The old X’s were pretty interesting vehicles. The new ones are just plain ugly and pointless. They may as well have put a sign in the middle of each of them that says, “Put big gulp here!”

As far as the Tc goes… great car! But what would really be wrong with just calling it a Scion Celica. Heck you can put in a Scion Supra with 450+ hp, a Scion MR3 hardtop and convertible (make it look more like the 2nd generation MR2), keep the last gen Xb and offer more modifications and options, and make the Xa a direct answer to the Honda Fit. Give it a little more room than the Fit and make it a showcase for all the electronic gadgetry with a GPS, Ipod, Bluetooth, and maybe throw in a five year subscription to XM/Sirius satellite radio.

Scion would be one helluva car division with that combination. Hmmm… now that Jim Press has left Toyota maybe I should get out my rolodex for all my connections in Torrance.

Wait a sec… they all deal with Toyota repos. Never mind.

Yes.

Chevrolet = 2,265,641
GM USA 2007: down 6% (3.87 million)

BTW, Tundra missed the 200K sales target: 196,555

My xB is titled as a Toyota.

And the dealer records call it a “Toyota Wagon” It seems to me that Scions are more legitimately a sub-brand, rather than a seperate brand. Toyota will do the same thing with Prius, since there will be three Prius models in a few years.

Talk about your basic tempest in a teapot….

Since many of the so-called chevies were actually made at NUMMI (the Toyota/GM Joint venture, for the transplant-challenged), shouldn’t Chevy get half the credit for those, and Toyota half the credit?

GM…show some class….when Toyota blows by you in the sales race, you can either argue incessantly about the arcane minuteia of how the numbers were compiled, or gracefully acknowledge the accomplishment of your competitor and vow to regain the crown in the future. Whining is for children. These guys fighting about the silly details about how the counts are made remind me of democrats from a certain southwestern state fighting over certain ballots with hanging chads during a certain recent presidential election.

Please get over it.

Most of the ‘PR’ folks in this industry will spin things to the point where a vehicle from Mediocristan is considered to be the holy grail.

I remember when the Ford Five Hundred first came to one of the sales. The Ford rep was gushing about this and that for what seemed like an eternity. Finally someone told him to simmer down in a way that only a hardcore member of the auto industry could articulate. Good times…

Since GM is marketing Pontiac-Buick-GMC together these days you would also make a good argument for lumping them all together as well, but it isn’t as strong as the argument for Toyota including Scion in the Toyota sales totals.

Maybe Toyota should ignore the whole thing and just quote sales per dealership numbers, in which case all three of the 2.8 get skunked so badly it’s embarrassing.

Also, GEO RIP 1997 rather than 1977

Score it for GM, Toyota, and Ford. Fold in pontiac, buick, scion, mercury, etc.

In VA, I’m pretty sure Scions are registered as Toyotas, but my guess is this can vary from state to state.

All of this will be academic in 2008, when Toyota sans Scion passes Chevy.

Total vehicle sales as of the end of November

GM: 3,502,774
Toyota Motor Sales: 2,396,425
Ford Motor Company: 2,348,278
Chrysler LLC: 1,885,227
American Honda: 1,419,750

December’s figures are supposed to be released today.

z31:
edit: Why do I remember crap like this?

You’ll do really well when RF gets enough money to run the upcoming TTAC Jeopardy tournament!

I’m surprised about the Lexus & Toyota separation though. Is Cadillac separate from Chevy then?

z31: I remember that crap too. Unfortunately after moving to Manhattan many years ago, I sold my Miata in favor of a cheap beater; a bright-yellow Geo Storm. Well, I was storming a month later when the all-aluminum engine block fused together after driving home one weekend on the Turnpike because the thermostat failed…

That would be a better comparo because then it would really define who made the more desirable vehicles. The General has so many models that are just rebadged, it would show if the re-packaging effort actually worked, or if it just cannibalized the re-badged brand.

The badge on the hood was the ‘O’ (globe thing), and it had a bowtie in the center.

http://gtkgeo.50megs.com/images/geo_badge.jpg

edit: Why do I remember crap like this?

I don’t know why Toyota want this title so badly that they’re willing to use ropy logic to get there. Don’t we chastise Detroit for such practices? Toyota should go back to the beginning.

Build a car that people want to buy and titles like “World’s biggest car marker (by volume)” and “The United States’ best selling brand” will follow.

Do the final rankings change for retail customer only sales versus combined fleet and retail sales?

Mr Rhadigan needs to go back and get his facts straight. Geo was marketed as a separate brand, sold through Chevy dealerships, much like they tried to sell the Opel brand in Buick dealerships. Geo had its own emblem, a stylized globe, shown here as the “o” in “Geo.” It wasn’t until GM decided to dump the Geo name in favor of the Chevy name in 1997 that the cars wore the bow tie.

And if Toyota is going to count Scion sales under Toyota because they’re sold at the same dealership, GM should get to combine Pontiac, Buick and GMC sales.

http://www.synlube.com/Logos/Geo_Logo.jpg

Only after Geo went defunct and all the remaining Geo vehicles were rebranded as Chevys did they start wearing the Chevy logo. I think the Geo argument is the nail in this coffin.