By Frank Williams
August 20, 2008 -
The e-voting booths are closed and the votes are in. You've selected TTAC's Ten Best Automobiles for 2008. Five of the ten are repeat winners from last year– but only one of them stayed in the same slot. Three of our winners slipped in the ratings, and one moved up. GM, Mazda, Nissan and BMW all have two winners on the list. Honda and Audi each have one. There are sedans, sports cars and econoboxes. In fact, the only thing that seems to bind this group of cars together is the "fun to drive" factor (anyone who doesn't think that's important can click here). The rest of you can make the jump and help celebrate/kvetch about TTAC's Ten Best for 2008
10. Infiniti G35/37
The newly redesigned Infiniti G35/37 has graduated from James Bond analogies to Arnold Schwarzenegger comparisons (in his prime, of course) wearing a meticulously fitted suit.The G unit's athletic enough to shred meandering ribbons of asphalt, yet dignified enough for valet parking at a four star restaurant. The G35/37 is the ultimate driving machine for up and coming executives who have to keep an eye on the bottom line. - wcm
9. Mazda MX-5
For nearly two decades Mazda has never wavered from the MX-5's original formula: an inexpensive, light weight, front engine, rear wheel-drive British style convertible that not only starts every time you turn the key, but tugs at your heart strings every time you slide out around a corner. If you shut your eyes and meditate on the word "driving," odds are you'll visualize a Miata. - jl
8. MINI Cooper S
If cars were ice cream, the MINI Cooper S would be fat-free Häagen-Dazs: all the deliciousness you want with none of the guilt. The MINI manages to pack performance, handling and style into a pint-sized container for just a bit more than plain vanilla costs. In fact, to have this much fun driving without slurping down oodles of gas, for almost exactly the average price of a new car in America, is almost sinful. Rum Raisin with hot fudge and sprinkles. Yum. - mm
7. Nissan GT-R
Like most everybody else in America, I haven't driven the Nissan GT-R. But like any good pistonhead, I saw the Nürburgring video, heard the Corvette ZR1 debates, and scanned the spec sheet: 473 horsepower, sub four-second 0 - 60 time and the [mythical] $70k price tag. The GT-R has roots in video games, movies, gray market imports and a huge federalization scandal a few years back. The uber-Nissan cashes-in on the forbidden fruit value, without being forbidden. The Nissan GT-R is a legend in its own time. - jb
6. Cadillac CTS
For the first time in, well, forever, Cadillac has crafted a car that not only competes toe-to-toe with its German rivals dynamically, but flat-out destroys them with American styling and sex appeal. The CTS exudes zeitgeist, that intangible quality that lets you know you are driving something special, something that will continue to beckon you to the open road, long after the engine has cooled in the garage. - ms
5. Audi R8
As our own Jay Shoemaker said, "If you're looking for trouble, you've come to the wrong place." When you're the German cousin to the Lamborghini Gallardo, there's very little you can do wrong. With 420 horses running through all-wheel-drive, the R8 is the finesse player that turns the impossible into elementary, and a mundane trip around town into a star-studded gala, where the driver is the Guest of Honor. - sm
4. Honda Fit
From the Fit's tasteful dash to its trick rear seat, there's nothing to make you think Honda wishes you'd bought a more expensive model. The Fit's steering rivals a Boxster, the manny tranny is Honda perfection and the Fit gets 33 mpg around town without any hybrid complexity.There's only one reason we're not recommending that everyone "Buy a Fit:" an all-new model is coming that will probably be even better still. - jl
3. BMW 3-Series
Last year's first place favorite shows up in third place this year. I think people have a tendency to tire of teams, celebrities or nations that stay on top for too long. But even though it slipped a bit, the BMW 3-series remains the alpha sports sedan amongst our readers. From the bargain-basement six to the monster-motored M, there's no mistaking who's king of the hill. Your personal preferences may run to the C, G, IS or the 4, but you probably made that decision comparing it to a 3. - mm
2. Chevy Corvette/Z06/ZR1
Chevy's plastic fantastic hangs on to second place. Here's the mind-bending power, brutal grip, politically-correct fuel economy and brand-faithful style that's stood the test of time. And that's just the base model. Factor in the price point where the corner-hungry Z06 and supercar-killing ZR1 prove their superiority and this win is an absolute no-brainer. The only thing is, after the ZR1, what can they do for an encore? - sm
1. Mazda Mazda3/MazdaSpeed3
Last year's fourth place finisher moves to the number one slot this year, showing the hot-hatch never died, it merely grew up. With an upscale interior, understated sheet metal and high dollar dynamics, the Mazda3 is on every budget-minded pistonhead's wish list. The exhilarating performance afforded by forced induction and other sporting improvements in the Mazdaspeed3 adds more accolades to the approval, because too much of a good thing is never enough. - sm
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August 20th, 2008 at 9:05 am
Pretty good list overall, with a good mixture of exotics/sports cars, sports sedans, and “cheap and cheerful” cars.
And yes, I wouldn’t mind owning any of these when it comes to fun-to-drive factor.
August 20th, 2008 at 9:06 am
As an owner of a Mazdaspeed3, I still have to ask how the hell it even got on this list. Its rat shit compared to the rest of these cars…
August 20th, 2008 at 9:07 am
Interesting, no Porsches.
No Toyotas, Fords, or Chryslers, either, but that’s less of a surprise.
Can’t argue with anything on the list. Maybe ten is too short?
August 20th, 2008 at 9:12 am
Very good list. Can’t argue with any of ‘em. I want an R8 very, very much.
Next step? How about Best in Class for econo cars, sport sedans, luxury sedans, family sedans, vans, trucks, SUV’s, and sports cars?
Just sayin’…
August 20th, 2008 at 9:17 am
Great list.
August 20th, 2008 at 9:19 am
I can’t argue about any of these choices either.
I am rather disappointed though, in the inclusion of 3 cars from the same market segment. The CTS, 3-Series, and G35/37. In the words of Steve Colbert: “We’re at war! Pick a side!”
It seems odd that there is no mid-size, bread-and-butter sedan. I guess neither the current Camry, Accord, or Malibu are really that special.
Also, no Hybrids. (No real surprise there!)
August 20th, 2008 at 9:23 am
Ack, no Boxster. My heart is broken.
August 20th, 2008 at 9:28 am
With an upscale interior, understated sheet metal and high dollar dynamics…
As the proud owner of a Mazda3, I think that the sheet metal and the interior are the least likable aspects of the car. A worthy winner though, without a doubt.
August 20th, 2008 at 9:29 am
With all due respect to EVERYONE, this list is borderline nonsense.
The Cadillac CTS is a good car. But that’s it, GOOD, not great. There are much better cars in its class (i.e Lexus IS, Audi A4 with S line package etc) which kill this. I do like the CTS, but not this much!
I’m not quite sure why the 3 series places, either. Yes, it handles OK and yes it’s RWD, but my goodness the interior is cheap and the whole car is uglier than Christina Aguilera without her make-up on. Not to mention you pay through the nose of anything extra on it. I don’t like being ripped off…..especially by Germans.
The rest of the choices reek of boredom. There are no quirky choices (Possible exception of the MX-5), the cars which make you think differently about driving rather than make you feel safe.
That’s why I didn’t vote on this year’s “Ten Best”…..
August 20th, 2008 at 9:32 am
I can’t think of a car more deserving for this list this time around than the Cadillac CTS. Did someone really say a Lexus IS is a better car? OMG, my friends. OMG
August 20th, 2008 at 9:37 am
sean362880 : As the proud owner of a Mazda3, I think that the sheet metal and the interior are the least likable aspects of the car.
I donno, have you seen what Chevy, Dodge, Ford and Toyota bring at that price point? Definitely not their “A” game.
I was a little surprised at the first place slot, but small is all the rage, and the Mazda 3 is something special.
August 20th, 2008 at 9:38 am
Buick61,
I said it! So what….?
August 20th, 2008 at 9:38 am
I’m still in disbelief that the Boxster, with its convertible, great manual trans, and fantastic sound track just behind your years, missed the list but a Mazda3 did not.
August 20th, 2008 at 9:41 am
Any way we can see how many votes each car/series
got?
Interestingly enough I am probably one of the few who didn’t vote for BMW because the entire 3 series is not that good except maybe the 330 or 335. I also consider the 3 series the “me too!” car of the 2000’s
While being a “drivers car” the mazda still has nothing with “GOOD” gas mileage and their “drivers cars” I thought were fwd. Are they actually RWD?
I voted for them but wouldn’t place them first by any means.
August 20th, 2008 at 9:44 am
I don’t quite agree with the Corvette, the CTS, the MX-5 and the Infiniti on a personal preference level, although most of them are good at what they should do.
One thing in particular I have mixed feelings about though is the Mazda3 as top pick.
The good thing is that car enthousiasts of America apparently finally realize that hatchbacks are way better than lame sedans, which is great.
However, it seems like the fact that the Mazda3 is more or less the only hatchback choice in the US (except the rabbit and maybe some Toyotas) in this segment has clouded the judgement of some.
Living in Europe, with a wide array of competitors available for the Mazda3 and the Mazda3 in fact being a marginal player in this market, I can tell you that it’s not the best car in its segment here (it is definitely not something special) and that’s why it’s kind of funny to me to see it being picked as the TTAC best car of 2008.
Alternatively, it confirms once more to me just how bad some of the cars offered in the US are.
August 20th, 2008 at 9:47 am
JJ>
Isn’t the new STi a hatch?
August 20th, 2008 at 9:49 am
The list is a group of worthy contenders for sure and I feel that it represents the views of TTAC’s readers and staff. The voting process had adequate checks and balances to make it a truly representative list. These are 10 examples of what is right in the American car market.
August 20th, 2008 at 9:53 am
No RS4??? Besides that and the fact that the Mazda3 is number one… i agree with the list.
August 20th, 2008 at 9:54 am
Great list. I can’t argue against any of the selections. Interesting that 2 Nissans and 2 Mazdas made the cut, but only 1 Honda.
I would have liked being a fly on the wall when the Prius was discussed.
August 20th, 2008 at 9:55 am
Funny thing - I saw not one but two Nissan GT-Rs this past weekend at the Woodward Avenue Dream Cruise (off all places). The first (white pearl coat) was driven by Graham Rahal (Bobby’s son) who was signing autographs for the Belle Isle Grand Prix….racing for Honda yet driving a Nissan.
The second (red) was driven by the PR guy for Nissan attending a seperate event
When it rains it pours!
Good list - great cars!
August 20th, 2008 at 9:56 am
Robstar -
While being a “drivers car” the mazda still has nothing with “GOOD” gas mileage and their “drivers cars” I thought were fwd. Are they actually RWD?
The Miata and RX-8 are RWD. The speed6 is AWD. Everything else is FWD.
Sajeev -
Yeah, but I was thinking more at the $20k hatchback level. The Golf GIT, new Impreza, and the Civic have better interiors, and for the speed3, I think you run close to an Audi A3 at that point.
August 20th, 2008 at 10:02 am
Isn’t the new STi a hatch?Isn’t the new STi a hatch?
It is in Europe anyways, the new Impreza sedan isn’t even available over here.
Point I was making…In Europe you have a lot of hatchback cars in the Mazda 3 segment
VW Golf
Opel Astra
Honda Civic hatch
Ford Focus (Euro-focus)
Peugeot 308
Citroen C4
Alfa 147 (soon to be 149)
Lancia Delta
Fiat Bravo
Toyota Corrola
Seat Leon
Audi A3 (3-door as well)
Renault Mégane
BMW 1 series hatch
Volvo C30
A lot of which I’d personally prefer over the Mazda3, for instance because I personally don’t like the interior (plastics) of the Mazda3, which I think is important, and also because it’s out-dated compared to some others.
And also, being a car enthousiast, to be honest some of those are just more tasty than the boringly bland Mazda3 at the same pricepoint.
August 20th, 2008 at 10:03 am
@ Katie,
Ya’ll in Europe haven’t had the pleasure of the new CTS. It really is that great of a car. While we haven’t gotten the new A4, its 95% of a BMW 3-series dynamically, which is all 99% of the driving populace needs, but kills it in style and appeal. Can’t wait for the CTS-V. GM estimates a 0-60 sprint in 3.9 seconds, and a 1/4 mile in 12 @118mph. Too bad I know it won’t handle as well as the 911 Turbo (ha!).
And it does breake my heart there is no Boxster on this list… maybe its time for a new version to recapture our hearts and minds.
August 20th, 2008 at 10:03 am
Frank,
I’d be curious to know; what were the runners up? It would be fun to know who almost made the list.
-ted
August 20th, 2008 at 10:07 am
@ Mike Solowiow
I drove the first generation CTS and it was OK. Just OK. Pretty standard by European levels. I drove the second generation in LA, again, it was OK.
It breaks my heart that the Jaguar XF isn’t on this list, but class isn’t something you can buy……
August 20th, 2008 at 10:12 am
Who cares about boxters and STI’s…
Why wasn’t Elise even on the list? Too boring? :)
August 20th, 2008 at 10:13 am
Bummer no Subie’s made the list.
August 20th, 2008 at 10:19 am
i think for next years we should do it by class. Sub $20k car, 20-30k car etc. Best sedan. Best Convertible. Best Hot hatch. etc.
August 20th, 2008 at 10:36 am
@ Katie,
Agreed with the XF. Had both the regular V8, and the Supercharged. I will take mine in blue with the beige interior please… non-supercharged (is the heresy?)
August 20th, 2008 at 10:38 am
Rather predictable gearhead fare. What is the relevance of a sports car-heavy list to most car buyers, who must struggle with a more complex set of trade offs?
August 20th, 2008 at 10:51 am
“If you shut your eyes and meditate on the word “driving,” odds are you’ll visualize a Miata.”
Hopefully, the shutting of the eyes is not being done whilst in the pilot’s seat…
But yes, I would agree with everything said about the Miata. If I remember correctly, The word means “High Reward,” and so I cannot bear to call it the “MX-5″. If I ever bought another one in my life, I’d see about changing the badging, even if I had to do it at great cost.
And I’d go one further and say… “Zoom Zooom”…
:)
Yes, it’s true. This month, I violated my own personal guidelines against top ten lists and sports/reality shows . I voted in the Ten Best this year, and yes…I’ve been watching the Olympics. It’s a good thing the Olympics will be over this week, because I can feel my brain turning into spackling paste….
August 20th, 2008 at 10:57 am
4 of those cars can be had for around $20k. Not bad at all.
Sure is alot of complaining, maybe because people’s first choice wasn’t firt.
Good to see the 3 is on the top, even though I’m not sure how. But hey, it’s like a democracy right? That’s really impressive for an essentially 5-year old car that is about to be replaced. It’s had it’s fair share of early issues, but no less than any American or European car or an Asian NOT from Toyonda. It brings smiles to it’s drivers, and the wagon is rather utilitarian while still looking good. 30mpg isn’t bad for a compact that is more “sport-tuned” than a Civic or Corolla. It’s not a “magic” car, it’s the love-child of Mazda, Ford, and Volvo.
Yes, Europe does have some better alternatives but a majority of the people here (staff and B&B) are from North America and most of the cars tested here are for the US market.
August 20th, 2008 at 10:59 am
Mr. Lemming:
Only the RS8, GT-R, and upper trim level Corvettes are out of reach; the rest of the cars on the list are well within the typical car buyers budget. Heck, the Mazda3 and Honda Fit made the list; you can’t get much more practical than that.
I think it’s pretty obvious why the Mazda3 is #1, whether you thought it was the 10th best or the best car, it’s still just one vote. The Mazda appeared on most voters lists of ten best (or in my case 6 best because I couldn’t even vote for more than that in good conscience). If we were to rank the cars from 1 to 10 with #1 getting 10 points on down to #10 getting 1 point, I thnk that you would have seen a much different list. What it comes down to is more people thought that the Mazda3 belonged in their Top 10, not that people thought it was the best. By the way, I don’t see why there’s all the hate for the Mazda3. I test drove both a Mazda3 and a Mazdaspeed3 and thought they were very nice cars, fun to drive and still practical, which is probably why they appeared on so many voters Top ten lists, thereby, nabbing the top spot. I didn’t buy a Mazda3, but it is certainly a very fun, sporty, yet practical car. For somebody who likes to drive, it’s head and shoulders above the other cars in its class, Honda Civic, Toyota Corolla, Chevy Cobalt, etc.
And, KatiePuckrik, you need to calm down before you blow a gasket.
August 20th, 2008 at 11:01 am
I have to admit, the new Audi RS6 Avant they showed off on the new season of Top Gear looked stunning. Shame it won’t make it Stateside.
August 20th, 2008 at 11:23 am
Rather predictable gearhead fare. What is the relevance of a sports car-heavy list to most car buyers, who must struggle with a more complex set of trade offs?
Those are my thoughts as well.
I don’t know that catagories would help - maybe, maybe not. Does anyone here really want to discuss Silverado vs F-Series vs Ram? I know I don’t. I would be interested in discussing small trucks though. I think small truck sales are going to go up, because some big truck owners really do need the utility of a truck, but with better mpg.
As Tex mentioned, 4 of the cars could be had for about $20K, which is good -that the price point most of us are at, whether we want to admit it or not. That means the other 6 are pricey for most of us, and we’ll never actually own them. So again, the relevance?
I didn’t vote either.
August 20th, 2008 at 11:26 am
Besides the Fit, the Mazda3 is the only other sub-$20K car on the list…so it only makes sense that a hell of a lot more people own those than the other superior machines that rank “behind” it on this list. In addition to that, it seems to have more of a boy-racer following…sort of like Golfies, but w/a larger following (because it’s cheap); thus, lots and lots of votes.
However, IMHO, it’s a sad day when an econobox beats out a Corvette, an M3, an R8 and even a GTR. But then again, the voters live in a nation w/65mph curveless “highways,” insurance industry monitoring of traffic infractions and the ultra-rediculous high school motoring education. So maybe picking the Mazda 3 sort of makes sense…
August 20th, 2008 at 11:55 am
I assume the Mazda3 award excludes the 2.0L base engine? Because that thing was t-e-d-i-o-u-s, even with a manual.
Me: Ok, acceleration from a stop was lackluster, but let’s see how it passes on the freeway.
Wife: Sure, go for it.
[I slow down from 70 to 55 MPH, then downshift into fourth]
Wife: Um, I’m not really feeling a whole lot. Floor it.
Me: I AM flooring it.
Wife: This isn’t going to get around a semi in any reasonable time.
Me: Maybe I need to throw it into third.
[I shift into third, causing the engine to whine like a scolded three-year-old, and the car to shake and thrash about]
Wife: MAKE IT STOP!!!!
So that was that… never mind that the pavement noise was too loud to hear classical music over.
August 20th, 2008 at 12:03 pm
Regarding the CTS stying (since I’ve never driven one, nor would it occur to me to)…
If not for the silly fender vent, I have a hard time telling it from the OLD CTS. Stupid angular lines, ungainly fat C-pillar which is jarring in contrast to the too-thin A-pillar. It’s disjointed and horrifically uneasy on my eyes. A design that may be hip today but will NOT age well. Looking at an ‘08 CTS in 30 years will be like looking at a mid-70s T-bird today. A certain edgy appeal, but more than anything a tribute to the gaudy excess of its age.
August 20th, 2008 at 12:13 pm
Nice list, I can’t really disagree with any of the picks; too many near-lux sedans though. Have to admit I am surprised I don’t see a Cayman on the list. And I’m also surprised the Mazda3 took the top spot.
If I had to pick the “best” car that’s relevant to the times we’re in and all, it would have to be the Honda Fit. Its an nifty car to drive that has a really ingenious interior set-up. As fun and small as a Mini, but with better efficiency and build quality, for less money. If that Fit-platformed hybrid is as good as everyone thinks it will be (and it will be), plus a diesel option (for REAL misers) the Fit will be the first “world-car” I think with a worldwide appeal to match.
August 20th, 2008 at 12:18 pm
The overall reaction to this survey is that you can satisfy some of the people some of the time and all of the people rarely.
I’d be interested in why the Mazdaspeed3 was classified as “ratshit” by one contributor. Our 3 has been bullet proof for nigh on 60,000 miles.
Is there some sort of special problem with the turbo version?
As the bumper sticker says, however, our other car is a Porsche.
August 20th, 2008 at 12:20 pm
Pretty good list.
Have to agree that three sport sedans is wasting space that could have included others.
Haven’t seen the G35 or 3-series lose to the CTS in a head to head so I have to say “good car, but not a BEST”.
I think every other one is at least plausible.
Bunter
August 20th, 2008 at 12:22 pm
zerofoo
I’d be curious to know; what were the runners up? It would be fun to know who almost made the list.
The runners up were the other 10 of the 20 finalists. They were, in order from 11th to 20th:
Honda Civic
Porsche 911
VW GTI
Toyota Prius
Audi A5/S5
Pontiac G8
Audi S4/RS4
Porsche Boxster S
VW Jetta TDI Sportwagen
Hyundai Genesis
The Civic and the G35/37 seesawed back and forth for a while, but when the voting closed the Infiniti was in 10th and the Honda in 11th.
August 20th, 2008 at 12:35 pm
I think the point a lot of people are missing is that the results reflect what we ALL voted on. The fact that the Mazda3 took top spot is not necessarily that it is the best car of the group, but that the most people rallied behind it. That says something about the significance of the car in its virtues and appeal.
Another example is the CTS. It’s significance in competitiveness and reflections of GM resonate with the voters. Same for the Corvette. They may be fundamentally flawed in certain attributes when compared to others in their markets, but they carry a lot of weight as a whole.
All of us have our personal opinions and favorites, therefore we will agree to disagree. But the masses have spoken, and the results are above. I think the outcome is impressive, and a good snapshot of the B&B of TTAC.
August 20th, 2008 at 12:37 pm
Great list, especially since we readers of TTAC are the ones who helped create it with our votes.
I also appreciate it because the nominees were not constrained to any cost ceilings as some other lists are.
August 20th, 2008 at 12:45 pm
Axel- shifting to 3rd is the right thing to do. What kind of cars were you comparing this too?
ZoomZoom- don’t equate sports with reality TV.
The Mazdapeed 3 is ratshit comment definitely needs to be explained.
Regarding the lack of a midsize sedan; I think most “enthusiasts” would traditionally like the Accord but the 2008 is over the top ginormous
August 20th, 2008 at 12:46 pm
You must have a lot of Canadian voters if the Mazda3 edged out the GTR and R8 as #1 car.
August 20th, 2008 at 12:48 pm
Again, you’re killing me here with this Boxster thing. 18th out of 20?
Before I drove a Boxster, but after I’d owned a 911 and Miata, if anyone asked me what the most fun-to-drive car was for me, the answer was always a Miata. They are that good.
That was my answer, at least, until I drove the Boxster. Maybe I just had too much fun driving one…
August 20th, 2008 at 12:50 pm
Austinseven:
That was me. It has around 25k miles on it. It rattles horibly, and interior fit and finish is subpar compared to my first car (which was an early 90s Mitsu). The car feels like it is about to fall apart at any second, and I’m rather meticulous about maitenance, so you can’t hit me there. Dealer service has been bad enough to make me wish I had a VW and had to deal with their service department, at least I might get to test drive a Touareg while I wait. Its not fun to drive. The gearing is quite possibly the worst I will ever expierience. Its not comfortable at all. On long trips it hurts my back (I’m only 23, but twelve years of playing football start to stack up on you).
This isn’t just buyers remorse. I had that with my BMW for picking a 325i instead of a 330i, but I came to love it, and I miss it much. I honestly do not like this car one bit, and while it was great fun for the test drive, the long haul has, to put it simply, sucked. Hence why I am trying to sell it. There is a reason why half of my Mazda specific car club is ditching their Speed3s and going back to Mitsu and Scoobies, at least they don’t try to pretend to be upmarket with “nice” interiors and a good compromise between value and performance. It is neither.
I cannot speak for the regular Mazda3s, but I have heard similar statements from those I am friends with that drive the regular 3s.
To everyone with a Speed3 on your short list, I highly recomend looking at a GTI or, if cash allows it, an R32 or STI for a hot hatch. If you are serious in picking up a Speed3, let me know, you can buy mine.
The Mazda3 and Mazdaspeed3 offer absolutely nothing over any other car on this list. The MX-5 deserves to be on this list. The Mazda3 and Speed3, not one bit.
August 20th, 2008 at 12:56 pm
No Boxter? No Cayman? But the whole Series 3 made it? What is it? Hollywood lifetime achievement awards?
August 20th, 2008 at 1:04 pm
Oh, and the Mazda3 is very gay. Not gay fabulous, but downmarket, thrift-store shopping gay. Still not as gay as a Mini, but up there. I think they come from the factory with a rainbow flag sticker on the bumper as standard equipment.
So it’s nice to know I’m not the only gay voter on this site.
Rainbow nation rules!
August 20th, 2008 at 1:07 pm
RFortier1796 -
I agree with you on a couple of points - my Mazda3 is not comfortable on long trips, the interior isn’t good when compared to the Germans, and when you drive like you mean it 3rd gear is useless.
BUT! It’s the most fun-to-drive car for less than $20k. Bar none. And it turns in decent mileage. And it’s practical (I once crammed a futon in the back of the hatch version). That’s why I voted for it.
Yes, the Golfs are better, but they also cost more, which is important in this segement.
August 20th, 2008 at 1:20 pm
What!!??
No Toyota’s on the list???!!!!!
Well, I’ll be a monkey’s uncle. This underscores my belief that yota’s are about as useful as poopy flavored lollipops (danke- dodgeball).
August 20th, 2008 at 1:21 pm
Golf’s cost more? The one I priced from VW’s website was two grand less than my Speed3 with equal packaging, and with 0% for Sixty months? And I really don’t think its that fun to drive at all, but then again, that is all subjective, and can’t really be measured.
August 20th, 2008 at 1:22 pm
I’m not surprised that the XF didn’t make it. I’ve said it before: It’s not special enough. The exterior is deriviative and the powertrains predate dinosaurs. No wonder it didn’t tickle anyone’s fancy.
A quirky choice? Peh. Sometimes the best are the best for a reason. This isn’t The Gong Show.
August 20th, 2008 at 1:27 pm
RFortier1796- that makes sense, I’ve always said that for a majority of buyers reliability trumps all.
Mediocre car that doesn’t break is better than a great car that does = Toyota is #1 car maker.
August 20th, 2008 at 1:29 pm
Last year I drove a Honda Fit and really thought is was a great car. This weekend I drove a Scion xD and came away with the impression that the Fit is not that big of a deal anymore. The Fit was slow compared to the xD and did not handling as well (one note: the xD was fitted with optional wheels and tires).
Yes the Fit does have a space advantage over the xD but the xD felt like a bit more solid than the Fit. Must admit I got my bubble busted over this one and would buy the xD before the Fit in a heartbeat. I also found the Fit to be a bad highway car; crosswinds, road noise, and lack of power all hurt it on the interstate.
I know a new Fit is right around the corner with an increase in power, so I will need to check that out when it gets here.
The Fit is nice but there is a lot of hype surrounding it. In all honesty it is not a bargin for what you get.
I also find the Mazda3 to be somewhat overrated. One slam of the door and you will quickly know were Mazda saved the coins? If I were buying a car and knew I would be dumping it in about 2 to 3 years I would get a Mazda3. On the otherhand if I need to live with the car for over 3 years I could never buy one of these over a Civic. Yeap, I will give up on 18hp, an inch in rim size, and the leather for a more substance in the actual “meat” of the car. My friend’s two year old non-abused 3 is already showing it age. Yes it is a great little car, but for how long?
At the end of the day there is a reason why the car that give you so much more up front is worth so much less in the end.
In terms of the Mazdaspeed3 I have only read about people who actually like this that car! Everyone I know who has driven (or used to own) was less than satified with the Speed3. If you have ever driven a heavily moded FWD you will know what I mean! This is one of the few cars I have ever driven that felt like it could do with LESS hp. I get the impression that the folks at Mazda said lets make the fastest little car they could, NOT THE MOST DYNAMIC. Yeah, it has a lot of torque (too much) but one drive in a Civic Si will let you know what a pocket rocket done right is.
Now both the Mazda3 and Fit are very good choices but…….
August 20th, 2008 at 1:43 pm
Sorry forgive me.
Can you please put something else beside the Mazda. I mean I see these cars everyday left, right, rear and in front of me everyday 24/7 - 365 days a year.
I am just tired of looking at them. Mazda Miata I thought they stop making those cars.
Gaycorvette you are funny and so very true.
August 20th, 2008 at 1:50 pm
Maybe I’m a mean guy, but I’m glad the 1-series didn’t make it.
RFortier1796 : The MS3 gets love because (on paper) you can’t buy anything that fast or powerful, for the price point it’s at. The Si and the GTI look like they’re much easier to live with on a daily basis.
August 20th, 2008 at 2:28 pm
gaycorvette:
I’m thinking your gaydar is on the fritz. Everybody knows the most gay car on the planet is a Miata. And you blew right by it to finger the Mazdaspeed 3? That is so wrong, precious!
August 20th, 2008 at 2:29 pm
Couldn’t really argue with any cars on this list. I’m particularly pleased that the CTS is getting the love it deserves.
August 20th, 2008 at 3:12 pm
whatdoiknow:
OK, so maybe the xD has an edge on the Fit in driving dynamics (though I don’t seem to have a problem with road noise or crosswinds, at least any more than any other 2600-lb. economy car), but the Fit is lighter, gets better mileage, and has more interior space, as you pointed out, not just for cargo, but for passengers. Plus, it takes the looks contest hands down. The xD is…not attractive. I’ve only seen two on the road, both in silver, but I think that front end would be horrifying in any hue.
I will agree on the Mazda3. A decent car for the price, but it feels cheaper than the Fit or xD, and has a confusing options package. I rented one that had cruise, tilt/telescope wheel with radio controls…and manual windows and door locks. Eh?
August 20th, 2008 at 3:18 pm
I can’t really speak to the fit and finish of the Mazda3 over the long term as I ended buying a Mazda6, but I have no problems with rattles, wear, etc. on my Mazda6, which I’ve now had for nearly 4 years and 45,000 miles. Did they really put that much less effort into the build quality of the Mazda3? I can’t imagine having been any more pleased with any car close to the price that I paid for my Mazda6 (V6, manual, $17,500).
August 20th, 2008 at 3:40 pm
Our Mazda3 is my wifes’ car and the last time I checked, which was very recently, she ain’t gay! But it does seem that women like this car more than men.
A womans’ main priorities are comfort and reliability. This 3 gets driven long distances and the “trouble and strife” has never uttered a word about any sort of discomfort, although the A/C system seems to be regulated for the Great White North and may not be super cold in Arizona.
All said, the whole Mazda range is now so superior to the 323 and 626 of old that you might think they were made by a completely different company.
August 20th, 2008 at 3:50 pm
Great list
August 20th, 2008 at 3:52 pm
Time to pipe in for the defense of the Mazda3 as there seems to be some heated discussion going about… Well the Mazdaspeed3 in particular as I own one as well.
This car is simply phenomenal for what is at around the $25k mark. Yes that’s quite a substantial amount but mine is basically fully loaded and it never ceases to amaze me of it’s capabilities. That and it was supposedly for the limited production year of 2007. Turning to its driving prowess… It simply surpasses my meager driving abilities. Because everyone else is a professional race driver except for myself. Auto-x is just for fun. For what it offers there is simply no other alternatives in terms of speed, versatility and price(which can be had for substantially cheaper now).
I’ll agree with some of the flack that the 3 has come under fire from as some owners have experienced atrocious ownership experiences as the regular Mazda3 forum I browse has had its fair share of owners complaining about quality control issues; no company is perfect, just look at the competition. The GTI may be a fine car but I do worry of VW’s reliability record. The Si suffers from its own niggles and issues as well (3rd gear pop out is a common one). I myself have often been bitten by the worry bug as well but it hasn’t failed me yet with almost 2 years ownership and about 30k miles clocked. Anecdotal evidence if you may but I think it’s also worth pointing out that people typically prefer to vent their frustrations out on a public forum as opposed to heaping praise, something which I think the Mazda3 is rightly deserved of.
And turning to the European posters talking about mediocrity of the Mazda3, I’d like to ask: Why? It’s based off the best selling Ford Focus Mk2, which the press has lauded as one of the best cars in its segment and the ST is heralded as the second coming of Christ. Yet, the Mazda3 seems to get left in the dust and there is almost no coverage whatsoever on it. Something seems truly amiss…
August 20th, 2008 at 4:20 pm
Mulholland:
I’m totes in agreement with you about the Miata, though I would put the Golf Cabrio right up there with it. And I did make that point in the earlier thread on “gay cars” a few weeks ago.
But Mazda3 is still very gay. It’s small enough for parking in tight spaces (cough), with enough interior room to store the matching Afghan hounds and potted azaleas.
August 20th, 2008 at 4:25 pm
davey49:
Axel- shifting to 3rd is the right thing to do. What kind of cars were you comparing this too?
Mainly to an auto Civic (the manuals were sold out). The Civic passes gracefully and swiftly on the freeway, and the high rev of the VTEC is actually a pleasant, smooth whirr.
My daily driver is a Chevy Malibu Maxx (auto, of course), which throws you back in the seat with mountains of grunty torque when you put the hammer down at 65 MPH. Loud, but viscerally satisfying. Never fails to put a grin on my face.
I’m sure the 2.3L Mazda3 is a much better experience, but it was off the list due to the dismal fuel economy. The 2.0L does not perform noticeably any better than an SOHC Civic. That’s my story and I’m sticking to it.
August 20th, 2008 at 4:33 pm
Nue:
It was supposed to be limited to a 2007 model. Then there was the 2008. And a 2008.5. And much rumor of a 2009.
August 20th, 2008 at 4:42 pm
RFortier1796:
Very much aware of that. You could imagine my anger when the 08 models were announced. And the 8.5 revision (WITH NEW COLORS). The 09 is already confirmed, which is why you can get overstocked 08 models at a great price these days. Oh well, still satisfied and happy with the purchase.
And to your second post, I’ll also attest that the dealership experience downright sucks, though supposedly VW’s is no better than Mazda. The interior quality feels perfectly fine to me for a car in this segment, luxurious almost. I too, baby my car but I’ve had a few squeaks here and there but nothing I wasn’t able to solve other than the dreaded cold temperature windshield squeak. This is typical of any car IMO as you grow with it. Besides, just turn up the sound if rattles and squeaks bother you that much =).
Gearing is fine for a car like this as I personally have never gotten tired of it (~3 hour nonstop trip) and it feels great to be able to pull from any gear short of 5500 rpm.
August 20th, 2008 at 5:07 pm
On the highway, the gearing is fine. But around the city I still think its horrible. The 2008.5 and 2009MY just pisses me off. The squeaks and rattles are all over the place in mine, and while normally I’d agree with you, sometimes I don’t want to listen to my music at full blast. Had plenty in my Eclipse, never got any in my BMW, though I’m starting to think from reading all sorts of car blogs that I am the only person to ever own a BMW without fault.
August 20th, 2008 at 5:16 pm
Well… Something to keep in mind I think is that the Mazdaspeed3, while said to be a good daily driver, is also considered something of a sports car as well. Case in point we have pretty firm suspension and spring settings. Throw in the fact that we have LSD as standard and an unforgiving clutch makes it a pretty iffy deal for regular run of the mill owners used to softer cars. The Speed3 isn’t as aggressive as true sport cars but it rides along a rather fine line. I came from a modded Integra GS-R and so perhaps the difference is there. That car really squeaked but that’s due to the modifications that were done by the previous owner and myself as well. The Speed3? Nothing I can’t handle but it’s not exactly baby smooth either. People that sit in my car don’t understand why I take normal dips and speedbumps at a slow rate (habit from old car). They understand after I crash into them (the dips) at normal speeds a Camry or an Accord wouldn’t even flinch at. To not expect any squeaks and rattles is setting yourself too high of an expectation IMO because every car does it as you live longer with the car. My dad complains of such nonsense in his new Lexus when oddly enough, he was the one who told me to stop worrying about my car when the squeaks made themselves appear. Of course I didn’t listen and just simply isolated the issues and fixed them.
August 20th, 2008 at 5:28 pm
I think the Runners up are better than the winners, with the exception of the mini.
Surprised that the Prius isn’t on the list…it is the most innovative car on the road, bar none even if the dynamics are boring.
Only 2 American cars on the list- and one is the Vette. Sad.
August 20th, 2008 at 5:40 pm
Good list - and to those who didn’t vote and didn’t like the list, there is an old saying in democracies: If you don’t vote, you can’t bitch.
As to Mazda, I’ve owned a Miata (great car) and have rented both the 3 and 6 in base trim. Both were exceptional when compared to their competition. I think the reason the MX-5 and Mazda3 both made the list is value.
Would’ve loved to see both the Cayman and its less attractive stepsister the Boxster on the list. But something about the price doesn’t equate to value. Supposedly Porsche averages $28k profit on each car they sell, and both the Cayman and the Boxster I suspect suffered in the “value” category despite their otherwise excellent driving manners.
I’m still devastated that the Doubtfire V11 didn’t make the list…
August 20th, 2008 at 6:21 pm
God…I feel like I am at a bar listening to all the drunks on Monday second guessing Sunday’s coaching.
Look…this was voted on by supposedly The Brightest. And the vote getters got the placement.
The bad-mouthing of the Mazda3 because of its economical price level is just plain stupid. In fact, it’s proof of the ignorance of auto engineering and its task.
This is the thinking of the “brightest”?
Anybody can create a great car, a fast car, a luxurious car…in fact with all of these traits IF THERE WERE NO COST LIMITS.
The fact that a company DID build a car that is fun, economical, reliable, incredibly fast, incredibly stacked AND AFFORDABLE should be awarded and applauded.That is why this car is so revered by car lovers.
Now for the leather loving Germans…
…has anyone ever noticed that the European (read German) automakers are masochistic?
I mean…just sit in every Audi or BMW.
Then sit in a Lexis or Genesis or Acura.
The German’s have rock hard seats and the Japanese have wonderful soft seats.
The kind you need for driving our highways.
What gives with the Germans!?
Do you know what a Audi saleman explained to me today?
The hard seats are because the Europeans drive more and farther than we do in America.
So they need the hard seats for better comfort and support.
It must be our wonderful public trans system that allows us to do less driving, huh?
August 20th, 2008 at 7:04 pm
I thought, per a previous TTAC discussion, that Subarus were the fruitiest cars. Being a resident of the PNW, I am surrounded by Outbacks featuring rainbow stickers, equal signs and Paul Lynde knock-offs; same can not be said of the venerable Miata.
Thus, via science: Subaru>Mamma Mia!>Mazda.
August 20th, 2008 at 7:15 pm
Sammy Hagar:
Subarus are the most lesbianest cars, but that’s different from teh geigh men. One normally doesn’t use “fruity” to describe lesbians.
August 20th, 2008 at 7:58 pm
This is like the no-cred Automobile Mag’s 10 best. A group of enthusiasts who pick cars they like subjectively, with no criteria or anything.
Expect for the fact that AutoMag’s group of enthusiasts actually had seat time in all of the cars they awarded.
August 20th, 2008 at 8:36 pm
Mazda 3? Really?
August 20th, 2008 at 8:44 pm
Holy smokes! I can actually afford six of them, and kinda sorta two more! amazing! I love small kickass cars.
Why no lotus elise? perhaps cause I’ve built model cars that are larger. Should you manage to shoehorn yourself in one, you require servants to extract you. It makes a lovely living room table curio, tho.
Boxter, alas! GTi, ah!
Also, in my neck of the woods, the most lesbianest of cars is the Jeep Wrangler for the butches, and BMW 3’s for the fems. For the tree huggers, its civic hybrids and toyota hybrid hylanders.
Gay men of a certain age drive corvettes, as
noted above. They go well with vodka drinks and demanding boy toys.
August 20th, 2008 at 8:52 pm
I have no prob with the Mazda3 here, but the 2.0L needs to be explicitly excluded.
August 20th, 2008 at 9:54 pm
I think its a very good list. 2 GM products though? I thought TTAC was supposed to be biased!
August 20th, 2008 at 10:07 pm
Do you know what a Audi saleman explained to me today?
The hard seats are because the Europeans drive more and farther than we do in America.
We have counties bigger than Germany.
Ok, maybe I exagerate - or maybe not.
August 20th, 2008 at 10:51 pm
Sorry, the base Mazda 3 has to stay.
August 20th, 2008 at 11:20 pm
Gaycorvette
3 of the 4 lesbians i know all drive VWs - the other drives a Porsche 928 & has a great porn collection
I think everybody chose the Mazda 3 not because its great; just because its somewhat better than the civic, corolla, focus, cobalt, lancer and the POS that Chrysler makes
hang on, the CTS made it yet no jaguar; presumably the market for britishness like Devonshire teas and Red Phone boxes is limited to just one person.
August 21st, 2008 at 3:11 am
it’s amazing to me that the Mazda made the top spot given that it’s not a “new” model. Other than that, I like the fact that the vast majority of these cars are “real world”, with the exception of the R8 and perhaps the GT-R. One of the things that makes me love TTAC is that it spends most of it’s time talking about cars I might be able to / want to drive or own. my eye’s on the Cooper S.
August 21st, 2008 at 7:19 am
Before I “copped out” and bought my Elantra, I was giving a long look at the Fit, Rabbit, GTI, Astra and the Mazda 3.
Although it’s a much lauded car, I just couldn’t get comfortable with the “filigreed” styling cues; it just didn’t appeal to me.
Reading gaycorvette’s comments, I now think I know why… ;-)
August 21st, 2008 at 7:27 am
Hey, Axel…I, for one, LIKE looking at mid-’70s T-birds today.
August 21st, 2008 at 9:19 am
I would have included the Jeep Wrangler, as it’s the best convertible out there and puts a smile on anyone’s face. Plus at least you would have one vehicle that can leave the pavement.
August 21st, 2008 at 9:26 am
@Airhen - I would have included the Jeep Wrangler, as it’s the best convertible out there…
Have you driven an MX-5? The Wrangler is a great vehicle for an off-roader; the “convertible” part of it is worse however than any British roadster of the 1950’s and takes longer to erect. Granted, it would ruin the Wrangler to create a real convertible as the top is by nature quite large.
And as bad as the MX-5, or most small convertibles are for freeway driving (too noisy), the Wrangler is just godwawful. If I owned a ranch, I wouldn’t be without the Jeep. Otherwise, it’s far easier to rent one when I feel the need to go offroad.
August 21st, 2008 at 9:39 am
Admittedly, I did not take part in this years voting. However, I am declaring “shenanigans” on Frank Williams for running a vote that places a Pontiac (ANY pontiac!) before a Boxster.
THAT. IS. JUST. WRONG.
TTAC voters have betrayed the mighty Motoring God.
August 21st, 2008 at 10:09 am
I’m unsure if it is merely a problem on my end, but I can no longer locate the Honda Fit review. I was hoping to re-read it after noticing the Fit beat out the Civic for one of the top 10 choices and yet, I cannot find the review.
August 21st, 2008 at 10:19 am
Compared to V-tech engine and Mazda engine I will go with the V-tech.
A smooth engine with minimal engine noise and engine cabin noise. Honda had the V-TECH engine for many years and still being one of the best Japanese engine in the market.
Honds, Nissan and Toyota engines are the most respected in the Automotive industry. They were built to last.
Mitsubishi and Mazda have good engine but they are noisy.
August 21st, 2008 at 11:12 am
socsndaisy : Maybe if the Boxster was actually able to beat a V8 G8 from 0-60, it could have finished ahead of it in the rankings
I love the Boxster, and I was very close to buying one (in fact, the Boxster/Cayman were the only other car(s) I was seriously considering when I was looking for a car about 18 months ago), but it is kind of overpriced for the performance you get. I understand that 95% of the appeal of the car is its light weight, telepathic steering and tossable handling, but it could use a lot more power at its current price point
August 21st, 2008 at 12:03 pm
As a heterosexual owner of a ‘06 Mazda3, I’m a little shocked by the hatred. The thing that seems to be missed here is that, for it’s price, the 3 is untouchable for fun factor. My 3 wagon is only a half second slower than a Civic SI, for gads sake. For what, 5 grand less? And to the gentleman who said the SI is a pocket rocket done right, I guess SPEED is not a qualification for that status. When compared to ANY other hopped up small car, the Speed3, GTI, hell, a Cobalt SS, the SI gets it’s fart can handed to it.
My 3 has had ONE unscheduled trip to the dealer in three years for a check engine light , and that was taken care of quickly with no advance notice. I couldn’t be happier with my dealer. Oh, and I paid 17.5k for it back then, and it’s currently worth 14k as a trade here in Milwaukee. Not too shabby.
As for the rest of the list, don’t have any issues with them. Nice to see GM get some love once in a while. And to the people who complain that most of the cars are fairly expensive, well, umm duh? Hard to imagine some of the best cars out there cost a lot of money. If all you want is reliability ratings, I think we all know where to find those.
TTAC is about people who like to drive, not just get places.
August 21st, 2008 at 1:17 pm
This list is fine (assuming that all such lists are subjective). What no vans, CUVs or SUVs on the list? Small(er) cars seem to be all the rage with higher fuel costs. Thats fine by me.
I personally own a 2008 Mazda3 i, 5 speed sedan - and yes it truly deserves to be #1 on this or any other general “best cars” lists. This car is all about bang for the buck. I got mine for $16,100 and challenge anyone anywhere to name a better car at this price point!!!
I also own a 2008 Mazda5, 5 speed, and this also deserves to be on any list (sales are up almost 50% year over year). Just drove it 1,500 miles to Canada and it did great as a long haul family hauler. Where else can you get a minivan with a stick and performance tires?
August 21st, 2008 at 1:38 pm
Carnut or Roadkill66
what do you have in your beloved Mazda?
2008 Mitsubishi Lancer with 32,000 miles one recall to change the rubber mesh on the door and that’s about it.
On my car I have 650 watts rockford and fosgate with dvd player and navigation system, 4 wheel disc brakes, 7 speakers with sub-woofer with 6 cd, paddle shifter just like a Ferrari but built for Econobox, 18 inch alloy wheels,fog light, KEYLESS entry,keyless start,automatic door lock (when you leave your car unlock for 5 mins it will lock by itself),speed volume control,156 horsepower and can be manipulated with more HP,sunroof, Trunk indoor knob (just in case you left yourself inside the trunk)and Ipod connector,sunroof and All are standard feature except if you don’t want them they can give you less options lesser price.
You can even install a RECARO seat from an EVO X
For Price of $18,650 FULLY LOADED
Mazda does not have these options or do they?
Has I wrote before The engine on the 08 Lancer is a little loud compared to the Big Three Nissan,Honda and Toyota.
My top ten.
Acura RSX
Honda Civic
Honda Accord
Mitsubishi Lancer Evo X
Lexus IS
Cadillac STS
Mini Cooper
Nissan Maxima
Nissan Altima
Subaru WRX
Best money can buy.
August 21st, 2008 at 1:47 pm
@BEAT - You left out the make of your car. Is this the rumored Chevy Aveo ZR2-with-awesome-car-stereo?
August 21st, 2008 at 2:14 pm
@Mr. Altoids
How about http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/honda-fit-sport
which I found at http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/honda page 2.
August 21st, 2008 at 2:21 pm
mazda3 on top and deservedly so.
August 21st, 2008 at 5:04 pm
I think the list is very good…and the choice of the 3 at the top makes sense to me. It is not the greatest car on the planet, but I think relevancy counts a lot on this list. The 3 is a great car, in America, at this time. The only other sporty, fuel efficient hatchbacks are either unreliable gas guzzlers (I’m looking at you, Volkswagen Rabbit), or boring/subpar (any Kia, Matrix, etc.). The 3 is almost in a class of it’s own (Astra is similar, however), at a time when that type of car fits our needs more than ever. This isn’t Europe and we don’t have choices like that. As a testament, my little brother just bought one. It’s one of their last model years, and it’s more popular than ever.
This list obviously factors in relevancy in the US market. The CTS isn’t the world’s greatest luxury car, but it shows that GM can really build some very good cars–and compete in that market here in the USA. Same with the Corvette’s placement above any Porsche. Most of the people on this site are Americans, and are happy to see a few worthy home-grown contenders. If this list were compiled in ol Blighty, you’d see some Jags/Astons/Land Rovers instead of the US cars here. But the Japanese and Germans will appear on anybody’s list.
August 21st, 2008 at 5:36 pm
G8 > Boxster
Big sedan, rumbly V8, power, tire smoke. The good stuff.
August 21st, 2008 at 6:01 pm
Beat:
I went to True Delta, thank you TTAC for the link, and did a comparison of the Mazda3, 156 hp versus the Lancer, 152 hp. When adjusted for features that the two do not share (the Mazda costs more but comes with many more features standard or available), the Lancer costs $420 more comparing base models or $231 more when maximizing shared features. Basically a wash.
When comparing the Mazdaspeed3, 263 hp, to the Lancer Evo, 291 hp, the difference becomes rather large. Maximizing shared features and adjusting for the different features provided, the Mazdaspeed3 comes in $12,720 less than the Lancer Evo.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, as they say, but I’ll take the Mazdaspeed3 understated looks over the Lancer EVO “boy racer” looks any day.
As far as the features you listed, the Mazda3 does not have paddle shifters, but I prefer a manual transmission over a paddle shifted CVT anyday, or at least anyday that I’m not recovering from foot surgery. The upgraded stereo for the Mazda is “only” a 7 speaker 222W Bose stereo. I believe the interior trunk release is a required safety feature on all cars now-a-days. It’s in case somebody locks you in your trunk.
August 21st, 2008 at 6:03 pm
I have a 2007 Ms3. Almost anyone I encounter that has driven or owns my car cant shut uo about how fast it is, how it corners, or how impressive 263 hp @ 20-30 mpg is in a car. All that and Bose, hatch room, leather, HID’s, and mods for 170 bucks that can add more torque than the Civic has in it’s base form equals ENVY.
You can call us gay, we’ll still whip your ass.
August 21st, 2008 at 9:00 pm
“TTAC is about people who like to drive, not just get places.”
TTAC is exactly what it says, The Truth About Cars. Not The Truth About Sports Cars or The Argument Over Useless Performance Specs. I like to drive but I’m not interested in max performance, drag racing people at stoplights, driving on a track, or going double the posted speed limit. I don’t think I would ever pay more than 25k for a vehicle and I expect absolute reliability from any car. Not a day goes by where I don’t read TTAC. I don’t think it’s just for people who “live their life a quarter mile at a time”.
August 21st, 2008 at 9:18 pm
Ten cars made the cut: Three of the ten were sports sedans, another three of the ten were economy cars, and the remaining four were sports cars. This beauty contest should accurately reflect the automobile market and select the best cars in each class - but it doesn’t! For example why not have a category for the best muscle car, best family car, best large car, best midsize car, best truck, best minivan, most fuel efficient vehicle, etc. Better yet, why not a designate class for the most innovative production car? I don’t care how fast a damn horseless carriage laps the Nurburgring. Those numbers were written for nitwits. Every one of these cars with the exception of the Nissan are warmed over designs with extra power output. Booooooring. The Nissan is new to America but it’s based on a tired, pointless concept. What a waste! Cugnot would not approve.
I see the Lightning GT on the horizon. . .
August 21st, 2008 at 9:35 pm
TTAC is exactly what it says, The Truth About Cars. Not The Truth About Sports Cars or The Argument Over Useless Performance Specs. I like to drive but I’m not interested in max performance, drag racing people at stoplights, driving on a track, or going double the posted speed limit. I don’t think I would ever pay more than 25k for a vehicle and I expect absolute reliability from any car. Not a day goes by where I don’t read TTAC. I don’t think it’s just for people who “live their life a quarter mile at a time”.
How true. What a novel concept, buying cars for transportation. The automotive press just doesn’t get it. What’s going to wake them up? People aren’t buying these pieces of garbage because they:
1. Are too expensive to (a) buy (b) maintain (c) fuel.
2. Haven’t shown any fundamental design improvements
3. Have the ugliest designs this side of Atari.
August 21st, 2008 at 10:00 pm
Well, this list essentially represents everything I find “wrong” with popular automotive journalism.
Geez, we all might as well go home, find something more productive to do with our time, and the TTACers could just take down this site and put up a link to Car and Driver magazine’s web site.
Why even bother anymore?
You see, I am SO DAMN SICK AND TIRED of reading 10,000 pages per year about Ferraris and Porsches and Corvettes and Vipers and all kinds of high-dollar sports cars and such that 99.95% of any given publication’s readership will NEVER own, and probably never even SIT in, let alone drive for even one single block. While, in comparison, I might fight through all of that utter nonsense just to find maybe TEN STINKING PAGES per year published about the cars that I might actually WANT TO LEARN ABOUT and ultimately purchase.
What the hell are we??? 10-year-old kids???
Sheesh!
I wouldn’t be anywhere near so pissed-off-I-can’t-see-straight about this, if it wasn’t for that insipid swipe at Consumer Reports — for the record, one of the few publications on this planet that actually pays any attention at all to the vehicles that “normal people” actually wind up purchasing.
“Oh, so TTAC’s editorial philosophy is that anyone who wants to drive a car that’s anything other than a sports car of some sort can just go to hell and die?”
Thanks for your support. I can freaking take my page views elsewhere.
If we could get a few heads pulled out of a few respective posteriors, someone might even figure out how that the top 10 TTAC cars probably don’t sell in a YEAR as many vehicles as something like the common Camry or Accord sell in a MONTH. And why, oh why, do you suppose, why on Earth have so many people bought so many trucks, SUV’s, and minivans? Stupid, ignorant, probably illiterate beasts these idiots must be, eh?
Well, damn it, THERE ARE REASONS THAT PEOPLE BUY VEHICLES THAT AREN’T AT THE BLEEDING EDGE OF AUTOMOTIVE PERFORMANCE. Oh, but TTAC says, “Screw ‘em.”
That’s what this list says. That’s very most especially what the article announcing it says. “Just go to hell, you worthless sedan droids!”
Does anyone at TTAC begin to get my point here?
There are EXCELLENT vehicles in every segment. Even the most average V6-powered family sedan has more horsepower than whole bunches of the old legendary “muscle cars,” and the new plain-jane sedans handle much better, too. Yes, we need competent performance and handling, and most vehicles these days actually offer that.
But God knows, TTAC doesn’t want to award a vehicle for comfortable, long-distance cruising. Or any ability to haul much of anything, whether it be passengers or cargo. Nope, TTAC only cares about how many kidneys it can crush with those low-low-low-profile performance tires on stiffer-than-a-rack suspensions.
Anyway, enough. I would call this a perfect exercise that provides insight into why some publications don’t just publish lame “top ten lists,” but instead attempt to recognize automotive excellence in dimensions other than simple performance.
So, do you suppose you could take those Countach posters off of your cubicle walls, and consider doing something meaningful next time? And then publish it with far less dripping condesendence? I’d rather not get so worked up next time.
August 21st, 2008 at 10:11 pm
Maxb49…
Relax.
I’ll send you one of my Zolofts!
Help me out all you The Very Brightest of TTAC out there.
.
What should I buy?
I am considering an Avalon XLS or a Lexus ES.
I am very confused about these two cars.
They both end up around 38K with what I want.
But cannot find a good comparison review.
They tell me the Avalon is larger…but the Lexus seems more luxuriuos.
I feel strange paying the same price for a Toyota as a Lexus.
Am I missing something in the two?
Confused.
August 21st, 2008 at 11:18 pm
Advice to TOYOTA.
How to best get on this list.
Promote one Game on playstation with a new platform and vehicle, and produce the car in 2011. Since the IS-F didn’t make it in the list but the GT-R did.
August 22nd, 2008 at 12:10 am
thoots :
I think you’re missing the point. First of all, the R8 is the only car on here that’s priced out of the range of the middle to upper-middle class enthusiast. Every other car on here can be bought by someone that’s not filthy rich, assuming they want to make car ownership a priority. Which, considering they are car enthusiasts makes sense. I don’t expect my mother to spend a significant % of her income on a Corvette, but I definitely don’t regret buying my C6 Vette at the age of 23 and making some concessions in other parts of my life in order to afford it. You only live once, right?
Robert did a poll a while ago and something like 25% of the people on here make over 100k a year, so none of these cars are really out of reach for a lot of the people visiting this site. I’m not in position to buy a Lambo yet, but just knowing that cars like the Murcielago are out there gives me something to work towards
I would say you’re very mistaken that 99% of the people here will never sit in any of the sports cars on the list. Anybody in the Boston area is welcome to take a ride in my Vette, and I’m sure every single person on here knows somebody with a 3-Series. That said, the rarity of certain sports/exotic cars makes me want to read more about them. Anybody can go to their local Honda/Toyota/Chevy dealership and drive a Civic/Corolla/Cobalt. Every single person in the United States knows somebody with a Corolla or Camry. These cars are so accessible, take them for a test drive yourself. Why would I want to read about those cars when I drive them constantly when I go to Hertz?
I just don’t get how a person could be into cars enough to register and post on this site, but only want to read about the most mundane cars available. I love baskeball, but I’d rather watch the Celtics and Lakers than a random pickup game at the local park, even though the pickup game might be more directly relevant to my life
August 22nd, 2008 at 12:16 am
There are EXCELLENT vehicles in every segment. Even the most average V6-powered family sedan has more horsepower than whole bunches of the old legendary “muscle cars,”
Actual performance times demonstrate how infantile this bench racing nonsense is: The high dollar exotic cars post consistent quarter mile times of twelve seconds. Good normal cars are quite capable of cutting fifteen second quarter miles. The price difference? Only about two hundred thousand dollars. Two hundred thousand dollars for three seconds. What a waste.
August 22nd, 2008 at 12:49 am
I just don’t get how a person could be into cars enough to register and post on this site, but only want to read about the most mundane cars available.
The point we’re trying to make is all things in moderation. Everyone loves the occasional article about an exotic car. I expect at least one per car magazine, however, familiarity breeds contempt. The more you see, the more you see overpriced chassis equipment. None of these cars are fit to race in the two most pressing racing scenarios: Bonneville and F1. Thus, their performance is a moot point.
August 22nd, 2008 at 1:01 am
Once again people trying to stir the pot with invective towards both the editors and the majority of the participants on this website. Yep, these cars a really out of the reach of the average middle class Joe. I truly aspire to have enough money one day to buy a Fit or maybe if I’m really rich a Mazda3 or Miata. Add today for one of the local GM dealers has a 2008 Corvette for $42k. Yep, no way I can afford that. I actually work one block from the dealer and may just go over their tomorrow on my lunch break and ask if I can take that Corvette for a spin. Because you know what I can afford it. I can. I can. I can afford a Mazda3 or a BMW thats all for me. A Fit, a Fit, that’s one that I can get. A Cadillac? Sure, what the heck! A Mini Cooper? That would be super duper!
Okay, that’s it. Hey you try to do something with G35 and MX-5. :-p
There’s already enough piss and vinegar in this world, learn to enjoy life a little.
August 22nd, 2008 at 1:19 am
thetopdog :
My thing is that I don’t find these high dollar cars to be impressive. With price as no concern, anyone can make a fast car that handles well. The inexpensive cars have to balance so many more attributes and that’s what makes them more impressive and interesting to me.
Philosophically I don’t like the idea of owning expensive depreciating toys like this. They’re fun to drive in Gran Turismo and I’d like to have a drive in each one, but my interest stops there. For the price of 3 Fits I better get something that does a hell of a lot more than just be a faster and better handling mode of transport. Flight would be nice.
August 22nd, 2008 at 6:29 am
Very strange choice on the Mazda 3 - it’s been around a long time ( and is being replaced next year ), was never really rated even when it was new, and hasn’t gone through much change in its life.
I’ve driven that European Mazda 3 Sport ( with 250+ BHP ) and thought it was alright, but nothing great. Why this car should “suddenly” be vote the best is just a mystery. There are far better cars lower down the list…
August 22nd, 2008 at 9:22 am
Nemphre : As with anything in life, there are diminishing returns. You can get a great-tasting dinner from TGIFridays, or you can spend 4-5 times as much at a nice restaurant. I’m not a food critic, so I’m much more likely to go to TGIFridays, but then again, I’m not on a food forum reading about and discussing food on a daily basis
That’s the part I still don’t get. If you’re not impressed with high-performance cars, why bother with a site like TTAC? You can learn all there is to learn about Camrys and Accords in a day of test-driving, then forget all about cars for the next 4-5 years when they’re redesigned. This is by no means a personal attack, I just honestly don’t understand the appeal of reading about/discussing cars when the most advanced and interesting (at least to me) cars are not your thing
August 22nd, 2008 at 11:10 am
Lumbergh21 I am not talking about the Evo X it is the Lancer GTS or ES.
The Mazdaspeed3 is not $12,000 I did my car shopping well before I bought my 2008 Lancer.
I did not buy the Honda,Toyota and Nissan because they are expensive with less Accessories but realibilty and durability are GREAT.
For the Mitsubishi Lancer I bought it Because I don’t have to buy aftermarket accessories like Tom Tom or Dvd player. It is all in there for a great price of $18,650
I didn’t buy the Mazda because
1. there are too many of them and I want to be Unique. driving a car that you always see on the road it makes me hide under my seat.
2. My mother and friends drive Mazda and they all complain about it. I drove a Mazda Protege and Mazda 626 and that was enough.
3. There is nothing special with the Mazda looks good and drives well. that’s it
I bought the Lancer because I drive rough and Lancer likes to be treated rough. from hitting a snow banks or sliding on black ice it can handle it. What else can you ask for a Family Sedan That was intentionally built for Rally events and real world extreme New England weather.
Try doing a 65 mph or 45 mph turn on a Mazda when you exit the Interstate and you will know what I am t