Given how the vehicle’s reputation precedes itself (see above) I felt like I was “trespassing” in a way by driving it, given that I am not a card-carrying member of Al Gore’s Global Warmingnetics Climatology crew.

The verdict on it is mixed. A pretty good around-town car. It handles strangely, because it is a heavy car, but the weight is all below the CG. The thing was useless on the freeway. Once the battery is out and you’re on heat-cycle power alone, that thing is the most anemic vehicle I’ve ever driven.

One thing about the Prius experience though that I think indicates hybrids are here to stay is the torque it had. Electric motors have so much torque for their power, and it can be so finely controlled. Those attributes were apparent in the Prius, especially taking off from a stoplight. Strange as it was, you felt like you were accelerating much faster than you were just because it felt so solid in acceleration with all that torque. I could see a very high-performance car constructed as a hybrid with a relatively lightweight high-discharge, low capacity battery and electric motors just for things like launch and traction control. In that context, electric-motivated road cars do have a unique performance quality about them. And if that quality can be felt through something as novacained and underpowered as a Prius, that bodes well for future developments that way.

Also, you do get addicted to the MPG meter on the MFD in the dash. Its like a game trying to get your mileage up. And with all that care trying to maximize my mileage driving around Ft. Collins, I never got a better average than 46. Geo Metro does better on gas and out-accelerates the thing. ‘Nuff said. Don’t buy one. But it was an interesting experience nonetheless.

Yes, I think 20 years from now, Toyota will recycle these batteries. They’re certainly far more likely to do so than GM is to be around then to fix any of their cars; or VW is to maintain their emissions controls on their diesel engines.

Landcrusher, I supplied you excerpts and pointed you to the thread. You’re nothing more than a sore loser.

But I notice that your criticism also only addresses the straw man of a study that I didn’t cite, and that I’ve only responded by listing battery concerns. Care to acknowledge the more important point that they add mechanical complexity and cost, regardless of application? OR that a hybrid, by definition, requires an ICE? Is it, for some reason, ok to callously disregard the cost of this double manufacturing? This is a straight up environmental and financial cost.

Try forgetting the rest of the thread, and take his statement which you quoted, out of context, as I have (I am not accusing you of taking his words out of context, I am merely pointing out that is what I have done because I didn’t even know who is quoted). That statement stands on it’s own merits. It is easily defended, and does not reference the study you just cited. (btw, I would not say that the study was clearly refuted on TTAC either. The methodology of end of life costs was pointed out to be rather fishy.)

At any rate, you now see the problem with SUV hate. SUV hate and Prius hate are so analogous, it’s almost funny. Both are based on a few facts, a lot of bullshit, and many false conclusions.

OUT.

google: hummer prius study site:thetruthaboutcars.com

first link: http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/new-study-disses-prius/

References the infamous CNW study, as per this comment:

The article loses any shred of credibility in the last paragraph, when it mentions the CNW study that claimed a Hummer was more environmentally friendly than a Prius. Calling the study “controversial” is inadequate; it was entirely bullshit.

Another good chunk:

Folks, ya gotta take these studies with a grain of salt. Okay, a dumptruck of salt.

And the whole battery thing. Look, the Prius has been on the road for 10 years now. Anybody who’s still bleating that tired old “batteries in the landfill” saw can be easily identified as somebody who hasn’t been paying attention. If it’s an average joe or jane, I can forgive that to some extent.

But readers of this site probably should know better…long battery life and recycling has been mentioned many times by myself or other Prius owners.

And of course, if it’s a member of the press repeating such nonsense, then I think it’s okay to pass judgement on them. They’re not doing a minimum of research. They’re not paying attention. Or they are letting their bias run rampant. Or they’re in SOMEBODY’s pocket. In any event, it disqualifies them from any further respect in their profession.

There’s more. Read the remaining links if you like.

Your statement advances your argument not one bit. You basically said his points were false without backing it up, and then said that he deserved ad hominem attacks and rudeness from you because he disagrees with you. Nice.

yes…care to refute the claims that hybrids are more expensive than (already expensive to most americans) cars and that they will remain so, that mass production of batteries hasn’t already caused numerous environmental tragedies (in manufacture, recycling and extraction), and that hybrids don’t have to also carry an ICE engine and therefore increase their initial environmental cost in manufacturing? Anything besides an attack on me personally?

If you repeat claims from shill studies that have been debunked about ten thousand times, including on this very site, don’t expect to be treated with kid gloves.

Really? Hannity?! Left coast liberal you are talking to here, and isn’t Hannity the one who brings people’s statements into doubt without providing any reasonable explanation as to why they’re wrong? I do agree with the climate change theory, do agree with the greenhouse gas hypothesis, and am starting to suspect you just like pissing people off online.

I don’t know that I disagree with Wolven’s comment noticing how touchy people are about their Prius’. A little off his rocker calling liberals communists, but the idea that people who have invested up to 35k on being right about the environmental debate (and who have mostly been in the front lines screaming bloody murder about SUVs) might get a little pissy when faced with a debate on the merits of that purchase dosen’t seem so far fetched. I mean I’ll be the first to admit the shortcomings of my car (low rev limit, low hp, awful emissions, shaky engine, heavy engine) and I couldn’t honestly get that angry if it was nominated for a TWAT, and if I was a Prius owner I’m pretty sure I could do the same (low revs, no torque, excess weight, excess cost, ugly, handles poorly, etc…) But then, I don’t associate my car with a major belief system of my own or link it in any way to my social status (it says “I’m cheap” and “he’s poor” in that order without any help from me).

You yourself are more like a Hannity – FUDding with a smile and expecting not to be called on it. Like this crap:

battery related resource extraction, potential industrial accidents with god knows what consequences, the fact that hybrids are currently too expensive to meaningfully replace a diverse vehicle fleet, and that fact that hybrids all need to lug around ICE engines anyway (keeping in mind the environmental costs of manufacturing as well)

For YEARS we’ve had to listen to every slam, slight, scorn and derision they could hurl at the “EVIL” SUV, and we were just supposed to accept their (self) righteous proclamations as “truth”.

But isn’t it funny how things change when the shoes on the other foot? How DARE anyone critisize their holy chariot? Why, that’s just BLASPHEMY!! Just gotta love them “open minded”, “free speech defending”, “different strokes for different folks” liberals communists…

Besides, now that I think about it, none of the conservatives I know could care less about the prius, less gas and more space are fairly universal positives. No, the only people I know who dislike this car are young, opinionated, relatively well-informed (about cars) enthusiasts who think that an automotive appliance is a concept that GM stood for during our childhoods. We hated 80’s oldsmobiles and buicks, and now we hate the Prius. Gay hating, environmentalist flaming Limbaughnites we are not.

The Prius is the only vehicle on the road with what can be described as a 21st century drivetrain. Toyota set out a mission for it and built the car to that mission, maximum utility, maximum fuel economy. It certainly isn’t a driver’s vehicle but it’s also not bad. And it’s not a bad place to spend a little time if you must go somewhere, it’s comfortable and airy inside. Beats the hell out of those claustrophobic 300 windows.

And some of you can stop reading motives into Prius owners reasons for buying the car. Yes, some owners are certainly concerned about environmental impact and they are grateful that they can buy a car that minizes that to some extent. Some believe that gas will go up, significantly, and the car will pay for itself in savings. Some just captivated by the idea of recapturing energy when braking. The only Prius owner I know who can be described as openly pious is simply openly pious about his religion.

—

I wish to nominate the Saturn Outlook. Not only is it emblematic of badge-engineering excess, it’s the most obvious sign that Saturn has lost the plot. Saturn was all about practical little cars. A Traverse makes some sense, perhpas, for Suburban owners downsizing to a CUV but there’s no way the traditional Saturn owner would be looking to move into the Outlook. All it can do is steal sales from another GM sales channel.

I also nominate the Vue. As I said, Saturn was all about practical little cars and the old Vue wasn’t a great extension of the Saturn paradigm into cute-ute but it made at least a little sense and it was as close to practical as you could get in compact ute-dom. The new Vue compares so badly to a Rav or CR-V as to be embarassing. The new Vue is overweight and overwrought and is just not a Saturn.

Like it or not, it’s a well-designed vehicle that gets exceptional mileage in everyday use, insane comparisons at 80+ MPH sprints aside, and it’s very reliable. It’s boring? As mentioned, it has it’s own style of fun. It would presumably be possible to tune the powertrain to take advantage of the impressive off-idle torque of the electric motor, but there’s not chance of a manual transmission, and, at the end of the day, it’s not what people want. Enthusiasts are the minority. Toyota has made a good product that people want.

It’s fine if you don’t like it, but it’s nonsensical and brings down the level of discussion to essentially say “I don’t like this car, therefore it is a bad car.” These awards exist to call out the car companies when they just didn’t give a shit: Caliber, Compass, G3, 9-7, MKX, etc. Toyota very clearly gave a shit about the Prius, and turned out an exceptional product.

-Pontiac G3
-Pontiac G5
-Pontiac G6

-Chevy Traverse
-Saturn Outlook
-Buick Enclave
-GMC Acadia
These are the most overrated SUV’s of all time. They are OK, and just that, and the fact that the press humps them like they are the domestic auto industry’s second coming is appalling, and immediately puts them on the list. They are not that good. They are not that efficient. They are not as good as the competition.

-Chevy Colorado/Isuzu i-Series
-Any GMT-360 platform vehicle
-Chevy Impala

-Ford Edge
-Lincoln MKX

I could go on, thats enough.

“Hysteria” is the perfect word to use.

All reasonable people want to improve mpg, reduce pollution, recycle, etc. But it is not and should not be a religion, nor is it a point of any particular virtue. The doomsday climate crowd seem to be able to make themselves feel better only by tsk-tsking others.

To wit: the retarded “Earth Liberation Front” who like to set SUVs and ex-burban housing developments ablaze. I wonder how good all the burning rubber, foam, electrical wire, chemicals, etc., are for the environment? No matter, because the perpetrators “get their message out.”

It’s kind of how Rush Limbaugh and his idiot followers see themselves. The ELF, Earth First!, etc., believe that they are the sole possessors of the truth, and the rest of us are too blind/selfish/stupid to understand it.

Anyhoo, give me my old, reliable, fun to drive Saturn SL five-speed, with 40 mpg on the highway and 32-35 in the city, anyday over the slow, uncomfortable, hideous-looking, piece of crap, Toyota Prius!

Just as a tail-finned 1957 Chevy says something about a public obsessed with the jet age, so do Hybrids say something about the global warming hysteria. (And you know it is a hysteria when dissenters are mocked as above. They also mocked me for predicting $30-$50 oil.)

The more vigorously people argue in defense of Hybrids, the more they prove that Hybrids belong at the top of this list.

Rush Limbaugh is a fat-assed, drug-addled, blow hard who makes a great living telling frightened, paranoid, non-critical thinkers that some “other” is out to get them. It can be gays, blacks, Nancy Pelosi, or whom/whatever. Doesn’t matter, really.

The Toyota Prius is an over-hyped, over-priced, rolling piece of shit that is purchased, in the main, by people who never have and never will derive any pleasure whatsoever out of driving an automobile. They never even expect to. (The Prius is to automobiles what a can of Ensure is to a Prime Rib dinner. Both do the job, but one is much more enjoyable.) The Prius is simply jewelry for the greenies or, more accurately, for those who want to be perceived as being green.

You can hate Rush Limbaugh and loathe the Toyota Prius. They are not mutually exclusive. For me, both things are true at the same time!