Sues&quot; that are sure that that *racial slur describing a person* is guilty as h*ll.

So to get the bad people into jail, a film of the event is very useful - therefore cameras are so much loved.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->Let me tell you why so many countries in Europe like camera surveillance. The court and justice system is rigged in the criminals favour &#8211; it&#8217;s very difficult to get anybody into jail &#8211; especially if there are not absolutely waterproof evidence.</p>
<p>There are often no 100% laymen jury in the courts, no &#8220;Barry-Bobs&#8221; and &#8220;Marry-Sues&#8221; that are sure that that *racial slur describing a person* is guilty as h*ll.</p>
<p>So to get the bad people into jail, a film of the event is very useful &#8211; therefore cameras are so much loved.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: shaker</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/uk-police-state-flexes-its-muscles-on-motorists/comment-page-1/#comment-823681</link>
		<dc:creator>shaker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Oct 2008 12:50:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=96582#comment-823681</guid>
		<description>I suppose that the barrier to such draconian enforcement has always been money - they couldn&#039;t afford to put that many cops on the streets.
But now, technology puts the &quot;police state&quot; even closer to reality.
Kind of reminds me of the two &quot;robot cops&quot; in the TV show &lt;em&gt;Futurama&lt;/em&gt;; one is stupid, the other is a nightstick-wielding a-hole...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->I suppose that the barrier to such draconian enforcement has always been money &#8211; they couldn&#8217;t afford to put that many cops on the streets.<br />
But now, technology puts the &#8220;police state&#8221; even closer to reality.<br />
Kind of reminds me of the two &#8220;robot cops&#8221; in the TV show <em>Futurama</em>; one is stupid, the other is a nightstick-wielding a-hole&#8230;<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: IGB</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/uk-police-state-flexes-its-muscles-on-motorists/comment-page-1/#comment-823461</link>
		<dc:creator>IGB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Oct 2008 23:46:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=96582#comment-823461</guid>
		<description>An actual editorial series about the erosion of motorist rights (if there are any) with a catchy name would be a good regular read on TTAC.

Sit behind the wheel, surrender your civil rights. Any cop is quick to point out that driving is a privilege and not a right in this or any other country.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->An actual editorial series about the erosion of motorist rights (if there are any) with a catchy name would be a good regular read on TTAC.</p>
<p>Sit behind the wheel, surrender your civil rights. Any cop is quick to point out that driving is a privilege and not a right in this or any other country.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Gardiner Westbound</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/uk-police-state-flexes-its-muscles-on-motorists/comment-page-1/#comment-823232</link>
		<dc:creator>Gardiner Westbound</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Oct 2008 20:23:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=96582#comment-823232</guid>
		<description>Apprehending car thieves, suspended drivers and the occasional terrorist is a good thing in my view, whatever the methodology.

I am more concerned about revenue generating devices including red light and speed cameras that tend to create far more serious issues than they resolve.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->Apprehending car thieves, suspended drivers and the occasional terrorist is a good thing in my view, whatever the methodology.</p>
<p>I am more concerned about revenue generating devices including red light and speed cameras that tend to create far more serious issues than they resolve.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: speedlaw</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/uk-police-state-flexes-its-muscles-on-motorists/comment-page-1/#comment-823201</link>
		<dc:creator>speedlaw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Oct 2008 19:37:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=96582#comment-823201</guid>
		<description>Thank you RF for sounding the alarm.

While Down Under and the Empire have different laws, and some whack-ass attitudes about law enforcement (see, 1776, Boston Tea Party, etc) the camera merchants see total market saturation and like any business need new markets.

Here we have a great big financial problem, so the money tail will wag the traffic safety dog.

Please, please please keep this up.  We have to fight every scamera attempt at every turn.  I for one don&#039;t want to wake up in the world of endless GATSO and &quot;intelligent speed adaptation&quot; (BIG BROTHER is watching)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->Thank you RF for sounding the alarm.</p>
<p>While Down Under and the Empire have different laws, and some whack-ass attitudes about law enforcement (see, 1776, Boston Tea Party, etc) the camera merchants see total market saturation and like any business need new markets.</p>
<p>Here we have a great big financial problem, so the money tail will wag the traffic safety dog.</p>
<p>Please, please please keep this up.  We have to fight every scamera attempt at every turn.  I for one don&#8217;t want to wake up in the world of endless GATSO and &#8220;intelligent speed adaptation&#8221; (BIG BROTHER is watching)<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: ihatetrees</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/uk-police-state-flexes-its-muscles-on-motorists/comment-page-1/#comment-823072</link>
		<dc:creator>ihatetrees</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Oct 2008 16:58:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=96582#comment-823072</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;‘We know who the criminals are, but we can’t always secure prosecutions.&#039;&lt;/i&gt;

That&#039;s the money quote.
My guess that they&#039;re mimicking what goes on in many US jurisdictions. Drivers with means, legitimate income, and valuable time are fined/harassed extensively. Chronic offenders with zero funds (and flexible, welfare enabled schedules) are let go with a slap on the wrist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><i>‘We know who the criminals are, but we can’t always secure prosecutions.&#8217;</i></p>
<p>That&#8217;s the money quote.<br />
My guess that they&#8217;re mimicking what goes on in many US jurisdictions. Drivers with means, legitimate income, and valuable time are fined/harassed extensively. Chronic offenders with zero funds (and flexible, welfare enabled schedules) are let go with a slap on the wrist.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: JEC</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/uk-police-state-flexes-its-muscles-on-motorists/comment-page-1/#comment-823021</link>
		<dc:creator>JEC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Oct 2008 16:15:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=96582#comment-823021</guid>
		<description>The times are changing, same as always. Latest BS on this side of the pond is an Ontario MP who wants to impose mandatory 150 kmh (90-ish mph) limiters on all vehicles. That&#039;s on top of new speeding laws (tickets for 5 kmh over limit, instant license suspension and car impound for 50kmh over the posted limit, raised fines all around, much ado about stopping nonexistent &quot;street racing&quot;) a crackdown on vehicle modification (not stock? Illegal. Goes for lights, exhausts, mirrors, pretty much anything they can possibly ticket you for. And they have been ticketing people with stock cars because some items appear aftermarket.) and a hike in registration rates for &quot;blacklisted&quot; motorcycles (an arbitrary list determines if a bike is a sport bike or not, with criteria mainly based on cosmetic appearance rather than actual performance).

Dammit I&#039;m getting angry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->The times are changing, same as always. Latest BS on this side of the pond is an Ontario MP who wants to impose mandatory 150 kmh (90-ish mph) limiters on all vehicles. That&#8217;s on top of new speeding laws (tickets for 5 kmh over limit, instant license suspension and car impound for 50kmh over the posted limit, raised fines all around, much ado about stopping nonexistent &#8220;street racing&#8221;) a crackdown on vehicle modification (not stock? Illegal. Goes for lights, exhausts, mirrors, pretty much anything they can possibly ticket you for. And they have been ticketing people with stock cars because some items appear aftermarket.) and a hike in registration rates for &#8220;blacklisted&#8221; motorcycles (an arbitrary list determines if a bike is a sport bike or not, with criteria mainly based on cosmetic appearance rather than actual performance).</p>
<p>Dammit I&#8217;m getting angry.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: beeb375</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/uk-police-state-flexes-its-muscles-on-motorists/comment-page-1/#comment-822952</link>
		<dc:creator>beeb375</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Oct 2008 15:43:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=96582#comment-822952</guid>
		<description>Ah yes, the constitution that did SO much to stop things like the PATRIOT Act... http://www.scn.org/ccapa/pa-vs-const.html

You are right about the relative lack of fuss made when things like this happen though. For whatever reason, we do seem to be a nation that take a near total disinterest in such things, myself included. Perhaps we do trust the government too much, time will tell.

Oh, and I&#039;m not sure if this is what you&#039;re implying, but for the benefit of anyone else who thinks the UK has no form of &#039;constitution&#039;, give this a read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_the_United_Kingdom</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->Ah yes, the constitution that did SO much to stop things like the PATRIOT Act&#8230; <a href="http://www.scn.org/ccapa/pa-vs-const.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.scn.org/ccapa/pa-vs-const.html</a></p>
<p>You are right about the relative lack of fuss made when things like this happen though. For whatever reason, we do seem to be a nation that take a near total disinterest in such things, myself included. Perhaps we do trust the government too much, time will tell.</p>
<p>Oh, and I&#8217;m not sure if this is what you&#8217;re implying, but for the benefit of anyone else who thinks the UK has no form of &#8216;constitution&#8217;, give this a read: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_the_United_Kingdom" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_the_United_Kingdom</a><!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Orangutan</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/uk-police-state-flexes-its-muscles-on-motorists/comment-page-1/#comment-822921</link>
		<dc:creator>Orangutan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Oct 2008 15:36:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=96582#comment-822921</guid>
		<description>&quot;If you&#039;re not breaking the law you have nothing to fear&quot;, I believe the line goes. One reason I thank god (metaphorically) for the Constitution. Britons seem to love to throw away their rights and privileges so that the government can employ more people and make more money. The speed at which the government there grows and intrudes into the lives of its populace is simply astounding. I don&#039;t live there so I can&#039;t keep up as well as I would like but they sure don&#039;t seem to have much of a backlash against the usurpation of their civil liberties. Maybe they simply accept the lie that it is necessary. Not everyone may like the NRA and ACLU here but they serve a vital purpose in preventing, if only slightly sometimes, unConstitutional and otherwise illegal and unsanctioned behavior by various levels of government. Safety and security cannot be secured through tyranny, the inevitable destination of these efforts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->&#8220;If you&#8217;re not breaking the law you have nothing to fear&#8221;, I believe the line goes. One reason I thank god (metaphorically) for the Constitution. Britons seem to love to throw away their rights and privileges so that the government can employ more people and make more money. The speed at which the government there grows and intrudes into the lives of its populace is simply astounding. I don&#8217;t live there so I can&#8217;t keep up as well as I would like but they sure don&#8217;t seem to have much of a backlash against the usurpation of their civil liberties. Maybe they simply accept the lie that it is necessary. Not everyone may like the NRA and ACLU here but they serve a vital purpose in preventing, if only slightly sometimes, unConstitutional and otherwise illegal and unsanctioned behavior by various levels of government. Safety and security cannot be secured through tyranny, the inevitable destination of these efforts.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Landcrusher</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/uk-police-state-flexes-its-muscles-on-motorists/comment-page-1/#comment-822912</link>
		<dc:creator>Landcrusher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Oct 2008 15:35:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=96582#comment-822912</guid>
		<description>By all means, hassle everyone because, in the process, the bad guys might have to change their plans.

Next thing you know, they will apply ridiculous taxation on all high incomes because some of those incomes were made by people who may have been cheating.

Yo! Government Dudes!  The bad guys don&#039;t have to stay on schedule. They simply adapt their lives to your silly schemes. Meanwhile, all the honest folk get their lives taxed away by all the crap they have to do to keep up with the bureaucracy.

The bad guys hang out in the pub all week, they don&#039;t go to work. They only need to drive once a week to commit their crime. They don&#039;t have to spend their time ensuring their cars have all the right papers because they can simply steal the papers, or the car itself, when they need it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->By all means, hassle everyone because, in the process, the bad guys might have to change their plans.</p>
<p>Next thing you know, they will apply ridiculous taxation on all high incomes because some of those incomes were made by people who may have been cheating.</p>
<p>Yo! Government Dudes!  The bad guys don&#8217;t have to stay on schedule. They simply adapt their lives to your silly schemes. Meanwhile, all the honest folk get their lives taxed away by all the crap they have to do to keep up with the bureaucracy.</p>
<p>The bad guys hang out in the pub all week, they don&#8217;t go to work. They only need to drive once a week to commit their crime. They don&#8217;t have to spend their time ensuring their cars have all the right papers because they can simply steal the papers, or the car itself, when they need it.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: beeb375</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/uk-police-state-flexes-its-muscles-on-motorists/comment-page-1/#comment-822891</link>
		<dc:creator>beeb375</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Oct 2008 15:33:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=96582#comment-822891</guid>
		<description>Perhaps my attitude on this matter is due to me only being born in the late 80&#039;s, and seeing this kind of thing celebrated on TV shows (i.e. UK versions of COPS-like programs) and basically growing up with it...

However, if I happened to be caught in an operation like this driving while disqualified, or carrying £100 of weed in a bag on the front seat, I wouldn&#039;t be cursing them for invading civil liberties and whatnot, I&#039;d merely see it as bad luck, and a foreseeable consequence of breaking the law.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->Perhaps my attitude on this matter is due to me only being born in the late 80&#8217;s, and seeing this kind of thing celebrated on TV shows (i.e. UK versions of COPS-like programs) and basically growing up with it&#8230;</p>
<p>However, if I happened to be caught in an operation like this driving while disqualified, or carrying £100 of weed in a bag on the front seat, I wouldn&#8217;t be cursing them for invading civil liberties and whatnot, I&#8217;d merely see it as bad luck, and a foreseeable consequence of breaking the law.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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