You completely missed the point. My comment was in response to a poster using photographic evidence of stuck Hummers as proof that they aren’t good off road.

As for reliability and efficiency in tank designs, I have to say that they can be important, but are not nearly as important relatively as they are in cars.

The WWII Tiger or Panther tank was much less reliable and efficient than the Sherman, but most Sherman crews would have gladly traded up. It was the guys with stars on their hats, and titles before their names that preferred the cheaper, more efficient, and reliable Sherman, along with higher casualties, to a design like the Tiger.

If we were going to fight today, our leaders would go for the Abrams over a more efficient design because we have a greater abhorrence to casualties than we did in WWII. Also, we have recently proven that a column of our Abrams and Brads can slice through much greater numbers of inferior designs like they were butter. Gotta love that!

It’s all relative.

Abrams are considered good tanks because it’s the best we have got. If it weren’t for the Japanese manufactures, GM Malibu would have been the best we have got.

If tanks are in a mass market and there are open competitions, the Abrams will have the same fate as the GM cars. Reliable and fuel-efficient tanks from Japan would dominate.

Now THAT is a comical ststement. Land Rover? JUNK!

It’s nice to see that good manners and the level of knowledge on this site is as high as ever :)Selective quoting and well informed responses like that are always welcome and really add to the value of this site.

Is there going to be another round of the ten best cars? Or was that a 1 trick pony?

Ten Best on its way…

On Hummers, the psychological point of those vehicles is for the driver/owner to display naked aggression to anyone who crosses their path. Gee, no wonder many people are turned off.

However, my wife, who works at the red cross, pointed out that those were red cross-spec hummers. She sees them all the time at her agency’s parking lot, and they’re here in case of disasters. So it’s really wasn’t an individual hummer owner who rescued people, like the ad implied, but an NGO vehicle instead…..

Well, you could make the argument that the mere fact that the Red Cross chooses Hummers for their vehicles is testimony to how rugged they are. Mercedes is currently running ads for their SUVs using this theme (”You may not have to perform a mountain rescue, but we design our vehicles so you could”).

What is happening here? And then the Chevy USA is getting the new OPTRA to replace the Cobalt, and not an Astra-variant sedan?

It sort of looks like the Cobalt stays, but Chevy also gets the new Optra, which is just stupid.

What is even more bizarre is that GM is starting to compete with itself in Europe.

Chevy Aveo vs. Opel Corsa
Chevy Optra vs. Opel Astra
Chevy Nubira vs. Opel Insignia
Chevy Captiva vs. Opel Antara (same car!)

By “Chevy,” I mean Daewoo. The Opels are more upscale, but in the same class of vehicle.

What is happening here? And then the Chevy USA is getting the new OPTRA to replace the Cobalt, and not an Astra-variant sedan?

Right, either your the best, or you are “stuck in the mud”. So, what are you the best at?

Seriously, Hummer Hate is understandable, but worse than the disease it seems to want to cure.

One can easily make a reasoned, passionless critique of the H2 and H3, yet rarely does anyone do it. Even when they do, you can often just feel the hidden agenda seeping through the lines.

Factotum,

I guess Abrams tanks suck off road as well. I have seen plenty of them stuck myself. Hell, we even had special vehicles on hand just to recover them.

Am I being overly sensitive to logical fallacies today? I need to stop posting.

Hummer is the answer to the question no one asked. That’s why sales have tanked, that’s why GM is going to give them the ax.

As much as I hate HUMMERS, the pproblem is not the vehicle per se, which is pretty good at what it does. It’s the owners/marketers.

Example? A dealership had an ad campaign showing HUMMERs driving in a flood to rescue stranded people, with a tag line that said something like “Hummer owners help”, i.e. are good, model citizens who at the same time reach Chuck-Norris-Texas-Ranger heights of heroism.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIIISkU2_pI

However, my wife, who works at the red cross, pointed out that those were red cross-spec hummers. She sees them all the time at her agency’s parking lot, and they’re here in case of disasters. So it’s really wasn’t an individual hummer owner who rescued people, like the ad implied, but an NGO vehicle instead…..

I notice the focus which a lot of people denounced is doing quite well.
It deserved another star simply because the Kia Rio got 2 and the focus is better than that.

This will never happen. Farago ranked it at one star specifically because Ford built it instead of the Euro Focus. To quote his review:

My biggest problem with the new Ford Focus isn’t the new Ford Focus. It’s the Mazda3. For a couple grand more than the box-fresh Ford, you get coherent exterior style, a classy cabin, an adult-compatible rear compartment, a better sounding powerplant, vastly superior handling, greater residuals and an engine bay without a trace of duct tape. Considering Ford’s relationship with Mazda and their long history of badge-engineering… Oh well. I guess Ford just couldn’t admit they’ve lost Focus.

In other words, Farago’s comparing it to the Mazda3, and because it can’t step, it gets one star. Because the Mazda3 is what it could have been.

I am in Canada, and for some reason unknown to me and many others, Chrysler products seem to be doing well here. At least I believe they did last year.

Weird. I see tons of Chrysler products around Albuquerque too. On my trip to Texas, I think I saw at least three Dodge Avengers, more new Rams than I could count, a Patriot, and a few Calibers too. I have no idea why.

If that’s the only thing that the H2 can claim to be good at, then it’s stuck in the mud already.

Now THAT is a comical ststement. Land Rover? JUNK!

Real Jeeps and Land Rovers are so much better than wide, heavy Hummers.

Can’t wait for gawdodirt to chime in on this from the GM Proving Grounds in Mesa.

FURTHERMORE, I don’t care to have the whole argument about what they are ACTUALLY used for. I don’t care, and it doesn’t save your argument. Even the Tahoe has greater utility than “most station wagons”. You can easily get to your conclusion through a more defensible argument. If you want to make a point about the H2 and H3 being a bad idea, you can do it easily.

So why do it so badly?