Comments on: Toyota Developing RWD Hybrid Coupe

By: tedward

tedward — Thu, 19 Mar 2009 21:50:56 +0000

It just struck me…Toyota may just be aiming for the Mitsubishi Eclipse buyers (no, not the guys who bought the 4wd turbo). If that’s the case then RWD is an unnecessary yet welcome addition and a mildly tweaked Prius drivetrain will slip by unnoticed. Most of them probably have never heard the acronym CVT, that’ll slip by too. As a (very) lazy GT I suppose it might work.

All I know is that this thing will likely get butchered by the real RWD talent with a Prius drivetrain (and the inevitable Toyota steering/suspension). They must have something else in mind.

By: imag

imag — Thu, 19 Mar 2009 17:42:35 +0000

Here’s the question: Did people refrain from buying the S2000 or the last MR2 in droves because the gas mileage was poor?

My guess is that they didn’t buy those cars because they were obsessed with buying even poorer mpg SUVs at the time. They wanted bigger cars. Now, when people are starting to want smaller cars, Honda and Toyota are talking about adding weight and cost to the small cars by making them hybrids. That makes no sense.

My guess is that in two years, an MR2 similar to the AW11 would sell very well. It doesn’t need to be 50 mpg, but 30 would do nicely, and would be achievable with light weight and a smart motor (like the original).

Please, Toyota and Honda, don’t make this mistake. People who buy small 2-seaters are not eminently practical. I’m not saying the track/autocross market, the tuner market, or the “mid-life crisis” markets are huge on their own, but those markets together have treated the Miata pretty well (and my guess is they would do more if the NC Miata didn’t look so ridiculous).

*sigh*

By: Landcrusher

Landcrusher — Thu, 19 Mar 2009 16:14:31 +0000

Jerome,
I once sold a model of airplane that was in almost every way superior to it’s competitor. There were a couple kind of people I learned would never buy it. First, there were people who would, for various reasons, search for the one or two things that were different, or in which it could not beat the competition, and then proclaim our far superior product a dud (most of these guys weren’t real buyers to start with, and the few that were often later admitted their regrets for buying the other plane). And then there were the few folks for whom the other product actually was the better product because of their specific tastes or needs (I usually figured these guys out quickly, and kept everything friendly so I could get a chance to sell them their next plane because needs change).
I don’t know which one you are, but I can tell you that there are reasons why one might prefer a turntable to a CD player. That doesn’t make the CD player worthless.
There is no free lunch. Therefore, there is always a compromise with a different design. I suspect spirited driving on rural roads is something you value highly, so I would say this car is not for you. Still, that doesn’t mean it’s a dud. There are a lot of people who rarely, if ever, go for drives like you do, but who still will buy a car which adds a little fun going from A to B.

By: tedward

tedward — Thu, 19 Mar 2009 14:27:04 +0000

“And I’ve always wondered, when you’re runnin through the hills, all out, what happens when the battery runs out of juice? Fun will end real quick…”

Not arguing with this statement, b/c that’s exactly what the Prius does at the moment. I am curious as to how they’ll set this up though. If Toyota pairs the electric motor to a large turbo/small displacement engine, and then uses it to provide low rpm torque it could be an interesting alternative to VW’s twincharger setup or really any twin-scroll turbo. Of course, it’ll probably be the heaviest of all these solutions, but it could still be fun. Also, when you run out of charge you would still have a bit of (very laggy) turbo torque up top to play with, which does have its own charm. I’m not at all sure what that would do to the 50mpg target.

Oh yeah, and without a manual transmission they probably shouldn’t even bother.

By: Jerome10

Jerome10 — Thu, 19 Mar 2009 05:35:15 +0000

Landcrusher-
I dont’ know about you, but for 28K in a “performance” car, I want a little more performance.

Otherwise you can get about as much performance for a lot less. The 50MPG doesn’t really make up for it.

And I’ve always wondered, when you’re runnin through the hills, all out, what happens when the battery runs out of juice? Fun will end real quick…

By: Landcrusher

Landcrusher — Thu, 19 Mar 2009 02:37:29 +0000

Actually, green with fun could sell well. The greenies will like it, and so will the thrifty. It will give us cheap bastards an excuse to buy one too.

By: Robert Farago

Robert Farago — Thu, 19 Mar 2009 02:03:32 +0000

guyincognito

Ooh! Ooh! I do! I do!

By: guyincognito

guyincognito — Thu, 19 Mar 2009 01:51:39 +0000

Why? Anyone remember the hybrid performance version of the Honda Accord?….Exactly.

By: Edmond Dantes

Edmond Dantes — Thu, 19 Mar 2009 01:13:08 +0000

Something like this could get me into a Toyota. Maybe. Very maybe. It’ll never happen, though. And if it does, it’ll drive like a Camry. I would very much love to be proved wrong.

By: John Horner

John Horner — Thu, 19 Mar 2009 00:06:20 +0000

As emissions and safety regulations kicked in during the 1970s we saw a raft of really horrible cars and trucks thrust upon the marketplace. The automakers seemed hell-bent on proving their point that regulation meant radically worse vehicles. But then, something magic happened. The industry used new technologies and advanced engineering efforts to make a big leap forward in comfort, efficiency, safety, handling and horsepower simulatenously. By the mid to late 1990s, automotive technology had fully adapted to the tighter regulatory landscape and vehicles were arguably better in most objective measures than they were in the 1960s. A garden variety bone stock 2009 Chevy Malibu puts its 1969 namesake to shame on both the racetrack and the street.

Perhaps we are at the beginning of another such era where tougher fuel economy and emissions standards are at first met with compromised versions of old designs … but then are replaced with clever implemenations of new technology which gives us another step function improvement in the art and science of building personal transportation.

By: Steven Lang

Steven Lang — Wed, 18 Mar 2009 23:54:09 +0000

It doesn’t really matter.

Toyota just wants to sell their next-gen coupe to people who want to be at the cutting edge of proper political correctness.

I wonder how many owners are going to flip the ‘Td’ moniker to ‘Tp’

By the way marketing folks, it’s 2009 and more people still know what a Celica, Integra, and Supra are than a Tc, RSX, or IS.

Toyota already has the brand equity for sport(y) cars. They just don’t know how to spend it to save their ass from first base.

By: N8iveVA

N8iveVA — Wed, 18 Mar 2009 23:23:47 +0000

the Prius hits 60 mph in 10 whatever seconds and doesn’t get 50 “real world” miles per gallon, so where is this magic hybrid technology that’ll get this car to 60 mph in 7 seconds and get 50mpg?

By: Strippo

Strippo — Wed, 18 Mar 2009 22:52:31 +0000

“A new MR2 would be a desirable addition to the range, but Toyota is concentrating more on family hybrids at the moment, with 10 being launched over the next 12 months.”

Whatever. The Volt will still dominate the $40,000 hybrid mid-size family sedan segment.

By: meefer

meefer — Wed, 18 Mar 2009 22:42:24 +0000

If they do build it, it’s their only hope of keeping me me in Toyota/Lexus family.

By: Seth L

Seth L — Wed, 18 Mar 2009 21:00:58 +0000

All the vaporware comments are quite apt. I’ll beleive this, and the Supra/Lexus fancy coupe, and whatever Honda says they’re cooking, when I see them.

But dude, if they style it like the Volta concept from 2004, I’d trade my Cooper S.

By: Edward Niedermeyer

Edward Niedermeyer — Wed, 18 Mar 2009 20:57:02 +0000

Re: the vaporwear comments: Yeah, it’s just Toyota. What do they know about hybrid drivetrains? And hey, if you happen to accept the inevitability of lowering fuel consumption, better an RWD coupe than a Prius, no?

Given the whole Toyobaru fandango though, I’m not holding my breath.

By: EricTheOracle

EricTheOracle — Wed, 18 Mar 2009 20:34:19 +0000

But I don’t want a hybrid.

By: no_slushbox

no_slushbox — Wed, 18 Mar 2009 20:33:57 +0000

Toyota now has two imaginary sports cars. The hybrid is particularly exciting since Toyota has never made a manual transmission hybrid, and probably won’t start now.

In other news, the Hyundai Genesis Coupe, which you can actually buy, is more powerful than Hyundai claims.

By: Jerome10

Jerome10 — Wed, 18 Mar 2009 20:29:39 +0000

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

By: Vorenus

Vorenus — Wed, 18 Mar 2009 20:06:35 +0000

“It has to be fun to drive, too, which means the hybrid set-up must be different to the Prius’s, with greater responsiveness.”

I read this as “I work for Toyota, but am nonetheless openly admitting that the Prius is the opposite of fun.”

By: tedward

tedward — Wed, 18 Mar 2009 19:56:34 +0000

About damn time. I’ll go ahead and confidently predict that a sporty hybrid is gonna be a little on the hefty side (wonder how they’ll handle the inevitable 370z comparisons?). I’m not sure if that’ll be a problem though considering the obvious vaporware competition is the VW diesel coupe. Who’s gonna have the weight distribution advantage?

This has to mean that the real sports car version (ICE only) has gotten the green light. Good news, just so long as they don’t neuter it to keep the shine on the hybrid model.

By: BobJava

BobJava — Wed, 18 Mar 2009 19:40:29 +0000

Uh … how big is the two-seater market? Not big.

How big is the non-luxury two-seater market? Even smaller.

Hybrid market is shrinking. “Performance” hybrid market is virtually non-existent.

How would this be economically feasible? If the Toyota-Subaru RWD project is on hold and this is moving forward, they’ve lost their minds.

I’ll believe it when I see it. Hardly anyone buys two-seaters (ironic because everyone shells out more for “four-seaters” that only have two real seats).

By: grog

grog — Wed, 18 Mar 2009 19:26:22 +0000

If this were an IT product, it would have a label:

Vaporware.

Gotta admit, something like this would be a great commuter car for me, particularly if it can hit 50mpg highway.

By: MidLifeCelica

MidLifeCelica — Wed, 18 Mar 2009 19:19:43 +0000

Wow, with so many great rumored cars on the market, it’s tough to choose which one I want the most. I’ll have to to look at getting some imaginary financing after I take them all for a virtual test drive! Since when has car manufacturing been about who can use PhotoShop the best? Design it, build it, THEN we’ll talk about whether I’ll buy it.

By: mehow

mehow — Wed, 18 Mar 2009 19:08:19 +0000

“…as it will be easier to sell if it is affordable.”

ground breaking idea right there, that’s why he makes the big bucks.