It will be an uphill battle to persuade me; I know people with both kinds of vans and the Honda owners aren’t the ones who are hopping mad.

And dropping the ball on non-warranty repairs is an intrinsic part of the story. Who said, “we’ll make this right,” and followed through?

From Edmunds:

One negative aspect of the fourth-generation Town & Country model was its inconsistent reliability. Chrysler responded to concerns about long-term durability in 2002 by instituting a seven-year/70,000-mile powertrain warranty; however, this was rolled back to three-year/36,000-mile coverage in 2006.

Their reports on the reliability of all previous generations were equally bad or worse.

Regarding Edmunds own long term tests
For the first seven months of 2002, this is what has gone wrong with of our 2001 DGC: 1) The driver and front-passenger windows stopped working; 2) there was a recall to reprogram the power controller for the rear climate control; 3) the front suspension became loose and the front struts had to be replaced; and 4) the air conditioning stopped working.

Consumer Reports also has never recommended a Chrysler minivan for reliability.

I have no dog in this fight, but that’s what I see from major unbiased sources.

The story was picked up by the major news outlets when Consumer Reports gave the vans a “not reccomended” rating because of the failures. Even Lee himself tried to do damage control with statements to the media, but handled it badly in my opinion. Chrysler to their credit waived the normal $100 deductible on the 7/70 powertrain warranty and paid expenses for anyone stranded far from home. But they dropped the ball for those out of warranty, like Toyota did with their engines until the class action suit made them deal with their customers.

Now it’s reached mythic proportions. Like jokes (or serious statements) of Fords exploding. Or Audi unintended acceleration. Even among enthusiasts such as ourselves these persist. Tell someone you are thinking of buying a NEW Ford Explorer and they might ask you – aren’t you worried about it rolling over?

The truth is (and this about the truth right?) that the numbers were never what they seemed to be due to the media coverage. The failure rate of the trannys was 17 – 18% – waaaay to high – but only 1 or 2 in 10 were failing. I have still met people to this day who think that EVERY new one (now several generations removed from the original) will fail before 100K. Not every Pinto exploded when hit in the rear either. A lot of folks are driving Toyotas with that particular engine and model year and have never had a problem with sludge. And they couldn’t even get those GM pickups on that Dateline episode to catch fire in an intentional crash – until they got a little help from the pyrotechnics crew.

I’m not defending the above companies or vehicles just pointing out the power of perception and reputation.

Also, VW should have asked Toyota or Honda to partner in the minivan not Chrysler.

Chrysler=cheap, low quality, unsophisticated.

If this is the future of VW of America they will never come close to Toyota sales figures.

BTW, VW where the hell is the Tigan CUV?
They are already years behind Toyota, Honda, Nissan, etc.. in the CUV availability.

Not in any paper I read. I found out about it because I knew a couple people who had to buy new transmissions on relatively low-mile vans.

windswords: “The Honda, not so much, as a matter of fact I bet most normal people (non TTAC readers) don’t even know about it.”

You might lose that bet. I know Honda had some transmsission trouble and I found out the same way I found out about the Chrysler transmission problem; a friend’s ‘99 Honda Odyssey transmission started to slip, so he took it in for a check (here’s where the stories diverge slightly) well out of warranty at 97K miles and Honda gave him a loaner car and replaced it right away at no cost.

As happy as I am with my Toyotas, I was mightily impressed with that and Honda’s now on my short list.

Oh, the friend with the bad Honda transmission? He bought two transmissions for his Chrysler van by 130K miles. By and by, he decided the Chrysler van was a losing proposition (something else spendy went wrong) and he replaced it with an Accord.

That said, I still find myself pining for a Jetta TDI Sportwagen. Sad, I know…

I had 1990 Lebaron vert. Lost the tranny too. But since I have had a 94 G Caravan, 97 Stratus, and an 03 Durango. No issues – not just the tranny but anything else as well.

whatdoiknow1,

what you said is partially true, but the real culprit is the amount of media coverage. The tranny issue with Chrysler was front page news. The Honda, not so much, as a matter of fact I bet most normal people (non TTAC readers) don’t even know about it. The last time I looked at True Delta, the Dodge Caliber had less problems than the Honda Civic, and this was for the new model, not the last generation. This was a straight model year to model year comparo for the most recent year. Maybe this has changed in the last few months. Maybe not. But Chrysler reliability has been better than VW’s historically although their quality has not. Hell, Chrysler was more reliable than Mercedes when they owned it.

Reputation and History.
One company has a good reputation and a history of making fine products and the other has a VERY LONG history of making garbage and a justified reputation as a crappy automaker.
As far as I know Honda has had one transmission in recent years that was prone to failure. I also understand that Honda did stand by its product and made its costumers whole with hassle-free repairs and replacements.
On the other hand Chysler has a history that extends all long as the company has been in existance of making and selling all kinds of sub-par components and whole vehicles.

When and IF Chysler somehow manages to rise its quality to the level of Honda than maybe one day Chysler too can get a “free-pass” for a mistake.
Until than Chysler is considered one of the “Usual Suspects” and can expect to be called out for its continuious string of poor quality products.

Your about 15 years late with the charge of unreliability for Chrysler automatics. Both the 42TE and the 62TE are as reliable trannys as you’ll find in any make. Certainly their electronic components are more reliable than VW’s.

It’s funny how Honda had the same problem but I never hear anyone say “it’s a Honda, the tranny will fail anytime now”.

However, due to the overwhelming awesomeness of the Microbus concept, the Routan is truly, deeply tragic.

The new VW mininvan has….um, a bench seat, a regular seat and restyled headlights. Ahhh, did I mention cup holders? Welcome to the 1980s. Plus all of the wonderful history of the flaming wrecks that Chrysler made as a mechanical underpinning.

So….assuming that I trust again Chrysler to make something that won’t loose it’s transmission every 50,000 miles, like their old minivans, and the Le Baron convertable….would I choose the VW version which has seats or the Chrysler version which has more innovation, utility, and flexibility. And if I really wanted something that was a boring people mover type van, why wouldn’t I choose a Honda or Toyota van and at least have reliability?

But let’s look to the future of this baby step:

If they continue collaborating *AND IF* (yeah I know) they do it right –

Future joint products could have the reliability of Chrysler electronics. For VW, that would be an *immense* improvement. VW could design suspension systems. For Chrysler, that would be an *immense* improvement.

The future could hold a van (or other vehicle)with VW interior, VW exterior, Chrylser electronics, Chrysler gas engines (Phoenix & DSG) and VW diesels and VW handling. *IF* done right, this could lead to some good things. If Chrylser learns something from VW exterior and interior design that would be a good thing. IF VW dealers learn about customer service from Chrysler dealers that would be a good thing.

Ok, once again we have a product that no one was asking for, in the USA at least. Who came up with the bright idea to combine the forces of the automaker known for the cheapest products being built with the automaker known for the most unreliable automobiles for sale in the USA market today?

Now dont let this picture fool you this VW minivan looks just like every other Chysler minivan but with a different front-end. The interior look very cheap and inexpensive looking (not very VW). If I am correct this thing is fitted with a Chysler engine.
I one simple move VW has created a vehicle that violates that last good quality the brand has, nice materials and good fit and finsh.

I think Americans were looking for VW to create an German Honda Odyessy alternative, and we were willing to pay for it. I dont think anyone was looking for an cheap “affordable” VW we could have just brought the damn Chysler for that!

If you were wearing pants, you might still end up with gunk on your butt. No good.

However, in terms of interior room and flexibility, it was a great design.

Fast-forward a few years to the EuroVan. Tons of room inside! We could get all 6 of us inside with camping equipment, ice chest where it would be handy en route, clothing for a fancy party, etc, and still space to spare. You could fold down the seats (not remove, just fold down) and slide a BIG sofa in.

And, it had fahrvergneugen. It had really nice road feel.

However, VW found that it wouldn’t sell and we were, eventually, not particularly happy with the purchase:

- Noisy. Lots of wind and road noise. 3K rpm at 55 mph also ensured lots of mechanical noise.
- Inadequate power. 109 hp? For 2 tons plus load? Are you nuts?
- Only the front two seats reclined at all. If you bought the weekender with rear-facing seats, nobody could recline. Nobody could snooze on trips. However, the driver’s seat was EXTREMELY comfortable for extended drives.
- To remove the rearmost seat bench required a WRENCH. And, since the underside of the bolts were exposed below the vehicle, it required a BIG WRENCH. And then a lot of fiddling with the carpet.
- Unreliable. Our brakes failed. It appeared to suffer from piston slap and we sold it when my mechanic (whom we used to visit often) said there were unpleasant noises from above and below.
- When the brakes worked, they were inadequate.

Overall, the few redeeming qualities the thing had (awesome interior room and very comfortable driver’s seat) were overwhelmed by the many things that made it difficult to live with.

Our two annual vacations were always in that machine. In winter we would load the kids in, and the luggage and skis onto the Yakima rack up top, lay down the bed in the back, throw in a cooler between the seats and drive 24 hours straight from Seattle to central Colorado where my parents live at the base of a ski hill. “Hi Mom, here’s the grandkids, see ya later!” ;) The other trip was a summer wander all over the West, either US, Canada or both. That Vanagon was the cheapest and most utilitarian funtcional RV ever built. No, it wasn’t a Westphalia camper, but the 2-2-table-3 seating arrangement was fantastic, and terrifically functional for hauling kids. The passenger (myself or my wife) could stand up and walk to the backseat ferchrissakes! The kids could sit facing each other, even strapped into those damn car seats, and be engaged in sibling rivalry yet be out of fist range!

My only complaint was thedesign of the fold-up cupholdeers, they were all destroyed within a year of buying the thing. So were all the replacements. Just a bad design.

The tightest turning circle of any car I’ve ever owned. Very easy to maintain and self-service (important for this home mechanic!) Fun to drive in it’s own looney sort of way. You could park it anywhere as the footprint of the thing was in reality about the same as a Jetta, but with that big sliding door and the fact that the front seat riders can easily walk back to it meant that door clearance was never an issue.

I sold that Vanagon when I was transferred overseas in early 1997. I wish I hadn’t.

It is a shame that 50 years of design and refinement were abandoned by VW. The Vanagon was essentially the apogee of the original VW Bulli/Combi Bus, just with the “wasserboxer” engine in the end. Literally. Nobody thought outside the van shaped box like VW. Their products were always offbeat and unique.

To badge-engineer something from Chrysler is an insult. Though I agree with others and say that at least they’ve tarted it up beyond its ugly start. The problem with most “minivans” is that they are just station wagons with a sliding door. They are NOT vans. They lack the utility of a van. They lack the room to maneuver INSIDE that a van gives you. VW vans have a long history of being second homes on wheels and nothing from Chyrerberus is going to get that job done.

We’ve all been waiting for that New Bus to complement the New Beetle, and VW craps out THIS TURD?? Whisky Tango Foxtrot?

–chuck
http://chuck.goolsbee.org

Count me among those who don’t understand why they didn’t run with the M’bus concept. I would have had a hard time holding onto my money if that had come out, and I certainly don’t need a van.